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"I do doubt Bob Woolmer's death was due to natural causes" : Ian Chappell

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As details emerge of former New Zealand player Lou Vincent's plea bargain and confession of fixing, the thought keeps recurring that the officials don't take the issue of corruption seriously enough.

Four years ago a frustrated Shane Watson blurted out his lament: "Maybe they [ICC] don't want to get to the bottom of it [fixing] because it might run too deep."

If you think Watson was being overly sceptical, I've put together a tell-tale list.

The Australian Cricket Board covered up details when Mark Waugh and Shane Warne took money from a bookie for pitch and weather information back in 1995.

In the late nineties, there were whispers of shady characters hanging around the Indian dressing room during Sharjah matches. Not long afterwards captain Mohammad Azharuddin and batsman Ajay Jadeja were banned for their involvement in fixing.

Following those bans there were strong rumours circulating that further investigations had been halted because officials were worried the Indian team would be decimated. I confess to wondering at the time - just like Watson did years later - if the abandonment had something to do with the depth of the corruption.

There was the thorough and illuminating report of Justice Qayyum into the Salim Malik affair and other fixing controversies in Pakistan cricket. Despite the judge's hard-hitting summary, that report has largely been ignored by officials. And it's not only Pakistan officials who failed to take notice. Read Qayyum's report and take note of the names of some international coaches who have been appointed and interviewed for jobs in recent years. Then look at some of the recent ICC Hall of Fame inductees. It's illuminating.

Then came the Hansie Cronje affair. While Cronje was banished in disgrace, the fall-out didn't stop there. Two players, Herschelle Gibbs and Henry Williams, received six-month bans, but the former returned to international cricket and enjoyed a successful career. Other members of Cronje's team who attended the infamous meeting to decide if a game "should be fixed" have gone on to have careers in and around cricket.

There's the not-so-small matter of Bob Woolmer's suspicious death. The coach of South Africa during Cronje's discredited reign and then in charge of Pakistan during a limp 2007 World Cup campaign, Woolmer died in Jamaica in very strange circumstances. I don't mean to suggest Woolmer was involved in any scandal, but it wouldn't surprise me if he was about to reveal some misgivings. I do doubt his death was due to natural causes.

With controversy raging over fixing in cricket, the ICC had an executive member who was president of his country's board while he was a bookmaker. Surely, given the prevailing atmosphere and the need to send a strong message to the crooks, this was at best a misjudgement.

Another misjudgement involved England's unusually cosy reception and acceptance of substantial funding from later-convicted fraudster, Allen Stanford. The man photographed welcoming Stanford's helicopter at Lord's was Giles Clarke, chairman of the ECB. Recently Clarke was a major player in the revamping of the ICC, which substantially raised the profile of the big three - India, Australia and England.

While Clarke's involvement with Stanford was purely a failure to do proper diligence, another member of the big three, N Srinivasan, has been stripped of his BCCI presidency by the Indian Supreme Court. However, the court's concern over Srinivasan's involvement (or otherwise) in the Chennai Super Kings scandal isn't shared by the ICC, which has him listed as the incoming president.

Given the damning information overheard in cricket corridors - even without cocking an ear - and Ed Hawkins' informative book, Bookie Gambler Fixer Spy, the officials are hard-pressed to claim lack of available information as a defence.

Many of Vincent's allegations involve T20 matches, which should concern administrators considering the high value placed on that format to fortify the game's financial future.

The officials erred by not adopting a zero-tolerance policy against corruption from the outset. Despite many dire warnings since, they still haven't elevated their sights.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/745361.html
 
Agree about woolmer death. He died the day after we lost to ireland
 
Seems like a trend in the world of cricket to spread rumours.

state facts with proof otherwise keep the doubts to your self !

Have some respect for his family at least.
 
What a idiot. Even if his views are true, you don't tell the media what you believe.Imagine what Bob's family will be feeling.
 
One reason why I like and respect him, never afraid to speak his mind. His article on Sachin right after the end of WC2007 is another example, I bet no other pundit would have dared to write something like that at that point.
 
