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How many Pakistani Indian foods come from outside?
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Then is Indian Pakistani food really Indian Pakistan?
Cpt. Rishwat
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Don't see any problem with any of that since most Pakistanis have genetic heritage from all of the above.
No they dont. Pakistanis and Indians in general regardless of religion are mainly a mix of ancient iranians, central asians and Andaman islander related populations.
There are a lot of popular but wrong ideas on ancestry. A lot of these are based on what seem to be appearance, but are still wrong. Generally speaking science (genetic analysis) shows that populations migrated <i>from</i> rather than <i>to</i> India.
As for Andamans, there is no shared ancestry between "Andaman islander related populations" and Indians. The closest relatives of the natives of Andamans are the Tibetans and Japanese.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_D-M174
Maybe that's what is taught in your schools in order to be as non-indian as possible and indeed rewrite history. It worked until science advanced and rudely interrupted the narrative. Whether you like it or not you and most Indians will have the same genetic markers.
Pakistanian
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Yeah we were colonized by them and put our own spin on the foods they introduced to if. What's there to be discussed?
rahulrulezz
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Lol no. Most of Pakistanis are actually Indians “Hindus” who converted to Islam due to various reasons.
amax
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well genetic science has shown there is significantly more West Eurasian ancestry in most Pakistanis than most Indians so dont know what are you talking about.
Do you have any academic reference for this "genetic science"? And what exactly are the haplogroups of "West Eurasians"? Much of modern Iranian ancestry is Semitic (due to the Arab conquests) rather than Indo-European as seen from the high percentage of Y-chromosome haplogroup J.
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amax
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according to recent genetics research most Pakistani populations are rich in Iran Neolithic(Indus Valley) and Steppe component, while most Indian populations have these two but they are also have very elevated ASI component, apart from Jatts/Khatris/Brahmins/Sindhis/Kashmiris scattered around in North West India.
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BlackShadow
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Web says,
Biryani originated in India. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biryani
Nihari originated in India. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihari
So, can OP share source to his claims?
Biryani originated in India. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biryani
Nihari originated in India. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihari
So, can OP share source to his claims?
hussain.r97
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By this logic, no country really has their own food as many dishes are inspired from other cuisines.
All of these foods may have originated from other places, but the ones we eat in Pakistan use different spices and flavours, and hence taste different and are different.
The common way of determining ancestry is to look at the Y-chromosome and the mtDNA haplogroups. More sophisticated analysis also looks at autosomal DNA.
Statements like "rich in Iran Neolithic(Indus Valley) and Steppe component" are unscientific. There are no Iran/Indus Valley etc. haplogroups, rather there are R1a, R1b, J1, J2, H etc. haplogroups.
Statements such as "Brahmins do not have elevated ASI component and others do" simply show ignorance of science. Southern Indian Brahmins have a high percentage of Y-chromosome H haplogroup.
If you have a citation that is actually scientific and lists percentages of haplogroups for populations, please provide it instead of making unscientific statements.
Cpt. Rishwat
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Isn't that what I said?
The veggie dishes from India are by them. The meat dishes of Pak have their roots in the Middle East. Samosa's and pakora's are original dishes of the subcontinent.
no, even Samosa is from Middle East
Varun
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South Indian foods are 'Indian' for sure.
BlackShadow
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Your claims have little credibility when you lied about the origins of Biryani and Nihari. Please provide a source.
IMMY69
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Pulao
jusarrived
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There are hundreds of Non veg dishes in India , which are indian .
Ever heard of the internet? even the word Biryani is farsi: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-36423412
Go search for orgin of Nihari and Samosa. Of course these dishes have been Indianized over the years
Varun
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Credit to us for commercializing all these foods then.
I think even many northern Indian veggies dishes are from outside, you are right that South Indian dishes are more Indian.
But I fail to see why many Indians and Pakistanis are so proud of their dishes like Biryani here in the west, even western people are fooled by it
Varun
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Because we're good at marketing. Now the dish is as good as ours, and the Iranians will be hesitant and think twice before claiming it as one of theirs. Muhahaha.
JaDed
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If Britain can try and claim Chicken Tikka Masala, and America ashvagsndha what's wrong in claiming Biryani and Samosas if we make it better than the ones who made it.
Eagle_Eye
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The entire concept of tandoor cooking is from afghans
IMMY69
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Haleem
DeadBall
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Yes, comes from the Arabic Harees.
Varun
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IMMY69
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Also a persian breakfast dish...
pulau is from the Persian polo dish.
From what I gather parsees created certain dishes that are now considered Indian/Pakistani.
Even the work tikka is derived from a persian word, Tike meaning small pieces.
Don't care - it's ours now. Nobody knows what a Harees is. Next!
Not to be rude, but honestly, do hindus even eat these dishes at homes? you guys mostly eat them in restaurants, for us we make them at home. Our moms have made them for generations
Also your attitude shows that really there is very little real south Asian culture. Indians have always adopted things from outside, even religion. Nothing to be proud off really
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Varun
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Biryani - yes. Haleem - no. It's a once in a year thing, only during Ramadan evenings for me personally.
