How Chinese investments are capturing Pakistan's economy

[hoshiarpurexpress]

Despite security threats and growing local resentment, China continues to pump billions of dollars into Pakistan and invest in a wide range of sectors.

The multibillion-dollar China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC),announced in 2015, was aimed at overhauling Pakistan's crumbling infrastructure and linking the nation's southern port of Gwadar to western China.

The ambitious project, part of Chinese President Xi Jinping's signature Belt and Road Initiative, was originally estimated to bring in $46 billion (€38.7 billion) of investment into Pakistan. But it's now estimated to have increased to about $65 billion.

During the first phase of CPEC, dozens of projects, mainly related to power and transport infrastructure, were carried out with the help of Chinese money.

The second phase of the initiative, which began last December and comprises 27 projects, has focused on boosting manufacturing capacity and job creation.

And Beijing has been pumping money not only to Pakistan's economic hubs, but also to places like Pakistan-administered Kashmir and northwestern Khyber Pakhtunkhwa province.

Many Pakistanis remain euphoric about the growing Chinese investment in the country, arguing that it's needed to pull Pakistan out of a severe ongoing economic crisis.

Compounding the economic turmoil is the COVID pandemic, which has caused tens of thousands of small businesses to shut down and resulted in over 20 million people losing their jobs.

A 'source of blessing' for the Pakistani economy
Pakistan's Khyber Pakhtunkhwa province was badly hit by Islamist terrorism between 2004 and 2015. Tribal areas in the region were considered a hub for Islamists, including those affiliated with terror outfits like al-Qaida and the Haqqani network.

Given this terrible law and order situation, many Western countries and businesses were not willing to invest in the province.

Qaiser Ahmed Shaikh, a former president of the Karachi Chambers of Commerce, said that China has moved in to fill the gap left by the West.

Anila Khalid of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa Women's Chambers of Commerce believes that Chinese investment is a "source of blessing" for the Pakistani economy.

"First, China invested in our province under CPEC, working on various power and infrastructure projects," she told DW, adding that "now it is also investing in sanitation and other projects."

Undeterred by terror threats
In the southern province of Sindh, Chinese firms have not only completed several CPEC projects but have also bought a 40% stake in the Pakistan Stock Exchange (PSX) company.

Ahmed Chinoy, a prominent businessman from the port city of Karachi and director of the PSX, told DW that the Chinese now have the powers to appoint the managing director, chief financial officer and chief regulatory officer of PSX.

Such appointments, nevertheless, have to be endorsed by the board of directors, he added.

Last June, the stock exchange was attacked by Baluch insurgents, who resent the Chinese investment in the insurgency-hit Baluchistan province.

But Beijing seems to be undeterred by these threats.

Multiple sources told DW that China is planning to buy a power utility in Karachi, which is one of the largest energy companies in the country.

"The Chinese are trying to invest everywhere in Sindh," said a regional government official on condition of anonymity.

He pointed out that recently, sanitation contracts in five districts had been given out to Chinese companies. A number of businessmen, the Karachi Metropolitan Corporation and various trade union members corroborated the official's claim.

Chinese presence in Baluchistan
Baluchistan is Pakistan's largest province of by area, housing the strategically located Gwadar port, which is run by a Chinese company. The province has witnessed a number of terrorist attacks in the last 17 years, some of which directed against the Chinese.

Baluch rebels have been fighting against the Pakistani state in a bid to gain independence for the region. They have often attacked non-Baluch as well as Baluch opponents besides targeting the police and the army.

While the region is considered risky for investment, the Chinese appear to have had no qualms so far in funneling money into the province.

They have been building an airport in Gwadar, along with a number of other major projects.

Rahim Zafar, a resident of the port city and a former adviser to ex-Prime Minister Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto, told DW that the Chinese had set up three factories close to the port of Gwadar, which are not part of CPEC.

They are also involved in fishing business, bringing in deep-sea trawlers, catching fish in a non-sustainable way and depriving the locals of the catch, he added.

Jan Muhammad Buledi, a former spokesman for the Baluchistan government, told DW that the Chinese businessmen are involved in the extraction of marble and minerals through local partners in various parts of the province.

Motivated by cheap labor and high profits?
Lahore-based analyst Ahsan Raza believes that the meeting of Prime Minister Imran Khan with around 100 Chinese investors last year encouraged the Chinese to invest in Pakistan.

"The government has reformed the regulatory framework for the investors in general and Chinese investors in particular. So, they are investing in hospitality, information technology, telecom, consultancy and other sectors," Raza said.

Shaik, the former head of the Karachi Chambers of Commerce, believes cheap labor and high profit margins are driving the Chinese to invest in Pakistan.

"There is also less competition because although the government has announced relaxations and privileges for all investors, Western businesspeople are not ready to invest in Pakistan," he said.

"In addition, the Chinese can repatriate 100% profits as there is no bar for reinvestment in the country," he added.

While some businesspeople in Pakistan claim that Chinese firms are being given preferential treatment when it comes to handing out public contracts, the government rejects such allegations.

Fazal Muhammad Khan, a member of parliament from the ruling party, told DW: "We neither give any preferential treatment to Chinese companies nor are contracts doled out. We take conflicts of interest and other factors into account. And the ground is open for both Chinese and Western companies."

https://www.dw.com/en/china-pakistan-investment-ties/a-58734281

 

[Itachi]

I believe it is by design since IK himself stated that the development of Pakistan is in the hands of China (along those lines in the interview with AL Jazeera).

 

[PakLFC]

Is this a good or bad thing? Not sure.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

Story on the other side of the border
India’s trade with China soared 62% in H1

Bilateral trade in first six months hits $57.48 bn, surpasses pre-pandemic levels

India’s trade with China in the first half of 2021 rose by a record 62.7% — the highest increase among China’s major trade partners — with total two-way trade surpassing the pre-pandemic levels.

Two-way trade after six months was $57.48 billion, the highest on record for the first half. Bilateral trade surged from the year-earlier period, when trade slumped amid the pandemic, and surpassed the $44.72 billion pre-pandemic figure recorded in the first half of 2019, according to data released on Tuesday by China’s General Administration of Customs.

India’s imports, driven by record purchases of medical supplies, reached $42.76 billion this year, up 60.4% and higher than the first-half 2019 figure of $35.8 billion.

India’s exports to China climbed 69.6% to $14.72 billion, also the highest figure on record for the first half of any year. India’s biggest exports to China annually are iron ore, cotton, and other raw material-based commodities. The trade deficit after the first six months stood at $28.04 billion.

he 62.7% increase was the highest among China’s major trading partners. Trade with ASEAN, China’s biggest trading partner, was up 38.2% to $410.75 billion. Trade with the EU reached $388.2 billion, up 37%, while two-way figures with the United States were up 45.7% at $340.8 billion. And while trade with South Africa surged 70%, the total bilateral trade figure of $25.32 billion, less than half India’s, does not place the African country among China’s top 25 trading partners.

