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How the mighty West Indies have fallen

WhenSultansBowled

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The once all-conquering West Indies cricket team is a mere minnow in 2016.

Long gone are the days when Viv and Marshall dominated oppositions.

In 80s they were ruthless. Never lost a series. Out of all test playing nations only Pakistan were able to compete :ik

Their bowling attack in 80s:
Malcolm Marshall
Andy Roberts
Michael Holding
Joel Garner


With emergence of T20s and player-board disputes, will we ever see WI dominance in our lifetimes?

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They are still a formidable team in LOIs. They are just going through a prolonged dry period, similar to the one Sri Lanka has just started.

There is also a lot of money in football and athletics driving prospects away from cricket. Personally I think it is healthy for a nation to diversify the number of sports it focuses on.
 
They'll be back. Gabriel's developing nicely. Alzarri will join him soon and they've got a few other young ones with good potential.
 
Gabriel is injury prone and is already 28.

Bowling with much better alignment now. His whole body's pushing forward, better use of the front arm and the head is still. There's consistency in his action whereas previously his body alignment was very poor, primarily the reason for his injuries.
 
People just need to get on with the fact that the WI are just not a good Test team anymore. This is one of gazillion threads about how the mighty have fallen.
 
They'll be back. Gabriel's developing nicely. Alzarri will join him soon and they've got a few other young ones with good potential.

Also the other u19 fast bowler, Chemar Holder (I don't think it's spelled Kemar)

Their U19 team was very promising with good fast bowlers in Joseph and Holder but also other all rounders, ones name was Shamar Springer and there were some other decent bowlers.

Lets see how these U19 players develop over the next 5 years.
 
Its been more than a decade since the fall, but credit to them, they are still a world class team at home.
 
I don't think it bothers the players anymore. They are happy touring the world making money.

The ones who do care are not good enough.
 
I don't think it bothers the players anymore. They are happy touring the world making money.

The ones who do care are not good enough.

or do they care because they arent good enough to get the opportunity to tour the world making money>
 
Its been more than a decade since the fall, but credit to them, they are still a world class team at home.

Not world class but as you said in the other thread, deceptively hard at home.

Yesterday was poor cricket from them though.

Ideally should have lost only one wicket.

We almost self destructed against long hops. lol.
 
Not world class but as you said in the other thread, deceptively hard at home.

Yesterday was poor cricket from them though.

Ideally should have lost only one wicket.

We almost self destructed against long hops. lol.

in this decade they have only won a single test series at home against a major side. Even at home they are at best only capable of causing an upset nothing more.
 
in this decade they have only won a single test series at home against a major side. Even at home they are at best only capable of causing an upset nothing more.

True.

They can only win a test here and there but they do that.

In the last 10 years, they won 11 tests (7 against non minnows), lost 16 tests and drew 10 tests.

That's why I said deceptively hard compared to their current stature where they can't win anything outside home in tests.

If for this test, they had picked few more proper out and out pacers, then they would have been in business.

Gabriel was getting the ball to bounce well. Jason Holder in the old spell caused a few problems but apart from them there was nothing much.
 
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in this decade they have only won a single test series at home against a major side. Even at home they are at best only capable of causing an upset nothing more.

They are still better at home than away. They have drawn some series - PAksitan a few times, England last time. Beat England in 2009. Also won against NZ in some matches. Away they get whitewashed.
 
They are still a formidable team in LOIs. They are just going through a prolonged dry period, similar to the one Sri Lanka has just started.

There is also a lot of money in football and athletics driving prospects away from cricket. Personally I think it is healthy for a nation to diversify the number of sports it focuses on.

Only the Desi countries aren't competing for talent with other sports.

The West Indian ODI team isn't any good anyway
 
Only the Desi countries aren't competing for talent with other sports.

The West Indian ODI team isn't any good anyway

True but the same desi teams have no structure in place which means countless good players decide to leave sports to concentrate on studies. Many don't even give it a try.

