How long can Pakistan persist with these batsmen?

[RedwoodOriginal]

Yeah I figured, however I was fascinated at why he would claim that Rohail Nazir, a player that has not played a game for Pakistan yet ( I just found out) is more talented than an established, proven player like Pant.

Looking good Batting and keeping against low grade first class players is one thing however doing it against the Pros is another equation all together..

He claims Umar Akmal in 2010 = Pant now, which in itself is laughable. Even at his peak Umar Akmal could not finish the game for Pakistan in Sydney when we were chasing a measly 170 odd.

 

[Esfahani]

He claims Umar Akmal in 2010 = Pant now, which in itself is laughable. Even at his peak Umar Akmal could not finish the game for Pakistan in Sydney when we were chasing a measly 170 odd.

Akmal won many matches

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Akmal won many matches

I think you need to open a Webster's dictionary and get a good look at the definition of 'many.'

This is the second time you have used it incorrectly.

 

[Junaids]

People have been talking as if the First innings performance of the 3 Pakistan geriatric batsmen justifies their selection.

For the record, their output was:

4
51
109

To me, that is just about par: a total of 164 runs at an average of 54.67 in a home Test in Asia in the First Innings.

It's not great, but it's acceptable.

Part of the problem is the lack of accountability from the selectors. A Test batsman should score fewer than 15 less frequently than he passes 50, so it would be OK for any given batsman to have 10 innings with 3 scores under 15, 3 scores 16-49 and 4 scores 50+ for example.

But Pakistan's veteran batsmen are not hitting those levels.

Abid Ali:
4 scores 15 and under
7 scores 16-49
3 scores over 50 (but only 1 in the last 9 matches).

Azhar Ali since MisYou retired:
20 scores 15 and under
10 scores 16-49
11 scores over 50.

In other words, Azhar is dismissed for 15 or less TWICE AS OFTEN as he reaches 50.

Fawad Alam since his comeback:
4 scores 15 and under
2 scores 16-49
2 scores over 50

So the combined output of these three batsmen as veterans is:

28 scores 15 and under
19 scores 16-49
16 scores over 50.

Those are atrocious statistics for 3 of a team's 5 or 6 Top Order batsmen.

In effect, when Pakistan select Abid, Azhar and Fawad in the same batting order they have already conceded that they will not score enough runs, and that top order wickets will tumble.

 

[Ahson8]

People have been talking as if the First innings performance of the 3 Pakistan geriatric batsmen justifies their selection.

For the record, their output was:

4
51
109

To me, that is just about par: a total of 164 runs at an average of 54.67 in a home Test in Asia in the First Innings.

It's not great, but it's acceptable.

Part of the problem is the lack of accountability from the selectors. A Test batsman should score fewer than 15 less frequently than he passes 50, so it would be OK for any given batsman to have 10 innings with 3 scores under 15, 3 scores 16-49 and 4 scores 50+ for example.

But Pakistan's veteran batsmen are not hitting those levels.

Abid Ali:
4 scores 15 and under
7 scores 16-49
3 scores over 50 (but only 1 in the last 9 matches).

Azhar Ali since MisYou retired:
20 scores 15 and under
10 scores 16-49
11 scores over 50.

In other words, Azhar is dismissed for 15 or less TWICE AS OFTEN as he reaches 50.

Fawad Alam since his comeback:
4 scores 15 and under
2 scores 16-49
2 scores over 50

So the combined output of these three batsmen as veterans is:

28 scores 15 and under
19 scores 16-49
16 scores over 50.

Those are atrocious statistics for 3 of a team's 5 or 6 Top Order batsmen.

In effect, when Pakistan select Abid, Azhar and Fawad in the same batting order they have already conceded that they will not score enough runs, and that top order wickets will tumble.

Fawad has earned his spot for now. We don't have any ready openers, so Azhar can open. There should be question marks on Abid Ali.

 

[Junaids]

Fawad has earned his spot for now. We don't have any ready openers, so Azhar can open. There should be question marks on Abid Ali.

