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Have MS Dhoni's performances in this ICC World Cup 2019 damaged his legacy?

Either you finish things in whatever is the best by your way or show the aggression as early you could.

All his career, the story was in the end Dhoni becomes the hero even though he used to be the one messing up the game but today he couldn't even though he was completely led by a champion knock from Jadeja.
 
Goodbye MSD

I assume he will retire. Certainly last WC game. My fave Indian cricketer ever (along with Kumble). ATG and a real legend. Go easy into retirement, champ.
 
Despite the loss, he did well in his last innings(i think?). Compare this to Malik who ended his ODI career with 0(1) against India.
 
He was the second best player today, the problem is people always blame the player that finishes the match and not the opening players.
 
Nah. Should have retired last world cup but he will always be their best captain.
 
Havok said:
He was the second best player today, the problem is people always blame the player that finishes the match and not the opening players.
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he had spent time in the middle and clearly could've scored atleast 15 more runs in partnership with Jadeja but he choose to leave balls outside off stump when RR was 10+

Dhoni should've retired 12 months ago, I wish he had retired.
 
Not blaming Dhoni for today's loss. Dhoni has been a gambler as SG said, he won some lost some.

With all due respect, I hope this was his last International match not just last WC match. Or may be arrange a goodbye series with WI/SL But you never know, if DK can be around for 16 years and makes his WC debut in 2019 edition, anything is possible with our selectors.

Hotstar's post match analysis is being turned into a Dhoni tribute! .
 
He miscalculated his innings today as well because he was leaving the ball in the 45th over.

Def past his time. He’s being selected for his brand value I think.
 
Who was there to replace him? Sure he's a shell of his former self but still I'd say he is leaving with his head held high. He's been an enormous asset to the Indian ODI team and deserved to play this WC on merit. But hope he retires ASAP. The rebuilding has to start from Day 1 post the WC.
 
Dhoni wasn't responsible for todays loss, kohli is the biggest culprit.
Captaincy made him a choker.
 
India would have been bundled for less than 150 if not for Dhoni today

Such ungrateful fans. he had it perfectly set up and a direct hit that will happen once in 10 times got him out
 
Yes, he's lost them more matches than anyone can count and his antics with the army nonsense has been misplaced. The fact that he still does not have a century outside Asia also hurts his status. A great player still and a shoe-in in my all-time ODI XI but he's slipped.
 
I had a feeling our WC campaign was going to end with Dhoni's dragging the whole team down but you can't blame him today. If it wasn't for him we would have lost much earlier. Everyone except for him and Jadeja were falling like deck fo cards.
 
Is this the end of the phenomenon called "Dhoni"?

Long golden haired guy coming in no 3 against arch rivals Pakistan, in only his 5th ODI match and scoring 148 of 123 balls in the first innings to take his team to enough total which was enough for his team to win.

One of the best finisher the World has ever seen in ODI format which is manifested by his career SR of 87 and Avg of 50+. Won countless matches for India in tense finishes a feat which will be difficult to replicate.

While he was undoubtedly a legendary ODI Batsman but he was also a legendary keeper with the sort of intelligence and game sense not many wicket keepers were known for. He took 321 catches and made 123 stumpings.

If that wasnt enough he was one of the best leaders the world has ever seen. He won WT20 2007, WC 2011 and CT 2013, all the big trophies in cricket.

It all started when he lead his team to World T20 2007 trophy after a revamp in Indian LOI team post 2007 WC's disastrous campaign when nobody expected that from him. He made his own team with youth and young blood and making fitness, fielding and temperament a priority which wasn't the priority in Indian cricket culture before that.

He groomed arguably two of the greatest Indian batsmen of Indian LOI history in Kohli and Rohit.

While I am a Pak fan but have high regard and admiration for Dhoni and his game sense, leadership and as a WK batsman.

