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How can Pakistan win any tournament, when you hardly have any clutch player in the playing XI?

The Bald Eagle

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Besides Naseem Shah we don't have any clutch player in the squad at the moment. Iftikhar Ahmed is a domestic bully, Babar stat padder, Rizwan- a good player but by no means a clutch player. Shaheen and Haris Rauf are new run machines. So in short we don't have many clutch players in our squad at the moment.

Thus it would be futile to think of any tournament triumph. In 1992, you had Inzi, Imran Khan, Javed Miandad, Wasim Akram and half a dozen clutch players. In 2009, you had guys like Gul, Amir etc. In 2017, you had an explosive Fakhar and Hasan Ali. But now even Hasan and Fakhar are pedestrian and no more clutch stuff at all.

So in your opinion, how could we win any tournament with so much mediocracy in our squad?
 
Besides Naseem Shah we don't have any clutch player in the squad at the moment. Iftikhar Ahmed is a domestic bully, Babar stat padder, Rizwan- a good player but by no means a clutch player. Shaheen and Haris Rauf are new run machines. So in short we don't have many clutch players in our squad at the moment.

Thus it would be futile to think of any tournament triumph. In 1992, you had Inzi, Imran Khan, Javed Miandad, Wasim Akram and half a dozen clutch players. In 2009, you had guys like Gul, Amir etc. In 2017, you had an explosive Fakhar and Hasan Ali. But now even Hasan and Fakhar are pedestrian and no more clutch stuff at all.

So in your opinion, how could we win any tournament with so much mediocracy in our squad?
How could we win any tournament with such a mediocre squad?

Spoiler alert: We don't, it's as simple as that.

This new tournament format with the super 8 stages means kudrat ki nizam will no longer like it did in 2022 where we didn't have to face aus, Eng, afg, NZ in the group stages.
 
To be honest even Amir and Imad's inclusion can't change our fate. We need to bring in guys like Arafat Minhas and Ubaid, a bit inexperienced but still have great potential to be the next big guns.
 
To be honest even Amir and Imad's inclusion can't change our fate. We need to bring in guys like Arafat Minhas and Ubaid, a bit inexperienced but still have great potential to be the next big guns.
I have no clue who these 2 are. Never heard of em.
 
I have no clue who these 2 are. Never heard of em.
Bro both are from our U19 side, they had a good tournament there. Arafat also featured recently from KK's side in PSL and displayed a superb performance there. Actually Hunain would be better than ubaid.
 
I remember Nawaz used to be a clutch player and then one day Babar called him his match winner and since then instead of Mohammad Nawaz, he turned into Nawaz Sharif.
 
Naseem is good, but he is no ‘clutch player’. His lack of wickets is something he should definitely work on, but he is our best pace bowler yes.

You can’t have clutch players when you have a severe lack of talent like we do.
 
Naseem is good, but he is no ‘clutch player’. His lack of wickets is something he should definitely work on, but he is our best pace bowler yes.

You can’t have clutch players when you have a severe lack of talent like we do.
He won us matches against Afghanistan in tense situations. Also he did fine against England in final of T20 WC 2023. So i rate him this way. Iftikhar can be the other one if he just consider internationals as domestic stuff.
 
King karlega, King ko Bolo.
I don't even hate babar.

I just don't get why

A) You want a captain who's never won anything to captain and someone who got butchered and exposed badly in the world cup, no one is chating babar babar anymore.

B) why Pakistani fans hold him to such a high pedestal, we are a medicore cricket nation atm, that is a fact. The Kings of cricket Australia views us as a minnow, India (who are Kings as well btw) just view as a money making scheme, we bring money for them but otherwise we are nothing but Moqa Moqa memes to them. And kudrat ki nazam against England and NZ will end soon enough

Here we have people claiming he's World class to global standards yet every top team has 3-4 players in their ranks > him.

Tbf to babar you can claim he's a solid bat for Pakistani standards. He's our best accumulator in a team filled with horrible accumulators.
 
I don't even hate babar.

