How good was Michael Atherton really?

[sensible-indian-fan]

Sometimes cricket focuses too much on the superstars and ATGs while almost no attention is given to players who weren't at that level but warriors nonetheless.

I feel Michael Atherton is one of them.

Had to play for a England (a lulloo side those days) and face the Saffer quicks, WI quicks and Aussie quicks on a regular basis on those English tracks.

Averages 39.14 as opener with good away numbers.

He started declining by the time I started watching cricket but from what I have heard....I can tell this guy was way better than what his stats seem to suggest.

Heard he was the shining ray of hope for that 90s English side.

So how good was he really?

Where do you place him amongst the modern day openers?

One of the best of the modern era?

Would like to hear the views of those who watched him play LIVE in his pomp.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

And oh by the way, he is easily the best commie in the world now.

 

[MMHS]

Awesome, awesome Test opener - a Cambridge grad & a wonderful personality. He was unfortunate to play too many Ashes Tests when Mac was at his best with new ball, otherwise his stats would have been far better. Still, his average of 38 is one of the biggest statistical surprise for me - Ken Barrington averages 58 in Test, I am not sure how many will put him over Athers.

Apart from stats, I see players in "big moments" - his innings at J'Burg & that Nottingham morning tells me that, he under achieved lot, like another opener of his time, who also averages almost identical - Amir Sohail.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Awesome, awesome Test opener - a Cambridge grad & a wonderful personality. He was unfortunate to play too many Ashes Tests when Mac was at his best with new ball, otherwise his stats would have been far better. Still, his average of 38 is one of the biggest statistical surprise for me - Ken Barrington averages 58 in Test, I am not sure how many will put him over Athers.

Apart from stats, I see players in "big moments" - his innings at J'Burg & that Nottingham morning tells me that, he under achieved lot, like another opener of his time, who also averages almost identical - Amir Sohail.

Its truly a shame that no hopers like Dhawan, Hafeez, Shehzad average more than him as openers. Even Dilshan and Attapattu average more than him.

How would you rate Athers compared to Strauss, Vaughan - both of whom averaged more than him as openers?

Also where would you place him amongst English bats in the modern era?

 

[jeetu]

He was decent opener for most part. But he was subpar against Australia (avg less than 30).

 

[OS_89]

Watched him through the 90s and I think it's easy to overrate him looking back. Look, he was a gritty customer and had great determination and concentration. Which is why he was able to produce some amazing innings vs likes Donald and co.

But he had some major technical deficiencies which are glossed over by our rose-tinted glasses. He had a tendency to get squared up to shortish deliveries seaming away outside off and also used to poke a lot at balls at 4th-5th stump line (think Gautam Gambhir fishing outside off stump, though not quite as bad).

Overall, decent opener, but not even close to great.

 

[Navdeep Srivastava]

One of the best opener, don't look at his average, he faced Macgrath, Donald, Pollock, Wasim, Walsh, Ambrose in his prime on regular seaming pitches, I still remember his hundred against great Donald , fast klusener, Pollock in Ist test of 98 test series.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Watched him through the 90s and I think it's easy to overrate him looking back. Look, he was a gritty customer and had great determination and concentration. Which is why he was able to produce some amazing innings vs likes Donald and co.

But he had some major technical deficiencies which are glossed over by our rose-tinted glasses. He had a tendency to get squared up to shortish deliveries seaming away outside off and also used to poke a lot at balls at 4th-5th stump line (think Gautam Gambhir fishing outside off stump, though not quite as bad).

Overall, decent opener, but not even close to great.

Very interesting post.

Where would you place him amongst English openers in modern era?

 

[Robert]

So how good was he really?

Where do you place him amongst the modern day openers?

One of the best of the modern era?

Would like to hear the views of those who watched him play LIVE in his pomp.

Athers was pretty good. He was tough, standing up to Donald in that epic duel of wills. He faced a lot of top fast bowling, also Warne and Murali. He has bad figures against McGarth but by that time in his career was sufferring from a bad back, which McG noticed and exploited.

I would put him a bit behind Boycott and Gooch, and Stewart too when the latter played as an opener and not a keeper.

He tended to be the anchor of the side - when he failed, England often collapsed.

He was key to England's successes in Pakistan and SL on the 2000 tour.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Athers was pretty good. He was tough, standing up to Donald in that epic duel of wills. He faced a lot of top fast bowling, also Warne and Murali. He has bad figures against McGarth but by that time in his career was sufferring from a bad back, which McG noticed and exploited.

I would put him a bit behind Boycott and Gooch, and Stewart too when the latter played as an opener and not a keeper.

