How has the world changed since 9/11?

[Indian_Supporter]

On this day 15 years ago the biggest terrorist attack rocked USA and in the process changed the dynamics of the world. American invasion of Afghanistan, Iraq War,emergence of patriotic act, secret phone tapping in the name of security of all american citizens, Syrian migrant crisis and most importantly the emergence of ISIS.

As America prepares to tribute the victims of that fatal day today, 15 years on the world is still not safe from terrorism and its effects can still be felt today.

This image lives forever:

 

[MSaad1237]

The world has become scarier since then..

 

[rahulrulezz]

Definitely was a very sad moment. However, It really helped in cleaning in most of terrorists. India clearly has been helped a lot as US cleaned up most big terrorists and post 9-11, India had few terrorist incidents. I remember in 90s, you will hear one terror incident per month either happening in Kashmir, Delhi, Mumbai etc etc.

 

[JaDed]

Definitely was a very sad moment. However, It really helped in cleaning in most of terrorists. India clearly has been helped a lot as US cleaned up most big terrorists and post 9-11, India had few terrorist incidents. I remember in 90s, you will hear one terror incident per month either happening in Kashmir, Delhi, Mumbai etc etc.

Very True ,Usa has ended up indirectly helping India a lot not to forget Jihad a famous movements of 80's,90's seen as heroic came down tremendously after this incident.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

The day the world changed.

 

[msb314]

Sad, Sad Day.

I still remember it going to school in the morning and my parents had the TV turned on and tried to explain to me what happened....

In school - we had an assembly where our Head Teacher consoled and gave a briefing about what had happened.

That day changed everything forever in many ways - we still feel its effects today in massive ways.

The world was so peaceful back then...

 

[Markhor]

If only Al Gore had been elected in 2000. It is incomprehensible how the Bush administration ignored all the warnings from the intelligence agencies.

Barton Gellman of the WP noted that the infamous Aug 6th memo - "Bin Laden is determined to strike inside the US" was the 36th time the CIA had raised Al Qaeda with President Bush since he took office.

However the Bush neocons were totally preoccupied with Iraq and nailing Saddam Hussein. Could you imagine if Barack Obama failed to act upon 36 different warnings about Al Qaeda including direct threat assessments detailing how they were planning to hijack planes and attack inside US soil ?

Fox News and the right wing media would be calling for a public execution forget impeachment. And the Republican Party is the party of national security ? Hah !

 

[Slog]

If only Al Gore had been elected in 2000. It is incomprehensible how the Bush administration ignored all the warnings from the intelligence agencies.

Barton Gellman of the WP noted that the infamous Aug 6th memo - "Bin Laden is determined to strike inside the US" was the 36th time the CIA had raised Al Qaeda with President Bush since he took office.

However the Bush neocons were totally preoccupied with Iraq and nailing Saddam Hussein. Could you imagine if Barack Obama failed to act upon 36 different warnings about Al Qaeda including direct threat assessments detailing how they were planning to hijack planes and attack inside US soil ?

Fox News and the right wing media would be calling for a public execution forget impeachment. And the Republican Party is the party of national security ? Hah !

These things are easy to point wth the benefit of hindsight.

Warnings such as these were being given with worrying regularity since the 70s when some spectacular communist plot was just around the corner so it became something like the boy who cried wolf kind of situation because the presidents and security agencies had become complacent. So these warnings were rarely given as much attention as one would think due to how often they came.

Did you know that there was no department of homeland security or something similar till 2002?!?!

Most Americans generally lived in a bubble then (imp still do) where they think they won't ever be attacked on the mainland. Even Pearl Harbor was in Hawaii and was during an active war.

So this was certainly something out of realms of imagination

 

[Slog]

If only Al Gore had been elected in 2000. It is incomprehensible how the Bush administration ignored all the warnings from the intelligence agencies.

Barton Gellman of the WP noted that the infamous Aug 6th memo - "Bin Laden is determined to strike inside the US" was the 36th time the CIA had raised Al Qaeda with President Bush since he took office.

However the Bush neocons were totally preoccupied with Iraq and nailing Saddam Hussein. Could you imagine if Barack Obama failed to act upon 36 different warnings about Al Qaeda including direct threat assessments detailing how they were planning to hijack planes and attack inside US soil ?

Fox News and the right wing media would be calling for a public execution forget impeachment. And the Republican Party is the party of national security ? Hah !

Also if you think Al Gore would have been any more active in internal security than Bush ban you are living in some alternate reality. His response would have been interesting though.

 

[The_KING]

Sad day but time to move on from it. I hate that the western media make 9/11 look like the biggest tragedy in the history of mankind every year on this particular day. I'm sick of it.

 

[KingKhanWC]

I guess the truth hurts for you, doesn't it? After all, you do live in the UK where there have been British Muslims who thought America deserved 9/11 while claiming "inside job".

lol. I just don't understand your emotional rhetoric, you're not Dick Cheney are you?

But to put you at ease, when this inside job took place, all British Muslims I spoke to were saddened by the death of innocent people. Yes the US government has been responsible for killing millions around the world , supporting dictators , dropping nukes, state terrorism on a scale never in history but their common civilian jumping off a building to save his life was a distressing site to see.

 

[Strike Rate]

Sad day and the world become a hell for many people after that event but we don't remember those millions of innocents who died after this event in the war against terrorism without even doing anything against anyone.

