How do opposition players rate a hundred versus Pakistan?

[Billy1999]

Their is a big debate these days about which opposition a player gets a hundred against,So where would players Rate a century against Pakistan?Would it be good,Decent or alright?

Considering a player gets a hundred vs Sri Lanka,Bangladesh,Zimbabwe,India,West indies

We are quick to say that these aren't good attacks and a guy like Tom Latham has majority of his centuries against Pak,Zimbabwe and Bangladesh.

For example Joe Root scored 254 against us at Old Trafford will he rate His 191 against the staffers more then that double because of the bowling calibre.

 

[zarar]

You play cricket at any level, club, county, international. A hundred is a moment to savour. Regardless of the opposition.

Getting a century against a bowling attack such as ours is even more special and I've asked this question to all my friends who are Indian, Bangladeshi, English and even from the Caribbean.

 

[Billy1999]

You play cricket at any level, club, county, international. A hundred is a moment to savour. Regardless of the opposition.

Getting a century against a bowling attack such as ours is even more special and I've asked this question to all my friends who are Indian, Bangladeshi, English and even from the Caribbean.

In other words what I mean is,Do players rate our bowlers highly in Intls

 

[MMHS]

To be honest - not much now. Normally, a player comfortably plays 3/4 innings against PAK, if he is to reach 200. Previously (late 80s to late 00s I can tell), it was like 6/7 innings, BUT those teams had few bowlers who could knock you with a WK only & the 9 fielders to collect balls.

Normally, scoring big innings is toughest against SAF & AUS, because their attack is quality, their all-round attack keeps the pressure on always, fitness/stamina level of their pacers much higher for the 3rd session of the day & they don't drop much. One rare such match that SAF fielders dropped few was at Lord's recently & Root (Poms), actually showed what is routine daily experience for PAK bowlers.

 

[Rayyman]

Pakistan is the hardest team to score a hundred against. Much harder than against HTB Aussies/Saffers or Minnow Bangladeshis.

 

[ipl_fan]

Pakistan is the hardest team to score a hundred against. Much harder than against HTB Aussies/Saffers or Minnow Bangladeshis.

Ya. A run against Pakistan is worth 10 against Aussies and Saffers.

My God what has that one Oval victory done to PP.

 

[Billy1999]

Ya. A run against Pakistan is worth 10 against Aussies and Saffers.

My God what has that one Oval victory done to PP.

In terms of mental strength required

Against Saffers and Aussies,Englishmen if you see of the initial period,You'll get runs,A pak bowler can get you out anytime.

 

[Square Drive]

You just scored against the best team in the world. You are now an ATG.

 

[Ab Fan]

UAE produce flat pattas. So its hard to rate players performing on those pitches and hence innings like Cook's 294 or de Villiers 278 or Williamson 192 or Warner's hundred aren't rated as their best.

However,the pitch does get enough assistance to spinners on 4th and 5th day to produce somewhat result.

Now, Pakistani team is always hard to rate.They will play like minnows when they are favourites and they will play like a top team when they are hailed as underdogs.

 

[Billy1999]

UAE produce flat pattas. So its hard to rate players performing on those pitches and hence innings like Cook's 294 or de Villiers 278 or Williamson 192 or Warner's hundred aren't rated as their best.

However,the pitch does get enough assistance to spinners on 4th and 5th day to produce somewhat result.

Now, Pakistani team is always hard to rate.They will play like minnows when they are favourites and they will play like a top team when they are hailed as underdogs.

I don't mean the pitch,I'm talking about the attack,Will Joe sit and say,I hammered an attack that contained Wahab,Amir,Yasir

 

[Ab Fan]

I don't mean the pitch,I'm talking about the attack,Will Joe sit and say,I hammered an attack that contained Wahab,Amir,Yasir

Well again its more to do with the unpredictability of Pakistani side.

Amir ,in that series, was pretty inconsistent with the ball having a few good spells here or there and those were also messed up thanks to the fielders .

Now, we all know how good Amir can be on his day and same is the case with Yasir although Trentbridge pitch wasnt really suited to Yasir's bowling .

Wahab is same. He can be idiotic one day and explosive the other day.

Joe Root got those three non firing and he himself played one of his best innings because that was one of his most fluent inning he has played.Generally, he loses patience after getting into starts but that was clearly his one of the most determined inning he played.

 

[Billy1999]

Well again its more to do with the unpredictability of Pakistani side.

Amir ,in that series, was pretty inconsistent with the ball having a few good spells here or there and those were also messed up thanks to the fielders .

Now, we all know how good Amir can be on his day and same is the case with Yasir although Trentbridge pitch wasnt really suited to Yasir's bowling .

