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How does India keep producing such incredible batting talent?

Can't say much about pitches , may be the Indian ones turns more? But coaching at Junior and domestic level is similar , same old coaches who are lazy and takes money to select players. May be the MRF academy and other HPCs in India have better coaching facilities and that's about it.
Based on international matches, huge gap in pitches in Pakistan and India. Turn is not the only difference.

Pakistani pitches are mostly dead with lowest bounce in world.
 
Based on international matches, huge gap in pitches in Pakistan and India. Turn is not the only difference.

Pakistani pitches are mostly dead with lowest bounce in world.
I see very good pitches in recently concluded champions cup , had pace , bounce ,spin and everything.
 
I see very good pitches in recently concluded champions cup , had pace , bounce ,spin and everything.
Hopefully, then we see the same in international in future. I see mostly dead pitches in internationals.
 
I see very good pitches in recently concluded champions cup , had pace , bounce ,spin and everything.
for aspiring cricketers age 10 to 18

Better quality cricket infrastructure
Quantity of matches played by a teenage. I know for sure that our club cricket is dead. A player like Jaiswal plays a lot of cricket at youth level compared to young Pakistani(club matches, school matches and local tournaments).

Batsmen are not developed at domestic level. The gulf in difference between Pakistan U19 and India U19 batters is massive
 
for aspiring cricketers age 10 to 18

Better quality cricket infrastructure
Quantity of matches played by a teenage. I know for sure that our club cricket is dead. A player like Jaiswal plays a lot of cricket at youth level compared to young Pakistani(club matches, school matches and local tournaments).

Batsmen are not developed at domestic level. The gulf in difference between Pakistan U19 and India U19 batters is massive
Agreed the Ind U19 batters seems different breed altogether than Pak U19s in every worldcup.
 
India doesn't have the luxury of 2 dozen 140k+ bowlers in their domestic system , their bowlers in most domestic teams operates around 120-130k range with few of them managing 135k+ (you can watch duleep trophy highlights on youtube) yes they have around 10 bowlers who are capable of hitting 140k+ (including the national team bowlers) but in Pak domestic circuit even at U19 league cricket they have bowlers bowling around 127-135k in every U19 team. You can see PJL which was basically U17 league and had all bowlers bowling around 127-133k which is indeed a luxury.
This is true . But you also are making the mistake of comparing PJL and U-19 with Duleep.

You should compare speeds in QEA with Duleep because those are similar long formats.

Having said that, I personally don't disagree. Pakistan usually do produce a larger number of raw 140 + bowlers than we do.
 
Having watched highlights of Duleep trophy 2024 I can safely say that Indian domestic cricket isn't way ahead of Pak , I saw most bowlers bowling in 127-133k with few exceptions of 138k and knee length bounce and batsmen struggling against swinging and big spinning deliveries , however the spinning talent was definitely far better than Pak spinners , may be it's more to do with turning pitches then the quality of spin bowling.

I have noticed that batsmen were playing with soft hands and not showing rush of blood but having said that they are still crap against moving deliveries (both spin and pace).
This is true . But you also are making the mistake of comparing PJL and U-19 with Duleep.

You should compare speeds in QEA with Duleep because those are similar long formats.

Having said that, I personally don't disagree. Pakistan usually do produce a larger number of raw 140 + bowlers than we do.
 
I haven’t seen a single 140k delivery registering on the speed gun in all the highlights I watched of duleep trophy 2024 The highest speed shown was 138k.
 
I haven’t seen a single 140k delivery registering on the speed gun in all the highlights I watched of duleep trophy 2024 The highest speed shown was 138k.
How about QEA. Do you see many deliveries over 140?
 
So the question remains the same , how come India keep producing prodigious young batter when their domestic cricketers are as bad as Pak ones? It’s just the young Batters who just get appears from nowhere and starts scoring heavily in Indian domestic cricket.
 
