Hindu nationalists push to rename Taj Mahal city Agravan

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Hindu nationalists push to rename Taj Mahal city Agravan


Hardliners are pushing to rename the city of Agra, home to the Taj Mahal, on the grounds that it had an ancient Hindu name that predated its better-known Muslim heritage.

Agra is the latest target of Hindu nationalists seeking to erase the area’s Mughal influence. Several cities and sites have been renamed since Narendra Modi’s Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) took control of Uttar Pradesh in 2017. The state is governed by the firebrand Hindu cleric Yogi Adityanath.

After activists petitioned Mr Adityanath to rename Agra as Agravan a team of university professors began delving into the city’s ancient roots. Local officials insist that the name Agra has been mentioned in historical sources for almost a thousand years, and that it would be absurd to rename one of India’s globally famous cities.

There are fears that even the Taj Mahal, which draws eight million visitors a year, may not be safe.

Hindu nationalists have long been uncomfortable with the Muslim heritage of India’s most treasured tourist attraction, recognised as one of the seven wonders of the modern world, and have called for it to be renamed. They claim that the 17th century mausoleum, built by the Mughal emperor Shah Jahan for his favourite wife, was originally a Hindu temple that was seized by Muslim conquerors.

In 2017 Mr Adityanath declared that the Taj did “not reflect Indian culture” and had it omitted from a brochure of Uttar Pradesh’s tourist attractions. Visitors were instead directed to other, predominantly Hindu, sites.

The cleric, who had charges of murder and inciting religious hatred dropped this year, has been accused of fanning discrimination against Muslims. His government has renamed several sites, including the city of Allahabad, which now has the ancient Hindu name Prayagraj.

Anyone with evidence that Agra once went by a different name may submit it to the team of academics delving into a tangled web of history and myth. Some claim that a mention of Agravan forest in the Sanskrit epic the Mahabharata is the first written reference to Agra. Others believe the city was once Angira Kshetra, named after a guru of the Hindu deity Krishna.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/...sh-to-rename-taj-mahal-city-agravan-bx0h0tdxr

As I said before, the mosque in Ayodhya was the thin end of the wedge. Shame on the cheerleaders in that thread with Pakistan flag in their avatar who said it was only one mosque and a good deal.

No shame on the Hindu members, they are only reflecting their govt stance so understandable.

 

[Syed1]

I wonder what they hope to achieve by renaming all these cities?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I wonder what they hope to achieve by renaming all these cities?

What do Hindutvas hope to achieve by claiming they invented plastic surgery? Probably an attempt to inflate self worth of Hindus by removing reminders of Mughal empire.

 

[Syed1]

What do Hindutvas hope to achieve by claiming they invented plastic surgery? Probably an attempt to inflate self worth of Hindus by removing reminders of Mughal empire.

Well whatever they do they cannot change the fact that they were ruled over by Muslims for centuries

 

[Technics 1210]

I wonder what they hope to achieve by renaming all these cities?

Nothing other than appeasing their insecurities and victim mentality. Hindus have never really ruled India in all its glory, until now. Though the way things are going, never again! Hindutva will make Nazism look like a love story!

The most fascinating part in all of this are that the world knows it was Muslims who built the Taj Mahal, and as ever, Hindutvas trying to steal the credit for it; just like inventing email in the Jurassic age.

 

[Mesozoic]

But but but British pakistanis are not obsessed with India.

 

[WebGuru]

Meanwhile Ajay Devgan just did a surgical strike on the legacy of Mughal Empire with his upcoming movie check his latest tweet. What's going on with Bollywood these days? trying to portray Mughal and Muslims rulers as barbarians changing the whole history be it Khilji Abdali and now this new movie.

 

[kk1992]

Pretty soon there will be ban on Muslim names, muslim food, muslim everything.

Turning in to a such a petty nation.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Well whatever they do they cannot change the fact that they were ruled over by Muslims for centuries

I don't really see it that way, in my view they were ruled by a superior adminstration in the Mughals and the country advanced a lot during that period. It was a joint venture in which the Indian people were willing participants as the ordinary man saw his fortunes improve and the nation as a whole prosper. Many Hindu writers of the time wrote positively at the time, this current wave of Hindu nationalism is nothing more than history revisionism.

 

[WengerOut]

Well whatever they do they cannot change the fact that they were ruled over by Muslims for centuries

They can portray themselves as the rescuers of Hindu culture from the grasps of foreign influences, to their blind bhakths. As you can imagine, that sells heavily which transforms to brutal majority in the elections. Luckily most of us southies are spared.

 

[troodon]

Mughals and central Asians have ruled Indian subcontinent for almost 800 years. It is a fact and nothing can erase that.

BJP/RSS/VHP can rename all the cities to their original names. But it does not change a thing about history.

 

[WebGuru]

Mughals and central Asians have ruled Indian subcontinent for almost 800 years. It is a fact and nothing can erase that.

BJP/RSS/VHP can rename all the cities to their original names. But it does not change a thing about history.

I remember there was a report where it was mentioned that majority of the top 10 attractions for tourists in India were all built by Mughals.