I just don't get why

A) You want a captain who's never won anything to captain and someone who got butchered and exposed badly in the world cup, no one is chating babar babar anymore.

B) why Pakistani fans hold him to such a high pedestal, we are a medicore cricket nation atm, that is a fact. The Kings of cricket Australia views us as a minnow, India (who are Kings as well btw) just view as a money making scheme, we bring money for them but otherwise we are nothing but Moqa Moqa memes to them. And kudrat ki nazam against England and NZ will end soon enough

Here we have people claiming he's World class to global standards yet every top team has 3-4 players in their ranks > him.

Tbf to babar you can claim he's a solid bat for Pakistani standards. He's our best accumulator in a team filled with horrible accumulators.
lol... That was a sarcastic comment.
 
It’s fair to say Fakhar Zaman is clutch . Has played a memorable and match winning knock in nearly every ICC tournament he has played .
Under rated and under appreciated by far to many on this forum .

CT17 final clutch (Atg knock for Pak)
ICC t20 semi 2021 - Australia - smoked starc
ICC 2023 - New Zealand ( Pakistan’s faster World Cup hundred ). Unbelievable innings .

Can’t get more clutch than that . How he is pedestrian based on the posters comment , when he played that knock again New Zealand less that 6 months ago .
 
It’s fair to say Fakhar Zaman is clutch . Has played a memorable and match winning knock in nearly every ICC tournament he has played .
Under rated and under appreciated by far to many on this forum .

CT17 final clutch (Atg knock for Pak)
ICC t20 semi 2021 - Australia - smoked starc
ICC 2023 - New Zealand ( Pakistan’s faster World Cup hundred ). Unbelievable innings .

Can’t get more clutch than that . How he is pedestrian based on the posters comment , when he played that knock again New Zealand less that 6 months ago .
No doubt, he is a clutch player but at the moment wildly out of touch.
 
It’s fair to say Fakhar Zaman is clutch . Has played a memorable and match winning knock in nearly every ICC tournament he has played .
Under rated and under appreciated by far to many on this forum .

CT17 final clutch (Atg knock for Pak)
ICC t20 semi 2021 - Australia - smoked starc
ICC 2023 - New Zealand ( Pakistan’s faster World Cup hundred ). Unbelievable innings .

Can’t get more clutch than that . How he is pedestrian based on the posters comment , when he played that knock again New Zealand less that 6 months ago .
Because he ain't a part of the babar and misbah clique so posters are biased.

Any poster with a brain knows that fakhar is the greatest Pakistani batsmen produced over the last 10 years when he's on song.

A fully inform fakhar >>>>>>>>>>>> A fully inform babar, its not even a question as to who's superior.

His only downside is how quickly fakhar goes out of form for long periods of time.

But none of his innings are flukes, their innings of pure class shots.
 
Besides Naseem Shah we don't have any clutch player in the squad at the moment. Iftikhar Ahmed is a domestic bully, Babar stat padder, Rizwan- a good player but by no means a clutch player. Shaheen and Haris Rauf are new run machines. So in short we don't have many clutch players in our squad at the moment.

Thus it would be futile to think of any tournament triumph. In 1992, you had Inzi, Imran Khan, Javed Miandad, Wasim Akram and half a dozen clutch players. In 2009, you had guys like Gul, Amir etc. In 2017, you had an explosive Fakhar and Hasan Ali. But now even Hasan and Fakhar are pedestrian and no more clutch stuff at all.

So in your opinion, how could we win any tournament with so much mediocracy in our squad?


I guess we have many clutch players in our domestic circuit who have been grinding in domestic cricket for years but not getting a chance. First things first, PCB is lacking in defining the role of individual players, and then we can make use of clutch players. For example, we have wasted Fakhar Zaman down the order; during the New Zealand tour, we sent Sahibzada Farhan even down to the middle order. Asif Ali, who could be an explosive T20I opener, we wasted him down the order.

So, the main thing is to identify the role of each player and utilize them accordingly. Then, I'm sure there will be plenty of clutch players in the Pakistan cricket team.
 