I haven’t seen a single 140k delivery registering on the speed gun in all the highlights I watched of duleep trophy 2024 The highest speed shown was 138k.
Harshit Rana was comfortably above that.
Having watched highlights of Duleep trophy 2024 I can safely say that Indian domestic cricket isn't way ahead of Pak , I saw most bowlers bowling in 127-133k with few exceptions of 138k and knee length bounce and batsmen struggling against swinging and big spinning deliveries , however the spinning talent was definitely far better than Pak spinners , may be it's more to do with turning pitches then the quality of spin bowling.

I have noticed that batsmen were playing with soft hands and not showing rush of blood but having said that they are still crap against moving deliveries (both spin and pace).
But do you have speed guns showing bowling 140 + in QEA. I know you have 140 + bowlers. Never denied it .

But you are quoting their speeds from shorter formats.

Can they bowl long spells at pace is what I'm asking
 
Bro even our U19 kids bowls at 140k+ just don’t talk about 2 dozens 140k pacers we have in domestic cricket.
Yes I know but it's one thing to bowl 140+ in a 4 over spell and it's another to bowl 140+ in a second or third spell in First class match. Why Pakistani batsmen have poor technique against pace, despite facing 140+ all the time, high pace gets on their nerves. Even Babar was uncomfortable against Nahid Rana. Ideally facing regularly 140+ fast bowlers, muscle memory and reflexes should have been better than Indian batsmen
 
Yes I know but it's one thing to bowl 140+ in a 4 over spell and it's another to bowl 140+ in a second or third spell in First class match. Why Pakistani batsmen have poor technique against pace, despite facing 140+ all the time, high pace gets on their nerves. Even Babar was uncomfortable against Nahid Rana.
But Indian domestic bowlers never touch 140k in any of their spells in whole games.

Pak Batter struggles against high pace and bounce despite facing quick bowlers all their life in domestic cricket , I have seriously no idea why.
 
I haven’t seen a single 140k delivery registering on the speed gun in all the highlights I watched of duleep trophy 2024 The highest speed shown was 138k.

Both Navdeep and Harshit bowled multiple bowls over 140s.

Akashdeep bowls between 135-140 and he is doing decent in international cricket.

And no Indian with even an iota of knowledge about domestic cricket will believe that anathpur has low bounce.
 
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But Indian domestic bowlers never touch 140k in any of their spells in whole games.

Pak Batter struggles against high pace and bounce despite facing quick bowlers all their life in domestic cricket , I have seriously no idea why.
not true. many do but they also bowl a heavy ball.
 
Having seen the Duleep trophy highlight I can easily say that comparing fast bowlers from Champions Cup with Duleep trophy is like comparing Aus pacers with Zim pacers. And I am not even taunting or making fun of it. That's exactly what I felt when I watched the highlights.
 
India has far better infrastructure even at club levels.

Players in domestics are well paid.

Coaches system is much better developed due to money flowing into the local system.

I don't know where in Pakistan they have 2 dozen 140 plus bowlers. This better fast bowlers myth has long been broken.
 
Both Navdeep and Harshit bowled multiple bowls over 140s.

Akashdeep bowls between 135-140 and he is doing decent in international cricket.

And no Indian with even an iota of knowledge about domestic cricket will believe that anathpur has low bounce.
Well I haven't seen a single 140k delivery in any of the highlights I watched.
 
Having seen the Duleep trophy highlight I can easily say that comparing fast bowlers from Champions Cup with Duleep trophy is like comparing Aus pacers with Zim pacers. And I am not even taunting or making fun of it. That's exactly what I felt when I watched the highlights.

Its your personal opinion, doesn't mean its true.
 
India has far better infrastructure even at club levels.

Players in domestics are well paid.

Coaches system is much better developed due to money flowing into the local system.

I don't know where in Pakistan they have 2 dozen 140 plus bowlers. This better fast bowlers myth has long been broken.
Bro I do have a eye for fast bowling talent and I am not impressed by even a single pacer in Duleep trophy. And I don't normally praise Pak players as well unless I see something really amazing in them.
 
