How British Muslim Drug Dealers Square Their Job with Their Faith

[Adil_94]

https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/how-muslim-drug-dealers-square-their-job-with-their-faith.

Sad that this article covers a lot of guys i know from my local area and i went to school with.

 

[mani1]

Since when were drug dealers religious. The biggest one in West Yorkshire who brought Iron Mike Tyson over to "Pray" at his sons Grave did not even look Muslim nor behave in any way Muslim.

Coincidently that same chaps brother was alledgedly the super grass involved in robbing and setting up the Huddersfield dealer whom was killed by Police.

The only ones I can think of are the lower level ones in areas of Manningham such as Hollings RD or Hannover SQ with beards or BD3 or BD5.

 

[JaDed]

How do they manage to transport the drugs from Asia?Isn't that the fault of British authorities they allowed that to happen?

 

[JaDed]

Since when were drug dealers religious. The biggest one in West Yorkshire who brought Iron Mike Tyson over to "Pray" at his sons Grave did not even look Muslim nor behave in any way Muslim.

Coincidently that same chaps brother was alledgedly the super grass involved in robbing and setting up the Huddersfield dealer whom was killed by Police.

The only ones I can think of are the lower level ones in areas of Manningham such as Hollings RD or Hannover SQ with beards or BD3 or BD5.

I think they are talking about being "selectively religious" and not religious as such.

 

[Adil_94]

[MENTION=396]mani1[/MENTION] They are not religious in conventional sense but they pick and choose certain aspects of the religion they want to follow. Muslim identity and faith is still important to a lot of them even if they arent strictly practising. Like the article says.

 

[Adil_94]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION] would love to hear your thoughts.

 

[Bewal Express]

I also see this in our communities. You see the drug dealers on Fri prayers and then you see them with Prostitutes on the Fri evening. Its a made to measure Islam, where you pick and chose the bits you like or pretend to like and ignore the rest. I find the role of parents galling, quite happy when the cash is rolling in, but apparently is Sakhti( bad luck/fortune) when they get caught.

 

[mani1]

[MENTION=396]mani1[/MENTION] They are not religious in conventional sense but they pick and choose certain aspects of the religion they want to follow. Muslim identity and faith is still important to a lot of them even if they arent strictly practising. Like the article says.

Which aspects do they follow because I know a few of these guys from gyms and nothing about them is religious never pray never fast tatoos all over spend more time in clubs than they do in there familys home etc.
Married to non muslims etc.

Or are you talking about the lower level guys whom are making a few hundred a day etc?

 

[shaz619]

Since when were drug dealers religious. The biggest one in West Yorkshire who brought Iron Mike Tyson over to "Pray" at his sons Grave did not even look Muslim nor behave in any way Muslim.

Coincidently that same chaps brother was alledgedly the super grass involved in robbing and setting up the Huddersfield dealer whom was killed by Police.

The only ones I can think of are the lower level ones in areas of Manningham such as Hollings RD or Hannover SQ with beards or BD3 or BD5.

There are quiet a few who are selectively religious but some who are out of touch with their faith and don't abide by it on any level because they are "going to hell" anyway lol know of a guy who said that to me

 

[shaz619]

Which aspects do they follow because I know a few of these guys from gyms and nothing about them is religious never pray never fast tatoos all over spend more time in clubs than they do in there familys home etc.
Married to non muslims etc.

Or are you talking about the lower level guys whom are making a few hundred a day etc?

lmao you just described someone who I know, he ticks each of those box's

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=396]mani1[/MENTION] They are not religious in conventional sense but they pick and choose certain aspects of the religion they want to follow. Muslim identity and faith is still important to a lot of them even if they arent strictly practising. Like the article says.

Use to know of a few who'd not pray normally but would come for Eid prayer or Jummah at times and donate their "haram money" during the collection in large amounts as the older men looked on in disgust because they know where it came from

 

[shaz619]

I've been on the brink many times and have done things I regret but would never sell drugs or do something which would hurt another human being, so while I understand the root causes which lead these people to do what they do and there are things which can be done to prevent them I don't have as much sympathy. When you're selling drugs to someone, you're potentially leading them on to a path of addiction which they don't recover from and potentially results in death or ruining them for good. Sure they are not forcing people to buy the heroin or coke but they are still accountable.

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION] would love to hear your thoughts.

