"I expect Pakistan board will arrange neutral venue for us as they did for WI" : BCB's Nazmul Hassan

[ahsan17]

One of the threads on here had the bcb official say that some of the players were complaining of staying for longer than a week in Pakistan due to being confined to the hotel.
Another thread had the SL chief complaining about being locked up in the hotel.

You had mentioned that doing all this does not feel like a safe environment to the players. The players themselves mentioned it actually makes them feel safe. Being confined to a hotel and wanting to go out is not the same as not feeling safe.

Yes if a touring side come to Pakistan, then they would want this level of security due to the current climate in Pakistan. However, most teams would ideally like a 'normal' environment to tour in, with 'normal'security. They would like to go to restaurants and shopping malls and bazaars etc. The SL team did go to a shopping mall but i expect they were escorted by a heavy security prescence.
Furthermore, my cousins own shops in the shopping precinct close to gadaffi stadium and are forced to close their shops when an international or psl game.is on, costing them losses in lakhs of rupees, with no compensation!

It's either this or no cricket in Pakistan, so the option is clear for the PCB. The residual effect of the 2009 attacks on the SL team means teams will ask for this if they tour Pakistan.

 

[Sunny_majoka]

One of the threads on here had the bcb official say that some of the players were complaining of staying for longer than a week in Pakistan due to being confined to the hotel.
Another thread had the SL chief complaining about being locked up in the hotel.
Yes if a touring side come to Pakistan, then they would want this level of security due to the current climate in Pakistan. However, most teams would ideally like a 'normal' environment to tour in, with 'normal'security. They would like to go to restaurants and shopping malls and bazaars etc. The SL team did go to a shopping mall but i expect they were escorted by a heavy security prescence.
Furthermore, my cousins own shops in the shopping precinct close to gadaffi stadium and are forced to close their shops when an international or psl game.is on, costing them losses in lakhs of rupees, with no compensation!

PCB is taking baby steps, this is slow process and these things are part of that process

 

[Captain caveman]

You had mentioned that doing all this does not feel like a safe environment to the players. The players themselves mentioned it actually makes them feel safe. Being confined to a hotel and wanting to go out is not the same as not feeling safe.



It's either this or no cricket in Pakistan, so the option is clear for the PCB. The residual effect of the 2009 attacks on the SL team means teams will ask for this if they tour Pakistan.

I gave you two examples which shows international teams are not happy with being locked up in the hotel - bcb official and the SL chief.

Yes i appreciate this is the only way for the pcb to hold matches at the moment in Pakistan, which is very unfortunate but it does not mean international teams will agree to tour. Like i said, i only see SL and Zimbabwe willing to tour for tests and WI for a short 1 week white ball tour.

 

[ahsan17]

I gave you two examples which shows international teams are not happy with being locked up in the hotel - bcb official and the SL chief.

And my point is they didn't feel unsafe because of that, as you had mentioned earlier. To the contrary in fact, they felt safe because of it. It was inconvenient and not ideal, but it was not unsafe.

Yes i appreciate this is the only way for the pcb to hold matches at the moment in Pakistan, which is very unfortunate but it does not mean international teams will agree to tour. Like i said, i only see SL and Zimbabwe willing to tour for tests and WI for a short 1 week white ball tour.

This is yet to be seen. It wasn't long ago people were saying there's no way WI will tour, or SL won't tour, then SL will only play T20 and ODI. Things change, so we'll see how it goes. The entire PSL happening in Pakistan is a big deal, and that will immensely bring back confidence.

 

[Captain caveman]

And my point is they didn't feel unsafe because of that, as you had mentioned earlier. To the contrary in fact, they felt safe because of it. It was inconvenient and not ideal, but it was not unsafe.



This is yet to be seen. It wasn't long ago people were saying there's no way WI will tour, or SL won't tour, then SL will only play T20 and ODI. Things change, so we'll see how it goes. The entire PSL happening in Pakistan is a big deal, and that will immensely bring back confidence.

I understand what you are saying, but i disagree with it. You cannot say something is safe when you have to have levels of security usually only deployed for world leaders . Your whole argument is a contradiction. Its safe due to all this over the top security, then if its safe, why do we need this over the top security ?- Because its NOT SAFE!

As far as other countries touring, i dont see it happening any time soon,.but only Allah knows!

 

[MenInG]

I understand what you are saying, but i disagree with it. You cannot say something is safe when you have to have levels of security usually only deployed for world leaders . Your whole argument is a contradiction. Its safe due to all this over the top security, then if its safe, why do we need this over the top security ?- Because its NOT SAFE!

As far as other countries touring, i dont see it happening any time soon,.but only Allah knows!

Understand this.

That level of security is provided to help teams ease their fears. It does not imply Pakistan is unsafe as millions go about their life in the country every day without being mowed down by blood thirsty terrorists. Because if that was the case, there would be a skirmish waiting at each street corner for team buses.

 

[Captain caveman]

Understand this.

That level of security is provided to help teams ease their fears. It does not imply Pakistan is unsafe as millions go about their life in the country every day without being mowed down by blood thirsty terrorists. Because if that was the case, there would be a skirmish waiting at each street corner for team buses.

Obviously, the mentality of Pakistanis and emiratis is different to the mentality of people in the west. In the west we see such high security and logically think there must be a reason for it, i.e. theres a security risk.
In Pakistan, the thinking is that unless something bad happens, everything is safe, regardless of the over the top security in place to keep things safe.

Furthermore, Western cricketers would be seen as high value targets, achieving international news headlines for the terrorist group, whereas targeting locals would only achieve local Pakistani news and less publicity for the terrorists.

Apparently, terrorists attacks are still occurring in northern parts of Pakistan, from what one poster said and all it will take is for a few of these terrorists to infiltrate the security cordon.and Pakistani cricket will be dead for ever!

 

[Shafi]

How about play in Christchurch, before NZ series? We will have enough practice before facing NZ.

 

[Saj]

With all due respect, if the PCB allows the BCB to push them around, then there is no hope and other Boards will follow suit.

 

[Captain caveman]

With all due respect, if the PCB allows the BCB to push them around, then there is no hope and other Boards will follow suit.

