How good was Imran Khan as a batsman in Tests?

[Justcrazy]

I would have done. More importantly, so did the PCB.

Imran was the captain , big name .

PCB did not have gutts against Imran

 

[Feroz Rawther]

Viv was an exception. He was a genius. Do you know he averaged 60 at a S/R of 70 during his first half? At that batting average, playing for a team that had the best bowlers, Viv needed only two gears.

Kapil dev did not play for a team which could afford that luxury. Indian team strength often required him to play a typical test match knock. Had Dev been a batsman who averaged 40@60 instead of 31@81 he would have influenced quite a lot of matches with his bat.

selecting first half only when he has only scored 8540 runs in whole is not a sensible idea. if so we can find such periods of brilliance in Kapil's test record too.more over we don't know as to whether defence was Viv's strong point.
the important point is Viv's basic nature of batting was attacking and he became successful playing that way.

Similarly Kapil's nature of play was all out aggression.Also , if we go thru a lot of his +55 scores(which i have done in brief) we can see that Kapil indeed has influenced quite a no: of matches. i am not saying that they all contributed in changing the fortunes of the match because that depends on the entire strength of the team.Kapil's lot of big knocks came against quality bowlers in tough match situations and in tough conditions.And often he did it all by himself .
for instance take 129(180) in SAF. IN THE 3RD INNS India was placed at 26 for 6.only final rites of a humiliating loss remained. from there on he single handedly gave a 150+ lead by taking on Donald & Shultz.that is why i rate Kapil so highly. the ability to singlehandedly take on the best bowlers and change the balance of the match situation

 

[Haroon786]

Sobers was originally picked for his bowling alone, when he was a tailender.

Botham and Kapil would certainly have got into their respective sides purely as bowlers (at least, in Botham's case, for his first sixty tests, when he was rather better than James Anderson, I think). Kapil was India's best ever opening bowler.

The other think about Botham is that you got a brilliant slip fielder too, perhaps England's best since Wally Hammond in the 1930s and certainly after Botham retired. He leaped around like a salmon and caught everything.

I'm talking about their finished iterations, otherwise, an argument along those lines would mean Imran never being picked for an international team because originally, his batting and his bowling were not at the requisite level for international cricket.

 

[Robert]

I'm talking about their finished iterations, otherwise, an argument along those lines would mean Imran never being picked for an international team because originally, his batting and his bowling were not at the requisite level for international cricket.

Well, if you are going by "finished iterations", Botham and Kapil would never have played tests with bat or ball!

 

[Haroon786]

Well, if you are going by "finished iterations", Botham and Kapil would never have played tests with bat or ball!

Finished as in being fully developed, not in the sense that they would be in the twilight if their career.

 

[Bilal7]

I used a 50+ cutoff for Imran because that is in tests, while Dhoni’s not outs are in ODIs.

40+ is a pretty good score in tests too, especially by a lower-order batsman. Regardless, what do these stats prove? Imran still averages 48.

 

[IndianWillow]

selecting first half only when he has only scored 8540 runs in whole is not a sensible idea. if so we can find such periods of brilliance in Kapil's test record too.more over we don't know as to whether defence was Viv's strong point.
the important point is Viv's basic nature of batting was attacking and he became successful playing that way.

Similarly Kapil's nature of play was all out aggression.Also , if we go thru a lot of his +55 scores(which i have done in brief) we can see that Kapil indeed has influenced quite a no: of matches. i am not saying that they all contributed in changing the fortunes of the match because that depends on the entire strength of the team.Kapil's lot of big knocks came against quality bowlers in tough match situations and in tough conditions.And often he did it all by himself .
for instance take 129(180) in SAF. IN THE 3RD INNS India was placed at 26 for 6.only final rites of a humiliating loss remained. from there on he single handedly gave a 150+ lead by taking on Donald & Shultz.that is why i rate Kapil so highly. the ability to singlehandedly take on the best bowlers and change the balance of the match situation

Kapil did have his moments of glory.

But cameos don't change the fortune of test matches frequently. Regardless of whether you have high or low strike rates, you need to have a healthy average if you want to make serious impact as a batsman in test matches. If high strike rate is founded on high average, then you are a deadly batsman - this was true in the case of Viv, Sehwag, Gilchrist etc. With a test average of 31, you aren't likely to be a century maker and hence the overall impact with the bat will be minimal. Dev had a carefree attitude towards batting, and during the 80s this kind of batting will leave you susceptible to early dismissals.

