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How do you explain these super spin friendly pitches in England?

A

asifp

ODI Debutant
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Nov 21, 2005
Runs
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I am all for an even contest between bat and ball and scores around 280-300 to be wining scores, but seriosuly what is up with these rank tuners in England?

England is supposed to be a place to favour geunine fast / seam / swing bowling. England's home advantage has been totally taken away and they seem pithces more out of India / UAE / Sri Lanka then they from England.

ICC has really taken this in a direction I did not expect. Not only the crowd but now the pithces seem sub-continental as well!
 
The quick fire answer: Rain + the new drainage systems
 
This is a joke!
English pitches are supposed to favour medium pace swing bowlers!
Icc is doing everything to make india get to the final!
If icc wants indian money so much, then just scrap these global tournaments and just hold indian club tournaments!
And by the way, none of these pitches are like uae pitches, those pitches are dead, low and slow, with only slight slow spin, not this fast spin pitches, which you only get in india!
 
Captain caveman said:
This is a joke!
English pitches are supposed to favour medium pace swing bowlers!
Icc is doing everything to make india get to the final!
If icc wants indian money so much, then just scrap these global tournaments and just hold indian club tournaments!
And by the way, none of these pitches are like uae pitches, those pitches are dead, low and slow, with only slight slow spin, not this fast spin pitches, which you only get in india!
Click to expand...
No wonder england are going to get knocked out of its own tournament!
England losing to SL in england, just sums it all up!
 
Weather is getting drier and some of the surfaces are being reused.

I like it, about time batsmen have to work hard for their runs.
 
Captain caveman said:
This is a joke!
English pitches are supposed to favour medium pace swing bowlers!
Icc is doing everything to make india get to the final!
If icc wants indian money so much, then just scrap these global tournaments and just hold indian club tournaments!
And by the way, none of these pitches are like uae pitches, those pitches are dead, low and slow, with only slight slow spin, not this fast spin pitches, which you only get in india!
Click to expand...

Interesting that India's pacers are doing well in these "made for India spin pitches"
 
ICC doing everything in their power to get Pakistan into the semis

Well we saw a lot of conspiracy theories here earlier when pakistan were losing " seaming pitches for asian sides, flat for england whatever cry cry".

Yet they cant see the obvious theories when pakistan starts winning.
Icc wants a India vs pakistan semi or final to generate more $$$$$.
Which is why all we have been getting is sub continental type pitches lately.
Pakistan got the pitch of their dreams that turned square from ball 1 vs NZ. They also got a favourable track vs sa.

Icc will do everything in its power. While they want NZ to get knocked out before semi - that is looking unlikely so they also have made england play on a dry pitch vs lanka. They want England out so they can get their $$ filled India v pakistan game.
Its all about the $
 
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Well, one can also argue that NZ players threw their game to get PSL contracts.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Agreed.

It's all a big ol....

C O N S P I R A C Y
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Not such a sensible post, by someone who refers to himself as sensible!
If you can't see that the pitches have been tailored made for india, or that nearly 90% of tickets for indian matches are sold to indian fans or that the 2021 world t20 is to be held in india, when the last one was held in india, or the wc in 2023 is to be held in india, when only 2 wc before it was held in india, then you are definetly not a sensible guy!
 
They want a ind vs pak semi or final.
Pretty obvious isn't it?
People were (mostly pakistanis) crying about pitches, conspiracy etc when pakistan were playing like bums.
Now that they are winning some games - the most obvious theories look invisible to the same people.

Icc gave the dream pitch to pakistan vs NZ. Raging turner from ball 1!
 
Captain caveman said:
Not such a sensible post, by someone who refers to himself as sensible!
If you can't see that the pitches have been tailored made for india, or that nearly 90% of tickets for indian matches are sold to indian fans or that the 2021 world t20 is to be held in india, when the last one was held in india, or the wc in 2023 is to be held in india, when only 2 wc before it was held in india, then you are definetly not a sensible guy!
Click to expand...

Bhai....I am not sensible.

Just my name is.

Your name says you are Captain Caveman.

But I am sure you are neither a captain nor a caveman. :yk

Also by the way, I am actually agreeing with you bhai.

Icc is doing everything to make india get to the final!
Click to expand...

