How would Shoaib Akhtar have fared against teams if he came around in the 80s and early 90s?

[Savak]

I wanted to post this hypothetical question and please entertain this discussion, debate with honesty rather than blind hatred.

Would Akhtar's stats have been further boosted if he came around in an era where reverse swing was not well known, where batsmen were not used to fast reverse swinging yorkers on their toes, where there wasn't a lot of excessive cricket being played and where scoring rates were slower.

Given he achieved 178 test wickets, 247 ODI wickets and 19 T-20 wickets playing from 1997 to 2011. Can we bump all these numbers up if lets say he came around 1988 and operated at his absolute prime from 1988 to 1996 playing against the likes of the then Indian, Australian, West Indies, New Zealand, Zimbabwe, Sri Lankan team of that time?

 

[Pakistanian]

yeah with no helmets, I think he would have killed a lot of batsmen

 

[ElRaja]

he would averaged a bit lower cos tails back in the 80s were very weak, they started getting strong during his era.

his pace would mean hed clean up tails for fun like waqar and wasim used to.

also he would have likely have stayed fitter longer with the lack of "supplements" available, he put on a lot of weight and that slowly killed his pace.

 

[Savak]

he would averaged a bit lower cos tails back in the 80s were very weak, they started getting strong during his era.

his pace would mean hed clean up tails for fun like waqar and wasim used to.

also he would have likely have stayed fitter longer with the lack of "supplements" available, he put on a lot of weight and that slowly killed his pace.

His injuries are not due to the supplements, he had to be muscle bound to guard his joints. His knee problems would have been the same. His workload tho would have been better managed due to not as much cricket

 

[ElRaja]

His injuries are not due to the supplements, he had to be muscle bound to guard his joints. His knee problems would have been the same. His workload tho would have been better managed due to not as much cricket

dude was on all sorts, he put on significant mass on his upper body, both muscle and fat, if anything the additional weight, especially around the belly, would have exacerbated his knee issues. whilst i dont know the exact details of what all he took, im pretty sure it had a significant effect on the change in his physical stature, he was extremely athletic and lithe up till about 25, 26.

players back in the day played a lot of club/county cricket too. even jeff thomson played 190 first class games in 13 years.

 

[Savak]

dude was on all sorts, he put on significant mass on his upper body, both muscle and fat, if anything the additional weight, especially around the belly, would have exacerbated his knee issues. whilst i dont know the exact details of what all he took, im pretty sure it had a significant effect on the change in his physical stature, he was extremely athletic and lithe up till about 25, 26.

players back in the day played a lot of club/county cricket too. even jeff thomson played 190 first class games in 13 years.

He had hyper extension in his elbows, joints and knees. He had to develop insane muscular knees to develop maximum muscles there to soften the blow of his the knee cap creating fluid. He was having fluids removed from his knees daily and having daily pain killing injections. Just imagine how difficult it is to run when your knee caps are colliding with each other and releasing fluid in the knee. It is no wonder he put on fat as he got older because it is very tough to run and do a lot of cardio with that kind of pain in your knee. All the Pakistani players who played with him have confirmed this. He played like this for 14 years.

One option for him back then was to have knee replacement surgeries which he has done now in retirement but back then it was not done very frequently and he must have had fears that it would have been curtains for his career. Just look at him now running and sprinting now that he has gotten the knee transplants in both his knees.

His knee issues are exactly the same thing which Ryan Harris had and you can see how long his career lasted and mind you Cricket Australia did everything they could to manage his workload, provide him access to the best medical care but there was only so much they could do to extend his career

 

[Mueez]

He would be better than Waqar, that I know for sure...

 

[FreePalestine]

dude was on all sorts, he put on significant mass on his upper body, both muscle and fat, if anything the additional weight, especially around the belly, would have exacerbated his knee issues. whilst i dont know the exact details of what all he took, im pretty sure it had a significant effect on the change in his physical stature, he was extremely athletic and lithe up till about 25, 26.

players back in the day played a lot of club/county cricket too. even jeff thomson played 190 first class games in 13 years.

Sounds plausible. However, I think Akhtar was known for having weird training routines. So maybe his own particular methods led to his unathletic muscular frame in the second half of his career?

As for the fatness thing at the very end of his career, assume you are thinking of 2011 wc, that was due to him not playing international cricket for a long while due to problems with the PCB. He was recalled for that wc because of loss of Amir and Asif.

Having said that, there was the whole nandrolene issue, so he definitely took some banned substances at some point in his career.

 

[ElRaja]

He had hyper extension in his elbows, joints and knees. He had to develop insane muscular knees to develop maximum muscles there to soften the blow of his the knee cap creating fluid. He was having fluids removed from his knees daily and having daily pain killing injections. Just imagine how difficult it is to run when your knee caps are colliding with each other and releasing fluid in the knee. It is no wonder he put on fat as he got older because it is very tough to run and do a lot of cardio with that kind of pain in your knee. All the Pakistani players who played with him have confirmed this. He played like this for 14 years.