The GAC said China’s foreign trade in the first half of 2021 “posted the best performance in history, underpinned by the country’s sustainable economic recovery and strong global demand”, the official Xinhua news agency reported, adding that total trade was up 27.1% to $2.79 trillion.

https://www.thehindu.com/business/indias-trade-with-china-soared-62-in-h1/article35310753.ece

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

I wonder how much is the export of Pakistan to China as compared to imports. If someone finds the data please post it.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

Is this a good or bad thing? Not sure.

Investment is always a good thing for economy. If leveraged correctly the locals can also benefit and learn new tricks in the trade and technology.

 

[PakLFC]

Investment is always a good thing for economy. If leveraged correctly the locals can also benefit and learn new tricks in the trade and technology.

...at the expense of a possible gradual Chinese takeover of our entire economy.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

After IK's govt is over, I would be more than happy if China takes over the entire Pakistan, all government and civil matters in such a away that Pakistan merges into China and become one country. This will be AWESOME !!

Chinese know how to run the govt, civil, business and economy matters better than anyone else. They will reduce corruption and enclose India on the western border as well.

I think it's good for Pakistani people too.
Chinese administered govt will bring everyone over the poverty line, and there will be a lot less cries about inflation. It's a win win situation for Pakistan and China, IMO.
Merge with China and become one country!

 

[Itachi]

...at the expense of a possible gradual Chinese takeover of our entire economy.

There was two ways to come out from the crisis.

The hardest way would have been build by yourself (what India did in 1991).

Or, take a cushion so that you can get back on your feet. As long as IK keeps China in check by implementing no long term commitment, it shouldn't put a threat to Pakistan.

 

[street cricketer]

After IK's govt is over, I would be more than happy if China takes over the entire Pakistan, all government and civil matters in such a away that Pakistan merges into China and become one country. This will be AWESOME !!

Chinese know how to run the govt, civil, business and economy matters better than anyone else. They will reduce corruption and enclose India on the western border as well.

I think it's good for Pakistani people too.
Chinese administered govt will bring everyone over the poverty line, and there will be a lot less cries about inflation. It's a win win situation for Pakistan and China, IMO.
Merge with China and become one country!

There's one stumbling block though.

The Chinese are allergic to religion.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

...at the expense of a possible gradual Chinese takeover of our entire economy.

If played smartly, learn from them and then start local businesses. That is what India did with the IT investment. Pakistan can do the same and improve the manufacturing and IT sector with Chinese partnerships. It is a global world, you need partnerships to foster and grow.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

After IK's govt is over, I would be more than happy if China takes over the entire Pakistan, all government and civil matters in such a away that Pakistan merges into China and become one country. This will be AWESOME !!

Chinese know how to run the govt, civil, business and economy matters better than anyone else. They will reduce corruption and enclose India on the western border as well.

I think it's good for Pakistani people too.
Chinese administered govt will bring everyone over the poverty line, and there will be a lot less cries about inflation. It's a win win situation for Pakistan and China, IMO.
Merge with China and become one country!

What on earth are you talking about ? this will never happen.

 

[PakLFC]

If played smartly, learn from them and then start local businesses. That is what India did with the IT investment. Pakistan can do the same and improve the manufacturing and IT sector with Chinese partnerships. It is a global world, you need partnerships to foster and grow.

We need to build something ourselves too. Learning from someone is good and well providing we don't depend on the Chinese for everything. Already we asked them to clean our streets sometime back then their men were marrying our Christian ladies under false pretences. Hopefully that has been put to an end.

 

[Last Monetarist]

After IK's govt is over, I would be more than happy if China takes over the entire Pakistan, all government and civil matters in such a away that Pakistan merges into China and become one country. This will be AWESOME !!

Chinese know how to run the govt, civil, business and economy matters better than anyone else. They will reduce corruption and enclose India on the western border as well.

I think it's good for Pakistani people too.
Chinese administered govt will bring everyone over the poverty line, and there will be a lot less cries about inflation. It's a win win situation for Pakistan and China, IMO.
Merge with China and become one country!

A true sign of someone that's never done business with the Chinese.

Corruption in Chinese SOEs is rife, backhanders in the shape of facilitation payments to local government officials to obtain accelerated regulatory permits are considered normal business practice.

You can also uncover several cases of embezzlement within these enterprises in the shape of inflated invoicing and management bonuses linked to made-up accounting numbers (although the latter is something that has been prevalent in the west also, of course, but not to the same degree).

The only time corruption becomes a millstone is when it tampers with the interests of the CCP or is contrary to the objectives of someone with significant influence within the Party, which is when the iron fist slams down hard.

 

[mustang]

After IK's govt is over, I would be more than happy if China takes over the entire Pakistan, all government and civil matters in such a away that Pakistan merges into China and become one country. This will be AWESOME !!

Chinese know how to run the govt, civil, business and economy matters better than anyone else. They will reduce corruption and enclose India on the western border as well.

I think it's good for Pakistani people too.
Chinese administered govt will bring everyone over the poverty line, and there will be a lot less cries about inflation. It's a win win situation for Pakistan and China, IMO.
Merge with China and become one country!

Man, whatever special juice you takin' right now ... pass some of that for the rest of us as well! This post reeks of being high/delusional when typing.

Do many other Pakistanis also favor their country being taken over by the Chinese? I'm very curious now.

 

[SpiritOf1903]

Man, whatever special juice you takin' right now ... pass some of that for the rest of us as well! This post reeks of being high/delusional when typing.

Do many other Pakistanis also favor their country being taken over by the Chinese? I'm very curious now.

Uyghurs approve

 

[Colorblind Genius]

A true sign of someone that's never done business with the Chinese.

Corruption in Chinese SOEs is rife, backhanders in the shape of facilitation payments to local government officials to obtain accelerated regulatory permits are considered normal business practice.

You can also uncover several cases of embezzlement within these enterprises in the shape of inflated invoicing and management bonuses linked to made-up accounting numbers (although the latter is something that has been prevalent in the west also, of course, but not to the same degree).

The only time corruption becomes a millstone is when it tampers with the interests of the CCP or is contrary to the objectives of someone with significant influence within the Party, which is when the iron fist slams down hard.

I will be all in if Chinese take over Pakistan and bring the corruption down from 124 to 78.

No govt in Pakistan can do.
We need the Chinese danda.

And then China Pak combined danda will serve well to India

 

[mustang]

I will be all in if Chinese take over Pakistan and bring the corruption down from 124 to 78.

No govt in Pakistan can do.
We need the Chinese danda.

And then China Pak combined danda will serve well to India

Do you like in Pakistan or in the UK? Do many people in your network support this view? I would be very curious to hear from others in this forum too if they support this view.