Not defending any extremist group here they are butchers for sure after all they did and are doing i have no soft corner for those wild animals but blood of thousands and millions of innocents is on uncle sams hand too those who died during afghan/iraq war and now in syra and in other countries as well for the so called democracy thanks to the big games of uncle sam i don't think even 5% of them were those extremists but well to kill 4 or 5 terrorists you can bomb 95 innocents as well and make it 100 because the world population is big enough so it doesn't matter i guess?

9/11 also remind me of famous Musharraf answer to an american journo when he asked him why was ISI sleeping when bin laden was living in Abbotabad? Mush had a brilliant answer for him regarding intel failure. Here is the video clip

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Qo-oCEN1W7g" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[dayvancowboy]

lol. I just don't understand your emotional rhetoric, you're not Dick Cheney are you?

But to put you at ease, when this inside job took place, all British Muslims I spoke to were saddened by the death of innocent people. Yes the US government has been responsible for killing millions around the world , supporting dictators , dropping nukes, state terrorism on a scale never in history but their common civilian jumping off a building to save his life was a distressing site to see.

To put you at ease, I do remember very well of Greek soccer fans burning the US flag at a match against Scotland a few days after the attacks during a moment of silence was being held for the victims.

The response to the attacks in Greece was rather shocking, to say the least. Majority of the respondents stated that America deserved 9/11 in many opinion polls held in the country. Didn't matter if you were left-leaning or right-wing leaning, the only thing united was the notion that America deserved it.

 

[in_cutter]

RIP

Also RIP to the thousands killed by American bombs in response to 9/11. Thousands of innocents that had nothing to do with 9/11.

 

[chacha kashmiri]

And yet there are some Muslims throughout the world do celebrate this "inside job" while cursing the architects of this supposed "inside job".

Noones celebrating it in 2016
Thanks to America's shock and awe programme Yemen,Pakistan,Afghanistan,Iraq , Syria and Kashmir will never be the same again

If it hadn't been for America being drawn into the war against radical Islam terrorism would have thrived in places like Iraq and Syria

 

[KingKhanWC]

To put you at ease, I do remember very well of Greek soccer fans burning the US flag at a match against Scotland a few days after the attacks during a moment of silence was being held for the victims.

The response to the attacks in Greece was rather shocking, to say the least. Majority of the respondents stated that America deserved 9/11 in many opinion polls held in the country. Didn't matter if you were left-leaning or right-wing leaning, the only thing united was the notion that America deserved it.

I'm not the one uptight but thanks anyway.

America is hated around the world esp in countries where it has bullied, invaded, controlled or destroyed. It's not just through armed conflict but by many other means inc propping up despot regimes to economic warfare.

It did gain a lot of sympathy from many people but this didn't last long since it responded 1000X worse than those it claimed to be evil that attacked it. Now it has done so much damage to so many people across so many countries it will always be under threat of 'terrorist' attack. It's a real shame, a country with so much could give so much to the world but instead takes it all for itself.

 

[anuk]

that was the day the islamism was given a face. the world has been fighting against these bigots from that day on to protect our freedoms and liberty. hope one day we will be able to defeat it like we defeated the nazis etc but it is looking unlikely with weak leaders running the world.

 

[90MPH]

You use the same logic Americans utilize when it comes to rationalizing Hiroshima and Nagasaki, by saying that the Japanese got a taste of their own medicine for attacking Pearl Harbor and occupying most of East Asia.

Eh no I am not.

I didn't use the American Nuke weapons argument for a reason and that being it was during the most horrific war going across the globe. 50 million died so it's unfair to point to Americas nuke weapons attacks alone, whether it was retaliation or more likely to end the war.

However what was the justification for using chemical weapons on Vietnam ?? What was
threat to America ??

Why is there no anniversary to mark the attacks on them ??

Fact is America is the only country to use both chemical and Nuclear weapons.

Let's not be hypocritical and pretend that this attack happened on America because people just did it for the sake of it.

If you go around the world attacking people, using terrorism to destabilise governments (this has been proven in South America) and use Millay weapons whenever fit but expect no response then they have been incredibly naive.

 

[dayvancowboy]

I'm not the one uptight but thanks anyway.

America is hated around the world esp in countries where it has bullied, invaded, controlled or destroyed. It's not just through armed conflict but by many other means inc propping up despot regimes to economic warfare.

It did gain a lot of sympathy from many people but this didn't last long since it responded 1000X worse than those it claimed to be evil that attacked it. Now it has done so much damage to so many people across so many countries it will always be under threat of 'terrorist' attack. It's a real shame, a country with so much could give so much to the world but instead takes it all for itself.

Didn't say you were uptight at all, I just wanted to point that out to say that there were many, many people in the world that were not Muslim that held views that show their belief that America deserved it.

An American artist named Yngwie Malmsteen dealt with Brazilian rock fans who were chanting "Osama, Osama" while he was playing the Star Spangled Banner later that month: http://www.chartattack.com/news/2001/10/12/yngwie-malmsteen-controversy-addressed/

 

[Strike Rate]

Eh no I am not.

I didn't use the American Nuke weapons argument for a reason and that being it was during the most horrific war going across the globe. 50 million died so it's unfair to point to Americas nuke weapons attacks alone, whether it was retaliation or more likely to end the war.

