Hashim Amla - alcohol, riba or double standards?

[TahirFan]

In a lively Cape Town radio station, listeners were asked if they thought Hashim Amla is guilty of double standards. Amla refuses to wear the logo of the Proteas Test team sponsors because the sponsorship happens to be an alcoholic company.

However Hashim Amla wears the logo of the Proteas ODI sponsor Standard Bank. Standard Bank that charges 28% compounded interest on some of its loan. This is clearly riba

Some listeners argued that because Standard Bank also has a sharia based Islamic banking department that its ok to wear its logo

Others said in that case Amla should wear the bear logo from Castle because they also make non alcoholic bear

Is this double standards or not. Whats your verdict

 

[Rayyman]

Some modern scholars allow things like interest, because it might be necessary for some people to live like that.

But, then again, you always see these damn Haram police trying to call out each and every flaw that they see through their perceptions.

SA is a secular country, so anybody associated with SA should adopt a mindset pertaining to freedom of religion.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Castle Brau should refuse to sponsor the Proteas unless every member of the team agrees to wear their logo. SA could then justifiably drop Amla from the team. Discussion over.

 

[Rayyman]

Castle Brau should refuse to sponsor the Proteas unless every member of the team agrees to wear their logo. SA could then justifiably drop Amla from the team. Discussion over.

LOl.

SA could easily get another sponsor.

 

[Adil_94]

when it comes to banking. Islamic banking is a scam compared to your average bank and that saying something. My cousin is very religious and hes trying to buy a house in the U.K using Islamic Banking and it works out in paying more than using a normal bank they dont call it interest but they end up charging you more.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

LOl.

SA could easily get another sponsor.

In which case, who cares about this useless debate?

 

[TahirFan]

LOl.

SA could easily get another sponsor.

No. South Africa cannot get another sponsor that easily because cricket in South Africa is embroiled in a match-fixing scandal .

RAM did not renew its contract for the 20 over tournament and cricket South Africa could not find another sponsor. Fixing is just as rampant in South Africa as it is in Pakistan

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RAM took over the domestic T20 tournament sponsorship in the 2012-13 season with a three-year deal. Last year, the company extended it for an additional summer. In that time, several innovations were brought into the tournament, including offering prize money for crowd catches, international signings and broadcasting matches to foreign markets.


However, the tournament was embroiled in a match-fixing scandal last summer. News of possible irregularities first broke in November when CSA said it had learned of an international syndicate trying to corrupt domestic cricket and warned players of vigilance. In December, the South African board confirmed it had charged an intermediary for "contriving to fix, or otherwise improperly influence aspects" of the Ram Slam T20 competition.


By the end of 2015, CSA charged Gulam Bodi with several counts of breaching the anti-corruption code. On January 25, he received a 20-year ban.


At the time, RAM's executive director Alan da Costa confirmed to Sport 24 that the company was reconsidering its association with the tournament. "No one ever wants their brand associated with any dishonest activities and we are seriously considering the outcome of the matter before renewing our sponsorship," da Costa said.


In August 2016, four other players - Thami Tsolekile, Ethy Mbhalati, Jean Symes and Pumelela Matshikwe - received bans of between seven and 12 years for their involvement in the scandal. CSA said it had no evidence to suggest a fix was carried out but that "material discussions about match-fixing" took place. The investigation is still underway.

 

[bleaf27]

Why do we need to mix religion into everything ?

 

[JaDed]

Why do we need to mix religion into everything ?

Its just about belief here,any vegetarian player would find it weird to have KFC symbol on similar Amla's choice here if he wants or not to keep a logo.

 

[Yossarian]

I pay interest on my house mortgage. But I don't allow alcohol into my house. My employer sends Xmas hampers to employees homes at Christmas, usually containing a bottle each of expensive Champagne and wine, along with boxes of chocolates, cakes and biscuits (cookies). Since I have to sign for receipt of the delivery, I take the Champage and wine bottles out of the hamper (whilst the hamper is still outside the house) and give one each to my neighbours.

So yes, I'm dealing in double standards.

 

[Musakhel]

It is double standards Riba is a much greater sin than consuming alcohol, it is one of the 7 major sins which puts people into the hellfire.

Also the poster who mentioned Islamic mortgage It is true it is a scam and no different to ripping someone off, so yh it is haram.

 

[Yossarian]

It is double standards Riba is a much greater sin than consuming alcohol, it is one of the 7 major sins which puts people into the hellfire.

