Hashim Amla continues to humble cricket experts

[TahirFan]

I remember Barry Richards who was a TV commentator for DSTV made a remark when Amla was selected for the Proteas

"Amla's batting technique is so poor that he is bound to fail as a international test batsman"

Amla proved him wrong


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Pat Symcox had this to say when Amla was selected to the South African ODI side

"Amla is a nurdler. He will be a liability to our ODI side. We need players with a good strike rate"

Amla proved him wrong

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Kepler Wessels had this to say when Amla was selected to play for South Africa in the T20 format

"Amla is a purist who is bound for a failure in a format that is not suited to his style of batting"

Amla proved him wrong


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Most experts on Pakpassion thought Amla would fail in the IPL.

Amla is proving them wrong

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Amla has the ability to easily switch from one format to another

 

[Mamoon]

Will still fail in the Champions Trophy. His status as the biggest Limited Overs choker of all time is beyond any doubt. Nonetheless, I don't recall anyone stating that he would fail in the IPL though. He does well in T20Is as well, unless it is the World T20, which is not surprising. He simply doesn't have the heart for the big games.

 

[Bilal7]

It's amazing to see that even at the age of 34, Amla hasn't stopped improving as a batsman. Shows you the dedication of the man and why he is a fan favorite. The second best ODI opener of all time, a legendary test batsman and now, he's become world class in T20s as well.

A champion cricketer and person. No wonder I, and many others, became fans way back in 2009. Heard he's having some troubles with his fitness though which isn't good.

 

[Bilal7]

Great opening post, by the way. Nicely presented.

 

[Hasan123]

Teaches you that you shouldn't write a batsmen off so quick.

 

[marlonbrowndo]

It's amazing to see that even at the age of 34, Amla hasn't stopped improving as a batsman. Shows you the dedication of the man and why he is a fan favorite. The second best ODI opener of all time, a legendary test batsman and now, he's become world class in T20s as well.

A champion cricketer and person. No wonder I, and many others, became fans way back in 2009. Heard he's having some troubles with his fitness though which isn't good.

How??? Gilchrist, Sachin, Anwar, Jayasuria, Hayden, Ganguly, Greenidge, Waugh were all better than Amla in ODIs

 

[marlonbrowndo]

How??? Gilchrist, Sachin, Anwar, Jayasuria, Hayden, Ganguly, Greenidge, Waugh were all better than Amla in ODIs

Forgot Gibbs

 

[Bilal7]

How??? Gilchrist, Sachin, Anwar, Jayasuria, Hayden, Ganguly, Greenidge, Waugh were all better than Amla in ODIs

No, they were not. Well, Sachin was, of course, but not the others. Some of those guys couldn't play swing, others were inconsistent and a couple were slow. Amla is the superior ODI player.

 

[Hasan123]

How??? Gilchrist, Sachin, Anwar, Jayasuria, Hayden, Ganguly, Greenidge, Waugh were all better than Amla in ODIs

There's no point in arguing with him.

I am certain had Amla been Indian he wouldn't be calling him the 2nd best opener.

 

[Bilal7]

There's no point in arguing with him.

I am certain had Amla been Indian he wouldn't be calling him the 2nd best opener.

I rate Sachin as the greatest ODI opener of all time and top three in ODIs so you're dead wrong, yet again.

Amla has Indian roots, by the way, genius.

 

[Mamoon]

Forgot Gibbs

He is not even the second best SA ODI opener of all time.

de Kock
Gibbs
Choker

 

[Mamoon]

Can we have a thread on how Amla continues to proves his critics right every single time there is an ICC tournament.

 

[Hasan123]

I rate Sachin as the greatest ODI opener of all time and top three in ODIs so you're dead wrong, yet again.

Amla has Indian roots, by the way, genius.

If he played for India you wouldn't be calling him the 2nd best odi one. Fact.

Lol don't act like you rate Sachin now. You have criticised him plenty and play down a lot of his achievements.

 

[Bilal7]

If he played for India you wouldn't be calling him the 2nd best odi one. Fact.

Lol don't act like you rate Sachin now. You have criticised him plenty and play down a lot of his achievements.

Well, I certainly don't worship at the altar of Sachin Tendulker, Alhamdullilah. However, he was undoubtedly a fantastic ODI batsman and was able to play in all conditions. I rate well-rounded players that are good in all departments, not hacks like Sehwag who went missing everytime the ball moved an inch.

Sachin Tendulker played for India and like I have said above, I rate him aplenty. Great players are great players, no matter what country they are from.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

He will only humble but humiliate if he ever manages to score on the big stage.

 

[TahirFan]

He will only humble but humiliate if he ever manages to score on the big stage.

Messi has disappointed Argentina in the world cup tournaments but he is still regarded as the greatest soccer player.

 

[shaz619]

If he played for India you wouldn't be calling him the 2nd best odi one. Fact.

Lol don't act like you rate Sachin now. You have criticised him plenty and play down a lot of his achievements.

Going by these genius logic's you've been throwing around then we could say you have an inferior complex and hence a bias against players of your own background or those you can relate to

 

[bleaf27]

Going by these genius logic's you've been throwing around then we could say you have an inferior complex and hence a bias against players of your own background or those you can relate to

Just because he's able to call a spade out doesn't mean there is inferiority complex. More so, attacking him for being able to question the superbly biased views on here is quite poor.

 

[Mamoon]

Messi has disappointed Argentina in the world cup tournaments but he is still regarded as the greatest soccer player.

