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How long can Mohammad Amir rest on his talent and once in a blue moon performances?

D

deems

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Joined
May 26, 2012
Runs
298
Kick him out now.. your job is to take wickets as a bowler and if you can't do it, go back to domestic for a year or 2 and start from basics..Yes, I'm talking about Aamer..
What's with Rumman bowling 125k trundlers?
 
He is by far the best Pk have. Ali is ok but has nothing to succeed in Tests.
The rest are club bowlers.
 
You don't need anything other than "talent" in Pakistan. :amir :uakmal
 
Usman Chadda said:
Sadaf Hussain obviously. Nevermind the fact that no PSL team nor any region in the National T20 cup has considered him good enough for LOI cricket.
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Comparing Sadaf to Amir is like comparing Bhatti to Waqar
 
Can't believe people actually are defending his pathetic performance by saying replace him by who..
There's Mir Hamza and even Sohail Khan will do a better job than him.
 
If not for injuries, this guy would never make it back to Pakistan team. Still can't see why he is given special treatment.
At least tell him to focus on one format.
 
deems said:
Can't believe people actually are defending his pathetic performance by saying replace him by who..
There's Mir Hamza and even Sohail Khan will do a better job than him.
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Taking random names of bowlers who you haven't seen bowl doesn't mean you are an expert. Mir Hamza is ordinary. Sohail Khan is too old.
 
You must be related to Aamer. I apologise brov.
So you're telling me there is no other bowler in Pakistan who can go at 6 runs per over without taking wickets.
 
like i said remove Hasan Ali and our bowling is average. Amir is average, stats don't lie.
 
Not pitching it up enough. He did that in the CT final.
 
deems said:
You must be related to Aamer. I apologise brov.
So you're telling me there is no other bowler in Pakistan who can go at 6 runs per over without taking wickets.
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Come up with arguments, rather than personal attacks. The bowlers you have annoited in that post will get smashed for more than 7 runs per over on these flat decks. Not too long ago Pakistan had Anwar Ali, Ehsan Adil, Bilawal Bhatti etc as the third seamers.
 
Others being bad shouldn't change the fact that he has been pathetic since his comeback. Please get over it.
 
deems said:
Others being bad shouldn't change the fact that he has been pathetic since his comeback. Please get over it.
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So we should chop and change every match is what basically you are saying. This bowling attack won you a tournament. Have some respect.
 
deems said:
Kick him out now.. your job is to take wickets as a bowler and if you can't do it, go back to domestic for a year or 2 and start from basics..Yes, I'm talking about Aamer..
What's with Rumman bowling 125k trundlers?
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As long as people like you keep making stupid posts like these.
 
Amir bowled well, he's just not an out and out wicket taking bowler.
 
Breeze saved Amir, it would've been 63 in 10 overs with no wicket
 
He bowled better in Australia than what his figures suggest.
 
deems said:
What's the stupid bit in the post. I guess you're short of logic.
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He effectively won us the CT final. He's often among the best in terms of economy rate even if he's not always picking up wickets. I'll take that any day of any of the alternatives. Hence, stupid post.
 
IcedCoffee said:
He effectively won us the CT final. He's often among the best in terms of economy rate even if he's not always picking up wickets. I'll take that any day of any of the alternatives. Hence, stupid post.
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Fakhar Zaman and Hasan Ali did nothing I guess.
 
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deems said:
Fakhar Zaman and Hasan Ali did nothing I guess.
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No, Fakhar scored a 100 and Hasan bowled really well in the middle.

But without Kohli's wicket, we had a high potential of losing the game as evident by Kohli's history chasing and Pakistan's matches with an in form Kohli. Amir removed Kohli, Rohit and Dhawan. All three of their top and in form players.
 
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IcedCoffee said:
No, Fakhar scored a 100 and Hasan bowled really well in the middle.

But without Kohli's wicket, we had a high potential of losing the game as evident by Kohli's history chasing and Pakistan's matches with an in form Kohli. Amir removed Kohli, Rohit and Dhawan. All three of their top and in form players.
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There is no history of Kohli scoring big while chasing in a final.

Most teams will defend 338 in a final even with a mediocre bowling attack against good batting line up. Check how many times teams have managed to chase even 280+ in a final in entire ODI history.
 
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Its first game and everyone is flipped. Yes Amir needs to perform consistently but this was not the sample that you need to put up for analysis.
 
