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How long will Mohammad Amir play based on his former glory?

JibranAnsari

ODI Captain
Joined
Oct 13, 2010
Runs
46,975
Does not even look like taking a wicket now , 11th match after his return and has 30 wickets @ 40.33. He loses his swing after 3 overs and can only be used as an economical bowler after that on his good day.

I think Aamir has been given a long run of 11 matches and he has failed to show that he belongs at that level anymore . Pakistan needs to give other bowlers at least half as chances as aamir has got before axing them for good.
 
Why is everything in "absolute" for most fans? Aamir is underperforming "relative" to whom? Rahat? Wahab? Or, Imran?
 
Amir needs to go back to some old videos and replicate his action. Moreover some time away won't be a bad idea as he seems to be fatigued playing lot of games in the last 1 year without much luck
 
No denying he has been fairly disappointing. But the thing is, he's not even the weakest link in the bowling.

So you get rid of him and who takes his place??
 
Should be an ODI specialist me thinks.

Not cut out for test cricket.
 
We've reached a point where Wahab is no longer worthy of being an automatic selection, and I fear the same can now be said for Amir as well (or at least it's getting there).

Then you have Sohail who can only survive in a 5-man attack, Rahat who is heavily inconsistent and brainless, and then Imran who, one can say has finally been exposed (though he should probably get a few more games before we write him off completely as he's managed to put up better numbers than the rest).

Sad, really.

Hamza, Asif, Sadaf, Ehsan, Hasan, Abbas, Junaid should all make the most of this, put in the hard yards, and hopefully at least 2-3 of them can make it to the side soon and show what they're composed of.
 
I haven't watched this series, maybe a part of a session in 2nd Test, but let't assume he is not good enough, so do we have better bowlers ready to take his spot?
 
Why is everything in "absolute" for most fans? Aamir is underperforming "relative" to whom? Rahat? Wahab? Or, Imran?

All of them took wickets last match and this except Imran. Imran's first game
 
the fact of the matter is amir has no idea how to take wickets.
 
He needs to go now. I like to give players time but Amir has been hugely dissapointing in England, UAE, Nx and now Australia.
 
Got rushed back into the Test team, but he's still the best pacer in the squad.

I get the impression these calls for him to be dropped are more from disappointment of him not living up to the hype.

He still deserves to be in the side ahead of every other pacer you have.
 
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Got rushed back into the Test team, but he's still the best pacer in the squad.

I get the impression these calls for him to be dropped are more from disappointment of him not living up to the hype.

He still deserves to be in the side ahead of every other pacer you have.

he is averaging 40 since return he is finished 5 years out of the game has killed him time to invest in new blood he jsut does not bowl with the same venom..
 
he is averaging 40 since return he is finished 5 years out of the game has killed him time to invest in new blood he jsut does not bowl with the same venom..
He definitely isn't finished, he has easily looked your best bowler.
 
We need new bowling attack for test cricket. After this series they should sack all the bowlers including wahab. We need wicket taking bowlers what's waqar,wasim;aqiab and goes for inzi too.
Can't find new pace attack?????

TIME FOR INZI TO MAKE BOLD DECISIONS??
 
Unfortunately he's the best of the current lot.Rahat,Imran,Sohail,Wahab need to be dropped with Sohail kept on as an ODI specialist.
 
A bit harsh criticism but also shouldn't be an automatic selection that I agree.
 
Not a fan because of the fixing scandal but going on performance alone, he is the only one that looks like taking any wickets. The rest are awful.
 
He's too short to succeed outside Asia.

He could be a useful third seamer who can bat though.

Mickey Arthur needs to be transparent and firm. All fast bowlers need to be a minimum of 6'2 to be considered and must be able to bowl 140+ all day.

No exceptions apart from a fourth seamer who can deliver a guaranteed average of 25 with the bat.

NO exceptions.
 
The rest aren't any better either.