That is because the Champions League is of the same standard and status as the World Cup. There is no bilateral cricket equivalent of football. The cricket and football analogy never works. Besides, Messi has done very well at the World Cup individually, and won the Golden Ball in 2014. Amla has been terrible in ICC tournaments when it comes to his own individual performance. If he plays well and SA still lose, he will not be blamed as much as he is blamed now. De Villiers has failed to seize the big moments for SA in World Cups, but he has still done really well. That's why he is not considered as big a choker as Amla.

 

[shaz619]

Just because he's able to call a spade out doesn't mean there is inferiority complex. More so, attacking him for being able to question the superbly biased views on here is quite poor.

He is merely being faced with the logic he is spewing, a failure to recognise that is not only poor but general ineptness. If one is being accused of having superbly biased views due to their background so lack objectivity then he can also be accused like many others for having an inferior complex, and it's not hard to call a spade a spade in that regard because you know there are many prominent pakistani posters here who do just that. What you are suggesting is that we shouldn't take you seriously if you're a fan of Sachin for example with you being an Indian etc

 

[Bilal7]

That is because the Champions League is of the same standard and status as the World Cup. There is no bilateral cricket equivalent of football. The cricket and football analogy never works. Besides, Messi has done very well at the World Cup individually, and won the Golden Ball in 2014. Amla has been terrible in ICC tournaments when it comes to his own individual performance. If he plays well and SA still lose, he will not be blamed as much as he is blamed now. De Villiers has failed to seize the big moments for SA in World Cups, but he has still done really well. That's why he is not considered as big a choker as Amla.

No, the Champions League is nowhere near the World Cup in stature and prestige. What a hilariously silly comment. A club competition that happens every year will never be given the same importance as a World Cup that happens every four years.

 

[Syed1]

Teaches you that you shouldn't write a batsmen off so quick.

Didn't you write off Fakhar after two T20 innings where he batted at five and six.

Checkmate

 

[Hasan123]

Going by these genius logic's you've been throwing around then we could say you have an inferior complex and hence a bias against players of your own background or those you can relate to

I don't have a bias against any of our players. Just because I don't call Younis atg doesn't make me any less of a fan. That's what you call ridiculous logic.

I have backed Azhar, Asad,Misbah, Babar, Amir, Sami Aslam, Shehzad, and some others when they have gone through difficult periods and other have called for the heads or been critical of them

I have given up sleep and time for Pakistan so never question my support for our players.


It's so obvious that Bilal opnion against Indians is not a fair and rational one.

It's better to be honest than shown blind patriotism.

 

[Hasan123]

Didn't you write off Fakhar after two T20 innings where he batted at five and six.

Checkmate

I don't think I wrote him off

Plus Amla was being written off when he was a young age. Fakhar is nearly 30 and won't improve much.

 

[bleaf27]

He is merely being faced with the logic he is spewing, a failure to recognise that is not only poor but general ineptness. If one is being accused of having superbly biased views due to their background so lack objectivity then he can also be accused like many others for having an inferior complex, and it's not hard to call a spade a spade in that regard because you know there are many prominent pakistani posters here who do just that. What you are suggesting is that we shouldn't take you seriously if you're a fan of Sachin for example with you being an Indian etc

Not necessarily because he is questioning a sentiment which is quite prevalent here , and mostly seen quite commonly. His premise is not earth shattering , Amla's glorification is no different than the glorification YK gets. Just because his notion does sway contrary to the sheep mentality over here doesn't make it a point of inferiority complex. Heck, questioning and calling double standards out which are quite prevalent here isn't a case of inferiority complex. Don't throw someone under the bus - He is quite right that had Amla been one of the current crop of the players playing for India - he may have not gotten the same level of indulgence here compared to what he get's now.

 

[Bilal7]

I don't have a bias against any of our players. Just because I don't call Younis atg doesn't make me any less of a fan. That's what you call ridiculous logic.

I have backed Azhar, Asad,Misbah, Babar, Amir, Sami Aslam, Shehzad, and some others when they have gone through difficult periods and other have called for the heads or been critical of them

I have given up sleep and time for Pakistan so never question my support for our players.


It's so obvious that Bilal opnion against Indians is not a fair and rational one.

It's better to be honest than shown blind patriotism.

You're getting beat down by two good posters on this forum, yet you persist in criticizing me for no reason whatsoever. I'm not a fake Pakistan fan like you who goes ga-ga over Kohli, who is a nobody at the test level, but never misses an opportunity to criticize our legend, Younis Khan.

Despite that, I have no problems admitting that Sachin and Gavasker are arguably two of the greatest test batsmen produced by the Asian subcontinent or that Sachin is the greatest across formats. Yes, I don't worship him so I am not afraid to point out his weaknesses but that does not make me irrational. I suggest you stop these personal attacks against me and focus on upping your own game. Thanks.

 

[shaz619]

I don't have a bias against any of our players. Just because I don't call Younis atg doesn't make me any less of a fan. That's what you call ridiculous logic.

I have backed Azhar, Asad,Misbah, Babar, Amir, Sami Aslam, Shehzad, and some others when they have gone through difficult periods and other have called for the heads or been critical of them

I have given up sleep and time for Pakistan so never question my support for our players.


It's so obvious that Bilal opnion against Indians is not a fair and rational one.

It's better to be honest than shown blind patriotism.