He tended to be the anchor of the side - when he failed, England often collapsed.

He was key to England's successes in Pakistan and SL on the 2000 tour.

That's cool.

After Boycott, Gooch and Stewart...you would rate Athers ahead of Strauss and Vaughan....right?

Athers did face way better bowlers than them.

What about Cook?

 

[Markhor]

Tough, stubborn opener capable of terrific rearguard efforts when he needed to save a Test for his side, whose record is actually respectable given he faced some incredible new ball bowling.

His battles with Donald were some of my fondest cricket memories as a kid - Trent Bridge 1998 was cricket at its gladiatorial best.

Struggled against McGrath and his back issues let to his eventual retirement.

Where is Atherton in the patheon of English openers ? Boycott and Gooch are ahead of him, as are Hutton and Hobbs, but I'd put him ahead of Strauss and Vaughan.

Cook ? Hmm...I'd say Cook is one of England's best ever players of spin but I don't think he'd fare as well against the quality of pace Atherton did.

 

[Hasan123]

I was going to make a thread about him also. He's underated for me. He was very gritty and played some good knocks. A bright light in a poor era for English cricket.

 

[AlphaFighter]

Captaincy ruined his batting stats.

 

[Mamoon]

Very gutsy player, but didn't have the talent to complement his guts. If he had Stewart's ability, he would have been an ATG.

 

[Varun]

Sounds like Aakash Chopra, only that he had a full career.

 

[OS_89]

Very interesting post.

Where would you place him amongst English openers in modern era?

Comfortably behind Cook and Gooch for sure but better than Strauss. I'd also say from his own era Stewart and Thorpe were superior batsmen.

 

[Zaz]

He was similar to the modern day cook, pretty good

He was gutsy and the key english wicket in a poor team, playing in the 90s in english conditions was tough when you had to face the likes of walsh, ambrose, mcgrath, donald, pollock, wasim and waqar with the new cherry Theres no where to hide

He had his flaws outside off stump but he also had a chronic back condition throughout most of his career which he managed

You can easily add 5-6 runs on his career avge if he was around today

 

[OS_89]

He was key to England's successes in Pakistan and SL on the 2000 tour.

Thorpe was definitely the key to both those series, especially SL. He handled Murali like a champ.

 

[soso_killer]

Atherton was a hard man. Cut from the same cloth as Graeme Smith and Steve Waugh. He had guts and loved a good fight.
His duels with Donald are still ingrained in my memory. He's the sort of guy you'd go to war with. Not many players fit that description.
His stats are misleading, an average of 37 shouldn't be taken at face value, especially taking into account the quality of the bowlers he faced and the conditions.
That average is worth at least 45 today.

If I'm not mistaken he had to battle through a dodgy back throughout his career. Sums up the toughness of the man, very good player.

 

[GLORY OF '92]

He was similar to the modern day cook, pretty good

He was gutsy and the key english wicket in a poor team, playing in the 90s in english conditions was tough when you had to face the likes of walsh, ambrose, mcgrath, donald, pollock, wasim and waqar with the new cherry Theres no where to hide

He had his flaws outside off stump but he also had a chronic back condition throughout most of his career which he managed

You can easily add 5-6 runs on his career avge if he was around today

More like 10.

Would comfortably be the best opener if playing currently.

 

[soso_killer]

Sometimes cricket focuses too much on the superstars and ATGs while almost no attention is given to players who weren't at that level but warriors nonetheless.

I feel Michael Atherton is one of them.

Had to play for a England (a lulloo side those days) and face the Saffer quicks, WI quicks and Aussie quicks on a regular basis on those English tracks.

Averages 39.14 as opener with good away numbers.

He started declining by the time I started watching cricket but from what I have heard....I can tell this guy was way better than what his stats seem to suggest.

Heard he was the shining ray of hope for that 90s English side.

So how good was he really?

Where do you place him amongst the modern day openers?

One of the best of the modern era?

Would like to hear the views of those who watched him play LIVE in his pomp.

in terms of modern day cricketers who weren't ATG,try to think of VVS Laxman.
That should give you an idea how mentally tough this guy was.
Had to do all that whilst opening the batting against world class bowlers in tough conditions.

 

[soso_killer]

Watched him through the 90s and I think it's easy to overrate him looking back. Look, he was a gritty customer and had great determination and concentration. Which is why he was able to produce some amazing innings vs likes Donald and co.

But he had some major technical deficiencies which are glossed over by our rose-tinted glasses. He had a tendency to get squared up to shortish deliveries seaming away outside off and also used to poke a lot at balls at 4th-5th stump line (think Gautam Gambhir fishing outside off stump, though not quite as bad).