Just not the kind of wickets anymore in international cricket these days as it was in 09-10
 
He's forgotten how to take wickets. Has to watch and learn from Hasan and play with the same hunger because that was young Amir at 18.

If we can a few more young hungry lions like Hasan in the team. That will push him even more.
 
Buffet said:
350 runs allows any bowler to pitch it up and hope for the best.
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How about when he was defending 80 runs against India in Bangladesh?

The problem with Amir is that he only gives it his all in high profile games or when his place is in danger.
 
This is so frustrating.

If Amir was performing then we would have a world class pace attack with Amir and Hasan our premier strike bowlers, faheem/junaid/rumman/shinwari as our third and fourth fast bowlers.

As of now only hassan is consistently taking wickets, we wont be bowling teams out consistently like this.
 
Arsalan Pro said:
Average of 27.9 and economy of 4.85 are pretty good stats. I agree, stats don't lie.
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Let me correct you. From 2016-now Amir averages 31.12 economy 5.11- which is nothing special. When was the last time amir gave a match winning performance besides CT? I don't even remember any of his spells, but do i remember those 5 fers that Hasan Ali has gotten or that consistent 3 wickets that kept taking, best bowler of CT. As for amir he struggles even take wickets, it rarity for him to get useful wickets- usually it's some tailenders. He is the definition of an average player who once in a year will give a good performance.
 
Madplayer said:
How about when he was defending 80 runs against India in Bangladesh?

The problem with Amir is that he only gives it his all in high profile games or when his place is in danger.
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A green pitch on which almost every seamer looked good barring Wahab. Had India played Bhuvneshwar, he would have wrecked us for less than 50.

I fear the problem with Amir runs deeper than his lack of motivation and desire to step up in big games only - throughout his career, he has consistently struggled to take wickets on flat wickets. There is a reason why doesn’t have a 5-fer in ODIs and probably never will.

The Champions Trophy Final was probably one of the handful occasions where he has been able to jolt a lineup on a flat pitch.

For some reason, he just doesn’t have the bite in his bowling that his left-arm contemporaries like Starc and Boult do, as well as bowlers like Hasan, Rabada and Hazlewood etc.

We need to accept him for who he is. A good bowler who is decent and economical on flat decks and lethal in swinging/seaming conditions.
 
Pretty dramatic thread. In ust the previous ODI in the CT final, Amir bowled really well.

Just have patience... his bowling will click soon.
 
Mamoon said:
A green pitch on which almost every seamer looked good barring Wahab. Had India played Bhuvneshwar, he would have wrecked us for less than 50.

I fear the problem with Amir runs deeper than his lack of motivation and desire to step up in big games only - throughout his career, he has consistently struggled to take wickets on flat wickets. There is a reason why doesn’t have a 5-fer in ODIs and probably never will.

The Champions Trophy Final was probably one of the handful occasions where he has been able to jolt a lineup on a flat pitch.

For some reason, he just doesn’t have the bite in his bowling that his left-arm contemporaries like Starc and Boult do, as well as bowlers like Hasan, Rabada and Hazlewood etc.

We need to accept him for who he is. A good bowler who is decent and economical on flat decks and lethal in swinging/seaming conditions.
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There is always room for pedantic criticism. "Oh the pitch was green". "Oh the pitch had cracks" "oh he had 350 runs to play with". "Steyn took 300 out of 400 wickets on home made green pitches", "steve smith averages 17 more at home compared to away."
If you over analyse things, you will ALWAYS find something wrong.

Fact of the matter is that, and it is really an observable fact, Amir simply doesnt give it his all. Obviously it would look like he has lost the bite in his bowling but then he comes up with performances like CT to show us that he has still got it. He just needs a kick up his back side or a high profile occassion to give his best.

Now that he is being criticised so much, i expext Amir to turn up in the next matches. Lets just wait and see.
 
Madplayer said:
There is always room for pedantic criticism. "Oh the pitch was green". "Oh the pitch had cracks" "oh he had 350 runs to play with". "Steyn took 300 out of 400 wickets on home made green pitches", "steve smith averages 17 more at home compared to away."
If you over analyse things, you will ALWAYS find something wrong.

Fact of the matter is that, and it is really an observable fact, Amir simply doesnt give it his all. Obviously it would look like he has lost the bite in his bowling but then he comes up with performances like CT to show us that he has still got it. He just needs a kick up his back side or a high profile occassion to give his best.