I half-agree, but I would say this instead.

Saud Shakeel has earned his place in the team, and is at his peak. He is being kept out of the team by the "seniority" of Abid Ali - who wasn't even in the team a year ago - and Azhar Ali, who scores less than 15 twice as often as he reaches 50.

This is not acceptable.

The seniority culture of Asian society seems to have created a monster with the following characteristics in terms of Pakistan selection.

1. You don't get picked when you are at your peak (Saud Shakeel, Fawad Alam, Abid Ali) because other more senior people are in the team.

(But Fawad Alam was kept out by Asad Shafiq, whose Test average was under 40 for 57 of his 77 Tests! And Abid Ali was kept out by Shan Masood and Mohammad Hafeez!)

2. You are much more likely to get picked late in your career, by which time you are likely to:

a) Be an Asian Track Bully (Misbah),
b) Lose your consistency, and maintain your average by having 1 huge innings per series and several times more failures which drop your team into deep trouble (Younis Khan).

Misbah was recalled in 2011, aged 37. He played 4 series in SENA between the ages of 38 and 43, with the following output:

In South Africa 2012-13
5 innings under 50
1 half-century
Average 22.50

In England 2016:
4 innings under 50
3 innings over 50
Average 40.28

In New Zealand 2016-17
2 innings, both under 50
Average 22.00

In Australia 2016-17
6 innings, all under 50
Average 12.66

This culture of non-performing seniors keeping better batsmen out of the team even when they are in their peak years is insane.

And Misbah is the poster boy for this culture of retaining non-performing seniors - his series averages in those 4 SENA series were:

22.50
40.28
22.00
12.66

By the end even Mohammad Amir was averaging more as a Test batsman across an entire series in Australia than Misbah was. Yet Misbah carried on and on.

 

[Shoaibbtt]

People have been talking as if the First innings performance of the 3 Pakistan geriatric batsmen justifies their selection.

For the record, their output was:

4
51
109

To me, that is just about par: a total of 164 runs at an average of 54.67 in a home Test in Asia in the First Innings.

It's not great, but it's acceptable.

Part of the problem is the lack of accountability from the selectors. A Test batsman should score fewer than 15 less frequently than he passes 50, so it would be OK for any given batsman to have 10 innings with 3 scores under 15, 3 scores 16-49 and 4 scores 50+ for example.

But Pakistan's veteran batsmen are not hitting those levels.

Abid Ali:
4 scores 15 and under
7 scores 16-49
3 scores over 50 (but only 1 in the last 9 matches).

Azhar Ali since MisYou retired:
20 scores 15 and under
10 scores 16-49
11 scores over 50.

In other words, Azhar is dismissed for 15 or less TWICE AS OFTEN as he reaches 50.

Fawad Alam since his comeback:
4 scores 15 and under
2 scores 16-49
2 scores over 50

So the combined output of these three batsmen as veterans is:

28 scores 15 and under
19 scores 16-49
16 scores over 50.

Those are atrocious statistics for 3 of a team's 5 or 6 Top Order batsmen.

In effect, when Pakistan select Abid, Azhar and Fawad in the same batting order they have already conceded that they will not score enough runs, and that top order wickets will tumble.

Wow you've really took the time to produce these stats.

The one thing we have to take into account and a good point that Younis Khan made is that it's difficult for coaching staff to work with constant new comers, as it stands:

Fawad Alam- dropping Fawad is silly and he's had 3 starts and gone on to make it count i.e. 100% conversion rate from 50 to 100. The other thing about Fawad is that he's probably the only one in that line-up that has a 100 against SA and nobody in that current line up does (doesn't matter whether that's home or away conditions it's a big deal). He's improving in my books and is proving his worth as a reliable no. 5. My only suggestion to Fawad is to play English County Cricket once the Covid situation improves in England/UK.