Well the inquest into his death returned with an 'open verdict'. So the jury, after seeing all the evidence could not decide one way or the other therefore we will never know.

An inquest into the death of Pakistan cricket coach Bob Woolmer has failed to determine what killed him.


Mr Woolmer died shortly after his team's shock exit from the World Cup in March. He was found unconscious in his hotel room in Jamaica.

Last night a Jamaican jury returned an open verdict on his death, after four hours deliberation at the end of a five week inquest that heard evidence from more than 50 people.


The verdict meant the 11-man jury was unable to decide if Mr Woolmer's death was an accident, murder or the result of natural causes.

The jury foreman said: "We came to an open conclusion because the evidence presented to us was very weak.

"There were too many what-ifs and too many loopholes."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1570961/Open-verdict-in-Bob-Woolmer-inquest.html
 
The main problem is the ICC which is the root of all corruption believe it or not.
 
What a idiot. Even if his views are true, you don't tell the media what you believe.Imagine what Bob's family will be feeling.

I think they probably have similar suspicions to those of Chappell.

According to Ian Shircore's book Conspiracy, Woolmer wrote an email to his wife after the PAK-IRE match in which he seemed happy and positive. Then another email was sent to the PCB from his laptop, written in poor English, expressing shame and offering to resign from his job.

Who wrote the second email, I wonder?
 
Chappell etal have the ability to make their presence felt against corruption and the toothless ICC what is stopping them how about sidelining Aussie players from IPL and demanding a transparent inquiry on the IPL fiasco (saying we will not send our players unitl the mess is sorted out doesn't the repute of Aussie players is tarnished by playing in this corrupt pool of IPL ) i remember he said something like this when Pak's spot fixing saga came up i.e. house in order n blah blah before they play any more cricket, but guess what alot of $$$$ are at stake and they can't risk standing up against the Capone minded BCCI.

the hypocrisy is evident :facepalm:
 
Chappell etal have the ability to make their presence felt against corruption and the toothless ICC what is stopping them how about sidelining Aussie players from IPL and demanding a transparent inquiry on the IPL fiasco (saying we will not send our players unitl the mess is sorted out doesn't the repute of Aussie players is tarnished by playing in this corrupt pool of IPL ) i remember he said something like this when Pak's spot fixing saga came up i.e. house in order n blah blah before they play any more cricket, but guess what alot of $$$$ are at stake and they can't risk standing up against the Capone minded BCCI.

the hypocrisy is evident :facepalm:

Ian Chappell is a commentator. What control does he have over Australians playing in IPL?
 
Ian Chappell is a commentator. What control does he have over Australians playing in IPL?

Well if he raises his voice i'm sure the players will listen or at least the problem will be highlighted its easy to raise fingers on oppressed ones and minnows but difficult to bell the cat if Aussie players back out from IPL then this joke of a league would be doomed
 
If he raised his voice the players will tell him to sod off and call him senile.

Just as he and his compatriots did when Bradman told them not to take part in WSC.

He's a respected former cricketer and captain. He is a high profile commentator. That's the limit of his influence.
 
If he raised his voice the players will tell him to sod off and call him senile.

Just as he and his compatriots did when Bradman told them not to take part in WSC.

He's a respected former cricketer and captain. He is a high profile commentator. That's the limit of his influence.

Then i think he should just do on field punditry and not make these self-perceived claims i like his analysis on :kakmal
 
I think they probably have similar suspicions to those of Chappell.

According to Ian Shircore's book Conspiracy, Woolmer wrote an email to his wife after the PAK-IRE match in which he seemed happy and positive. Then another email was sent to the PCB from his laptop, written in poor English, expressing shame and offering to resign from his job.

Who wrote the second email, I wonder?

Why was he happy after such a shamfull defeat?? After such a disgrace he should be bit worried/depress.
 
Why was he happy after such a shamfull defeat?? After such a disgrace he should be bit worried/depress.

The point is that someone who wasn't Woolmer sent an email pretending to be him to the PCB around or just after his death
 
Has anyone seen the email or is it just something someone wrote in their book, to help sensationalise the book and raise sales?
 