Truth be told, Pakistan has long lost its fast bowling legacy and is a team more in the India mould - batting being the stronger suit and spinners being the main strike bowlers. [MENTION=131603]pacesensation[/MENTION] bhai disagreed with me a few days ago when I said the same, wonder if he'll agree with me now..
 
Amir needs to step up big time.
Ind-Pak bowler since Jan2011 (min 20Wickets)

[table=width: 700, class: grid, align: center]
[tr][td]Player [/td][td]Span [/td][td]Mat [/td][td]Wkts [/td][td]Ave [/td][td]Econ [/td][td]SR [/td][td]5W [/td][td]10W [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]P Kumar (INDIA) [/td][td]2011-2011 [/td][td]6 [/td][td]27 [/td][td]25.81 [/td][td]2.59 [/td][td]59.6 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]B Kumar (INDIA) [/td][td]2013-2016 [/td][td]16 [/td][td]42 [/td][td]28.8 [/td][td]2.99 [/td][td]57.7 [/td][td]4 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Imran Khan (PAK) [/td][td]2014-2017 [/td][td]9 [/td][td]26 [/td][td]29.65 [/td][td]3.31 [/td][td]53.6 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Umar Gul (PAK) [/td][td]2011-2013 [/td][td]15 [/td][td]51 [/td][td]30.82 [/td][td]3.24 [/td][td]57 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Junaid Khan (PAK) [/td][td]2011-2015 [/td][td]22 [/td][td]71 [/td][td]31.73 [/td][td]2.93 [/td][td]64.8 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Aizaz Cheema (PAK) [/td][td]2011-2012 [/td][td]7 [/td][td]20 [/td][td]31.9 [/td][td]3.19 [/td][td]60 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Mohammed Shami (INDIA) [/td][td]2013-2016 [/td][td]22 [/td][td]76 [/td][td]32.6 [/td][td]3.45 [/td][td]56.6 [/td][td]2 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Wahab Riaz (PAK) [/td][td]2011-2017 [/td][td]21 [/td][td]65 [/td][td]35 [/td][td]3.45 [/td][td]60.7 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Sohail Khan (PAK) [/td][td]2011-2016 [/td][td]8 [/td][td]27 [/td][td]35.59 [/td][td]3.46 [/td][td]61.7 [/td][td]2 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]I Sharma (INDIA) [/td][td]2011-2016 [/td][td]43 [/td][td]125 [/td][td]37.07 [/td][td]3.18 [/td][td]69.8 [/td][td]6 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Rahat Ali (PAK) [/td][td]2013-2016 [/td][td]20 [/td][td]58 [/td][td]37.43 [/td][td]3.21 [/td][td]69.7 [/td][td]2 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]UT Yadav (INDIA) [/td][td]2011-2016 [/td][td]26 [/td][td]68 [/td][td]38.94 [/td][td]3.73 [/td][td]62.6 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Z Khan (INDIA) [/td][td]2011-2014 [/td][td]15 [/td][td]44 [/td][td]39.59 [/td][td]3.14 [/td][td]75.6 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Mohammad Amir (PAK) [/td][td]2016-2017 [/td][td]11 [/td][td]30 [/td][td]40.76 [/td][td]3.08 [/td][td]79.2 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[/table]
 
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He can continue untill his fan boys stop giving excuses like dropped catches,missed edges,poor misbah captaincy,not having asif as partner.
 
Should definitely play against West Indies. If he doesn't perform there also then he should be dropped from the test team.

You will never find out who is better than amir until you give a chance to a new bowler. Guys like Hasan Ali should get a chance.
 
Well he has been disappointing but lets cut him slack. His bowling partners aren't helping him much

I don't think his bowling has deteriorated or has changed, we fans expected too much from him. He was a great bowler but he we hyped him up the extreme. Also, he had a better mentor/partner in Asif. Asif with all his wizardry would build pressure from one end and amir would deliver the killer blow from the other end

Asif was a magician, even gul bowled with venom when had asif as his Bowling partner.
 