Cpt. Rishwat
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Nothing wrong with adopting from outside, only becomes embarrassing when the Made in India sticker is slapped onto it.
Varun
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You're the only one who watches this show.
Cpt. Rishwat
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It's a show made by British Indians, and was massively popular with the British public. Obviously I don't expect people in India or UAE to be familiar with it, but you can see the relevance.
IMMY69
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Curry being in the top five (if not number 1) favourite food of the Uk ��
Most of the Mughal cuisine is a fusion of Persian/Arabic/Turkish with Indian spices.
Saying India has no cuisine and everything is imported is foolish. We are the ones that taught the world how to properly cook while those said outsiders would simply roast everything without adding any spices that gives the food its taste and flavor and smell.
Religion is not adopted from outside. It is only true for Muslims and Christians. Hindus are sons of the land. Same with Buddhists and Sikhs and Jains. All Dharmic religions are from Indian subcontinent. Its only Muslims and Christians that adopted the invaders religion and even adopted their language by mixing it with the native language.
India still has all of its native languages going strong and everyone takes pride in their language. We do not speak anything that resembles Arabic. English is the only language we teach kids due to job and a chance to grow in career. Its a global economy folks.
Are you kidding? only a nationalist Indian would say that, so outsiders never cooked before Indians taught them lol. All those cultures you mentioned had great cuisines from god knows when. Also since I have lived outside South Asia for a long time, I can say Indian/South Asian cuisine is not even among top 5 in the world. Apart from England, most other westerners prefer other cuisines, Indian food is loaded with heavy spices and over the top oil, almost no one likes that. Like I said in the other Kebab thread, most people don't prefer south Asian kebabs because of the over the top spices, most people eating meat, want to taste the actual meat, not spices
As for your last statement, it has been proven last month from a new genetic paper that Indo Aryans came from outside, dna does not lie. They brought the Rig Vedic beliefs from outside, Hinduism is just a Indianized version of the original Vedic religion
So who are the native Indians you are talking about? The Nicobar Islanders and the tribals of East and South India?
Even Dravidians are not native to India. But those migrations happened thousands of years ago.
Modern day Indians and the Hindu religion have been in India for over 5000 years. It is as Indian as it gets.
There might be some intermixing with people coming from North West.
PetroDollars
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burgers - germany
hotdogs - germany
pizza - italy
steaks - scotland
apple pie - dutch
fries - french
But its the Americans who made them there own.
hotdogs - germany
pizza - italy
steaks - scotland
apple pie - dutch
fries - french
But its the Americans who made them there own.
Such as?
I have read that samosa's were first made and sold at Lahore railway station during the times of colonialism.
Kerala beef fry!
The Indian Vegge Samosa perhaps, but originally they came from middle east, Samosa's always had meat fillings traditionally
Depends on the religion of the butcher. At least in my part of Kerala, it is not and even Muslims don't give a damn. You could get halal beef in North Kerala where muslims are more and comparatively more religious than south.Is it halaal? If so I will make iftaari with it!
We have beef and chicken samosas in Kerala and they are smaller in size. I am not a big fan of North Indian aalo samosa.
Indians/South Asians today are a mix of three main population, original People who existed in south asia, similar to Andaman Islanders, the Andamanese are the genetic cousins to the original south Asians. Next came Iranian farmers around 8000 years ago, who introduced farming and agriculture to south asia, in short they civilized south Asians, Even Indus valley civilization was started by them, then around 3000-4000 years ago large series of migrations from steepe (Indo Aryans) occurred in the north west part of south asia, this brought the Vedic culture/religion, which eventually got Indianized and became modern Hinduism.
My point is that cultures west of us have always given us things, we have adopted them and Indianized them. We never invented anything.
Swashbuckler
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Can't speak about North India as I can't accurately spell out their origin. But in South India there are many indigenous non veg dishes which will be unfamiliar in Pakistan (and may be some even in North India): a few are Chicken 65, Karimeen Fry, Prawns/Fish Kuzhambu, Kerala Beef Fry, Mangalorean Chicken Sukka, Pandi(pork) Curry, Kane Rava Fry, Bommidayila Pulusu, Mutton Kola Urundai, Nadan Kozhi Curry...can go on and on. The method of preparation and ingredients are very different. Seafood choice is extensive and IMO very formidable, also many pork/beef dishes which you don't get in North India. In South East Asia this type of food has many takers, based on my stay there people loved South Indian food a lot. I was thinking of including the very popular dish' Vindaloo' a Konkan specialty but wiki says it has some amount of Portugese influence.
DeadBall
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Not a fan of Indian Alu Samosas at all, also the size is too big. For me personally if it does not contain keema, it's not a samosa.
IMMY69
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If I want a steak i’ll have a juicy ribeye or filet.
Both naturally are Beef.
But who on earth has a beef curry???
Or a beef kebab?
These are always lamb/mutton...
Both naturally are Beef.
But who on earth has a beef curry???
Or a beef kebab?