Overall, decent opener, but not even close to great.

I'm sure his dodgy back had a lot to do with that.
It's what makes his innings in Jo'burg one of the best I've ever seen. Donald tried to blast him out, even swore at him but he wouldn't bulge.

 

[saajidrox]

One of the best opener, don't look at his average, he faced Macgrath, Donald, Pollock, Wasim, Walsh, Ambrose in his prime on regular seaming pitches, I still remember his hundred against great Donald , fast klusener, Pollock in Ist test of 98 test series.

Yup. Atherton was a stubborn opener not a big frame but ain't afraid to take Merv Hughes.
Allan Donald in response to the hardest to bowl to 1)Lara 2)SRT 3) you guessed it he took on some fearsome spells of Allan Donald some other legendary bowlers at that time.
Then again he hold this record as well but no harm those are some legends of the game.



he had some embarrassing moments 99 run out but nothing like this comedy gold.

Then again with Waqar reply by Atherton cheeky

Real important figure for the game of Cricket Good Opener always liked him but the best commie part OP no he is the second best right now for me Fazeer is the best ATM.

Does anyone know the toothpick story? was that Athers?

 

[Robert]

That's cool.

After Boycott, Gooch and Stewart...you would rate Athers ahead of Strauss and Vaughan....right?

Athers did face way better bowlers than them.

What about Cook?

Actually no, because I remember Vaughan taking McGrath and Warne apart in their backyard with three centuries. When he was really on form he was unstoppable, like a right-handed Lara. But the captaincy messed up his batting.

Athers, Strauss, Cook, all about the same for me. The first two were probably better players of good quick bowling than the latter, but Cook was the best against spinners.

 

[Markhor]

Atherton was a hard man. Cut from the same cloth as Graeme Smith and Steve Waugh. He had guts and loved a good fight.
His duels with Donald are still ingrained in my memory. He's the sort of guy you'd go to war with. Not many players fit that description.
His stats are misleading, an average of 37 shouldn't be taken at face value, especially taking into account the quality of the bowlers he faced and the conditions.
That average is worth at least 45 today.

If I'm not mistaken he had to battle through a dodgy back throughout his career. Sums up the toughness of the man, very good player.

Cricket at its gladiatorial best. This is a distillation of why I love this sport and why we need engrossing battles between bat and ball like this:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/JojnoSO4MDc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Saj]

Technically superb.

Not the greatest to watch but he made the bowlers worl hard for his wicket.

Mentally very tough and a batsman who wasn't afraid to battle it out with the top bowlers.

 

[Dark Magician]

I'll never forget that 185 in Johannesburg. Donald and co tried to blast him out but he fought till the end. Once he was in it was bloody tough to get him out. His average is very very misleading. But then again maybe just maybe he wasn't good enough.

 

[Khaseer]

Much better than his stats suggest. Don't think Strauss for example was better than him.

 

[Junaids]

I was at school with Athers.

He was initially a year ahead of me, but at our school half the kids did their O Levels in 5 years (him) and half did them in 4 years (me) so I caught up with him.

We had a brilliant school team - Athers, Mark Crawley (who played for Notts) and Gary Yates (Lancashire spinner). I was nowhere near getting into the team.

Even then, Athers had a brilliant defence. Nobody could beat our team.

His biggest problem in many ways as England skipper was that the bowling was moderate but also, more damagingly, he had Raymond Illingworth as coach/supremo long after Illy had lost the plot.

But also, it was the era in which match-fixing became endemic everywhere. No international player in the period 1993-1999 could really trust anything at all that his teammates did. There are a lot of comments in this thread about statistics, but I think all stats for both 50 overs and Test cricket from 1993-1999 are compromised. You only need to look at events in the 1999 World Cup - especially involving Hansie Cronje - to realise that.

So with Athers it largely comes down to his own personal achievements, like his 185 not out to save a Test in South Africa.

 

[todfod 11]

not good enough.. i remember him as 20 to 30 odd run player.

 

[Adijazz1706]

And oh by the way, he is easily the best commie in the world now.

Nass and Ponting are close, Ponting's analysis is really amazing, shows how good a captain he was. Then you have Ravi 'cliche' Shastri

 

[Convict]

Its hard to rate him as an Australian because Glenn McGrath dominated him so much that he never really did anything against us

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Nass and Ponting are close, Ponting's analysis is really amazing, shows how good a captain he was. Then you have Ravi 'cliche' Shastri

Haven't heard Ponting much. Nass is good obviously.