We have an evolved Babar who is better than Warner, Allen, Salt, Butler, DeQock, Sharma, Jaiswal….

Boy we are ready this time!!
Don't forget he's also an evolved captain. We also have a captain who is better then pointing, Dhoni, Pat Cummings, and Morgan.

Oh but we are at a slight disadvantage as babar has surpassed the likes of Dhoni as a captain but still trails behind Misbah.
 
Don't forget he's also an evolved captain. We also have a captain who is better then pointing, Dhoni, Pat Cummings, and Morgan.

Oh but we are at a slight disadvantage as babar has surpassed the likes of Dhoni as a captain but still trails behind Misbah.
Oh yeah baby evolution personified!

My guy plays 3D chess with Saim Ayub first over moves!
 
It’s fair to say Fakhar Zaman is clutch . Has played a memorable and match winning knock in nearly every ICC tournament he has played .
Under rated and under appreciated by far to many on this forum .

CT17 final clutch (Atg knock for Pak)
ICC t20 semi 2021 - Australia - smoked starc
ICC 2023 - New Zealand ( Pakistan’s faster World Cup hundred ). Unbelievable innings .

Can’t get more clutch than that . How he is pedestrian based on the posters comment , when he played that knock again New Zealand less that 6 months ago .

Because he ain't a part of the babar and misbah clique so posters are biased.

Any poster with a brain knows that fakhar is the greatest Pakistani batsmen produced over the last 10 years when he's on song.

A fully inform fakhar >>>>>>>>>>>> A fully inform babar, its not even a question as to who's superior.

His only downside is how quickly fakhar goes out of form for long periods of time.

But none of his innings are flukes, their innings of pure class shots.
The commentators, and media in general on the world scene really rate Fakhar.
No person in Pakistan is capable of playing the kind of knocks he has . Inshallah more to come .
 
But he will bat at 4 because Hafeez worked it out @hitthestump
Ik you're being sarcastic, but I want to add a comment in case people take what you said literally and at face value.

Guys hafeez was a terrible opener cause he was mostly a spin basher and was god awful at playing swing. When hafeez made his debut he use to bat in the middle and lower order. Misbah the wise promoted him up.

And tbf hafeez use to have a massive ego on batting at the top but overtime he's one of the few cricketers to go from being selfish to eventually playing for the crest on his chest.

Middle order suits him, Fakhar on the other hand has had terrible records at no 4, while at opening, An insong fakhar is superior to any pakistani batsmen produced over the last 15 years, fakhar when he's at peak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mr no 1. It isn't even close.
 
Ik you're being sarcastic, but I want to add a comment in case people take what you said literally and at face value.

Guys hafeez was a terrible opener cause he was mostly a spin basher and was god awful at playing swing. When hafeez made his debut he use to bat in the middle and lower order. Misbah the wise promoted him up.

And tbf hafeez use to have a massive ego on batting at the top but overtime he's one of the few cricketers to go from being selfish to eventually playing for the crest on his chest.

Middle order suits him, Fakhar on the other hand has had terrible records at no 4, while at opening, An insong fakhar is superior to any pakistani batsmen produced over the last 15 years, fakhar when he's at peak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mr no 1. It isn't even close.
From what I remember,

Hafeez was always a jobber opener or number 3 under Inzimam era around 2004-07. I remember he was opening the innings at Rose Bowl in 2006 where he hit one hell of a six against Jon Lewis (England opening swing trundler). He was very poor initially and was dropped, only to re-emerge in 2010 prominently after the England Test horror series, this time under Afridi’s captaincy. He played as an opener with Akmal. He was very decent in his comeback. A bit slow but this was 2010, so it wasn’t a huge deal. But he was giving good opening stands more regularly. In T20 he’s not really evolved as a batsman in the last couple of years as a cricketer, otherwise he was just decent.


He’s of the same mould as Rizwan/Iftikhar etc. Generally an average player who has a big mouth with the more time they get to represent Pakistan and playing a couple of decent knocks.
 
