How highly do you rate this Aussie Test bowling attack?

[Saj]

The pace and firepower of Cummins.

The skill and guile of Josh Hazelwood.

The swing, seam and aggression of Starc.

The steady but underrated Nathan Lyon.

Is this the best bowling attack in international cricket and how highly do you rate this bowling attack?

 

[Ab Fan]

Very highly.

Pacers have done very well in Asia too.

 

[HuzaifaE]

As good as anything out there.

Hazlewood has an all time great skillset, there is literally no obvious quality that is lacking in him for a bowler of his ilk. Consistent, persistent, and intelligent.

Starc still isn't quite the test specialist as a whole in terms of consistency, but he does what a top tier fast bowler is meant to do - produce a cracker consistently to get breakthroughs - and he wipes the tail.

Cummins' incredibly talented, can only get better and he's a magnificent bowler to have as your third seamer, not some laborious workhorse: a genuine fast bowler with a stocked inventory of skills.

Lyon is probably the most improved cricketer in the past few years, went from a clear cut meme to almost unarguably the best spinner of his kind in world cricket as of right now.

That four man quartet is sensational, got everything: the thunderous left arm spearhead, a pinpoint accurate right arm fast bowler and an aggressive third seamer who can do it all with a spinner who works brilliantly on pitches with little purchase.

The way to build on it is to have an allrounder finally settle down but I'm not convinced that's Mitch Marsh still. The lack of a complimentary fifth option is the only clear flaw but barring England with Stokes, few in world cricket have someone well established for that role. There is no disputing the quality of the quartet however.

 

[wrongun]

There's no more complete attack in the world right now, in most conditions.

I say most, because I still think we are a second spinner short for Asian conditions and our pace trio has not yet proved they are good enough in Asia to overcome a lack of spinners (as SA & WI have done in the past).

Historically- too early to say but they have the potential to be an atg attack.

There are two modern Australian attacks which I think were just as good at this stage, one for incredible depth of talent & one for achievement.

McGrath, Gillespie, Lee, Warne (Fleming, McGill, C. Miller), late 90s/early 2000s

McGrath, Reiffel, McDermott, Warne (Fleming, S. Waugh's peak allrounder years when he averaged about 25 with the ball over a 5 year span)- early/mid 90s.

 

[Hasan123]

On current form it's the best attack in the world. All 4 bring something different to the table. As long as Australia get enough runs on the board, there bowlers will give them a good chance of winning the game.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Starc does not seam the ball. Cummins and Hazlewood do.

It's the best in the world and potentially the best Australia has had.

 

[mak36]

Starc does not seam the ball. Cummins and Hazlewood do.

It's the best in the world and potentially the best Australia has had.

How have you rated Cummins so far this series?

 

[Chief Destroyer]

How have you rated Cummins so far this series?

Same level as the other two.

 

[giri26]

I had opened a thread few weeks ago claiming this as the best test attack in the world at the moment and I stand by my statement. This is a good all round attack which can do well in all conditions.

 

[New Yorker]

The pace and firepower of Cummins.

The skill and guile of Josh Hazelwood.

The swing, seam and aggression of Starc.

The steady but underrated Nathan Lyon.

Is this the best bowling attack in international cricket and how highly do you rate this bowling attack?

It is very good, but will also tend to be over rated because it corresponds to a certain kind of typological image of what a good bowling attack should look like, chiefly, they are all fastish, plus 140 types. I always encourage a reality a check when people start talking about how varied and complete an attack is. As, in 'with Wahab (pace/aggression) and Irfan (height/bounce) Pakistan have the makings of one of the world's most complete ODI bowling attacks.' What makes a good bowler good, is that not that they are tall, quick, or aggressive, but that they are plainly speaking good, as evidenced by their performance record. Case in point, Hasan Ali. Starc has a claim on being an ODI ATG, but in Tests he is merely very very good. And I don't think we can say more about the rest yet. Hazlewood is the best, averaging 25, both Starc and Cummings average 27. Rabada is a better bowler than all of them, averaging 22, and Steyn may still be on most days of the week. Lyon is indeed an improved spinner, but is he really better than Herath, Ashwin, Jadeja, Yasir, or even Maharaj? The results don't say so, by any stretch. In the subcontinent, I would still back an attack spearheaded by Ashwin and Jadeja and backed up by Bumrah and Shami. As for comparing this attack with McGrath/Warne plus one of Lee/Gillespie; Donald/Pollock/Ntini; Waqar/Wasim/Imran; or any number of great Windies attacks, no, don't see it at all.

 

[mak36]

Same level as the other two.

That surprises me slightly.

He's been good, but he hasn't quite been at his best from what I have seen.

