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How to fit both Haris Sohail and Asif Ali in Pakistan's ODI playing XI?

Now that Imam's cemented his spot for now, think we can play Haris down the order now. Allows us to play Sarfraz at 5 not 4, which is better for him, not high enough that the fast bowlers will get at him too early, not low enough that he'll need to hit out. Can focus on what he does best milking the singles and scoring against the spinners.

1. Imam
2. Fakhar
3. Babar
4. Haris
5. Sarfraz
6. Asif
7. Malik

And Malik, Haris, Fakhar combined can easily make up 10 overs. Malik and Asif could potentially swap places depending on situation, Malik to rebuild if things go wrong, otherwise play Asif to start upping the run rate.
 
Greenstorm said:
Open with Haris. Imam is wasting a spot.
Click to expand...

On what basis , haris should be selected ahead of Imam ?Haris has not done anything of note on international stage except some few good looking 30s , not even a single century, he has scored .Haris needs to earn his spot in middle order , not a spot should be gifted to him . Especially in the circumstances , when a young opener is doing better , no need for make shift opener in form of haris .
 
ads101 said:
Now that Imam's cemented his spot for now, think we can play Haris down the order now. Allows us to play Sarfraz at 5 not 4, which is better for him, not high enough that the fast bowlers will get at him too early, not low enough that he'll need to hit out. Can focus on what he does best milking the singles and scoring against the spinners.

1. Imam
2. Fakhar
3. Babar
4. Haris
5. Sarfraz
6. Asif
7. Malik

And Malik, Haris, Fakhar combined can easily make up 10 overs. Malik and Asif could potentially swap places depending on situation, Malik to rebuild if things go wrong, otherwise play Asif to start upping the run rate.
Click to expand...

So who are you dropping?
 
I would drop him and send him back to get fit again. He isnt reliable and we need to give someone else a chance. Imam is someone who should not be dropped in favour of Haris.
 
Godhelpma said:
On what basis , haris should be selected ahead of Imam ?Haris has not done anything of note on international stage except some few good looking 30s , not even a single century, he has scored .Haris needs to earn his spot in middle order , not a spot should be gifted to him . Especially in the circumstances , when a young opener is doing better , no need for make shift opener in form of haris .
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You are mixing formats. Haris has scored 5 fifties in last 5 ODIs he played in. Last two of them were scored in NZ, that too on his comeback, where no one else apart from Fakhar was performing. If anyone deserves a chance, its Harris.
 
There's no point in dropping players who are either performing, or are improving. Imam and Faheem fit either of those two categories.

Haris is an automatic starter in Tests, but for now he'll have to serve as Malik's backup in ODIs and will get his chance as a starter once Malik retires after the WC, OR Imam goes terribly out of form, or someone gets injured.

If the batting is performing just fine, there's no need to shove Haris in there. Not a fan of bowling 10 overs worth of part-timers; we aren't India, and bowling is our strength.

Faheem will come good with the bat.
 
Square Drive said:
There's no point in dropping players who are either performing, or are improving. Imam and Faheem fit either of those two categories.

Haris is an automatic starter in Tests, but for now he'll have to serve as Malik's backup in ODIs and will get his chance as a starter once Malik retires after the WC, OR Imam goes terribly out of form, or someone gets injured.

If the batting is performing just fine, there's no need to shove Haris in there. Not a fan of bowling 10 overs worth of part-timers; we aren't India, and bowling is our strength.

Faheem will come good with the bat.
Click to expand...

When? And will it be before the world cup? That's the issue. If we had 4 years till the world cup, no harm letting him fail for a year or two.

I personally see little improvement in Faheem, it isn't happening quick enough. And it's mostly with the ball, though he still hasn't hit the level I'd even expect from a 3rd pacer.
 
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Greenstorm said:
You are mixing formats. Haris has scored 5 fifties in last 5 ODIs he played in. Last two of them were scored in NZ, that too on his comeback, where no one else apart from Fakhar was performing. If anyone deserves a chance, its Harris.
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No bro , I am not confusing formats at all . Last time , I checked haris has played 24 ODIs since his debut in 2015 ,but has not scored a single century till date . Not even his any of odi innings was impactful to get him a MOM award .So it is not mandatory to change a young opener who appears promising , just to fit in Haris Sohail .Let Haris Sohail should perform first and make an impact , then we should talk how to drop a performing player for haris .
 
ads101 said:
When? And will it be before the world cup? That's the issue. If we had 4 years till the world cup, no harm letting him fail for a year or two.