Firstly I've not said what you are claiming in your post about any less of a fan blah blah but I find it shocking that while you are going out of your way to rightly point out it's a ridiculous logic to accuse someone of not being a fan or lacking honesty/objectivity when they repeatedly advocate that so and so player is poor from their country the same applies on the opposite end, just because someone is in support of a player and hold a certain view it does not make them biased necessarily.

But if you do believe that he can be superbly biased and lacks objectivity due favouring various players then he can claim you have an inferior complex and generally underrate everything Pakistani well perhaps not on the mamoon level. Now am not say you are x or y but you should think about the rhetoric you are advocating.

 

[Hasan123]

You're getting beat down by two good posters on this forum, yet you persist in criticizing me for no reason whatsoever. I'm not a fake Pakistan fan like you who goes ga-ga over Kohli, who is a nobody at the test level, but never misses an opportunity to criticize our legend, Younis Khan.

Despite that, I have no problems admitting that Sachin and Gavasker are arguably two of the greatest test batsmen produced by the Asian subcontinent or that Sachin is the greatest across formats. Yes, I don't worship him so I am not afraid to point out his weaknesses but that does not make me irrational. I suggest you stop these personal attacks against me and focus on upping your own game. Thanks.

I am a fake fan just because I don't call 1 player an atg? Lol such brilliant logic. No need to question someone support for the team just because they don't agree with your opnion.

Yes batsmen who averages nearly 50 is a nobody at test level. And I need to up my game . )

 

[Hasan123]

Didn't you write off Fakhar after two T20 innings where he batted at five and six.

Checkmate

Btw if you want to play that game, I can remember a time where you called 60 plus averaging Steve Smith "a hit or miss batsmen".

 

[Mamoon]

No, the Champions League is nowhere near the World Cup in stature and prestige. What a hilariously silly comment. A club competition that happens every year will never be given the same importance as a World Cup that happens every four years.

The World Cup is a bigger prize but the standard of football is at best equivalent to the Champions League, where all the elite players in the world play in elite teams. The Champions League is pretty much the cricket equivalent of the WSC Supertests, which was a higher level than the Test cricket that was played at that time.

It doesn't matter how often it is played, it is the highest level of the game today and it laughable to put it at the same level as bilateral ODI and T20I cricket. On second thought, there is a bilateral ODI/T20I series equivalent in football, and that is the international friendly matches. International football is pretty much dead without the tournaments, and I can't think of an Amla in football who is extremely prolific in international friendlies, but fails to show up time and time again in international tournaments and the Champions League.

 

[shaz619]

Not necessarily because he is questioning a sentiment which is quite prevalent here , and mostly seen quite commonly. His premise is not earth shattering , Amla's glorification is no different than the glorification YK gets. Just because his notion does sway contrary to the sheep mentality over here doesn't make it a point of inferiority complex. Heck, questioning and calling double standards out which are quite prevalent here isn't a case of inferiority complex. Don't throw someone under the bus - He is quite right that had Amla been one of the current crop of the players playing for India - he may have not gotten the same level of indulgence here compared to what he get's now.

I think you have failed to understand the post, let me break it down in simple terms;

If one can be accused of having a superior complex, why can the other not be accused of having an inferior complex? in both cases what is important is objectivity, but what you are suggesting is that we shouldn't take you or your sheep mentality seriously with regards to Sachin Tendulkar and his achievements for example as you are a huge fan of him but if you criticise him then your views should be advocated as gospel because now you're among the rare breeds who is going against the contrary.

 

[Hasan123]

Firstly I've not said what you are claiming in your post about any less of a fan blah blah but I find it shocking that while you are going out of your way to rightly point out it's a ridiculous logic to accuse someone of not being a fan or lacking honesty/objectivity when they repeatedly advocate that so and so player is poor from their country the same applies on the opposite end, just because someone is in support of a player and hold a certain view it does not make them biased necessarily.

But if you do believe that he can be superbly biased and lacks objectivity due favouring various players then he can claim you have an inferior complex and generally underrate everything Pakistani well perhaps not on the mamoon level. Now am not say you are x or y but you should think about the rhetoric you are advocating.

No I don't underrate everything Pakistani. I try to be as positive as I can. I think you are assuming I am negative because of my opnion on Younis.

 

[Bilal7]

The World Cup is a bigger prize but the standard of football is at best equivalent to the Champions League, where all the elite players in the world play in elite teams. The Champions League is pretty much the cricket equivalent of the WSC Supertests, which was a higher level than the Test cricket that was played at that time.

It doesn't matter how often it is played, it is the highest level of the game today and it laughable to put it at the same level as bilateral ODI and T20I cricket. On second thought, there is a bilateral ODI/T20I series equivalent in football, and that is the international friendly matches. International football is pretty much dead without the tournaments, and I can't think of an Amla in football who is extremely prolific in international friendlies, but fails to show up time and time again in international tournaments and the Champions League.

Good. You have corrected your mistake and rather smoothly, I may add. Carry one, chap. Tell me why Amla is the worst batsman to ever pick up a bat

 

[Hasan123]

I think you have failed to understand the post, let me break it down in simple terms;

If one can be accused of having a superior complex, why can the other not be accused of having an inferior complex? in both cases what is important is objectivity, but what you are suggesting is that we shouldn't take you or your sheep mentality seriously with regards to Sachin Tendulkar and his achievements for example as you are a huge fan of him but if you criticise him then your views should be advocated as gospel because now you're among the rare breeds who is going against the contrary.