With all due respect, i think its a waste of time pursuing bangladesh, the bcb are not a friendly board to the pcb.
The pcb should concentrate on friendly boards, like they did with SL.
I suggest the pcb concentrate on WI, SA and Zimbabwe.
2 tests in 2 weeks.
Obviously, if mickey was still in charge, we would have had a better chance of convincing SA board, but lets see what happens.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Seems abundantly clear that Bangladesh don't want to play the series. They are only interested in politicizing this matter and I hope PCB take them to court and sue them for every penny lost. BCB has set the precedent by sending their women's team, U-16 team and from what it seems will even be sending their T20 team

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

With all due respect, i think its a waste of time pursuing bangladesh, the bcb are not a friendly board to the pcb.
The pcb should concentrate on friendly boards, like they did with SL.
I suggest the pcb concentrate on WI, SA and Zimbabwe.
2 tests in 2 weeks.
Obviously, if mickey was still in charge, we would have had a better chance of convincing SA board, but lets see what happens.

Why though? If this series doesn't go through it will be money lost for the PCB that was promised to it through the FTP. Bangladesh is playing petty politics and politicizing cricket. Either they should take a stand like India and say we don't want to play Pakistan or they should stop making an issue out of this to settle old scores.

 

[Usman Chadda]

Seems abundantly clear that Bangladesh don't want to play the series. They are only interested in politicizing this matter and I hope PCB take them to court and sue them for every penny lost. BCB has set the precedent by sending their women's team, U-16 team and from what it seems will even be sending their T20 team

PCB cannot, and should not, sue them. Will we sue CA or ECB if they don't send their teams to Pakistan? Should be taken care of through dialogue.

In any case, PCB should outright refuse to host Bangladesh in the UAE.

 

[sweep_shot]

Why though? If this series doesn't go through it will be money lost for the PCB that was promised to it through the FTP. Bangladesh is playing petty politics and politicizing cricket. Either they should take a stand like India and say we don't want to play Pakistan or they should stop making an issue out of this to settle old scores.

Last time PCB tried lawsuit, they lost it and ended up paying $1.6-million in fines: https://www.business-standard.com/a...-compensation-to-bcci-pcb-119031800779_1.html.

Lawsuit can backfire as ICC never force any team to tour Pakistan. This needs to be resolved with dialogues and diplomacy. If PCB and BCB can't find a common ground, ICC needs to give the final verdict.

I think one of the two things will likely happen (if a deal is not reached):

1) ICC rules that BD must play in Pakistan or forfeit 120 points.
2) ICC rules that Pakistan must host BD in neutral country or forfeit 120 points.

Whatever ICC decides should be the final verdict.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

PCB cannot, and should not, sue them. Will we sue CA or ECB if they don't send their teams to Pakistan? Should be taken care of through dialogue.

In any case, PCB should outright refuse to host Bangladesh in the UAE.

If Bangladesh declines to play in Pakistan then that is where this thing is likely going because as you have already said hosting in UAE is not an option.

As for the Australia, England series; sorry but PCB will have to cede to their demands if they decline to tour Pakistan. PCB cannot go against any of the Big 3 boards, that's just the reality. But it should atleast stand it's ground against the other boards. And regarding Bangladesh they have already set a precedent by sending their other teams which begs the question of whether they value the life of an U-16 or women's team player less than that of a test player.

 

[Mirpur express]

When the minnows are on a power trip....

 

[sweep_shot]

When the minnows are on a power trip....��

Name calling doesn't help. You need to drop the arrogance and look at the reality.

 

[cricketjoshila]

If Bangladesh declines to play in Pakistan then that is where this thing is likely going because as you have already said hosting in UAE is not an option.

As for the Australia, England series; sorry but PCB will have to cede to their demands if they decline to tour Pakistan. PCB cannot go against any of the Big 3 boards, that's just the reality. But it should atleast stand it's ground against the other boards. And regarding Bangladesh they have already set a precedent by sending their other teams which begs the question of whether they value the life of an U-16 or women's team player less than that of a test player.

How do you justify in a court of law that, BD cannot be hosted in UAE and SENA can be?

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

How do you justify in a court of law that, BD cannot be hosted in UAE and SENA can be?

There will be not be any need to justify such a thing in a court of law since SENA are not expected to tour Pakistan till 2021-22.

 

[FreePalestine]

There will be not be any need to justify such a thing in a court of law since SENA are not expected to tour Pakistan till 2021-22.

Exactly. This is critical information. I actually am hopeful that these boards, which do not have geo-political enmity against Pakistan, will tour Pakistan. As I have already said, BD’s refusal is clearly NOT a security issue, it is geo-political. And there are too many facts (BCB youth, women’s tours, 20 players signing up for PSL, being willing to send their team for T20’s) to suggest that it is a security issue. This is nothing but a geo-political issue and Bangladesh are bringing politics into cricket. Sad sight, especially for Pakistani fans who have been deprived of cricket for so long. For everyone who is saying Pak are being arrogant, I really don’t understand. The only arrogance I have heard in these statements (from boards, not ex-cricketers) has been from Bangladesh. Mani’s statements were utterly professional, clear and logical, whereas BD board sounds arrogant and nonsensical in a lot of different ways. BD are in the wrong in moral terms.

 

[cricketjoshila]

There will be not be any need to justify such a thing in a court of law since SENA are not expected to tour Pakistan till 2021-22.

You are expecting all court cases and appeals to be over within 1 year?

 

[LordJames]

Bangladesh and its people occupy a different place in the mind-set of Pakistani people for many reasons, some related to this issue are as follows:


1) Bangladesh was previously East-Pakistan so many Pakistanees still view
Bangladesh (fondly) as little brother, this feeling and view is not reciprocated

2) Bangladesh is a Muslim country so in the Pakistani psyche, people are looking for assistance in their hour of need in name of common religion, and this brotherly feeling is also not reciprocated

3) Bangladesh and its cricket was helped by Pakistan and there is expectation that they will reciprocate in Pakistan’s hour of need

Bangladesh is doing nothing different to Sri Lanka and Pakistani people did not react in the same manner, it is clear that the feeling is more personal as compared to Sri Lanka. Sri Lanka has deep military ties with Pakistan and there is leverage which can be pulled with Sri Lanka but Pakistan has no such leverage with Bangladesh. The Government of Bangladesh is dead set against Pakistan and they will leave no stone unturned to humiliated Pakistan, it is for their domestic consumption. The electorate needs to be shown that Bangladesh is the “Boss” and mighty Pakistanees have to “beg” for favours.