In 2019 WC he was past his prime as no player can control the reflexes on the wrong side of 30's. His performances were definitely not upto the mark but it should taking nothing away from the phenomenon he was.

He revolutionized Indian cricket and will always be remembered in the history books for his achievements. I think it might be the end of phenomenon called "Dhoni", though not the most fitting end but that cant take away the marks he left on this extraordinary game of cricket.
 
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i think today, Dhoni has dented his reputation for the indian fans for good... he will always be remembered as the man who hid behind an injured all-rounder (pandya) and a novice (Pant) ...for neutrals, esp Pak fans, he lost his value with that Eng innings.... such a shame for some1 like Dhoni to go out like this... such a shame ...
 
I don't buy this he was playing his role and doing it for the team by steadying one hand.

The guy built pressure on Pandya who got out, then he put pressure on Jadeja who lost his wicket.

Dhoni was leaving balls he should have hit, playing balls back to the bowler with no intention.

Every time the camera went on Kohli when Dhoni played a dot-ball, you could see the frustration on Kohli's face.

Very poor and strange innings.
 
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Saj said:
I don't buy this he was playing his role and doing it for th team by steadying one hand.

The guy built pressure on Pandya who got out, then he put pressure on Jadeja who lost his wicket.

Dhoni was leaving balls he should have hit, playing balls back to the bowler with no intention.

Every time the camera went on Kohli when Dhoni played a dot-ball, you could see the frustration on Kohli's face.

Very poor and strange innings.
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This!

Kohli deserves it.

Thot he would piggy back on Dhoni's advice.

Paid the price.
 
Kohli deserves every bit of humiliation that is coming his way.
 
Rellu_Katta said:
i think today, Dhoni has dented his reputation for the indian fans for good... he will always be remembered as the man who hid behind an injured all-rounder (pandya) and a novice (Pant) ...for neutrals, esp Pak fans, he lost his value with that Eng innings.... such a shame for some1 like Dhoni to go out like this... such a shame ...
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"You either die a hero or live long enough to turn into a villian"
 
Saj said:
I don't buy this he was playing his role and doing it for the team by steadying one hand.

The guy built pressure on Pandya who got out, then he put pressure on Jadeja who lost his wicket.

Dhoni was leaving balls he should have hit, playing balls back to the bowler with no intention.

Every time the camera went on Kohli when Dhoni played a dot-ball, you could see the frustration on Kohli's face.

Very poor and strange innings.
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LIke Misbah in 2011 WC semi-final, but not nearly as bad.

Dhoni will be villified by Indian fans now I think. Pak fans are much more forgiving. They accepted Misbah as captain after the worst innings I have seen live on TV for Pakistan - his knock against India at Mohali 2011. And now he parades around TV with his new Mullah style, dyed beard (why he would dye it as a supposedly pious, humble man, I have no idea).
 
We had hopes till Dhoni was there. Once he got out, it was done for India. We all knew.

Actually when Dhoni hit that six, we all had the confidence that Dhoni is there and he will certainly take his team home but unfortunately this time he didn't and this happened on the grandest occasion in world cricket.
 
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Once and great finisher.
Once a great fnisher with his trademark 6
Once a great world cup winning captain.

He tried his best unfortunately his best in this tournament was not enough, today the pressure was immensely on and who better to soak in than Dhoni, but New Zealand were on a mission today after getting India 6-3 its always impossible to come back from that on a pitch like that.

I think Dhoni did what he could but it is time for him to hang up the gloves so to speak. Can't hate him for everything he has achieved in Indian Cricket and one of the greatest captains too.

Hope the media and fans are soft on him and remember him for the player he was not the player he has become.
 
Saj said:
I don't buy this he was playing his role and doing it for the team by steadying one hand.

The guy built pressure on Pandya who got out, then he put pressure on Jadeja who lost his wicket.

Dhoni was leaving balls he should have hit, playing balls back to the bowler with no intention.

