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Huddersfield man shot dead by police in 'pre-planned operation' near M62 motorway

Gabbar Singh

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Looks like we have another Mark Duggan type incident. The victim allegedly had a gun, was a known drug dealer and had previously been in court on attempted murder charges.

A man has been shot dead by police during a “pre-planned operation” in West Yorkshire in which a total of five people were arrested.

The fatal incident occurred near the M62 motorway in Huddersfield at around 6pm on Monday, West Yorkshire Police said.

Three people were arrested at the scene of the shooting and another two people were arrested in a related incident in Bradford, police confirmed this morning.

The Independent Police Complaints Commission has been informed as a matter of course, and the force says it is “fully co-operating” with the watchdog's investigation.

A police spokesman said: “Around 6pm this evening (Monday January 2), during a pre-planned policing operation near to the M62 in Huddersfield a police firearm was discharged and a man has died.

”An immediate referral has been made to the Independent Police Complaints Commission who are in attendance in West Yorkshire and West Yorkshire Police are fully co-operating with their investigation.“

The other people arrested required hospital treatment for injuries "not related to firearm discharge", the police spokesman added.

The car is understood to have been driving when it was stopped by at least one unmarked police car.

Photographs of the scene appear to show three bullet holes visible through the smashed front windscreen of the white Audi.

West Yorkshire police would at first only confirm that “an incident” was ongoing and motorists driving past the scene believed there had been an accident.

Gemma Wilson, a local Conservative councillor, told Sky News: ”I assumed at first it was a crash but realised if it was, it was a major one due to the volume of police in the area and the wide area that was cordoned off.

“It was obviously concerning to see so many police cars as clearly something serious had happened so close to home.”

Five hours after their initial tweet about an “incident”, the force issued its statement saying a man had died after being shot.

The dead man’s identity has not yet been released but his family has been informed, according to the IPCC.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ion-west-yorkshire-huddersfield-a7506611.html
 
Father, 28, was shot dead through his windscreen by police marksmen who had stopped a convoy of expensive cars on M62 sliproad to search for an illegal gun
Family and friends say Yasser Yaqub, 28, who has a daughter, was gunned down
Shooting took place at junction 24 of the motorway near Huddersfield at 6pm
Up to six police vehicles penned in Mercedes, a Jaguar, a VW and Audi sportscar
Three bullet holes left in the windscreen of a white Audi where Yasser died
Three arrests on M62 - two more people held after car was stopped in Bradford
Police say vehicles were pulled over because they were hunting for a firearm
Mr Yaqub accused of drug dealing and put on trial in 2010 for attempted murder


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-M62-pre-planned-operation.html#ixzz4UiDsKPlc
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


3BCDF6C700000578-4082864-image-a-25_1483440448962.jpg
 
Did he attempt to shoot the police officers or did they just round him up and sprayed on him?
 
Did he attempt to shoot the police officers or did they just round him up and sprayed on him?

According to the article in the OP it was pre-planned so I assume they went in with a good idea they were going to be shooting to kill. No doubt the police version of the story will justify it though, but it seems unlikely that any sane person would attempt to get in a firefight with armed police.
 
As they say

live by the sword
Die by the sword

Apparently there was weapon in the car
He probably didn't get out straight away or was seen fiddling around with something so they shot him
 
His house is literally plastered with CCTV cameras. Was obviously drug related.
 
I see there was a demo last night about the shooting, you never see demos from people when innocent people are shot, or kids offered drugs outside school but shoot a drug dealer and all hell breaks lose.
 
I was expecting similar replies to some of the above, live by the sword, drug dealer, nasty man got what was coming etc. All true enough more than likely but missing the point somewhat.

The real question should be on how we expect our policing to be done, and should there be no questions raised if they are dealing with a suspected criminal? Should police be allowed to shoot all drug dealers in their cars?
 
Duterte has received similar apprehension in the Philippines.

It sets a dangerous precedent.
 
I was expecting similar replies to some of the above, live by the sword, drug dealer, nasty man got what was coming etc. All true enough more than likely but missing the point somewhat.

The real question should be on how we expect our policing to be done, and should there be no questions raised if they are dealing with a suspected criminal? Should police be allowed to shoot all drug dealers in their cars?

spot on, some of the low level reactionary 'debate' on here is a disgrace
 
I was expecting similar replies to some of the above, live by the sword, drug dealer, nasty man got what was coming etc. All true enough more than likely but missing the point somewhat.

The real question should be on how we expect our policing to be done, and should there be no questions raised if they are dealing with a suspected criminal? Should police be allowed to shoot all drug dealers in their cars?

The law must be respected and those who sin must be given a fair trial. I don't agree with this an eye for an eye justice because not everything is black and white, plus the police would not be above vigilantism.
 
If some backwards people with old attitudes want to live in a violent free for all they can move to Pakistan or the US

In Britain we believe in the Rule of Law and even potential 'Terrorists' get the protection of the law.

The extreme right wing Government of Thatcher in the 1980s got it in the neck for their 'shoot to kill' policy against IRA

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/events/three_ira_members_shot_dead_in_gibraltar

If you have 'intelligence' and it's a pre-planned operation if you have to shoot someone then your planning or execution was sadly lacking and you should be sacked for gross misconduct and on trial for murder.
 