And no Indian with even an iota of knowledge about domestic cricket will believe that anathpur has low bounce.
Anantapur pitch was Imported from Brisbane and people comment on it with out any knowledge .that's why all the batsmen struggled due to bounce
 
May be India have better club cricket that's why there young batters are more compact with correct technique and more mental toughness to play long innings without playing false stroke which Pak batters never seems to have at any level.
 
India has far better infrastructure even at club levels.

Players in domestics are well paid.

Coaches system is much better developed due to money flowing into the local system.

I don't know where in Pakistan they have 2 dozen 140 plus bowlers. This better fast bowlers myth has long been broken.
I can name all those 2 dozen pacers with on record bowling speed as recent as 2023. It's another story whether they can sustain this pace in longer format over multiple sessions or not.
 
Bro I do have a eye for fast bowling talent and I am not impressed by even a single pacer in Duleep trophy.

Your self declaration isn't gospel truth.

Akashdeep is doing much better against BD than your hyped pacers.

Arshdeep was the highest wkt taker at the T20 WC.

Harshit Rana bowled brilliantly in the recent IPL and bowls in high 140s.
 
Your self declaration isn't gospel truth.

Akashdeep is doing much better against BD than your hyped pacers.

Arshdeep was the highest wkt taker at the T20 WC.

Harshit Rana bowled brilliantly in the recent IPL and bowls in high 140s.
May be they did bowl some 140k stuff but too bad none of the highlights have them bowling 140k.
 
I can name all those 2 dozen pacers with on record bowling speed as recent as 2023. It's another story whether they can sustain this pace in longer format over multiple sessions or not.
That's my point. If you did have bowlers sustaining speeds over long spells, you wouldn't be playing trundlers like Mir Hamza.
 
May be they did bowl some 140k stuff but too bad none of the highlights have them bowling 140k.
What are you even on about? Just making statements without anything to back it.

If yu are claiming Pakistan has better fast bowlers that Indian bowlers, then numbers and performances speak for themselves or do you want to stick to their is a lot of talent in Pakistan?
 
Your self declaration isn't gospel truth.

Akashdeep is doing much better against BD than your hyped pacers.

Arshdeep was the highest wkt taker at the T20 WC.

Harshit Rana bowled brilliantly in the recent IPL and bowls in high 140s.
Pakistan has better fast bowlers than India.

Source: trust me bro and ofcourse claiming some eye for fast bowling talent.
 
Pakistan has better fast bowlers than India.

Source: trust me bro and ofcourse claiming some eye for fast bowling talent.
Source : Duleep Trophy and Champions Cup highlights , Go see and decide yourself or ask someone who has decent cricket knowledge to tell which tournament has better bowlers.
 
I am talking seriously and mocking or making fun of anything it's no shame in admitting that you guys have poor fast bowling talent but far far better batsmen than Pak batters and even though the current fast bowlers of your national team are far better than our fast bowlers , no shame in admitting that but that doesn't change the fact we produce better fast bowlers all the time and it will be just the matter of time when we have couple of better fast bowlers playing for us in near future.

Just stating some facts.
 
Indian batsmen practice with balls having chips, and that's why good batting talent is always coming through.
 
I am talking seriously and mocking or making fun of anything it's no shame in admitting that you guys have poor fast bowling talent but far far better batsmen than Pak batters and even though the current fast bowlers of your national team are far better than our fast bowlers , no shame in admitting that but that doesn't change the fact we produce better fast bowlers all the time and it will be just the matter of time when we have couple of better fast bowlers playing for us in near future.

Just stating some facts.
No more use of bottle caps so obviously Pakistan bowlers are very average ,this is reason no one taken 200 test Wickets after Waqar Younis
 
Having watched highlights of Duleep trophy 2024 I can safely say that Indian domestic cricket isn't way ahead of Pak , I saw most bowlers bowling in 127-133k with few exceptions of 138k and knee length bounce and batsmen struggling against swinging and big spinning deliveries , however the spinning talent was definitely far better than Pak spinners , may be it's more to do with turning pitches then the quality of spin bowling.