Plus desi nations don't have the standard of living like developed nations. So if someone fails to make it even in a cash rich sport like cricket, they would struggle hard (if they don't have education) cos manual labour jobs here means you are barely above poverty.

Not literally but close.
 
Both Pakistan and West Indies show harping on about talent does not address the shortcomings in management and in the system. WI's FC competition is of a poor standard and the pitches not conducive to good cricket. You look at so many of their FC batsmen and you see the majority average in the 20s and low 30s on these slow, low pitches. No wonder they've produced a surfeit of spinners and not much else.

They need to be in Division 2 of Test cricket for their own sake to compete against teams around them.
 
Both Pakistan and West Indies show harping on about talent does not address the shortcomings in management and in the system. WI's FC competition is of a poor standard and the pitches not conducive to good cricket. You look at so many of their FC batsmen and you see the majority average in the 20s and low 30s on these slow, low pitches. No wonder they've produced a surfeit of spinners and not much else.

They need to be in Division 2 of Test cricket for their own sake to compete against teams around them.

I agree with your post except the bold part. If ICC move them to Division 2 then I am sure Test cricket in WI will die in a decade. Now, at least they are getting some revenue when India, Aus or England visit them.
 
No surprise really. At home in tests and in LOI formats they will be a decent team.
 
The once all-conquering West Indies cricket team is a mere minnow in 2016.

Long gone are the days when Viv and Marshall dominated oppositions.

In 80s they were ruthless. Never lost a series. Out of all test playing nations only Pakistan were able to compete :ik

Their bowling attack in 80s:
Malcolm Marshall
Andy Roberts
Michael Holding
Joel Garner


With emergence of T20s and player-board disputes, will we ever see WI dominance in our lifetimes?

gjEh0yV.png

In T20 which they care about, they are arguably in that dominating mode.
 
Ever since the 1987-88 Tour of the Century I have wanted to attend a West Indies v Pakistan Test series in the Caribbean.

But next year's series is such a mismatch, I can't be bothered to go.
 
Ever since the 1987-88 Tour of the Century I have wanted to attend a West Indies v Pakistan Test series in the Caribbean.

But next year's series is such a mismatch, I can't be bothered to go.

That's going to be one long plane ride, if you go.
 
That's going to be one long plane ride, if you go.

I'm definitely not going - I've booked a trip to America instead.

I am an inveterate cricket and football tourist. I'll happily travel huge distances for special experiences.

Because I'm British I love Barbados and enjoy exploring cricket-related locations. Next time I'm going to go to see the late Tony Cozier's beach house at Bathsheba (which I have even flirted with putting in a bid for!).

In the past I've enjoyed searching out Wes Hall's birthplace next to a prison and Curtly Ambrose's hometown of Swetes on Antigua.

But I've never attended a cricket match in the West Indies.
 
They have still not fallen enough for us to beat them at Home. 
 
A big misconception people have is that its only a few teams that are going down like Zim and WI. Reality is, cricket is taking a massive downward spiral.

Its not the inavaialability of technology, lack of quality players. Its simply the lack of fanbase. Most Indian and Bangladesh youngsters these days are far more geared towards football than cricket.

However, here is the BIGGER catch. Football is appealing the higher-income population. I for one come from a very good background so I could afford English medium education here in Bangladesh. I have been involved in many international programs where I have met a huge number of Indians as well. Around 50 of my facebook friends are Indian. So I am mostly acquianted with people of moderate to upper class be it Bangladeshi and Indians. Keep in mine, I am strictly talking about those in their late teens or they are young adults who are the most important target. While many follows cricket quite a bit, especially when the team is doing spectacularly well or during the world cup, pretty much everyone is invested in football it would seem. Euro, Copa America were all seen with great interest yet hardly much IPL or even the WT20 for that matter.