I personally see little improvement in Faheem, it isn't happening quick enough. And it's mostly with the ball, though he still hasn't hit the level I'd even expect from a 3rd pacer.
Click to expand...

When he gets the chance. Coming in during the last 2 overs is hardly a chance. And now obviously he won't get much of a chance against Zimbabwe.

In the Asia Cup and then against NZ, SA, AUS, and ENG he should be getting enough chances.

He's touching 140 kph, which is pretty good for an all-rounder.

And it's not like we have a like-for-like replacement for him. Too late to give a Yamin or an Amad Butt an extended run, so our best option is to just stick with him.

Absolute worse case we can slot Haris in; he'll be playing the upcoming Tests and will have enough match practice. But I back Faheem to come through.
 
Imam's performances against Zimbabwe are going to damage us in the long term. Watch as he struggles against all quality opposition for the next year, starts at the world cup, fails, and then Pakistan having to expirement AT the world cup.

Ideally, Haris needs to be expiremented as an opener in this series.
 
Godhelpma said:
No bro , I am not confusing formats at all . Last time , I checked haris has played 24 ODIs since his debut in 2015 ,but has not scored a single century till date . Not even his any of odi innings was impactful to get him a MOM award .So it is not mandatory to change a young opener who appears promising , just to fit in Haris Sohail .Let Haris Sohail should perform first and make an impact , then we should talk how to drop a performing player for haris .
Click to expand...

Players like Imam have no place in modern day LOI cricket and specially in a team like Pakistan where we have loads of accumulators. Imam is a promising test opener but he is too one dimensional for ODIs. Modern day openers should have the ability to dominate opposition bowlers once they get set, their overall career strike rate should be close to 90 with 40+ average and I cannot see Imam doing any of that.

You would be naive to think that Imam's 128 (134) against Zimbabwe's club level attack had any sort of impact. Infact, he was the reason behind us finishing at 308/7 despite of Asif's cameo. On another day, it could have been a match losing innings.

I do not know why our fans and Mickey want an accumulator as 2nd opener with Fakhar. First it was Azhar, then Shehzad and now Imam. I am sure that if Sharjeel had not been banned, Fakhar may not have been playing for Pakistan now.

Ideally, Farhan should be opening with Fakhar in ODIs. He has performed heavily in domestics and he has the ability to dominate bowlers and score at a quick rate once he gets set. But because he is not part of the squad, Haris is the next best option. It should be between Haris and Farhan for the 2nd opener at WC 2019. We are wasting our time with Sami, Azhar, Shehzad, Hafeez and now Imam.
 
Abdullah719 said:
Look, there's a lot of people who post nonsense on PP but I only replied to you because you're one of the more respected posters around here who has been around for a while so I expect some strong points or logic behind your posts, not 'he is a hack' and 'you kiddies'.

His knee injury is not an EXCUSE, it's a reality. You may not be aware of the mismanagement of his injury, or the goof ups that he had to endure in order to regain full fitness. However, I am aware of what happened which is why I have sympathy for him.

Tired of the saviour talk, there is no such thing as a saviour be it Imran Khan with regards to Pakistan politics or Haris Sohail/Babar Azam with relation to Pakistan batsmanship.

Before his injury, he had three strong seasons of first-class cricket, hitting 10 hundreds and 12 fifties between 2010 and 2013. This is not a fluke. This is not the output of a hack, or a brainless cricketer.

He is rated highly because of his ability. He has time when he plays the pacers - Anyone with a keen eye can see that and Mickey Arthur has mentioned it as well. It's a natural gift, not something you can learn. He is generally capable against lateral movement - You can see people hopping around when the ball is moving but he is technically decent and knows how to survive. These are qualities that are hard to find with Pakistani batsman and the main reason for why people support him and hope that he can turn his career around.

His current issues are lack of fitness, he is a smoker, lacks confidence and concentration. These are all issues that can be rectified with some effort, once he starts playing regular cricket once again. A full season of cricket would do him good.

People don't simply rate him because they are part of some Haris Sohail fan club, or because they like a couple of fancy off-drives. Who knows, he may bounce back and regain the form he had in the early 2010s, or he may fail like umpteen other Pakistan batsman. At the end of the day, there are reasons for rating a player but that's no guarantee of success (and vice versa). And for that matter, reasons for disliking a player - But logic and facts have to be the focal point of the argument, not buzzwords.
Click to expand...

Fixed. He also comes across as lazy and poor in the field.
 
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People criticising Haris's fielding should watch the NZ T20 series again.
 
Still no room for Haris in the playing XI :mv.
 