 

[JaDed]

I wanna talk ill of then but my city did the same nonsense in 1996 [MENTION=143530]Swashbuckler[/MENTION]

Although as per below article it was never called Agravan

https://www.indiatoday.in/india/sto...ra-was-ever-called-agravan-1620641-2019-11-19

 

[JaDed]

I remember there was a report where it was mentioned that majority of the top 10 attractions for tourists in India were all built by Mughals.

Don’t think so..Rajasthan probably has the highest tourism and don’t think they have Mughal architecture as such..

 

[dhump]

They have their priorities sorted I see.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Mughals and central Asians have ruled Indian subcontinent for almost 800 years. It is a fact and nothing can erase that.

BJP/RSS/VHP can rename all the cities to their original names. But it does not change a thing about history.

I liked previous attitude which used to prevail in India where it was considered that India was enriched by having exposure to different cultures. Living in the UK I can tell you I think this country has become far better than it was in the old days when there was a more insular mindset.

Britain tried to hold onto the old country but got left behind by the US in the 20th century when their all encompassing multiculturalism proved far more dynamic and exciting than stuck in the mud Europe.

 

[JaDed]

I liked previous attitude which used to prevail in India where it was considered that India was enriched by having exposure to different cultures. Living in the UK I can tell you I think this country has become far better than it was in the old days when there was a more insular mindset.

Britain tried to hold onto the old country but got left behind by the US in the 20th century when their all encompassing multiculturalism proved far more dynamic and exciting than stuck in the mud Europe.

Politics is made on being great again, the past glories and heritage.

I see UK going down that route in 10 years

 

[troodon]

I remember there was a report where it was mentioned that majority of the top 10 attractions for tourists in India were all built by Mughals.

The Hindu/Buddhist structures in India are so old that most of it is in ruins. Only in South India, some temples survived.

Nature will destroy and will take back everything that was took from it to build.

 

[WebGuru]

Don’t think so..Rajasthan probably has the highest tourism and don’t think they have Mughal architecture as such..

I just found the article it was about muslim rulers not mughals and the article was about revenue generated in 2017/18 and the headline was:

India’s top 5 revenue generating monuments were all built by Muslim rulers

The Taj Mahal and 4 other monuments earned Rs 146.05 crore, more than half the total revenue generated by centrally-protected monuments, in 2017-18.

New Delhi: Fringe Hindu groups and even some BJP leaders may have sought to belittle their significance but official data shows that India’s top five revenue generating monuments were all built by Muslim rulers – the Taj Mahal, Agra Fort, Qutub Minar, Fatehpur Sikri and Red Fort.

While Qutub Minar was built by rulers of the Delhi Sultanate, the rest were constructed by the Mughals.

These five monuments together earned the government Rs 146.05 crore in 2017-18, according Archaeological Survey of India (ASI) data. This is more than half the total revenue of Rs 271.8 crore generated by all centrally-protected monuments.

The Taj Mahal, which has been in the news for all the wrong reasons in recent years, with the Supreme Court last month pulling up the ASI for its poor maintenance, continued to be the highest earner at Rs 56.83 crore.

While some politicians sparked a controversy last year by arguing that the Mughal-era monument did not represent Indian culture, the number of visitors to it, both Indian and foreign, only increased since 2016-17.

A total of 64.58 lakh people visited the Taj Mahal in 2017-18 compared to 50.66 lakh in 2016-17.

Last year, the UP tourism department had even omitted the Taj Mahal, a UNESCO world heritage site, from a brochure listing the state’s principal attractions.

With total earnings of Rs 30.55 crore, Agra Fort built by Mughal emperor Akbar, another UNESCO world heritage site, was the second highest revenue generator in the last financial year.

While the Konark Sun Temple in Odisha came second after the Taj Mahal in terms of number of visitors (32.3 lakh), it generated only Rs 10.06 crore as revenue. This, officials said, is because the temple is mostly popular only with Indian tourists, with 32.21 lakh domestic visitors making the trip last year.

While Indian tourists are charged Rs 30 per head as entry fee to world heritage monuments across the country, foreign tourists have to pay Rs 500 each.

“It is impossible to communalise the entire Indian population through the meaningless political venom spewed by politicians,” said historian S. Irfan Habib, explaining the increase in visitors to the Taj.

“No matter what they say about the Taj Mahal and Red Fort, Indians will continue going there,” he added.


Source: https://theprint.in/india/governanc...uments-were-all-built-by-muslim-rulers/66723/

 

[troodon]

I liked previous attitude which used to prevail in India where it was considered that India was enriched by having exposure to different cultures. Living in the UK I can tell you I think this country has become far better than it was in the old days when there was a more insular mindset.

Britain tried to hold onto the old country but got left behind by the US in the 20th century when their all encompassing multiculturalism proved far more dynamic and exciting than stuck in the mud Europe.

I don't know about UK, but it was a world power already before multiculturalism took over there.

 

[WebGuru]

Politics is made on being great again, the past glories and heritage.