Abid Ali- I can agree with his dropping and his current form suggests he's a home conditions player only and can't produce the goods away. However, this keep happening our openers are constantly failing and we keep changing them, but i think with M. Wasim as selector now he'll most likely drop him if he doesn't perform in this series.

Azhar Ali- He's had a decent last series against NZ with an average of 45 and he's done ok here as well. You've unfortunately got to bank on him now as he's your most experienced player.

In conclusion- with the context of where the game is Pakistan have done the best to make the most of a bad start, I mean look we were looking at the jaws of defeat until the likes of Azhar, Fawad, Faheem, Rizwan and the tail contributed runs. I mean i think half you guys here it's just about chopping and changing constantly, which is what it shouldn't be about.

I mean you are quick to point out flaws but not actually come up with reasonable alternates.

 

[Shoaibbtt]

Fawad has earned his spot for now. We don't have any ready openers, so Azhar can open. There should be question marks on Abid Ali.

I'd rather not open with Azhar, as he's a no.3 and so if he's settled at that position then i wouldn't mess it up i.e. if it ain't broke don't fix it.

Fawad remains at no.5 and i feel this is his optimum batting position.

Abid Ali it's going to be a disappointing drop if he does nothing of significance in this next innings and indeed gives Pakistan more headaches if we have openers that can't do anything. What other openers do we have? I mean you have to then trial Imran Butt and Abdullah Shafique.

 

[Ahson8]

I'd rather not open with Azhar, as he's a no.3 and so if he's settled at that position then i wouldn't mess it up i.e. if it ain't broke don't fix it.

Fawad remains at no.5 and i feel this is his optimum batting position.

Abid Ali it's going to be a disappointing drop if he does nothing of significance in this next innings and indeed gives Pakistan more headaches if we have openers that can't do anything. What other openers do we have? I mean you have to then trial Imran Butt and Abdullah Shafique.

Trust me, we cant afford to waste Saud and for that to happen Azhar needs to open.

 

[Ahson8]

I half-agree, but I would say this instead.

Saud Shakeel has earned his place in the team, and is at his peak. He is being kept out of the team by the "seniority" of Abid Ali - who wasn't even in the team a year ago - and Azhar Ali, who scores less than 15 twice as often as he reaches 50.

This is not acceptable.

The seniority culture of Asian society seems to have created a monster with the following characteristics in terms of Pakistan selection.

1. You don't get picked when you are at your peak (Saud Shakeel, Fawad Alam, Abid Ali) because other more senior people are in the team.

(But Fawad Alam was kept out by Asad Shafiq, whose Test average was under 40 for 57 of his 77 Tests! And Abid Ali was kept out by Shan Masood and Mohammad Hafeez!)

2. You are much more likely to get picked late in your career, by which time you are likely to:

a) Be an Asian Track Bully (Misbah),
b) Lose your consistency, and maintain your average by having 1 huge innings per series and several times more failures which drop your team into deep trouble (Younis Khan).

Misbah was recalled in 2011, aged 37. He played 4 series in SENA between the ages of 38 and 43, with the following output:

In South Africa 2012-13
5 innings under 50
1 half-century
Average 22.50

In England 2016:
4 innings under 50
3 innings over 50
Average 40.28

In New Zealand 2016-17
2 innings, both under 50
Average 22.00

In Australia 2016-17
6 innings, all under 50
Average 12.66

This culture of non-performing seniors keeping better batsmen out of the team even when they are in their peak years is insane.

And Misbah is the poster boy for this culture of retaining non-performing seniors - his series averages in those 4 SENA series were:

22.50
40.28
22.00
12.66

By the end even Mohammad Amir was averaging more as a Test batsman across an entire series in Australia than Misbah was. Yet Misbah carried on and on.

I agree about Saud, personally I would have opened with Azhar and given Saud a debut instead of Butt in this test.

 

[Shoaibbtt]

Trust me, we cant afford to waste Saud and for that to happen Azhar needs to open.