 

[Itachi]

Do you like in Pakistan or in the UK? Do many people in your network support this view? I would be very curious to hear from others in this forum too if they support this view.

The non native Pakistanis tend to hold extremist views since they don't have any repercussions for whatever happens in Pakistan. And on top of that, there's the issue of identity crisis among brit Pakistanis where they tend to go to extremes in order to show how attached they are with Pakistan (but then again, won't advocate for implementing the same in UK). So they are living the best of the both the worlds.

 

[Napa]

After IK's govt is over, I would be more than happy if China takes over the entire Pakistan, all government and civil matters in such a away that Pakistan merges into China and become one country. This will be AWESOME !!

Chinese know how to run the govt, civil, business and economy matters better than anyone else. They will reduce corruption and enclose India on the western border as well.

I think it's good for Pakistani people too.
Chinese administered govt will bring everyone over the poverty line, and there will be a lot less cries about inflation. It's a win win situation for Pakistan and China, IMO.
Merge with China and become one country!

To be honest, when I read this post I thought the author was being sarcastic.

 

[Muddaser]

Resident Indians showing concern for Pakistan.

Like Bernard Matthews warning the Turkey that Christmas is coming.

 

[Babar_the_Destroyer]

There's one stumbling block though.

The Chinese are allergic to religion.

Not only that ,they not only work like machine ,but the whole envoirnment is stressfull,have been to china and seen that myself

 

[Babar_the_Destroyer]

Resident Indians showing concern for Pakistan.

Like Bernard Matthews warning the Turkey that Christmas is coming.

Coz if they take over you its not just a worry for you but us as well,they are very different from ussr,a sort of capitalist no nonsense regime,yes they have their fare share of perks ,i agree but they have their fair share of downiside as well,the indian and pakistanis are very laid back bunch not sure they will be okay with chinese interfaring ,so clashes are bound to happen ,more so because of difference in ideology,i may be wrong but i feel they are very different socially and ideology wise,compared to both of us,plus they give two hoots about religion while hrre its everything.

 

[Babar_the_Destroyer]

Do you like in Pakistan or in the UK? Do many people in your network support this view? I would be very curious to hear from others in this forum too if they support this view.

Problem ye hai ki wo danda nhi pura bamboo de dete hai,if i am not wrong china has highest number of death penalties.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

Problem ye hai ki wo danda nhi pura bamboo de dete hai,if i am not wrong china has highest number of death penalties.

Ye qome tabhi seedhi hogi. Trust me, there is no other way. We tried it on our own for 70 years and it’s been a continuous decline ever since. It has been getting worse n worse.
If we didn’t learn it by now, we will never learn it.

For our own good, it’s beneficial that we merge into China and let them govern us.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

The non native Pakistanis tend to hold extremist views since they don't have any repercussions for whatever happens in Pakistan. And on top of that, there's the issue of identity crisis among brit Pakistanis where they tend to go to extremes in order to show how attached they are with Pakistan (but then again, won't advocate for implementing the same in UK). So they are living the best of the both the worlds.

You being an Indian, does it bother you that Pakistan merges into China and now you have another long border to share with China on the north western region?

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

You being an Indian, does it bother you that Pakistan merges into China and now you have another long border to share with China on the north western region?

Being and Indian China is bit easier to deal with. All they care about is money and business.
I posted somewhere despite all the ills, India's annual export is 10-15 Billions Dollars to China and it increased 62% in 2021 H1. Pakistan is just plain nuisance without the money.

 

[street cricketer]

Ye qome tabhi seedhi hogi. Trust me, there is no other way. We tried it on our own for 70 years and it’s been a continuous decline ever since. It has been getting worse n worse.
If we didn’t learn it by now, we will never learn it.

For our own good, it’s beneficial that we merge into China and let them govern us.

Not sure if you're joking or not, but Communist Chinese culture is the diametric opposite of desi culture, be it Indian or Pakistani culture. Either you are not as well informed about Chinese history or wildly optimistic about China taking over Pakistan because it would end in nothing but a civil war and disaster.

China in the mid 60s began to regard old chinese culture as the one thing that is the root cause of all their backwardness and began a movement to uproot the "four olds" -Old Ideas, Old Culture, Old Habits, and Old Customs, in the cultural revolution. Basically they began hating their own culture and thinking their old backward thinking was the root cause of all their ills and backwardness that included religion, philosophy, literature and even architecture. It's true that religion and archaic desi culture in some way holds the subcontinent backward too, so their thinking was not necessarily wrong. But how they went about executing it was different, their methods were very very radical - they destroyed all their chinese temples, Ming era architecture and desecrated the tombs of old Ming dynasty emperors who they thought were bourgeoisie and oppressed the lower class (proletariat) in the past. Even old paintings were not spared. And anyone who resisted purging of old culture was killed by mobs. Names got changed, streets were renamed and anything signifying old chinese culture was removed.

In the subcontinent, we absolutely revere our old customs and culture. We pride in our old architecture (classical era temples for hindus and mughal architecture for muslims) and are very religious. Something like what happened in China would never happen in a million years in the subcontinent. Imagine a guy like Mao asking to destroy old Indian architecture, he would get brickbats from everyone in India. It's why I often think it's simplistic when people ask why India couldn't replicate China's success - that's because both countries have completely different cultures and upbringing. An authoritarian government like China can never work in India because we don't like being dictated, a bit lazy and are not as disciplined as the Chinese people to follow the orders of their govt. Forget about something like even remotely similar to what you describe happening in Pakistan. The differences in culture are even more stark than with Indians and Chinese where anyone talking against religion/culture publicly can get one killed.

I know Chinese are allies to Pakistan but if you read some of the views of the Chinese people in some of their forums on the subcontinent as a whole, they think that the subcontinent needs a cultural revolution to uproot our backward beliefs and culture to progress to the next step in development as a region as compared to south east asia and it is our backward culture that keeps India and Pakistan squabbling with each other as enemies and not progressing as countries like China did rapidly in the 80s, 90s and 2000s.

 

[Napa]

Ye qome tabhi seedhi hogi. Trust me, there is no other way. We tried it on our own for 70 years and it’s been a continuous decline ever since. It has been getting worse n worse.
If we didn’t learn it by now, we will never learn it.

For our own good, it’s beneficial that we merge into China and let them govern us.

Be careful about what you wish for.

Are you okay with restaurants being forced to remain open during Ramadan, women being forcibly sterilized, male monitors sleeping in the same bed with women whose husbands have been sent to concentration camps etc.?

 

[Colorblind Genius]

Be careful about what you wish for.

Are you okay with restaurants being forced to remain open during Ramadan, women being forcibly sterilized, male monitors sleeping in the same bed with women whose husbands have been sent to concentration camps etc.?

Not only females but forced sterilization for males too.