I see UK going down that route in 10 years

"There's nothing in the world more powerful than a good story. Nothing can stop it. No enemy can defeat it" Tyrion Lannister GOT

 

[JaDed]

I just found the article it was about muslim rulers not mughals and the article was about revenue generated in 2017/18 and the headline was:

India’s top 5 revenue generating monuments were all built by Muslim rulers

The Taj Mahal and 4 other monuments earned Rs 146.05 crore, more than half the total revenue generated by centrally-protected monuments, in 2017-18.

New Delhi: Fringe Hindu groups and even some BJP leaders may have sought to belittle their significance but official data shows that India’s top five revenue generating monuments were all built by Muslim rulers – the Taj Mahal, Agra Fort, Qutub Minar, Fatehpur Sikri and Red Fort.

While Qutub Minar was built by rulers of the Delhi Sultanate, the rest were constructed by the Mughals.

These five monuments together earned the government Rs 146.05 crore in 2017-18, according Archaeological Survey of India (ASI) data. This is more than half the total revenue of Rs 271.8 crore generated by all centrally-protected monuments.

The Taj Mahal, which has been in the news for all the wrong reasons in recent years, with the Supreme Court last month pulling up the ASI for its poor maintenance, continued to be the highest earner at Rs 56.83 crore.

While some politicians sparked a controversy last year by arguing that the Mughal-era monument did not represent Indian culture, the number of visitors to it, both Indian and foreign, only increased since 2016-17.

A total of 64.58 lakh people visited the Taj Mahal in 2017-18 compared to 50.66 lakh in 2016-17.

Last year, the UP tourism department had even omitted the Taj Mahal, a UNESCO world heritage site, from a brochure listing the state’s principal attractions.

With total earnings of Rs 30.55 crore, Agra Fort built by Mughal emperor Akbar, another UNESCO world heritage site, was the second highest revenue generator in the last financial year.

While the Konark Sun Temple in Odisha came second after the Taj Mahal in terms of number of visitors (32.3 lakh), it generated only Rs 10.06 crore as revenue. This, officials said, is because the temple is mostly popular only with Indian tourists, with 32.21 lakh domestic visitors making the trip last year.

While Indian tourists are charged Rs 30 per head as entry fee to world heritage monuments across the country, foreign tourists have to pay Rs 500 each.

“It is impossible to communalise the entire Indian population through the meaningless political venom spewed by politicians,” said historian S. Irfan Habib, explaining the increase in visitors to the Taj.

“No matter what they say about the Taj Mahal and Red Fort, Indians will continue going there,” he added.


Source: https://theprint.in/india/governanc...uments-were-all-built-by-muslim-rulers/66723/

Ah ok got it, thanks revenue.

 

[JaDed]

"There's nothing in the world more powerful than a good story. Nothing can stop it. No enemy can defeat it" Tyrion Lannister GOT

Lol I thought that too when Tyrion said that, the elite never care its only dumb masses who do.

 

[Swashbuckler]

Don’t think so..Rajasthan probably has the highest tourism and don’t think they have Mughal architecture as such..

Tamil Nadu is India's number 1 tourist state, has always been both in terms of domestic and international arrivals. Don't want to sound arrogant but when it comes to architectural marvels no other state comes close, be it Rajasthan or UP/Delhi.

 

[Swashbuckler]

I wanna talk ill of then but my city did the same nonsense in 1996 [MENTION=143530]Swashbuckler[/MENTION]

Although as per below article it was never called Agravan

https://www.indiatoday.in/india/sto...ra-was-ever-called-agravan-1620641-2019-11-19

Name change of Madras to Chennai wasn't nonsense. I explained that bit to Cpt Rishwat a while back. Will reproduce my earlier post for your convenience.

Not to bore you but Madras predates the British rule. The fishing hamlet was known as Madrasapattinam around which the city was built. To the south of it was the hamlet of Chennapattinam. British called it Madras because that time the city was in the northern part. After Independence the city grew southwards, more in the area of Chennapattinam. Hence in 1996 the name change to Chennai was done in order to keep up with changes on the ground because majority population moved to the Chennapattinam area and the northern part stopped expanding/developing.

Another reason was that earlier when most of the Southern States were one, it was called Madras State. Linguistic bifurcation happened in the late 1950s and the Tamil speaking portion became Tamil Nadu (Nadu=country). But the rest of India knew all of us as Madrasis, they called all South Indians as Madrasis and it became quite tedious/disrespectful/racist to lump all of us in one category, after all the Southern states all have rich and different cultures and history. To get a clean break from this was another reason why the Dravidian parties decided to let go the term Madras.

Hyderabad won't be changed for 2 reasons. Firstly it is in a state where BJP will find it very tough to come to power. Unlike Kerala/Tamil Nadu I can't rule out the possibility of BJP coming to power there in 50 years time but it is still an uphill battle for them. Secondly the city was founded by a Muslim ruler. In case of Allahabad it was known as Prayag before the Mughal rule. Prayag was/is an important pilgrimage centre for Hindus and finds mention in Hindu religious texts. So the BJP could play the Hindu card here. Will be impossible to do that in Hyderabad because there is no historical evidence.