Unless someone provides some proof, this will remain a baseless, yet very serious, accusation. I didn't watch cricket back when this happened, but this is definitely not something one should say just like that.
 
Has anyone seen the email or is it just something someone wrote in their book, to help sensationalise the book and raise sales?

It's just one conspiracy tale in fifty in the book. The writer is repeating a story printed in the heavyweight British press.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1551443/Woolmers-killers-may-have-sent-mystery-email.html



Part of the email, to the Pakistan Cricket Board, read: I would like to praise my association with the Pakistan team but now I would like to announce my retirement after the World Cup, to live the rest of my life in Cape Town. I have no lust for the job and I will not like others to make personal remarks at me. Professionally, I am open to criticism, I will be ready to continue the job if the president asks me for it.

This is not language used by an educated native English-speaker. Mrs Woolmer read the alleged contents of the email and was, according to friends, "deeply dismissive" that it could have been written by her late husband.

Neil Manthorp, a South African cricket journalist and broadcaster who was one of Mr Woolmer's closest friends, said: "I have received hundreds of emails from him over the years and this is not his style - not the sort of words and phrases that he would use."
 
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Reminds me of how some Indian channels were accusing Inzamam of being Woolmer's murderer. Idiotic stuff really.
 
Stop digging old graves. He's dead and that is it. Move on.
 
It's just one conspiracy tale in fifty in the book. The writer is repeating a story printed in the heavyweight British press.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1551443/Woolmers-killers-may-have-sent-mystery-email.html



Part of the email, to the Pakistan Cricket Board, read: I would like to praise my association with the Pakistan team but now I would like to announce my retirement after the World Cup, to live the rest of my life in Cape Town. I have no lust for the job and I will not like others to make personal remarks at me. Professionally, I am open to criticism, I will be ready to continue the job if the president asks me for it.

This is not language used by an educated native English-speaker. Mrs Woolmer read the alleged contents of the email and was, according to friends, "deeply dismissive" that it could have been written by her late husband.

Neil Manthorp, a South African cricket journalist and broadcaster who was one of Mr Woolmer's closest friends, said: "I have received hundreds of emails from him over the years and this is not his style - not the sort of words and phrases that he would use."

What if he had a headache and asked one of the team analyst's to type this up while he sipped his tea? Unless the killer was some sort of highly trained assassin who left no finger-prints on his electronic device, nor any other evidence and also managed to convince Woolmer to part with his e-mail password, all the while being in a building that definitely had cameras everywhere, it seems highly unlikely.
 
It's just one conspiracy tale in fifty in the book. The writer is repeating a story printed in the heavyweight British press.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1551443/Woolmers-killers-may-have-sent-mystery-email.html



Part of the email, to the Pakistan Cricket Board, read: I would like to praise my association with the Pakistan team but now I would like to announce my retirement after the World Cup, to live the rest of my life in Cape Town. I have no lust for the job and I will not like others to make personal remarks at me. Professionally, I am open to criticism, I will be ready to continue the job if the president asks me for it.

This is not language used by an educated native English-speaker. Mrs Woolmer read the alleged contents of the email and was, according to friends, "deeply dismissive" that it could have been written by her late husband.

Neil Manthorp, a South African cricket journalist and broadcaster who was one of Mr Woolmer's closest friends, said: "I have received hundreds of emails from him over the years and this is not his style - not the sort of words and phrases that he would use."

ROFLOL at The Telegraph now being cited as a bastion of journalism. We all know what its tendencies are.

Anyway, Bilal7 has pretty much shredded your conspiracy theories into pieces, Robert. But keep believing what you want...
 
Second Email was written in poor English from his laptop, thats something to think about it.

It is one of those incidents we will never get to bottom of. It will always remain mystery.
 
ROFLOL at The Telegraph now being cited as a bastion of journalism. We all know what its tendencies are.

Anyway, Bilal7 has pretty much shredded your conspiracy theories into pieces, Robert. But keep believing what you want...