Why you think he has been at the same level as Hazelwood/Starc?

 

[Chief Destroyer]

That surprises me slightly.

He's been good, but he hasn't quite been at his best from what I have seen.

Why you think he has been at the same level as Hazelwood/Starc?

He arguably bowled better in the first two games. Just hasn't been rewarded the wickets he's deserved which happens in cricket. Despite not getting the new ball, he's consistently built pressure which the other three have capitalized on. He's gotten more lift than anyone as well.

 

[kingusama92]

It is very good, but will also tend to be over rated because it corresponds to a certain kind of typological image of what a good bowling attack should look like, chiefly, they are all fastish, plus 140 types. I always encourage a reality a check when people start talking about how varied and complete an attack is. As, in 'with Wahab (pace/aggression) and Irfan (height/bounce) Pakistan have the makings of one of the world's most complete ODI bowling attacks.' What makes a good bowler good, is that not that they are tall, quick, or aggressive, but that they are plainly speaking good, as evidenced by their performance record. Case in point, Hasan Ali. Starc has a claim on being an ODI ATG, but in Tests he is merely very very good. And I don't think we can say more about the rest yet. Hazlewood is the best, averaging 25, both Starc and Cummings average 27. Rabada is a better bowler than all of them, averaging 22, and Steyn may still be on most days of the week. Lyon is indeed an improved spinner, but is he really better than Herath, Ashwin, Jadeja, Yasir, or even Maharaj? The results don't say so, by any stretch. In the subcontinent, I would still back an attack spearheaded by Ashwin and Jadeja and backed up by Bumrah and Shami. As for comparing this attack with McGrath/Warne plus one of Lee/Gillespie; Donald/Pollock/Ntini; Waqar/Wasim/Imran; or any number of great Windies attacks, no, don't see it at all.

Good point.

Although you are overrating Rabada. His AWAY record (29.58 AVG) isn't remotely close to how good he is at home (18.09 AVG).

Hazlewood has an excellent AWAY record (26.24 AVG) and has done better than Rabada in India, England, and New Zealand.

Rabada will become better over time but right now you have to go with Hazlewood.

 

[Savak]

Not really. They still didn't look deadly and scary like Johnson did in 2013/14.

 

[rudra]

Relentless attack.
Better than rabada steyn morkel phil at this time.

 

[Bilal7]

Best test attack in the world.

 

[shane]

Not too highly. I do not think they are nearly as good as the English batsmen and their home conditions have made them look. If this series was being played in England, I think it would still be 3-0...but to England.

 

[Madplayer]

Nathan lyon is under rated but he still is no warne or murli.

Forget warne, If Aussies get one spinner who is as good as a Herath/Yasir/Ashwin, they will be unstoppable.

 

[CricFan2012]

yup

 

[kingusama92]

Not too highly. I do not think they are nearly as good as the English batsmen and their home conditions have made them look. If this series was being played in England, I think it would still be 3-0...but to England.

2015 ashes had everyone except Cummins and England only won 3-2.

Starc and Hazlewood are now in their prime and Lyon is a much better bowler than he was in 2015.

 

[shane]

2015 ashes had everyone except Cummins and England only won 3-2.

Starc and Hazlewood are now in their prime and Lyon is a much better bowler than he was in 2015.

But that was a different time, when England was beating Australia in Australia. And Australia had different batsmen too - I think their current batsmen are not nearly as good as people think. It was only a year ago that these guys were humiliated at home by SA.

 

[austerlitz]

Best attack in the world.If they had a batting line up similar to it they would be like the ATG aussie team of late 90s and early 2000s.

 

[New Yorker]

Good point.

Although you are overrating Rabada. His AWAY record (29.58 AVG) isn't remotely close to how good he is at home (18.09 AVG).

Hazlewood has an excellent AWAY record (26.24 AVG) and has done better than Rabada in India, England, and New Zealand.

Rabada will become better over time but right now you have to go with Hazlewood.

Good points in turn. But I wouldn't say there is much between them even now. Rabada has 3 10fers in just 22 matches, bowling alongside Steyn and Philander, Hazles has 0 in 34.

SA attack: Rabada Ave 22, Steyn Ave 22, Philander 22, Maharaj Ave 26
Aus attack: Starc Ave 27, Hazelwood 25, Cummins Ave 27, Lyons Ave 31.

You may argue that Aus has a better attack overall, but there is nothing undeniable about it. Just Ashes fever, when people forget that there are other teams out there than England and Aus.

 

[troodon]

Nathan lyon is under rated but he still is no warne or murli.

Forget warne, If Aussies get one spinner who is as good as a Herath/Yasir/Ashwin, they will be unstoppable.