One of THE BIGGEST need we have in Pakistan.

Can we control our explosive population growth on our own?
Not in a 100 years no matter which party rules and no matter what kinda educational program you introduce.

Chinese will make it happen for us.

And not sure about sleeping men with women thingy - too much speculation here. I don’t think this is true.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

Not sure if you're joking or not, but Communist Chinese culture is the diametric opposite of desi culture, be it Indian or Pakistani culture. Either you are not as well informed about Chinese history or wildly optimistic about China taking over Pakistan because it would end in nothing but a civil war and disaster.

China in the mid 60s began to regard old chinese culture as the one thing that is the root cause of all their backwardness and began a movement to uproot the "four olds" -Old Ideas, Old Culture, Old Habits, and Old Customs, in the cultural revolution. Basically they began hating their own culture and thinking their old backward thinking was the root cause of all their ills and backwardness that included religion, philosophy, literature and even architecture. It's true that religion and archaic desi culture in some way holds the subcontinent backward too, so their thinking was not necessarily wrong. But how they went about executing it was different, their methods were very very radical - they destroyed all their chinese temples, Ming era architecture and desecrated the tombs of old Ming dynasty emperors who they thought were bourgeoisie and oppressed the lower class (proletariat) in the past. Even old paintings were not spared. And anyone who resisted purging of old culture was killed by mobs. Names got changed, streets were renamed and anything signifying old chinese culture was removed.

In the subcontinent, we absolutely revere our old customs and culture. We pride in our old architecture (classical era temples for hindus and mughal architecture for muslims) and are very religious. Something like what happened in China would never happen in a million years in the subcontinent. Imagine a guy like Mao asking to destroy old Indian architecture, he would get brickbats from everyone in India. It's why I often think it's simplistic when people ask why India couldn't replicate China's success - that's because both countries have completely different cultures and upbringing. An authoritarian government like China can never work in India because we don't like being dictated, a bit lazy and are not as disciplined as the Chinese people to follow the orders of their govt. Forget about something like even remotely similar to what you describe happening in Pakistan. The differences in culture are even more stark than with Indians and Chinese where anyone talking against religion/culture publicly can get one killed.

I know Chinese are allies to Pakistan but if you read some of the views of the Chinese people in some of their forums on the subcontinent as a whole, they think that the subcontinent needs a cultural revolution to uproot our backward beliefs and culture to progress to the next step in development as a region as compared to south east asia and it is our backward culture that keeps India and Pakistan squabbling with each other as enemies and not progressing as countries like China did rapidly in the 80s, 90s and 2000s.

Looks like the “The Chinese methods” are something that are needed in India too.

This is the only way you gonna get rid of radical Hindus.

But yeah, I had a pre-req, which is, “after IK’s govt is over”.
Instead of Maryam or Billo or Fazlur coming back on the helm, I would rather have full Chinese rule taking over Pakistan for a few years.

It’s better for the people, and the voting majority.

They may finally put a value and worth over “Freedom”, that we take for granted.

 

[Local.Dada]

Looks like the “The Chinese methods” are something that are needed in India too.

This is the only way you gonna get rid of radical Hindus.

But yeah, I had a pre-req, which is, “after IK’s govt is over”.
Instead of Maryam or Billo or Fazlur coming back on the helm, I would rather have full Chinese rule taking over Pakistan for a few years.

It’s better for the people, and the voting majority.

They may finally put a value and worth over “Freedom”, that we take for granted.

Let me get this straight, So you would want another country that has a totally different culture from Pakistan or ideology when it comes to religion to take over Pakistan just so that together they can teach a lesson to India?

Instead of giving up the whole
Country, Isn’t it simpler for Pakistan to make some compromises on say Kashmir which seems the only deal breaker between the 2 countries and work closely with a country closer in cultural proximity which would mutually benefit both?

You need to ask yourself if you love Pakistan more or hate india a lot more because that’s how your thinking comes across. Sorry to judge.

 

[street cricketer]

Looks like the “The Chinese methods” are something that are needed in India too.

This is the only way you gonna get rid of radical Hindus.

But yeah, I had a pre-req, which is, “after IK’s govt is over”.
Instead of Maryam or Billo or Fazlur coming back on the helm, I would rather have full Chinese rule taking over Pakistan for a few years.

It’s better for the people, and the voting majority.

They may finally put a value and worth over “Freedom”, that we take for granted.

I'm agnostic, so I couldn't care less if religion is banished from India forever. But not sure if the rest of my countrymen would like it though.

And yeah, banishing religion is certainly not happening in Pakistan. Pakistan could even become developed under China, but then it wouldn't be Pakistan as you know it. It would have a different name and a different flag.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

The non native Pakistanis tend to hold extremist views since they don't have any repercussions for whatever happens in Pakistan. And on top of that, there's the issue of identity crisis among brit Pakistanis where they tend to go to extremes in order to show how attached they are with Pakistan (but then again, won't advocate for implementing the same in UK). So they are living the best of the both the worlds.

The best of both worlds is a great place to be, no doubt about it. I don't know why you keep insisting there is some identity crisis about it.

I for one, welcome our new Chinese overlords.

 

[Muddaser]

Coz if they take over you its not just a worry for you but us as well,they are very different from ussr,a sort of capitalist no nonsense regime,yes they have their fare share of perks ,i agree but they have their fair share of downiside as well,the indian and pakistanis are very laid back bunch not sure they will be okay with chinese interfaring ,so clashes are bound to happen ,more so because of difference in ideology,i may be wrong but i feel they are very different socially and ideology wise,compared to both of us,plus they give two hoots about religion while hrre its everything.

You are worried for us?

Give me a break.

Your biggest wish is to see Pakistan finished. 1971 is a perfect example. One opportunity and you pounced on it. Stop with the concern posts.

Unlike India, China wants to see a developed Pakistan.

 

[Muddaser]

Let me get this straight, So you would want another country that has a totally different culture from Pakistan or ideology when it comes to religion to take over Pakistan just so that together they can teach a lesson to India?

Instead of giving up the whole
Country, Isn’t it simpler for Pakistan to make some compromises on say Kashmir which seems the only deal breaker between the 2 countries and work closely with a country closer in cultural proximity which would mutually benefit both?

You need to ask yourself if you love Pakistan more or hate india a lot more because that’s how your thinking comes across. Sorry to judge.

You need to tell us why you are concerned considering most Indians would love to see Pakistan in 4 pieces or off the map.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

You are worried for us?

Give me a break.

Your biggest wish is to see Pakistan finished. 1971 is a perfect example. One opportunity and you pounced on it. Stop with the concern posts.

Unlike India, China wants to see a developed Pakistan.

Most Indians don't want to see Pakistan finished, their goal is to have a permanently impoverished Pakistan, but one that is strong enough to provide a buffer between them and Afghanistan.