By giving excuses like that they are selling him short by telling that untill everything is perfect amir will be lacklustre
 
Should definitely play against West Indies. If he doesn't perform there also then he should be dropped from the test team.

You will never find out who is better than amir until you give a chance to a new bowler. Guys like Hasan Ali should get a chance.

Hasan Ali is rubbish.
 
Well he has been disappointing but lets cut him slack. His bowling partners aren't helping him much

I don't think his bowling has deteriorated or has changed, we fans expected too much from him. He was a great bowler but he we hyped him up the extreme. Also, he had a better mentor/partner in Asif. Asif with all his wizardry would build pressure from one end and amir would deliver the killer blow from the other end

Asif was a magician, even gul bowled with venom when had asif as his Bowling partner.

What a funny post. You say Amir was a 'great' bowler then go on to say he was hyped.

He was never a great bowler.
 
Reality has set in. Where are all those who stated that Amir is on Steyn level before his comeback??
 
Its time he is shown the door in test cricket at least. No point being an economical bowler in tests. You need to take wickets. At the moment Rahat Ali, Wahab and Sohail Khan are picking more wickets than him. They bowl a lot of loose stuff but they are still getting more wickets than Aamir.

Junaid Khan definitely needs to get another chance. Asif needs to be given a run as well. Aamir can go back to domestic, perhaps work with Wasim Akram for a while and try to give some good performance in domestic cricket.
 
Why Amir only wahab playing regularly last 6 years what he did nothing everyone saying Amir was best bowler in last test match but he was unlucky some time stats don't say truth
 
Amir has effortless pace at least - but he needs to get in closer to the stumps given the ball isn't swinging for him as much. Our real problem at the moment is that we have a legs spinner who doesn't really turn the ball - and has been found out. We should have played another spinner instead of Imran Khan - 2 spinners win matches in Sydney.
 
Rubbish overhyped player who was never as good. All other pacers despite being 'rubbish' are taking more wickets than him yet this 'great bowler' constantly wastes new ball every match by not taking any wickets. But I guess we can always blame missed edges, dropped catches, Misbah's captaincy and unluck for his rubbish performances.
 
He's looked a good bowler, but at one point you have to put up the numbers.

I can see why fans are getting frustrated.

He shouldn't be immune to getting dropped. Just like everyone else the performance should matter rather than past glory.

Before he goes, the selectors have to remove Wahab, Rahat Ali, and Sohail Khan. Doesn't make sense to drop Amir and keep them.
 
What a funny post. You say Amir was a 'great' bowler then go on to say he was hyped.

He was never a great bowler.

He was a great bowler "developing potentially" into a phenomenal bowler and yes we did hype him up to extreme because of his potential, I mean he was already considered better then wasim at 17. That did him no favor. Expectations flew of the charts.

Thing is we fans hyped him so much that we had already considered him as the greatest thing to have happened since slice bread. He was definitely "developing" into an awesome bowler.

Also, Name me one 17 year old that could bowl with that accuracy, pace and swing at his age. A 17/18 year old kid bowling at 150 Kph with unbelievable control and swing. That does not happen everyday bro
 
He's looked a good bowler, but at one point you have to put up the numbers.

I can see why fans are getting frustrated.

He shouldn't be immune to getting dropped. Just like everyone else the performance should matter rather than past glory.

Before he goes, the selectors have to remove Wahab, Rahat Ali, and Sohail Khan. Doesn't make sense to drop Amir and keep them.

how does he look good does he have a wicket taking stock ball? averages don't lie and he averages 40 since return he bowls too short does not target he stumps enough and has mediocre pace its no wonder he sucks.
 
how does he look good does he have a wicket taking stock ball? averages don't lie and he averages 40 since return he bowls too short does not target he stumps enough and has mediocre pace its no wonder he sucks.

He's looked good in spurts. Dropped catches, edges, plays and misses.