However, even our system is corrupted and damaged to an extent or else the murderers of Jahan, Ali and Musavir during the 2011 riots would be behind bars but the judges who charged the 8 men who were arrested with 3 counts of murder acquitted the killers on all charges :/
 
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No doubt about that. The Rule of Law is great for entrenched power systems and networks which is why it is so incredible when they flout it. It's already rigged in their favour!
 
Yasir Yaqoub dies of British Police firing in Bradford; Pakistani Community retaliates with protests

[UTUBE]QWpO5FtZYrQ[/UTUBE]


Hope things settle soon.
 
The police are lucky he wasn't one of those popular "Daddy didn't love him enough" types or there would be hell to pay.

Teresa May would of got involved just like Cameron did about "British Society has failed them"
 
I was expecting similar replies to some of the above, live by the sword, drug dealer, nasty man got what was coming etc. All true enough more than likely but missing the point somewhat.

The real question should be on how we expect our policing to be done, and should there be no questions raised if they are dealing with a suspected criminal? Should police be allowed to shoot all drug dealers in their cars?

Very few British Police Officers carry guns. I cannot think of another country where that is true.

Every time a Police Officer shoots someone, the matter is referred to the IPCC who check to see if a proper assessment of the risk to the public and the Officers was carried out and if procedure was followed with regard to command and control and identifying the suspect. Obviously things went horribly wrong in the case of Mr DeMeneses in Stockwell and investigation of such will inform the Police with continuous improvement of their procedures.
 
Many, many questions need answering. By the police as well as by the family and friends of the deceased.

If it was a pre-planned operation, what went wrong?

The guy lived in a modest £130,000 home surrounded by security cameras, and yet owned/drove expensive sports cars, including one that was worth twice the value of his house.

A previous case against him of attempted murder had been thrown out by the judge, and he had also suffered gunshot wounds resulting from a failed assassination attempt against his life on another occasion.

Surely the family and friends, including the father, would have been aware of all that?

One things for sure. Neither the police nor his family & friends are going to come out of this smelling like roses.
 
If he was White and posh he'd be a FTSE CEO obviously an entrepreneurial guy
 
Very few British Police Officers carry guns. I cannot think of another country where that is true.

Every time a Police Officer shoots someone, the matter is referred to the IPCC who check to see if a proper assessment of the risk to the public and the Officers was carried out and if procedure was followed with regard to command and control and identifying the suspect. Obviously things went horribly wrong in the case of Mr DeMeneses in Stockwell and investigation of such will inform the Police with continuous improvement of their procedures.

There was plenty of opportunity to convict someone murdering DeMeneses.

This tragic event seems worse compared to Mark Duggen. All pre-planned operations involving guns should be filmed. Again we may never know the truth.
 
On a recent to visit to Birmingham, i spoke to a taxi driver and he was despondent at the way the PK community had taken over the drugs trade from the Afro-Caribbean Community. He felt that the haraam earnings were condoned and encouraged by families, he gave one example of a family in Lozells losing 2 sons, who were heavily involved in the drugs trade, and at the same time the father was pretending to be all religious.
 
On a recent to visit to Birmingham, i spoke to a taxi driver and he was despondent at the way the PK community had taken over the drugs trade from the Afro-Caribbean Community. He felt that the haraam earnings were condoned and encouraged by families, he gave one example of a family in Lozells losing 2 sons, who were heavily involved in the drugs trade, and at the same time the father was pretending to be all religious
As in this case?
 
I was expecting similar replies to some of the above, live by the sword, drug dealer, nasty man got what was coming etc. All true enough more than likely but missing the point somewhat.

The real question should be on how we expect our policing to be done, and should there be no questions raised if they are dealing with a suspected criminal? Should police be allowed to shoot all drug dealers in their cars?

You're casually omitting the fact he had a firearm on him.

Is there Any proof he didn't shoot first?
 
You're casually omitting the fact he had a firearm on him.

Is there Any proof he didn't shoot first?

He was suspected of having a firearm on him, that may well be the case for many drug dealers up and down the country, especially so if they have already been the target of drive by shootings.

I have no more idea about whether he shot first than you do, there have been no details released one way or the other, although I did say that he would have to be insane to open fire on armed police cars. In any case, he was a drug dealer so you would imagine whatever the police now release as their version of events will be accepted as the truth.
 
On a recent to visit to Birmingham, i spoke to a taxi driver and he was despondent at the way the PK community had taken over the drugs trade from the Afro-Caribbean Community. He felt that the haraam earnings were condoned and encouraged by families, he gave one example of a family in Lozells losing 2 sons, who were heavily involved in the drugs trade, and at the same time the father was pretending to be all religious.

The PK community isn't any different to any other when it comes to drugs. You will find people of all ethnic backgrounds involved in it, especially those who want a fast ticket to the good life. You'll also find their friends and families will start finding ways to justify it regardless of their religious faith or pious appearance.

The petty drug barons are white where I live, and you can always tell when one of them has died because their funeral is always massively attended by hundreds of groupies and idol worshippers.
 
Come to birmingham especially aston and youll see loads of flashy cars being driven yet they live in houses worth 100k and claim for JSA something doesn't add up....
 