These are always lamb/mutton...
jusarrived
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I can list a few from Mangalore/Udupi area .
Chicken/fish ( sukka , pulimunchi , gassi , ghee roast ) pork ( bafad , maas ) etc
This is just from 2 districts in Karnataka , like wise you will find few every unique dishes every part of the country
Mamoon
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If you compare the prices of lamb/mutton and beef in Pakistan, you will get your answer.
You should really stop repeating these laughable fairy tales. Your stories about "genetic cousins" are hilarious. If you really have any desire to understand the scientific analysis of ancestry, read up about Y-chromosome and mtDNA haplogroups.
Andaman Islanders are Y-choromosome haplogroup D, which does not exist in mainland India. The only other populations to have it are Tibetans and Japanese.
Your assertion that "Indians" never invented anything can easily be extended to "Africans colonized the world" and everybody else never invented anything.
What sort of delusional world do you live in? If you are going to make statements like "it has been proven last month from a new genetic paper that Indo Aryans came from outside, dna does not lie" then you should be able to provide the reference. Y-chromosome haplogroup R definitely origninated in India as R2 exists almost entirely in India.
[MENTION=141520]troodon[/MENTION]
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Couch Cricketer
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Hmm depends stew type curries are better with beef. So Paya Nihari etc are better with Beef. Though I have to say a Cow is a large animal that many different parts are used for different types of curries. And the beef and mutton that you get in the west like australian etc is not the same as sub continent in taste or texture.
Go read the latest genetic papers released last month in April 2018, it Clearly says the original Indians were related to Andaman Islanders, The reason Indian Ydna changed is because of the two main later arrivals of Iranian Farmers that came around 8000 years ago and migration from the steepes region that occurred 3000-4000 years ago (Indo Aryans) even Indian scientists worked on this new paper, it is a paper from Harvard University. While Indian and Andamanese Ydna is different, their MTdna is very similar, this is why Andamanese are still on the Indian cline. They are related to the oldest ancestors of South Asians
Also you should stop mixing Hindu Nationalism with science, Science will always win!
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You obviously have no idea about science. No scientist says "Go read the latest genetic papers released last month in April 2018". There are dozen of journals which publish articles about genetics. Anyone with any knowledge of science provides an actual date, name of article and name of journal.
"Harvard University" is not a journal.
Y-chromosome haplogroup F which is the patrilineal line of "Indo Aryans" originated in India.
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This is the biggest genetic paper on south Asians so far, with over 600 samples collected from all over, 92 scientists working on it, including many Indians. Your Hindutva fantasies have been shattered, even the many Indians who believed in out of India theory have changed their minds after this paper, obviously you wont read it
And from Which *** did you pull that haplogroup F is related to Indo Aryans? Again trying some new trick for your Hindutva fantasies
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Haplogroup F (origin India) is the patrilineal ancestor of haplogroup R (origin South Asia or Southeast Asia) which itself is the patrilineal ancestor of haplogroup R1. Either R or R1 marks the community in which Indo-Europeans originated.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_F-M89
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R_(Y-DNA)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R1
Your posts are annoying, no more replies from me.
lol Wikipedia, this is your paper? and that too from 2003 and 2010. Many things have changed in the genetic world since then. Read the latest 2018 paper. Haplogroup F mutated 40,000 years ago anyways, that has nothing to do with Indo Aryans, who existed 3000-4000 years ago.
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jusarrived
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Other then pork can you make them for me??
if only I could cook lol
TM Riddle
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We have our special dishes in Rajasthan.
Daal bati churma FTW
Daal bati churma FTW
Sirris
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Human beings influence each other and are influenced. There is no point in taking pride in whose forefather was first to do what. Nor is there any reason to feel ashamed if your forefather copied someone else. Placing your self-worth, self-esteem and sense of pride on such things is only going to harm your well-being in the long run.
Rather than living in the past glories of our individual ancestors we should look to do something productive for our loved ones, the society and the world in the present.
Rather than living in the past glories of our individual ancestors we should look to do something productive for our loved ones, the society and the world in the present.
Sirris
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Does the man who invented the wheel also deserve credit for inventing the bike? Does the man who first invented the steam engine also deserve credit for inventing the electrical motor? Does the man who design the first car also deserves credit for autonomous vehicles? Do the Wright brothers also deserve credit for the Airbus A380?
If so, how much?
When I can't find in Iraq the type of Biryani which I can find in Pakistan than yes it is Pakistani. When I would need to visit 10 different countries to taste the dishes all of which I can find in Pakistan than yes they are Pakistani.
There is nothing to argue about.
I am not arguing about that, I am talking about being so proud of the foods, that are technically not even your's. I would say Indians do that a lot more then Pakistanis though, even on this thread for example look at the Indian behavior, oh it is ours now, we make the best foods blah blah. You should see the Gordon Ramsay episode on India, the way Indians were behaving, my God, so arrogant and ignorant about the foods they didn't even create. Like I said, most Indians of a particular religion don't even make these foods at home, at least we make them at home, our moms have cooked them from generations, the recipes past down from the original Mughal kitchens
Well said!
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