Difference is I can critizce Kohli. I am a fan of Azhar but I was critical of his captaincy in odis. Same with Misbah in tests.

Find me one post where Bilal has been critical of Younis or Amla. He claims to rate players who score in all conditions, he went into hiding when Younis was made to look like a tailender in NZ a few months ago in seam friendly conditions.

That is what you call biased and backing favourites

 

[shaz619]

No I don't underrate everything Pakistani. I try to be as positive as I can. I think you are assuming I am negative because of my opnion on Younis.

I didn't say you are nor have I suggested you are negative or pointed out your use of an opinion. But if you call others biased because they are a fan, then we can call you biased for not sharing the views of those who are a fan of a certain idea.

 

[Haz95]

The World Cup is a bigger prize but the standard of football is at best equivalent to the Champions League, where all the elite players in the world play in elite teams. The Champions League is pretty much the cricket equivalent of the WSC Supertests, which was a higher level than the Test cricket that was played at that time.

It doesn't matter how often it is played, it is the highest level of the game today and it laughable to put it at the same level as bilateral ODI and T20I cricket. On second thought, there is a bilateral ODI/T20I series equivalent in football, and that is the international friendly matches. International football is pretty much dead without the tournaments, and I can't think of an Amla in football who is extremely prolific in international friendlies, but fails to show up time and time again in international tournaments and the Champions League.

Ghana 2010(?) World Cup was the biggest choke job I've ever seen in international football. My biggest regret wrt cricket is not having seen the WSC Supertests.

On topic, Hashim Amla is a major choker tbh but if one is gonna downplay him they must also downplay Virat Kohli because he's also a choker in World Cups but has played some uglyass scratchy innings in the (group stage) matches he has performed in. Like Amla.

Until Virat wins his team a Semi Final and/or Final, he will be forever regarded as a wonderful bilateral batsman like the mighty Hash.

 

[shaz619]

Just because someone is a fan of a certain player doesn't make what they say wrong or lack objectivity

 

[Hasan123]

I didn't say you are nor have I suggested you are negative or pointed out your use of an opinion. But if you call others biased because they are a fan, then we can call you biased for not sharing the views of those who are a fan of a certain idea.

No for others you can call it disagreeing with my opnion and vice versa.

If Kohli fails in the champions trophy and I will say he failed. Whilst if Amla fails you will find thousands of excuses from Bilal as to why he failed instead of admitting be is a choker.

That is my point and that's the difference between me and him.

 

[bleaf27]

I think you have failed to understand the post, let me break it down in simple terms;

If one can be accused of having a superior complex, why can the other not be accused of having an inferior complex? in both cases what is important is objectivity, but what you are suggesting is that we shouldn't take you or your sheep mentality seriously with regards to Sachin Tendulkar and his achievements for example as you are a huge fan of him but if you criticise him then your views should be advocated as gospel because now you're among the rare breeds who is going against the contrary.

Me not agreeing with your logic isn't my failing to understand the point bruv. The point is that you are accusing him of having an "inferiority complex" because all the sheep here are not in touch with reality and live in their own bubble. Just because he is brave enough to peek outside and see a different world doesn't make him any inferior to any of you , I'd say superior on the contrary.
In terms of Sachin , what my views or opinions on Sachin are solely mine - they don't need to be forced down anyone's throat. For me to defend Sachin, would be me insulting Sachin and his hardwork because he's made that name for himself that he doesn't need me to defend him. If the sport itself salutes the guy ,he's earned that - I am not required.
I do point out of flaws of a lot of Indian players out here and whether that's considered as a gospel or not - that's your prerogative. His point is to question the mentality of why Amla / Tahir would be regarded quite highly whereas if those guys had been representing India - they wouldn't get the same adulation and that is a very genuine question. Don't shoot the messenger here - he's just pointing out the obvious

 

[shaz619]

Me not agreeing with your logic isn't my failing to understand the point bruv. The point is that you are accusing him of having an "inferiority complex" because all the sheep here are not in touch with reality and live in their own bubble. Just because he is brave enough to peek outside and see a different world doesn't make him any inferior to any of you , I'd say superior on the contrary.
In terms of Sachin , what my views or opinions on Sachin are solely mine - they don't need to be forced down anyone's throat. For me to defend Sachin, would be me insulting Sachin and his hardwork because he's made that name for himself that he doesn't need me to defend him. If the sport itself salutes the guy ,he's earned that - I am not required.
I do point out of flaws of a lot of Indian players out here and whether that's considered as a gospel or not - that's your prerogative. His point is to question the mentality of why Amla / Tahir would be regarded quite highly whereas if those guys had been representing India - they wouldn't get the same adulation and that is a very genuine question. Don't shoot the messenger here - he's just pointing out the obvious

I think you've misunderstood, he's not being accused of having an inferior complex! but if he is accusing others of having a superior complex then he can be accused of having an inferior complex! but objectivity is key!

 

[Hasan123]

Me not agreeing with your logic isn't my failing to understand the point bruv. The point is that you are accusing him of having an "inferiority complex" because all the sheep here are not in touch with reality and live in their own bubble. Just because he is brave enough to peek outside and see a different world doesn't make him any inferior to any of you , I'd say superior on the contrary.
In terms of Sachin , what my views or opinions on Sachin are solely mine - they don't need to be forced down anyone's throat. For me to defend Sachin, would be me insulting Sachin and his hardwork because he's made that name for himself that he doesn't need me to defend him. If the sport itself salutes the guy ,he's earned that - I am not required.
I do point out of flaws of a lot of Indian players out here and whether that's considered as a gospel or not - that's your prerogative. His point is to question the mentality of why Amla / Tahir would be regarded quite highly whereas if those guys had been representing India - they wouldn't get the same adulation and that is a very genuine question. Don't shoot the messenger here - he's just pointing out the obvious

That was the only point I was trying to make LOL. But somehow it makes me an Indian fan or it makes me biased.