 

[Feroz Rawther]

Kapil did have his moments of glory.

But cameos don't change the fortune of test matches frequently. Regardless of whether you have high or low strike rates, you need to have a healthy average if you want to make serious impact as a batsman in test matches. If high strike rate is founded on high average, then you are a deadly batsman - this was true in the case of Viv, Sehwag, Gilchrist etc. With a test average of 31, you aren't likely to be a century maker and hence the overall impact with the bat will be minimal. Dev had a carefree attitude towards batting, and during the 80s this kind of batting will leave you susceptible to early dismissals.

first of all let us take Sehwag out of the 3 names you mentioned. Sehwag was a beast in subcontinent. but in swinging conditions he was not up to the mark in str: rate as well as in avg: and also in impact scores.being some one with an avg: of almost 50 you would expect him to score a lot of 90+ scores( i am taking here 90 as cut off because Kapil's over all avg: is 31.05 and i place 55 for him to be an average big score. based on that Sehwag's score is 49.5/31.05 * 55 = 88 , ie almost 90. how many 90+ scores Sehwag has in
NZL,SAF & ENG which were quality knocks in every sense? .More over, even in Sehwag's 90+ knocks in 5 alien countries ( WI + AUS added to those 3)
who were the great bowlers he faced ? baring Pollock i don't remember any bowler that can be termed as 'great' against whom Sehwag made a 90+ score
Compare that to Kapil .bowlers he faced were Mar, Gar, Rob, Hol, Don, Sch, Bob, Bot, Reid,Mc'mott & ofcourse Imran2(who averaged almost around 15 or so for several years).And what not Kapil literally butchered them in his big scores with huge str: rates .In addition to that several of these knocks were played in very critical match situations and almost single handedly. So KAPIL was multi dimensionally brilliant to Sehwag in alien countries.


Gilchrist too had his advantages because he played in an all time best eleven who used to win almost every thing on their way.quite naturally he has a higher percentage of big scores in team inns where the strong top order would have shred the bowling attack to pieces.Viv also had such advantages.

AND MOST importantly, leave Viv & Gil't alone . despite having all advantages we can't compare Kapil to both of them because they were superior batsmen.
i also agree with you in that Kapil had a little carefree attitude.but then when you play with such a high str: rate of 80.91 you may be prone to get out more often. that is natural. but when the comparison is with Imran i can't agree with what you said. whether it be high str: rate or care free attitude, Kapil matched Imran in runs/inns value and was a lot bettter in sevral other factors

 

[therealAB]

A good batsmen, but flattered by his average. Nowhere near Miller or Botham for example

 

[Hitman]

A good batsmen, but flattered by his average. Nowhere near Miller or Botham for example

Pretty decent # 6 towards the later half of his career.

 

[therealAB]

Pretty decent # 6 towards the later half of his career.

Agreed, but inflated due to lots of not outs. Has very few hundreds comapred to Miller, Botham

 

[Hitman]

Agreed, but inflated due to lots of not outs. Has very few hundreds comapred to Miller, Botham

Agreed. Botham was a far superior batsman.

 

[King_Kohli]

Agreed. Botham was a far superior batsman.

What about Garry Sobers? How good he was?

Best allrounders chronological order
Garry Sobers, Ian Botham and Kallis.
Correct me if I am wrong.

 

[Slog]

lol miss [MENTION=94469]Feroz Rawther[/MENTION] guy

he claimed Kapil was better than Imran as captain, batsman and bowler and in both formats. He would write long essays on it and believed if you say something enough times it becomes true lol

 

[Slog]

What about Garry Sobers? How good he was?

Best allrounders chronological order
Garry Sobers, Ian Botham and Kallis.
Correct me if I am wrong.

Botham was def a big game player (and biggest games for him were Ashes where he performed so his legacy multiplies in English media) but he is not top 3 imo.

Kallis for some reason never gets included in this conversation.

 

[Ab Fan]

Imran is a legendary captain also so that adds up. But in fielding department, he was probably the weakest of the four.

 

[sindhiboy]

Just noticed Imran khans batting was exactly that of misbahs. He just looks like a thinner Misbah ul haq when batting.