His issue is exactly what you're suggesting. He lacks the finishing blow. It's starting to show in his stats, which is unfortunate for him and the team.

Eventually, he'll have to get dropped if this continues.
 
So who has performed better than amir or is potentialy better than amir?

Hit the nail on it's head. He's not in the team due to past glory. He is performing better than other bowlers.

However, it was apparent the he was initially dragged into the team due to his past glory and BPL performance.

To conclude I would say he is actually doing well and better than other bowlers. He might not be the same bowler as before but I would have him in my side any day due to his speed and little swing that he gets from time to time.
 
He's looked good in spurts. Dropped catches, edges, plays and misses.

His issue is exactly what you're suggesting. He lacks the finishing blow. It's starting to show in his stats, which is unfortunate for him and the team.

Eventually, he'll have to get dropped if this continues.

His main issue is he is a coward for all his play and misses do you remember him ever hitting the pads he just not target the stumps often to be succesfull at this level his bowling plan is useless as mamoon puts it aptly he bowls like a lifeless bowling machiene
 
He has zero impact and doesn't look like taking a wicket. Such mediocrity is not acceptable from someone who is hailed as a magical talent with a biomechanically perfect bowling action.

Before the Australian series, I said that if he fails, he should be dropped from the Test squad and he has failed. The collective ego of his embarrassed fans is too big to accept that they were wrong. Instead, they will come up with every excuse under the sun to defend his extremely ordinary performances.
 
Looks like he going Irfan Pathan way..Start with bang and slowly fade away
 
Hit the nail on it's head. He's not in the team due to past glory. He is performing better than other bowlers.

However, it was apparent the he was initially dragged into the team due to his past glory and BPL performance.

To conclude I would say he is actually doing well and better than other bowlers. He might not be the same bowler as before but I would have him in my side any day due to his speed and little swing that he gets from time to time.

How is he doing better when he has the least wickets and worst average amongst those who played all matches? In every single series he played other bowlers from Pak team took more wickets and averaged better. But there are still claims he is doing better than others as he beats the bat a few time by bowling outside the stump with a new ball
 
When I said that Amir had become mediocre and had lost all his shine a year ago, some Ppers had serious meltdowns. The fact is, despite his so called ' greatness' and barring 'that' India ODI, Amir has done nothing.

He could not even take wickets on sporting NZ tracks! A mediocre bowler. Bin him.
 
So who has performed better than amir or is potentialy better than amir?

Why is everything in "absolute" for most fans? Aamir is underperforming "relative" to whom? Rahat? Wahab? Or, Imran?

Wahab has easily been the better bowler.

With Wahab there is atleast effort, he wants to take a wicket and change things around for the team.

Amir just wants to be done with his spell and stand in some quite corner.

There are plenty of bowlers who do what Amir does, bowl placid spells, look good for a few overs here and there and then blame luck. The only difference is none of them are hyped like he is!!
 
So who has performed better than amir or is potentialy better than amir?

How is he doing better when he has the least wickets and worst average amongst those who played all matches? In every single series he played other bowlers from Pak team took more wickets and averaged better. But there are still claims he is doing better than others as he beats the bat a few time by bowling outside the stump with a new ball

Well he certainly creates more chances than any other bowler.
 
When I said that Amir had become mediocre and had lost all his shine a year ago, some Ppers had serious meltdowns. The fact is, despite his so called ' greatness' and barring 'that' India ODI, Amir has done nothing.

He could not even take wickets on sporting NZ tracks! A mediocre bowler. Bin him.

When you have legends and support group like like Wahab, Rahat, Imran, and Sohail, anyone will be a mediocre.
Our #2 option is Wahab, who only gets selected for his speed. Hasn't taken wickets consistently and no skill so if he isn't being dropped then amir has nothing to worry about.
 
This isn't football. 'Chance creation' is an insignificant metric.
 