They already have Lyon. So no need of Ashwin.

I say Aus needs Yasir type of bowler to be one of the all time best attacks.

If not Yasir, someone like Kuldeep or some kind of mystery spinner will also suffice.

 

[Madplayer]

They already have Lyon. So no need of Ashwin.

I say Aus needs Yasir type of bowler to be one of the all time best attacks.

If not Yasir, someone like Kuldeep or some kind of mystery spinner will also suffice.

Lyon isnt as good as Ashwin. Any one of Ashwin, Yasir or herath would make them a complete attack.

 

[New Yorker]

Lyon isnt as good as Ashwin. Any one of Ashwin, Yasir or herath would make them a complete attack.

Like Maharaj makes the Saffies a complete, even better attack.

 

[Outswinger]

Only Hazlewood is really world-class. They are a really good collective attack in Australian conditions.
How will they perform against SA in SA?
How will they perform in the subcontinent or in England?

 

[The_Odd_One]

This might be an ATG bowling attack if they perform at this level for 2 more years.

 

[wrongun]

Why are people still listing Steyn as if he is ever going to bowl again. His shoulder is destroyed & he can't bowl effectively with it or it falls apart. Might as well add McGrath to the Oz attack in your posts. Steyn won't play more than 3 more Tests in his career at most.

 

[Outswinger]

Why are people still listing Steyn as if he is ever going to bowl again. His shoulder is destroyed & he can't bowl effectively with it or it falls apart. Might as well add McGrath to the Oz attack in your posts. Steyn won't play more than 3 more Tests in his career at most.

I also had my doubts but having seen him bowl recently there are good signs for sure. Maybe he just needed an extensive break lets see.

 

[Saj]

Starc and Hazlewood get a lot of plaudits but I'm a big fan of Cummins.

I remember the first time I watched him bowling and I thought this guy is going to be a star. Sadly injuries have hampered his career but if he can remain fit, he will show his full potential in the coming months and years.

 

[FreePalestine]

Good thread. I have been thinking about this myself lately.

Definitely the best seam bowling attack they have ever had. Dizzy, Kasprowicz, Lee were never great bowlers tbh... a bit over-rated and always in the shadow of ATG McGrath.

Overall, it is McGrath + Warne vs four quality bowlers in Haz, Starc, Cummins and Lyon. Perhaps none of the four will reach the heights of McGrath and Warne, but then again, do not have the mediocrity of Dizzy, Lee and Kasper in the mix.

 

[FreePalestine]

Evidence for the above post regarding how average Dizzy, Lee, Kasper et all were comes in the fact that two of the major losses the invincible Aussies suffered (vs England famous ashes and vs India in Oz) were when either McGrath or Warne or both were injured.

They were integral to that invincible attack and without them the Aussies were pretty much half the side they were at full strength in terms of quality.

 

[Outswinger]

McGrath, Gillespie, Hazelwood and Warne.

Dizzy>>>>>>>>Starc
Cummins unproven

 

[Ab Fan]

Starc is the weakest part of this attack which only proves how destructive this attack is if Cummins stays fit for long.

 

[Mamoon]

Good points in turn. But I wouldn't say there is much between them even now. Rabada has 3 10fers in just 22 matches, bowling alongside Steyn and Philander, Hazles has 0 in 34.

SA attack: Rabada Ave 22, Steyn Ave 22, Philander 22, Maharaj Ave 26
Aus attack: Starc Ave 27, Hazelwood 25, Cummins Ave 27, Lyons Ave 31.

You may argue that Aus has a better attack overall, but there is nothing undeniable about it. Just Ashes fever, when people forget that there are other teams out there than England and Aus.

You have to factor in how much they have left in them. Steyn is almost done, and Philander and Morkel don't have many years left either. Rabada in phenomenal though, arguably the best in the world at the moment.

In Starc, Hazlewood and Cummins, Australia have three ATG level pacers who can play together for another 5-6 years. However, Maharaj is very good and better than Lyon in my view. Overall, Australia win comfortably.

 

[Lefthanded]

All this and James Pattinson is injured or would've fought Cummins for a place in the attack.

 

[New Yorker]

You have to factor in how much they have left in them. Steyn is almost done, and Philander and Morkel don't have many years left either. Rabada in phenomenal though, arguably the best in the world at the moment.

In Starc, Hazlewood and Cummins, Australia have three ATG level pacers who can play together for another 5-6 years. However, Maharaj is very good and better than Lyon in my view. Overall, Australia win comfortably.

Yes, no doubt the Australian attack will be better than the South African attack when the South African attack retires. But for now I prefer to argue about what is actually in front of us.