Yes, it's a conspiracy by ICC to get India into finals.

What a pathetic move really.

We should start a petition.

This matter needs to be investigated ASAP.
 
gsivak said:
Interesting that India's pacers are doing well in these "made for India spin pitches"
Click to expand...

Indian spinners are doing better than fast bowlers. Fast bowlers have done well but nothing too special. I dont think its a conspiracy or anything but there is definitely no home advantage for England. Both India and Australia had the full home advantage in the last two WCs so I feel a bit sorry for England.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Bhai....I am not sensible.

Just my name is.

Your name says you are Captain Caveman.

But I am sure you are neither a captain nor a caveman. :yk

Also by the way, I am actually agreeing with you bhai.



Yes, it's a conspiracy by ICC to get India into finals.

What a pathetic move really.

We should start a petition.

This matter needs to be investigated ASAP.
Click to expand...

There is definitely no home advantage for England so far. It also makes sense for ICC to make wickets that suit subcontinental sides specially India as subcontinental sides getting to the final means more money particularly India.
 
Pakhs said:
There is definitely no home advantage for England so far. It also makes sense for ICC to make wickets that suit subcontinental sides specially India as subcontinental sides getting to the final means more money particularly India.
Click to expand...

England wont survive with England’s traditional home pitches of swing.
 
JaDed said:
England wont survive with England’s traditional home pitches of swing.
Click to expand...

They may not survive but they should have home advantage just like India and Australia had in the last two WCs.
 
Or that both the Kiwis and the Porteas deliberately underplayed just so Pakistan can win, especially the Kiwis who despite their much vaunted pace attacke that decimated the other teams bowled loose so that Pakistan could score high and this bring some credibiity to the win.
 
No you've got it all wrong. It's actually an elaborate ploy by aliens to bribe the BCCI with new technology in return for the wonders of Pakistan v India again.
 
This was the only pitch that was turning square. Other pitches have been good, they have spin but it's not dramatic.
 
Only the used pitches are turning square but that’s to be expected. The aus-eng match saw seam dominate. The Afghanistan-Bangladesh match was just a slow wicket. But it’s good to see a bit of variety. Tbh I’m really worried about our chances against Bangladesh if it’s a turning pitch, we must be worst in the subcontinent at playing spin especially SLA.
 
JaDed said:
England wont survive with England’s traditional home pitches of swing.
Click to expand...
That might be a decade back. England ODI pitches have been super roads since years. Look at the amount of high scores scored here in recent times.
 
Pakhs said:
There is definitely no home advantage for England so far. It also makes sense for ICC to make wickets that suit subcontinental sides specially India as subcontinental sides getting to the final means more money particularly India.
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Dude, we won ODIs series in South Africa, Australia and New-Zealand convincingly. We don't need subcontinent pitches to get into the final.
And Indian pitches have been super roads too. Look at the recent matches and see the amount of runs scored there.
 
Pakhs said:
They may not survive but they should have home advantage just like India and Australia had in the last two WCs.
Click to expand...

Their home advantage is flat pitches, checkout Bairstows comments in other thread..
 
India has beaten every side convincingly away from home.The only series loss was 2-1 against England. They have lost 2 world cup matches this decade.So this nonsense that India needs ICC to prepare pitches to suit them is just pure jealousy from some people.
 
England haven't played on any rank turners. They have either played on flat tracks or green wickets.
Stop trying to make excuses for their losses. They didn't lose to Pakistan on a rank turner.
I have only seen 1 pitch that was a rank turner, and that was the NZ vs Pak match.

Also you will get dryer pitches that offer turn with the drainage systems England are using in their major grounds and if the pitch has been under cover for days with the hover dryer on it, which blows warm air onto the pitch.
 
ICC is not helping India or Pakistan.

They have just listened to criticism that scores of 350-400 are not making good viewing. To be a champ teams must adapt. Pitch is the same for both the teams in a given match.

Pakistan defeated England on an absolute road (a pitch which suits England’s power hitters best)
 
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sensible-indian-fan said:
Bhai....I am not sensible.

Just my name is.

Your name says you are Captain Caveman.

But I am sure you are neither a captain nor a caveman. :yk

Also by the way, I am actually agreeing with you bhai.