So now if most of the upper class and middle class are losing interest in cricket, it doesn't help in the long run because it is usually these group of people who are the major target of TV broadcasters, sponsors, and usually its these people who go on to be cricketers. The working class or lower class people still follow the sport like a religion, but they too are seemingly losing interest in the game.



WHY? WHY NOT?

20-30 premier leagues a year, each team playing each other a million times over a year. Constant change in rules, handful of emerging teams are all the driving force behind the declining popularity of cricket. Once the market in the Subcontinent dies down, and it will within 20-30, cricket will become a low-profile sport.

Want to avoid it? Then need to get cricket in the olympics, invest more on associates, and stop trying to seduce the American culture into picking up cricket. It won't happen.
 
I'm definitely not going - I've booked a trip to America instead.

I am an inveterate cricket and football tourist. I'll happily travel huge distances for special experiences.

Because I'm British I love Barbados and enjoy exploring cricket-related locations. Next time I'm going to go to see the late Tony Cozier's beach house at Bathsheba (which I have even flirted with putting in a bid for!).

In the past I've enjoyed searching out Wes Hall's birthplace next to a prison and Curtly Ambrose's hometown of Swetes on Antigua.

But I've never attended a cricket match in the West Indies.

Really cool! Enjoy traveling. ;-)
 
Ever since the 1987-88 Tour of the Century I have wanted to attend a West Indies v Pakistan Test series in the Caribbean.

But next year's series is such a mismatch, I can't be bothered to go.

They'll be vastly improved by the time we play them.
 
Can't believe people still talk about once mighty West Indies - last time they were mighty was 25 years ago. Around the time of Pakistan's World Cup win - which is also a constant reference. So the headline is 24 years too late.

I will say Pakistan has never won a test series in WI and this would be a good time - but you never know with us.

Also, one should not take credit away from India who are winning on their travels unlike before. It's a change and must be welcomed.
 
They won't make any difference to the medium term prospects but where are:

Fidel Edwards - granted he is 34 now. Heard he has given up on international cricket to become a Kolpak and get a couple of seasons' county money but injured himself playing football.

Jerome Taylor - 32 now so still a couple of years in him. Is he injured?

Kemar Roach - only 28. Assumed he's injured.

It's a shame they were very rarely able to put those 3 together as they would have been a decent attack as they also have a few decent spinners.

The last 16 years have been pitiful. I always thought the 2000 tour of England was the turning point as before that it was almost unthinkable for England to beat the West Indies let alone the manner in which they did.
 
China has a better team than this WI team. The Windians have a useless bowling attack and exactly one decent batsman.
 
They won't make any difference to the medium term prospects but where are:

Fidel Edwards - granted he is 34 now. Heard he has given up on international cricket to become a Kolpak and get a couple of seasons' county money but injured himself playing football.

Jerome Taylor - 32 now so still a couple of years in him. Is he injured?

Kemar Roach - only 28. Assumed he's injured.

It's a shame they were very rarely able to put those 3 together as they would have been a decent attack as they also have a few decent spinners.

The last 16 years have been pitiful. I always thought the 2000 tour of England was the turning point as before that it was almost unthinkable for England to beat the West Indies let alone the manner in which they did.

Kemar Roach is also bad at cricket now. 4 wickets in his last 7 test matches is unacceptable.
 
A big misconception people have is that its only a few teams that are going down like Zim and WI. Reality is, cricket is taking a massive downward spiral.

Its not the inavaialability of technology, lack of quality players. Its simply the lack of fanbase. Most Indian and Bangladesh youngsters these days are far more geared towards football than cricket.

However, here is the BIGGER catch. Football is appealing the higher-income population. I for one come from a very good background so I could afford English medium education here in Bangladesh. I have been involved in many international programs where I have met a huge number of Indians as well. Around 50 of my facebook friends are Indian. So I am mostly acquianted with people of moderate to upper class be it Bangladeshi and Indians. Keep in mine, I am strictly talking about those in their late teens or they are young adults who are the most important target. While many follows cricket quite a bit, especially when the team is doing spectacularly well or during the world cup, pretty much everyone is invested in football it would seem. Euro, Copa America were all seen with great interest yet hardly much IPL or even the WT20 for that matter.