However what was the justification for using chemical weapons on Vietnam ?? What was
threat to America ??

Why is there no anniversary to mark the attacks on them ??

Fact is America is the only country to use both chemical and Nuclear weapons.

Let's not be hypocritical and pretend that this attack happened on America because people just did it for the sake of it.

If you go around the world attacking people, using terrorism to destabilise governments (this has been proven in South America) and use Millay weapons whenever fit but expect no response then they have been incredibly naive.

Top post fully agree with you here

 

[Muhammad10]

This is not the appropriate thread for a political discussion. Please refrain from making any further posts of a political nature. Thanks.

 

[dirk diggler]

Remember the day so clearly , my friend and I were attending a car auction in Measham, we were waiting to bid on s really tidy 1999 bmw318is coupe . The auctioneer started rambling that the worlds going crazy

 

[dirk diggler]

Missed out on the car

 

[Hadi Rizvi]

Eh no I am not.

I didn't use the American Nuke weapons argument for a reason and that being it was during the most horrific war going across the globe. 50 million died so it's unfair to point to Americas nuke weapons attacks alone, whether it was retaliation or more likely to end the war.

However what was the justification for using chemical weapons on Vietnam ?? What was
threat to America ??

Why is there no anniversary to mark the attacks on them ??

Fact is America is the only country to use both chemical and Nuclear weapons.

Let's not be hypocritical and pretend that this attack happened on America because people just did it for the sake of it.

If you go around the world attacking people, using terrorism to destabilise governments (this has been proven in South America) and use Millay weapons whenever fit but expect no response then they have been incredibly naive.

Fully agree with you here. Americans and their allies expect the children of the victims not to retaliate against them which is, as you said, incredibly naive.

 

[Markhor]

These things are easy to point wth the benefit of hindsight.

Hindsight is not required when Bush received SEVEN briefings about the possibility of an AQ attack in 2001 alone. He HAD the information in front of him which was much more than AQ crying wolf.

Warnings such as these were being given with worrying regularity since the 70s when some spectacular communist plot was just around the corner so it became something like the boy who cried wolf kind of situation

I accept the idea of AQ hijacking planes and attacking inside US soil may sound fantastical to you and I. However if you're President of the United States and you've received SEVEN briefings about AQ plotting to attack inside the US, including the threat of plane hijackings - a competent President should be acting on the info instead of sitting on his rear-end in Crawford. Let me quote from Kurt Eichenwald of the NYT documenting the CIA's frustrations with the White House's inaction:

And the C.I.A. repeated the warnings in the briefs that followed. Operatives connected to Bin Laden, one reported on June 29, expected the planned near-term attacks to have “dramatic consequences,” including major casualties. On July 1, the brief stated that the operation had been delayed, but “will occur soon.” Some of the briefs again reminded Mr. Bush that the attack timing was flexible, and that, despite any perceived delay, the planned assault was on track.

Yet, the White House failed to take significant action. Officials at the Counterterrorism Center of the C.I.A. grew apoplectic. On July 9, at a meeting of the counterterrorism group, one official suggested that the staff put in for a transfer so that somebody else would be responsible when the attack took place, two people who were there told me in interviews. The suggestion was batted down, they said, because there would be no time to train anyone else.

Also if you think Al Gore would have been any more active in internal security than Bush ban you are living in some alternate reality. His response would have been interesting though.

Al Gore wasn't a lazy imbecile like Bush and would've actually listened to his security team warning him that an attack was imminent.

The Republican Administration miserably failed on 9/11, it could've been prevented and they do not deserve the moniker of being "strong on defence" given this epic failure.

 

[Slog]

Hindsight is not required when Bush received SEVEN briefings about the possibility of an AQ attack in 2001 alone. He HAD the information in front of him which was much more than AQ crying wolf.


I accept the idea of AQ hijacking planes and attacking inside US soil may sound fantastical to you and I. However if you're President of the United States and you've received SEVEN briefings about AQ plotting to attack inside the US, including the threat of plane hijackings - a competent President should be acting on the info instead of sitting on his rear-end in Crawford. Let me quote from Kurt Eichenwald of the NYT documenting the CIA's frustrations with the White House's inaction:




Al Gore wasn't a lazy imbecile like Bush and would've actually listened to his security team warning him that an attack was imminent.

The Republican Administration miserably failed on 9/11, it could've been prevented and they do not deserve the moniker of being "strong on defence" given this epic failure.

The claim regarding Al Gore is simply laughable and conjecture on your part and nothing in his history prior to the election and even after that suggests that he would have been more clued up or more decisive in such matters.

Ofcourse it was an intelligence failure on part of the bush administration but to claim that Al Gore or for that matter any other administration would have been more proactive is just disingenuous and the claim simply does not hold whether you look it through the prism of precedence or how the US agencies functioned Uptil that point

But Ofcourse you can ignore all that and hold onto this belief because it suits you.

 

[Markhor]

The claim regarding Al Gore is simply laughable and conjecture on your part and nothing in his history prior to the election and even after that suggests that he would have been more clued up or more decisive in such matters.

Ofcourse it was an intelligence failure on part of the bush administration but to claim that Al Gore or for that matter any other administration would have been more proactive is just disingenuous and the claim simply does not hold whether you look it through the prism of precedence or how the US agencies functioned Uptil that point

But Ofcourse you can ignore all that and hold onto this belief because it suits you.