There is no need to be so rude.

If you don;t like the Telegraphs's "tendencies" you can read the same story in The Guardian.

So..... Woolmer could have persuaded someone to type (in poor English) one of the most important emails of his career, while he sipped his tea. That's possible but seems unlikely to me.

How did the hyoid bone in Woolmer's neck get broken?

Something does not add up here. Due to the poor quality of the forensic investigation, we will never know what truly happened.
 
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There is no need to be so rude.

If you don;t like the Telegraphs's "tendencies" you can read the same story in The Guardian.

So..... Woolmer could have persuaded someone to type (in poor English) one of the most important emails of his career, while he sipped his tea. That's possible but seems unlikely to me.

How did the hyoid bone in Woolmer's neck get broken?

Something does not add up here. Due to the poor quality of the forensic investigation, we will never know what truly happened.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2007/jul/01/cricket.features

Should put an end to your doubts.
 
Should put an end to your doubts.

Not really. The jury returned an open verdict on Woolmer's death, because there was not enough evidence to confirm any hypothesis.

IMO the police didn't investigate properly and the court sat too early with insufficient evidence available to them. Woolmer's widow will never know what really happened to her husband of decades.
 
As details emerge of former New Zealand player Lou Vincent's plea bargain and confession of fixing, the thought keeps recurring that the officials don't take the issue of corruption seriously enough.

Four years ago a frustrated Shane Watson blurted out his lament: "Maybe they [ICC] don't want to get to the bottom of it [fixing] because it might run too deep."

If you think Watson was being overly skeptical, I've put together a tell-tale list.

The Australian Cricket Board covered up details when Mark Waugh and Shane Warne took money from a bookie for pitch and weather information back in 1995.

In the late nineties, there were whispers of shady characters hanging around the Indian dressing room during Sharjah matches. Not long afterwards captain Mohammad Azharuddin and batsman Ajay Jadeja were banned for their involvement in fixing.

Following those bans there were strong rumours circulating that further investigations had been halted because officials were worried the Indian team would be decimated. I confess to wondering at the time - just like Watson did years later - if the abandonment had something to do with the depth of the corruption.

There was the thorough and illuminating report of Justice Qayyum into the Salim Malik affair and other fixing controversies in Pakistan cricket. Despite the judge's hard-hitting summary, that report has largely been ignored by officials. And it's not only Pakistan officials who failed to take notice. Read Qayyum's report and take note of the names of some international coaches who have been appointed and interviewed for jobs in recent years. Then look at some of the recent ICC Hall of Fame inductees. It's illuminating.

Then came the Hansie Cronje affair. While Cronje was banished in disgrace, the fall-out didn't stop there. Two players, Herschelle Gibbs and Henry Williams, received six-month bans, but the former returned to international cricket and enjoyed a successful career. Other members of Cronje's team who attended the infamous meeting to decide if a game "should be fixed" have gone on to have careers in and around cricket.

There's the not-so-small matter of Bob Woolmer's suspicious death. The coach of South Africa during Cronje's discredited reign and then in charge of Pakistan during a limp 2007 World Cup campaign, Woolmer died in Jamaica in very strange circumstances. I don't mean to suggest Woolmer was involved in any scandal, but it wouldn't surprise me if he was about to reveal some misgivings. I do doubt his death was due to natural causes.

With controversy raging over fixing in cricket, the ICC had an executive member who was president of his country's board while he was a bookmaker. Surely, given the prevailing atmosphere and the need to send a strong message to the crooks, this was at best a misjudgement.

Another misjudgement involved England's unusually cosy reception and acceptance of substantial funding from later-convicted fraudster, Allen Stanford. The man photographed welcoming Stanford's helicopter at Lord's was Giles Clarke, chairman of the ECB. Recently Clarke was a major player in the revamping of the ICC, which substantially raised the profile of the big three - India, Australia and England.

While Clarke's involvement with Stanford was purely a failure to do proper diligence, another member of the big three, N Srinivasan, has been stripped of his BCCI presidency by the Indian Supreme Court. However, the court's concern over Srinivasan's involvement (or otherwise) in the Chennai Super Kings scandal isn't shared by the ICC, which has him listed as the incoming president.