I have noticed that batsmen were playing with soft hands and not showing rush of blood but having said that they are still crap against moving deliveries (both spin and pace).
To be honest, I'd rather have 120-130 K bowlers bowling smartly and winning me tournaments, than have 140K + 'raw pace' bowlers bottling it against Bangladesh at home and losing to USA abroad.
Pace isn't everything. One reason why Pakistan has not been able to produce a sustainably good bowling attack is because of their silly obsession with pace. Too much emphasis on pace destroys the bodies of their bowlers and makes them vulnerable to injuries. We have seen it with Shoaib Akhtar, Waqar Younis and also with Shaheen Afridi. Line, length, accuracy and the 'ability to read the batsman's mind' are all as important and Pakistani bowlers seem to be way below international standards in all this.
 
I am talking seriously and mocking or making fun of anything it's no shame in admitting that you guys have poor fast bowling talent but far far better batsmen than Pak batters and even though the current fast bowlers of your national team are far better than our fast bowlers , no shame in admitting that but that doesn't change the fact we produce better fast bowlers all the time and it will be just the matter of time when we have couple of better fast bowlers playing for us in near future.

Just stating some facts.
There is more fast bowling talent in Pakistan but there is lack of brain to use that talent. The ones that had brains like Wasim, they got the success.
 
Source : Duleep Trophy and Champions Cup highlights , Go see and decide yourself or ask someone who has decent cricket knowledge to tell which tournament has better bowlers.
Why is it that with so much fast bowling tailunt available in Pakistan we don't get to see then on International level?

Or is it a conspiracy against Pakistani bowlers where even though they are bowling fast the speedometer only shows 130kmpj like Afridi insinuated in Australia?
 
From my working life I have observed that:

Indians generally are hard working people, they understand the concept of delayed gratification and really put in the hard yards before expecting greatness. I have seen recent migrants to the UK with two kids and both parents stay up at night doing extra studies in business school to get ahead.

Pakistanis have a more airy fairy approach to life. A happy go lucky attitude where hard work isn't required and people get complacent after a quick taste of success or they look for shortcuts. They rely solely on displays off emotion and so called jazba etc to get them by. It works for a short while but gets found out.

You can apply these observations to cricket ( especially batting) too.
 
I feel Ali Raza is a good hard worker and he just love bowling all the time , I believe he will take 200 test wickets for us. You can bump this post after a decade.
 
From my working life I have observed that:

Indians generally are hard working people, they understand the concept of delayed gratification and really put in the hard yards before expecting greatness. I have seen recent migrants to the UK with two kids and both parents stay up at night doing extra studies in business school to get ahead.

Pakistanis have a more airy fairy approach to life. A happy go lucky attitude where hard work isn't required and people get complacent after a quick taste of success or they look for shortcuts. They rely solely on displays off emotion and so called jazba etc to get them by. It works for a short while but gets found out.

You can apply these observations to cricket ( especially batting) too.
100% agreed with this post , Indians believe in delayed gratification and hardwork where as most Pakistani guys relies on instant gratification and less hardwork and more reliance on passion.
 
I am talking seriously and mocking or making fun of anything it's no shame in admitting that you guys have poor fast bowling talent but far far better batsmen than Pak batters and even though the current fast bowlers of your national team are far better than our fast bowlers , no shame in admitting that but that doesn't change the fact we produce better fast bowlers all the time and it will be just the matter of time when we have couple of better fast bowlers playing for us in near future.

Just stating some facts.
You do relaize domestic speed guns are slower by 5kmph in india.

Harshit kuldeep Sen who is injured
Prasidh
Mayank yadav
Umran etc
All bowl 135 to 140 plus.
 