The writer who has conducted the investigation is correct in many ways, there are good qualities the people have which are often overlooked; I know someone like that to who is a friend from school, not necessarily a bad guy; but what he does is unethical. What we need to make these people understand is that short-term thrills do not last long, inevitably they will get caught and then what? I don't know of a guy who has not been caught, they always say oh I have a family now and am going to change my ways etc but it's a bit like Breaking Bad where they fall in love with the thrill more then anything as did Walter White. They become consumed by the lifestyle.

What we need is excellent teachers in School's who support them on every level and not advocate an idea that there is no such thing as ambition and get them to aim very high, School's are incredibly important because when a kid comes from a deprived background and a family which is broken or no family at all they play a big role in the future of that child and what they become.

There needs to be adequate counselling, support for learning disabilities and mental health; if a School is able to identify various issues at an early stage it can potentially prevent a child from making a bad choice in life; on top of that we need teachers to play up the importance of subjects such as Maths, Science and English; I mean as a kid sitting in a class room, you ought to wonder how on earth is Pythagoras Theorem ever going to help me in life? kids often begin to think it's all a waste of time, sure the kid doesn't need to pursue an academic career and can pursue other endeavours such as apprenticeships or set up a business but a basic education is important and more needs to be done in terms of how that basic education can help the student in life on a practical level.

 

[Bewal Express]

I've been on the brink many times and have done things I regret but would never sell drugs or do something which would hurt another human being, so while I understand the root causes which lead these people to do what they do and there are things which can be done to prevent them I don't have as much sympathy. When you're selling drugs to someone, you're potentially leading them on to a path of addiction which they don't recover from and potentially results in death or ruining them for good. Sure they are not forcing people to buy the heroin or coke but they are still accountable.

Lets call a spade a spade, the reason that people sell drugs is because its easy money, which means flashy cars and girls. I have seen pig ugly guys that became drug dealers and suddenly you see them with good looking(loose morals) girls but at that age nobody cares.
As far as schools go, they do lots of work with kids that may fall into crime but i find that most of the work, however well intentioned, is a waste of time and money. The morals and standards that these children have, are heavily influenced at incredibly young ages by ferel parents who value money over everything else. You can tell kids at risk even at the age of 3 or 4, and unless you advocate eugenics, nothing can be done.

 

[Adil_94]

[MENTION=396]mani1[/MENTION] They wont eat Pork for example. Some will go read Jumma or for Ramadan they will stop dealing for a month and grow a beard and go religious for a bit . They attend Eid Prayer. Observe Muslim/Pakistani Wedding and Funeral rituals.They will send their kids to madrassas to learn Quran even if they arent practising or hardly pray or Quran . I know a few of these type of characters generally small timer dealers. Yes for most part they arent religious but certain parts of the faith or tradition they still observe. Even if it is only a small part. Im not talking about the big timers they are full time in that world and for them religion hardly plays a part only when it comes to Eid u might see them drop a big donation to the disgust of the elders.

 

[Adil_94]

[MENTION=1269]Bewal Express[/MENTION] agree that a lot of the work schools try to do is just not met with enthusiasm or cooperation from a lot of parents who raise their kids with a an eff the world mentality.

 

[KingKhanWC]

I don't understand the point of this thread?

Selling drugs is a sin just like many others. Is there a Muslim out there who is sinless? No matter what sins people do, if they still believe in God, offer prayers(whenever), help others, surely can't be a bad thing. Religion is a private issue, questioning why someone who commits sins can also be a believer makes no sense.

 

[shaz619]

I don't understand the point of this thread?

Selling drugs is a sin just like many others. Is there a Muslim out there who is sinless? No matter what sins people do, if they still believe in God, offer prayers(whenever), help others, surely can't be a bad thing. Religion is a private issue, questioning why someone who commits sins can also be a believer makes no sense.

That's a good point, none of us who practice faith are perfect and religion is something personal; a journey if you will. In that sense we all selectively follow certain aspects while there are others who are a lot better, would be wrong to discourage those who do sin to stop following religion because it could be a way out to and help the person in the long run. I think the main topic of discussion is what can be done so that such folk do not choose the dark path

 

[KingKhanWC]

That's a good point, none of us who practice faith are perfect and religion is something personal; a journey if you will. In that sense we all selectively follow certain aspects while there are others who are a lot better, would be wrong to discourage those who do sin to stop following religion because it could be a way out to and help the person in the long run. I think the main topic of discussion is what can be done so that such folk do not choose the dark path

The faith makes it clear, if you commit sins always go back to God for He is the most merciful. I find it very disturbing those who sit back and make judgements about people when only God can know what's in their hearts. Countless people have changed their lives because the small amount of faith in their hearts was expanded by the grace of God for them to become new different people. It makes more sense to say people who commit sins, whether they are in the open or hidden , should try to keep their belief alive instead of going away from it because they can't reason between both.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I don't understand the point of this thread?