I agree we should opt with Saud, I mean the pacers were never going to be in this game and i can perhaps say we could've rested Faheem for a specialist batsman in Saud. However, it's an injustice to not trial Imran either who looked somewhat decent in the tour game against NZ-A.

I'd say you'll have to maybe keep trialing Imran or see how he does in this next innings, to be fair he got a bit of a nasty delivery so not gonna fully knock the lad. He still deserves a chance in my books.

There will be lots of talks about what we do until the next test match and indeed the upcoming Zimbabwae series in April. However, at this point in order to introduce Saud i would open with Azhar.

 

[BreadPakoda]

People have been talking as if the First innings performance of the 3 Pakistan geriatric batsmen justifies their selection.

For the record, their output was:

4
51
109

To me, that is just about par: a total of 164 runs at an average of 54.67 in a home Test in Asia in the First Innings.

It's not great, but it's acceptable.

1 data point. Nice. Lets play this game.

What are the stats for the non-geriatric batsmen in the first innings?

Let me help you.

Imran Butt 9
Babar Azam 7
Mohammad Rizwan 33

Average of 16.33.

If 54.67 is not great, but it's acceptable, what do you have to say about 16.3?

 

[Ahson8]

I agree we should opt with Saud, I mean the pacers were never going to be in this game and i can perhaps say we could've rested Faheem for a specialist batsman in Saud. However, it's an injustice to not trial Imran either who looked somewhat decent in the tour game against NZ-A.

I'd say you'll have to maybe keep trialing Imran or see how he does in this next innings, to be fair he got a bit of a nasty delivery so not gonna fully knock the lad. He still deserves a chance in my books.

There will be lots of talks about what we do until the next test match and indeed the upcoming Zimbabwae series in April. However, at this point in order to introduce Saud i would open with Azhar.

Should give Imran a proper chance now that he has got a debut, but they should be considering Saud for Abid, especially if he fails in the 2nd innings

 

[Junaids]

The cupboard is hardly full of Inzamams, Yousufs and Younis Khans.

Although selection policies of picking players at the wrong time is annissue.

The thing is, Saud Shakeel is (officially) 25 years and 4 months old, and is in the form of his life. And he can't get into the team.

Whereas NEITHER Abid Ali (33) or Fawad Alam (35) was in the team a year ago, and yet now they are somehow blocking Saud Shakeel's way, even though Abid Ali averages 20 except against Sri Lanka, and Fawad Alam averages 35 since his comeback, which is less than Asad Shafiq whom he replaced!

If you are at your peak and at an age at which you can provide 8-10 years of service, you get left out.

Whereas if you are past your peak and in decline you get into the team, and you become almost undroppable!

 

[Junaids]

1 data point. Nice. Lets play this game.

What are the stats for the non-geriatric batsmen in the first innings?

Let me help you.

Imran Butt 9
Babar Azam 7
Mohammad Rizwan 33

Average of 16.33.

If 54.67 is not great, but it's acceptable, what do you have to say about 16.3?

I would not have Imran Butt within a million miles of the Test team. He had one inflated home season against reserve bowlers with a Kookaburra ball.

I ask myself the following questions when trying to select a team:

1. Who are the best three batsmen now? (Regardless of other roles like bowling or keeping wicket)
2. Which batsmen are at a relatively high level, and yet are young enough both to develop further and to provide 8-10 years of service?

In terms of the best three batsmen now, I would say the answer is

1. Babar Azam
2. Mohammad Rizwan (scores since his comeback are: 33, 10, 61, 60, 71, 53, 72, 27, 9, 10, 21*, 4, 45, 0, 95, 37 at an average of 40.53)
3. Take your pick between Azhar Ali and Fawad Alam.

So my three senior batsmen are going to be Babar Azam, Mohammad Rizwan and one of either Azhar Ali or Fawad Alam. But not both.

I then need to identify 3 batsmen who can provide 8-10 years of service and who are young enough to keep improving. I'm going to pick Saud Shakeel - so he is straight into my starting eleven.