Oh not just Al Gore, but any administration with an IOTA of competence would've acted on the intelligence and not have sat on their hands after seven briefings.

A CIA official went to Bush in Crawford to deliver the Aug 6th memo and you know how Dubya replied ? "You've covered your ***. Now go home." (http://www.salon.com/2006/06/20/911pdb/)

Explain that one [MENTION=138463]Slog[/MENTION] - for a party whose MO is supposedly national security that was appalling dereliction of duty - if you're a responsible leader who genuinely cares for the security of your citizens you wouldn't make such crass remarks.

So its laughable to say I'm using the benefit of hindsight and that "9/11 couldn't have been seen coming" when the intelligence officials THEMSELVES had detailed info of AQ plotting to attack inside US soil (this wasn't crying wolf - these were well evidenced reports - go read) and were pulling their hair out that Bush's neocons weren't taking them seriously, believing it was a diversion from Saddam.

 

[from_da_lost_dim3nsion]

The world changed for worse. It was such a simpler world before 9/11.

 

[SL_Fan]

I still remember seeing the news on telly early morning before heading off to school. Couldn't really process the whole thing or understand the seriousness of it all at the time but looking back the world definitely changed that day. No doubt about that. Mostly for the worse. Although some positives also came out of it especially from a SL point of view. Terrorism started to be taken a lot more seriously around the world and that definitely helped in wiping out LTTE (freezing of funds abroad, cutting off supplies, international sting operations etc).

 

[Slog]

Oh not just Al Gore, but any administration with an IOTA of competence would've acted on the intelligence and not have sat on their hands after seven briefings.

A CIA official went to Bush in Crawford to deliver the Aug 6th memo and you know how Dubya replied ? "You've covered your ***. Now go home." (http://www.salon.com/2006/06/20/911pdb/)

Explain that one [MENTION=138463]Slog[/MENTION] - for a party whose MO is supposedly national security that was appalling dereliction of duty - if you're a responsible leader who genuinely cares for the security of your citizens you wouldn't make such crass remarks.

So its laughable to say I'm using the benefit of hindsight and that "9/11 couldn't have been seen coming" when the intelligence officials THEMSELVES had detailed info of AQ plotting to attack inside US soil (this wasn't crying wolf - these were well evidenced reports - go read) and were pulling their hair out that Bush's neocons weren't taking them seriously, believing it was a diversion from Saddam.

Again your first paragraph is just conjecture which isn't backed by fact as evidenced the failure to act as decisively as you would want on several communist plot warnings in the height of Cold War. It's a different thing that they didn't happen but your claim is just ridiculous and this is an area I am very familiar with.

In any case [MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION], what's your end game here? I have consistently termed The bush administration as incompetent here and held them responsible for the failure to act on intelligence so clearly we are on the same page there. What do you want to say? Are you trying to suggest that somehow and at some level the American agencies or institution were in on this? Who do you blame for 9/11?

 

[the Great Khan]

before 9/11 there had only ever been one suicide attack in Pakistan..I dont need to say anymore.

 

[nish_mate]

before 9/11 there had only ever been one suicide attack in Pakistan..I dont need to say anymore.

Suicide attacks in Pakistan or in any islamic country are fairly ironical considering Islam does not approve of suicide, hence never understood suicide attacks by those supposed Muslims.

PS TGK- not a go at Muslims but at those fools who blow themselves in hope getting fast tracked to heaven.

World has changed, airport security and going to states used to be breeze, now get randomly chosen to special attention in every country be it Denmark or Russia or Malaysia.

 

[the Great Khan]

Suicide attacks in Pakistan or in any islamic country are fairly ironical considering Islam does not approve of suicide, hence never understood suicide attacks by those supposed Muslims.

PS TGK- not a go at Muslims but at those fools who blow themselves in hope getting fast tracked to heaven.

World has changed, airport security and going to states used to be breeze, now get randomly chosen to special attention in every country be it Denmark or Russia or Malaysia.

Your absolutley right. It also shows that we are suffering from the end of the cold war and the policies of the soviet union and the US during that period. The subversion of Islam by the saudis and the US and its realted blowback is really distressing.

People dont realise how Muslim society is suffering due to short term thinking, exploitation and power hungry despotism.

The US and its allies have found a way to create perpetual war wherever they need it. On demand and bespoke. Its a great way to ensure your dominance and to create situations that you can exploit over the next fifty years.

But where there is darkness there is also hints of light. Muslims are coming out of their post colonial stupor and Muslim societies are moving quickly towards a tipping point that will ultimatley challenge the old world order. The first indication will be the end of the syrian war and al assads progress when he finally wins it.

by the way A muslim is not allowed to attack or kill another muslim hence why we get takfir. we also get erroneous justifications for suicide attacks. But people are beginning to reject this ideology and are increasingly interested in normative and traditional Islam.

 

[Syed1]

Sad day for the USA. Even sadder day for the rest of humanity, since the US had killed close to a million people since then.

 

[MenInG]

I remember speaking to colleagues in one of the towers as they told us that they were evacuating due to a fire somewhere in the building and all this time we could see the plane had crashed in their building!

 

[Markhor]

Again your first paragraph is just conjecture which isn't backed by fact as evidenced the failure to act as decisively as you would want on several communist plot warnings in the height of Cold War. It's a different thing that they didn't happen but your claim is just ridiculous and this is an area I am very familiar with.