Yes, it's a conspiracy by ICC to get India into finals.

What a pathetic move really.

We should start a petition.

This matter needs to be investigated ASAP.
Click to expand...
You say you agree with me and then you make light of the situation!
Thats fine, to be perfectly honest, i don't care!
Icc/bcci can work together to help india win global trophies, thats fine!
Money talks!
But don't get so defensive.when it is pointed out to you!
If i was an indian(and both my parents were born in india AFTER partition) i would just ignore these comments and enjoy our success. By ridiculing these comments is a sign that you know these comments are true, but you need to make sarcastic remarks to try and cover up the truth!
Yes you say you agree with me, then you make your snide remarks!
Just enjoy your success, and hope bcci keep having the money rolling in!
BECAUSE WHEN THE MONEY RUNS OUT, SO WILL YOUR SUCCESSS!
 
Captain caveman said:
You say you agree with me and then you make light of the situation!
Thats fine, to be perfectly honest, i don't care!
Icc/bcci can work together to help india win global trophies, thats fine!
Money talks!
But don't get so defensive.when it is pointed out to you!
If i was an indian(and both my parents were born in india AFTER partition) i would just ignore these comments and enjoy our success. By ridiculing these comments is a sign that you know these comments are true, but you need to make sarcastic remarks to try and cover up the truth!
Yes you say you agree with me, then you make your snide remarks!
Just enjoy your success, and hope bcci keep having the money rolling in!
BECAUSE WHEN THE MONEY RUNS OUT, SO WILL YOUR SUCCESSS!
Click to expand...
I meant to say YOUR SUCCESS, God forbid, definetly NOT OUR SUCCESS!
 
Pakhs said:
Indian spinners are doing better than fast bowlers. <b>Fast bowlers have done well but nothing too special.</b> I dont think its a conspiracy or anything but there is definitely no home advantage for England. Both India and Australia had the full home advantage in the last two WCs so I feel a bit sorry for England.
Click to expand...

Stats for Indian bowlers from today's game:
Bumrah & Shami: 12.2 overs, 25 runs, 6 wickets
Cha-Ku: 16 overs, 74 runs, 3 wickets
 
What nonsense? India has the most balanced bowling attack in the world and their bowlers have been taking the pitch out of equation for a long time now. Please give credit where credit is due!
 
If a batsman can't play spin then he is not a batsman at all, back in our days we used to hit spinners for fun, that's why I liked Hafeez's approach of bashing the part timers.
 
The actual spin pitch was the one that Pakistan played against NZ not the one that India played lol. Chahal & Kuldeep did well in SA, Australia, NZ. You think they won't do well in England where Muralitharan has 10 wicket hauls, Warne have wreaked havoc, Moeen Ali bundled India out a few times in Tests?
 
Usergame said:
They want a ind vs pak semi or final.
Pretty obvious isn't it?
People were (mostly pakistanis) crying about pitches, conspiracy etc when pakistan were playing like bums.
Now that they are winning some games - the most obvious theories look invisible to the same people.

Icc gave the dream pitch to pakistan vs NZ. Raging turner from ball 1!
Click to expand...

Neither of Pakistani spinners cam turn it good. Indians can however.
 
Cricket has become corrupt. They only care about money. I miss the days when cricket was fair.
 
Yes super spinners of WI blasted Pak for 125. Super spinners Starc, Amir and Archer are topping the bowling charts because of their wily tweaks. Didn't know Basit Ali's Twitter fans are on PP as well.
 
rhony said:
Yes super spinners of WI blasted Pak for 125. Super spinners Starc, Amir and Archer are topping the bowling charts because of their wily tweaks. Didn't know Basit Ali's Twitter fans are on PP as well.
Click to expand...

Yeah lol. On a slow pitch for spinners, Aamir wouldn't be able to buy a wicket. These are seamer friendly conditions if anything.
 
Captain caveman said:
You say you agree with me and then you make light of the situation!
Thats fine, to be perfectly honest, i don't care!
Icc/bcci can work together to help india win global trophies, thats fine!
Money talks!
But don't get so defensive.when it is pointed out to you!
If i was an indian(and both my parents were born in india AFTER partition) i would just ignore these comments and enjoy our success. By ridiculing these comments is a sign that you know these comments are true, but you need to make sarcastic remarks to try and cover up the truth!
Yes you say you agree with me, then you make your snide remarks!
Just enjoy your success, and hope bcci keep having the money rolling in!
BECAUSE WHEN THE MONEY RUNS OUT, SO WILL YOUR SUCCESSS!
Click to expand...