When Amla fails in the champions trophy, he will make excuses as to why he failed instead of admitting he's a choker which this whole forum can see apart from him.

 

[Bewal Express]

Hasham Amla is a terrible player. Why was he ever picked by SA? They should have picked some guy that scores a hundred every 4 tests or so and averages 50, score 25+ 100's in ODI'S and a guy that makes batting look easy.

 

[Mamoon]

Ghana 2010(?) World Cup was the biggest choke job I've ever seen in international football. My biggest regret wrt cricket is not having seen the WSC Supertests.

On topic, Hashim Amla is a major choker tbh but if one is gonna downplay him they must also downplay Virat Kohli because he's also a choker in World Cups but has played some uglyass scratchy innings in the (group stage) matches he has performed in. Like Amla.

Until Virat wins his team a Semi Final and/or Final, he will be forever regarded as a wonderful bilateral batsman like the mighty Hash.

There was a question mark on Messi but he delivered in the 2014 World Cup. He has also delivered for Argentina in other tournaments but Higuain always get between him and an international trophy. I really don't think a comparison between him and Amla can be established. He is far ahead in his game.

As far as Kohli goes, he certainly needs to deliver in a World Cup for India. 2019 is going to be his biggest challenge. He is in his peak and needs to deliver, otherwise he will fall short of the league of Viv Richards, Tendulkar, Ponting etc., who all performed well in World Cups. However, the reason why he gets more leeway than Amla is because he has performed well tournaments besides the World Cup, where he has a century against Pakistan at least, the most hyped up game of the World Cup. Amla has centuries vs Netherlands and Ireland only in World Cups.

Kohli has delivered masterclass performances in WT20s, and he played a big role in the 2013 CT final. This shows that he has the nerve to handle pressure and perform in big moments. Amla on the other hand, has failed in every single ICC tournament, be it the World Cup, the CT or the WT20, and he has played more tournaments as well. Unless he performance in the 1-2 ICC tournaments that are left in his career, his status as the greatest LOI choker of all time is unquestionable in my opinion. There is no other big player who has failed so much so often in tournaments. Even our own choker MoYo has done well in the CT, and Inzi choked badly in 96, 99 and 2003 (let's ignore 2007 for various reasons), he played an ATG innings in the 92 SF.

 

[bleaf27]

I think you've misunderstood, he's not being accused of having an inferior complex! but if he is accusing others of having a superior complex then he can be accused of having an inferior complex! but objectivity is key!

If he is accusing other's of having a superiority complex then the answer to that is accusing of him an inferiority complex? From what it seems , doesn't seem like he has accused anyone of a superiority complex, him questioning the accolades Amla gets here due to obvious reasons isn't an accusation , it's a pretty common observation.
And he is being objective because questioning whether Amla would have gotten the same adulation if he was Indian - how is that an accusation of superiority complex ? It may be a question regarding bias - which even you cannot deny runs rampant from time to time

 

[Haz95]

There was a question mark on Messi but he delivered in the 2014 World Cup. He has also delivered for Argentina in other tournaments but Higuain always get between him and an international trophy. I really don't think a comparison between him and Amla can be established. He is far ahead in his game.

As far as Kohli goes, he certainly needs to deliver in a World Cup for India. 2019 is going to be his biggest challenge. He is in his peak and needs to deliver, otherwise he will fall short of the league of Viv Richards, Tendulkar, Ponting etc., who all performed well in World Cups. However, the reason why he gets more leeway than Amla is because he has performed well tournaments besides the World Cup, where he has a century against Pakistan at least, the most hyped up game of the World Cup. Amla has centuries vs Netherlands and Ireland only in World Cups.

Kohli has delivered masterclass performances in WT20s, and he played a big role in the 2013 CT final. This shows that he has the nerve to handle pressure and perform in big moments. Amla on the other hand, has failed in every single ICC tournament, be it the World Cup, the CT or the WT20, and he has played more tournaments as well. Unless he performance in the 1-2 ICC tournaments that are left in his career, his status as the greatest LOI choker of all time is unquestionable in my opinion. There is no other big player who has failed so much so often in tournaments. Even our own choker MoYo has done well in the CT, and Inzi choked badly in 96, 99 and 2003 (let's ignore 2007 for various reasons), he played an ATG innings in the 92 SF.

Can't argue with this tbh. Inzimam can be forgiven for all his world cup failures purely due to that one inning becoz that was probably one of the GOAT ODI innings.

I don't agree that Hashim is the worst choker ever lol [MENTION=129948]Bilal7[/MENTION] but there's no denying that he's been close to woeful for a player of his calibre in important matches in WCs. Probably that's why Mamoon is so hellbent on proving he's horrendous (which he's not). Amla is a Limited overs choker however in tests, he is (was) a different animal who thrived in all situations and conditions. Certainly one of the best, if not the best of the 2010-2015 period which is why one cannot call him the biggest choker ever lol.

 

[Bilal7]

Please read the above reply. If it doesn't make things crystal clear, I cannot help you further.