Selling drugs is a sin just like many others. Is there a Muslim out there who is sinless? No matter what sins people do, if they still believe in God, offer prayers(whenever), help others, surely can't be a bad thing. Religion is a private issue, questioning why someone who commits sins can also be a believer makes no sense.

The point of the thread is to show that Muslims are hypocrites and sell drugs.

Obviously not only Muslims sell drugs, people of all faiths or no faith also sell drugs, but maybe Muslims need to be singled out more as they don't renounce their faith openly.

Although maybe the OP starter should try watching The Sopranos or The Godfather where the heads of the Five Families get bumped off while the Corleone grandson is getting Christened.

 

[Adil_94]

[MENTION=43583]KingKhanWC[/MENTION] the point of the thread isnt to say if you sell drugs you arent a Muslim anymore. the article just discusses how drug dealers from a British Pakistani background in particular reconcile aspects of their faith and how they view their own identity with them being drug dealers. Its not to issue a fatwa on them.

 

[shaz619]

The faith makes it clear, if you commit sins always go back to God for He is the most merciful. I find it very disturbing those who sit back and make judgements about people when only God can know what's in their hearts. Countless people have changed their lives because the small amount of faith in their hearts was expanded by the grace of God for them to become new different people. It makes more sense to say people who commit sins, whether they are in the open or hidden , should try to keep their belief alive instead of going away from it because they can't reason between both.

That's a good example, reminds me of someone close to me; was struggling really badly, his head was in a bad mess and he indulged with a bad group of people and would deal on behalf of them. Eventually was caught and spent some time in prison, became closer to god and when he came out was a changed man; spoke to him right after he left and he said to me, man shazzy bear it was the biggest mistake of me life what really hurt me was that I had a young family 2 little kids with one of them being a new born and being away from them really sucked the life out of me because am supposed to lead by example and be there for them. Now he works in a family business and is doing okay which is great to see, very happy to; before he went prison I remember going past him while walking and I said hi a couple of times but man he didn't hear me and looked completely lost, his head wasn't right at all; a lot of these people suffer mental health issues and sought of just soldier it out on their own, plus it's a bit taboo in our communities to and there's a lack of understanding for such conditions.

 

[Adil_94]

[MENTION=48620]Cpt. Rishwat[/MENTION] here you are being overly defensive again. The point isnt to say oh look all Muslim are hypocrites. Its to show how drug dealers of a British Pakistani Muslim background reconcile aspects of their faith with theim being drug dealers. Not once have i said this is exclusive to the Pakistani or Muslim communities. I know it occurs in Latino and Italian American communities in the States in regards to Catholicism and i havent said these drug dealers should give up their faith at all its just highlighting a sociological study on the case of British Pakistani Muslim dealers a And considering a lot of people on here are British Pakistanis i thought itd be relevant to post it.

 

[shaz619]

Many people are hypocrites much like those mentioned in the articles, but demonising them will not solve a problem; in fact that is the issue in itself because humiliation is advocated ahead of rehabilitation whilst we neglect the root causes which lead people to be consumed by such a lifestyle. So with such a lack of understanding, narrow minded views are inevitable and ensure the cycle continues in these inner city regions.

 

[KingKhanWC]

[MENTION=43583]KingKhanWC[/MENTION] the point of the thread isnt to say if you sell drugs you arent a Muslim anymore. the article just discusses how drug dealers from a British Pakistani background in particular reconcile aspects of their faith and how they view their own identity with them being drug dealers. Its not to issue a fatwa on them.

Just as Cpt mentioned, they would reconcile their faith with their activities just as the Cosa Nostra or how Pablo Escabor did. They are no different to people who lend money to others with interest, use illegal labour in their businesses, cheat on their spouses, liars, people who eat instead of fasting. Selling drugs doesn't take you out of the fold of Islam, so I don't see why such people should be singled out when it comes to their faith.

A better discussion would be as mentioned by Shaz619 why people get involved, the pressures of their social environments, mental health issues.. etc..

 

[mani1]

The point of the thread is to show that Muslims are hypocrites and sell drugs.

Obviously not only Muslims sell drugs, people of all faiths or no faith also sell drugs, but maybe Muslims need to be singled out more as they don't renounce their faith openly.