I'm with you brother. Pak should pull out of this farce immediately! That'll show 'em to put their money where the sun don't shine!
 
Napa said:
Stats for Indian bowlers from today's game:
Bumrah & Shami: 12.2 overs, 25 runs, 6 wickets
Cha-Ku: 16 overs, 74 runs, 3 wickets
Click to expand...

In the only two big games so far spinners got the most important wickets.
 
Dingolfy said:
Dude, we won ODIs series in South Africa, Australia and New-Zealand convincingly. We don't need subcontinent pitches to get into the final.
And Indian pitches have been super roads too. Look at the recent matches and see the amount of runs scored there.
Click to expand...

These pitches suit India more than England which is the point here. Not if India cant make it to final on other types of wickets etc thats not the point. These pitches suit subcontinental sides including India but it makes chances of India getting into final bigger more so because England are not that great on these types of wickets.
 
The Pitches for NZ-PK and Ind- WI were really poor. I have watched cricket at Edgebaston for nearly 40 years and i dont even remember a single 5th day Test wicket turning like the one between NZ and PK.It was only due to an incredible innings by Babar( excellently supported by Haris) that PK is still in the WC.
 
Captain caveman said:
This is a joke!
English pitches are supposed to favour medium pace swing bowlers!
Icc is doing everything to make india get to the final!
If icc wants indian money so much, then just scrap these global tournaments and just hold indian club tournaments!
And by the way, none of these pitches are like uae pitches, those pitches are dead, low and slow, with only slight slow spin, not this fast spin pitches, which you only get in india!
Click to expand...

its the conditions. Europe is getting drier and hotter. This summer has seen a combination of wet weather with hot spells in between. Some of the pitches have seamed and there has been swing due to overhead conditions. The difference is that the ICC supervise the pitches in tournaments. The ECB wants flat pitches to help their "brand". The ICC doesnt care about englands brand. Pitches in the late summer in recent years have been good for the asian teams. They have for the last twenty years or more. The english need to stop whingeing..such lack of mental strength..
 
Bewal Express said:
The Pitches for NZ-PK and Ind- WI were really poor. I have watched cricket at Edgebaston for nearly 40 years and i dont even remember a single 5th day Test wicket turning like the one between NZ and PK.It was only due to an incredible innings by Babar( excellently supported by Haris) that PK is still in the WC.
Click to expand...

These kind of wickets should help Pakistan against NZ more anyway. NZ would have preferred a greener pitch against Pakistan, Williamson hinted that at the press conference later.
 
the Great Khan said:
its the conditions. Europe is getting drier and hotter. This summer has seen a combination of wet weather with hot spells in between. Some of the pitches have seamed and there has been swing due to overhead conditions. The difference is that the ICC supervise the pitches in tournaments. The ECB wants flat pitches to help their "brand". The ICC doesnt care about englands brand. Pitches in the late summer in recent years have been good for the asian teams. They have for the last twenty years or more. The english need to stop whingeing..such lack of mental strength..
Click to expand...

This is key not the weather conditions etc, If it was English curators they would have managed to produce flat wickets. The only issue here should be that home side should have some advantage which I dont think England have at the moment.
 
Pakhs said:
These kind of wickets should help Pakistan against NZ more anyway. NZ would have preferred a greener pitch against Pakistan, Williamson hinted that at the press conference later.
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Yes, if PK bat 1st and we didnt have a spinner who couldnt spin a bottle top( Imad)
 
Pakhs said:
This is key not the weather conditions etc, If it was English curators they would have managed to produce flat wickets. The only issue here should be that home side should have some advantage which I dont think England have at the moment.
Click to expand...