Bradford is infested by crime, drugs and gangs. Not a good place to live as far as I know!
 
Regarding the last two posts - yes there are drugs in Bradford and Birmingham without a doubt. Can I ask you guys if you think that other cities in the UK are relatively drug free, or are you of the opinion that only cities with Pakistani community are capable of providing this valued service?
 
Pakistanis all around the world need a serious reality check, we are clearly losing the plot here! As mentioned by some posters above, why have our fellow countrymen started to indulge in so many illegal activities for the sake of making quick cash? I was speaking to some 17-18 year old boys and they had no intention whatsoever to study or go to University because they were more concerned about earning quick money to afford flashy BMW's and Audis. So many of the elder members of the community are involved in multiple scams with the government and bank, trying their best to claim false benefits and earning tax free cash. The sad part about it is the looking down upon those members of the community who are struggling to make a decent living through respectable means. Its becoming a growing phenomena that our community wants to value those who have the material gains and thats exactly why the younger generation is moving fast towards any quick way to make a lot of money without serious effort.

We all need a serious evaluation of our lives, at this rate we are all heading to nothing
 
He chose a life of crime but does that justify the police in effect executing him ?

I don't think the killing is justified personally. It should only be an absolute last resort and I don't think it was.

However some of the Pakistani community (esp North like Bradford) need to ask serious questions why the youth are turning to be street gangsters and looking for the fast easy life which is nothing but a cancer.
 
He chose a life of crime but does that justify the police in effect executing him ?

I don't think the killing is justified personally. It should only be an absolute last resort and I don't think it was.

However some of the Pakistani community (esp North like Bradford) need to ask serious questions why the youth are turning to be street gangsters and looking for the fast easy life which is nothing but a cancer.

I take it you haven't been to Ilford if so ask your self why despite having access to all the best jobs the best schools etc some of the Pakistani youth are turning to be street gangsters and looking for the fast easy life which is nothing but a cancer.

As for Watford remember the "Khan line" or shall I remind you?
 
I take it you haven't been to Ilford if so ask your self why despite having access to all the best jobs the best schools etc some of the Pakistani youth are turning to be street gangsters and looking for the fast easy life which is nothing but a cancer.

As for Watford remember the "Khan line" or shall I remind you?

You don't need to remind me anything sunshine but I ask why do you get offended so easily when I state that some Pakistanis up north have been nothing but a stain to their communities ?? They chose to be drug dealers and gangsters when they could had a better life if they used their brains elsewhere.

Yes I know the Khan line but as it's the few exceptions, gangster wannabes and drug dealers are very few but sorry to say nothing like some of the holes up north. Luton is another example.

I'm glad to be in Watford but doesn't mean it's perfect and the mentality of these youth need to change wherever they are. I hope you get the point.
 
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You don't need to remind me anything sunshine but I ask why do you get offended so easily when I state that some Pakistanis up north have been nothing but a stain to their communities ?? They chose to be drug dealers and gangsters when they could had a better life if they used their brains elsewhere.

Yes I know the Khan line but as it's the few exceptions, gangster wannabes and drug dealers are very few but sorry to say nothing like some of the holes up north. Luton is another example.

I'm glad to be in Watford but doesn't mean it's perfect and the mentality of these youth need to change wherever they are. I hope you get the point.

Probably because you act like its unique to Up North in Places like Bradford when underclass housing benefit recipients in super affluent areas like Ilford are probably just as bad if not worse considering the population of Pakistanis is much much much less and even then a lot of them are fraudulent asylum seekers and studentswhom will get deported. Just like the £1 fish man was lol.

As for Watford theres probably more Pakistanis in the super affluent outskirts of Bradford in Places such as Ilkley wilsdon thornton etc then there is there lol hardley a like for like comparison.

As for holes you should check what is known as the poverty capital of England where most non white British live in low income households and are on housing benefits.
 
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The police do have a lot to answer for here...it's been rightly mentioned that this was a pre-planned operation yet there were no cameras present...

This has left a situation where all one can do is speculate...the police killing an armed man can be justified but it is unclear whether that was the case here...and it's unlikely that the truth will come out...

It's quite clear that Yaqub was a nasty piece of work but that alone isn't a justification for him to be shot...
 
Probably because you act like its unique to Up North in Places like Bradford when underclass housing benefit recipients in super affluent areas like Ilford are probably just as bad if not worse considering the population of Pakistanis is much much much less and even then a lot of them are fraudulent asylum seekers and studentswhom will get deported. Just like the £1 fish man was lol.

As for Watford theres probably more Pakistanis in the super affluent outskirts of Bradford in Places such as Ilkley wilsdon thornton etc then there is there lol hardley a like for like comparison.

As for holes you should check what is known as the poverty capital of England where most non white British live in low income households and are on housing benefits.

I'm so sorry for offending the pearls of England - Bradford, Leeds and Sheffield.

I never knew they were such beacons of hope for the Pakistani community and how "affluent" it is compared to poverty stricken watford and London.

I will in future considering moving there, maybe even trek for a mini holiday as I have to see the prosperity the people are enjoying in the north.

Please I beg you not to reveal anymore gold secrets because I may just pack my bags tonight and move straight away.
 