I am Sorry to spell this out for naïve people of Pakistan maybe because many people of Pakistan have never encountered people of Bangladesh and Sri Lanka and are unable to analyse the reaction of both countries towards Pakistan. The only way to get Bangladesh to visit Pakistan is via subterfuge and/or legal coercion. The subterfuge would be to let the T20 series (and then PSL) go through and that pretty much demolishes the argument the argument that Pakistan in unsafe. Once both of these events have been held successfully, Pakistan is in a very strong diplomatic and legal position, Bangladesh will have to visit or forfeit their points.
But this strategy requires understanding the psyche of your opponent, patience, perseverance and determination and PCB lacks it. In my opinion, Pakistan foreign office and diplomatic expertise should be roped in for assistance.

My message is not politically or religiously motivated but it’s a calm, rational assessment of the situation and I hope that it will not be deleted. When it comes to Bangladesh, nothing can be viewed through the prism of sports or Cricket because it isn’t!

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

You are expecting all court cases and appeals to be over within 1 year?

The last case similar to this hypothetical case (BCCI-PCB) lasted just over a year.

 

[khan_aa]

Bangladesh and its people occupy a different place in the mind-set of Pakistani people for many reasons, some related to this issue are as follows:


1) Bangladesh was previously East-Pakistan so many Pakistanees still view
Bangladesh (fondly) as little brother, this feeling and view is not reciprocated

2) Bangladesh is a Muslim country so in the Pakistani psyche, people are looking for assistance in their hour of need in name of common religion, and this brotherly feeling is also not reciprocated

3) Bangladesh and its cricket was helped by Pakistan and there is expectation that they will reciprocate in Pakistan’s hour of need

Bangladesh is doing nothing different to Sri Lanka and Pakistani people did not react in the same manner, it is clear that the feeling is more personal as compared to Sri Lanka. Sri Lanka has deep military ties with Pakistan and there is leverage which can be pulled with Sri Lanka but Pakistan has no such leverage with Bangladesh. The Government of Bangladesh is dead set against Pakistan and they will leave no stone unturned to humiliated Pakistan, it is for their domestic consumption. The electorate needs to be shown that Bangladesh is the “Boss” and mighty Pakistanees have to “beg” for favours.

I am Sorry to spell this out for naïve people of Pakistan maybe because many people of Pakistan have never encountered people of Bangladesh and Sri Lanka and are unable to analyse the reaction of both countries towards Pakistan. The only way to get Bangladesh to visit Pakistan is via subterfuge and/or legal coercion. The subterfuge would be to let the T20 series (and then PSL) go through and that pretty much demolishes the argument the argument that Pakistan in unsafe. Once both of these events have been held successfully, Pakistan is in a very strong diplomatic and legal position, Bangladesh will have to visit or forfeit their points.
But this strategy requires understanding the psyche of your opponent, patience, perseverance and determination and PCB lacks it. In my opinion, Pakistan foreign office and diplomatic expertise should be roped in for assistance.

My message is not politically or religiously motivated but it’s a calm, rational assessment of the situation and I hope that it will not be deleted. When it comes to Bangladesh, nothing can be viewed through the prism of sports or Cricket because it isn’t!

your message is infact politically and religiously motivated.

you are acting as if bangladesh is australia of 2000 and as if pakistan is threatened by them. believe me, they are not.
like how bangladesh was humilated in that final world cup group stages match, they will be humiliated in test matches. the only match winner was shakib and he is banned.

Honestly, i am not sure what all this fuss is about. in your 20 years of test cricket, you guys have won a handful of tests. havent won any significant matches or series abroad.

bangladesh needs to improve its cricket, and pakistan although not the strongest team given no domestic cricket in ten years, is definitely superior than bangladesh - esp at home.

i would understand if they were champions or world beaters, but they are not. they need to let go of their arrogance, accept the ICC schedule, and tour pakistan to fulfil their cricket commitments. it does not have to be political - pakistan isnt making it political, you guys are.

thanks.

 

[sweep_shot]

i would understand if they were champions or world beaters, but they are not. they need to let go of their arrogance, accept the ICC schedule, and tour pakistan to fulfil their cricket commitments. it does not have to be political - pakistan isnt making it political, you guys are.

thanks.

This has nothing to do with cricket abilities. But, whatever floats your boat I guess.

This attitude is the reason why BCB is not being responsive. Drop the attitude and arrogance and maybe tour can happen.

 

[Slim]

Bangladesh and its people occupy a different place in the mind-set of Pakistani people for many reasons, some related to this issue are as follows:


1) Bangladesh was previously East-Pakistan so many Pakistanees still view
Bangladesh (fondly) as little brother, this feeling and view is not reciprocated

2) Bangladesh is a Muslim country so in the Pakistani psyche, people are looking for assistance in their hour of need in name of common religion, and this brotherly feeling is also not reciprocated

3) Bangladesh and its cricket was helped by Pakistan and there is expectation that they will reciprocate in Pakistan’s hour of need

Bangladesh is doing nothing different to Sri Lanka and Pakistani people did not react in the same manner, it is clear that the feeling is more personal as compared to Sri Lanka. Sri Lanka has deep military ties with Pakistan and there is leverage which can be pulled with Sri Lanka but Pakistan has no such leverage with Bangladesh. The Government of Bangladesh is dead set against Pakistan and they will leave no stone unturned to humiliated Pakistan, it is for their domestic consumption. The electorate needs to be shown that Bangladesh is the “Boss” and mighty Pakistanees have to “beg” for favours.

I am Sorry to spell this out for naïve people of Pakistan maybe because many people of Pakistan have never encountered people of Bangladesh and Sri Lanka and are unable to analyse the reaction of both countries towards Pakistan. The only way to get Bangladesh to visit Pakistan is via subterfuge and/or legal coercion. The subterfuge would be to let the T20 series (and then PSL) go through and that pretty much demolishes the argument the argument that Pakistan in unsafe. Once both of these events have been held successfully, Pakistan is in a very strong diplomatic and legal position, Bangladesh will have to visit or forfeit their points.
But this strategy requires understanding the psyche of your opponent, patience, perseverance and determination and PCB lacks it. In my opinion, Pakistan foreign office and diplomatic expertise should be roped in for assistance.

My message is not politically or religiously motivated but it’s a calm, rational assessment of the situation and I hope that it will not be deleted. When it comes to Bangladesh, nothing can be viewed through the prism of sports or Cricket because it isn’t!