Maybe not for Amla. In fact not for the vast majority of Muslims.

The vast majority of Muslims in the world, including 'devout Muslims', who have bank accounts, credit cards, and/or mortgages and/or cars, bikes, washing machines etc. purchased on credit, pay and/or receive interest to some extent. Whilst the vast majority of Muslims do not drink alcohol.

ie Going by above, most Muslims do not believe that paying/receiving interest is a greater sin than drinking alcohol.

 

[Justcrazy]

when it comes to banking. Islamic banking is a scam compared to your average bank and that saying something. My cousin is very religious and hes trying to buy a house in the U.K using Islamic Banking and it works out in paying more than using a normal bank they dont call it interest but they end up charging you more.

They do not follow Islamic rules I think , they just try to fool people.

 

[Justcrazy]

It is double standards Riba is a much greater sin than consuming alcohol, it is one of the 7 major sins which puts people into the hellfire.

Also the poster who mentioned Islamic mortgage It is true it is a scam and no different to ripping someone off, so yh it is haram.

You are right , alcohol is nothing compared to Riba as far as gravity of sins is concerned.

 

[Musakhel]

Maybe not for Amla. In fact not for the vast majority of Muslims.

The vast majority of Muslims in the world, including 'devout Muslims', who have bank accounts, credit cards, and/or mortgages and/or cars, bikes, washing machines etc. purchased on credit, pay and/or receive interest to some extent. Whilst the vast majority of Muslims do not drink alcohol.

ie Going by above, most Muslims do not believe that paying/receiving interest is a greater sin than drinking alcohol.

Narrated by Ibn Isa, and recorded in Abu-Dawood Hadith #3325
“There will come a time when you will not be able to find a single person in the world who will not be consuming riba. And if anyone claims that he is not consuming riba then surely the dust of riba will reach him.”

Just As Rasulullah(saw) Said but that does not justify blatant consumption of riba.

 

[Justcrazy]

Maybe not for Amla. In fact not for the vast majority of Muslims.

The vast majority of Muslims in the world, including 'devout Muslims', who have bank accounts, credit cards, and/or mortgages and/or cars, bikes, washing machines etc. purchased on credit, pay and/or receive interest to some extent. Whilst the vast majority of Muslims do not drink alcohol.

ie Going by above, most Muslims do not believe that paying/receiving interest is a greater sin than drinking alcohol.

It was in a hadeeth that a time will come when everyone will be influenced by Riba , we simply cannot avoid it all times.

But at the same time if we are forced , we must consider it haram at least . Islam without khilafat cannot be practiced in true form. After khulafa E Rashid for 30 years , right from Muawiyah onwards to present monarchs , all were Muslims , but Islam had taken backstage . It had become Kingship , state and religion were separated.

 

[Yossarian]

Narrated by Ibn Isa, and recorded in Abu-Dawood Hadith #3325
“There will come a time when you will not be able to find a single person in the world who will not be consuming riba. And if anyone claims that he is not consuming riba then surely the dust of riba will reach him.”

Just As Rasulullah(saw) Said but that does not justify blatant consumption of riba.

Narrated by Ibn Isa, and recorded in Abu-Dawood Hadith #3325
“There will come a time when you will not be able to find a single person in the world who will not be consuming riba. And if anyone claims that he is not consuming riba then surely the dust of riba will reach him.”

Just As Rasulullah(saw) Said but that does not justify blatant consumption of riba.

Typical. When you can't repudiate a point of discussion with a meaningful counter argument then resort to quoting hadith.

No wonder someone like myself (who was once a very devout Muslim) is now having severe doubts about the veracity of religion per se.

 

[Musakhel]

Typical. When you can't repudiate a point of discussion with a meaningful counter argument then resort to quoting hadith.

No wonder someone like myself (who was once a very devout Muslim) is now having severe doubts about the veracity of religion per se.

Lol You seem agitated by my post I'm not interested in offering you counterarguments I wasn't even arguing with you in the first place, is that meant to be some emotional blackmail the last line?

 

[Adil_94]

The whole point of Islamic opposition to Riba was that it was used to rip off the poor who charged extortionate rates much like loansharks and the likes of WONGA. com. Banks today will only give you a mortgage if you have the financial capability to do so and they have a high degree of confidence you wont default on the loans. So in that aspect todays interest based system on mortgages is very different to that in ancient times. The financial system.during the early islamic period was very primitive when compared to the transnational global economic system we have now.