I'm so sorry for offending the pearls of England - Bradford, Leeds and Sheffield.

I never knew they were such beacons of hope for the Pakistani community and how "affluent" it is compared to poverty stricken watford and London.

I will in future considering moving there, maybe even trek for a mini holiday as I have to see the prosperity the people are enjoying in the north.

Please I beg you not to reveal anymore gold secrets because I may just pack my bags tonight and move straight away.

Here you go

London is still England's poverty capital

http://www.londonspovertyprofile.org.uk/news/london-is-still-englands-pover/

ch7.6.jpg

lowpay.jpg

About 70% of people in Inner London in low income are from backgrounds other than White British.
About 50% of people living in low income in Outer London are from backgrounds other than White British.
The equivalent figure for the rest of England is around 10%

50% of housing benefit claimants live in Outer London and 40% are in work. - See more at: http://www.npi.org.uk/blog/income-a...verty-patterns/#sthash.yNvjJNt6.MB8XpkVO.dpuf
 
Mum crying on TV, which was expected but neither parents admitting the truth of why he was shot. Did they ever condemn his haraam earnings?
 
The Midlands and North of England has huge problems in terms of our people doing illegal activities.
 
In addition: Nobody had a right to kill this person. It doesn't seem like they did it as a last resort which is unacceptable.
 
Mum crying on TV, which was expected but neither parents admitting the truth of why he was shot. Did they ever condemn his haraam earnings?

why would they need to condemn him ? there are keyboard warriors who don't know him from Adam happy to act as judge jury and executioner without being in possession of the facts
 
Mum crying on TV, which was expected but neither parents admitting the truth of why he was shot. Did they ever condemn his haraam earnings?

So because parents don't condemn their children (which are grown men) they deserve to be shot dead by the police? The issue here is were the police right to kill this man, not drug dealing in the Asian community.
 
The point still stands. Not a decent place to be.

Depends where you live Heaton Village a Pakistani area contains many many houses worth (if the daily mail is to be believed) more than the average price in places like Barking, Ilford, Newham Southall etc

Its also along with Ilkley Skipton Shipley etc etc a hotspot for White British people amongst others running away from places like Newham, Ilford, Southall etc where "Indiginous Christians" Are fast becoming an endagered species.

Now the Inner City areas such as BD3 etc Little Horton West Bowling etc are quite rough but these areas along with many others multiple houses are owned by Pakistani landlords whom have long moved in to more affluent areas such as Heaton, Frizinghall, Shipley, Ilkley etc.

Then the Dodgy asylum seekers and fraudulant students from Pakistan along with Eastern Europeans are moving in.

Even then these said areas are no more rougher than places that I have personally visited such as Cheetham Hill in "Gunchester" As the local Pakistani's call it

Pollack Shields where at my last visit most didnt even own houses even though houses are cheap. Ilford, Green St, SouthHall etc etc
 
Also one must bare in mind when England was the richest City in the World Bradford was by far the richest City in the World and places like Heaton Village/ Frizinghall now mostly Pakistani areas where were the fuedals lived.

Super duper affluent areas like Ilford Barking Hounslow Southall werent even a part of London.
 
So because parents don't condemn their children (which are grown men) they deserve to be shot dead by the police? The issue here is were the police right to kill this man, not drug dealing in the Asian community.

I think that point seems to go right over most poster's head and that is perhaps because a lot of the contributors here are immigrants and perhaps expect police to shoot whoever they like criminal or not. In Pakistan that's probably the case, the average civilian probably has few rights once the police are involved.

For some reason they seem to think the only drug dealers in England are Pakistanis from Bradford or Birmingham, perhaps because they live there and haven't seen what goes on in the rest of England.
 
So because parents don't condemn their children (which are grown men) they deserve to be shot dead by the police? The issue here is were the police right to kill this man, not drug dealing in the Asian community.

Drug dealers are blight on the communities they live in, and i cant get worked up about the loss, i do agree that Police cannot act extra judiciously but as far as the parents are concerned, if they will not condemn their earnings, then why not stay quiet about their son, father today described him as 'brilliant' and 'the best anyone could hope for' and denied he was a criminal.
 
To put things into context about the British police and their use of guns...

In England and Wales in the 12 months to March 2016, British police discharged their firearms on just seven occasions, the statistics, released on Thursday show.

This figure is actually a record, of sorts. In the same period ending in March 2013, firearms were used only three times. In the 2015 period they were used six times. Seven uses of weapons is the highest since at least 2009.


https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.in...ings-homicide-a7160391.html?amp?client=safari


In the last 20 years the British police have fatally shot less than 50 people.

http://www.inquest.org.uk/statistics/fatal-police-shootings

And while mistakes are made (like the killing of Jean Charles de Menezes) it's comical to suggest the British police go out with the intention of assassinating people.
 
To put things into context about the British police and their use of guns...




https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.in...ings-homicide-a7160391.html?amp?client=safari


In the last 20 years the British police have fatally shot less than 50 people.

http://www.inquest.org.uk/statistics/fatal-police-shootings

And while mistakes are made (like the killing of Jean Charles de Menezes) it's comical to suggest the British police go out with the intention of assassinating people.