Shastri has no insight. Just will repeat cliches.

Ganguly is a good commie though doesn't do it these days. He adds value when he talks. Doesn't mindlessly mumble something.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Can people mention any other memorable knocks apart from the Donald one?

 

[Ashraful_Rox]

He always got out to McGrath, that's all I remember

 

[Ashraful_Rox]

Nass and Ponting are close, Ponting's analysis is really amazing, shows how good a captain he was. Then you have Ravi 'cliche' Shastri

Ravi isn't bad, he states the obvious

 

[gibsyhesperis]

Technically very accomplished and as a young teenager was seen as the best young player in the country.
Not well known was that he had a medical condition called ankylosing spondylitis (associated with his bowel condition, ulcerative colitis). Results in severe inflammation of the lower spine -- most of the time he was playing in pain which also impacted his mobility at the crease.
His guts kept him performing

 

[Tusker]

Can people mention any other memorable knocks apart from the Donald one?

None!. But such is the blatant hypocrisy in the cricket world that just one mind bending blockathon is good enough for rating a player. Try asking for the same consideration for Gambhir due to his mega inngs in NZ and see how the responses will be.

The thing is the English are absolute masters at hyping their players. They have not produced one bowler that has taken more than 500 wkts and untill recently not a single batsman above 10K runs or 25 Test Hundreds yet there is no shortage English legends. And if you mention ODI's the response is one that is based on indignation as though you are not worthy of discussing cricket.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

None!. But such is the blatant hypocrisy in the cricket world that just one mind bending blockathon is good enough for rating a player. Try asking for the same consideration for Gambhir due to his mega inngs in NZ and see how the responses will be.

The thing is the English are absolute masters at hyping their players. They have not produced one bowler that has taken more than 500 wkts and untill recently not a single batsman above 10K runs or 25 Test Hundreds yet there is no shortage English legends. And if you mention ODI's the response is one that is based on indignation as though you are not worthy of discussing cricket.

I get your point (about rating players) but I think you are being way too harsh on Athers.

To open in 90s on English tracks facing Saffer, WI and Aussie quicks and average 39 is no joke.

Can't even hide with not outs as he is an opener.

He obviously must have done something right.

I think Anderson is an amazing bowler. Maybe not ATG but ATGesque when in zone.

 

[Markhor]

Its hard to rate him as an Australian because Glenn McGrath dominated him so much that he never really did anything against us

Yep, McGrath dismissed Atherton 19 times - a record for any bowler against one batsman. And I thought Shan Masood had it bad against Jimmy Anderson. He averaged under 30 vs Australia.

 

[yasir_shah_fan]

Had he played in the current era may have averaged the same as Cook without the same longevity given his back issues

 

[Robert]

One thing that hurt his figures was 20 ducks in 212 innings.

I am not in favour of opening batsman skippers because they have no time to think about batting after fielding and setting fields and making bowling changes for hours. Vaughan, Strauss and Cook were also impaired by this problem, though Gooch actually got better. I expect, that when Cook finally hands the armband to Root, his run production will climb. Root would do well to drop to #4 or #5.

By the way, Athers averaged 37.69 not 39.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

...

 

[Robert]

39 as opener.

Fair enough, I remember he came in at #3 behind Gooch and Stewart for a while.

 

[MenInG]

Josh de Caires, son of ex-England captain Michael Atherton

Curious this - normally people flaunt their father's name to get an advantage but seems this young guy wants to keep the pressure off himself - and is doing well also

==

Josh de Caires, the son of ex-England captain Michael Atherton, scored an unbeaten century against Yorkshire for Leeds-Bradford Universities.

The 18-year-old, who signed a contract with Middlesex last year, retired on 118 on the third and final day of the friendly at Headingley on Wednesday.

De Caires batted for 292 balls against a strong Yorkshire attack preparing for the new County Championship season.

The university side declared at 382-9 in reply to Yorkshire's 485-5 declared.

The three-day match ended as a draw, with Yorkshire finishing on 39-1 from 12 overs of their second innings.

England bowler David Willey, plus experienced trio Steven Patterson, Matthew Fisher and Ben Coad, were all part of Yorkshire's attack.

Right-hander De Caires is a product of the Middlesex academy and, although yet to make his first-team debut, featured for the club's Second XI in 2017 aged only 15.

His Middlesex contract runs until 2023 throughout his university studies.

De Caires' father Michael played 115 Tests for England, hitting 7,728 runs with 16 centuries.

Opener Taylor Cornall, 22, also hit 142 from 297 balls for Leeds-Bradford.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/cricket/56586817