I'm relying upon Mohammad Rizwan as a specialist batsman because he is the second best batsman in Pakistan. That means that I'm going to use Azhar Ali as an opener, and I still need a second opener and I need a wicketkeeper who is batting well and who can bat at 6. Rohail Nazir fitted that bill in New Zealand, where he was the best batsman on display.

So I am thinking:

1. Azhar Ali (one of 3 senior batsmen)
2. Sami Aslam (sending out an SOS to the USA - even when Imran Butt scored his mountain of runs 15 months ago Sami Aslam was considerably better than he was).
3. Mohammad Rizwan (second senior batsman)
4. Babar Azam (third senior batsman)
5. Saud Shakeel
6. Rohail Nazir (wk)

I think that team is pretty much superior to the current one anyway. In terms of Top Six batting, Mohammad Rizwan is an upgrade on Fawad Alam, Sami Aslam is an upgrade on Imran Butt and Saud Shakeel in my opinion is an upgrade on Abid Ali.

So I have not weakened my team - but I have reduced to 1 geriatric - Azhar Ali - who needs replacing soon, whereas the current team has 3 geriatrics needing replacement.

 

[Thunderbolt14]

I would not have Imran Butt within a million miles of the Test team. He had one inflated home season against reserve bowlers with a Kookaburra ball.

I ask myself the following questions when trying to select a team:

1. Who are the best three batsmen now? (Regardless of other roles like bowling or keeping wicket)
2. Which batsmen are at a relatively high level, and yet are young enough both to develop further and to provide 8-10 years of service?

In terms of the best three batsmen now, I would say the answer is

1. Babar Azam
2. Mohammad Rizwan (scores since his comeback are: 33, 10, 61, 60, 71, 53, 72, 27, 9, 10, 21*, 4, 45, 0, 95, 37 at an average of 40.53)
3. Take your pick between Azhar Ali and Fawad Alam.

So my three senior batsmen are going to be Babar Azam, Mohammad Rizwan and one of either Azhar Ali or Fawad Alam. But not both.

I then need to identify 3 batsmen who can provide 8-10 years of service and who are young enough to keep improving. I'm going to pick Saud Shakeel - so he is straight into my starting eleven.

I'm relying upon Mohammad Rizwan as a specialist batsman because he is the second best batsman in Pakistan. That means that I'm going to use Azhar Ali as an opener, and I still need a second opener and I need a wicketkeeper who is batting well and who can bat at 6. Rohail Nazir fitted that bill in New Zealand, where he was the best batsman on display.

So I am thinking:

1. Azhar Ali (one of 3 senior batsmen)
2. Sami Aslam (sending out an SOS to the USA - even when Imran Butt scored his mountain of runs 15 months ago Sami Aslam was considerably better than he was).
3. Mohammad Rizwan (second senior batsman)
4. Babar Azam (third senior batsman)
5. Saud Shakeel
6. Rohail Nazir (wk)

I think that team is pretty much superior to the current one anyway. In terms of Top Six batting, Mohammad Rizwan is an upgrade on Fawad Alam, Sami Aslam is an upgrade on Imran Butt and Saud Shakeel in my opinion is an upgrade on Abid Ali.

So I have not weakened my team - but I have reduced to 1 geriatric - Azhar Ali - who needs replacing soon, whereas the current team has 3 geriatrics needing replacement.

Your premise is fundamentally wrong. Here are the real rankings for our top Test batsmen right now:
1. Azhar Ali
2. Fawad Alam
3. Babar Azam
4. Mohammad Rizwan
5. Faheem Ashraf
—————
6. Everyone else

Babar just isn’t good enough to anchor the entire lineup yet. Following your model of taking the top 3 and building the model around everyone else:

1. Azhar Ali
2.
3.
4. Babar Azam
5. Fawad Alam
6. Mohammad Rizwan (wk)

Rizwan makes the team as keeper and I suspect you haven’t been watching the latest match or you would never in your wildest dreams replace him with anyone other than Adam Gilchrist as keeper. You take Rizwan out of the keeping position and South Africa would currently be sitting on a 300 runs lead with 8 wickets in hand. We do not need him more as a batsman than as a keeper. And he’s doing perfectly fine scoring 50’s for fun at number 6. If you’re that insistent, you can have him keep at 5.