Sensible post and the only diplomatic solution.

 

[Shafi]

Just cancel the series. Leave it to ICC for point distribution whether we get full 120 points or both team gets 60 points. Either way BD don't mind to cancel the series. They are in very good book of BCCI and most likely they don't want any one for financial stability just like Afghanistan. Its not like we will be in final or even top 4.

We should concentrate to build relation with Australia, NZ, England, S Africa along with WI, SL and Zimbabwe. We will be able to play enough tests in a year.

 

[Captain caveman]

Why though? If this series doesn't go through it will be money lost for the PCB that was promised to it through the FTP. Bangladesh is playing petty politics and politicizing cricket. Either they should take a stand like India and say we don't want to play Pakistan or they should stop making an issue out of this to settle old scores.

Bcb are prepared to play Pakistan in the uae, pcb keep on refusing, pcb cant force boards to play in.Pakistan, it can only try to persuade boards with diplomacy, something lacking when dealing with bcb, by the pcb. Thats why i say forget it and concentrate on friendly boards who would actually like to help Pakistan cricket.
The ICC will not support pcb as that will leave them open to law suits if God forbid, something bad were to occur
So just like the tennis, where the Pakistan fed was ordered to play on a neutral.ground against india,.the ICC will.order the pcb to play on a neutral.ground or forfeit.the test championship points, which will get awarded to bangladesh.

 

[Usman Chadda]

Bcb are prepared to play Pakistan in the uae, pcb keep on refusing, pcb cant force boards to play in.Pakistan, it can only try to persuade boards with diplomacy, something lacking when dealing with bcb, by the pcb. Thats why i say forget it and concentrate on friendly boards who would actually like to help Pakistan cricket.
The ICC will not support pcb as that will leave them open to law suits if God forbid, something bad were to occur
So just like the tennis, where the Pakistan fed was ordered to play on a neutral.ground against india,.the ICC will.order the pcb to play on a neutral.ground or forfeit.the test championship points, which will get awarded to bangladesh.

Say what? Whatever the case, points will most certainly be NOT awarded to Bangladesh. The onus is on Bangladesh to give valid reasons for not touring Pakistan, while Pakistan is willing to host them. UAE or any other neutral venue doesn't even come into the picture.

For the record, I doubt ICC would and should award points to Pakistan aswell. ICC getting involved here will create a bigger mess than the one at present.

 

[khan_aa]

This has nothing to do with cricket abilities. But, whatever floats your boat I guess.

This attitude is the reason why BCB is not being responsive. Drop the attitude and arrogance and maybe tour can happen.

ummm what attitude? the 'attitude' is perfectly fine since you are not fulfilling your obligations despite security that is provided. you guys arent australia or england or any amazing team. you guys are mentally weak as throughout your history, you have lost matches from winning positions because you cant handle the pressure. that is truth - not some 'attitude'.

be respectful, and fulfill your commitments. there is no excuse or time for drama. if you arent going to come, let us know - we will schedule different matches to fulfil our schedule and ask ICC to either forefeit your points, or you pay for a neutral venue of our liking. im sure england will be nice for us and our fast bowlers.

thanks

 

[Captain caveman]

Say what? Whatever the case, points will most certainly be NOT awarded to Bangladesh. The onus is on Bangladesh to give valid reasons for not touring Pakistan, while Pakistan is willing to host them. UAE or any other neutral venue doesn't even come into the picture.

For the record, I doubt ICC would and should award points to Pakistan aswell. ICC getting involved here will create a bigger mess than the one at present.

Its just what i THINK will happen,.i dont know what WILL happen.

 

[Captain caveman]

Its just what i THINK will happen,.i dont know what WILL happen.

Usually the tour just gets cancelled as bcb refuses to play in Pakistan and pcb refuse to host bangladesh in the uae.
And the ICC does not get involved.
But the situation is more complicated this time as test championship points are at stake. Therefore, the ICC have no choice but to get involved and the safest option for the ICC is to order the matches to be played on a neutral ground, as they do not want to take any legal responsiblity for ordering the matches to be played in Pak.
If Pak agrees fine and the points will he determined by the match results or if Pcb refuse then the ICC will awarsld Bdesh the points.

 

[Harpoon]

Usually the tour just gets cancelled as bcb refuses to play in Pakistan and pcb refuse to host bangladesh in the uae.
And the ICC does not get involved.
But the situation is more complicated this time as test championship points are at stake. Therefore, the ICC have no choice but to get involved and the safest option for the ICC is to order the matches to be played on a neutral ground, as they do not want to take any legal responsiblity for ordering the matches to be played in Pak.
If Pak agrees fine and the points will he determined by the match results or if Pcb refuse then the ICC will awarsld Bdesh the points.

Security is not an issue anymore. ICC officials come and BCB has also said security is not an issue.
Given that, neutral venue is out of the question. Just as it would be if a team touring Bangladesh or India were to demand hosting a match in UAE. Would BCB agree to paying for a holiday in Dubai next time Pakistan tours and demands a series in UAE?

 

[Captain caveman]

Security is not an issue anymore. ICC officials come and BCB has also said security is not an issue.
Given that, neutral venue is out of the question. Just as it would be if a team touring Bangladesh or India were to demand hosting a match in UAE. Would BCB agree to paying for a holiday in Dubai next time Pakistan tours and demands a series in UAE?

The bcb official's response was all about security and players and their families not wanting to come to Pakistan. As well as the foreign coaches not wanting to come to Pakistan for security reasons.

You guys just dont get what a safe and secure environment is? Its not one which requires the partial shutdown of a city and presidential security!

 

[Ronaldo7]

The bcb official's response was all about security and players and their families not wanting to come to Pakistan. As well as the foreign coaches not wanting to come to Pakistan for security reasons.

You guys just dont get what a safe and secure environment is? Its not one which requires the partial shutdown of a city and presidential security!

So now there's a problem with us giving them presidential security??

Lol what??

They can still go to restaurants, malls, parks etc.

So what is the problem?

 

[Ahmed4472]

The bcb official's response was all about security and players and their families not wanting to come to Pakistan. As well as the foreign coaches not wanting to come to Pakistan for security reasons.

You guys just dont get what a safe and secure environment is? Its not one which requires the partial shutdown of a city and presidential security!