Now that he is being criticised so much, i expext Amir to turn up in the next matches. Lets just wait and see.
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It is true that he often appears to be disinterested, but there is also a recurring pattern to his performances. The problem here is that his hype was so astronomical that it is difficult for people to come to terms with reality.

I am not talking about you personally, but a lot of people are simply living in denial mode now. The notion that Amir is not the bowler they thought he was or will be is a very bitter pill to swallow.

The ban obviously hasn’t helped either, since it has simply raised expectations. He was booted out right after his best series, and we never saw him inevitably struggle in the UAE later on.

Imagine Umar getting banned after his first year in international cricket. Most fans would have been adamant that Pakistan got robbed of an elite batsman.

Now obviously Amir hasn’t fallen to Umar’s level and never will, but he is not as good as his hype, and it should be clear two years into his comeback.

The notion that he lacks motivation and all that is true to an extent, but there is also a lack of ability and skill when it comes to his struggles on flat pitches. He is not at the level of some of the best fast bowlers in the world today.
 
Usman Chadda said:
Sadaf Hussain obviously. Nevermind the fact that no PSL team nor any region in the National T20 cup has considered him good enough for LOI cricket.
Click to expand...

Better read up a bit. The national selectors considered him good enough for the national team. But then Shakeel the Jackal bit.
 
Mamoon said:
It is true that he often appears to be disinterested, but there is also a recurring pattern to his performances. The problem here is that his hype was so astronomical that it is difficult for people to come to terms with reality.

I am not talking about you personally, but a lot of people are simply living in denial mode now. The notion that Amir is not the bowler they thought he was or will be is a very bitter pill to swallow.

The ban obviously hasn’t helped either, since it has simply raised expectations. He was booted out right after his best series, and we never saw him inevitably struggle in the UAE later on.

Imagine Umar getting banned after his first year in international cricket. Most fans would have been adamant that Pakistan got robbed of an elite batsman.

Now obviously Amir hasn’t fallen to Umar’s level and never will, but he is not as good as his hype, and it should be clear two years into his comeback.

The notion that he lacks motivation and all that is true to an extent, but there is also a lack of ability and skill when it comes to his struggles on flat pitches. He is not at the level of some of the best fast bowlers in the world today.
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No, infact i acknowledge that he isnt what we all thought he would be. It is true that he hasnt turned out to be the bowler he was expected to be. I even created a thread on his struggles in UAE tests where he was trundling in at 128 kph regularly.

What i am saying is that he can be much better than what he is right now if he shows more intent. Now of course, the skills arent under the scanner here. They may be limited but he isnt even utilizing them to the fullest and like you mentioned, it is observable that he looks disinterested at times. He might not become the number 1 bowler of the world like we expected, but he can atleast put in better performances than the mediocre show he has been dishing out for us. He seems to require a trigger to go all out (in his own limited capacity).
 
Bowled two maidens up front and looked pretty good. His pace was up and was swinging the ball a bit as well. Now its not his fault that Raees on the other end couldn't sustain the pressure.
 
this is a classic case of some people don't even watch the games.

he actually had 3 balls edged off him, all of which would have been taken if there was a slip. knowledge is power.
 
Amir was pretty sharp for first 3 overs.He needs to pitch the ball up.He looks like he doesn't want to pick up wickets.He looks more of a defensive bowler.
 
Even though Aamir is not bowling at its peak or full potential, he is still the best bowler in the squad as well as in Pakistan.
 
You can only blame the fielders and bad luck for so long.

His first couple of overs were good in the 1st ODI against NZ and I thought this could be his day, but then after that in every over he bowled at least one bad ball.

A bowler like him should be able to bowl with better control than he has been. His captain gave him a off side field, yet he bowled garbage on leg side. There seems to be a lack of thought most of the time.
 
champions trophy 2017

Saj said:
You can only blame the fielders and bad luck for so long.

His first couple of overs were good in the 1st ODI against NZ and I thought this could be his day, but then after that in every over he bowled at least one bad ball.

A bowler like him should be able to bowl with better control than he has been. His captain gave him a off side field, yet he bowled garbage on leg side. There seems to be a lack of thought most of the time.
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who took the first three wickets in the final
 
Aamer can definitely, I mean DEFINITELY perform in swinging pace conditions. Unfortunately, no sane opposition will curate such kind of a pitch because it will yield to them getting OUT for 150.
 