The both of us agree about Saud. Here’s what our lineup now looks like:

1. Azhar Ali
2.
3. Saud Shakeel
4. Babar Azam
5. Fawad Alam
6. Mohammad Rizwan (wk)
7. Faheem Ashraf

You now need to select one opener. Let’s say we put out a distress call to Sami, and he declines - he’s more than happy collecting $100,000 a year without playing a single game, and is about to start a family in pursuit of the American dream.

You are now left to search elsewhere. Your options are:
Imran Butt
Abdullah Shafique
Haider Ali
Omair bin Yousuf
Abid Ali

Take your pick. They’re all equally average at this point in time, though some have a slightly higher ceiling than the rest. Whoever you pick, other than Abid Ali, it will be a 20-25 year old. I will pick Imran Butt, though it’s not an easy decision to drop Abid. Despite the hate he gets, the other options listed above will average 20 in Test cricket and should be allowed to develop for another 2 years in first class. Imran is not entirely horrible himself as his 36 average might have been mediocre but it was as an opener against the Duke’s ball when very few other openers did well at all, and then cashed in against the Kookaburra. All of this when he was in his early 20s, and will no doubt have matured his game now.

Anyways, whoever you pick, now your batting lineup has 5 people out of the top 7 bats aged in their 20s, with Azhar and Fawad as the only older batsmen in the team.

1. Azhar Ali
2. Imran Butt
3. Saud Shakeel
4. Babar Azam (c)
5. Fawad Alam
6. Mohammad Rizwan (wk)
7. Faheem Ashraf

Following your own model, that is your batting lineup across all conditions (even Asia considering we have no fast bowlers better than Faheem for the third pacer’s spot).

 

[BreadPakoda]

Your premise is fundamentally wrong. Here are the real rankings for our top Test batsmen right now:
1. Azhar Ali
2. Fawad Alam
3. Babar Azam
4. Mohammad Rizwan
5. Faheem Ashraf
—————
6. Everyone else

Babar just isn’t good enough to anchor the entire lineup yet. Following your model of taking the top 3 and building the model around everyone else:

1. Azhar Ali
2.
3.
4. Babar Azam
5. Fawad Alam
6. Mohammad Rizwan (wk)

Rizwan makes the team as keeper and I suspect you haven’t been watching the latest match or you would never in your wildest dreams replace him with anyone other than Adam Gilchrist as keeper. You take Rizwan out of the keeping position and South Africa would currently be sitting on a 300 runs lead with 8 wickets in hand. We do not need him more as a batsman than as a keeper. And he’s doing perfectly fine scoring 50’s for fun at number 6. If you’re that insistent, you can have him keep at 5.

The both of us agree about Saud. Here’s what our lineup now looks like:

1. Azhar Ali
2.
3. Saud Shakeel
4. Babar Azam
5. Fawad Alam
6. Mohammad Rizwan (wk)
7. Faheem Ashraf

You now need to select one opener. Let’s say we put out a distress call to Sami, and he declines - he’s more than happy collecting $100,000 a year without playing a single game, and is about to start a family in pursuit of the American dream.

You are now left to search elsewhere. Your options are:
Imran Butt
Abdullah Shafique
Haider Ali
Omair bin Yousuf
Abid Ali

Take your pick. They’re all equally average at this point in time, though some have a slightly higher ceiling than the rest. Whoever you pick, other than Abid Ali, it will be a 20-25 year old. I will pick Imran Butt, though it’s not an easy decision to drop Abid. Despite the hate he gets, the other options listed above will average 20 in Test cricket and should be allowed to develop for another 2 years in first class. Imran is not entirely horrible himself as his 36 average might have been mediocre but it was as an opener against the Duke’s ball when very few other openers did well at all, and then cashed in against the Kookaburra. All of this when he was in his early 20s, and will no doubt have matured his game now.