Home sides should have no big advantage in tournaments. The advantages they have are thier home grounds, family friends close and home fans..pitches should be the ICC's problem. The english ened to stop whining and complaining. Bairstow tries to come across as this stout yorkshireman but its all fake. theyve never really faced major problems in their life hence are soft mentally..

with this mentality India will crush them..
 
the Great Khan said:
Home sides should have no big advantage in tournaments. The advantages they have are thier home grounds, family friends close and home fans..pitches should be the ICC's problem. The english ened to stop whining and complaining. Bairstow tries to come across as this stout yorkshireman but its all fake. theyve never really faced major problems in their life hence are soft mentally..

with this mentality India will crush them..
Click to expand...

India and Australia both enjoyed the home advantage in previous two WCs. England also had the home advantage in 99 but not in this WC so far.
 
Pakhs said:
There was still an advantage for Pakistan which showed in the performance and the reason why we won.
Click to expand...

We won because of freakishly good innings by Babar- where he showed intelligence and composure that we havent seen in a long time from a PK batsman. The pitch was poor!
 
Bewal Express said:
We won because of freakishly good innings by Babar- where he showed intelligence and composure that we havent seen in a long time from a PK batsman. The pitch was poor!
Click to expand...

Yes he could not play these freakish;y good innings when we played on pacy and bouncy wickets of NZ. And the way we lost most games in those conditions even if he did play we would have still lost. The wicket gave us a better chance.
 
Be glad. If it was flat and teams batted first good luck to us chasing 350.
 
Calm down. All the supposedly spin pitches were played on used surfaces. English summer has also kicked in. It's getting hotter and drier in these parts of the world.
 
I really don't understand this place sometimes.

For the last four years fans have screamed about bat-ball balance in ODIs.

Now we have a World Cup with bat-ball balance but that's a problem too. These batsmen should have to work hard for their runs on surfaces that challenge them.
 
Pakhs said:
India and Australia both enjoyed the home advantage in previous two WCs. England also had the home advantage in 99 but not in this WC so far.
Click to expand...

What home advantage you are talking about. England tied with India chasing 333. SA beat India by chasing 296 in 2011. Those pitches were conducive to everybody. If anything India provides wide range of pitches. Genreally for world cup they always provide flat pitches. There is no home advantage in one dayers even in bilaterals.
 
I sympathise for England because it's not exactly been home advantage at all and the wickets they have experienced of late do not conform to the batting paradises they have been playing on for the last 4 years. You can call them "whiners" and "cry babies", but if Pakistan was hosting a WC and the wickets dished out were green and bouncy, we would be 10x more outraged.

England haven't helped themselves, as they have not diversified the nature of the wickets they have curated, but they deserve their number 1 ranking because they have also been dominant away from home.

Dropping Alex Hales was a poor and arrogant decision by Ashley Giles, but I'm not surprised, given his ego. He should be sacked by the ECB for this decision alone. England are badly missing cover for Jason Roy. James Vince is a poor backup who should never have been in contention for this WC.

Moeen Ali has proven himself yet again to be a gutless cricketer and should be permanently axed from ODIs. He's seriously let his team down in this WC with a series of poor displays.
 
Totally agree with OP. ICC have completely taken home advantage away from England with these rubbish UAE style pitches.

Too bad their “neutral curators” were sleeping when India and Australia benefited from home conditions in 2011 and 2015, and you would see classic Indian pitches in 2023 as well.

England have been robbed in this World Cup. Injuries, bad luck and poor pitches. The universe seems to have conspired to ensure that England do not win the World Cup in spite of working so hard since the 2015 World Cup.

Everything has come crashing down at the last moment. England will have to play out of their skins in these two games to defy the odds since everything is going against them at the moment.
 
topspin said:
I sympathise for England because it's not exactly been home advantage at all and the wickets they have experienced of late do not conform to the batting paradises they have been playing on for the last 4 years. You can call them "whiners" and "cry babies", but if Pakistan was hosting a WC and the wickets dished out were green and bouncy, we would be 10x more outraged.

England haven't helped themselves, as they have not diversified the nature of the wickets they have curated, but they deserve their number 1 ranking because they have also been dominant away from home.

Dropping Alex Hales was a poor and arrogant decision by Ashley Giles, but I'm not surprised, given his ego. He should be sacked by the ECB for this decision alone. England are badly missing cover for Jason Roy. James Vince is a poor backup who should never have been in contention for this WC.