Do you understand 20 players from Bangladesh signed up for PSL that will be entirely held in Pakistan at 4 different cities. Moreover they are agreeing to come to Pakistan for t-20s for shorter duration of time but have a problem with the test matches which will be a longer duration. But again when all these players signed up for PSL draft they knew if signed up they will be staying in Pakistan for entire duration of PSL which is way more than t-20s and test matches combined.

Can you still not figure out the hypocrisy shown here. I’d be very obliged if you can explain this is not hypocrisy and something else.

 

[MRSN]

one thing people clearly need to look at how BCB wants to enjoy supermacy like PCB used to do as a 2nd top board in Asia before SL attack. If BCB tours Pak that will make other nations tour as well which will probably be start of PCB'S golden days.

This is a very clever move by BCB which has nothing to do with the security. Security teams of ICC and BD already cleared Pakistan to be safe.

 

[MRSN]

The bcb official's response was all about security and players and their families not wanting to come to Pakistan. As well as the foreign coaches not wanting to come to Pakistan for security reasons.

You guys just dont get what a safe and secure environment is? Its not one which requires the partial shutdown of a city and presidential security!

lol. BD's top players have been visiting Pakistan for PSL, their women team and young men team toured recently. It's nothing to do with players or coaching staff not wanting to go. It's all made up. BCB just doesn't want help PCB because they don't want to lose on all the power they have been enjoying since the 2007.

 

[Captain caveman]

Do you understand 20 players from Bangladesh signed up for PSL that will be entirely held in Pakistan at 4 different cities. Moreover they are agreeing to come to Pakistan for t-20s for shorter duration of time but have a problem with the test matches which will be a longer duration. But again when all these players signed up for PSL draft they knew if signed up they will be staying in Pakistan for entire duration of PSL which is way more than t-20s and test matches combined.

Can you still not figure out the hypocrisy shown here. I’d be very obliged if you can explain this is not hypocrisy and something else.

Obviously theres hypocrisy going on here, but what you fail to understand is people are willing to risk their lives for big bucks, theres no incentive for them to risk their lives for a test series where they will not receive any additional money from the bcb.
This is the hard truth that pak fans cant understand.
Let me make it simple, bangladeshi players owe Pakistan NOTHING, if you really want them to come, put the big bucks on the table. Sad, but thats how the world works.
Having said that, i doubt the pcb has enough bucks to buy over the foreign coaching staff of the bangladesh team.

As far as the t20s are concerned, its bcb trying to not break all ties with the pcb.
The pcb should accept this offer and see if the bangladesh players agree to return for the longer test series, if not, just hold it in uae.

I am still struggling to see how with all the security costs, that playing in Pakistan is cheaper than playing in uae.
Also the effect on the economy of having to partially shut down a city in Pakistan just for a cricket match.
My cousins own shops in the shopping precinct close to gadaffi stadium and lose out on lakho rupees everytime Pakistan hold a match there and recieve no compensation!

 

[Captain caveman]

lol. BD's top players have been visiting Pakistan for PSL, their women team and young men team toured recently. It's nothing to do with players or coaching staff not wanting to go. It's all made up. BCB just doesn't want help PCB because they don't want to lose on all the power they have been enjoying since the 2007.

Possibly.
But i think its more to do with the youngsters and women having no authority to refuse to play in Pakistan, as they will just get replaced by someone else and their career will be over.
The senior mens team have more clout and earn bcb their money, so can dictate to the bcb.
Loke i said above l, the senior players will risk their lives for big bucks but not for free.
The foreign coaches however may not be willing to risk their lives for any amount of money the pcb can offer.

 

[MRSN]

Obviously theres hypocrisy going on here, but what you fail to understand is people are willing to risk their lives for big bucks, theres no incentive for them to risk their lives for a test series where they will not receive any additional money from the bcb.
This is the hard truth that pak fans cant understand.
Let me make it simple, bangladeshi players owe Pakistan NOTHING, if you really want them to come, put the big bucks on the table. Sad, but thats how the world works.
Having said that, i doubt the pcb has enough bucks to buy over the foreign coaching staff of the bangladesh team.

As far as the t20s are concerned, its bcb trying to not break all ties with the pcb.
The pcb should accept this offer and see if the bangladesh players agree to return for the longer test series, if not, just hold it in uae.

I am still struggling to see how with all the security costs, that playing in Pakistan is cheaper than playing in uae.
Also the effect on the economy of having to partially shut down a city in Pakistan just for a cricket match.
My cousins own shops in the shopping precinct close to gadaffi stadium and lose out on lakho rupees everytime Pakistan hold a match there and recieve no compensation!

Risk..You make it look like they are going to be playing in a war zone country where people are dying on daily basis.

Just to be clear do you live in Pakistan?

Just go to youtube and watch some videos of tourists who were walking among people without any security and visiting places all over Pakistan.
Even SL team was visiting malls and went shopping without much security.

 

[MRSN]

Possibly.
But i think its more to do with the youngsters and women having no authority to refuse to play in Pakistan, as they will just get replaced by someone else and their career will be over.
The senior mens team have more clout and earn bcb their money, so can dictate to the bcb.
Loke i said above l, the senior players will risk their lives for big bucks but not for free.
The foreign coaches however may not be willing to risk their lives for any amount of money the pcb can offer.

so the lives of the senior matters more. I just don't get the hypocrisy. Those same senior signed up for PSL.

 

[Captain caveman]

So now there's a problem with us giving them presidential security??

Lol what??

They can still go to restaurants, malls, parks etc.

So what is the problem?

No they are locked in the hotel when not at the ground!

The SL players visited one shopping mall in their tour and i expect they were surrounded by security when doing so.

 

[Captain caveman]

so the lives of the senior matters more. I just don't get the hypocrisy. Those same senior signed up for PSL.

Money and clout!
Its how the world works!

 

[Harpoon]

The bcb official's response was all about security and players and their families not wanting to come to Pakistan.

You guys just dont get what a safe and secure environment is? Its not one which requires the partial shutdown of a city and presidential security!

Here is a direct quote from BCB chief nazmul Hassan from two days back.

"There is no doubt about their security system. The feedback that we got is that the security system is good. Our women’s team and age-level team toured there, and they also gave us a positive feedback about the security."

So security is not an issue. They are being presidential security because they asked for it. If they don't want it, it will be relaxed like it was for SL team who went to shopping malls and went out for dinner to restaurants.