Anyways, whoever you pick, now your batting lineup has 5 people out of the top 7 bats aged in their 20s, with Azhar and Fawad as the only older batsmen in the team.

1. Azhar Ali
2. Imran Butt
3. Saud Shakeel
4. Babar Azam (c)
5. Fawad Alam
6. Mohammad Rizwan (wk)
7. Faheem Ashraf

Following your own model, that is your batting lineup across all conditions (even Asia considering we have no fast bowlers better than Faheem for the third pacer’s spot).

Very good post. Especially the part about Riz's keeping.

 

[Junaids]

Your premise is fundamentally wrong. Here are the real rankings for our top Test batsmen right now:
1. Azhar Ali
2. Fawad Alam
3. Babar Azam
4. Mohammad Rizwan
5. Faheem Ashraf
—————
6. Everyone else

Babar just isn’t good enough to anchor the entire lineup yet. Following your model of taking the top 3 and building the model around everyone else:

1. Azhar Ali
2.
3.
4. Babar Azam
5. Fawad Alam
6. Mohammad Rizwan (wk)

Rizwan makes the team as keeper and I suspect you haven’t been watching the latest match or you would never in your wildest dreams replace him with anyone other than Adam Gilchrist as keeper. You take Rizwan out of the keeping position and South Africa would currently be sitting on a 300 runs lead with 8 wickets in hand. We do not need him more as a batsman than as a keeper. And he’s doing perfectly fine scoring 50’s for fun at number 6. If you’re that insistent, you can have him keep at 5.

The both of us agree about Saud. Here’s what our lineup now looks like:

1. Azhar Ali
2.
3. Saud Shakeel
4. Babar Azam
5. Fawad Alam
6. Mohammad Rizwan (wk)
7. Faheem Ashraf

You now need to select one opener. Let’s say we put out a distress call to Sami, and he declines - he’s more than happy collecting $100,000 a year without playing a single game, and is about to start a family in pursuit of the American dream.

You are now left to search elsewhere. Your options are:
Imran Butt
Abdullah Shafique
Haider Ali
Omair bin Yousuf
Abid Ali

Take your pick. They’re all equally average at this point in time, though some have a slightly higher ceiling than the rest. Whoever you pick, other than Abid Ali, it will be a 20-25 year old. I will pick Imran Butt, though it’s not an easy decision to drop Abid. Despite the hate he gets, the other options listed above will average 20 in Test cricket and should be allowed to develop for another 2 years in first class. Imran is not entirely horrible himself as his 36 average might have been mediocre but it was as an opener against the Duke’s ball when very few other openers did well at all, and then cashed in against the Kookaburra. All of this when he was in his early 20s, and will no doubt have matured his game now.

Anyways, whoever you pick, now your batting lineup has 5 people out of the top 7 bats aged in their 20s, with Azhar and Fawad as the only older batsmen in the team.

1. Azhar Ali
2. Imran Butt
3. Saud Shakeel
4. Babar Azam (c)
5. Fawad Alam
6. Mohammad Rizwan (wk)
7. Faheem Ashraf

Following your own model, that is your batting lineup across all conditions (even Asia considering we have no fast bowlers better than Faheem for the third pacer’s spot).

There are large sections of this that I agree with.

But since Misbah and Younis retired in 2017:

1. Azhar Ali averages 31, and 19 away.

2. Fawad Alam averages 35, and 25 away.

3. Babar Azam averages 59.87, and 48 away.

4. Mohammad Rizwan averages 41, and 43 away.

I just don’t see how you can call Azhar and Fawad the two leading batsmen. To me it is obvious that the team relies on the runs of Babar Azam and Mohammad Rizwan.