When you have legends and support group like like Wahab, Rahat, Imran, and Sohail, anyone will be a mediocre.
Our #2 option is Wahab, who only gets selected for his speed. Hasn't taken wickets consistently and no skill so if he isn't being dropped then amir has nothing to worry about.
As somebody else said , it is the Amir who is having worst average this year among pacers.
 
Has Amir truly declined or have Batsmen become far better since 2010?

Genuine question here guys. I keep hearing the commentators around every series saying "Amir has bowled well without much luck". Its a common recurring statement and there is no doubting it. Amir is bowling as quick as he was in 2009-2010. He pitches the ball wit the exact same seam position the way he was doing when he took the world by storm, he even gets the ball at times to swing the way he was doing so back then (maybe not as much but by no means completely out of the radar). Yet we still see Amir not being that strike bowler of 2010 when he genuinely was either the best or second best pace bowler of the time.

I cannot really explain the reason other than the fact that the new mode of aggressive cricket and the new found aggression found in some of the top players across the world has blunted the talent of Amir. I can name 3-4 batsmen across the world whom Amir no longer has the ability of winning the psychological battle over. Kohli, Williamson, Smith and Root have all dominated Pakistan's main talisman and this is a seriously worrying sign. These are the same players who were emerging at under 19s or International level when Amir was taking 5fas around the world against some of the strongest batting line ups. The absence of Amir and Asif enabled these younger players to become stronger and stronger to the extent that they have reached a level in which no bowler in Pakistan truly has the upper hand on them anymore.

What exactly is the problem here? Does Amir no longer believe he is the phenomenal strike bowler of the past? Do green wickets or swinging wickets truly exist anymore? Are batsmen simply too good these days?
 
He got some dream conditions in Eng in that summer that is all. Even before that his average is mediocre in other countries. Basically he is a Green track bully, like a early anderson.
 
He was work in progress even before his ban. I don't think that he did anything except in very pace friendly conditions in Eng before his ban.
 
He has massivley declined no question however his stats are worse then they should be because he never bowls at the stumps even when he is bowling well he seldom hits the pads with his short of length stuff he is taking two major mode of dismissals out of the game
 
........or, it could be that the hype which many of us bought into was in fact based on a very small performance sample, and he was never really world-class in the first place?
 
Fascination to bowl wide of off stump is not going to earn too many wickets. He needs to attack the stump a bit more.
 
Genuine question here guys. I keep hearing the commentators around every series saying "Amir has bowled well without much luck". Its a common recurring statement and there is no doubting it. Amir is bowling as quick as he was in 2009-2010. He pitches the ball wit the exact same seam position the way he was doing when he took the world by storm, he even gets the ball at times to swing the way he was doing so back then (maybe not as much but by no means completely out of the radar). Yet we still see Amir not being that strike bowler of 2010 when he genuinely was either the best or second best pace bowler of the time.

I cannot really explain the reason other than the fact that the new mode of aggressive cricket and the new found aggression found in some of the top players across the world has blunted the talent of Amir. I can name 3-4 batsmen across the world whom Amir no longer has the ability of winning the psychological battle over. Kohli, Williamson, Smith and Root have all dominated Pakistan's main talisman and this is a seriously worrying sign. These are the same players who were emerging at under 19s or International level when Amir was taking 5fas around the world against some of the strongest batting line ups. The absence of Amir and Asif enabled these younger players to become stronger and stronger to the extent that they have reached a level in which no bowler in Pakistan truly has the upper hand on them anymore.

What exactly is the problem here? Does Amir no longer believe he is the phenomenal strike bowler of the past? Do green wickets or swinging wickets truly exist anymore? Are batsmen simply too good these days?

Yet another thread re Amir. Does the team revolve around him??
 
........or, it could be that the hype which many of us bought into was in fact based on a very small performance sample, and he was never really world-class in the first place?

He just isnt bowling like young amir even when young Amir was not picking wickets you knew it was a matter of time when he will get every thing right this Amir is a shadow of that bowler.
 