I read somewhere that Amir says himself that he lifts a gear when playing India or aus or certain players. This is the wrong mentality to have. You should be steaming in and performing against anything that’s in front of you giving 100% every single match!
 
Agree that Amir has to improve his bowling, but he has been unlucky on multiple occasions. Atleast 15 catches have been dropped off of his bowling since his comeback and he has been let down by certain individuals in the Pakistani Cricketing scheme. On Raees, It's hard to judge him off of one game plus the fact that he was bowling into speeds in excess of 100kph. He's the same bowler who troubled the English side in the CT17 semi-final and was rated highly among the new batch of youngsters by the likes of Dean Jones.
 
Hassan becoming the #1 ODI bowler in the world and winning the MOT award during the Champions Trophy should have motivated Amir, but that hasn't happened, unfortunately.
 
Jonty said:
I read somewhere that Amir says himself that he lifts a gear when playing India or aus or certain players. This is the wrong mentality to have. You should be steaming in and performing against anything that’s in front of you giving 100% every single match!
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Should drop him against all other teams :P
 
Mamoon said:
It is true that he often appears to be disinterested, but there is also a recurring pattern to his performances. The problem here is that his hype was so astronomical that it is difficult for people to come to terms with reality.

I am not talking about you personally, but a lot of people are simply living in denial mode now. The notion that Amir is not the bowler they thought he was or will be is a very bitter pill to swallow.

The ban obviously hasn’t helped either, since it has simply raised expectations. He was booted out right after his best series, and we never saw him inevitably struggle in the UAE later on.

Imagine Umar getting banned after his first year in international cricket. Most fans would have been adamant that Pakistan got robbed of an elite batsman.

Now obviously Amir hasn’t fallen to Umar’s level and never will, but he is not as good as his hype, and it should be clear two years into his comeback.

The notion that he lacks motivation and all that is true to an extent, but there is also a lack of ability and skill when it comes to his struggles on flat pitches. He is not at the level of some of the best fast bowlers in the world today.
Click to expand...

do u see him trying to be more economical rather than agressive and going for wickets.He was not making the batsman play in his first spell yesterday.shows that he is more of a conaitner.
 
Aamer needs to better his line. Looks like someone isn’t captaining well. Don’t give the batsman room and reverse every odd delivery
 
May be Half as long as the man who defined "once in a bluemoon" term in pak cricket, the Forever 17 boy who despite so much love and support from his fans throught his career never did justice to his batting talent instead became decent bowler who can hack. Guess who?
 
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Looked laboured, ineffective and lethargic yesterday.

I'm wondering what his role is in the ODI team - is he supposed to be the attacking option with the new ball? If that's the case, then where are his attacking capabilities?
 
deems said:
If not for injuries, this guy would never make it back to Pakistan team. Still can't see why he is given special treatment.
At least tell him to focus on one format.
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There was rumour some time ago that he was planning to quit tests right?

If it's so then he must go ahead, no point in playing a format you don't enjoy.
 
DRsohail said:
do u see him trying to be more economical rather than agressive and going for wickets.He was not making the batsman play in his first spell yesterday.shows that he is more of a conaitner.
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There is a big team dynamics difference, Boult can afford to go for runs while trying for wickets(and he does that every now and then), because he has others to contain like Southee does at other end, plus for NZ batting scoring 300 is expected in every game, they don’t care for defensive lengths specially at home.

On the other hand Pakistan expects consistent ECO from Amir to control the game, that is pretty clear both in test and Odi. They don’t want him to over attack that costs runs. We have made him a defensive bowler, blame goes both ways, but from what we can see strategy is clear, Amir is used to control power play not as attacking option.

Same goes for batting, it’s no surprise that only batsman survive the dressing room in last decade or so is the one who is tuk tuk version of Misbah’s style. There is a culture of defensive cricket in Pakistan ATM, security and safety first. We are taking less risk. Risk takers are punished and thrown out, too many seniors are surrvinjng despite of impotent skill set and defensive attitude, why??
 
People now defending his bowling by saying pressure is being released at the other end. In the last match the pressure was on them with Munro out early (thanks to Faheem no less) yet he still could not trouble any batsmen. Amir's bowling is toothless and it there for everyone to see except those wearing their rose tinted glasses.
 