Those speed guns are poor,you have no clue about Indian domestics
I saw the highlights and the standard of Indian domestic cricket is definitely low may be slightly better than Pak but definitely not by great deal as being touted by many.

All the Indian young guns are not product of their domestic cricket anyway, Indian U19 and youth setup is definitely miles ahead of Pakistan and it's reflect on their end product , but Indian domestic cricket is definitely not high
 
Arre yaar, why are you guys arguing?
PakPassion is in desperate times for hope and optimism, their team is garbage. In these times, as good neighbours we should let them live in delusion about their pace bowling stocks.

Muhammad Saad bhai, you're right, Pakistan has the FASTEST, STRONGEST, DEADLIEST pace bowling attacking EVER.
 
Arre yaar, why are you guys arguing?
PakPassion is in desperate times for hope and optimism, their team is garbage. In these times, as good neighbours we should let them live in delusion about their pace bowling stocks.

Muhammad Saad bhai, you're right, Pakistan has the FASTEST, STRONGEST, DEADLIEST pace bowling attacking EVER.
Fastest bowlers quantitively compare to all other nations , YES , quality bowlers? NO.
 
Fastest bowlers quantitively compare to all other nations , YES , quality bowlers? NO.

Yes, I agree brother. I think it's THE FASTEST IN HISTORY OF CRICKET. Sir Viv Richards would wet his pants if he was to face the talents(which are mysteriously not in International team and only playing domestic cricket) of PAKISTAN bowling.
 
Yes, I agree brother. I think it's THE FASTEST IN HISTORY OF CRICKET. Sir Viv Richards would wet his pants if he was to face the talents(which are mysteriously not in International team and only playing domestic cricket) of PAKISTAN bowling.
Still doesn't change the fact that we have 2 dozen 140k+ bowlers and you guys probably got 10 or even less.

Eat meat get strong.
 
Still doesn't change the fact that we have 2 dozen 140k+ bowlers and you guys probably got 10 or even less.
I agree brother, but when it comes to deployment in intl cricket, there are 120-130k trundlers plying the trade when the individual quota is >5 overs a day. If only PCT had one 145k+ thunderbolt bowler, they might have not lost at home to BD.

Who is the Kagiso Rabada, Cummin, Nortche et al of PK cricket in action?
 
Start eating meat then you will have 300 dozen.
Pakistan every players are eating meat thats why they lost to USA in T20 world cup , clean sweep by Bangladesh (2-0) and England (3-0) in Pakistan . Australia did also beat Pakistan in Pakistan .

Not gonna to tells you how badly India humiliated Pakistan. . i think this is enough for now.
 
I saw the highlights and the standard of Indian domestic cricket is definitely low may be slightly better than Pak but definitely not by great deal as being touted by many.

All the Indian young guns are not product of their domestic cricket anyway, Indian U19 and youth setup is definitely miles ahead of Pakistan and it's reflect on their end product , but Indian domestic cricket is definitely not high
Lol as I said you have no clue about it
Sarfaraz,Ruturaj,Gill,Jaiswal,Parag,Sai,Etc are all products of domestics
If you keep your eyes closed doesn't mean there is no difference between Indian domestics and Pakistani ones
There is a reason Pak have been producing real bad batsmen among all cricket nations in last 20-22years
 
Source : Duleep Trophy and Champions Cup highlights , Go see and decide yourself or ask someone who has decent cricket knowledge to tell which tournament has better bowlers.

So you claim that this champions cup had better bowlers than

Arshdeep (highest wkt taker in Wt20 2024)

Akashdeep who has performed decently versus England and BD in tests.

Harshit Rana who bowled in mid to high 140s in the IPL and took 19 wkts this season.

You also claim that pakistani bowlers were quicker, when the fact is that Pakistani tournament had no speed gun.
 
Still doesn't change the fact that we have 2 dozen 140k+ bowlers and you guys probably got 10 or even less.

Eat meat get strong.

Still doesn't change the fact that Pakistan hasn't won a test match for god knows how many days.