As gilly posted in other thread he has sub 30 average in 3 series and over forty in remaining 7 series he played so far.he is in no way world class before and no chance on seeing his last year performances in so called bowling conditions
 
........or, it could be that the hype which many of us bought into was in fact based on a very small performance sample, and he was never really world-class in the first place?

Name me one bowler who was nipping the ball sharply back or away from the batsman at the pace he was bowling at around the time when he was banned? Considering he was only 19 at the time, he took out some of the biggest names of the time and some wickets he took were far valuable in his total wicket count. The way he set up the in-form Dilshan out in the T20 final was testimony to his class, it was the wicket that won Pakistan the match in the first over.
 
........or, it could be that the hype which many of us bought into was in fact based on a very small performance sample, and he was never really world-class in the first place?

Looks like all those wickets he took in 2010 are still painful for the English :yk2 if he wasn't world class then I suppose those English batsman were amateurs to :yk3
 
Looks like all those wickets he took in 2010 are still painful for the English :yk2 if he wasn't world class then I suppose those English batsman were amateurs to :yk3

Exactly I didnt want to put it that way. Cook made his career once Amir went off the scene. KP, Strauss, Bell were all excellent players who didnt really stand much of a chance against him
 
Why are the english still painful of amir? Is that because they won the series or is that due to amir the performances of the english team are tarnished due to his spot fixing ?
 
Exactly I didnt want to put it that way. Cook made his career once Amir went off the scene. KP, Strauss, Bell were all excellent players who didnt really stand much of a chance against him

What a ridiculous comment :facepalm:

Did you not see the way Broad smashed him at Lords in 2010?
 
What a ridiculous comment :facepalm:

Did you not see the way Broad smashed him at Lords in 2010?

Your sounding like a Kid. Do you not see the way Amir fancies Stark as a bowler? Does that make Stark a poor bowler as well?
 
He was over hyped to sky , and stamped with statements from Wasim n Imran.
He was only good in England series,
And ofcourse 6 years away from game took everything away from him.
 
What i can infer from his other performances is that it is a one of flukish performance aided by great bowling conditions as he could not replicate his performance in any other series
 
Heck zaheer khan,rp singh won a series in england but we never hyped them as some all time great bowlers.thats why there is a term called one off or fluke performance for which amir is a classical example
 
Yes, Rohit Sharma was right about Mohammad Amir. He is just a NORMAL BOWLER.

Rohit about Amir:

“Just leave him… He’s just come (after the ban) and I don’t think we should go gaga about him. Let him perform for one more year and we will see whether he deserves so much. Woh koi… (I don’t want to use those words).

“People are comparing him to Wasim Akram and all that. It’s wrong. Let him achieve some bit. Definitely he is got talent but aisa kuch nahin ki aake woh sabko uda hi deta hai (it’s not that he rips apart all line-ups). He’s just a normal bowler who was good on that day.”

Seems like Rohit was right. Amir' is Overhyped.

His performance since commeback is below avg.

Since comeback:
Match - 11
Innings - 20
Wickets - 30
Average - 40.76
Strike rate - 79.2

Below average performance in England. He even failed to pick wickets against WI in UAE. just 6 wickets vs WI in 4 innings Then again failed in NZ on seaming tracks and now getting thrashed in Australia.

Mohammed Shami, Bhuvneshwar Kumar and even Shannon Gabriel performed way better than him in same period of time.

Shami:
Match - 10
Innings - 19
Wickets - 29
Average - 26.86
Strike rate - 56.1
Shami performed better than him against ENG and NZ on less helpful Indian Pitches and even performed better in AUS during 2014-2015 tour.

Bhuvneshwar Kumar played less matches but performed way better.

Gabriel out performed him in 3 match series in UAE

Overall stats of Shami and Kumar is better than Amir too. His current stats are like Ishant Sharma and the way Amir is going i think his stats will get even worse than Ishant.

I think he is overrated like Wahab Riaz.
What do you guys think ?

OVERRATED OVERRATED OVERRATED
 
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