PM Modi and BJP President Amit Shah are from Gujarat and the most important city there is Ahmedabad. Modi developed Ahmedabad and his stature as an administrator and pro-business politician stems from the transformation of the city to one of our top cities, especially financially. But he won't change its name because Ahmedabad was founded by a Sultan and doesn't have importance in Hinduism. In fact BJP lobbied hard last year to get the Old City of Ahmedabad (Muslim part) the UNESCO World Heritage tag. Judging by that action I don't think BJP will be in a hurry to rename all cities. In South India and Eastern part they have no clout, so forget about that. They can do these stunts only in North and maybe West. North India is a better bet because it is underdeveloped with severe economic problems. Such gimmicks may work there and public (high illiteracy, unemployment) can be more easily distracted. Also the primary targets will be those places renamed or constructed (even allegedly) by Muslim rulers atop Hindu ones. Ayodhya Ram Mandir (in place of Babri Masjid) will be a hot point in the coming years. Similarly places like Varanasi and Vrindavan/Mathura will be flash points because of temple/mosque controversy. Or even places where some BJP stalwart has a connection, like Mughalsarai station renamed after an erstwhile BJP/RSS ideologue.

 

[Slog]

Mughals and central Asians have ruled Indian subcontinent for almost 800 years. It is a fact and nothing can erase that.

BJP/RSS/VHP can rename all the cities to their original names. But it does not change a thing about history.

This.

Besides most Mughals apart from Babar and Humayun were 100% products of what is the indian subcontinent today.

 

[JaDed]

Tamil Nadu is India's number 1 tourist state, has always been both in terms of domestic and international arrivals. Don't want to sound arrogant but when it comes to architectural marvels no other state comes close, be it Rajasthan or UP/Delhi.

You are right Rajashthan is not even top 4

http://www.walkthroughindia.com/offbeat/top-10-visited-states-india-foreign-tourists/

One of the Marvels is Rameshwaram btw which Dmk refuses to recognize, luckily Tamizhans are more broad minded than the politicians, which is what I hoped other states would be like but UP has well nvm my rant.
[MENTION=133397]WebGuru[/MENTION] there is absolutely no Mughal architecture in TN, coz they never ruled there and even the Hinduism is much more purer there no offense to other states but i can absolutely not understand festivals like Karva Chauth and all Bhakti movements.

But [MENTION=143530]Swashbuckler[/MENTION] see the link given by Webguru , maybe TN needs to charge etc but the thing is temples are free charging would be incorrect, so revenue in terms of places remain now but tourists remain high.

 

[Swashbuckler]

I wrote that post last year. Seeing the recent madness, BJP may change Ahmedabad's name to Karnavati but if you go by history present day Ahmedabad area isn't over the Karnavati of Solanki dynasty. But doubt whether BJP cares about history [MENTION=137142]JaDed[/MENTION] , all priorities wrong but should help them win elections.

 

[JaDed]

Name change of Madras to Chennai wasn't nonsense. I explained that bit to Cpt Rishwat a while back. Will reproduce my earlier post for your convenience.

I miss that post if not would had responded to it:

Here are my points on it:

Dravidian parties were in power multiple times but they waited years after bifurcation to make it Chennai , so that is convenient.

Your point of cities being named as per historical context is exactly what Joshilla argued with me on Allahabad, almost same.

Now when you term ******* as racist which it is with how North Indians esp Delhites say it instead of asking that to be criminalized DRAVIDIAN parties let go of it and changed the name is an argument similar to what my brother made and as you can see in this thread that all the insecure Hindus up North want to change.

Now my issues with this is : historical context , everything is part of our history during the era of 1990s 3 cities did it I’m sure you know and all have had similar reason, now British ruled over the lands similar to how Mughals did it jus part and parcel , having insecurity over these things is exactly what the parties do, so I don’t see you of all people and state of TN or Maharashtra which are rich with culture and warrior rulers could support it.

Not to forget the administrative nightmare which you seem to be ok with that too in 90s..

 

[Slog]

I wrote that post last year. Seeing the recent madness, BJP may change Ahmedabad's name to Karnavati but if you go by history present day Ahmedabad area isn't over the Karnavati of Solanki dynasty. But doubt whether BJP cares about history [MENTION=137142]JaDed[/MENTION] , all priorities wrong but should help them win elections.

I’m a bit confused. Why does this act have them win elections or win any sort of support?

For eg. If Nankana sahib or Haripur or Abbotabad etc was renamed to some Muslim sounding name I doubt that would elicit any support in Pakistan.

If this is really considered ‘getting one over Muslims’ or ‘payback’ then it’s really pathetic lol and just shows why their ancestors were whipping boys for centuries.

 

[JaDed]

I wrote that post last year. Seeing the recent madness, BJP may change Ahmedabad's name to Karnavati but if you go by history present day Ahmedabad area isn't over the Karnavati of Solanki dynasty. But doubt whether BJP cares about history [MENTION=137142]JaDed[/MENTION] , all priorities wrong but should help them win elections.

Clearly , this makes more news than say Infosys firing 10k or automobile slowdown or how telecom industries have gone bust!