Moeen Ali has proven himself yet again to be a gutless cricketer and should be permanently axed from ODIs. He's seriously let his team down in this WC with a series of poor displays.
Click to expand...

Flat tracks is not what English tracks are not known for. In a global event there are certain variables not going to change. First ball. Kookaburra ball. There is a big difference between Kookaburra and Duke. That will negate the swing. Second swing is not dependent on pitch. It depends on overcast conditions. Behavior of the pitch changes based on how dry it is. Any professional cricketer will know. These guys play their cricket in England. They should know these variables better than others.

Most important fact is do you have the bowlers to exploit the conditions. OP is whining about "ENgland is known for swing". Against Australia England got the perfectly swinging and seaming conditions. Anybody who saw the match can tell how atrocious the bowling was from England on that pitch. Someone like Anderson would have run through Australian top order. On the same pitch later Australia showed how to bowl on that pitch.

IDon't blame the stage if the dancers are bad.
 
When India tour England in 2018, kuldeep was highest wicket taker from India from ODIs and T20s.

Pakistan is jealous of Indian bowling.
 
Mamoon said:
Totally agree with OP. ICC have completely taken home advantage away from England with these rubbish UAE style pitches.

Too bad their “neutral curators” were sleeping when India and Australia benefited from home conditions in 2011 and 2015, and you would see classic Indian pitches in 2023 as well.

England have been robbed in this World Cup. Injuries, bad luck and poor pitches. The universe seems to have conspired to ensure that England do not win the World Cup in spite of working so hard since the 2015 World Cup.

Everything has come crashing down at the last moment. England will have to play out of their skins in these two games to defy the odds since everything is going against them at the moment.
Click to expand...

Did ICC have a weather machine that ensured the wettest June in years ? If anything the more sporting pitches we've seen in this World Cup are down to British weather and also the need to reuse some surfaces for television.

What UAE style pitches, they had flat batting tracks vs SAF, PAK, BAN and AFG. The only slow, gripping pitch England received was at Leeds vs Sri Lanka which England would've won if they batted with brains.

And why should Asian style pitches be a problem for a team that's beaten Pakistan in UAE, and beaten Sri Lanka and Bangladesh away ? They were #1 ranked for a reason.

At Lord's they bowled first on a seaming pitch which you'd have thought would've played into the hands of their seamers who proceeded to bowl back of a length rubbish, whereas Australia pitched it up. That's on England, not conditions.

Nobody put a gun to Ed Smith's head demanding he pick the English Umar Akmal in James Vince. There were other backup batsmen he could've picked like Sam Billings. India have also had injuries to Dhawan and Kumar but their bench strength is solid.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
What home advantage you are talking about. England tied with India chasing 333. SA beat India by chasing 296 in 2011. Those pitches were conducive to everybody. If anything India provides wide range of pitches. Genreally for world cup they always provide flat pitches. There is no home advantage in one dayers even in bilaterals.
Click to expand...

It was not India who provided anything, The wickets were exactly how you would expect from Indian conditions for ODIs, low bounce, good for batting and take some turn. Subcontinental sides have the advantage on those wickets. 3 of the four subcontinental sides got to the semis and two in the final and the best won. Open your eyes India did have home advantage, England advantage would be flat wickets with no turn what so ever.
 
Pakhs said:
It was not India who provided anything, The wickets were exactly how you would expect from Indian conditions for ODIs, low bounce, good for batting and take some turn. Subcontinental sides have the advantage on those wickets. 3 of the four subcontinental sides got to the semis and two in the final and the best won. Open your eyes India did have home advantage, England advantage would be flat wickets with no turn what so ever.
Click to expand...

Those are typical subcontinent conditions. You cannot call it advantageous. If you convert them into a minefield you can call it advantageous. Same way England's typical conditions are Edgbaston turns old trafford turns, Oval turns, Lords have bounce, Leeds has more movement. What England wants is flat tracks everywhere. That is called home advantage. Changing the basic nature of the pitches. That is not what subcontinent teams did.
 
Markhor said:
Weather is getting drier and some of the surfaces are being reused.

I like it, about time batsmen have to work hard for their runs.
Click to expand...

This and English pitches do get effected easily by conditions and reusage. CT17 also became difficult for English team in later half.
 
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