In any case [MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION], what's your end game here? I have consistently termed The bush administration as incompetent here and held them responsible for the failure to act on intelligence so clearly we are on the same page there. What do you want to say? Are you trying to suggest that somehow and at some level the American agencies or institution were in on this? Who do you blame for 9/11?

OK I'll sum up in closing my arguments:

1) No other group of politicians had the obsession over Iraq that the Bush neocons did - an obsession at the expense of dealing with Bin Laden, a more imminent threat. Bush/Cheney disbelieved intelligence that didn't chime with their worldview but were willing to swallow the FAR flakier intelligence reports on WMDs and Saddam. So its NOT a stretch to believe another administration, Gore or even Bush Snr, wouldn't have been so blinded by ideology and would've taken the AQ threat more seriously. Is this such a hard point to accept ?

BTW the outgoing Clinton-Gore Administration left a detailed plan on capturing Bin Laden. Bush did ZILCH for 9 months and sidelined the counter-terrorism chief Richard Clarke who gave repeated warnings on AQ. To quote Paul Wolfowitz - "why are we focusing so much on this one guy Bin Laden ?"

2) Yes the magnitude of the attack couldn't have been foreseen but the notion of AQ attacking inside US soil wasn't fantastical. They'd already attacked the World Trade Centre in 1993 ! CIA Director George Tenet laid out in July what they described as irrefutable evidence that there will be a significant and spectacular terrorist attack in the coming weeks or months.

But the intelligence authorities including covert action that the CIA officials told Condi Rice they needed, and had been asking for since March, weren’t granted until September 17 ! And intelligence DID document plots to hijack planes plus of young Muslim males attending flying schools in Arizona and Minnesota (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/report-warned-of-suicide-hijackings/). So let's not hide behind the convenience of "hindsight" [MENTION=138463]Slog[/MENTION] !

3) I agree pre-9/11, institutions like FBI/NSA/emergency services weren't as equipped to deal with counter-terrorism as they are today and co-ordination between agencies was poor. One reason why so many firemen died that day was because of ill-functioning radio devices so tragically didn't hear the evacuation calls.

4) If you've read my posts on this subject, I've never stated it was an inside job as all leads pointed to AQ who of course deserve the most condemnation for perpetrating the act. But Bush was responsible for one of the worst displays of dereliction of duty ever from a US President giving Republicans no right to whine about Obama's handling of Benghazi after 3000 Americans dying on THEIR watch in an attack that could've been prevented or at least mitigated.

 

[Markhor]

[MENTION=253]the Great Khan[/MENTION] - intrigued to hear your views on Bush's role too.

Particularly how Bush, according to the NY Post and other reputable sources, let the FBI evacuate dozens of Saudi officials two days after 9/11 including one bin Laden family member on the terrorist watchlist ! Instead of interrogating the Saudis, FBI agents acted as security escorts for them, even though it was known at the time that 15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudi citizens !

I guess Bush was repaying the Saudis and the Bin Laden family for bailing out his oil company when he nearly ran that into the ground in the 80s.

 

[Slog]

OK I'll sum up in closing my arguments:

1) No other group of politicians had the obsession over Iraq that the Bush neocons did - an obsession at the expense of dealing with Bin Laden, a more imminent threat. Bush/Cheney disbelieved intelligence that didn't chime with their worldview but were willing to swallow the FAR flakier intelligence reports on WMDs and Saddam. So its NOT a stretch to believe another administration, Gore or even Bush Snr, wouldn't have been so blinded by ideology and would've taken the AQ threat more seriously. Is this such a hard point to accept ?

BTW the outgoing Clinton-Gore Administration left a detailed plan on capturing Bin Laden. Bush did ZILCH for 9 months and sidelined the counter-terrorism chief Richard Clarke who gave repeated warnings on AQ. To quote Paul Wolfowitz - "why are we focusing so much on this one guy Bin Laden ?"

2) Yes the magnitude of the attack couldn't have been foreseen but the notion of AQ attacking inside US soil wasn't fantastical. They'd already attacked the World Trade Centre in 1993 ! CIA Director George Tenet laid out in July what they described as irrefutable evidence that there will be a significant and spectacular terrorist attack in the coming weeks or months.

But the intelligence authorities including covert action that the CIA officials told Condi Rice they needed, and had been asking for since March, weren’t granted until September 17 ! And intelligence DID document plots to hijack planes plus of young Muslim males attending flying schools in Arizona and Minnesota (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/report-warned-of-suicide-hijackings/). So let's not hide behind the convenience of "hindsight" [MENTION=138463]Slog[/MENTION] !

3) I agree pre-9/11, institutions like FBI/NSA/emergency services weren't as equipped to deal with counter-terrorism as they are today and co-ordination between agencies was poor. One reason why so many firemen died that day was because of ill-functioning radio devices so tragically didn't hear the evacuation calls.

4) If you've read my posts on this subject, I've never stated it was an inside job as all leads pointed to AQ who of course deserve the most condemnation for perpetrating the act. But Bush was responsible for one of the worst displays of dereliction of duty ever from a US President giving Republicans no right to whine about Obama's handling of Benghazi after 3000 Americans dying on THEIR watch in an attack that could've been prevented or at least mitigated.