Well they did not shoot to kill Moat chap even though he shot them.
 
To put things into context about the British police and their use of guns...




https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.in...ings-homicide-a7160391.html?amp?client=safari


In the last 20 years the British police have fatally shot less than 50 people.

http://www.inquest.org.uk/statistics/fatal-police-shootings

And while mistakes are made (like the killing of Jean Charles de Menezes) it's comical to suggest the British police go out with the intention of assassinating people.

Stats don't really mean much in the context of this incident, all we can go on is what happened and in the OP which you posted, the police clearly went to intercept this fellow fully armed, in unmarked police cars and unloaded on said driver until he was dead.

If you have a theory on why this should have happened the way it did, please share.
 
To put things into context about the British police and their use of guns...




https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.in...ings-homicide-a7160391.html?amp?client=safari


In the last 20 years the British police have fatally shot less than 50 people.

http://www.inquest.org.uk/statistics/fatal-police-shootings

And while mistakes are made (like the killing of Jean Charles de Menezes) it's comical to suggest the British police go out with the intention of assassinating people.

No one has suggested the British police in general go out on killing people. They are not generally armed are they ??

However this operation was "pre planned" according to them so people are questioning what was the need to execute this chap rather than trying to apprehend him ?

It's a valid question so no need to muddy the waters.

In any case British police are still not trusted not because of shootings but endemic racism that's been well documented. I know personally how family members on how they been treated so they are no angels.
 
Personally I've always been surprised by the death sentence given to drug dealers in so many countries. They are obviously a great ill of the society, but a death penalty somehow appears to me too harsh a punishment for the crime.

But I don't quite get the outrage here. I think the police should definitely be held accountable if they opened fire on the guy unless they were retaliating. But when there's no clear information available, it's a case of which party you would trust more and most people would trust the British police in this case. I mean, it's not as if the guy was innocent person having a fire arm. He was a drug dealer and a murder accused (as stated in the OP). So it's not unbelievable to think that the guy might have opened fire first, unlike say if the guy had been just an innocent guy who happened to possess a fire arm. Secondly, we aren't talking about the American cops here who are known to be trigger happy. The British police is generally known to have one of the less gun discharge rates around the world.

Either way when there isn't any evidence available on the misuse of power by the cops, I guess you would have to go by the word of the British police.
 
If it was a pre planned execution, they should definitely be held accountable. But if it was a preplanned operation involving the arrest which led to a firefight and his subsequent death, then I don't think they should be held guilty. I think the British police should probably clarify on the issue to avoid it escalating into a race issue.
 
Personally I've always been surprised by the death sentence given to drug dealers in so many countries. They are obviously a great ill of the society, but a death penalty somehow appears to me too harsh a punishment for the crime.

But I don't quite get the outrage here. I think the police should definitely be held accountable if they opened fire on the guy unless they were retaliating. But when there's no clear information available, it's a case of which party you would trust more and most people would trust the British police in this case. I mean, it's not as if the guy was innocent person having a fire arm. He was a drug dealer and a murder accused (as stated in the OP). So it's not unbelievable to think that the guy might have opened fire first, unlike say if the guy had been just an innocent guy who happened to possess a fire arm. Secondly, we aren't talking about the American cops here who are known to be trigger happy. The British police is generally known to have one of the less gun discharge rates around the world.

Either way when there isn't any evidence available on the misuse of power by the cops, I guess you would have to go by the word of the British police.

The facts are already out that we know He didn't fire first. He had a gun and he was a drug dealer and no one is sympathising him with there.
But regarding shooting had he fired first this would have been reported or leaked to the media some time ago as the police want to get any justification they can get when an incident like this occurs. So we can dismiss the theory he shot any police.

Also the British police have had very questionable (Met police in particular)record especially towards minorities and after the well known Stephen Lawrence incident some 20 years ago an independent report said they were institutionally racist.
Some remforms have happened since with an independent complaints commission to keep a check on them but it will take a long time before they will be seen as at least fair.
 
The facts are already out that we know He didn't fire first. He had a gun and he was a drug dealer and no one is sympathising him with there.
But regarding shooting had he fired first this would have been reported or leaked to the media some time ago as the police want to get any justification they can get when an incident like this occurs. So we can dismiss the theory he shot any police.

Also the British police have had very questionable (Met police in particular)record especially towards minorities and after the well known Stephen Lawrence incident some 20 years ago an independent report said they were institutionally racist.
Some remforms have happened since with an independent complaints commission to keep a check on them but it will take a long time before they will be seen as at least fair.

As an outsider, I've always had the impression that the American police are far more trigger happy and institutionally racist unlike the British police who are less prone to firing on people and generally use tasers more. This is obviously just a rough impression I got from reading tabloids and don't really know about their past history with racial prejudices. My bad then.
 
As an outsider, I've always had the impression that the American police are far more trigger happy and institutionally racist unlike the British police who are less prone to firing on people and generally use tasers more. This is obviously just a rough impression I got from reading tabloids and don't really know about their past history with racial prejudices. My bad then.

The main different is the British police are not armed in general so there are obviously far less deaths and injuries.