Everything stays same , same nonsense politicians keep doing and this is inspite of so much net and Information available.

I have come to believe people would believe facts they want to believe, nothing otherwise atleast not the major voting people.

 

[Slog]

This.

Besides most Mughals apart from Babar and Humayun were 100% products of what is the indian subcontinent today.

And to add to that Mughals didn’t even take over from Any ‘Hindu empire’ for there to be such exclusive hatred for Mughals.

Babar overthrew a Muslim empire. Before the Mughals came Muslim empires had been ruling the region for a few centuries

 

[Swashbuckler]

But [MENTION=143530]Swashbuckler[/MENTION] see the link given by Webguru , maybe TN needs to charge etc but the thing is temples are free charging would be incorrect, so revenue in terms of places remain now but tourists remain high.

Yes most of the tourist spots in TN are free or charge very little, there is a devotional aspect when it comes to our sites. We are also not as aggressive in marketing, New Delhi (Congress or BJP) has historically discriminated against South which is unfortunate. There is no comparison when it come to international arrivals, personally I see so many white folk in our temples and they are always awestruck. In your list Maharashtra is second but they have Mumbai which is the financial and entertainment capital of India. UP with all the Mughal monuments and kindly treatment by Centre has lesser arrivals than TN which is a puny state in comparison.Same with Rajasthan or Bengal, or any other South Asian country for that matter. You are a Northie who lived in Chennai, you must understand the difference.

 

[JaDed]

I’m a bit confused. Why does this act have them win elections or win any sort of support?

For eg. If Nankana sahib or Haripur or Abbotabad etc was renamed to some Muslim sounding name I doubt that would elicit any support in Pakistan.

If this is really considered ‘getting one over Muslims’ or ‘payback’ then it’s really pathetic lol and just shows why their ancestors were whipping boys for centuries.

Because you are majority Muslim, what makes a difference in Pak is how pious the person is whether he is going to Haj etc..

Thats why you see the mention of religion so often in Pak speeches, I don’t think Mr.Jinnah would had been able to win elections today if he stood.

Its how different areas deal in politics differently , South India , Maharastra does with language, North India with religion, East with ethnicity and Bengal and Kerala is the most confusing for me as it’s different things for them.

 

[CricketCartoons]

I don't really see it that way, in my view they were ruled by a superior adminstration in the Mughals and the country advanced a lot during that period. It was a joint venture in which the Indian people were willing participants as the ordinary man saw his fortunes improve and the nation as a whole prosper. Many Hindu writers of the time wrote positively at the time, this current wave of Hindu nationalism is nothing more than history revisionism.

It is only since Modi came to power do we hindus started feeling like men again. So understandable that people like you have started to worry. Beware of the hindu awakened to his martial origins and proud of his history.

 

[Swashbuckler]

I’m a bit confused. Why does this act have them win elections or win any sort of support?

For eg. If Nankana sahib or Haripur or Abbotabad etc was renamed to some Muslim sounding name I doubt that would elicit any support in Pakistan.

If this is really considered ‘getting one over Muslims’ or ‘payback’ then it’s really pathetic lol and just shows why their ancestors were whipping boys for centuries.

Pakistan has what 3% non-Muslims? I doubt Hindus or Sikhs there have any influence on elections, this isn't the case in India or Bangladesh (earlier East Pakistan) where there have been many communal clashes. Imagine a Pak province with 20% Ahmedi population and historical grievances or bad blood with majority community, don't you see how dynamics would change? People are tribal by nature and want to be the dominant group. Worse in case of 3rd world countries.

I don't want to make this an Indo-Pak thing but weren't there protests in Pakistan when a chowk in Lahore was going to be named after Bhagat Singh? Many Muslim groups felt it would undermine Pakistan's Islamic character. Bhagat Singh was born in Pakistan, died in Pakistan, ultra-leftist but still many including PPers had issues with a token gesture. Similarly there was a lot of opposition to a Ranjit Singh statue in Lahore fort, it was vandalized I think.

 

[Swashbuckler]

[MENTION=137142]JaDed[/MENTION] if you read my post about Madras' name change it has mostly to do with growth of the city and location of the historical hamlets. Madraspattinam, Chennapattinam predate the colonial era. Some say Chennai refers to Chenna Kesava Perumal Temple. I am not sure, during British rule it was known as Chennapattinam, then Madras but people used both names. This is a bit confusing for me as well because the names Chennai or Madras don't mean anything, they aren't related to the Dravidian movement or ancient/medieval Tamil history. They waited for years because in 90s name changing became a fad I guess.

That ******* bit was just my theory. I don't see any insecurity there, otherwise we would have campaigned for a name from Sangam literature. No communal angle behind the name change of Madras, that isn't the case in Allahabad or Mughalsarai. Unsure about Mumbai or Kolkata but I think locals always pronounced those cities that way, perhaps they can give an explanation.

I don't approve of name changes or the ensuing administrative nightmare but there was no mischievous reason behind it in our case. Things are different now, you and I know what BJP is doing here.