Every time the camera went on Kohli when Dhoni played a dot-ball, you could see the frustration on Kohli's face.

Very poor and strange innings.
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Pandya built pressure on himself by scoring 2 runs off 17 balls against Santner when Dhoni was still in the change room.

Dhoni was playing his role quite well today.

Unfortunate that he got dismissed by the run out of the tournament.

If 20 runs were needed off the last over - which was going to be bowled by Neesham - and Dhoni was at the crease, I know whom I would have bet on.
 
Was good for 3-4 years at the start of his career.
Was made to look good by Yuvraj Raina (and of course the top order) till 2013-14.
Very rarely I have seen someone loose that many matches for his team.
 
ak619 said:
Pandya built pressure on himself by scoring 2 runs off 17 balls against Santner when Dhoni was still in the change room.

Dhoni was playing his role quite well today.

Unfortunate that he got dismissed by the run out of the tournament.

If 20 runs were needed off the last over - which was going to be bowled by Neesham - and Dhoni was at the crease, I know whom I would have bet on.
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Who has told you that if 31 runs are remaining in the last two overs, you have played your role?
If you actually to some stats and probability you will learn that the match was 100% lost even before his dismissal.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="it" dir="ltr">Hasta la vista, Dhoni &#55356;&#57263; <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CWC19?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#CWC19</a> <a href="https://t.co/TWxbKULjCQ">pic.twitter.com/TWxbKULjCQ</a></p>— ICC (@ICC) <a href="https://twitter.com/ICC/status/1149013112605028357?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 10, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

What a rocket by Guptill :bow:
 
Abdullah719 said:
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="it" dir="ltr">Hasta la vista, Dhoni &#55356;&#57263; <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CWC19?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#CWC19</a> <a href="https://t.co/TWxbKULjCQ">pic.twitter.com/TWxbKULjCQ</a></p>— ICC (@ICC) <a href="https://twitter.com/ICC/status/1149013112605028357?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 10, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

What a rocket by Guptill :bow:
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Brilliant fielder.
 
He should have retired after 2015 WC itself. Was done by even then. Hope this prolonging senior culture ends with him.
 
Would India have won if Dhoni wasn’t run out?
 
He was smelling the bat and it didn’t smell good that’s why he came in to bat after pandya and pant. But still he is unselfish because even with such a bad smelling bat he came out to bat


Haters gonna hate
 
Slog said:
Would India have won if Dhoni wasn’t run out?
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We might or might not have but won't have died wondering what if muppets like Kohli had given chances to someone far more deserving to represent India in this WC!
 
Dhoni is destroying his legacy just like kapil dev did, by playing too long!!
Sachin also played well past his sell by date, but indians have some weird love connection with him!!!
Guess what saves sachin is he won the last world cup he played in and didn't play in the next one, so couldn't be blamed for india's failure!
Same can't be said for dhoni!!!
 
To be fair, unlike the England game, yesterday Dhoni was doing exactly what he has always done in such situations- take the game as deep as possible and make the opposition blink. At the end it was a test of nerves and pretty much a game of bluff between the two Indian batsmen and Williamson. Williamson took a big gamble by bowling out Boult in the 48th and holding back his two most inexperienced bowlers till the end. Dhoni was most probably holding back for the Neesham over but Kane's gamble upset his planning. He might've still pulled it off had he played the final over looking at how nervous Neesham seemed to be. Can't really blame him for yesterday's loss. The real culprits were the FTBs at the top and the overrated hacks in the middle order.
 