 

[Muddaser]

Most Indians don't want to see Pakistan finished, their goal is to have a permanently impoverished Pakistan, but one that is strong enough to provide a buffer between them and Afghanistan.

Whatever it is. It definitely isn't positive.

Like I said before. Indians showing concern for Pakistan is like Bernard Matthews showing concern for the Turkey.

 

[Local.Dada]

You need to tell us why you are concerned considering most Indians would love to see Pakistan in 4 pieces or off the map.

Firstly speaking for myself I have nothing against Pakistanis.

China taking over Pakistan would not personally effect my life as an Indian living overseas,Indians living in India nor Pakistanis living overseas. The only effect it would have is on Pakistanis living in Pakistan.

You might still ask why is that my concern?

It exactly isn’t but the very fact that those kinds of posts show that people lack all kinds of rationality when they want to diss India that they would want a communist regime take over their home country so that it can teach india a lesson. Ironically most of these folk wouldn’t want to live in a communist country themselves as they prefer living in countries which have a totally opposite philosophy of communism.

Now that kind of hatred definitely concerns me.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Firstly speaking for myself I have nothing against Pakistanis.

China taking over Pakistan would not personally effect my life as an Indian living overseas,Indians living in India nor Pakistanis living overseas. The only effect it would have is on Pakistanis living in Pakistan.

You might still ask why is that my concern?

It exactly isn’t but the very fact that those kinds of posts show that people lack all kinds of rationality when they want to diss India that they would want a communist regime take over their home country so that it can teach india a lesson. Ironically most of these folk wouldn’t want to live in a communist country themselves as they prefer living in countries which have a totally opposite philosophy of communism.

Now that kind of hatred definitely concerns me.

Did you read the article? I didn't see much evidence of local Pakistanis being against Chinese investment. Why makes you think Pakistan will become communist? Are you just pulling random thoughts from thin air?

 

[Colorblind Genius]

I'm agnostic, so I couldn't care less if religion is banished from India forever. But not sure if the rest of my countrymen would like it though.

And yeah, banishing religion is certainly not happening in Pakistan. Pakistan could even become developed under China, but then it wouldn't be Pakistan as you know it. It would have a different name and a different flag.

IMO, the trade is worth it.
I wouldn't mine Pakistan being called "China" and have a Chinese "flag" if it brings all 230 million above the poverty line.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

Let me get this straight, So you would want another country that has a totally different culture from Pakistan or ideology when it comes to religion to take over Pakistan just so that together they can teach a lesson to India?

Instead of giving up the whole
Country, Isn’t it simpler for Pakistan to make some compromises on say Kashmir which seems the only deal breaker between the 2 countries and work closely with a country closer in cultural proximity which would mutually benefit both?

You need to ask yourself if you love Pakistan more or hate india a lot more because that’s how your thinking comes across. Sorry to judge.

So you don't approve "Chinese methods" being deployed into India to wipe out the Radical Hinduism, or you are part of them?

 

[Local.Dada]

IMO, the trade is worth it.
I wouldn't mine Pakistan being called "China" and have a Chinese "flag" if it brings all 230 million above the poverty line.

Firstly China taking over Pakistan doesn’t automatically guarantee poor people of Pakistan will fall below the poverty line. China itself has a lot of poverty and poor people, may be not as much as the subcontinent.

 

[mustang]

Did you read the article? I didn't see much evidence of local Pakistanis being against Chinese investment. Why makes you think Pakistan will become communist? Are you just pulling random thoughts from thin air?

Pakistan may not become communist but it will surely not have the religious freedom that it currently enjoys. A country created with religion as it's identity merging into another country known for suppressing that very religion along with all other religions - this sounds like a very extreme merger. Not sure how it can end well, is the situation in Pakistan so dire right now that people are ok with such a drastic merger with the Chinese overlords?

 

[Babar_the_Destroyer]

Pakistan may not become communist but it will surely not have the religious freedom that it currently enjoys. A country created with religion as it's identity merging into another country known for suppressing that very religion along with all other religions - this sounds like a very extreme merger. Not sure how it can end well, is the situation in Pakistan so dire right now that people are ok with such a drastic merger with the Chinese overlords?

On top of that where views are totally opposite there is bound to be clash,you can have relations with anybody you want atleast be careful about his/her intentions,britishers too came as traders and we all know how that ended ,their is a saying in hindi jo itihas se nhi seekhte wo khud itihas ho jaate hai,investment kisi ki bhi ho but you still has to be watchful.

 

[Babar_the_Destroyer]

So you don't approve "Chinese methods" being deployed into India to wipe out the Radical Hinduism, or you are part of them?

Plz tell me how many supposed radicals have you seen going into other countries shooting innocent,blasting them,ramming trucks,bombing churches,shooting in resturants,2-3 nuts to har jagah hote hi hai,but problem with abrahmic faiths(i apologies if it hurts anyone,but its a fact) is that there lack of acceptence and lack of coexisting with other faiths is way way high then say a dharmic faith,you look at pakistan,afghanistan,saudi,even hardcore christian countries too has same issues,thats because of ideology,i'd say a feeling of superiorty may be,but thats what i have observed.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Pakistan may not become communist but it will surely not have the religious freedom that it currently enjoys. A country created with religion as it's identity merging into another country known for suppressing that very religion along with all other religions - this sounds like a very extreme merger. Not sure how it can end well, is the situation in Pakistan so dire right now that people are ok with such a drastic merger with the Chinese overlords?

You are talking as if China is on the verge of annexing Pakistan. Is that what you believe will happen? Seriously?

 

[Major]

Did you read the article? I didn't see much evidence of local Pakistanis being against Chinese investment. Why makes you think Pakistan will become communist? Are you just pulling random thoughts from thin air?

There were alot of problems that local pakistans have faced with this investment. One issue was that china had made a deal that only chinese employees and companies will be employed for the work of cpec. Many pakistanis hates this as they felt they were being cheated and left out.

Not sure if the army's nlc got contracts or not, but Pakistani civilians did not get hired as contractors.

Lets see after we have companies come up how much control will China be dictating.

 

[mustang]

The best of both worlds is a great place to be, no doubt about it. I don't know why you keep insisting there is some identity crisis about it.

I for one, welcome our new Chinese overlords.

Not only females but forced sterilization for males too.

One of THE BIGGEST need we have in Pakistan.

Can we control our explosive population growth on our own?
Not in a 100 years no matter which party rules and no matter what kinda educational program you introduce.

Chinese will make it happen for us.

And not sure about sleeping men with women thingy - too much speculation here. I don’t think this is true.

After IK's govt is over, I would be more than happy if China takes over the entire Pakistan, all government and civil matters in such a away that Pakistan merges into China and become one country. This will be AWESOME !!

Chinese know how to run the govt, civil, business and economy matters better than anyone else. They will reduce corruption and enclose India on the western border as well.