Fair points even if I may not agree fully but no points going in circles and I've got a Eid barbecue party to go to so this takes a backseat

Few closing points:

1) it's good you admit and accept that it was the work of Al Qaeda and terrorist organizations and the blame goes to them fully as far as planning and carrying out the the attack is concerned. Also it's a relief that a poster I respect and whose posts i look forward doesn't subscribe to some insane, crackpot theory where this attack was apparently an inside job or a false flag etc. Infact that's why I have engaged thus far anyway.

2) I think you're giving too much credit to previous administrations and it's purely speculation that they may have acted on this more decisively. As you mention under Clinton, the bombings did take place without any significant steps taken to counter it despite warnings. Additionally in case you don't know a classified report was declassified this year which actually tells us that the first warning signs and credible threats regarding 9/11 type attack was received during the Clinton administration, and the administration's response was to ignore this and state that such a spectacular attack was not realistic and could not be carried out in US soil. And post Bush, in the Obama administration there were credible reports regarding Osama whereabouts but they were not acted upon swiftly either and the response time was slow. So your claim here just does not hold. In any case I blame the Bush administration in this anyways.

3) The train of thought that just because the bush administration had an intelligence failure means that republicans are in no position to point out the errors in Benghazi is pretty childish to say the least. In any case in the US, an administration of one president is generally independent of another administrations. By your logic both parties would have had to shut shop in the 80s because both have had their fair share of failures.

 

[anuk]

I think everybody but the Zionist hand have been blamed in the thread so far. Let's not blame the ideology driving the killers because what do the killers know even though they said so? We know better.

 

[s28]

There's a 9/11 Truther Documentary on ITV Primetime !

Good they start by saying this isn't just conspiracy theory nuts but also Politicians and ex Intelligence Services bods

#JetFuelDoesntMeltSteelBeams

 

[s28]

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[dayvancowboy]

I think everybody but the Zionist hand have been blamed in the thread so far. Let's not blame the ideology driving the killers because what do the killers know even though they said so? We know better.

"They hate us for our freedoms"

If so, then how do you explain the fact that Greece, in stark contrast to other European countries, had a high approval rate of the attacks by the public?

 

[Slog]

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Do you even know whose the guy behind this? Alex Jones!

The hypocrisy is unbelievable. You guys would lambast him and ridicule him rightly for all the things in the world esp his stance on Muslims and Islam

And here this nutcase subscribes to your nutcase theory so suddenly his crap work is 'proof.'

What a joke you guys are. Nothing unexpected though. Wouldn't know irony if it smacks you in the face

 

[dayvancowboy]

Do you even know whose the guy behind this? Alex Jones!

The hypocrisy is unbelievable. You guys would lambast him and ridicule him rightly for all the things in the world esp his stance on Muslims and Islam

And here this nutcase subscribes to your nutcase theory so suddenly his crap work is 'proof.'

What a joke you guys are. Nothing unexpected though. Wouldn't know irony if it smacks you in the face

It's hilarious how so many Muslims would be so eager to kiss up to conspiracy theorists that don't like Muslims to begin with.

 

[s28]

Notice how quick the apologists for the Establishment line are to try to move debate away from facts and to ad-homs. Alex Jones was a minor figure involved in later editions of Loose Change.

I simply cited it here because it was featured in the ITV Prime time documentary referred to above.

 

[anuk]

"They hate us for our freedoms"

If so, then how do you explain the fact that Greece, in stark contrast to other European countries, had a high approval rate of the attacks by the public?

any links to this approval rate? i can;t imagine anybody but an islamist getting enjoyment out of killing innocent people.

 

[the Great Khan]

any links to this approval rate? i can;t imagine anybody but an islamist getting enjoyment out of killing innocent people.

oh there are plenty of people who get a kick out of killing innocent people for example right wing Hindus, christians and buddhists. White terrorists who go around kicking pregnant women in the stomach to kill their child and other miscreants like extremem left wing radicals happy to kill the capitalists..

 

[MenInG]

any links to this approval rate? i can;t imagine anybody but an islamist getting enjoyment out of killing innocent people.

Was this a serious question?

 

[dayvancowboy]

any links to this approval rate? i can;t imagine anybody but an islamist getting enjoyment out of killing innocent people.

You don't seem to get it. It's not just Muslims that feel victimized by US foreign policy.

Here's one, from The Guardian's own Athens correspondent Helena Smith: http://www.newstatesman.com/node/194250

One poll showed that 30 per cent of the population felt justice had been served. Another poll showed that about 25 per cent of respondents felt "satisfied", even "pleased", by the assault. Echoing that sentiment, one prominent conservative commentator compared the culprits to the heroes of Greece's 1821 war of independence.

The most embarrassing display of anti-Americanism came two days after the attacks, when Greek football fans attending an Athens soccer match against Scotland jeered through the minute's silence in memory of the terror victims. The doughty Scots looked on aghast as they destroyed an Israeli flag and then attempted to burn the Stars and Stripes in the stands. "I could not believe such anti-American feeling in a European country," said Alex McLeish, the coach of the Scottish team.

There ya go. Greece's anti-Americanism runs deep so it's not surprising that they were less empathetic in contrast to the rest of Europe. Quite ironic that Bosnia and Kosovo, both with large Muslim populations, had public mourning ceremonies to honor the victims.

oh there are plenty of people who get a kick out of killing innocent people for example right wing Hindus, christians and buddhists. White terrorists who go around kicking pregnant women in the stomach to kill their child and other miscreants like extremem left wing radicals happy to kill the capitalists..