The Champions Trophy, WT20, etc are not the same level as a World Cup. Even South Africa have won a Champions Trophy and England have won a WT20 and both of those are nations that are widely regarded as consistent chokers. You bring up Kohli's performances in these tournaments as a defense for his epic choking in World Cups (who can forget that innings vs Australia in the semi-finals of the World Cup by the "greatest chaser of all time"?), yet there is no mention of Amla's performance in the WT20 where he played a match-winning innings against England and was one of South Africa's best players. You bring up Kohli's flukey, scratchy century against Pakistan where it looked like he had his heart in his mouth the entire time but make no mention of Amla's 70+ against India in the 2011 WC, which was a splendid innings.

Anyways, there is no helping you on this topic.

 

[Bilal7]

Can't argue with this tbh. Inzimam can be forgiven for all his world cup failures purely due to that one inning becoz that was probably one of the GOAT ODI innings.

I don't agree that Hashim is the worst choker ever lol [MENTION=129948]Bilal7[/MENTION] but there's no denying that he's been close to woeful for a player of his calibre in important matches in WCs. Probably that's why Mamoon is so hellbent on proving he's horrendous (which he's not). Amla is a Limited overs choker however in tests, he is (was) a different animal who thrived in all situations and conditions. Certainly one of the best, if not the best of the 2010-2015 period which is why one cannot call him the biggest choker ever lol.

Except that Amla's innings against India in the 2011 WC was better than Kohli's innings against Pakistan in the 2015 WC. No one is talking about T20s right now, we are discussing Amla and Kohli in ODIs.

 

[Azrim_91]

Can we have a thread on how Amla continues to proves his critics right every single time there is an ICC tournament.

I'll remember your words. South Africa will either win the CT or The WC in 2019, and believe me, Hashim and De Villiers will play a huge role.

Mark my words.

 

[Haz95]

Except that Amla's innings against India in the 2011 WC was better than Kohli's innings against Pakistan in the 2015 WC. No one is talking about T20s right now, we are discussing Amla and Kohli in ODIs.

They're both bottlers. I'm no fan of the motorway king (as Shaz would say lol) but that doesn't mean I will use that to be biased against him. He has proven himself in the CT final which is the only thing that which distinguishes the two ODI bottlers while Amla has no semi final/final performance that I can remember (correct me if am wrong) that's worth noting. Both are complete failures in world cup games that matter.
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] I don't agree with using the T20 example as it's different formats and the Pakistan game (mainly because Pak vs Ind is just one sided and has been since Pak became ODI minnows who will lose before they even play). Therefore there's only one thing that differentiates them and that's Kohlis CT inning which itself was OK...good for a Bottlers standard. I'd give a special shoutout to Kohlis 183 but meh it's arguable that it's not that important so for now I shall disregard it.

Anyway, Steve Smith is the best ODI Batsman in the world, the one who leads from the front and leads his team to glory . I'd back Buttler and Root to make a mark too.

 

[SpiritOf1903]

Cricket's Mesut Ozil.

 

[Tusker]

The Champions Trophy, WT20, etc are not the same level as a World Cup. Even South Africa have won a Champions Trophy and England have won a WT20 and both of those are nations that are widely regarded as consistent chokers. You bring up Kohli's performances in these tournaments as a defense for his epic choking in World Cups (who can forget that innings vs Australia in the semi-finals of the World Cup by the "greatest chaser of all time"?), yet there is no mention of Amla's performance in the WT20 where he played a match-winning innings against England and was one of South Africa's best players. You bring up Kohli's flukey, scratchy century against Pakistan where it looked like he had his heart in his mouth the entire time but make no mention of Amla's 70+ against India in the 2011 WC, which was a splendid innings.

Anyways, there is no helping you on this topic.

In B4 you find a magical formula where Bilaterals >= WorldCups ... The day is not far ... )

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Amla has a chance to silence his critics in England Champions Trophy while Kohli can also lay claim.

Let's see which one wins the battle this time.

 

[khurram39]

He is too good.

 

[Smbhayi]

Will still fail in the Champions Trophy. His status as the biggest Limited Overs choker of all time is beyond any doubt. Nonetheless, I don't recall anyone stating that he would fail in the IPL though. He does well in T20Is as well, unless it is the World T20, which is not surprising. He simply doesn't have the heart for the big games.

he got a pretty good stat on wt20. so you're wrong.

 

[Mamoon]

The Champions Trophy, WT20, etc are not the same level as a World Cup. Even South Africa have won a Champions Trophy and England have won a WT20 and both of those are nations that are widely regarded as consistent chokers. You bring up Kohli's performances in these tournaments as a defense for his epic choking in World Cups (who can forget that innings vs Australia in the semi-finals of the World Cup by the "greatest chaser of all time"?), yet there is no mention of Amla's performance in the WT20 where he played a match-winning innings against England and was one of South Africa's best players. You bring up Kohli's flukey, scratchy century against Pakistan where it looked like he had his heart in his mouth the entire time but make no mention of Amla's 70+ against India in the 2011 WC, which was a splendid innings.

Anyways, there is no helping you on this topic.

Again, you are missing the point. I didn't say that those tournaments are at the same level as the World Cup, and I also don't use them to defend Kohli's performance in World Cups. My point is that Kohli gets more leeway than Amla because he has already shown that he can handle the pressure of tournaments.