I think it's good for Pakistani people too.
Chinese administered govt will bring everyone over the poverty line, and there will be a lot less cries about inflation. It's a win win situation for Pakistan and China, IMO.
Merge with China and become one country!

You are talking as if China is on the verge of annexing Pakistan. Is that what you believe will happen? Seriously?

I'm just responding to the comments from Pakistanis (or maybe British Pakistanis) including yourself advocating for Chinese takeover of Pakistan (including forced sterilization of Pakistani men by another poster) and wondering how realistic this is given the conflicting religious outlooks and China's suppression of muslims.

The relevant messages that I'm referring to are quoted above. I'm also wondering if Pakistan's situation is so dire that people actually living in Pakistan are hoping for a Chinese takeover or if this is yet another armchair analysis by British Pakistanis without boots in the ground.

 

[mustang]

There were alot of problems that local pakistans have faced with this investment. One issue was that china had made a deal that only chinese employees and companies will be employed for the work of cpec. Many pakistanis hates this as they felt they were being cheated and left out.

Not sure if the army's nlc got contracts or not, but Pakistani civilians did not get hired as contractors.

Lets see after we have companies come up how much control will China be dictating.

You can bet your next tasty biryani that China will be dictating a lot of control even in their companies. China exerts control even upon companies in China (Alibaba) and they will surely exert immense control in an overseas enterprise achieved through state investments.

 

[Last Monetarist]

or if this is yet another armchair analysis by British Pakistanis without boots in the ground.

I am assuming this is a rhetorical question if ever there was one.

 

[mustang]

I am assuming this is a rhetorical question if ever there was one.

I know, right? I was trying not to make it rhetorical and be open minded to see if any Pakistanis in Pakistan feel this way, since I'm an outsider after all. I would be very surprised if so.

 

[guna]

Pakistan's future is in the hands of China.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I'm just responding to the comments from Pakistanis (or maybe British Pakistanis) including yourself advocating for Chinese takeover of Pakistan (including forced sterilization of Pakistani men by another poster) and wondering how realistic this is given the conflicting religious outlooks and China's suppression of muslims.

The relevant messages that I'm referring to are quoted above. I'm also wondering if Pakistan's situation is so dire that people actually living in Pakistan are hoping for a Chinese takeover or if this is yet another armchair analysis by British Pakistanis without boots in the ground.

I am an armchair analyst, by it's nature these type of forums are always going to be dominated by such types, and I'll happily admit I don't have boots on the ground. Neither do most people on here I'll wager, and the ones that do, don't really represent the common man in Pakistan.

When I advocate a Chinese takeover of Pakistan it's a tongue in cheek response to those who are always moaning on these forums about how bad it is over there. Well if it is, why not become part of the Chinese revolution? Maybe they'll be able to show the useless and corrupt authorities in Pakistan how a country should be run.

 

[Itachi]

You being an Indian, does it bother you that Pakistan merges into China and now you have another long border to share with China on the north western region?

Of course. Pakistan isn't a concern but China is.

Pakistan is like PCB. Makes too much noise but can't translate in to reality.

China is very different.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

Of course. Pakistan isn't a concern but China is.

Pakistan is like PCB. Makes too much noise but can't translate in to reality.

China is very different.

So what if Pakistan becomes China? Wouldn't that be better?

 

[Colorblind Genius]

Pakistan's future is in the hands of China.

And India's future is in the hands of radical Hindus and fascist regimes in the likes of BJP and Modi. I won't be surprised to see Aditiyanath, Yogi becoming the next Indian PM.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

Pakistan may not become communist but it will surely not have the religious freedom that it currently enjoys. A country created with religion as it's identity merging into another country known for suppressing that very religion along with all other religions - this sounds like a very extreme merger. Not sure how it can end well, is the situation in Pakistan so dire right now that people are ok with such a drastic merger with the Chinese overlords?

IMO, this "creating the country in the name of religion" has already changed drastically.
What religion exactly are we talking about? Islam?
And that too in Pakistan?

We are long long way off the track from Islamic guidance.

Probably there are 5% max people left who may be genuinely considered good practicing Muslims.

Rest of the entire country seems to have turned into big time munafiqs.

The mullah has drilled into the brain of masses that Islam is all about worshipping and big rewards (falana wazeefa gives so much rewards and extra naffals guarantee certain number of palaces filled with hoors, and not doing so results in hell, and pants/shalwar above the ankles is sunnah, and beard is sunnah and miswaak is sunnah, and reciting falana wazeefa wipes out all sins and doing umra and hajj cleans up all sins etc) - so in turn, folks have beards and naked ankles and miswaks sticking outta their pockets but in their day to day lives, many, many are dishonest, they are haram khores, speak lies, indulge in all kinds of sins including bacha bazi.

Are we surprised that "THE MUSLIM COUNTRY that was created in the name of religion" ranks 124 on the scale of honesty?

True Islamic guidance that asks us to (together with striving to daily pray 5 mandatory prayers) LIVE THE LIFE OF HONESTY in your day to day matters, where avoiding bribery, avoiding haram khori, avoid lying cheating, deceiving, and being generous, and being forgiving and being polite ARE THE ACTUAL SUNNAHS TO FOLLOW before worrying about growing long beards and exposing ankles.

Large crowds of munafiqs flock towards masjids every Jumma to get all their sins wiped out.

What Islam are we talking about? Haram Khori and corruption has become such an integral part of lives and such a social norm that people just don't see it as a sin. You talk to someone about it in Pakistan and they will take offense.

Chest thumping Ashiqan-e-rasool(saw) are another group of munafiqs that we have to deal with every other day.

IMO, Chinese rule could just better. Otherwise, our Islam is laughable.

 

[Napa]

Not only females but forced sterilization for males too.

One of THE BIGGEST need we have in Pakistan.

Can we control our explosive population growth on our own?
Not in a 100 years no matter which party rules and no matter what kinda educational program you introduce.

Chinese will make it happen for us.

And not sure about sleeping men with women thingy - too much speculation here. I don’t think this is true.

Stuff you don’t like isn’t true, even though it has been published in leading news media. Get over your delusions about the Chinese.

Muslim Ugyhurs are restricted to one child while Han Chinese are encouraged to have 2 or more babies. Same fate awaits the Pakistanis if China takes over Pakistan.

 

[Major]

Stuff you don’t like isn’t true, even though it has been published in leading news media. Get over your delusions about the Chinese.

Muslim Ugyhurs are restricted to one child while Han Chinese are encouraged to have 2 or more babies. Same fate awaits the Pakistanis if China takes over Pakistan.

Nope.

China wont be able to dictate the sociology of Pakistan.

In this country you can rape someone or murder someone and no one will do anything about it. But if someone messes with religion hell fire breaks loose and people march out of their homes to protect islam, as in their minds islam is than in danger.