 

[Varun]

Wow that sounds uber-niche.

Amla probably never even knew about this, cut the guy some slack.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

The whole point of Islamic opposition to Riba was that it was used to rip off the poor who charged extortionate rates much like loansharks and the likes of WONGA. com. Banks today will only give you a mortgage if you have the financial capability to do so and they have a high degree of confidence you wont default on the loans. So in that aspect todays interest based system on mortgages is very different to that in ancient times. The financial system.during the early islamic period was very primitive when compared to the transnational global economic system we have now.

Very good points and a good argument against the fallacies of seeing everything in black and white.

 

[Slog]

when it comes to banking. Islamic banking is a scam compared to your average bank and that saying something. My cousin is very religious and hes trying to buy a house in the U.K using Islamic Banking and it works out in paying more than using a normal bank they dont call it interest but they end up charging you more.

everyone knows that you end up paying more with islamic banking route

in any case the rates are closely tied to the prevailing interest rates and hence the benchmark is based on the haram number so theres that...

 

[Slog]

Maybe not for Amla. In fact not for the vast majority of Muslims.

The vast majority of Muslims in the world, including 'devout Muslims', who have bank accounts, credit cards, and/or mortgages and/or cars, bikes, washing machines etc. purchased on credit, pay and/or receive interest to some extent. Whilst the vast majority of Muslims do not drink alcohol.

ie Going by above, most Muslims do not believe that paying/receiving interest is a greater sin than drinking alcohol.

well in Islam its not the Muslims who decide what is a greater sin

They are just choosing convenience. It requires less effort to avoid pork and alcohol and much more to avoid interest

Riba is without doubt the greater sin,

 

[Slog]

Typical. When you can't repudiate a point of discussion with a meaningful counter argument then resort to quoting hadith.

No wonder someone like myself (who was once a very devout Muslim) is now having severe doubts about the veracity of religion per se.

The problem is that in Islam there is no room for debate on such things.

Its not as per anyone's wishes

 

[Asim2Good]

Don't think that's double standard.
Because you can use other bank services WITHOUT going for interest.
You can deposit your own savings n tell bank you don't interest on your savings.
You can use bank services for all kind of money transfers (personal or business) which ll be completely WITH IN teachings of Islam.

But thats not case with Alcohol. Consumption of Alcohol is NOT allowed in Islam.
Alcohol is used in medicines and it's allowed in that form and I am pretty sure Amlais taking those medicines too when needed.

If we keep thinking this way and question everything like that then we ll not be able to live. Like Amla's salary is haraam because CSA is taking interest from banks.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

# I Support Hashim Amla.


Interest/Sood/Ribba/it's other types are part of every banking system present on Plannet Earth. There is Zero Choice. Hashim might have a bank account aswell where his money resides with a Bank which operates as per Soodi/Riba Nizaam.


Hashim has no option. He cannot keep his savings at his home.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

The problem is that in Islam there is no room for debate on such things.

Its not as per anyone's wishes

There is room. Extremists, Radicals, Fanatics will say that you cannot debate. No religion is barred from Criticism/Questioning. And everyone is free to chose his path.

 

[MenInG]

Very interesting.

But as a scholar once said. If you work for any organization which earns or charges interest, then BURN the % of cash (salary) that conforms to that number.

Just check the line on the balance sheet of any company which mentions Interest...

 

[Rayyman]

There is room. Extremists, Radicals, Fanatics will say that you cannot debate. No religion is barred from Criticism/Questioning. And everyone is free to chose his path.

Very true, the Ulema used to discuss these topics all of the time during the Golden Age.

Without communication, there can be no growth.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

Very interesting.

But as a scholar once said. If you work for any organization which earns or charges interest, then BURN the % of cash (salary) that conforms to that number.

Just check the line on the balance sheet of any company which mentions Interest...

Interesting.


Is there is formula or methology by which Hashim Amla can calculate % of Riba/Interest in the Salary and match fees he gets ?

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

Very true, the Ulema used to discuss these topics all of the time during the Golden Age.

Without communication, there can be no growth.

JazaakAllah for the agreement. Stay blessed.

 

[srh]

Castle Brau should refuse to sponsor the Proteas unless every member of the team agrees to wear their logo. SA could then justifiably drop Amla from the team. Discussion over.

exactly. If a business is sponsoring a team then every team member should wear its logo on his shirt whether they like it or not. Just wearing a company logo does not mean you are supporting the business practices of that business; you are only supporting your team. this is common sense.