BCB and players family want a free holiday in Dubai. They can have it if BCB pays for it. Not at PCB expense. Those days are gone.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Bcb are prepared to play Pakistan in the uae, pcb keep on refusing, pcb cant force boards to play in.Pakistan, it can only try to persuade boards with diplomacy, something lacking when dealing with bcb, by the pcb. Thats why i say forget it and concentrate on friendly boards who would actually like to help Pakistan cricket.
The ICC will not support pcb as that will leave them open to law suits if God forbid, something bad were to occur
So just like the tennis, where the Pakistan fed was ordered to play on a neutral.ground against india,.the ICC will.order the pcb to play on a neutral.ground or forfeit.the test championship points, which will get awarded to bangladesh.

PCB should still stand their ground. If they accept to play on a neutral venue here other boards will use Bangladesh's example to do the same.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Here is a direct quote from BCB chief nazmul Hassan from two days back.

"There is no doubt about their security system. The feedback that we got is that the security system is good. Our women’s team and age-level team toured there, and they also gave us a positive feedback about the security."

So security is not an issue. They are being presidential security because they asked for it. If they don't want it, it will be relaxed like it was for SL team who went to shopping malls and went out for dinner to restaurants.

BCB and players family want a free holiday in Dubai. They can have it if BCB pays for it. Not at PCB expense. Those days are gone.

Looking at those statements it seems fairly obvious that Bangladesh have no issues with the security, they just have an axe to grind. A shame they are using cricket for this farce. The game does not deserve to be politicized like this.

 

[AFM]

The ICC has approved of Pakistan's security measures.

If Bangladesh refuse to tour, it should count as a forfeit and we should get the WTC points.

 

[Babbar]

BCB and players family want a free holiday in Dubai. They can have it if BCB pays for it. Not at PCB expense. Those days are gone.

BCB or its players do not get a free Dubai holiday. BCB still has to pay for travel, hotel, food, entertainment. In Pak, PCB may arrange Bangla players travel or food (at least some team dinners) but in UAE, BCB will have to pay for everything.

There’s something Pak fans have not realised yet due to historical reasons. Bangladesh and BCB have more money than Pakistan & PCB. If needed, and asked nicely, BCB can pay for Pak teams’ food in UAE, even in Karachi and Lahore. And it will be healthier.

 

[Harpoon]

There’s something Pak fans have not realised yet due to historical reasons. Bangladesh and BCB have more money than Pakistan & PCB. If needed, and asked nicely, BCB can pay for Pak teams’ food in UAE, even in Karachi and Lahore. And it will be healthier.

Can you please provide details of money, assets and income of BCB and PCB?

 

[sweep_shot]

ummm what attitude? the 'attitude' is perfectly fine since you are not fulfilling your obligations despite security that is provided. you guys arent australia or england or any amazing team. you guys are mentally weak as throughout your history, you have lost matches from winning positions because you cant handle the pressure. that is truth - not some 'attitude'.

be respectful, and fulfill your commitments. there is no excuse or time for drama. if you arent going to come, let us know - we will schedule different matches to fulfil our schedule and ask ICC to either forefeit your points, or you pay for a neutral venue of our liking. im sure england will be nice for us and our fast bowlers.

thanks

I guess I am talking to a brick wall.

Feel free to take it up to ICC. Last time you did that, you paid $1.6-million in fines.

I don't know if you actually read the news but BD is open to T20 games first. If everything goes well and players/staffs feel comfortable, they want to return for Tests.

Remember this, if BD doesn't want to come, there is not much PCB can do about it. BCB has great relation with both BCCI and ICC.

 

[shortbread]

Can you please provide details of money, assets and income of BCB and PCB?

BCBs operating income is usd 200 million plus vs pcb's 50 million, rough estimate.

 

[ElRaja]

BCBs operating income is usd 200 million plus vs pcb's 50 million, rough estimate.

in 16/17 bcb net income was around usd 4.5 million according to only financials ive seen.




http://tigercricket.com.bd/wp-conte...te-Audited-Accounts-FY-2011-12-to-2016-17.pdf

 

[Babbar]

Top 10 cricket boards as per a list

https://cricket.yahoo.net/news/top-10-most-affluent-cricket-182300645


It shows Pakistan still ahead at $55mn Operating Income Budget compares to 51mn for BCB. But BCB is moving up while PCB is stagnant. BCB has advantage of a faster growing economy and hosting matches in own country with lower security cost. Pakistan either has to host outside Pakistan or have a truncated tournament with huge security cost. BD also gains from being backed by BCCI and IPL, that PCB lacks.

 

[Babbar]

PCB net income was expected to be 700mn PKR which is less than $5mn. Net Income is basically profits while Operating income is Revenue.

 

[mgtow]

PCB was economically powerhouse back then because they were regularly hosting matches in front of crowds at Pakistan.

That is why PCB is desperate to bring Pakistan cricket back to home. It will put Pakistan cricket on map once again, In Sha ALLAH.

BCCI knows that hence the isolation tactical in place while they can. As for Bangladesh board, who cares.

 

[Bangladesh_Fan]

As for Bangladesh board, who cares.

Seeing the number of threads on Bangladesh touring in this forum and the tweets and news , oh you do care definitely

 

[khan_aa]

Seeing the number of threads on Bangladesh touring in this forum and the tweets and news , oh you do care definitely

We only care about beating you and putting you in your place in cricket at home and returning cricket home to Pakistan. Other than that we could care less.

Unfortunately we can’t play with ourselves even though pak A Vs pak Xi will be far more competitive than the Bdesh series, we just want Babar Azam to score to get his average up like how Indians scored centuries against Zimbabwe. We care about that.

 

[leg-side-flick]

Risk..You make it look like they are going to be playing in a war zone country where people are dying on daily basis.

Just to be clear do you live in Pakistan?

Just go to youtube and watch some videos of tourists who were walking among people without any security and visiting places all over Pakistan.
Even SL team was visiting malls and went shopping without much security.

All the more reason for PCB to agree to play only T20's first and let BD see for themselves as to how safe or unsafe Pak actually is.

Any neutral person will side with BD if they say that we want to take babysteps while touring Pak, SL did the same thing. They started with Women's team, junior team etc and are now looking at T20's first.

 

[Saj]

Seeing the number of threads on Bangladesh touring in this forum and the tweets and news , oh you do care definitely

It's to try to keep up with the ever-changing and comical statements from the people supposedly running BCB.