Thus, while china can control the muslims of their country, they wont be able to make a comment regarding religious things here. And yes, here people think it is important to have more kids.

The problem that exists is how much dictation will china do on the businesses that exist at the port and utilize the cpec infrastructure. Because local contractors were not allowed in the construction, lets see what happens with the running of actual businesses.

 

[mustang]

Nope.

China wont be able to dictate the sociology of Pakistan.

In this country you can rape someone or murder someone and no one will do anything about it. But if someone messes with religion hell fire breaks loose and people march out of their homes to protect islam, as in their minds islam is than in danger.

Thus, while china can control the muslims of their country, they wont be able to make a comment regarding religious things here. And yes, here people think it is important to have more kids.

The problem that exists is how much dictation will china do on the businesses that exist at the port and utilize the cpec infrastructure. Because local contractors were not allowed in the construction, lets see what happens with the running of actual businesses.

I would guess a lot of control/dictation given CCP's past data points about protecting their business and strategic interests.

 

[mustang]

IMO, this "creating the country in the name of religion" has already changed drastically.
What religion exactly are we talking about? Islam?
And that too in Pakistan?

We are long long way off the track from Islamic guidance.

Probably there are 5% max people left who may be genuinely considered good practicing Muslims.

Rest of the entire country seems to have turned into big time munafiqs.

The mullah has drilled into the brain of masses that Islam is all about worshipping and big rewards (falana wazeefa gives so much rewards and extra naffals guarantee certain number of palaces filled with hoors, and not doing so results in hell, and pants/shalwar above the ankles is sunnah, and beard is sunnah and miswaak is sunnah, and reciting falana wazeefa wipes out all sins and doing umra and hajj cleans up all sins etc) - so in turn, folks have beards and naked ankles and miswaks sticking outta their pockets but in their day to day lives, many, many are dishonest, they are haram khores, speak lies, indulge in all kinds of sins including bacha bazi.

Are we surprised that "THE MUSLIM COUNTRY that was created in the name of religion" ranks 124 on the scale of honesty?

True Islamic guidance that asks us to (together with striving to daily pray 5 mandatory prayers) LIVE THE LIFE OF HONESTY in your day to day matters, where avoiding bribery, avoiding haram khori, avoid lying cheating, deceiving, and being generous, and being forgiving and being polite ARE THE ACTUAL SUNNAHS TO FOLLOW before worrying about growing long beards and exposing ankles.

Large crowds of munafiqs flock towards masjids every Jumma to get all their sins wiped out.

What Islam are we talking about? Haram Khori and corruption has become such an integral part of lives and such a social norm that people just don't see it as a sin. You talk to someone about it in Pakistan and they will take offense.

Chest thumping Ashiqan-e-rasool(saw) are another group of munafiqs that we have to deal with every other day.

IMO, Chinese rule could just better. Otherwise, our Islam is laughable.

Some very interesting points here. But let me ask you this - are you not holding Pakistan with unfair higher standards towards ideal religious adherence? Which country/religious group follows such ideal standards today? Christians in western countries are not true Christians. Hindus in India/Nepal are not true Hindus and Buddhists in Burma/Sri Lanka/Thailand are not true Buddhists. Jewish people in Israel are not ideal model Jewish people. Same for muslims in Saudi and Iran.

So why the unfair high ideal standard only for the muslims in Pakistan? End of the day no group in the world follows their religion in an ideal way with perfect morals. Everyone's halo is corrupt, right?

 

[Napa]

Nope.

China wont be able to dictate the sociology of Pakistan.

In this country you can rape someone or murder someone and no one will do anything about it. But if someone messes with religion hell fire breaks loose and people march out of their homes to protect islam, as in their minds islam is than in danger.

Thus, while china can control the muslims of their country, they wont be able to make a comment regarding religious things here. And yes, here people think it is important to have more kids.

The problem that exists is how much dictation will china do on the businesses that exist at the port and utilize the cpec infrastructure. Because local contractors were not allowed in the construction, lets see what happens with the running of actual businesses.

Don’t underestimate the power of communist dictatorships. Both religion and communist dictatorships are very powerful forces.

Stalin absolutely crushed religious opposition, including Islam. If the Communist Party controls the internal police and the media they are in an unassailable position.

 

[mustang]

I am an armchair analyst, by it's nature these type of forums are always going to be dominated by such types, and I'll happily admit I don't have boots on the ground. Neither do most people on here I'll wager, and the ones that do, don't really represent the common man in Pakistan.

When I advocate a Chinese takeover of Pakistan it's a tongue in cheek response to those who are always moaning on these forums about how bad it is over there. Well if it is, why not become part of the Chinese revolution? Maybe they'll be able to show the useless and corrupt authorities in Pakistan how a country should be run.

Well maybe it really is that bad over there if the people actually living there are commenting that way. With 44% kids dropping out of even primary school (even if you generously accept madrassa education as proper education), it seems dystopian level bad. Equally interesting for me is that none of the posters want to comment/discuss this issue in that relevant thread. Perhaps the truth is too discomforting.

This is the issue with armchair opinions without boots in the ground. Without knowing the extent and severity of such issue over the long run it is easy to wish for Pakistan to invest in sports for olympic medals or clamor for more military aggression towards enemies.

India/Nepal/Sri Lanka/Bangladesh/Bhutan are all at less than 5% while Pakistan seems to be on par with the likes of Somalia, Central African Republic, Syria etc.

Pakistan desperately needs to invest in education but it has no money. Maybe that is one of the factors for them to bow down to a religion hating CCP to find some way out.

 

[Major]

Don’t underestimate the power of communist dictatorships. Both religion and communist dictatorships are very powerful forces.

Stalin absolutely crushed religious opposition, including Islam. If the Communist Party controls the internal police and the media they are in an unassailable position.

Nope, I assume that you dont understand the religious fanatics of our country.
You stop religion here, anyone person from Pakistan who is close enough to the dictator would end up assassinating them.

To control media, police or anyone you have to make sure that its your own people in these departments. You cant control the religion of the Pakistanis. One bad thing or anyone one thing that the muslims of Pakistan think is against their religion they will be taking laws in their own hands.

Like i said before, you can rape or kill someone, no one will care, but stop their religion and everyone becomes an assassin here.

Even if you want to control the locals, than for that you have indoctrine a mentality that is free from religion and indoctrining something like that could take up to 80-100 years.

Not as easy as it seem. China cant control the sociology here. Infact, Taliban has a better chance in implementing Sharia than the chinesse implementing any law that might be deemed as anti Islam

 

[Itachi]

So what if Pakistan becomes China? Wouldn't that be better?