 

[Yossarian]

The problem is that in Islam there is no room for debate on such things.

Its not as per anyone's wishes

And therein lies the problem.

Religion was a means for the learned (or those with greater knowledge/experience) to educate the uneducated masses regarding healthy living along with forming and living in a society that works, avoids conflict and internal strife.

Since it would be difficult, or cumbersome, to inform the uneducated/ignorant masses as to the practical reasons why they should follow the steps that resulted in the above (eg slaughtering via halal methods to remove the blood whilst the heart is still pumping, thereby removing most of the diseases carried by the animal, especially in a hot desert climate of Arabia 1500 years ago - or longer in the case of jews & kosher), it was easier to simply say that it was "God's commandment".

In fact, the same process is at play today, and is used by both religious leaders ("don't question, God knows best!") as well as politicians and military leaders ("If you question it, then you're not patriotic").

 

[TahirFan]

Omar Henry became the first non white and the first muslim to play for South Africa.

Unlike Amla, Omar wore the jerseys from castle. Cape Town has a huge muslim community, in fact the largest in Southern Africa and every time he went to the mosque the imam would shout "BE SHARAAM". Omar felt uncomfortable as his father was a muezzin. After 3 test matches he announced his retirement

 

[Justcrazy]

The problem is that in Islam there is no room for debate on such things.

Its not as per anyone's wishes

No one forces anyone to follow Islam .

 

[cricketjoshila]

I pay interest on my house mortgage. But I don't allow alcohol into my house. My employer sends Xmas hampers to employees homes at Christmas, usually containing a bottle each of expensive Champagne and wine, along with boxes of chocolates, cakes and biscuits (cookies). Since I have to sign for receipt of the delivery, I take the Champage and wine bottles out of the hamper (whilst the hamper is still outside the house) and give one each to my neighbours.

So yes, I'm dealing in double standards.

Can i come to your door the next christmas?You dnt need to let me in.

 

[Gilly]

Amla may not wear a beer sponsor logo but he plays for a team sponsored by beer company. He is a part of the beer company's advertising already being a member of the team.

 

[Rayyman]

Amla may not wear a beer sponsor logo but he plays for a team sponsored by beer company. He is a part of the beer company's advertising already being a member of the team.

That's just like saying, tell all vegetarians not to live in Australia because people eat meat over there.

 

[Gilly]

That's just like saying, tell all vegetarians not to live in Australia because people eat meat over there.

No its not like saying that at all, completely different.

Amla is playing for a team that is sponsored by a beer company, the company advertise they sponsor the team and Amla is part of that team.

So that would be like a vegetarian working in a butchers shop but not eating the meat.

 

[Couch Cricketer]

No its not like saying that at all, completely different.

Amla is playing for a team that is sponsored by a beer company, the company advertise they sponsor the team and Amla is part of that team.

So that would be like a vegetarian working in a butchers shop but not eating the meat.

You are correct Amla is getting paid by the sponsor's money as that is the money the cricket board uses to pay all the cricketers. Truthfully in the strictest of terms money earned professional sports are all haram just like interest is but you have to change with the times. Even Islamic Law (Shariat) was not supposed to be stagnant but was to evolve like laws of countries do.

 

[Justcrazy]

You are correct Amla is getting paid by the sponsor's money as that is the money the cricket board uses to pay all the cricketers. Truthfully in the strictest of terms money earned professional sports are all haram just like interest is but you have to change with the times. Even Islamic Law (Shariat) was not supposed to be stagnant but was to evolve like laws of countries do.

Islamic Laws are not supposed to change , They are for humankind till last day earth is there. Ijtehad is possible though , but within Shariah limits.

 

[James]

I pay interest on my house mortgage. But I don't allow alcohol into my house. My employer sends Xmas hampers to employees homes at Christmas, usually containing a bottle each of expensive Champagne and wine, along with boxes of chocolates, cakes and biscuits (cookies). Since I have to sign for receipt of the delivery, I take the Champage and wine bottles out of the hamper (whilst the hamper is still outside the house) and give one each to my neighbours.

So yes, I'm dealing in double standards.

The thing is though, you are clearly doing your best. Surely that is all anyone can be expected to do. Life has a lot of tricky scenarios and shades of grey, therefore absolute morality is almost impossible to achieve.