 

[Shafi]

Top 10 cricket boards as per a list

https://cricket.yahoo.net/news/top-10-most-affluent-cricket-182300645


It shows Pakistan still ahead at $55mn Operating Income Budget compares to 51mn for BCB. But BCB is moving up while PCB is stagnant. BCB has advantage of a faster growing economy and hosting matches in own country with lower security cost. Pakistan either has to host outside Pakistan or have a truncated tournament with huge security cost. BD also gains from being backed by BCCI and IPL, that PCB lacks.

Delusional!!!! Current BD has nothing economy. All the rich people are from government side people. The country unfortunately solely depend of India even for security means people on the border side has to cope Indian BSF atrocities and looting. Last time an India HC was in charge of election of Bangladesh. There is more to it.....

 

[Shafi]

All the more reason for PCB to agree to play only T20's first and let BD see for themselves as to how safe or unsafe Pak actually is.

Any neutral person will side with BD if they say that we want to take babysteps while touring Pak, SL did the same thing. They started with Women's team, junior team etc and are now looking at T20's first.

I hope PCB will not fall in trap. Regardless what PCB does once T20s finish, BD will say the country is not safe and we want to play in neutral value (As they have already said that they want to play test on neutral value )

 

[Usman Chadda]

I hope PCB will not fall in trap. Regardless what PCB does once T20s finish, BD will say the country is not safe and we want to play in neutral value (As they have already said that they want to play test on neutral value )

We should categorically refuse to play in the UAE, while hosting them for the T20Is. I think that's the best way forward. A successful T20 tour could turn the tables on BCB and put them under pressure.

Right now it's just a cat-fight, and nobody comes out the winner. Although BCB's incompetency is making PCB look good here (as if that was ever possible)

 

[MenInG]

It's to try to keep up with the ever-changing and comical statements from the people supposedly running BCB.

Afraid for some, its all too much to take in.

 

[Harpoon]

PCB net income was expected to be 700mn PKR which is less than $5mn. Net Income is basically profits while Operating income is Revenue.

It is good that PCB spends the income on cricket and makes minimal profit. That's it's role.
And good to see you agree that Pak us ahead on operating income despite the fact that it has had to play matches in Dubai. With cricket returning to Pak, the income will get a massive boost and expenditure will reduce.

Regarding BCB tour, yes PCB should agree to T20 tour even if BCB is trying to play political games. It's in best interest of both PCB and BCB to mend relationship. Start with T20 is that's what it takes. No harm in that at all!

 

[MRSN]

It is good that PCB spends the income on cricket and makes minimal profit. That's it's role.
And good to see you agree that Pak us ahead on operating income despite the fact that it has had to play matches in Dubai. With cricket returning to Pak, the income will get a massive boost and expenditure will reduce.

Regarding BCB tour, yes PCB should agree to T20 tour even if BCB is trying to play political games. It's in best interest of both PCB and BCB to mend relationship. Start with T20 is that's what it takes. No harm in that at all!

problem is unlike SL, BCB is already forcing PCB for a neutral venue for tests. They could have said we will review the situation after T20s. Also it's remarkable how things are good for T20 series but not for tests.

 

[Saj]

problem is unlike SL, BCB is already forcing PCB for a neutral venue for tests. They could have said we will review the situation after T20s. Also it's remarkable how things are good for T20 series but not for tests.

But the Bangladesh team will have to stay in 5-star, high-class hotels a bit longer for Test matches.

Life can be tough at times.

 

[aloo paratha]

Just cancel this series and invite Ireland or Zimbabwe instead for a test or 2, throw in some ODIs and T20s too. Will probably be just as competitive anyways.

 

[Babbar]

It is good that PCB spends the income on cricket and makes minimal profit. That's it's role.
And good to see you agree that Pak us ahead on operating income despite the fact that it has had to play matches in Dubai. With cricket returning to Pak, the income will get a massive boost and expenditure will reduce.

Regarding BCB tour, yes PCB should agree to T20 tour even if BCB is trying to play political games. It's in best interest of both PCB and BCB to mend relationship. Start with T20 is that's what it takes. No harm in that at all!

That gap, both operating and net income, is minimal and would have been bridged in 2019 in BCB favour. in the next decade Pakistan will request and even probably beg BCB to tour Pakistan to help the hosts break even.

Be nice to BCB when you still have 3% lead over BCB with a 4-5% gap in GFP growth per year.

 

[aloo paratha]

That gap, both operating and net income, is minimal and would have been bridged in 2019 in BCB favour. in the next decade Pakistan will request and even probably beg BCB to tour Pakistan to help the hosts break even.

Be nice to BCB when you still have 3% lead over BCB with a 4-5% gap in GFP growth per year.

Lol you're delusional. Nobody will fill stadiums to watch Bangladesh play once international cricket in Pakistan becomes a regular occurrence.

With international cricket and PSL coming to Pakistan, PCB will make more money. Hosting games in the UAE was far too expensive.

 

[BaankeJi]

Lol you're delusional. Nobody will fill stadiums to watch Bangladesh play once international cricket in Pakistan becomes a regular occurrence.

With international cricket and PSL coming to Pakistan, PCB will make more money. Hosting games in the UAE was far too expensive.

Why has UAE kept their stadiums so expensive? Is it in line with price in other countries??

 

[SensiblePakFan]

Why has UAE kept their stadiums so expensive? Is it in line with price in other countries??

With other world class stadiums, yes.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Lol you're delusional. Nobody will fill stadiums to watch Bangladesh play once international cricket in Pakistan becomes a regular occurrence.

With international cricket and PSL coming to Pakistan, PCB will make more money. Hosting games in the UAE was far too expensive.

The number of Bangladeshis in gulf will help fill stadiums in UAE. There will be more sponsors from BD in a series than from WI or SL. So money is not the issue.

As many here suggested, for PCB the BCB is a minnow board and they expect them to toe the line and come to Pakistan and not act like other boards. Or may be they think BCB owes them.

Majority of money is made by broadcast deals and sponsors, so for that a match may take place in UAE of Pakistan it wont matter.

Ofcourse the cost of hosting is higher in UAE.

But unless the govt is paying for security, the cost will not be lower in Pakistan too.

 

[mgtow]

The number of Bangladeshis in gulf will help fill stadiums in UAE. There will be more sponsors from BD in a series than from WI or SL. So money is not the issue.