And yet we never see you express condemnation when its your Muslim brothers who unleash mob violence against Ahmadis and Christians over perceived blasphemy nor do we ever see you condemn Muslim men who murder their sisters for not adhering to modesty and/or hurling mass abuse at Muslim girls online who don't cover up. Why is that?

 

[the Great Khan]

You don't seem to get it. It's not just Muslims that feel victimized by US foreign policy.

Here's one, from The Guardian's own Athens correspondent Helena Smith: http://www.newstatesman.com/node/194250



There ya go. Greece's anti-Americanism runs deep so it's not surprising that they were less empathetic in contrast to the rest of Europe. Quite ironic that Bosnia and Kosovo, both with large Muslim populations, had public mourning ceremonies to honor the victims.



And yet we never see you express condemnation when its your Muslim brothers who unleash mob violence against Ahmadis and Christians over perceived blasphemy nor do we ever see you condemn Muslim men who murder their sisters for not adhering to modesty and/or hurling mass abuse at Muslim girls online who don't cover up. Why is that?

what a pathetic typically sectarian comment. The mere fact that you think in a particular way means I will not even entertain a proper response to this garbage.

 

[anuk]

You don't seem to get it. It's not just Muslims that feel victimized by US foreign policy.

Here's one, from The Guardian's own Athens correspondent Helena Smith: http://www.newstatesman.com/node/194250



There ya go. Greece's anti-Americanism runs deep so it's not surprising that they were less empathetic in contrast to the rest of Europe. Quite ironic that Bosnia and Kosovo, both with large Muslim populations, had public mourning ceremonies to honor the victims.



And yet we never see you express condemnation when its your Muslim brothers who unleash mob violence against Ahmadis and Christians over perceived blasphemy nor do we ever see you condemn Muslim men who murder their sisters for not adhering to modesty and/or hurling mass abuse at Muslim girls online who don't cover up. Why is that?

i stand corrected.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

17 years on - really doesn't feel that long.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">18 years after nearly 3,000 people were lost, families of those killed in the terror attacks will gather at the 9/11 memorial. There will be a moment of silence at 8:46 a.m., then the names of the dead — one by one — will be recited. <a href="https://t.co/rFn2evf1dA">https://t.co/rFn2evf1dA</a></p>— The New York Times (@nytimes) <a href="https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1171755128191442946?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 11, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Air traffic map shows how US airspace cleared with mass grounding of planes on 9/11 &#55356;&#56826;&#55356;&#56824;<br><br>Today marks 18 years since the tragic event that killed over 2,000 people. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/September11?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#September11</a> <br><br>For more world news, head here: <a href="https://t.co/ykoGZGdRPI">https://t.co/ykoGZGdRPI</a> <a href="https://t.co/0FFivE5EN2">pic.twitter.com/0FFivE5EN2</a></p>— Sky News (@SkyNews) <a href="https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1171726121651625984?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 11, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Kianig89]

This incident revolutionized the security depts.

Alot of jobs regarding security jave been created since 9/11 the whole world entered a different paradigm after 9/11

 

[MenInG]

19 years ago....

 

[sweep_shot]

I completely forgot today was September 11.

Truly a tragic incident.

I personally think it was an inside job but those people tragically lost their lives.

World has changed a lot. Countries now take security much more seriously. It has resulted in a new world order.

 

[KingKhanWC]

I completely forgot today was September 11.

Truly a tragic incident.

I personally think it was an inside job but those people tragically lost their lives.

World has changed a lot. Countries now take security much more seriously. It has resulted in a new world order.

They wont let you forget and even Muslims are brainwashed by this inside job.

Less than 4000 died on this day, since the 'victims' Yanks and their little elves have killed over 4 million.

911 was to justify looting, murder and desctruction of others.

Shocking there are still idiots who believe the official story.

 

[sweep_shot]

They wont let you forget and even Muslims are brainwashed by this inside job.

Less than 4000 died on this day, since the 'victims' Yanks and their little elves have killed over 4 million.

911 was to justify looting, murder and desctruction of others.

Shocking there are still idiots who believe the official story.

Yup.

It was the launching pad for War on Terror. They ended up destabilizing Iraq (a country that had nothing to do with 9/11).

The way WTC 7 went down was shocking. It felt like a controlled demolition. Also, passport of the hijacker was conveniently found. There were other factors like Larry Silverstein's lease.

Something is not right about the official 9/11 story.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Yup.

It was the launching pad for War on Terror. They ended up destabilizing Iraq (a country that had nothing to do with 9/11).

The way WTC 7 went down was shocking. It felt like a controlled demolition. Also, passport of the hijacker was conveniently found. There were other factors like Larry Silverstein's lease.

Something wasn't right and I believe it was 100% inside job. Official 9/11 story is absolutely horseshit.

What is worse, Dick Cheney was CEO of a company , resigned, became VP and started a war which meant he was paid billions in contract fees by the same company to rebuild Iraq after he bombed it!

USA is a joke but only positive its on the way down now.