amvbfm said:
To be fair, unlike the England game, yesterday Dhoni was doing exactly what he has always done in such situations- take the game as deep as possible and make the opposition blink. At the end it was a test of nerves and pretty much a game of bluff between the two Indian batsmen and Williamson. Williamson took a big gamble by bowling out Boult in the 48th and holding back his two most inexperienced bowlers till the end. Dhoni was most probably holding back for the Neesham over but Kane's gamble upset his planning. He might've still pulled it off had he played the final over looking at how nervous Neesham seemed to be. Can't really blame him for yesterday's loss. The real culprits were the FTBs at the top and the overrated hacks in the middle order.
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To be honest, Martin Guptill with that rocket like accurate throw against one of the fastest and best runners between the wickets won the game for NZ. He totally unexpectedly disrupted Dhoni's habitual take the game as late as possible plan and end the game with a few lusty blows at the end
 
Slog said:
Would India have won if Dhoni wasn’t run out?
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Yes, he does it by his own way. Somehow turns the game during the finishing overs even though earlier he may not be hitting well. 25 off 10 balls is not that too much. He knows how to take this.

It is his way simply, hard to find logics with it but he had done it in past and many times, so obviously till Dhoni there, we all still had hopes.
 
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Savak said:
To be honest, Martin Guptill with that rocket like accurate throw against one of the fastest and best runners between the wickets won the game for NZ. He totally unexpectedly disrupted Dhoni's habitual take the game as late as possible plan and end the game with a few lusty blows at the end
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Without taking anything away from Guptill's throw I'd still trace it back to Williamson's gamble on bowling Boult in the 48th and getting Jadeja in the process. 30 from 12 with both Jadeja and Dhoni against Ferguson and Neesham could have been a totally different match and then we might have been blaming Williamson for not holding back Boult. Even the Dhoni runout might not have happened if Jadeja had played out Boult for a single. But then that is all just hindsight, my real point was that contrary to popular opinion, Dhoni's planning and the way he executed it cannot be faulted. Like always, he was playing probabilities in shutting out Boult and Henry and waiting for Neesham. In my opinion he played a pretty good innings.
 
Savak said:
To be honest, Martin Guptill with that rocket like accurate throw against one of the fastest and best runners between the wickets won the game for NZ. He totally unexpectedly disrupted Dhoni's habitual take the game as late as possible plan and end the game with a few lusty blows at the end
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So when was the last time Dhoni chased 31 in 2 overs as you are calling it habitual.
To make things easier for you, I will take 25 or more in the last 2 overs.
Thanks for the list.
 
Ab Fan said:
Yes, he does it by his own way. Somehow turns the game during the finishing overs even though earlier he may not be hitting well. 25 off 10 balls is not that too much. He knows how to take this.

It is his way simply, hard to find logics with it but he had done it in past and many times, so obviously till Dhoni there, we all still had hopes.
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Same question to you then, did he already won a match chain 31 in two overs in his 15 years long career?
 
By the moment 31 runs were remaining in the last 2 overs Dhoni had lost the match for India.
 
Mobashir said:
Same question to you then, did he already won a match chain 31 in two overs in his 15 years long career?
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Yes. Multiple times.

Off the top of my head I remember he did in in Australia against Australia in 2012 and in WI against Sri Lanka in 2013.

I am sure there are more that in missing.
 
I think the game was already over when Dhoni was runout. They left too many for that Neesham's over that never came. Game was dusted when Henry just gave 5 runs and Boult followed up with a great over next. However it was because of Dhoni they came close. I thought NZ would wrap India up by 150 but it was the classic Dhoni dogfight that ensured India came close. A lot of ifs and buts but NZ deserves the win the way they bowled upfront and Dhoni deserved to retire with this innings. legacy untarnished with the last fight till the end. That's what Dhoni is to India. He won many games for India this way and it almost worked but was just too many wickets upfront. Champion player with nerves of steel that almost stole the game from NZ. Indian fans won't find a clutch player like him again. Great end to a great champion.
 
should have retired when in 2015 he coulldnt do it against Aussies... he buckled against us in 2017 as well... cant remember the sparky innings from him for a long long time....
 
Asian players just never know when to say farewell.

So few leave at the right time. Instead they hang around, trying to performl ike they once did, instead of moving on and giving others a chance.
 
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