Now that they have a watchdog hovering over them and some reforms happening attitudes are slowly changing the atmosphere but it will take a long time and incidents like this will only slow it further.
 
Stats don't really mean much in the context of this incident, all we can go on is what happened and in the OP which you posted, the police clearly went to intercept this fellow fully armed, in unmarked police cars and unloaded on said driver until he was dead.

If you have a theory on why this should have happened the way it did, please share.

I disagree with your argument and it seems very biased.

Any armed police officer follows the 'triple tap' when shooting a live target as per his/her training. Unlike in the movies where a single shot brings a person down this is not always the case and one is trained to take 3 shots at the largest surface area in order to neutralize an armed threat.

In this case YY was seated in the driver's seat and as per police intelligence one presumes is armed and dangerous. An armed police officer will not wait to find out what YY's next move is going to be and his job is to neutralize the threat. The threat is not just the gun but the fact that he is in control of a car as well.

The officer cannot see the lower half of the suspect's body, where the weapon is or read from his physical movement behind the steering wheel, to decide on an action. To neutralize him he follows the triple tap, three continuous shots at the largest visible part of his body. In this case a person seated on the drivers side the visible areas are the chest and then his head. Three shots were fired in a close grouping as is visible from the pictures above.

He did not unload his gun. Considering they are most likely to have used a Heckler & Koch G3 or MP5, which means the magazines have 15 to 30 rounds. Had they unloaded the gun that windscreen wouldn't be in place. It was a perfect 3 tap as per protocol.

The question is if this is justified. I live in the North East of Scotland and such cases are rarely reported here, irrespective of ethnicity. But as a law abiding individual I do not want a person driving around carrying an illegal firearm, especially if he has serious priors. I would expect the police to remove that threat by whatever means possible. It is their job to do so.

The outcome of such a situation is based on the actions of both parties involved, not just the police. The instigator here is clearly YY. He might not have fired the shot, which could be either he did not intend to or was unsuccessful in his attempt. YY could have avoided this fate, not have a criminal history for one, not carry a weapon, to stop when asked to or felt like he was followed, come out of the car, throw the weapon out when stopped etc..etc... We do not know the full story. The police officer's options were far more limited on the other hand. His life as well as that of his surrounding colleagues are at stake.

Like you I have no deep knowledge on the subject but it is sad to see a life lost irrespective of ethnicity.

There will never be perfection in enacting the law. There will always be mistakes made intentionally or otherwise. That said YY would have had far more opportunities in life to avoid being in that car at that time, than the cop who had to take a call at that moment.
 
If it was a pre planned execution, they should definitely be held accountable. But if it was a preplanned operation involving the arrest which led to a firefight and his subsequent death, then I don't think they should be held guilty. I think the British police should probably clarify on the issue to avoid it escalating into a race issue.
:facepalm:
I very much doubt it was 'an execution', preplanned or otherwise. Else if that was the case, it would have been done quietly and in such a way so as not to point the finger at the police, instead of on a motorway and within view of nearby houses.
 
:facepalm:
I very much doubt it was 'an execution', preplanned or otherwise. Else if that was the case, it would have been done quietly and in such a way so as not to point the finger at the police, instead of on a motorway and within view of nearby houses.

Without any doubt whatsoever the outcome of any investigation, there will be posters that say it is a cover up, sure as the sun comes up tomorrow.
 
In this case YY was seated in the driver's seat and as per police intelligence one presumes is armed and dangerous. An armed police officer will not wait to find out what YY's next move is going to be and his job is to neutralize the threat. The threat is not just the gun but the fact that he is in control of a car as well.
Have the police said that YY was the one driving/seated in drivers seat? Just asking.

Looking at the photos of YY's car, the police car blocking his car and the position/angles of the bullet holes, it would appear that YY was in the passenger seat when shot.

And if, as it being said, the gun was found in the footwell, then it's most likely it was in the footwell of the passenger side, meaning on YY's side. (A gun would have interfered with the pedals on the drivers side if it was on that side)

Taken all together, it's entirely feasible that he was shot whilst brandishing the gun, which fell out of his hands into the footwell when he was shot.
 
I disagree with your argument and it seems very biased.

Any armed police officer follows the 'triple tap' when shooting a live target as per his/her training. Unlike in the movies where a single shot brings a person down this is not always the case and one is trained to take 3 shots at the largest surface area in order to neutralize an armed threat.

In this case YY was seated in the driver's seat and as per police intelligence one presumes is armed and dangerous. An armed police officer will not wait to find out what YY's next move is going to be and his job is to neutralize the threat. The threat is not just the gun but the fact that he is in control of a car as well.

The officer cannot see the lower half of the suspect's body, where the weapon is or read from his physical movement behind the steering wheel, to decide on an action. To neutralize him he follows the triple tap, three continuous shots at the largest visible part of his body. In this case a person seated on the drivers side the visible areas are the chest and then his head. Three shots were fired in a close grouping as is visible from the pictures above.

He did not unload his gun. Considering they are most likely to have used a Heckler & Koch G3 or MP5, which means the magazines have 15 to 30 rounds. Had they unloaded the gun that windscreen wouldn't be in place. It was a perfect 3 tap as per protocol.