I happen to think that Kumar Sangakkara was an even greater wicketkeeper-batsman than Adam Gilchrist. But he never gets the recognition he deserves because Sri Lanka needed the extra runs he could provide as a specialist batsman.

I agree that Rizwan is the world’s best keeper-batsman. But I think that Rohail or Sarfraz can do that job, and that Pakistan needs the extra runs that he could add as a specialist batsman.

 

[Thunderbolt14]

There are large sections of this that I agree with.

But since Misbah and Younis retired in 2017:

1. Azhar Ali averages 31, and 19 away.

2. Fawad Alam averages 35, and 25 away.

3. Babar Azam averages 59.87, and 48 away.

4. Mohammad Rizwan averages 41, and 43 away.

I just don’t see how you can call Azhar and Fawad the two leading batsmen. To me it is obvious that the team relies on the runs of Babar Azam and Mohammad Rizwan.

I happen to think that Kumar Sangakkara was an even greater wicketkeeper-batsman than Adam Gilchrist. But he never gets the recognition he deserves because Sri Lanka needed the extra runs he could provide as a specialist batsman.

I agree that Rizwan is the world’s best keeper-batsman. But I think that Rohail or Sarfraz can do that job, and that Pakistan needs the extra runs that he could add as a specialist batsman.

You are cherry picking stats. The body of work does not matter. What matters is current ability and ability relative to other batsmen available.

On current ability, ever since he fixed the technical issue of his head falling over, Azhar Ali has scores of:

141*
31
5
38
93
37
51

That’s an average of 66. And only one of these innings was at home, while the other 6 innings were against Anderson, Broad, Archer, Boult, Southee, and Kyle Jamieson in their backyards.

Fawad Alam, since his comeback:
0
21
9
102
2
16
109

Note that in all of these situations he came in after the top 3-4 had collapsed.

You and I both know he was sold down a river and given a comeback in a Test where the ball was hooping circles around the batsmen and the bowlers were two of the best in the world (and one of them, Anderson, is a certified ATG especially at home). That’s an average of 37, but if we ignore the very first 0, which is the Test where he would have had the most nerves and was least likely to acclimatize quickly, that average increases to 43 in his last 6 innings.

Next, his trajectory is improving. If we attribute his first few innings to nerves, his first knock that gave him confidence (for most batsmen, this is a 50), he immediately converted to a 100 in a fighting cause and hasn’t looked back since.

After the knock of 102, that average increases even further to 57.25. On current form and ability, he is our second best bat after Azhar Ali.

Babar is not our first or second best bat - he simply has never rescued a Test or even built a Test. Even our recent victories against Sri Lanka and Bangladesh were built off the back of Abid Ali, for the most part.

He disappeared when we needed him in England, and lost concentration when we needed him against South Africa. The only reason he’s ranked even third is because of pure natural ability and the fact that he averages an absurdly large amount in soft runs. He will no doubt be our number one Test bat two years from now, but as of now he has much to prove. I am fully confident that he will indeed prove it... at some point.

Lastly regarding Rizwan - are you comparing his batting ability to Sangakkara? If so, you win this argument as I am incredibly embarrassed that I was asking for an ATG bat to keep for the Pakistan team.

Sangakkara is the exception, not the rule. If Rizwan develops his batting ability to the point of Sangakkara’s skill, which is an absurd proposition, I will have no qualms having Rizwan bat at number 3. Until then, Rizwan can keep for us like other common mortals such as Adam Gilchrist and Andy Flower.

Actually... no. Not even then. Rizwan batting at 6 and averaging 30 while taking spectacular catches is more important to the team than him batting at 3 and averaging 50, but teams regularly building massive leads in the absence of bowlers who can create more than one opportunity per batsman.

 

[Shoaibbtt]

Should give Imran a proper chance now that he has got a debut, but they should be considering Saud for Abid, especially if he fails in the 2nd innings

inshAllah they'll get their chance in Zimbabwae but on another note Nuaman Ali take a bow! I knew he was gonna be tough on a day 4 pitch he's shown it time and time again for Northern