 

[FearlessRoar]

Austria carries out raids against 72 alleged Islamic extremists ahead of 9/11 anniversary​

Austrian security forces carried out raids against 72 alleged Islamic extremists this week ahead of the 23th anniversary of the 9/11 attacks in the United States, citing the potential for copycat violence on the date of the plane hijackings that killed nearly 3,000 people.

The raids occurred across the European country on Tuesday, before Wednesday's anniversary, because the 2001 tragedy remains symbolic for extremists and has inspired copycat attempts, the Directorate of State Security and Intelligence said Thursday in a statement.

Authorities thwarted an attempted attack last year on anniversary at the Vienna central station, and the risk remains high on the date around the world, it said.

Tuesday's raids came a month after authorities foiled a plot to attack planned Taylor Swift concerts in Vienna which were then canceled. Austrian officials said the main suspect, a 19-year-old Austrian man, was inspired by the Islamic State group and sought to kill tens of thousands of fans.

The 19-year-old had allegedly uploaded to the internet an oath of allegiance to the current leader of the Islamic State group. Authorities said they also found Islamic State group and al-Qaida material at the home of a second suspect, who is 17.

The actions on Tuesday included raids on several prisons in Austria, as well as interrogations of suspects and seizures of digital devices such as cellphones to look for evidence of radical Islamic propaganda.

Franz Ruf, Austria's director general for public security, appeared to reference the Taylor Swift plot in the statement, saying the last few weeks have shown the importance of cooperation between security agencies to counter extremism.

Interior Minister Gerhard Karner also called for stronger powers for investigators to be able to root out such plots. Currently, Austrian officials often rely on other countries — such as for the Swift concerts, where the CIA discovered the information — because unlike some foreign intelligence services, Austria can’t legally monitor text messages.

Austria carries out raids against 72 alleged Islamic extremists ahead of 9/11 anniversary

Austrian security forces carried out raids against 72 alleged Islamic extremists this week ahead of the 23th anniversary of the 9/11 attacks in the United States, citing the potential for copycat violence on the date of the plane hijackings that killed nearly 3,000 people.

www.ctvnews.ca

 

[Bhaijaan]

Pakistan’s role in 9/11 is worth analysing. They were sheltering Osama Bin Laden which means they knew the plan. They masterfully fooled the Americans during the whole episode.

 

[Hitman]

Pakistan’s role in 9/11 is worth analysing. They were sheltering Osama Bin Laden which means they knew the plan. They masterfully fooled the Americans during the whole episode.

What about Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, a proud Pakistani? Google him.

 

[Bewal Express]

Yes. The murder of 1000s of innocent people was used as launching pad to murder 1000s of other innocent people and today we live in a World of hatred and extremes all exacerbated by digital mass media.

 

[KingKhanWC]

What about Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, a proud Pakistani? Google him.

A man who was waterboarded more than a 140 times , eventually make a plea deal with him so he admits it & saves himself from the death penalty. Lol

 

[Hitman]

A man who was waterboarded more than a 140 times , eventually make a plea deal with him so he admits it & saves himself from the death penalty. Lol

LOL, Pakistanis and their parallel world. I'm pretty sure you have some theories for the ones who perpetrated London bombings as well, right?

 

[KingKhanWC]

Yes. The murder of 1000s of innocent people was used as launching pad to murder 1000s of other innocent people and today we live in a World of hatred and extremes all exacerbated by digital mass media.

Over 4 million deaths due to war on terror policies. They are the same evil .

 

[KingKhanWC]

LOL, Pakistanis and their parallel world. I'm pretty sure you have some theories for the ones who perpetrated London bombings as well, right?

You may watch Bollywood with a walker but try reading the news .

9/11 attack: US reaches plea deal with alleged mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed | CNN Politics

The US has reached a plea deal with alleged 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and two other defendants, according to the Defense Department.

amp.cnn.com

 

[KingKhanWC]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1833817715431387547

 

[KingKhanWC]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1833917396576616597

 

[Hitman]

You may watch Bollywood with a walker but try reading the news .

9/11 attack: US reaches plea deal with alleged mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed | CNN Politics

The US has reached a plea deal with alleged 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and two other defendants, according to the Defense Department.

amp.cnn.com

So what exactly does the prove?

 

[Bewal Express]

Over 4 million deaths due to war on terror policies. They are the same evil .

Horrendous loss of innocent lives in geo political games they have no part in.

 

[sweep_shot]

There is no doubt world was more peaceful and stable before 9/11.

I personally do not believe the official 9/11 story. I believe it was probably done by US government and MOSSAD to further their expansionist agenda (Greater Israeli project and whatnot) and fuel their military industrial complex. In other words, I believe it was an inside job.

Not just me but many Americans also believe this. There is a group called "Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth". You can check here: https://www.ae911truth.org/.

Who benefited the most from 9/11? That answer may open your eyes.

 

[Ball Blazer]

Bernard Kerik, head of New York police during 9/11, dies at 69

Bernard Kerik, New York City's former police commissioner during the 11 September 2001 attacks, has died aged 69.

His death was confirmed by FBI Director Kash Patel, who said the former police officer died Thursday after a "private battle with illness."

Kerik oversaw the police response to the deadliest terrorist attack in US history, and was later appointed by former US President George Bush as head of a provisional police force in Iraq.

He pleaded guilty to charges of tax fraud in 2009 and served three years in prison, though he was pardoned by President Donald Trump in 2020.

Source: BBC