"I don’t think we should give an inch" : Border rubbishes India’s Sydney Test demand as ‘mind games’

[MP2011]

Is there a soul in this world who genuinely thinks that having a big population is advantageous as far as talent is concerned?

 

[tyron_woodley]

In comparison to India Pakistan is not big infact Bangladesh population is slightly more or similar. India has a population of at least 6 times of Pakistan. So Although Pakistan is 2/3rd biggest country but advantage is not as big.

You must know all of this already but it probably hurts knowing despite all this advantage India is not currently number 1 and hence all these denials.

That's because population doesn't translate to winning genius. Only an idiot would suggest that to be the case.

Facilities, access to proper diet/nutrition, training, privileges and standard of living are far more important in an elitist sport like krikut.

India are a top side in all formats. Not much difference between the number 1 and number 3. Aussies are just place holders at the moment

When they tour India away then we will see their try auakat again. India will reclaim the number 1.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Is there a soul in this world who genuinely thinks that having a big population is advantageous as far as talent is concerned?

Yes some geniuses from the passsst bowling trundling nation ala Pakistan.

 

[Pakhs]

Lol stop beating around the bush and answer my question.

If population and size are everything, then why is Pakistan with a population twice that of Australia, England and New Zealand put together is currently ranked no.7 while the aforementioned teams are in the top 4 ? Heck even add Sri Lanka and South Africa to that..... You get the point.

We were number 1 for 4 years straight so it doesn't really "hurt" as much as you think. But I'm pretty sure it hurts being ranked barely above the West Indies for years despite being the second biggest cricketing nation.

Pakistan has also won everything that India has won, And Australia has done 10 times greater things than India and the rest. Pakistan was also number 1 for a long time and curently has a better head to head record against India and similar record in most things related to cricket.

India considering its size etc have always underachieved in sports infact they should be topping Olympic medals list along with China.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Pakistan has also won everything that India has won, And Australia has done 10 times greater things than India and the rest. Pakistan was also number 1 for a long time and curently has a better head to head record against India and similar record in most things related to cricket.

India considering its size etc have always underachieved in sports infact they should be topping Olympic medals list along with China.

China topped in what team sports? China topped when in combat Sports? China topped when in strength sports unless you count the Manlet divisions?

Besides they have a better doping program.india are still a 3rd world country.

Even with limited resources India has competed with the likes of Aussies. Actually only Aussies are ahead ROFL.

Englund just fluked a WC recently.

Pakistan has never been number 1 in tests for longer than 1 week.

Pakistan has never been number 1 in odi for more than a week.

They only got to number 1 in T20 because they never faced India ROFL. Pakistan beat the fodder version teams of top nations who rested all key players.

 

[Mesozoic]

Pakistan has also won everything that India has won, And Australia has done 10 times greater things than India and the rest. Pakistan was also number 1 for a long time and curently has a better head to head record against India and similar record in most things related to cricket.

India considering its size etc have always underachieved in sports infact they should be topping Olympic medals list along with China.

Even West Indies have won everything that India have. They have way more cricketing achievements than Pakistan. But that's not my point. I'll ask you this one final time.

If according to you, the reason why India are a top team is it's population size and cricket being the only sport, then why are the likes of Pakistan and Bangladesh aren't atleast in the top-6 out of a handful of 9 nations?

And the so called "under performances" in other sports are not only limited to India but to whole of the subcontinent and most other third world countries. It's not much of a surprise really.

 

[Pakhs]

China topped in what team sports? China topped when in combat Sports? China topped when in strength sports unless you count the Manlet divisions?

Besides they have a better doping program.india are still a 3rd world country.

Even with limited resources India has competed with the likes of Aussies. Actually only Aussies are ahead ROFL.

Englund just fluked a WC recently.

Pakistan has never been number 1 in tests for longer than 1 week.

Pakistan has never been number 1 in odi for more than a week.

They only got to number 1 in T20 because they never faced India ROFL. Pakistan beat the fodder version teams of top nations who rested all key players.

Even West Indies have won everything that India have. They have way more cricketing achievements than Pakistan. But that's not my point. I'll ask you this one final time.

