How much would South Africa score against this current West Indies team?

[soso_killer]

You rate SA as the no 2 Test team yet you have no justification for your claim. Apart from AB (even he struggles in some countries) and Amla there are no proven batsmen in your team who you can say can play in other countries. Your bowlers apart from Steyn aren't proven outside SA.

I rate them 3rd behind Australia and England.
Which countries does AB struggle in? IIRC he averages 40+ against the top 7 Test nations away. But please do explain.

The likes of Cook and Co. might not be complete mugs, I do recollect them failing in India and at home vs England but they haven't done anything vs good bowlers to claim they are some of the world's best batsmen.

I did ask specifically if you've watched SA play over the last of 12 months or so. I don't think you have. Cook made his debut against England and scored a hundred on debut. QdK made a come back and scored a hundred in the 4th Test as well. Wasn't even playing in India. Elgar and Bavuma did well, as did Amla. Again if I remember correctly SA batsmen were among the highest scorers (i stand corrected) in that series. The bowling is what let them down.
Faf was massively out of form, and was rightfully dropped. Recently made a century against a decent attack. AB was of colour, Van Zyl has been dropped indefinitely.

Owned by Philander ? Only if all the pitches are green and the umpires don't catch anyone ball tampering.

Yep, his "owned" them before. Have we forgot already? Your memory seems selective.
Believe it or not, not all pitches are green in SA. India played on flat decks the last time they played here, they didn't handle him well.
Did well in England also on flat tracks. You can check the series average of the bowlers.

Rabada is overhyped, he is a potential great but he isn't anything more than decent atm IMO. Against England in the first 3 Tests he got smashed by the tourists, particularly vs Stokes in that double ton and he got the 13fer to cover up his failure in the series beforehand in the 4th Test, a dead rubber when the series was already over.

AGAIN, Have You Watched SA play over the last year or so? You aren't doing a very good job to convince me you have.
Let me enlighten you , AGAIN, Rabada played only 3 of the 4 Test matches. He didn't play in Durban, yet ended the series as a leading wicket taker. He didn't bowl well in Cape Town, then again who did?
Did very well at the Wanderers and Centurion.
He had England in a pickle @91/4 only for Morkel and Viljoen to release the pressure. With Steyn or Vernon around England would have folded around 200.
Who's "hyping" him? He's a better bowler than Morkel already. He can win matches on his own. Morkel never has. He'll be very dangerous in SA, especially against sides who aren't used to pace and bounce.

Of course, I'm not saying Pakistan would have an easy time in SA but I do think they have a great chance to win if Steyn weren't to play.

England who accustomed to pace struggled with Rabada. I can't say the same about Pakistan. An attack of Rabada, Vernon, Morkel and Morris would be too much for most sides in SA conditions.
You seem to have changed from your aggressive stunt "Without Steyn Pakistan would win".

I'm not sure whether you've heard of player cycles or not but 2 years back England were in poor form losing to SL in a 2 match series and then going 1-0 down to India after 2 Tests at home and that's when their resurgence began and since then they have only lost 1 series in Tests and guess who to ? Pakistan.

We've been through cycles before, and faced stronger Asian sides e.g India 07, SA still won 2-1 after going 1-0 down. Winning in SA AND Australia is no joke or walk in the park. England are a very good side, but Australia and SA in their conditions are something else.

Kind of ironic that you say the Pakistani draw in England isn't a big deal since you lost to England in your own backyard. Heck, Pakistan had beaten England at home just a few months before England did the same to SA in 2015.

IMHO it's not. Pakistan did well to draw there. But they didn't win either, hence I'm surprised and shocked by OTT reaction. Drawing in England doesn't amount to automatically winning in SA. That's a fundamentally flawed concept. SA haven't lost a series in England for a good while as well.
Again taking nothing away from England, but we had no Steyn and Vernon. We had no opening pair, that side was very unsettled.

I'm not saying I mind seamer friendly pitches they're food for diversity and make it interesting but what I don't like to see is that when a set of fans use away pitches as excuses for their team's losses away and then don't acknowledge the help of home pitches in their team's victory at home.