One option for him back then was to have knee replacement surgeries which he has done now in retirement but back then it was not done very frequently and he must have had fears that it would have been curtains for his career. Just look at him now running and sprinting now that he has gotten the knee transplants in both his knees.

His knee issues are exactly the same thing which Ryan Harris had and you can see how long his career lasted and mind you Cricket Australia did everything they could to manage his workload, provide him access to the best medical care but there was only so much they could do to extend his career

im not disagree with you on this, im simply stating as an ignorant observer speculating, the kinda of stuff he may have been on, for whatever reason, as a side effect can result in depositing excessive fat in the gut region, which could not have been good for his knees or athleticism in general.

the counter to that would i guess be that had he not had access to those drugs his career may have ended much sooner.

 

[jeetu]

Elite player would have been fine aganst Akhtar after initial shock. However he would have been nightmare against Lower skilled batsman. Richards vs Akhtar would be great battle.

 

[Junaids]

If you restrict it to 1988-96, Shoaib Akhtar would only have got into the Pakistan team between 1988 and 1990.

For the period 1990-96 clearly the slot for an Express right-arm inswing bowler who couldn’t bat would have gone to Waqar Younis.

But anyway, if the premise is that batsmen weren’t used to reverse, doesn’t Waqar’s track record show what Shoaib could have achieved if he was fitter, lighter and trained harder?

 

[Savak]

If you restrict it to 1988-96, Shoaib Akhtar would only have got into the Pakistan team between 1988 and 1990.

For the period 1990-96 clearly the slot for an Express right-arm inswing bowler who couldn’t bat would have gone to Waqar Younis.

But anyway, if the premise is that batsmen weren’t used to reverse, doesn’t Waqar’s track record show what Shoaib could have achieved if he was fitter, lighter and trained harder?

There was room for a third seamer in the team. Shoaib would easily have taken Aqib's place or Atta ur Rehman's place. I think Shoaib was even faster than Waqar especially with his back of a length, short pitched deliveries and could get consistent bounce from a good length.

Its funny because Shoaib says that he should have actually played for Pakistan from 1994 onwards because that is when his knees were fresh and without any wear and tear, he should not have been made to toil in domestic cricket from 1994 to 1997 because the sheer amount of overs he had to bowl took a toll on his knees and by the time he debuted his knee problems were beginning to flair up.

 

[Junaids]

There was room for a third seamer in the team. Shoaib would easily have taken Aqib's place or Atta ur Rehman's place. I think Shoaib was even faster than Waqar especially with his back of a length, short pitched deliveries and could get consistent bounce from a good length.

Its funny because Shoaib says that he should have actually played for Pakistan from 1994 onwards because that is when his knees were fresh and without any wear and tear, he should not have been made to toil in domestic cricket from 1994 to 1997 because the sheer amount of overs he had to bowl took a toll on his knees and by the time he debuted his knee problems were beginning to flair up.

I think Pakistan struggled a little after Imran’s retirement by playing too many Number 11’s.

To this day, I think they should have persisted with the Brisbane 1999 model of Abdul Razzaq at 6, Azhar Mahmood at 8, Wasim Akram at 9 plus two specialist bowlers.

Pakistan started to lose far too many Tests after 99-00, and in my opinion a long tail was a large part of the reason.

From 99 onwards I would have had my team in SENA as:

6. Abdul Razzaq
7. Azhar Mahmood
8. Rashid Latif
9. Shahid Afridi
10. Wasim Akram, then Mohammad Asif
11. Shoaib Akhtar

I think that team would only have struggled against Australia: they would have beaten everyone else.

 

[Savak]

I think Pakistan struggled a little after Imran’s retirement by playing too many Number 11’s.

To this day, I think they should have persisted with the Brisbane 1999 model of Abdul Razzaq at 6, Azhar Mahmood at 8, Wasim Akram at 9 plus two specialist bowlers.

Pakistan started to lose far too many Tests after 99-00, and in my opinion a long tail was a large part of the reason.

From 99 onwards I would have had my team in SENA as:

6. Abdul Razzaq
7. Azhar Mahmood
8. Rashid Latif
9. Shahid Afridi
10. Wasim Akram, then Mohammad Asif
11. Shoaib Akhtar

I think that team would only have struggled against Australia: they would have beaten everyone else.

The likes of Razzaq and Mahmood have to be reliable test bowlers i.e. they could either do a holding job bowling guaranteed 20-30 overs of tight economical bowling or picking up wickets as well. There is no point in picking an all rounder for his batting if his bowling isn't up to the mark.

 

[tyron_woodley]

would have been good but I can see him struggle with the modern rules a tad. He can adapt though. Pakistan aren't a good fielding side so that works against him.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Under Imran Khan he would have been more disciplined and played more matches for Pakistan.