He's another accumulator. Can't play Babar, Imam and Harris in the same XI. Plus he needs to convert his starts and show more intensity in the field.
 
mak36 said:
Still no room for Haris in the playing XI :mv.
Click to expand...

The only way atm seems to be to drop Malik but we all know that ain’t happening.

More realistically, if Imam has poor series vs AUS, NZ & SA, team mgmt might try Haris as an opener
 
If Malik fails in this series and NZ ODIs, I would like Haris to take his place for the series against South Africa.
 
Shame that Farhan and Talat were not around for longer, more attacking batsman than Imam, who hasn’t looked great.

Haris is a definite for the test top 3, I’d be interested to see how he’d do as an ODI opener...comes down to whether he can punish the full ball regularly - he drives well in whites...
 
Ideally, this should be our top 6 in ODIs after this Asia cup.

1. Fakhar
2. Farhan
3. Babar
4. Harris
5. Sarfaraz
6. Asif Ali
 
Haris is another accumulator - no need for him right now

Malik and Asif are more valuable right now
 
coy0607 said:
Haris is another accumulator - no need for him right now

Malik and Asif are more valuable right now
Click to expand...

He's our best player of pace and bounce. There is every need for him.
 
the Great Khan said:
I would drop him and send him back to get fit again. He isnt reliable and we need to give someone else a chance. Imam is someone who should not be dropped in favour of Haris.
Click to expand...

There is literally no more reliable player than Haris in the ODI set up, if by reliable we mean, likely to put up a decent score and not get out cheaply. He has scored half centuries in every one of his last 5 ODIs, and was a rock in NZ, averaging better than Williamson. Malik meanwhile has been pretty inconsistent recently against decent opposition, and adds nothing with the ball anymore.
 
coy0607 said:
based on what? a couple of 50's in NZ?
Click to expand...

Based on every evidence available to us, including those 50s yes, because no other Pakistani batsman seemed to have a clue, barring Fakhar. Let's rather talk about what Malik has done recently, including the NZ tour, to justify his continued selection in the ODI set up?
 
coy0607 said:
based on what? a couple of 50's in NZ?
Click to expand...

Based on the fact I have watched him for a long time and know what he is capable of. He has a lot of time when he bats and loves pace on the ball.

Also, why are you diminishing his 50s in NZ? Did you see what the rest of the batting did in that tour? He played Lockie Ferguson with ease.
 
Malik marwaye ga world cup mai. Cant play simple pace, was failure in CT and Nz recently but he is now our vice captain till world cup on insistence of Mickey :/
 
I see the Pro Haris brigade are out in force again. Lets do a test, (by the way I detest Malik as a player, so lets not do any kiddie comparisons) let see how long it takes Haris to hit an ODI century. No excuses. Lets see how long he takes. And when he finally hits a century one of you can bring this post up and i'll acknowledge that the boy has finally got past his hoodoo. Until that moment he is a "footnote".
 
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How Imam is playing ahead of Haris i'll never know...
 
Get Haris in for Imam. Babar should be opening, he practically opens more often than not in any case.
 
SarfiBabarHaris said:
Based on his whole career. half decent pace bowling and Pak batsmen struggling. I blame Mickey for his omission when he scored 2 fifties in last 2 matches..
Click to expand...

Spot on.

As Chief Destroyer mentioned earlier in this thread, Mickey had previously said Haris' place was set in ODIs. So, what happened?
 
Mickey Arthur on Asif Ali:

"In terms of Asif Ali, he called the run quickly but I think Shoaib was at fault, I think there was a bit of lazy running on the back end there by Shoaib, he didn't think the ball was coming to his end. I don't think it was Asif Ali's fault, I think Asif Ali will score runs for us and I'm comfortable that he's going to be a very good player"

Read all comments here -> http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...that-can-stand-up-to-India-quot-Mickey-Arthur
 
The witchunt against Asif Ali is lame. He's a young batsman and is the only brutal hitter in this team. Just got out playing a dumb shot to a lalloo bowler yesterday. Will learn.

Imam is the one we need to ship out ASAP, since he hasn't shown potential to do much at all against half decent sides.
 
So Haris finally gets a game (Faheem dropped for tactical reasons).

He is listed at seven but that must be wrong. Babar and Haris have to bat the majority of overs- ie at three and four.
 
Both of them find a place in the team today.
 
the Great Khan said:
I see the Pro Haris brigade are out in force again. Lets do a test, (by the way I detest Malik as a player, so lets not do any kiddie comparisons) let see how long it takes Haris to hit an ODI century. No excuses. Lets see how long he takes. And when he finally hits a century one of you can bring this post up and i'll acknowledge that the boy has finally got past his hoodoo. Until that moment he is a "footnote".
Click to expand...