Pakistanis got whitewashed by BD who were beaten by India in 2 days.

Pakistan hasn't won a test at home since 2022.

Eating meat doesn't mean anything. You can keep trolling on a Pakistani website, while your team gets smashed on field.
 
Having watched highlights of Duleep trophy 2024 I can safely say that Indian domestic cricket isn't way ahead of Pak , I saw most bowlers bowling in 127-133k with few exceptions of 138k and knee length bounce and batsmen struggling against swinging and big spinning deliveries , however the spinning talent was definitely far better than Pak spinners , may be it's more to do with turning pitches then the quality of spin bowling.

I have noticed that batsmen were playing with soft hands and not showing rush of blood but having said that they are still crap against moving deliveries (both spin and pace).
You got so much time to invest into India's domestic cricket - Yaar kuch aur kar leita! :P
 
I did watch some Champions Cup game. Other than Jahandad Khan, who seemed a very good prospect for Pakistan, I didn't see any other good pacers. Having said that, I didn't watch a lot.
 
India has such a glorious history of the purity of batting.
It’s worth reading the book “ A Corner of a Foreign Field: The Indian History of a British Sport”. by Ramachandra Guha.
Apart from being a wonderful juxtaposition of sport and social history (a sort of CLR James in an Indian setting) it does detail the arch of Hazare, Merchant, Gavaskar, Tendulkar etc etc

Not for any small reason did Ian Chappell (a fine observer of the game) espouse that Indian batting was the best in the world.

Why— well I guess there is the culture, the tradition and the system and infrastructure.
Kohli spoke about this (when he was still a major force) about how he pushed himself to be even spoken about in the same sentence as these players.

 
He is not wrong. Jaiswal, Abhishek, Samson, Ruturaj, Tilak Varma, Riyan Parag, Rishabh pant, Rinku Singh, Sai Sudarshan, Isan Kishan, Shivam Dube, Patidar, Paddikal,.
You have many many talented players who can walk into many other teams, but in the end, you need to go and win the tournament with the 11 playing. Let's see if you can go all the way this time.
 
You have many many talented players who can walk into many other teams, but in the end, you need to go and win the tournament with the 11 playing. Let's see if you can go all the way this time.

We have a performance anxiety issue. Happens to the best of them :kallis
 
You have many many talented players who can walk into many other teams, but in the end, you need to go and win the tournament with the 11 playing. Let's see if you can go all the way this time.

India will start doing well once they weed out all the one-dimensional players.
 
How does India keep producing such incredible batting talent?

Because they have less corruption.
And they have more money to invest.
 
How does India keep producing such incredible batting talent?

Because they have less corruption.
And they have more money to invest.

Better batting coaches. The backlift, follow through of pakistan batsmen look ungainly. This guy Tayyab Tahir is probably going to struggle to get in to atleast 20 Indian states of List A teams.
 
How does India keep producing such incredible batting talent?

Because they have less corruption.
And they have more money to invest.

It’s the legacy bro.
From the inception of our cricket we have a batting legacy.
 
It’s the legacy bro.
From the inception of our cricket we have a batting legacy.
It's true and what legacy - Tendulkar/Ganguly/Dravid to name but a few.

But it does help having the funds for good batting coaches at grassroot levels.

In contrast, Pak is running everything on a shoestring budget.
 
It's true and what legacy - Tendulkar/Ganguly/Dravid to name but a few.

But it does help having the funds for good batting coaches at grassroot levels.

In contrast, Pak is running everything on a shoestring budget.

The legacy starts from Ranjitsinhji, Duleepsinhji, Vijay Merchant, Vijay Hazare, Vinoo Mankad, Poly Umrigar, Nawab Pataudi, Gavaskar, Gundappa, Vengsarkar, Jimmy Amarnath and all
 
How does India keep producing such incredible batting talent?

Because they have less corruption.
And they have more money to invest.

Its because of a system. Works for batsman and spinners. Not for express pacers.
 
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