 

[JaDed]

Yes most of the tourist spots in TN are free or charge very little, there is a devotional aspect when it comes to our sites. We are also not as aggressive in marketing, New Delhi (Congress or BJP) has historically discriminated against South which is unfortunate. There is no comparison when it come to international arrivals, personally I see so many white folk in our temples and they are always awestruck. In your list Maharashtra is second but they have Mumbai which is the financial and entertainment capital of India. UP with all the Mughal monuments and kindly treatment by Centre has lesser arrivals than TN which is a puny state in comparison.Same with Rajasthan or Bengal, or any other South Asian country for that matter. You are a Northie who lived in Chennai, you must understand the difference.

I agree, i have a bias toward south, plus great child hood memories, I enjoy the simplicity down south, thats changing sadly.

Also not expecting anything from centre actually helps TN make its own decisions, similar to Andhra.

Look at Bollywood same nonsense, felt like its all about Punjab lol, and now everything is either Maratha warrior or UP..

 

[JaDed]

[MENTION=137142]JaDed[/MENTION] if you read my post about Madras' name change it has mostly to do with growth of the city and location of the historical hamlets. Madraspattinam, Chennapattinam predate the colonial era. Some say Chennai refers to Chenna Kesava Perumal Temple. I am not sure, during British rule it was known as Chennapattinam, then Madras but people used both names. This is a bit confusing for me as well because the names Chennai or Madras don't mean anything, they aren't related to the Dravidian movement or ancient/medieval Tamil history. They waited for years because in 90s name changing became a fad I guess.

That ******* bit was just my theory. I don't see any insecurity there, otherwise we would have campaigned for a name from Sangam literature. No communal angle behind the name change of Madras, that isn't the case in Allahabad or Mughalsarai. Unsure about Mumbai or Kolkata but I think locals always pronounced those cities that way, perhaps they can give an explanation.

I don't approve of name changes or the ensuing administrative nightmare but there was no mischievous reason behind it in our case. Things are different now, you and I know what BJP is doing here.

Its was nit mischievous its political and you are right BJP bit is mischievous coz they alienate prt of population who are citizens of the country whereas the three cities had no intention of that.

 

[Kroll]

Shame on the cheerleaders in that thread with Pakistan flag in their avatar who said it was only one mosque and a good deal.

Don't be too hard on the kids. One day they will outgrow their naivety.

 

[pillionrider]

Bhagat Singh was born in Pakistan, died in Pakistan.

Didn't know this. lol some of the big mouths here believe only in one-ways.

 

[chacha kashmiri]

It is only since Modi came to power do we hindus started feeling like men again. So understandable that people like you have started to worry. Beware of the hindu awakened to his martial origins and proud of his history.

I’m confused about this Hindu awakening
The marathas have always been powerful throughout Muslims rule

Shivaji was one of the most fiercesome opponents
And then obviously there was the Maratha empire right after the end of the Mughal empire with shah alam as the enperor

 

[Technics 1210]

Top investment tip : Buy the Lego Taj Mahal Creator model 10256. More than 5500+ pieces. Once this Hindutva mob destroy all traces Islamic history in India, within 5 years, you can sell 10256 for 100 times the price.

Oh you can buy LED lights for 10256 too! )

 

[Kroll]

After a 1000 years of humiliation, these kind of stories aren't surprising.

 

[PakLFC]

I told you guys this just a few days back of how they will soon demolish the Taj. Indians here have the mouth to point the finger at Pak when by comparison we are welcoming Sikhs to see their holy site. This is not the awakening of Hinduism the religion but Hindutva who can't get over Muslim rule of India. No matter what they do from changing history books to burning Masjid's it continues to haunt them. This news is making no headlines in Pak at all, we don't care! It is the Indian Muslim's who should be worried, very worried.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I don't know about UK, but it was a world power already before multiculturalism took over there.

I am talking about the decline of British empire and why it came about. In the 20th century their influence and power waned, and the USA rose in it's place. Not only military power, but soft power through media and entertainment which shocked and delighted the world with their explosion of multicultural diversity as compared to our old fashioned grey depiction.

British empire was great, but it benefitted the landed gentry, the ordinary Briton was generally poor and lived in miserable conditions. Would we really want to turn the clock back, and would it make Britain a better place today even assuming we had the power to recreate the British empire?

 

[Enlighten]

As I said before, the mosque in Ayodhya was the thin end of the wedge. Shame on the cheerleaders in that thread with Pakistan flag in their avatar who said it was only one mosque and a good deal.

No shame on the Hindu members, they are only reflecting their govt stance so understandable.

The British obsession with India continues.

 

[Enlighten]

After a 1000 years of humiliation, these kind of stories aren't surprising.

Ayodha verdict has taken a toll on our British Pakistani’s

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

The British obsession with India continues.

There is no British obsession with India. How many British people have bothered to learn Hindi as opposed to Indian people learning English?

 

[cricketjoshila]

Well Agra was ok. But names of towns like Bakhtiyarpur that needs to be changed.


The pakistani obsession with India. Whether its a court case or change of the name of the city.