The question is if this is justified. I live in the North East of Scotland and such cases are rarely reported here, irrespective of ethnicity. But as a law abiding individual I do not want a person driving around carrying an illegal firearm, especially if he has serious priors. I would expect the police to remove that threat by whatever means possible. It is their job to do so.

The outcome of such a situation is based on the actions of both parties involved, not just the police. The instigator here is clearly YY. He might not have fired the shot, which could be either he did not intend to or was unsuccessful in his attempt. YY could have avoided this fate, not have a criminal history for one, not carry a weapon, to stop when asked to or felt like he was followed, come out of the car, throw the weapon out when stopped etc..etc... We do not know the full story. The police officer's options were far more limited on the other hand. His life as well as that of his surrounding colleagues are at stake.

Like you I have no deep knowledge on the subject but it is sad to see a life lost irrespective of ethnicity.

There will never be perfection in enacting the law. There will always be mistakes made intentionally or otherwise. That said YY would have had far more opportunities in life to avoid being in that car at that time, than the cop who had to take a call at that moment.


Please quote any post of mine which you feel shows bias, I think I've followed the story quite accurately and commented only on what's been reported.

What sits uncomfortably with me is that if this was a pre-planned operation, why use unmarked police cars, and why not wear the CCTV equipped uniform which is available these days to record the incident as it unfolded? Or why not use a tannoy to declare police were stopping the vehicle and for the occupants of the car to come out with their hands up?

The situation as it's been reported seems to one where the police knew exactly what was going on and the suspect had no idea. For all he knew the unmarked police cars could have been rival gang cars intent on carrying out a hit.
 
Without any doubt whatsoever the outcome of any investigation, there will be posters that say it is a cover up, sure as the sun comes up tomorrow.

Out of interest, has there been any similar incidents in Australia where police have stopped a drug dealer's car in unmarked police cars and gunned him down? It would be interesting to hear a neutral view as well as yours.
 
I am surprised at how quickly they released his body to the family.
 
Out of interest, has there been any similar incidents in Australia where police have stopped a drug dealer's car in unmarked police cars and gunned him down? It would be interesting to hear a neutral view as well as yours.

None that I can think of, there have been a few cases of people being shot that were armed with knives but they were white so no controversy there.

My own view is people do not understand what a police officer faces when they have to engage with the most violent and despicable people on the planet. As you know people get upset just because a customer is rude to them or a car cuts in front of them and would poop their pants if they were put in situations that the police find themselves. I don't bag out the police because I couldent do what they do and because I couldent possibly understand what they are going through themselves. I'm just grateful that they are there because the alternative is not very pretty. Yes they could be better but those criticizing them don't stand up and lead from the front.
 
None that I can think of, there have been a few cases of people being shot that were armed with knives but they were white so no controversy there.

My own view is people do not understand what a police officer faces when they have to engage with the most violent and despicable people on the planet. As you know people get upset just because a customer is rude to them or a car cuts in front of them and would poop their pants if they were put in situations that the police find themselves. I don't bag out the police because I couldent do what they do and because I couldent possibly understand what they are going through themselves. I'm just grateful that they are there because the alternative is not very pretty. Yes they could be better but those criticizing them don't stand up and lead from the front.


I agree that the police have a difficult job, and our police in Britain are generally very professional and well organised. If you read my earlier post you would have noted that I was in contrast particularly scathing about policing standards in Pakistan by comparison so if there is any bias on my part it is in favour of British police.

By the same token though, as a British subject born and bred, I do want to see these standards upheld across the board, and the facts as reported so far seem very odd. No doubt there will be more details released, but it all seems to have been very avoidable from what I've seen so far. But if this is how drug dealers are going to be meted justice in future, then I don't have a problem with it as long as it is universally applied.
 
I agree that the police have a difficult job, and our police in Britain are generally very professional and well organised. If you read my earlier post you would have noted that I was in contrast particularly scathing about policing standards in Pakistan by comparison so if there is any bias on my part it is in favour of British police.

By the same token though, as a British subject born and bred, I do want to see these standards upheld across the board, and the facts as reported so far seem very odd. No doubt there will be more details released, but it all seems to have been very avoidable from what I've seen so far. But if this is how drug dealers are going to be meted justice in future, then I don't have a problem with it as long as it is universally applied.

I imagine it would be even more difficult to be a police officer in Pakistan and a different set of challenges. I don't know how it could have been more avoidable seeing that the police decided to apprehend him in a car out in the open instead of a building where he could have holed up or even put other people at risk. It seems like they isolated him quite well which protected any innocents from getting involved.

The police may have video of the incident, has there been any reports indicating there is not. I can understand them not releasing them to the media until they finish their own investigation and as usual the police will go on trial by media. If he was executed (the evidence would have to be conclusive) then that should be treated as a crime itself.
 
Have the police said that YY was the one driving/seated in drivers seat? Just asking.

Looking at the photos of YY's car, the police car blocking his car and the position/angles of the bullet holes, it would appear that YY was in the passenger seat when shot.

And if, as it being said, the gun was found in the footwell, then it's most likely it was in the footwell of the passenger side, meaning on YY's side. (A gun would have interfered with the pedals on the drivers side if it was on that side)

Taken all together, it's entirely feasible that he was shot whilst brandishing the gun, which fell out of his hands into the footwell when he was shot.
Update.