No, you compared pitches where teams were dismissed under 50 in SA to the disgraceful pitches in India.
Now that I've illustrated that centuries were scored and the scoring rate was healthy in both matches, you want to change the goal posts? I don't think so.
And besides the two team's that were bowled under 50 were non Asian sides who had the bowling attack to exploit the conditions.
Trying to even remotely compare what happened in India would be severe lack of knowledge on your part.

You also didn't address the issue of your own batsmen away from Home (i.e UAE).
While we're at it I'd like to see the bowlers as well. You seem to rate them very highly.

 

[soso_killer]

Okay I'll spell it out in layman terms.

SA are great when it comes to ODI bilaterals, they probably have the best record out of all teams along with Australia. However, when they play ICC tournaments they lose the plot in KO rounds.

In regards to this they have a fairly healthy sample size and it keeps on getting larger with each ICC tourney.

In 2015, SA lost in the SF of the WC.

SA played their best WC in 2015.
When they beat India in 2011 (and the only side to beat them in that edition), it was a meaningless round robin game.
When India returned the favour in Australia 2015, SA were "chokers", losing a "crucial" match. They lost again to Pakistan in another "key"match.

Come the KO's though they cranked it up. Blew Sri Lanka away, was on the verge of batting NZ out of the game until rain disrupted the acceleration process. I'm not sure how many teams have been screwed twice by rain in the semis of a WC.

But hey, it's gotten to the point that I don't know which games matter anymore.

 

[street cricketer]

Politics are always mangled in sports, it happens everywhere. However the BCCI are abusing the political tension between the two countries. One moment Pakistan are allowed in India, the next moment they aren't. India agrees to tour the UAE, then back track making excuses about match fixing being ripe in that part of the world. When that was disputed, they had to "consult" with the government and acquire "permission". Then the narrative changed completely and wanted to host Pakistan, knowing fully well Pakistan would never agree especially after being strung along like promiscuous women.
And the "quota" system is meant to address to socioeconomic gap between the rich and the poor, provide opportunities for those who had limited access to cricket infrastructures and coaching. Its basically meant to integrate the poor and the disadvantaged into main stream sport. There'll be pros and cons. In the short term SA might be slightly 'diluted', in the long term they'll be stronger and have a wider talent pool. Remember no one is saying white players can't play.
I'm not sure what the benefits of Pakistan-India not playing each other are.

Yes, i believe Asian sides would compete better if they toured regularly than the likes of SA, Aus & Eng. All played more in India.


yes SA have won just one series in India, but have generally done well there. Prior to the apocalypse they had a 5 all record there. Whereas India haven't done anything in SA but cop regular pastings.

For someone who rates away performances very highly, it is strange to see you accusing the Indian team of the last decade of "accumulating points" when they won series in England, NZ, Pakistan and West Indies amd drew in South Africa and Australia. And no, it's a strawman to use Sri Lanka as an excuse to downplay when they have won exactly zero tests in India. As for the relations between India and Pakistan, I don't think India ever agreed to play in the UAE. And it's not because India are "afraid" to take on Pakistan having Misbah and Younis. India have toured Pakistan when the likes of Inzi, MoYo and Younis were in the team. That is again a ridiculous theory. Boards don't think like that. If that was the case, India can quite easily play lesser tests overseas against England and Australia where they have lesser chances of winning than in the UAE. Boards, especially the BCCI doesn't think in terms of results, it always thinks in terms of financial returns. The real reason is because the BCCI is hypocritical and very money minded. Hence it doesn't mind playing Pakistan in the ICC tournaments but refuses to play bilaterals with them unless they host them.

I said SA never bullied India "in India" as you said in your earlier post. India doesn't have a good record in SA. Though they have started to compete well in South Africa since 2000.

 

[soso_killer]

[MENTION=134473]Haroon786[/MENTION] Rabada is a good bowler, No?
We still need Steyn, but we will win matches in familiar conditions SA, NZ and Eng. The Australian series win is still a surprise and one i couldn't account for.
Was expecting a series draw at best, even with a fit Steyn. A heavy defeat at the WACCA, draw in Hobart