Although maybe the OP starter should try watching The Sopranos or The Godfather where the heads of the Five Families get bumped off while the Corleone grandson is getting Christened.

The way the "Indigenous Christians" and many others go on about the power I.e how judges and politicians are scared and in the pockets of said dealers in Bradford I'm surprised there isn't similar TV shows made about the 5 families of Bradford.

Khan, Shah, Chaudary, Raja and Gujjar

 

[Robert]

I guess it is like the Mafia's relationship with the Catholic church......

 

[godzilla]

are the people who get caught and sent to prison accepted openly in the community afterwards? why are they not ostracised? and out of interest, do the religious leaders in those parts of the country do enough to try to curb immorality like this?

 

[Yossarian]

https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/how-muslim-drug-dealers-square-their-job-with-their-faith.

Sad that this article covers a lot of guys i know from my local area and i went to school with.

Yet another article to blame a religion for the activities of criminals. The article refers to 'Pakistani Muslim drug dealers'. In which case, how come it doesn't refer to the Caribbean background drug dealers or to 'white' drug dealers as 'Christian drug dealers'? Furthermore, they are not 'Pakistani drug dealers', but British drug dealers who happen to be of Pakistani origin - a subtle but important difference.

 

[Yossarian]

are the people who get caught and sent to prison accepted openly in the community afterwards? why are they not ostracised? and out of interest, do the religious leaders in those parts of the country do enough to try to curb immorality like this?

Same question can be applied to criminals of any ethnicity, of any background, of any religious persuation, and any/all types of crimes.
e.g. Whites, blacks, those of Chinese origin, Irish origin, Indian origin, drug dealers, rapists, tax dodgers, thieves, shop lifters, wife beaters,..... whether they be Catholics, Protestants, Jews, Hindus, Sikhs, atheists, ...... etc....etc
The answer is also probably the same.

 

[shaz619]

Same question can be applied to criminals of any ethnicity, of any background, of any religious persuation, and any/all types of crimes.
e.g. Whites, blacks, those of Chinese origin, Irish origin, Indian origin, drug dealers, rapists, tax dodgers, thieves, shop lifters, wife beaters,..... whether they be Catholics, Protestants, Jews, Hindus, Sikhs, atheists, ...... etc....etc
The answer is also probably the same.

All folk after being punished are never quiet accepted again, for example when they apply for jobs they have to point out criminal convictions; upon reading them they are rejected by the employer. Unless they have a decent network in terms of family/friends to help them get going they are at risk of making bad choices or comitting suicide, religious leaders from what I've seen do try to help with their rehabilitation if help is seeked and do not give them the cold shoulder.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

[MENTION=48620]Cpt. Rishwat[/MENTION] here you are being overly defensive again. The point isnt to say oh look all Muslim are hypocrites. Its to show how drug dealers of a British Pakistani Muslim background reconcile aspects of their faith with theim being drug dealers. Not once have i said this is exclusive to the Pakistani or Muslim communities. I know it occurs in Latino and Italian American communities in the States in regards to Catholicism and i havent said these drug dealers should give up their faith at all its just highlighting a sociological study on the case of British Pakistani Muslim dealers a And considering a lot of people on here are British Pakistanis i thought itd be relevant to post it.

It's not being overly defensive on my part any more than it's being overly offensive on yours to keep highlighting these issues. If I provide a wider context and comparison with every other community I would have thought that is useful information and helps give us some perspective on the issue.

 

[Bewal Express]

are the people who get caught and sent to prison accepted openly in the community afterwards? why are they not ostracised? and out of interest, do the religious leaders in those parts of the country do enough to try to curb immorality like this?

The problem with ostracisation is that each family has its own secrets, for example benefit fraud is massive problem in our community with people claiming a range of benefits that they are not entitled to, so its difficult to point fingers without others pointing fingers back.

 

[saeedhk]

British Pakistanis in the news again for the wrong reasons. This is becoming all too common. Truly shameful!

 

[miandadrules]

They rationalise it like everybody else.

Not even those that commit the most heinous of crimes consider themselves to be doing evil deeds. They rationalise it with caveats of doing for the greater good or that they are a victim of their circumstances.

Anything that allows one to continue what they are doing.

 

[Adil_94]

[MENTION=4930]Yossarian[/MENTION] read the article in no way does it say they deal drugs because Islam says so or that Islam is a motivating factor for them to deal drugs. It actually points out that Islamically selling drugs or any intoxicating substances is forbidden and in many Muslim countries there are severe punishments for selling drugs. Its focusing on how these men coming from communities particularly in West Yorkshire where as the stats show in 2013 and 2014 a fifth of convictions for selling Class A drugs were from people from a British Pakistani backgrounf despite them making up only 4.3% of West Yorkshires population. that much more religious and conservative than the mainstream manage to balance their faith and identity with their actions. The article focuses on the root causes of why these men turn this life and the crisis of identity.