If according to you, the reason why India are a top team is it's population size and cricket being the only sport, then why are the likes of Pakistan and Bangladesh aren't atleast in the top-6 out of a handful of 9 nations?

And the so called "under performances" in other sports are not only limited to India but to whole of the subcontinent and most other third world countries. It's not much of a surprise really.

Yes WI have also done about the same as India in cricket. All these teams have been top side in the past and have had their times. Pakistan have also been up and down just like India.

You keep asking me about Pakistan as if I told you Pakistan have done wonders in cricket but they have done about the same as India which has a population 6 times bigger.

Regarding better facilities etc my point is India doesn't need as good a facility as Australia given they have a larger pool to select talent from where Australia is forced to work with anything they can get given its smaller population and competition with other sports.

 

[Mesozoic]

Yes WI have also done about the same as India in cricket. All these teams have been top side in the past and have had their times. Pakistan have also been up and down just like India.

You keep asking me about Pakistan as if I told you Pakistan have done wonders in cricket but they have done about the same as India which has a population 6 times bigger.

Regarding better facilities etc my point is India doesn't need as good a facility as Australia given they have a larger pool to select talent from where Australia is forced to work with anything they can get given its smaller population and competition with other sports.

I agree with most of your points but that population logic is just extremely dumb no offense.

Indonesia haven't even qualified for a FIFA world cup once let alone winning it and it's the biggest country in the world where soccer is the no.1 sport with more people than Germany, France, Italy and Argentina put together. So, there you have it.....

And you haven't yet answered my question. I understand if you don't want to answer that.

Cheers !

 

[Pakhs]

I agree with most of your points but that population logic is just extremely dumb no offense.

Indonesia haven't even qualified for a FIFA world cup once let alone winning it and it's the biggest country in the world where soccer is the no.1 sport with more people than Germany, France, Italy and Argentina put together. So, there you have it.....

And you haven't yet answered my question. I understand if you don't want to answer that.

Cheers !

What was your question I have already said its not about Pakistan, its about India trying to dominate cricket world by sabotaging other countries where they should be dominating it any way with that sort of population.

Indonesia is a poor country and competing in football is not same as cricket thats the dumbest comparison ever. I dont want to list the reason why football is different to cricket because there are about 100.

 

[Mesozoic]

What was your question I have already said its not about Pakistan, its about India trying to dominate cricket world by sabotaging other countries where they should be dominating it any way with that sort of population.

Indonesia is a poor country and competing in football is not same as cricket thats the dumbest comparison ever. I dont want to list the reason why football is different to cricket because there are about 100.

If according to you, the reason why India are a top team is it's population size and cricket being the only sport, then why are the likes of Pakistan and Bangladesh aren't atleast in the top-6 out of a handful of 9 nations?

Yes. Indonesia is poor and so is India. What's your point?

I know football has more competition that's why I said "atleast qualifying".

 

[Pakhs]

Yes. Indonesia is poor and so is India. What's your point?

I know football has more competition that's why I said "atleast qualifying".

Its not just more competition, The top 35 countries have got supreme structures in place and great footballing heritage and culture. India also have a great culture for cricket yet for some reason fell the need to sabotage other countries.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Its not just more competition, The top 35 countries have got supreme structures in place and great footballing heritage and culture. India also have a great culture for cricket yet for some reason fell the need to sabotage other countries.

Oh my god. Whatever man. You win. you just don't want to listen.

India are only taking what is rightfully theirs because they are able to promote their product better.

and anyway regarding India's talent pool, it's actually quite small because only privileged schools have access to sports. This accounts for all sports if any at all.

Indian parents just don't advocate for sports in general as they want their kids to earn a living via education. So yes there is just a lack of sporting culture.

give India better facilities, access to better diets etc and change the dynamics of their living conditions and then you shall see what India is capable of.

India just don't invest in sports. Hockey players get paid peanuts. So there is no real scope for kids to earn a living apart from cricket and even there it's not quite straight forward as only privileged schools can participate at a state level.

 

[Pakhs]

Oh my god. Whatever man. You win. you just don't want to listen.

India are only taking what is rightfully theirs because they are able to promote their product better.

and anyway regarding India's talent pool, it's actually quite small because only privileged schools have access to sports. This accounts for all sports if any at all.