Confirmed. YY was sitting in front passenger seat. gun was in front passenger seat footwell.

So again, taken all together, it's entirely feasible that he was shot whilst brandishing the gun, which fell out of his hands into the footwell when he was shot.
 
Update.

Confirmed. YY was sitting in front passenger seat. gun was in front passenger seat footwell.

So again, taken all together, it's entirely feasible that he was shot whilst brandishing the gun, which fell out of his hands into the footwell when he was shot.
Just to add to above:
Did he go for the gun because he thought the Merc which blocked them contained gunmen out to get him considering that it was an unmarked police car, meaning that he wouldn't have known it was the police if everything happened suddenly in a matter of seconds?
 
I imagine it would be even more difficult to be a police officer in Pakistan and a different set of challenges. I don't know how it could have been more avoidable seeing that the police decided to apprehend him in a car out in the open instead of a building where he could have holed up or even put other people at risk. It seems like they isolated him quite well which protected any innocents from getting involved.

The police may have video of the incident, has there been any reports indicating there is not. I can understand them not releasing them to the media until they finish their own investigation and as usual the police will go on trial by media. If he was executed (the evidence would have to be conclusive) then that should be treated as a crime itself.

You seem to be assuming Yaqub was on a mission go down in a blaze of glory, hence the reference to holing up in a building or put other people at risk. Must admit, I haven't read anything which has suggested that so far. I just look at what's been reported and it seems the police cornered his car in unmarked police cars and then ended up shooting him dead. It's possible that Yaqub knew they were police and decided he was going to shoot them anyway and then end up being shot dead, but that seems unlikely for someone who enjoyed a flash life.

It's also possible that he may have thought the unmarked cars were a rival gang as he's already been targeted by drive by shootings. Until we get more details it's all speculation. I am just trying to get a logical reason why events should have gone as they did, and the scenario which fits the bill for Yaqub going head to head with the police in a shoot out would seem to be that he suddenly converted from playboy drug dealer to Isis suicide killer. But that theory hasn't been been put forward yet in any newspaper so I don't know what to think.
 
You seem to be assuming Yaqub was on a mission go down in a blaze of glory, hence the reference to holing up in a building or put other people at risk. Must admit, I haven't read anything which has suggested that so far. I just look at what's been reported and it seems the police cornered his car in unmarked police cars and then ended up shooting him dead. It's possible that Yaqub knew they were police and decided he was going to shoot them anyway and then end up being shot dead, but that seems unlikely for someone who enjoyed a flash life.

It's also possible that he may have thought the unmarked cars were a rival gang as he's already been targeted by drive by shootings. Until we get more details it's all speculation. I am just trying to get a logical reason why events should have gone as they did, and the scenario which fits the bill for Yaqub going head to head with the police in a shoot out would seem to be that he suddenly converted from playboy drug dealer to Isis suicide killer. But that theory hasn't been been put forward yet in any newspaper so I don't know what to think.

No I didn't assume he wanted to go down in a blaze of glory.

The police had pre planned the raid so I assume they planned to catch him out in the open to prevent any chance of others being involved and things going pear shaped. You have to assume anyone that carries a weapon is prepared to use it. Busting into a house to try and apprehend someone would be much risker than surrounding a car out in the open.

The only details I know are what has been reported in the OP's link, and I assume that is just a reporters take on limited information.
 
There was plenty of opportunity to convict someone murdering DeMeneses.
Whom, though? The shooters? They were following orders and were in fear of their lives, and followed procedure. The operational Commander on the day? The observation team who misidentified Mr DeMeneses as a terror suspect?
 
As an outsider, I've always had the impression that the American police are far more trigger happy and institutionally racist unlike the British police who are less prone to firing on people and generally use tasers more. This is obviously just a rough impression I got from reading tabloids and don't really know about their past history with racial prejudices. My bad then.

Varies from place to place. There will always be bad cops, most police officers are friendly. Bad cops are aggressive in general and not be particularly racist but are prejudice. Southern states in US are heavily divided. Many schools have 2 different graduation parties one for the whites and the other for the blacks. White people don't go to black areas, and black people don't hang out at white areas. US media is fueled by people by fear and so everyone is constantly scared. And this plays a role in the minds of a common police officer. So police crimes do take place. UK cops aren't violent but they don't mess around They are clever. For example, few Tamil gang members, not big as this guy and were wanted for a murder. They simply put up a wanted notice around Tamil restaurants, bakeries, groceries stores, dvd stores, karate classes, sangeetham classes and etc in English and Tamil. Notice not only had their picture, but every detail including parents' name, what town/village their parents were from, where they hung out, their girl friend/wives name and so on. They attended Tamil events, their village/town reunions and so on to pressure on their parents and everyone that came in a contact with them. When they caught them, they were all handed 40 to 75 years in jail. UK police are serious and don't mess around. In Canada after few similar incidents, apart from police training, now they require you to have some kind of university degree, preferably in Liberal Arts(Sociology, Social science and etc). They want people that have knowledge about the world, societies, minorities and etc. Many unis force you to take few courses related to that even if your main focus is something else and I'm happy as this allow us to have a better society.
 
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