Given the damning information overheard in cricket corridors - even without cocking an ear - and Ed Hawkins' informative book, Bookie Gambler Fixer Spy, the officials are hard-pressed to claim lack of available information as a defence.

Many of Vincent's allegations involve T20 matches, which should concern administrators considering the high value placed on that format to fortify the game's financial future.

The officials erred by not adopting a zero-tolerance policy against corruption from the outset. Despite many dire warnings since, they still haven't elevated their sights.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/745361.html




Excellent piece by Ian regarding several controversies involving various levels of corruption in cricket. I give him high praise for also mentioning the Mark Waugh and Warne controversy...it is a travesty that this info was swept under the carpet for so long especially since the same people (pretty much) now lecture us about "Honesty and Integrity." I have highlighted the sections of particular interest (to most) because some have never been discussed openly in the past or have not been talked about much in the past e.g.

- How Indian fixing investigation was not allowed to be performed completely (this is something I have heard about in the past and have stated the same here on PP as well but I usually end up getting Indian poster's panties in a twist when names like Kapil, Gavaskar and especially Sachin are thrown in the middle)!

- How ICC had an executive member who was president of his country's board while he was a bookmaker. Surely, given the prevailing atmosphere and the need to send a strong message to the crooks, this was at best a misjudgment.

- Stanford issue

- Obviously the Srinavasan fiasco and how he could still end up heading ICC despite being embroiled in so many controversies and being suspended by Indian courts

-
 
It's just one conspiracy tale in fifty in the book. The writer is repeating a story printed in the heavyweight British press.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1551443/Woolmers-killers-may-have-sent-mystery-email.html



Part of the email, to the Pakistan Cricket Board, read: I would like to praise my association with the Pakistan team but now I would like to announce my retirement after the World Cup, to live the rest of my life in Cape Town. I have no lust for the job and I will not like others to make personal remarks at me. Professionally, I am open to criticism, I will be ready to continue the job if the president asks me for it.

This is not language used by an educated native English-speaker. Mrs Woolmer read the alleged contents of the email and was, according to friends, "deeply dismissive" that it could have been written by her late husband.

Neil Manthorp, a South African cricket journalist and broadcaster who was one of Mr Woolmer's closest friends, said: "I have received hundreds of emails from him over the years and this is not his style - not the sort of words and phrases that he would use."


Very interesting.

Saddens me to say it and hoping it does not cause offence, but I personally think Bob was murdered.

A hired professional killing often aims to make it look like a natural or accidental death.
 
Don't understand why few people are getting rude and angry. Others have the right to investigate this matter and present this viewpoint. Truly childish behavior.
 
Very interesting.

Saddens me to say it and hoping it does not cause offence, but I personally think Bob was murdered.

When Cronje died after he confessed to fixing, there was a conspiracy theory that his plane had been sabotaged. At the time I dismissed this, believing that the crash was more likely a mechanical failure or pilot error.

In the wake of Woolmer's death, I'm not so sure.
 
There is no need to be so rude.

If you don;t like the Telegraphs's "tendencies" you can read the same story in The Guardian.

So..... Woolmer could have persuaded someone to type (in poor English) one of the most important emails of his career, while he sipped his tea. That's possible but seems unlikely to me.

How did the hyoid bone in Woolmer's neck get broken?

Something does not add up here. Due to the poor quality of the forensic investigation, we will never know what truly happened.

As long as we're not taking names then sure.
 
When Cronje died after he confessed to fixing, there was a conspiracy theory that his plane had been sabotaged. At the time I dismissed this, believing that the crash was more likely a mechanical failure or pilot error.

In the wake of Woolmer's death, I'm not so sure.
Yes, Robert, I recall your robust attempts at dismissing that particular theory and erm ..ah... erm making various disparaging remarks towards those PPers suggesting that theory.