:)
 
This is still a relevant question, and actually a pretty pressing issue ahead of the World Cup.

First hurdle is getting selected in the squad (especially for Asif).
 
It was poor bowling that let Pakistan down against Australia. Pakistan bowlers looked helpless against Aussies. It is bowling that needs to get better.
Asif Ali is not even under consideration, He is Barely able to hold a T20 spot, in Odi he is worse than Afridi (who was a decent Bowler also). The only Variable is Hafeez's fitness, if Hafeez is Unfit than Harris Sohail will play at # 4. If Hafeez is playing than we have to look at form. Same 11 is not going to play all the matches Having a Replacement batsman or 2 are needed for a long tournament like the World Cup
 
asif ali can't even perform in domestic cricket against pakistani bowlers.


yet will find a way to perform at the world cup against quality bowlers
 
I have a feeling that fitness tests may have a bearing on this choice. Asif Ali seems to be there and thereabouts but is he enough to play for Pakistan in the World Cup?
 
Given his recent form , haris must play.

Pakistan need to have a left right combination in opening position though , fakhar is probably our best chance to give us a good run rate start. Babar azams game is well suited for opening position , he is a total liability in the last 15 overs with his inability to hit big sixers.

In my opinion fakhar and babar should open the innings , followed by haris , hafeez and sarfraz. Number 6 can either be khushdil , asif or umar akmal( whoever is selected)

The lineup can not afford malik anymore.
 
mak36 said:
This is still a relevant question, and actually a pretty pressing issue ahead of the World Cup.

First hurdle is getting selected in the squad (especially for Asif).
Click to expand...

How things change for the better :).

This has gone from an abstract problem on PP to a genuine headache for management. Nice problem to have though- shows they are thinking along the right lines (finally).

Hoping there will be a few anxious "seniors" in the squad.
 
Chokli said:
asif ali can't even perform in domestic cricket against pakistani bowlers.


yet will find a way to perform at the world cup against quality bowlers
Click to expand...

He got a chance yesterday but didn't make the most of it.
 
Imam is here to stay Im afraid...
Fakhar
Babar
Haris?...Hafeez.
sarfaraz
asif
and the rest...

I would only change Haris for Hafeez because of the latters bowling.
These days you need 6 proper bowlers..
not just the odd part timer.
Haris doesnt bowl enough to push Hafeez out.
 
Its simple really. You need to get rid of Imam and play Babar as opener. Harris, Sarfraz, Hafeez and Asif Ali coming in next. Play your best batsmen in the top 3. Sarfraz is useless down the order so he should come in at 4. Hafeez and Asif can provide that acceleration needed later on.
 
Suddenly it looks as though it's Haris that's missing out :(.
 
It might be between Malik and Haris for a spot now. Hafeez's bowling makes him a confirmed selection.

A lot depends on Malik's innings today I'd say, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him get the nod over Haris even if he fails today.
 
Would be disastrous to not play Haris at the expense of Hafeez or Malik . .
He always gives a bbreak from right handers in the middle order . .

Can't fit both Asif and Haris and Hafeez in the same team . . I am not convinced Asif can be trusted if he comes in at 130/4 . .

Imam
Fakhar
Babar
Haris
Sarfaraz
Hafeez
Imad
SHadab
Hasan
Amir
Shaheen
 
Seems one or the other at the moment. Heaven's forbid one of the seniors is dropped.
 
Shoaib Malik ahead of Haris Sohail both as batsman and bowler is a terrible choice.


Seniority rubbish.
 
Simple, drop Haris, he is a useless batsman, the first batsman to duck under four consecutive bouncers in an ODI.
 
I would open with Haris instead of Imam. I just feel like his strengths could be better utilised opening than at number 4. You look at openers in world cricket they're all good strokemakers and imam is the complete opposite.
 
Any chance Asif Ali can be accomodated in the playing 11?

I know its an outrageous move but our NRR sucks and at some stage it will become an issue. I am struggling to figure out who can he replace but we need that flexibility where his big hitting can be utilized.
 
ourr focus atm should be to just win forget about NRR also Asif Ali is no Morgan or Stokes just a hack stick wwith this team combo
 
Savak said:
I know its an outrageous move but our NRR sucks and at some stage it will become an issue. I am struggling to figure out who can he replace but we need that flexibility where his big hitting can be utilized.
Click to expand...