Lynx said:
People now defending his bowling by saying pressure is being released at the other end. In the last match the pressure was on them with Munro out early (thanks to Faheem no less) yet he still could not trouble any batsmen. Amir's bowling is toothless and it there for everyone to see except those wearing their rose tinted glasses.
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Amir isn’t the biggest problem in this team, just like Babar. Don’t waste energy to fix something not broken. This guy might be stealing coins in midnight - there are few bank robbers roaming around in broad day light.
 
Amir should be benched and treated just like the others.
 
yasir said:
There is a big team dynamics difference, Boult can afford to go for runs while trying for wickets(and he does that every now and then), because he has others to contain like Southee does at other end, plus for NZ batting scoring 300 is expected in every game, they don’t care for defensive lengths specially at home.

On the other hand Pakistan expects consistent ECO from Amir to control the game, that is pretty clear both in test and Odi. They don’t want him to over attack that costs runs. We have made him a defensive bowler, blame goes both ways, but from what we can see strategy is clear, Amir is used to control power play not as attacking option.

Same goes for batting, it’s no surprise that only batsman survive the dressing room in last decade or so is the one who is tuk tuk version of Misbah’s style. There is a culture of defensive cricket in Pakistan ATM, security and safety first. We are taking less risk. Risk takers are punished and thrown out, too many seniors are surrvinjng despite of impotent skill set and defensive attitude, why??
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We have made him? I don't think so, nobody makes anyone a defensive bowler.

When Amir rooted out 3 openers fromm India, everyone credited him and his talent for that performance.

Which he truly deserved.

But when he is not performing then then blame lies with him, only a fool would want Amir to bowl defensive line when everyone knows what he is capable of, but its never seen, almost absent (2 notable performance in 2 years) is a very negligible output
 
Amir was never that great to begin with. Our immature fans get carried away by a few decent performances. So he did well against India in the CL finial. He will be living off that performance for the next two years or something. If there is someone better then please show yourself!
 
waleed88 said:
We have made him? I don't think so, nobody makes anyone a defensive bowler.

When Amir rooted out 3 openers fromm India, everyone credited him and his talent for that performance.

Which he truly deserved.

But when he is not performing then then blame lies with him, only a fool would want Amir to bowl defensive line when everyone knows what he is capable of, but its never seen, almost absent (2 notable performance in 2 years) is a very negligible output
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Pakistanis are most thankless fans, he has more than 2 performances for sure. He had the best ECO out of all bowlers in T20, in Odi better than all top bowlers, he was the most consistent bowlers from Pakistan, he bowls the fastest, swings the most, not to mention he has bowled more overs than anybody else. It’s not like we have Rabada and Strac on the bench. All others(accept Hasan) are worse than him, what they have done??

Pakistan has defensive mindset, because our batting cannot chase anything above 250. Once you start scoring 300 runs, watch what Amir and Hasan can do for you. Modern day Cricket is 50/50, batsmen has to win 50% of the game, we still win 80/90% games on bowling, that will not work specially on tour to theee conditions.
 
yasir said:
Pakistanis are most thankless fans, he has more than 2 performances for sure. He had the best ECO out of all bowlers in T20, in Odi better than all top bowlers, he was the most consistent bowlers from Pakistan, he bowls the fastest, swings the most, not to mention he has bowled more overs than anybody else. It’s not like we have Rabada and Strac on the bench. All others(accept Hasan) are worse than him, what they have done??

Pakistan has defensive mindset, because our batting cannot chase anything above 250. Once you start scoring 300 runs, watch what Amir and Hasan can do for you. Modern day Cricket is 50/50, batsmen has to win 50% of the game, we still win 80/90% games on bowling, that will not work specially on tour to theee conditions.
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Hasan Ali in 2017 - 18 matches 45 wickets average of 17.04

Junaid Khan in 2017 - 14 matches, 19 wickets average of 31.58

Mohammad Amir in 2017 - 12 matches , 18 wickets, average of 31.67

Thats some way from being our best fast bowler, or the one with the most overs bowled.

Surely Wahab Riaz never got such defence in 2015 for a whole year, or Junaid in 2012/13 when he bowled on dead Srilanka and UAE wickets

If Amir was single handedly winning us games I would understand this 'overburdened' arguement. Amir isn't even taking half the burden Hasan Ali has to win us games.
 
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