So now if most of the upper class and middle class are losing interest in cricket, it doesn't help in the long run because it is usually these group of people who are the major target of TV broadcasters, sponsors, and usually its these people who go on to be cricketers. The working class or lower class people still follow the sport like a religion, but they too are seemingly losing interest in the game.



WHY? WHY NOT?

20-30 premier leagues a year, each team playing each other a million times over a year. Constant change in rules, handful of emerging teams are all the driving force behind the declining popularity of cricket. Once the market in the Subcontinent dies down, and it will within 20-30, cricket will become a low-profile sport.

Want to avoid it? Then need to get cricket in the olympics, invest more on associates, and stop trying to seduce the American culture into picking up cricket. It won't happen.

I can tell you for sure that there is really one and only one sport in India : Cricket. Watch any IPL footage on youtube any random match and there will be decent crowd. What you are talking about is Cool Wannabe kids wanting to be Cool by being Liverpool or ManU fans .... lol Not representative of the entire nation.
 
They have fallen since 20+ years now..
 
I can tell you for sure that there is really one and only one sport in India : Cricket. Watch any IPL footage on youtube any random match and there will be decent crowd. What you are talking about is Cool Wannabe kids wanting to be Cool by being Liverpool or ManU fans .... lol Not representative of the entire nation.

No I am not talking about cool wannabe kids. I am talking about a good chunk of the next generation.

And I feel a lot of youngsters in India are being inclined to watching Barclays premier league. Here in Bangladesh, the popularity of La Liga and BPL are on the rise, at the demise of cricket. While all Indian and Bangladeshi home matches and league matches like IPL and Bangladesh Premier leagues are sold out, it doesn't give the whole picture.

I am quite sure of it in Bangladesh. Yes, there is a great level of interest amidst everyone, always has been. But it seems the interest towards football is more. Obviously, I never lived in India and it still is a crazy cricket loving nation. That however doesn't mean that the interest level is lowering. Without doubt, cricket in Pak, BD and India will always be the top sport by a landslide, however, one cannot hope but feel that overall its going to become less of an obsession.

Look at the picture at SL. I don't see any fans in the stadium for test match, and perhaps a few thousand at best in ODIs. No doubt, the population in SL is nothing compared to ours but there was a time when lankans would flock into the stadiums. This is also does have a lot to do with the retirement of Sanath and Murali who were quite exciting players
 
Meanwhile.

ST JOHN’S, Antigua - The West Indies Cricket Board (WICB) has taken note of the repeated “calls to conduct a forensic audit of the Board in order to save West Indies cricket from absolute and total downfall” made by former officials of the WICB.

This call for a forensic audit was recently published by ESPNcricinfo on September 8, 2016. The WICB has been advised there are similar publications by the former officials.

These calls for a forensic audit by the former officials are without any basis in fact, and importantly, notwithstanding, that these former officials are aware that the WICB has for many years retained internal and external auditors.

The Board’s internal and external audits are done and authorised by Price Waterhouse and KPMG respectively, and accounts are published by or available from the WICB on all its platforms, including the website where the reports are available.

The WICB notes that these allegations appear triggered not by fact or evidence but an emotional reaction to the WICB’s response to the CARICOM sub committee’s report and other matters. These officials have completely ignored the written responses of the WICB.

The Board has been advised that in a number of instances the call for a forensic audit carries the suggestion of wrong doing and misappropriation of WICB funds by present members of the WICB. Additionally, it suggests the auditors are either incompetent or complicit. These allegations are completely false, and seriously damaging to the reputation of the WICB, its members, and auditors.

The WICB has therefore decided that these are serious allegations and has referred the matter to Senior Counsel, Anthony Astaphan of Dominica, for his advice and recommendations.
 