Ideally, Asif Ali shouldn't replace anyone because he looks mentally unfit right now due to the tragic event that happened with him. Also, he has been fairly inconsistent from the get go and always gets back into the playing XI due to failure of so called other superstars and not because of his own performances.

But if we want to include him, there are 2 ways of doing that:

We can't drop Fakhar, Imam, Babar, Haris, Sarfraz, Shadab, Amir, Wahab and Shaheen/Hasnain from the playing XI, that makes it 9 players.

1) We drop Mohammad Hafeez, bat Haris at 4, Sarfraz at 5 and Asif at 6, but this will make our batting lineup extremely volatile and risky, Sarfraz at 5 and Asif at 6 dosen't look good on current form and can prove to be a major blunder if top order fails.

2) Drop Imad Wasim, this looks possible as Imad isn't getting wickets anyway for a long time now and isn't good enough to be our 5th bowler. Play Asif at 7, utilise Haris Sohail's bowling and complete 10 overs from him and Mohammed Hafeez, but this too can be a risky move with Mohammed Hafeez not in the best of forms with the ball.

It's better to keep the same team, Asif Ali only disrupts our combination and dosen't always prove his worth. Atleast, we have 6 bowlers now with Haris Sohail as 7th and a solid batting lineup, with Haris Sohail, Mohammad Hafeez, Imad Wasim and Wahab Riaz as finishers.
 
I know it is a typical Pakistani management mentality, they don't touch the winning side, but still I hope they drop Hafeez for Asif, as it would balance the team, as we need a power hitter. I know Asif Ali is hit and miss kind of player, but still is more reliable when it comes to power hitting compared to Hafeez. Hafeez is useless with the ball as well. We don't have a power hitter in the lower order. Fakhar and Haris can bowl few overs if required.
 
Hafeez innings was important against England, secondly, his bowling will be useful to get wickets of NZ lefties.
 
I don't feel like we need Asif. Crap fielder, inconsistent batsman.
 
This has become a pertinent question yet again. I would really like Asif Ali to get 5-10 games consistently in the side but who should be dropped? Imad can strike the ball and his overs are useful, Shadab is a no brainer but there is the Hafeez question. His bowling has not been as good and his batting, although two good innings, is not for the future.

Possible -

Imam
Fakhar
Babar
Haris
Sarfraz
Asif

??
 
They need to drop Imam and open with Babar (good utilizer of powerplay), Asif Ali comes in as a late order power hitter. Drop Imad Wasim for Hassan Ali (Hassan Ali can hit the 20-30 runs we expect from Imad). Possibly try Hasnain in place of Shaheen.

Babar
Fakhar
Haris
Sarfraz
Hafeez
Asif Ali
Shadab
Hassan Ali
Wahab Riaz
M Amir
M Hasnain
 
HGhazanfar said:
They need to drop Imam and open with Babar (good utilizer of powerplay), Asif Ali comes in as a late order power hitter. Drop Imad Wasim for Hassan Ali (Hassan Ali can hit the 20-30 runs we expect from Imad). Possibly try Hasnain in place of Shaheen.

Babar
Fakhar
Haris
Sarfraz
Hafeez
Asif Ali
Shadab
Hassan Ali
Wahab Riaz
M Amir
M Hasnain
Click to expand...
Asif Ali is useless.

Your line up is incredibly weak

See that's the problem you're weakening the batting and expecting Hasan Ali, whose primary job is to bowl, to pitch in with extra 20/30 runs.

It's not going to happen.

Hasan Ali's batting is equivalent to Umar Gul's back in the day.
 
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Savak said:
I know its an outrageous move but our NRR sucks and at some stage it will become an issue. I am struggling to figure out who can he replace but we need that flexibility where his big hitting can be utilized.
Click to expand...

You're already assuming Asif Ali will make a major difference, on what basis are you assuming that?

Has Asif Ali done anything noteworthy to have those expectations on him? He's a T20 specialist who shouldn't be anywhere near an ODI side.
 
Chokli said:
Asif Ali is useless.

Your line up is incredibly weak

See that's the problem you're weakening the batting and expecting Hasan Ali, whose primary job is to bowl, to pitch in with extra 20/30 runs.

It's not going to happen.

Hasan Ali's batting is equivalent to Umar Gul's back in the day.
Click to expand...

What are you on about

Hassan Ali has been Pakistan’s best pinch hitter recently
 
chacha kashmiri said:
What are you on about

Hassan Ali has been Pakistan’s best pinch hitter recently
Click to expand...

Doesn't matter what he is recently, anything with the bat from him should be a bonus.

His primary job is to bowl well which he hasn't been doing.
 
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