From what I remember,

Hafeez was always a jobber opener or number 3 under Inzimam era around 2004-07. I remember he was opening the innings at Rose Bowl in 2006 where he hit one hell of a six against Jon Lewis (England opening swing trundler). He was very poor initially and was dropped, only to re-emerge in 2010 prominently after the England Test horror series, this time under Afridi’s captaincy. He played as an opener with Akmal. He was very decent in his comeback. A bit slow but this was 2010, so it wasn’t a huge deal. But he was giving good opening stands more regularly. In T20 he’s not really evolved as a batsman in the last couple of years as a cricketer, otherwise he was just decent.


He’s of the same mould as Rizwan/Iftikhar etc. Generally an average player who has a big mouth with the more time they get to represent Pakistan and playing a couple of decent knocks.
I somewhat disagree, he's a far superior bowler to chacha and he's a genuine spin basher, He can hit sixes and accelerate.

His innings against Sri Lanka where he struck a 100 and took 3 wickets + his CT knock are all innings rizzu and chacha can't ever hope to play.

Hafeez is fine as an allrounder in the lower order. I use to hate him to, but over the years I've come to appreciate some of his knocks and his ct 2017 knock.

Rizzu is a goofball and chacha is what would happen if we shoved misbah into a blender and spit him out.
 
I somewhat disagree, he's a far superior bowler to chacha and he's a genuine spin basher, He can hit sixes and accelerate.

His innings against Sri Lanka where he struck a 100 and took 3 wickets + his CT knock are all innings rizzu and chacha can't ever hope to play.

Hafeez is fine as an allrounder in the lower order. I use to hate him to, but over the years I've come to appreciate some of his knocks and his ct 2017 knock.

Rizzu is a goofball and chacha is what would happen if we shoved misbah into a blender and spit him out.

Reflecting on Hafeez's career, he was a solid player. The Ajmal and Hafeez combo in the middle overs was the perfect squeeze. Haven't been able to replicate that since Shadab and whoever else are not as consistent.
 
I somewhat disagree, he's a far superior bowler to chacha and he's a genuine spin basher, He can hit sixes and accelerate.

His innings against Sri Lanka where he struck a 100 and took 3 wickets + his CT knock are all innings rizzu and chacha can't ever hope to play.

Hafeez is fine as an allrounder in the lower order. I use to hate him to, but over the years I've come to appreciate some of his knocks and his ct 2017 knock.

Rizzu is a goofball and chacha is what would happen if we shoved misbah into a blender and spit him out.
Yes that’s because he did eventually fulfil some of his potential with the more time he got to play in 2010, after somewhat giving himself a long run in the game due to good performances.

Otherwise this guy was a lost cause before it. He had quality, that’s for sure. But was always one bad shot decision away from getting out initially. Before 2010, this guy had absolutely no say or sway in the team. Was pretty much mocked as well for trying to be a know it all.

With time, he started to show his Karen colours the more he knew he was becoming a mainstay. This is what I hate in our players generally. They are all fake humble, down to earth people until they become regulars or captains. Some guys who I noticed always were the same people throughout, whether likeable or dislikable:

Shahid Afridi (always mentally 16 years old)
Umar Gul
Abdul Razzaq
Inzimam
Younis Khan
Kamran Akmal (kind of became a drama queen by the end of his career)
Rana Naveed
Mohammad Asif (genuine superstar)
Mohammad Irfan
Rao Iftikhar
Mohammad Sami
Fakhar Zaman

Never saw these guys change their attitude or act like something they were not when they first started off
 
Fakhar Zaman, Naseem, and Imad are the only "clutch" players in the squad. But really it's only Fakhar.

Babar is a real let-down in big-game situations.
 
Fakhar Zaman, Naseem, and Imad are the only "clutch" players in the squad. But really it's only Fakhar.

Babar is a real let-down in big-game situations.
Naseem?

Because he hit sixes and 4s against Fazl Haq Farooqi?
 
Naseem?

Because he hit sixes and 4s against Fazl Haq Farooqi?

I agree but he's at least shown something in those moments.