Amla on the other hand, has failed in every ICC tournament. He has not won a single knockout match for his team with his bat in any ICC tournament. SA have only won one knockout match during Amla's career, and that was when they were chasing a lowly total with Amla falling cheaply. He does not fail in the CTs and the WT20s because they are not very important; he fails because he simply cannot handle the pressure of tournaments. Be it the World Cup, the CT or the WT20. On the contrary, Kohli's performance in tournaments (besides the World Cup) shows that he can absorb the pressure.

Besides, given how the two batsmen bat and keeping their great performances into consideration, it is clear who a neutral person will back to come good under pressure. Kohli is a ruthless match-winner, Amla is just an accumulator. However, as I have mentioned numerous times, unless Kohli delivers in a World Cup for India, he will fall below the ODI ATGs like Tendulkar, Viv and Ponting.

Yes yes, Kohli's century vs Pakistan was a fluke. Never mind the fact that he was not in good touch but still found a way to grind it out, which showed his character. Whenever Kohli scores, it is either a fluke or an extremely flat pitch. On the contrary, Amla's innings vs India in the 2011 World Cup (before he chopped the ball onto his boot) was so classy that Don Bradman woke up from his grave and gave him a standing ovation.

Had Kohli scored both of his World Cups hundreds against Associate nations like Amla, we wouldn't have heard the end of it from you. You would be like ''but but, Amla at least scored against Pakistan. Kohli the choker scored against Netherlands and Ireland hehehe''....

 

[Mamoon]

he got a pretty good stat on wt20. so you're wrong.

He was rubbish in 2012 and 2014, but played one good innings in 2016, where Joe Root produced a masterclass to overshadow him. Overall, he has been poor and hasn't won SA a single game in any ICC tournament.

 

[Mamoon]

They're both bottlers. I'm no fan of the motorway king (as Shaz would say lol) but that doesn't mean I will use that to be biased against him. He has proven himself in the CT final which is the only thing that which distinguishes the two ODI bottlers while Amla has no semi final/final performance that I can remember (correct me if am wrong) that's worth noting. Both are complete failures in world cup games that matter.
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] I don't agree with using the T20 example as it's different formats and the Pakistan game (mainly because Pak vs Ind is just one sided and has been since Pak became ODI minnows who will lose before they even play). Therefore there's only one thing that differentiates them and that's Kohlis CT inning which itself was OK...good for a Bottlers standard. I'd give a special shoutout to Kohlis 183 but meh it's arguable that it's not that important so for now I shall disregard it.

Anyway, Steve Smith is the best ODI Batsman in the world, the one who leads from the front and leads his team to glory . I'd back Buttler and Root to make a mark too.

As I said earlier, Kohli has to do well in World Cups to finish as a genuine ODI ATG. However, the main point is handling pressure of ICC tournaments. Kohli has done that except for the World Cup, while Amla has failed in all formats in all tournaments. That is why he is under the microscope more. Considering his overall numbers and stature, I do think he is the biggest LOI choker of all time. Can't think of any other batsman who has been so brilliant in bilaterals but so woeful in ICC tournaments.

Smith at the moment is the best batsman in the world without a doubt. However, I won't put him ahead of Kohli in ODIs yet. Yes he did bat very well in the 2015 World Cup, but a peak Kohli hasn't had the luxury of playing a World Cup at home. He has only played one tournament in India in his peak, i.e. the WT20 last year, and he produced a masterclass. However, he is well, well ahead in Tests at the moment and is sprinting towards ATG status.

The gap between him and Kohli/Root/Williamson continues to widen. The only question mark on him IMO, is his longevity. Given his unorthodox technique, he might decline early than the other three. In their late 30's, the other three would probably be better, but if Smith can maintain this level for another 4-5 years, longevity won't matter. He will be an ATG.

 

[Haz95]

As I said earlier, Kohli has to do well in World Cups to finish as a genuine ODI ATG. However, the main point is handling pressure of ICC tournaments. Kohli has done that except for the World Cup, while Amla has failed in all formats in all tournaments. That is why he is under the microscope more. Considering his overall numbers and stature, I do think he is the biggest LOI choker of all time. Can't think of any other batsman who has been so brilliant in bilaterals but so woeful in ICC tournaments.

Smith at the moment is the best batsman in the world without a doubt. However, I won't put him ahead of Kohli in ODIs yet. Yes he did bat very well in the 2015 World Cup, but a peak Kohli hasn't had the luxury of playing a World Cup at home. He has only played one tournament in India in his peak, i.e. the WT20 last year, and he produced a masterclass. However, he is well, well ahead in Tests at the moment and is sprinting towards ATG status.

The gap between him and Kohli/Root/Williamson continues to widen. The only question mark on him IMO, is his longevity. Given his unorthodox technique, he might decline early than the other three. In their late 30's, the other three would probably be better, but if Smith can maintain this level for another 4-5 years, longevity won't matter. He will be an ATG.

If Smith manages to handle a new ball attack against the likes of Woakes/Anderson/Broad on a greentop, he's already an ATG then. It's the only blip on an otherwise perfect record. While Kohli will fall short of the ATG category in tests I reckon, probably will end on KP level.

 

[msb314]

The World Cup is a bigger prize but the standard of football is at best equivalent to the Champions League, where all the elite players in the world play in elite teams. The Champions League is pretty much the cricket equivalent of the WSC Supertests, which was a higher level than the Test cricket that was played at that time.