Moving onto Bob Woolmer's death, suffice to say that assuming he was murdered, then those with the power, money and influence to arrange this when the spotlight is on due to him being the coach of one of the stronger nations losing to a minnow in the World Cup, the same shady powerbrokers would have no problems in ensuring that manipulating the hotel camera's, staff et al to arrange a cover was taken care of.
 
Yes, Robert, I recall your robust attempts at dismissing that particular theory and erm ..ah... erm making various disparaging remarks towards those PPers suggesting that theory.

Moving onto Bob Woolmer's death, suffice to say that assuming he was murdered, then those with the power, money and influence to arrange this when the spotlight is on due to him being the coach of one of the stronger nations losing to a minnow in the World Cup, the same shady powerbrokers would have no problems in ensuring that manipulating the hotel camera's, staff et al to arrange a cover was taken care of.

I don't recall making disparaging remarks toward PPers. Thank you for giving me the credit for being flexible enough to change my mind :)
 
I don't think we'll ever know the real truth. There was not just enough evidence for court to say whether it was murder or death by natural causes.
 
Surely the hotel CCTV would have revealed whether or not someone made a trip to see Mr Woolmer in his room.
 
So..... Woolmer could have persuaded someone to type (in poor English) one of the most important emails of his career, while he sipped his tea. That's possible but seems unlikely to me.

.

Not to mention that the type of English used is pretty much the type that someone who overestimated his English ability would use.

The writer probably thought he was using "difficult" English by using the word "lust", which would almost never be used by a native English speaker in any sentence relating to employment/business matters .
 
Lust is similar to gay in that whilst it has multiple means it is only ever used in one way
 
Surely the hotel CCTV would have revealed whether or not someone made a trip to see Mr Woolmer in his room.
Manipulating/editing CCTV camera footage is not something completely unheard of - especially when stakes are high and there are too many individuals, including corrupt players, ICC officials with vested interests, illegal gambling mafioso's et al who don't want things getting out of control and the authorities delving too deeply into their activities.
 
Hats off to Ian Chapel. This fixing s**t has been going on for far too long. Many ATG were invloved including our own. Off the record many will admit that others are at it but never admit on camera.
I have heard both the 90s superstar batsmen were at it. Chapel hints at this mentioning early closure of an inquiry.
ATG spinners of all time were also involved in some way or the other.
So called best **** arm fast bowler of all time.
A renowned wicket keeper who also played as a top order batsman was saved by his board.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
 
Hats off to Ian Chapel. This fixing s**t has been going on for far too long. Many ATG were invloved including our own. Off the record many will admit that others are at it but never admit on camera.
I have heard both the 90s superstar batsmen were at it. Chapel hints at this mentioning early closure of an inquiry.
ATG spinners of all time were also involved in some way or the other.
So called best **** arm fast bowler of all time.
A renowned wicket keeper who also played as a top order batsman was saved by his board.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk





Exactly, as I mentioned in my earlier post above this is something I have heard about in the past too and have stated the same here on PP as well...but I usually end up getting Indian poster's panties in a twist when names like Kapil, Gavaskar and especially Sachin are thrown in the middle!

Rest of the cases he mentioned are all known as well except the one who was a bookie as well as being part of ICC executive board and his own country's board member as well...who could that be?
 
Exactly, as I mentioned in my earlier post above this is something I have heard about in the past too and have stated the same here on PP as well...but I usually end up getting Indian poster's panties in a twist when names like Kapil, Gavaskar and especially Sachin are thrown in the middle!

Rest of the cases he mentioned are all known as well except the one who was a bookie as well as being part of ICC executive board and his own country's board member as well...who could that be?

Is he talking about Srinavasan?

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
 
Surely the hotel CCTV would have revealed whether or not someone made a trip to see Mr Woolmer in his room.
What I recall that hotel has only one camera on each floor and some of them were not even working.
The only camera was around the lift and anyone could have come up to the floor via the stairs.
 
Can be possible. But our 'doodh kay dhule' countrymen are too busy pointing the trio now sharjeel instead of realizing this.
 
Always felt he was murdered by a hired professional..
 
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