It's like running next to Azam Khan, you start looking like Usain Bolt even though you're just walking. The true clutch player is probably Fakhar (in form) and that's about it.
 
Nearly every tournament we over perform since 2009. Look at our odds of winning each tournament. We can’t expect to win tournaments consistently until we become strong enough to be one of the favourites going into tournaments.

I think that is a bigger factor than clutch players. We simply most of the time aren’t good enough. Champions trophy we were massive underdogs. 2009 t20 win, we had a poor batting line up.

If our players were more consistent in general we’d naturally perform more often in the clutch moments. It’s because we go in to most games against strong sides as underdogs, we feel the pressure to pull off a miracle/clutch to beat them.
 
You need 5 or 6 players to be on top of their game every tournament. Obviously one guy isn't going to do it.

Pakistan fall short because our best players lose form and fall short at the cusp.

That is Babar's biggest challenge- how to get the best out of his squad? He needs to be a smarter captain now and be focused on the job.
 
Yes that’s because he did eventually fulfil some of his potential with the more time he got to play in 2010, after somewhat giving himself a long run in the game due to good performances.

Otherwise this guy was a lost cause before it. He had quality, that’s for sure. But was always one bad shot decision away from getting out initially. Before 2010, this guy had absolutely no say or sway in the team. Was pretty much mocked as well for trying to be a know it all.

With time, he started to show his Karen colours the more he knew he was becoming a mainstay. This is what I hate in our players generally. They are all fake humble, down to earth people until they become regulars or captains. Some guys who I noticed always were the same people throughout, whether likeable or dislikable:

Shahid Afridi (always mentally 16 years old)
Umar Gul
Abdul Razzaq
Inzimam
Younis Khan
Kamran Akmal (kind of became a drama queen by the end of his career)
Rana Naveed
Mohammad Asif (genuine superstar)
Mohammad Irfan
Rao Iftikhar
Mohammad Sami
Fakhar Zaman

Never saw these guys change their attitude or act like something they were not when they first started off
Fakhar zaman is the sole reason why I hate babar's regime, it reminds of what they did to Abdul razzaq.

Fakhar is the nicest guy in the team, he's beyond humble, never makes comments on the media hyping himself to cloud 9, not even when he struck at 200 he stayed silent,

Onsong he is the best Pakistani batsmen in the last 15 years, Fakhar in form >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Babar and rizwan in form.

He doesn't deserve this treatment that this regime has given him, and any fan who starts throwing numbers on me on how he's a failure as a t20 opener isn't a pakistani fan by any means.

Instead they want players who make stupid comments such as

" I am not happy batting at no 5, I want no 4"

" Their is no doubt that we are the no 1 team in the world"

" I love our pacers, we dominate everybody "

" Hum bhoot bari atei hain, or hum nei kar kei dekhya hai"

Absolutely ridiculous.
 
Fakhar definitely is one of those players who you can call a clutch player but his form has not been good recently. The way he gets out in every game is ridiculous. No improvement to his technique to counter 4-5th stump delivery outside off, but when it is his day, he can smash any bowler of the world may it be Starc, Henry, boult, southee whatever.

Fakhar in form is better than all other Pakistan batters for sure but I think he is just not that consistent.
 
We have an evolved Babar who is better than Warner, Allen, Salt, Butler, DeQock, Sharma, Jaiswal….

Boy we are ready this time!!
Babar and Rizwan are not the world beater but still both are best batsman from Pakistan side
 
Saim will be a "clutch" player. no doubt about it. Potentially Azam too. I have not seen another Pakistan batter with the ability to hit spin with ease even on a slow deck like Azam does. Effortless power.

Iftikhar is terrible against certain kinds of spin . If Azam could get down to any reasonable level of fitness without losing muscle mass, he could be the biggest X factor player along with Saim.

There was a shot he played off Usama in the final where he cover drove on the up against a good length ball on a turgid pitch and there's not a single player in entire PAK system who can bat like that. That was a ridiculously good shot .
 
I somewhat disagree, he's a far superior bowler to chacha and he's a genuine spin basher, He can hit sixes and accelerate.