It doesn't matter how often it is played, it is the highest level of the game today and it laughable to put it at the same level as bilateral ODI and T20I cricket. On second thought, there is a bilateral ODI/T20I series equivalent in football, and that is the international friendly matches. International football is pretty much dead without the tournaments, and I can't think of an Amla in football who is extremely prolific in international friendlies, but fails to show up time and time again in international tournaments and the Champions League.

Actually - the equivalent of UCL is the IPL in cricket.

All the big stars play there and hence the standard is very high - the prize money and glamour are there as well.

The World T20 is like the FIFA World Cup I guess.

IPL is not taken seriously as the UCL by some pundits and fans since it is still new - give it a decade or so and it will be the elite form of T20 and the dream for all players. It is just a matter of perception...

 

[Smbhayi]

He was rubbish in 2012 and 2014, but played one good innings in 2016, where Joe Root produced a masterclass to overshadow him. Overall, he has been poor and hasn't won SA a single game in any ICC tournament.

Lol he wasn't rubbish in 2014, he has a very good tournament that year. you just showing your hatred here.
plus overshadowing or not that was a brilliant innings and he performed well in 2 out of 3 matches.

Overall he has a good tournament 2 out of 3. so he isn't poor in WT20s unless you're a hater.

 

[SL_Fan]

Amla has flopped in ICC tourneys no doubt about that.

In the 2014 T20i WC he made a good 50 vs Eng. It was AB's blitzkrieg tho that allowed SA to hang on only just. Nothing much apart from that.

In the 2016 T20i WC he made another good 50 vs Eng but this time Eng chased it down. Again nothing much apart from that. His average that WC is inflated by a 56 not out he made against us in a dead-rubber after SA were already knocked out.

 

[TahirFan]

Another T20 hundred for Amla - he just keeps on silences his critics

Another T20 hundred for Amla - he just keeps on silences his critics​

Hashim Amla . What a giant in all forms of cricket

 

[Nikhil_cric]

So now IPL performances count when rating players? Good to know. He's a good batsman but is not an ATG and will never be .

 

[khan991]

One of the best players around and also part of a great team. They desperately need to win a major trophy if they want to save their legacy talking about hash, AB and steyn.

 

[ExpressPacer]

He's done. Should only play Tests. But I'm not sure if he can play the moving ball anymore either. He'll fail in the CT. Needs to be replaced by some deserving white player in a year or so.

 

[Mamoon]

Will still fail in the Champions Trophy.

 

[LastManstanding]

Like his last hundred, this one is also going to result in a loss for his team.

 

[TahirFan]

Like his last hundred, this one is also going to result in a loss for his team.

Amla again batted with a strike rate of 174

It's not Amla's fault if his team players keep on dropping dolly catches

 

[LastManstanding]

Amla again batted with a strike rate of 174

It's not Amla's fault if his team players keep on dropping dolly catches

No need to get so defensive. Amla has been outpaced in two matches by the opposition batsmen which clearly show he wasn't playing fast enough for the conditions. May be strike rate of 170 isn't good enough. But don't worry he is a class batsman he will learn to play T20 too.

 

[Bilal7]

Fantastic T20 innings yet again by one of the greatest batsmen of all time. So much for being "one-paced". Average of 60 with a SR of 145 in this year's IPL.

 

[Rotoman]

60 Balls hundreds are slow by today's t20 standards. You need 40-50 ball centuries to really grab the match by its scruff.

 

[big_gamer007]

He can cement his legacy as one of the ATG if he helps SA win CT and WC.. otherwise he will always be remembered as a choker..

 

[Bilal7]

60 Balls hundreds are slow by today's t20 standards. You need 40-50 ball centuries to really grab the match by its scruff.

How many players have ever scored a 40 ball T20 century?

Loving the fact that Amla's handful of Indian haters are always so bum-hurt. Amla > any Indian batsman not named Sachin Tendulker.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

IPL is a joke now, not even Indians take it seriously. Amla doing well in IPL doesn't mean jack, he has to perform in ODIs and test where he's in decline for 3 years now

 

[Ab Fan]

It was a quality knock. Deserves to be appreciated.

However, nobody is telling to base your conclusion on this very knock.

 

[spade]

Not to take anything away from Amla but, scoring runs in ipl doesn't carry much weightage, the cricket is substandard, with small grounds and lightning quick outfields any decent player can pummel the opposition. Pakistani batsman who i feel are the worst among all test playing nations would have relished such playing conditions, below average players like shehzad and hafeez would have looked million dollars on such lopsided contests.

 

[TahirFan]

This thread has nothing to do whether Amla is an OTG or not.

Very few people thought that Amla would do well in T20 games and Amla has proved them wrong

 

[ahmedwaqas92]

You know the standard of cricket for this league is low when a test specialist like Amla is hitting a 60 ball hundred with ease.

Amla should try to be a part of the PSL next season and only can we gauge whether he's cut out to be a T20 player or not.

 

[Rotoman]

How many players have ever scored a 40 ball T20 century?

Loving the fact that Amla's handful of Indian haters are always so bum-hurt. Amla > any Indian batsman not named Sachin Tendulker.

Not even hating. What you said might be true. What I said is my opinion, no need to get butt hurt. With a sixty ball century a team needs to score 100 runs in 60 balls, that's fairly common practice nowadays whether you like it or not.

 

[mojohnson]

With a sixty ball century a team needs to score 100 runs in 60 balls, that's fairly common practice nowadays whether you like it or not.

Well there have only been 8 totals of 200 and above in this IPL so it's not as common as you make out.