For whom?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Some very interesting points here. But let me ask you this - are you not holding Pakistan with unfair higher standards towards ideal religious adherence? Which country/religious group follows such ideal standards today? Christians in western countries are not true Christians. Hindus in India/Nepal are not true Hindus and Buddhists in Burma/Sri Lanka/Thailand are not true Buddhists. Jewish people in Israel are not ideal model Jewish people. Same for muslims in Saudi and Iran.

So why the unfair high ideal standard only for the muslims in Pakistan? End of the day no group in the world follows their religion in an ideal way with perfect morals. Everyone's halo is corrupt, right?

Correct. I have made these same points many times myself.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Well maybe it really is that bad over there if the people actually living there are commenting that way. With 44% kids dropping out of even primary school (even if you generously accept madrassa education as proper education), it seems dystopian level bad. Equally interesting for me is that none of the posters want to comment/discuss this issue in that relevant thread. Perhaps the truth is too discomforting.

This is the issue with armchair opinions without boots in the ground. Without knowing the extent and severity of such issue over the long run it is easy to wish for Pakistan to invest in sports for olympic medals or clamor for more military aggression towards enemies.

India/Nepal/Sri Lanka/Bangladesh/Bhutan are all at less than 5% while Pakistan seems to be on par with the likes of Somalia, Central African Republic, Syria etc.

Pakistan desperately needs to invest in education but it has no money. Maybe that is one of the factors for them to bow down to a religion hating CCP to find some way out.

Well in that case my opinion makes even more sense even without having boots on the ground. If it's really that bad over there, then they should welcome being run more proficiently by China.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

For whom?

For both India and Pakistan.
Pakistan's economic problems will most likely be reduced after it merges with China and become one country, and it's good for India because then you would have walk the walk and talk the talk, something that you said you don't get from Pakistan. You will have all China on your north western border.

 

[Major]

Well in that case my opinion makes even more sense even without having boots on the ground. If it's really that bad over there, then they should welcome being run more proficiently by China.

again why should we run by chinese and why should u have an opinion on our lives? this is like saying if you not happy with something we say deal with or quit the place

 

[mustang]

Well in that case my opinion makes even more sense even without having boots on the ground. If it's really that bad over there, then they should welcome being run more proficiently by China.

You are possibly right when this is looked at in isolation - does it make sense for Pakistan to become a Chinese vassal in order to get more money for critical investments in education.

But reality as we know could be much more complex and nothing is free (especially from CCP). Is the lack of social/religious freedom worth the price to pay? Also as another poster is mentioning in this thread, will the people of Pakistan (who are fiercely independent and loyal to their religion) actually adhere to such a decision when a foreign entity is bound to stamp their religion out (seems like a hard no based on some of the messages in this thread).

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

again why should we run by chinese and why should u have an opinion on our lives? this is like saying if you not happy with something we say deal with or quit the place

It's an opinion, everyone has one, doesn't mean it is going to impact on you. Actually you are one of the ones who complains most about life in Pakistan so maybe you should welcome chance for a change. At the end of the day no one but Pakistani public will decide their own fate.

 

[guna]

And India's future is in the hands of radical Hindus and fascist regimes in the likes of BJP and Modi. I won't be surprised to see Aditiyanath, Yogi becoming the next Indian PM.

What has India got to do with Chinese investments in Pakistan? Makes no sense.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

What has India got to do with Chinese investments in Pakistan? Makes no sense.

lol ... kinda ironic, isn't it?

 

[Itachi]

For both India and Pakistan.
Pakistan's economic problems will most likely be reduced after it merges with China and become one country, and it's good for India because then you would have walk the walk and talk the talk, something that you said you don't get from Pakistan. You will have all China on your north western border.

How will Pakistani economic problems will be reduced? Did hundred years of British rulling on Desi slavery reduced the economic problems?

 

[Itachi]

It's an opinion, everyone has one, doesn't mean it is going to impact on you. Actually you are one of the ones who complains most about life in Pakistan so maybe you should welcome chance for a change. At the end of the day no one but Pakistani public will decide their own fate.

Criticizing a system doesn't mean one is emphasising in abolishing it. You can get angry with your parents but that doesn't necessarily mean you want to leave them.

Well.... May be in western society that holds true but Desi culture is built upon commitments and dedication along with sacrifice even amidst criticism. One aspect that I am really proud of Desi society.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Criticizing a system doesn't mean one is emphasising in abolishing it. You can get angry with your parents but that doesn't necessarily mean you want to leave them.

Well.... May be in western society that holds true but Desi culture is built upon commitments and dedication along with sacrifice even amidst criticism. One aspect that I am really proud of Desi society.

Criticism is useless without solutions. At the moment Chinese are offering solutions, Pakistanis - or other interested parties in the region - can always offer a viable alternative.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

How will Pakistani economic problems will be reduced? Did hundred years of British rulling on Desi slavery reduced the economic problems?

First, I am not talking about slavery.
We are talking about the idea of merging a country with another country.

It happens quite often among business conglomerates. And it’s usually beneficial for both parties. For example, Bayer taking over Monsanto.

However, talking about the British rule, IMO many things were actually better than today. The rule of law n order was much, much better under the British Rule, inflation was non-existence, there was peace, cleanliness, and people didn’t starve.
Hospitals and schools and parks were built for all (that still operate to this date), poor people had access to many facilities. In general there was a very successful system in place that was executed with great success. Masses in general were happy and trusted the government.

What do we have now? A chaos, both in India and Pakistan.
Rampant Corruption everywhere, religious extremism, sky rocketing inflation, a very very weak rule of law that is only for poor n weak people, explosive population growth with no control in sight, lack of housing, clean drinking water, deteriorating infrastructure with no proper maintenance, ultra polluted atmosphere, I mean, I can go on on.
We just made a total mess out of what you may call “Freedom”

 

[mustang]

First, I am not talking about slavery.
We are talking about the idea of merging a country with another country.

It happens quite often among business conglomerates. And it’s usually beneficial for both parties. For example, Bayer taking over Monsanto.

However, talking about the British rule, IMO many things were actually better than today. The rule of law n order was much, much better under the British Rule, inflation was non-existence, there was peace, cleanliness, and people didn’t starve.
Hospitals and schools and parks were built for all (that still operate to this date), poor people had access to many facilities. In general there was a very successful system in place that was executed with great success. Masses in general were happy and trusted the government.

What do we have now? A chaos, both in India and Pakistan.
Rampant Corruption everywhere, religious extremism, sky rocketing inflation, a very very weak rule of law that is only for poor n weak people, explosive population growth with no control in sight, lack of housing, clean drinking water, deteriorating infrastructure with no proper maintenance, ultra polluted atmosphere, I mean, I can go on on.
We just made a total mess out of what you may call “Freedom”

Do you live in Pakistan? You never answered my earlier question. I'm also curious if many Pakistanis in Pakistan agree with your opinions here.

 

[guna]

lol ... kinda ironic, isn't it?

There is nothing ironic in this.