As many here suggested, for PCB the BCB is a minnow board and they expect them to toe the line and come to Pakistan and not act like other boards. Or may be they think BCB owes them.

Majority of money is made by broadcast deals and sponsors, so for that a match may take place in UAE of Pakistan it wont matter.

Ofcourse the cost of hosting is higher in UAE.

But unless the govt is paying for security, the cost will not be lower in Pakistan too.

It wasn’t that long ago that Bangladesh board was begging Indian sponsors to rescue them. Then they had financial issues regarding their leagues which deterred foreign cricketers from participating in those leagues. And local players were stranded waiting for their payments.

Despite of so-called estimated economical reasons, the reality suggested otherwise.

I remember that it was at the time when Indian was constantly sending its team to Bangladesh to rescue Bangladesh board from bankruptcy.

Despite of isolation tactical, unable to host at Pakistan and kept hosting home series at expensive venues aka UAE for years, yet Pakistan cricket survived - increased the revenues year by year.

Bangladesh board that was begging to be rescued at home through the Indian sponsors and Indian cricket cannot be compared to Pakistan cricket that used to be powerhouse in 90s at home still managed to pull sponsors for millions easily at UAE.

I doubt Bangladesh would last a day in uae never mind at Bangladesh where they may need India and their sponsors again. Not to mention their financial issues at their premier leagues are still being ironed out.

 

[mgtow]

Seeing the number of threads on Bangladesh touring in this forum and the tweets and news , oh you do care definitely

It is thread about Bangladesh touring Pakistan hence the thread. If the news wasn’t about Bangladesh touring Pakistan, then the topic on Bangladesh cricket would have been silent in whisper.

It is about Pakistan and hosting home series at Pakistan. Bangladesh just happen to be lucky at this timing that is due to tour Pakistan hence the attention that Bangladesh doesn’t deserve as Bangladesh cricket team is not ready for international test status never mind being hosted at Pakistan.

 

[Babbar]

Lol you're delusional. Nobody will fill stadiums to watch Bangladesh play once international cricket in Pakistan becomes a regular occurrence.

With international cricket and PSL coming to Pakistan, PCB will make more money. Hosting games in the UAE was far too expensive.

PCB will ONLY make money when India tours Pak or other way around. From money perspective; PCB will bleed whether matches happen in Pakistan or Dubai in India’s absence.

Only money PCB makes is that a share of ICC funds, looted from India. No one visits to see test matches in Pak. PCB Income is more or less same as it’s ICC quota. TV revenue remains same in or out of Pak. Security cost is high in Pak but is probably subsidised by Pak Army so does not hit PCB balance sheet.

 

[Babbar]

It wasn’t that long ago that Bangladesh board was begging Indian sponsors to rescue them. Then they had financial issues regarding their leagues which deterred foreign cricketers from participating in those leagues. And local players were stranded waiting for their payments.

Despite of so-called estimated economical reasons, the reality suggested otherwise.

I remember that it was at the time when Indian was constantly sending its team to Bangladesh to rescue Bangladesh board from bankruptcy.

Despite of isolation tactical, unable to host at Pakistan and kept hosting home series at expensive venues aka UAE for years, yet Pakistan cricket survived - increased the revenues year by year.

Bangladesh board that was begging to be rescued at home through the Indian sponsors and Indian cricket cannot be compared to Pakistan cricket that used to be powerhouse in 90s at home still managed to pull sponsors for millions easily at UAE.

I doubt Bangladesh would last a day in uae never mind at Bangladesh where they may need India and their sponsors again. Not to mention their financial issues at their premier leagues are still being ironed out.

So Pak was a powerhouse in 90s, BD was begging BCCI. Ok. Why wallow in the past. Only losers do that.

The reality today is that PCB is begging India to play matches with it, even going to some silly court to force India to play; once refused even to be part of WTC unless India agreed to play tests with Pak; while BCB is an independent board with money and prestige.

If we go sufficiently in the past, any one can prove anything.

The sobering fact is that while PCB was a sort of minor powerhouse in the past, it’s future is dim unless BCCI rescues it which won’t happen in near future at least; while BCB, an emerging poor board in 90s, will become more rich and powerful; with or without BCCI.

 

[MenInG]

PCB will ONLY make money when India tours Pak or other way around. From money perspective; PCB will bleed whether matches happen in Pakistan or Dubai in India’s absence.

Only money PCB makes is that a share of ICC funds, looted from India. No one visits to see test matches in Pak. PCB Income is more or less same as it’s ICC quota. TV revenue remains same in or out of Pak. Security cost is high in Pak but is probably subsidised by Pak Army so does not hit PCB balance sheet.

Pakistan cricket as a product is a market waiting to be brought to life. What we saw recently was a glimpse of its potential. Once matches happen in Pakistan, the earning potential will be realized and UAE will be a distant memory.

Home series for Pakistan is not about pleasing BCB, its about themselves - just like it would be for any other country.

And all this business about PCB getting India's share, please keep for your BJP colleagues, for Pakistan this is what is rightly ours.

 

[aloo paratha]

PCB will ONLY make money when India tours Pak or other way around. From money perspective; PCB will bleed whether matches happen in Pakistan or Dubai in India’s absence.

Only money PCB makes is that a share of ICC funds, looted from India. No one visits to see test matches in Pak. PCB Income is more or less same as it’s ICC quota. TV revenue remains same in or out of Pak. Security cost is high in Pak but is probably subsidised by Pak Army so does not hit PCB balance sheet.

You have no actual numbers to back what you're saying, you're just saying what you want to be true. The PCB isn't stupid. If it was costing the same to host matches in Pakistan and the UAE, they would never push so hard to bring cricket back.

 

[aloo paratha]

So Pak was a powerhouse in 90s, BD was begging BCCI. Ok. Why wallow in the past. Only losers do that.

The reality today is that PCB is begging India to play matches with it, even going to some silly court to force India to play; once refused even to be part of WTC unless India agreed to play tests with Pak; while BCB is an independent board with money and prestige.

If we go sufficiently in the past, any one can prove anything.

The sobering fact is that while PCB was a sort of minor powerhouse in the past, it’s future is dim unless BCCI rescues it which won’t happen in near future at least; while BCB, an emerging poor board in 90s, will become more rich and powerful; with or without BCCI.

What prestige?!?! Do you even know what prestige means?

This whole post is you living in a fantasy land. Snap back to reality please.