Indian parents just don't advocate for sports in general as they want their kids to earn a living via education. So yes there is just a lack of sporting culture.

give India better facilities, access to better diets etc and change the dynamics of their living conditions and then you shall see what India is capable of.

India just don't invest in sports. Hockey players get paid peanuts. So there is no real scope for kids to earn a living apart from cricket and even there it's not quite straight forward as only privileged schools can participate at a state level.

I expect India to get their at least in cricket one day. their rightful place would be like america in baseball.

 

[tyron_woodley]

I expect India to get their at least in cricket one day. their rightful place would be like america in baseball.

well they have been a top side since 2005. india unfortunately are still a 3rd world country so they will have to compete with the likes of australia and england to a lesser extent. pakistan are always a surprise package.

 

[Mesozoic]

Its not just more competition, The top 35 countries have got supreme structures in place and great footballing heritage and culture. India also have a great culture for cricket yet for some reason fell the need to sabotage other countries.

I think I've already asked you this but you bet around the bush as usual.

What "sabotaging" did the BCCI do exactly? You seem to be quite adamant on that.

 

[Pakhs]

I think I've already asked you this but you bet around the bush as usual.

What "sabotaging" did the BCCI do exactly? You seem to be quite adamant on that.

By demanding greater share from ICC generated money even though they have more than enough can can even generate more if they want to. They did that knowing full well this will push smaller board cricketers more towards T20 only.

 

[Mesozoic]

By demanding greater share from ICC generated money even though they have more than enough can can even generate more if they want to. They did that knowing full well this will push smaller board cricketers more towards T20 only.

Oh yeah charity... forgot it.

 

[tyron_woodley]

By demanding greater share from ICC generated money even though they have more than enough can can even generate more if they want to. They did that knowing full well this will push smaller board cricketers more towards T20 only.

do you have proof about this? india generates more views and promotes their product better. They have done more for cricket hence they are just taking whats rightfully theirs. India isnt stealing the shares of these other asian countries.

 

[HitWicket]

do you have proof about this? india generates more views and promotes their product better.

And if so will be rewarded from that in their own revenues. ICC revenues should be evenly distributed between full members with a greater proportion also designated towards the funding of associates (with clear targets to meet for increased funding).

 

[Pakhs]

Oh yeah charity... forgot it.

do you have proof about this? india generates more views and promotes their product better. They have done more for cricket hence they are just taking whats rightfully theirs. India isnt stealing the shares of these other asian countries.

It was always shared equally to develop cricket and keep smaller boards floating which was required. But then India came along and said no we want more share. Compare that to fifa who spend millions just trying to develop the game.

 

[MMHS]

By demanding greater share from ICC generated money even though they have more than enough can can even generate more if they want to. They did that knowing full well this will push smaller board cricketers more towards T20 only.

That’s not true at all - PCB accepted to play two Test Ashes warmer as early as 2000, when there was no BCCI bullying. Both PAK & WIN cricket has been destroyed by the chase of T20 because its easy money (on & off the game I must say), and the opportunist Administrators found it the easiest way to make some quick bucks when they are in charge. Recently SRL has joined the party, otherwise between 2000-2015 they have played many more Tests than PAK or WIN, yet could survive.

Despite the team’s capacity and the prospects of financial returns, BCB has prioritised Test cricket as much as possible- last year replaced 3 T20s with a Test in NZ tour, which eventually was cancelled for that mosque attack, this year would have played another 3 in planned SRL tour.... NZ will play 3 Tests in their next BD trip.... and still BCB will survive. Now, CV situation has brought every boards in knees, therefore can’t say much, but the FTP of BCB that is few months back for next 3-4 years, if 75% of that materialises, BD is likely to play more Tests than PAK.

No one is pushing anyone, or other way everyone is pushing their weight on others - he who is heavier will press harder. Today, I read lots of rubbish from British based PAK posters about IPLs monopoly - you guys should see your face in mirror first - 23 years back, Wasim & Waquar were not given 3 weeks window by English Counties to play the Tournament on Indian Independence Cup (Anwar’s 194 tournament). British Counties made sure for 100+ years, there won’t be any cricket globally between May to August and biggest losers were WIN that time who had to squeeze their season to three months, SRL would have been as well had they got 5-6 players in Counties - now BCB is forced to bring their premium tours in full monsoon - June to September.... it’ll remain as such unless BCB forces their way to take some pie of that window between October to April.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Oh the arrogance by some fans here. It's good that we are minmows in other sports otherwise we would have destroyed them also.