Wahab is same. He can be idiotic one day and explosive the other day.

Joe Root got those three non firing and he himself played one of his best innings because that was one of his most fluent inning he has played.Generally, he loses patience after getting into starts but that was clearly his one of the most determined inning he played.

Wahab has had the better of Root so many times

 

[Gilly]

Wahab has had the better of Root so many times

3 times Wahab has got the better of Root

88 at Dubai

254 at Manchester

26 at The Oval

Root must have nightmares about Wahab.

 

[Sachin136]

Pakistan is the hardest team to score a hundred against. Much harder than against HTB Aussies/Saffers or Minnow Bangladeshis.

This is not true if you consider centuries scored per match played. http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...5;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

 

[Rayyman]

This is not true if you consider centuries scored per match played. http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...5;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

Yes, bring out random stats.

These numbers don't prove much.

Pakistan was ranked 8th going to CT. We all know how that turned out.

 

[Hitman]

Just imagine what a WC victory would do to such fans. Relax, you won the recent CT, well and good. Remember the same tournament has been won previously by almost all top teams, except England.

 

[Sachin136]

Yes, bring out random stats.

These numbers don't prove much.

Pakistan was ranked 8th going to CT. We all know how that turned out.

Those aren't random stats. You said that Pakistan are the hardest team to score hundreds against (i.e. per match, they have the least number of hundreds scored against them), which isn't true.

"Pakistan was ranked 8th going to CT. We all know how that turned out."

That doesn't have anything to do with this..

 

[coy0607]

one of the three toughest attacks to score a century against at any given time

 

[Ifu Hussain]

In my opinion, a century against any opposition is appreciable.... Getting a hundred against the Pakistani attack makes it more noteworthy....
What I want to know is who u people want as the next Batting Coach of the National Team, as I've heard that Grant Flower's contract won't be extended.... But guys be realistic... Don't suggest the names which the PCB can't afford.... Waiting for ur suggestions....

 

[Ab Fan]

Wahab has had the better of Root so many times

Unfortunately I never saw that happening. Barring Johnson, there isnt anyone yet who has got the better of Root. However, Root has been lucky not to face Steyn in SA and Ashwin/Jadeja on Indian rank turners. He will face Starc and Hazlewood in Aus though.

 

[Billy1999]

3 times Wahab has got the better of Root

88 at Dubai

254 at Manchester

26 at The Oval

Root must have nightmares about Wahab.

Add on the Odi Dismissals

 

[Billy1999]

Normally if a Pak batsman gets a century vs Australia,Saffers,NZ and England it's worth more,Just wanted to know how opposition players rated one against us.

 

[TQ89]

Batsmen rate centuries differently on their opinion. It doesn't depend on countries at all. I don't why you would have this generalization that a batsmen won't rate his innings against pak/india as his favorite or would always be obliged to say that his runs against aus, saffer were the toughest. I still highly rate cooks tons in 2012 series and i am sure he must rank them pretty highly too as he scored them at crunch situations. Same goes for kevin 186 in india, his 150 in srilanka 2012 & smith's 200 in sharjah 2013.

It Depends on lot of factors like the pitch the batsmen scored on, the quality of attack, the pressure applied by the attack & most importantly the match situation ( do or die situations, WC match, tournament finals, tricky test session, test saving innings or counter attack etc).

I read sachin's book & i will give few examples from it. He has mentioned of his personally cherished odi/test innings mentioned in the book. He didn't have any preference as to rate his hundred against one country special or not. He routinely spoke about warne, gillespie, mcgrath that even when he was dominating their bowlers, he would be tested to the last ball of his innings & had to be cautious against them. Same he has spoken about facing hadlee in 1990 tour of NZ & two W's in 1989, dale steyn in 2011. Also WC 2003 innings & 96 titan cup final innings, sharjah innings are mentioned. They were all do or die situations against attacks that were very good and were applying pressure throughout the innings on good pitch and made him fight for his runs.

Batsmen value fighting for runs above everything else.Lot of guys in the 80's talk about their favorite innings as runs scored against WI attack and vice versa lot of guys in 1990's talk about scoring against AUS based on same principle. I remember dean jones said that his personal favorite innings was a 48 he scored in west indies 1984 (not even a half century!!!) cause he really had to grind out runs on tough pitch against a brilliant attack.

 

[Hitman]

Add on the Odi Dismissals

Twice. Once at 63 and once at 89

 

[TheNightWatchman]

Anyone have stats for which team has the lowest 100s scored against them in the last 5 years

 

[Syed1]

Scoring a hundred against the best bowling attack on the face of the planet will always be right up there for most batsmen.