I can tell you for sure that there is really one and only one sport in India : Cricket. Watch any IPL footage on youtube any random match and there will be decent crowd. What you are talking about is Cool Wannabe kids wanting to be Cool by being Liverpool or ManU fans .... lol Not representative of the entire nation.


Nah the guy is right the popularity of football is growing still not at a level of cricket of course but it's growing..

When I started watching football in late 90's there were 3-4 friends in school who used to watch it.. Now for big matches I go to screening events and damn the craze is too much.. Went to a Liverpool vs United match a few years back organised by Liverpool supporters and me and my friends were only united supporters and those 500 odd Liverpool kids actually hated us lol..

So yea football craze in metropolitans is increasing every year eventually if we ever qualify for the football World Cup and do decently then you could see it overtaking cricket as well..
 
Nah the guy is right the popularity of football is growing still not at a level of cricket of course but it's growing..

When I started watching football in late 90's there were 3-4 friends in school who used to watch it.. Now for big matches I go to screening events and damn the craze is too much.. Went to a Liverpool vs United match a few years back organised by Liverpool supporters and me and my friends were only united supporters and those 500 odd Liverpool kids actually hated us lol..

So yea football craze in metropolitans is increasing every year eventually if we ever qualify for the football World Cup and do decently then you could see it overtaking cricket as well..

How can that happen? Football is a Club Based Sport, these foreign clubs in far away continents consisting of foreign players can never be the match for the National Cricket team.

I feel a sense of belonging to the team representing my country, my city, a player whose from my city / country and representing my IPL / National team.

Why would the whole country bother about some random player from Ecuador or Venezuela scoring in some European league? Only a few wannabes do that, and difference is that they make the most noise.

Begaani Shaadi main Abdullah Deewana types. Na club Se kuch Lena dena, na players se kuch lena dena mager jabardasti supporter bane huwe hai.

All these football Crazy South American countries / Mexico don't consist of people who are fans of far away leagues, they also have popular domestic leagues of their own, with 100-150 years old rivalries. These domestic matches are attended with more passion than going to some random pub wearing EPL Jerseys. This is how Football sustains the level of interest and passion in these counties. It has history, tradition and culture.

What does India have in comparison? Just a bunch of wannabes showing off their newly bought EPL or Barcelona Jerseys. Time has gone to develop any new rivalries now.

Football in India can only become as popular as it is in USA or Australia, where people are pre-occupied with different Sports throughout four years except the World Cup, sports which are ingrained in the local culture.
 
How can that happen? Football is a Club Based Sport, these foreign clubs in far away continents consisting of foreign players can never be the match for the National Cricket team.

I feel a sense of belonging to the team representing my country, my city, a player whose from my city / country and representing my IPL / National team.

Why would the whole country bother about some random player from Ecuador or Venezuela scoring in some European league? Only a few wannabes do that, and difference is that they make the most noise.

Begaani Shaadi main Abdullah Deewana types. Na club Se kuch Lena dena, na players se kuch lena dena mager jabardasti supporter bane huwe hai.

All these football Crazy South American countries / Mexico don't consist of people who are fans of far away leagues, they also have popular domestic leagues of their own, with 100-150 years old rivalries. These domestic matches are attended with more passion than going to some random pub wearing EPL Jerseys. This is how Football sustains the level of interest and passion in these counties. It has history, tradition and culture.

What does India have in comparison? Just a bunch of wannabes showing off their newly bought EPL or Barcelona Jerseys. Time has gone to develop any new rivalries now.

Football in India can only become as popular as it is in USA or Australia, where people are pre-occupied with different Sports throughout four years except the World Cup, sports which are ingrained in the local culture.

You missed the main part where I mentioned "If India qualifies for the World Cup and do well".. Unless we as a country do well football can never be the mainstream sport.. If we do well as a country then rise of popularity franchise base sports and India winning Asian competitions and doing well in global tournaments will result in ISL competiting with IPL..