 

[tyron_woodley]

And if so will be rewarded from that in their own revenues. ICC revenues should be evenly distributed between full members with a greater proportion also designated towards the funding of associates (with clear targets to meet for increased funding).

No it shouldn't. It's like a pay per view model. Whoever generates more views earns more. It's quite simple.

 

[tyron_woodley]

It was always shared equally to develop cricket and keep smaller boards floating which was required. But then India came along and said no we want more share. Compare that to fifa who spend millions just trying to develop the game.

Football is accessible to anyone. Cricket is an elitist sport. Poor comparison.

 

[HitWicket]

No it shouldn't. It's like a pay per view model. Whoever generates more views earns more. It's quite simple.

Except the BCCI aren't generating anything, it just happens to be the market in their country that is. The ICCs revenue should primarily be focused on the development of cricket globally, not on allowing the BCCI to double dip on the benefits of their market size. It's a crazy model that rightfully isn't seen in other major sports.

 

[MMHS]

Cricket economy isn’t balanced and that’s the mother of all problems.

For the sake of saying, say India is generating 65% revenue & they are asking for 65% - so net net no change - get India out of ICC, on papers, account is balanced.

But then, today was Indian business houses are outbidding other country brands, tomorrow British brands will do the same, but at a lower amount - then ECB will demand 65%..... take out England then, on papers not much change again - but now CA will demand 65% ..... take out Aussies as well. After that, what’ll remain, split it equally - it won’t be more than what now PCB or BCB is getting. And, the renegade three will have their own league - either way.

Problem is cricket economy, not revenue distribution. The solution is there as well - if you see a FIFA press conference ... in backdrop you’ll see logos of Mercedes, Opel, Range Rover, Volvo, BMW, Toyota, Honda, GM, Chrysler, Hyundai, Boeing, Bombardier, Embraer, Air Bus, Microsoft, Cisco, Tata Consultant, Vodafone, AT&T, T-Mobile, Orange, NTT Docomo, Bharti Airtel, Telefonica Mexicana, Walmart, Tesco, BP, Chevron, PetroBras, Banco Santander, PariBas, Barclays, SCB, TD, RBC, Chase, Citi NA, Aviva, ManuLife, ALICO, Thales, Raytheon, Amazon, Alibaba, Coca-Cola, Pepsi, Champari, Stella Artois, RedBull..... then the distribution can be balanced. Problem starts when that backdrop is filled 100% by Tata Indicom, Reliance, Sahara, Wipro, Bharti, Rainham Steel, Jaguar, Anset, Quantas, AliANZ, Specsaver.....

 

[tyron_woodley]

Except the BCCI aren't generating anything, it just happens to be the market in their country that is. The ICCs revenue should primarily be focused on the development of cricket globally, not on allowing the BCCI to double dip on the benefits of their market size. It's a crazy model that rightfully isn't seen in other major sports.

They are and that's why they can take whatever they generate. It's pretty much the same model in Spanish la liga, same in UFC and many other sports.

 

[par]

By demanding greater share from ICC generated money even though they have more than enough can can even generate more if they want to. They did that knowing full well this will push smaller board cricketers more towards T20 only.

There were 3 boards getting more many than the rest of the boards and yet you are accusing only one board. May I know why?

 

[Ab Fan]

Lol at Pakistani fans having this victim mentality.

 

[Mesozoic]

Cricket economy isn’t balanced and that’s the mother of all problems.

For the sake of saying, say India is generating 65% revenue & they are asking for 65% - so net net no change - get India out of ICC, on papers, account is balanced.

But then, today was Indian business houses are outbidding other country brands, tomorrow British brands will do the same, but at a lower amount - then ECB will demand 65%..... take out England then, on papers not much change again - but now CA will demand 65% ..... take out Aussies as well. After that, what’ll remain, split it equally - it won’t be more than what now PCB or BCB is getting. And, the renegade three will have their own league - either way.