His innings against Sri Lanka where he struck a 100 and took 3 wickets + his CT knock are all innings rizzu and chacha can't ever hope to play.

Hafeez is fine as an allrounder in the lower order. I use to hate him to, but over the years I've come to appreciate some of his knocks and his ct 2017 knock.

Rizzu is a goofball and chacha is what would happen if we shoved misbah into a blender and spit him out.
I was not that active online back when Hafeez was an opener but I remember him always struggling against the new ball. His record in SENA in Test was abysmal. His SR at as an opener was also horrible. No one can forget that series where Steyn got him out like 100 times in one tour and then after one of the wickets Steyn covered his mouth and started laughing. By 2013, Steyn had dismissed Hafeez 15 times.

I think at the time the perception was that he insisted on playing as an opener as well. Although I’m not sure if this is true or were just rumors at the time. I feel like he could have had a much more successful career if he came out #4 or later because back then so many of our matches were won by choking with spin with him and Ajmal and he played an important role. And he was also a decent hitter down the order.
 
I was not that active online back when Hafeez was an opener but I remember him always struggling against the new ball. His record in SENA in Test was abysmal. His SR at as an opener was also horrible. No one can forget that series where Steyn got him out like 100 times in one tour and then after one of the wickets Steyn covered his mouth and started laughing. By 2013, Steyn had dismissed Hafeez 15 times.

I think at the time the perception was that he insisted on playing as an opener as well. Although I’m not sure if this is true or were just rumors at the time. I feel like he could have had a much more successful career if he came out #4 or later because back then so many of our matches were won by choking with spin with him and Ajmal and he played an important role. And he was also a decent hitter down the order.
Hafeez was a gun player of spin but he was beyond trash as am opener. Although he was always a goat bowler even after he couldn't chuck, his bowling remained goated.

It's mostly he was stubborn to leave the position, but he eventually did and at 4-6 he was pretty good.

He isn't a goat or anything but he ironically superior to our entire joke middle order atm aka chachac, Shadab, nawaz etc.

But yh was never a good opener.
 
I think we have more match winners than we did before. If we’re talking about T20 international, I think a combination of “match winners” along with consistent players is ideal. Economical T20 bowlers help aggressive bowlers because then aggressive bowlers can bowl more attacking lines without as much fear of the RR going crazy if it doesn’t workout. Consistent batsmen give attacking batsmen the confidence to express their true game.

Naseem Shah returning will make Shaheen Shah a better bowler (Although I think Naseem’s wicket taking ability is underrated)

Imad Wasim allows Shadab Khan to be an aggressive leg spinner, Imad has a great economy rate, Shadab has a great strike rate

If you look at PZ’s batting formula, Babar is always the highest run scorer for his team but when you surround him with aggressive batsmen like Saim and Harris then they can turn good totals into great totals.
 
Fakhar is a clutch guy. No technique but on a flat pitch he has 100% clarity once he gets on a roll.

Shadab is probably the most anticlutch player in history. Cometh a big occasion, cometh the lollypop full toss
 
Fakhar is a clutch guy. No technique but on a flat pitch he has 100% clarity once he gets on a roll.

Shadab is probably the most anticlutch player in history. Cometh a big occasion, cometh the lollypop full toss
In the semi final against Australia in the 2021 T20 WC, Shadab took 4/26 in his 4 overs and was our best bowler.

In the final against England in the 2022 T20 WC, Shadab was 1/20 and our most economical bowler. He also scored 20(14).
 
In the semi final against Australia in the 2021 T20 WC, Shadab took 4/26 in his 4 overs and was our best bowler.

In the final against England in the 2022 T20 WC, Shadab was 1/20 and our most economical bowler. He also scored 20(14).

I have wiped memory of that manhoos semifinal
 
Fakhar is a clutch guy. No technique but on a flat pitch he has 100% clarity once he gets on a roll.

Shadab is probably the most anticlutch player in history. Cometh a big occasion, cometh the lollypop full toss
Fakhar will score big in 1 game and then will keep failing with his single digit scores.
 
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