Also if India could get a player in a club like United or Liverpool arsenal etc people would support that club like crazy.. All depends on Indian representation in football which at the moment is pretty poor..
 
You missed the main part where I mentioned "If India qualifies for the World Cup and do well".. Unless we as a country do well football can never be the mainstream sport.. If we do well as a country then rise of popularity franchise base sports and India winning Asian competitions and doing well in global tournaments will result in ISL competiting with IPL..

Also if India could get a player in a club like United or Liverpool arsenal etc people would support that club like crazy.. All depends on Indian representation in football which at the moment is pretty poor..

Yah, that will be a fun time when the real battle between Cricket and Footballer starts in India. Whether or not ISL will be able to attract more eyeballs and generate more revenue than IPL.

The popularity of Football in India can only be judged on domestic level about how passionate are people regarding the Indian brand of Football.

Watching a few European League matches on weekends and then getting back to Cricket on other days is hardly any competition for Cricket. It will start only when the Local Football League filled with International Stars, High Quality of Football, Quality Domestic players and Lots of money on offer begins to snatch viewers away and revenue from IPL/ Indian Cricket matches.
 
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First of all, credit goes to Imad Wasim and the team Pakistan for the way they've ruthlessly dominated WI. It was as if world champs were mere minnows.

T20Is being the strongest format of WI, I am a bit worried about their recent performance. Always want Pakistan to win but expected some fight from WI. :|
 
The pain of Viv Richards and Ian Bishop on commentary is clearly evident. They seem to be embarrassed by this lot.
 
Extremely impressed by Bravo! :lara

What an innings. There is talent in West Indies and hopefully we'll see them consistently winning!
 
More like Revenge of the Fallen! fantastic effort from this team, goes to show Caribbean cricket is not dead, just needs professional support and a robust set up
 
Batting properly applied itself in this Test. If you can replace the hit and miss Blackwood with Vishaul Singh you have a decent batting unit.

The bowling needs work. Holder is a decent bat but offers no threat with the ball. He has the height but lacks the pace to be threatening. He should reinvent himself as a top 6 batsman who can bowl a little.

West Indies haven't had a potent new ball pairing since Ambrose and Walsh. The likes of Dillon, Collymore, Taylor and Edwards have come and gone. Hopefully Alzarri Joseph can kick on, he seems like an intelligent bowler who has pace. Miguel Cummins is raw but hopefully he and Joseph can be a decent pairing for them.

Shannon Gabriel has pace but can be erratic and his fitness is always an issue.
 
no need to get sentimental

this is sport- every team in the world goes through this, they have ups and downs

WI was once great, now they're at the bottom
 
They're forming a good nucleus of young players.

I don't think so. Pakistan itself has lots of out of for old players, winning against Pakistan is no big deal. WI would get slaughtered by current New Zealand or England, let alone South Africa or Australia/India
 
If west indies would muster their best set of players ever for ODIs and tests they would have been a force to reckon with, better than SL NZ BD Pak easily.

Such a shame.
 
Well, what a win for them. All credit to Hope and Shannon.

It seems to me Pak test cricket will fall in next few years tho.
 
You missed out Juni.

TBH, I love both teams and it hurts to see them reduced to this.

With the West Indies, terrible management means this is a half-strength side.

With Pakistan, seven players aged over 30!
 
They can't get back to their glory days but if managed properly they can be a half decent team..
 
TBH, I love both teams and it hurts to see them reduced to this.

With the West Indies, terrible management means this is a half-strength side.

With Pakistan, seven players aged over 30!

Yet the two teams produced a cracking Test Match ... Do you see my point about some past teams and players not being of the high quality they are hyped up to be ?
 
So after winning the 1st test, a great achievement by team WI, they've England at 71/4 * in 22.2 overs.

I wanna see the West Indies wreak some havoc in the cricket world :viv
 
Hopefully, WI will emerge as one of major top 4-5 cricket nations in 2020s.
 
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