Problem is cricket economy, not revenue distribution. The solution is there as well - if you see a FIFA press conference ... in backdrop you’ll see logos of Mercedes, Opel, Range Rover, Volvo, BMW, Toyota, Honda, GM, Chrysler, Hyundai, Boeing, Bombardier, Embraer, Air Bus, Microsoft, Cisco, Tata Consultant, Vodafone, AT&T, T-Mobile, Orange, NTT Docomo, Bharti Airtel, Telefonica Mexicana, Walmart, Tesco, BP, Chevron, PetroBras, Banco Santander, PariBas, Barclays, SCB, TD, RBC, Chase, Citi NA, Aviva, ManuLife, ALICO, Thales, Raytheon, Amazon, Alibaba, Coca-Cola, Pepsi, Champari, Stella Artois, RedBull..... then the distribution can be balanced. Problem starts when that backdrop is filled 100% by Tata Indicom, Reliance, Sahara, Wipro, Bharti, Rainham Steel, Jaguar, Anset, Quant
as, AliANZ, Specsaver.....

This. Summed up brilliantly.

 

[Hasan123]

Why can't these 2 teams do their talking on the cricket field lol?

 

[HitWicket]

They are and that's why they can take whatever they generate. It's pretty much the same model in Spanish la liga, same in UFC and many other sports.

Funny you've brought up La Liga where half the broadcast revenue is split equally between all the teams and the other half is distributed proportional to recent on the pitch performance... Its even a similar situation in the BCCIs own IPL where payouts are performance based.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Any money that is generated trough ICC should be distributed equally doesn't matter where most of the money is coming from. BCCI should keep the money from bilateral and IPL etc.

India have all of a sudden become a better team (marginally) than past in the time other boards are struggling and regressing.

Why equally distrubuted? Why be unfair to boards who are generating more revenue?

 

[cricketjoshila]

I think I've already asked you this but you bet around the bush as usual.

What "sabotaging" did the BCCI do exactly? You seem to be quite adamant on that.

No sabotaging. Just his complex that refuses to acknowledge India's success.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Funny you've brought up La Liga where half the broadcast revenue is split equally between all the teams and the other half is distributed proportional to recent on the pitch performance... Its even a similar situation in the BCCIs own IPL where payouts are performance based.

IPL team revenue distribution is performance based? Really?

Can you link me to a source on this?

 

[tyron_woodley]

Funny you've brought up La Liga where half the broadcast revenue is split equally between all the teams and the other half is distributed proportional to recent on the pitch performance... Its even a similar situation in the BCCIs own IPL where payouts are performance based.

Uh no. 2 teams that generate most viewership gets a higher percentage of the revenue stream. also there is a significant bonus factor for teams who are historically recognised as top teams like Madrid and Barca.

wrong again
Serie a revenue stream is also distributed similarly.

India are just taking what they deserve because they clearly have earned the right to do so.

You are entitled to earn more I'd you generate more revenue for the company. It's quite simple.

Stop crying and just focus on promoting your product better.

 

[HitWicket]

IPL team revenue distribution is performance based? Really?

Can you link me to a source on this?

Currently the distribution to franchises is 50% of the rights for the tournament of which 90% is split equally between the franchises and the final 10% is performance based.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/29619438/how-vivo-absence-ipl-move-uae-hurt-franchises.

From the 2018 season onwards, under the new rights deals, franchises started to receive 50% share of the central-rights income, which amounts to about INR 1750 crore (approx. $273 million) which is split across the eight franchises - that is, about INR 218 crore (approx. $34 million) per team. Of this, 45% is the standard franchise share while the remaining 5% is variable based on where each franchise finishes at the end of the season.

Source: https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/22919685/ipl-lays-revenue-sharing-plan-franchises

Uh no. 2 teams that generate most viewership gets a higher percentage of the revenue stream.

Because they also happen to be the 2 teams who have performed best over the last 5 seasons...

also there is a significant bonus factor for teams who are historically recognised as top teams like Madrid and Barca.

There is no bonus factor for 'teams recognised as top teams'. There are bonuses for factors such as attendance and total season ticket sales but the vast majority of the money is distributed either equally or based on performance.

wrong again
Serie a revenue stream is also distributed similarly.