72 years of getting a separate country and they still cant stop talking about India.

There is no reason why India should have places named after foreign invaders.

 

[cricketjoshila]

After a 1000 years of humiliation, these kind of stories aren't surprising.

Humiliation is for those who think that by accepting the culture of the invaders and conquerors, they themselves have become conquerors.

 

[big_gamer007]

Well Agra was ok. But names of towns like Bakhtiyarpur that needs to be changed.


The pakistani obsession with India. Whether its a court case or change of the name of the city.

72 years of getting a separate country and they still cant stop talking about India.

There is no reason why India should have places named after foreign invaders.

Told you the obsession of British Pakistanis with India/Indians is next level. It's like those psycho stalkers who stalk a girl everywhere from real life to social media/internet.

 

[ahmedzee]

I told you guys this just a few days back of how they will soon demolish the Taj. Indians here have the mouth to point the finger at Pak when by comparison we are welcoming Sikhs to see their holy site. This is not the awakening of Hinduism the religion but Hindutva who can't get over Muslim rule of India. No matter what they do from changing history books to burning Masjid's it continues to haunt them. This news is making no headlines in Pak at all, we don't care! It is the Indian Muslim's who should be worried, very worried.

As long as they are earning tourism money over the biggest moghul landmark (aka Taj Mahal), they will never demolish it. However something like jamia masjid could be the next target.

 

[ahmedzee]

Well Agra was ok. But names of towns like Bakhtiyarpur that needs to be changed.


The pakistani obsession with India. Whether its a court case or change of the name of the city.

72 years of getting a separate country and they still cant stop talking about India.

There is no reason why India should have places named after foreign invaders.

If we go by history, India will name cities and monuments after the next bosses, USA and Israel. Invasion doesn’t hve to be literal.

 

[cricketjoshila]

If we go by history, India will name cities and monuments after the next bosses, USA and Israel. Invasion doesn’t hve to be literal.

Unlike Pakistan we do not have bosses.What we have is national interest.

We buy from Russia despite CAATSA and objection from US.

We have relations with Israel while Our PM is awarded by Palestinian,Emirati and Saudi govts.

This is the difference between a country that sells off its interest and the one which doesn't.

 

[andy0204]

Humiliation is for those who think that by accepting the culture of the invaders and conquerors, they themselves have become conquerors.

Who accepted their cultures can you please explain to me?

 

[Captain caveman]

They should rename it chicken tikka masala because thats what i normally get from my local taj mahal.
Just a suggestion.

 

[Captain caveman]

Do these bjp/rss guys know that the taj mahal is short for the MUMTAZ MAHAL?
They need to change that to raj mahal

 

[ahmedzee]

Unlike Pakistan we do not have bosses.What we have is national interest.

We buy from Russia despite CAATSA and objection from US.

We have relations with Israel while Our PM is awarded by Palestinian,Emirati and Saudi govts.

This is the difference between a country that sells off its interest and the one which doesn't.

But history tells us otherwise. From Muslims, to British ti Americans and Israel. They all rule India isn’t it ? Wondering who would make india their slaves next.

 

[kk1992]

But history tells us otherwise. From Muslims, to British ti Americans and Israel. They all rule India isn’t it ? Wondering who would make india their slaves next.

Indians already are to RSS/BJP ideology.

 

[szrana]

To understand the collective Indian Psyche, you need to go back in history...a 1000 years!
For a millennium, Hindus were slaves....first to Muslims, then to British. Suffering from deepest sense of guilt & shame, now their rage erupts in extreme hatred for Muslims & Pakistan.

 

[Technics 1210]

I wonder if RSS-India will rename their country to Hindustan?

They don't have the sand.

There is only one way to defuse Saffron colour, kill it with green.

Ask our resident RSS painter.

 

[Relic]

Next thing you know they'll find a temple under the taj Mahal and will start to break it down too

 

[Technics 1210]

Next thing you know they'll find a temple under the taj Mahal and will start to break it down too

A plausible notion given email was invented during the Jurassic period according to RSSI.

 

[Pakpak]

This is hardly news in Pakistan. And talk of obsession is ironic coming from a RSS supporter on a Pakistani forum,lol

Not only here but go on every Pakistani forum, every portal from newspapers to social media...the comments are full of Indians. The irony of joshilas type....thosuands of posts on a Pakistani portal and we are the ones obsessed.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Not only here but go on every Pakistani forum, every portal from newspapers to social media...the comments are full of Indians. The irony of joshilas type....thosuands of posts on a Pakistani portal and we are the ones obsessed.

Even more ironical, when this is pointed out, it is those views which somehow disappear. Freedom of speech is certainly being redefined according to shifting values.

 

[PakLFC]

As long as they are earning tourism money over the biggest moghul landmark (aka Taj Mahal), they will never demolish it. However something like jamia masjid could be the next target.

Hindu fundo's are so thick that demolishing anything Muslim is all that matters to them. This is why these people are talking of converting it to a Hindu temple now even if it means losing loads of tourists and funds that will come with them.