 

[godzilla]

Same question can be applied to criminals of any ethnicity, of any background, of any religious persuation, and any/all types of crimes.
e.g. Whites, blacks, those of Chinese origin, Irish origin, Indian origin, drug dealers, rapists, tax dodgers, thieves, shop lifters, wife beaters,..... whether they be Catholics, Protestants, Jews, Hindus, Sikhs, atheists, ...... etc....etc
The answer is also probably the same.

firstly, no it can't. secondly, thats not an answer to my question.

 

[godzilla]

The problem with ostracisation is that each family has its own secrets, for example benefit fraud is massive problem in our community with people claiming a range of benefits that they are not entitled to, so its difficult to point fingers without others pointing fingers back.

understood. that at least makes sense.

as far as I'm concerned, lock them up and throw away the key, I have absolutely no sympathy whatsoever with criminality like this - nor with a community that has no ability to find a moral compass and act upon it.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

British Pakistanis in the news again for the wrong reasons. This is becoming all too common. Truly shameful!

Which side should feel the more shame? The British or the Pakistani? The Punjabi or the Mirpuri? The Muslim or the Hong Kong Pakistani ex pat? There are just so many opportunities to feel shame it's hard to pick one to choose from.

 

[shaz619]

Which side should feel the more shame? The British or the Pakistani? The Punjabi or the Mirpuri? The Muslim or the Hong Kong Pakistani ex pat? There are just so many opportunities to feel shame it's hard to pick one to choose from.

)

True, or the British Jamaican Pakistani's as well that's another option

 

[Yossarian]

firstly, no it can't. secondly, thats not an answer to my question.

Why not? A crime is a crime, a criminal is a criminal, regardless of his/her colour, creed, ethnicity or social class. So why apply a different standard to one group compared to all other groups?

 

[Yossarian]

[MENTION=4930]Yossarian[/MENTION] read the article in no way does it say they deal drugs because Islam says so or that Islam is a motivating factor for them to deal drugs. It actually points out that Islamically selling drugs or any intoxicating substances is forbidden and in many Muslim countries there are severe punishments for selling drugs. Its focusing on how these men coming from communities particularly in West Yorkshire where as the stats show in 2013 and 2014 a fifth of convictions for selling Class A drugs were from people from a British Pakistani backgrounf despite them making up only 4.3% of West Yorkshires population. that much more religious and conservative than the mainstream manage to balance their faith and identity with their actions. The article focuses on the root causes of why these men turn this life and the crisis of identity.

Can't be bothered to read this rant since you so clearly failed to understand the post you're responding to.

 

[godzilla]

Why not? A crime is a crime, a criminal is a criminal, regardless of his/her colour, creed, ethnicity or social class. So why apply a different standard to one group compared to all other groups?

a) I don't see the value of analysing one issue by comparing it to all other issues and so rendering any discussion pointless. thats just a cop out.

b) I think you are right that all crimes in all segments of society ought to be treated by society with a consistent attitude towards criminality. I don't agree that all societies or subsegments of society do view criminality in the same way, some I think do apportion a social repercussion for crimes, others welcome them - for that reason specifically - a comparison of this situation to all others is meaningless, in my opinion.

my original questions is a valid one as a stand alone, it doesn't seek to single out this community in particular, and can be asked of any, but this is a thread on a specific issue.

 

[Adil_94]

[MENTION=4930]Yossarian[/MENTION] read the article and dont jump to conclusions your assertion that this article was somehow blaming Islam for their drug dealing was just way off. But you just chose to make a victim card comment coz you saw Muslim in the headline.

 

[Yossarian]

[MENTION=4930]Yossarian[/MENTION] read the article and dont jump to conclusions your assertion that this article was somehow blaming Islam for their drug dealing was just way off. But you just chose to make a victim card comment coz you saw Muslim in the headline.

I think I'll just prefer to ignore any of your posts I find distasteful rather than responding to them. That is unless they are seen as being abusive in which case I will let the mods deal with them. As you will have already discovered by now.

 

[Saj]

Lock them up for good as they deserve it.

I cannot believe for a minute that their families don't know what they are doing.

I really do fear for the Asian youth and future Asian generations in the UK.