Just like La Liga Serie A also distribute half their revenue equally. 30% is then performance based with the remaining 20% based on your number of supporters.

The premier league has a similar system as well with half the revenue distributed equally, 25% distributed based on performance and 25% on how many games you have televised in the UK. The overseas TV rights are treated separately on top of that and shared equally between the clubs.

In the Bundesliga 98% of the distribution is performance based with the remaining 2% distributed based on the opportunities given to local youngsters.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Currently the distribution to franchises is 50% of the rights for the tournament of which 90% is split equally between the franchises and the final 10% is performance based.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/29619438/how-vivo-absence-ipl-move-uae-hurt-franchises.






Because they also happen to be the 2 teams who have performed best over the last 5 seasons...



There is no bonus factor for 'teams recognised as top teams'. There are bonuses for factors such as attendance and total season ticket sales but the vast majority of the money is distributed either equally or based on performance.



Just like La Liga Serie A also distribute half their revenue equally. 30% is then performance based with the remaining 20% based on your number of supporters.

The premier league has a similar system as well with half the revenue distributed equally, 25% distributed based on performance and 25% on how many games you have televised in the UK. The overseas TV rights are treated separately on top of that and shared equally between the clubs.

In the Bundesliga 98% of the distribution is performance based with the remaining 2% distributed based on the opportunities given to local youngsters.

Serie a awards bonuses to historically high ranked teams. There is a coefficient factor that's included in the revenue distribution system.

So yes the more popular teams and the historically higher ranked teams earn more

Also Australia and India have been top teams historically in tests. England I agree shouldn't be in that list but they did hold the number 1 status in the past.

anyway that's not even the point.

India generates more viewership and more renenue for ICC via sponsors etc so they take their fair share which is totally acceptable.

besides even if you factor in performances, India deserve their shares as they have been a top side.

India totally deserve every penny. Infact they should be earning more.

 

[Pakhs]

There were 3 boards getting more many than the rest of the boards and yet you are accusing only one board. May I know why?

Because that's the board who is most powerful and actually tired to bully everyone to accept the terms and also resisted the most.

 

[Pakhs]

That’s not true at all - PCB accepted to play two Test Ashes warmer as early as 2000, when there was no BCCI bullying. Both PAK & WIN cricket has been destroyed by the chase of T20 because its easy money (on & off the game I must say), and the opportunist Administrators found it the easiest way to make some quick bucks when they are in charge. Recently SRL has joined the party, otherwise between 2000-2015 they have played many more Tests than PAK or WIN, yet could survive.

Despite the team’s capacity and the prospects of financial returns, BCB has prioritised Test cricket as much as possible- last year replaced 3 T20s with a Test in NZ tour, which eventually was cancelled for that mosque attack, this year would have played another 3 in planned SRL tour.... NZ will play 3 Tests in their next BD trip.... and still BCB will survive. Now, CV situation has brought every boards in knees, therefore can’t say much, but the FTP of BCB that is few months back for next 3-4 years, if 75% of that materialises, BD is likely to play more Tests than PAK.

No one is pushing anyone, or other way everyone is pushing their weight on others - he who is heavier will press harder. Today, I read lots of rubbish from British based PAK posters about IPLs monopoly - you guys should see your face in mirror first - 23 years back, Wasim & Waquar were not given 3 weeks window by English Counties to play the Tournament on Indian Independence Cup (Anwar’s 194 tournament). British Counties made sure for 100+ years, there won’t be any cricket globally between May to August and biggest losers were WIN that time who had to squeeze their season to three months, SRL would have been as well had they got 5-6 players in Counties - now BCB is forced to bring their premium tours in full monsoon - June to September.... it’ll remain as such unless BCB forces their way to take some pie of that window between October to April.

Your points are not clear at all.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Because that's the board who is most powerful and actually tired to bully everyone to accept the terms and also resisted the most.

Not true at all. England used to do that to all of us in 80s and 90s. Aussies too. We are just returning the favour to them. We have been nothing but considerate of all Asian teams when it comes to revenue distribution.

Infact Asian teams should all be thanking bcci for helping them all out and taking a stand for the Asian community vs the tyranny of the Anglos Saxons in the past.