 

[ShadabFakhar]

People need to bear in mind, the difficulty of scoring a hundred against Pakistan has varied due to the turbulent period Pakistani cricket has endured. We've had all sorts of issues that has led to defensive captains, poor bowling choices(Gul and Ifthikar Anjum et al), poor planning and plenty of other reasons. It depends on a series by series basis with Pakistan.

Test series with Asif and Amir spearheading a bowling attack are going to be different from Gul and Irfan the Giant. Future looks bright though so if all goes well with Amir, Hassan and Junaid, the centuries scored against them will be rated very highly.

 

[Billy1999]

Scoring a hundred against the best bowling attack on the face of the planet will always be right up there for most batsmen.

Yeh say a batsmen scored a hundred vs Glenn McGrath,Shane Warne,Gillespie,Lee it would be right up their but you wouldn't rate a century vs Bumrah,Ashwin,Umesh,Pandya,Jadeja that highly(Pakistanis would as its against India and it's double difficult to perform against India no matter how their attack looks like)

 

[Buffet]

Normally it's hardest to score against bowlers if they are bowling in familiar conditions. Individual bowlers like Steyn can turn it on everywhere, but every bowling unit does better in familiar conditions.

Last 5 years of bowling average in home venues





You do rate all runs scored against bowling unit if you score it in their den. Every team, including WI, is giving less than 31 runs per wicket in familiar conditions. SA and India has been hardest place to score in the last 5 , but we can see it's not easy to score even in WI.

If we include Pakistan in UAE then

Pakistani bowling unit in UAE averages 33.38 in the last 5 years.

Going by this, scoring against Pakistan in UAE hs not been too tough when compared to others. Now this is just an aggregate and there will be individual series where results will look different, but then it's an aggregate for all countries.


Anyway, simple trend is that all bowling units do best in their familiar conditions. No one will rate runs against Indians too high when they are bowling outside of India, but if you score in India against India then it's going to be rated high. That's why if a batsman has done well in all venues then it's simply outstanding performance. You have to be really skillful to score against bowlers in their dens and if you score then you do rate those runs pretty high. Exception will be BD and Zim because they give 40 runs per wicket.

That's why all the non-sense about aggregate tons or runs is bit misleading. You have to see if batsman has in in them to score against opposition teams in their home. Aus pitches are good to bat, but still Aus bowlers are not giving more than 30 runs per wicket. That tells us how hard it is to score in Aus for opposition.

Off course, SA batsmen will find it easier in Aus when compared to SL batsmen, but I am just talking over all trend.

 

[Buffet]

Yeh say a batsmen scored a hundred vs Glenn McGrath,Shane Warne,Gillespie,Lee it would be right up their but you wouldn't rate a century vs Bumrah,Ashwin,Umesh,Pandya,Jadeja that highly(Pakistanis would as its against India and it's double difficult to perform against India no matter how their attack looks like)

It's not just about an attack. It's an attack and venue both. India in India is very hard , but they were much easier to score against when they play outside. McGrath,Shane Warne,Gillespie,Lee etc were formidable, but they are a lot harder to score against when they played in Aus. Batsman in unfamiliar condition and then bowler in familiar conditions. That's a huge disadvantage for batsman.

 

[Billy1999]

It's not just about an attack. It's an attack and venue both. India in India is very hard , but they were much easier to score against when they play outside. McGrath,Shane Warne,Gillespie,Lee etc were formidable, but they are a lot harder to score against when they played in Aus. Batsman in unfamiliar condition and then bowler in familiar conditions. That's a huge disadvantage for batsman.

Yes but good attacks get wickets on any surfaces

 

[Adil_94]

most players will treat it like a century against any other team. For an Indian batsman it will mean more naturally becayse of the rivalry. But its not like back in the days of two Ws where a batsman would cherish a century a lil bit more against two ATGs.

im sure if a batsman managed to survive an Amir spell where he has the ball swinging around corners or Yasir when the ball is gripping n turning they will value that century a lil bit more than batting on a flat road.

The signs in CT were good about our LOI bowling attack that it could become a dominant bowling force but atm most of the Pak bowlers bar Yasir in Tests still.need to do it more consistently.

 

[Itachi]

Yes but good attacks get wickets on any surfaces

There's no good attack (the way you are defining it) right now.

Every one wins at home and loses away.

If you talk about past, then we can have a case. Else, it is same for all the top teams.

 

[Buffet]

Yes but good attacks get wickets on any surfaces

All attacks , good or great or average, do a lot better in familiar conditions. Getting wicket is fine, but at what cost? Not many bowling units in entire history have averaged below 31 in all surfaces, but here we have pretty much everyone averaging below 31 in their familiar conditions.