 

[Mesozoic]

To understand the collective Indian Psyche, you need to go back in history...a 1000 years!
For a millennium, Hindus were slaves....first to Muslims, then to British. Suffering from deepest sense of guilt & shame, now their rage erupts in extreme hatred for Muslims & Pakistan.

Those were different Hindus.. brother.

They were slaves to the invaders and even converted to their faith to escape their taxes and swords. But irony is , now they're gloating as if they were the invaders even after having surnames to remind them of their Hindu past.

I mean it's like all the Fernandos and the de Silvas in Sri Lanka start bragging about Portuguese rule over Buddhist Lankans as if it was their forefathers who ruled. Makes no sense at all.

 

[cricketjoshila]

But history tells us otherwise. From Muslims, to British ti Americans and Israel. They all rule India isn’t it ? Wondering who would make india their slaves next.

When did Israelis or Americans rule India? Is this the history they teach you?

The area that has been enslaved most is the area that is Pakistan. From Greeks to Mauryans to Guptas to various north Indian empires to Muslims to British to US to Arabs to Chinese. All have enslaved that area.

 

[Asim_khan]

Maybe they can start by asking their saviour to change the name of Trump Taj Mahal to Trump Agrabavaranaran retroactively

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

View attachment 97321

Maybe they can start by asking their saviour to change the name of Trump Taj Mahal to Trump Agrabavaranaran retroactively

I don't think so, Trump is literally worshipped by some Indians, God's word is always higher than the average Indian. A picture says more than a thousand words.

 

[Saj]

What will they say next, The Mughals didn't exist!

 

[Professor]

View attachment 97321

Maybe they can start by asking their saviour to change the name of Trump Taj Mahal to Trump Agrabavaranaran retroactively

Wow, I knew Trump was liked in India but had no idea that some literally worshipped him. I guess hatred for Muslims can make people do strange things.

 

[Abdullah719]

Agra is the latest target of Hindu nationalists seeking to erase the area’s Mughal influence. Several cities and sites have been renamed since Narendra Modi’s Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) took control of Uttar Pradesh in 2017. The state is governed by the firebrand Hindu cleric Yogi Adityanath.

After activists petitioned Mr Adityanath to rename Agra as Agravan a team of university professors began delving into the city’s ancient roots. Local officials insist that the name Agra has been mentioned in historical sources for almost a thousand years, and that it would be absurd to rename one of India’s globally famous cities.

There are fears that even the Taj Mahal, which draws eight million visitors a year, may not be safe.

Hindu nationalists have long been uncomfortable with the Muslim heritage of India’s most treasured tourist attraction, recognised as one of the seven wonders of the modern world, and have called for it to be renamed. They claim that the 17th century mausoleum, built by the Mughal emperor Shah Jahan for his favourite wife, was originally a Hindu temple that was seized by Muslim conquerors.

In 2017 Mr Adityanath declared that the Taj did “not reflect Indian culture” and had it omitted from a brochure of Uttar Pradesh’s tourist attractions. Visitors were instead directed to other, predominantly Hindu, sites.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">For my Taj files: Yogi Adityanath, Islamophobic politician from Hindu fundamentalist party, gifts photo of Taj--a Muslim mausoleum covered in Qur'anic inscriptions--to Islamophobic, white nationalist POTUS. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ <a href="https://t.co/z9dw08MNId">pic.twitter.com/z9dw08MNId</a></p>— Yael Rice (@Yael_Rice) <a href="https://twitter.com/Yael_Rice/status/1232012257653071875?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 24, 2020</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Hindu nationalists have long been uncomfortable with the Muslim heritage of India’s most treasured tourist attraction, recognised as one of the seven wonders of the modern world, and have called for it to be renamed. They claim that the 17th century mausoleum, built by the Mughal emperor Shah Jahan for his favourite wife, was originally a Hindu temple that was seized by Muslim conquerors.

Hmmm...I think we might have heard that one before.

Ayodhya 1992 calling..

 

[ahmedzee]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">For my Taj files: Yogi Adityanath, Islamophobic politician from Hindu fundamentalist party, gifts photo of Taj--a Muslim mausoleum covered in Qur'anic inscriptions--to Islamophobic, white nationalist POTUS. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ <a href="https://t.co/z9dw08MNId">pic.twitter.com/z9dw08MNId</a></p>— Yael Rice (@Yael_Rice) <a href="https://twitter.com/Yael_Rice/status/1232012257653071875?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 24, 2020</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

sucks the Hindutva govt can't go back in time and change the whole purpose and construction of Taj Mahal to make it hindu ...lol

 

[Babar_Azam_fan]

Why not just demolish Taj Mahal if you’re so ashamed of Muslim identity and it’s rulers

 

[aukhan]

Why not just demolish Taj Mahal if you’re so ashamed of Muslim identity and it’s rulers

They won't do that. They are greedy and knows the backlash they will get from the world for destroying this historical site.

 

[Bilal7]

Lol. Hindutva goons are the most insecure people in the world.

 

[Slog]

They won't do that. They are greedy and knows the backlash they will get from the world for destroying this historical site.

They don’t care about the backlash. They care about the money they get from it