"I have never heard about data-based selection, nor is it possible anywhere": Inzamam-ul-Haq

[MenInG]

"I have never heard about data-based selection, nor is it possible anywhere": Inzamam-ul-Haq

Inzamam speaking to the press:

"I have my reservations regarding the new selection committee and a lot of people in cricket circles feel the same way. If they had included cricketers, who would go to the ground and watch players perform, then it would have been better"

"I have never heard about data-based selection, nor is it possible anywhere. Selection should be done based on performances in the ground. Whatever cricket knowledge I have, I don’t think it is a good step"

 

[Bilal7]

He's right. You can't select players based on stats alone.

 

[Rana]

Inzamam speaking to the press:

"I have my reservations regarding the new selection committee and a lot of people in cricket circles feel the same way. If they had included cricketers, who would go to the ground and watch players perform, then it would have been better"

"I have never heard about data-based selection, nor is it possible anywhere. Selection should be done based on performances in the ground. Whatever cricket knowledge I have, I don’t think it is a good step"

Misbah the clown did this with putting Fakhar at 3 and opening with Babar and Rizwan

The result= A MASSIVE HOLE IN PAKISTAN’S MIDDLE ORDER EVER SINCE

 

[sweep_shot]

He's correct.

Data is not everything in a sport like cricket.

 

[JibranAnsari]

Ofcourse ,stats alone arent enough.

But if data can take into account the pitch difficulty , the match situation , the bowling attack , the batting attack and other things. Then data can be somewhat relevant.

 

[MenInG]

Poll added

 

[JattMaula]

Ofcourse ,stats alone arent enough.

But if data can take into account the pitch difficulty , the match situation , the bowling attack , the batting attack and other things. Then data can be somewhat relevant.

If stats aren't enough it just means you are using insufficient and/or subpar data.

Human intuition can't be replicated by data yet but stats certainly help that human.

A selector can't watch hundreds of players in every situation for significant enough time to make every judgement about them. Data helps him filter out the trash to focus on probable real deals. He can apply subjective criterias at that stage.

 

[Major]

Jahiliat at its peak. When you have jahil people without any education become celebrities and spokes people.

Sports is full of data, and cricket is a game that has soo much data that can be analyzed and broken down.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

The statistics these analysts use are quite detailed. They don't just solely analyse based on average/strike rate etc.

Inzimam is either ignorant of what data can be utilised in sports or he is fearful that something is going to disrupt the old boys club of ex players taking cosy positions.

 

[Major]

He's correct.

Data is not everything in a sport like cricket.

How so?

A players batting avg in domestic is more than likely to be replicated in international cricket. He will most likely lose few points. And this happens with majority of players, there is a minority that can replicate that performance.
That avg is itself data!

Than when we see why high avging players are not performing, we do further breakdown of the data. Is it cause of the pitches he is playing, is it cause he is getting out to a specific type of ball? Is it because a particular type of bowler is getting him out?

Hafeez getting left handers was not some thing that we were told through some godly revelation. Data showed it that he has more impact on left handers. Data looks at the historical aspect.

Nasir Jamshed couldnt play away from his body, to be effective, he needed the ball to come near his body to play good strokes. This is something that data supported and was effective in getting him out.

Data might not be everything, but data plays a very big role in a players performance and to predict whether he will perform or not.

Cricket betting odds are placed on the past data.

 

[topspin]

Misbah the clown did this with putting Fakhar at 3 and opening with Babar and Rizwan

The result= A MASSIVE HOLE IN PAKISTAN’S MIDDLE ORDER EVER SINCE

He didn't.

If he did, he wouldn't have been the flop captain, coach and selector that he truly was.

 

[Rana]

He didn't.

If he did, he wouldn't have been the flop captain, coach and selector that he truly was.

Misbah admitted it on one of those ‘pavilion’ shows that the stats suggested Babar and Rizwan are more destructive than Sharjeel and Fakhar during the powerplay and that’s why he made the RizBar pair

The results of his massive blunder are for all to see. The team is the most dislikable team in the history of Pakistan cricket!

 

[MenInG]

Misbah admitted it on one of those ‘pavilion’ shows that the stats suggested Babar and Rizwan are more destructive than Sharjeel and Fakhar during the powerplay and that’s why he made the RizBar pair

The results of his massive blunder are for all to see. The team is the most dislikable team in the history of Pakistan cricket!

Which is why you cannot have one analyst

You need a team where they can challenge each other - and then report to the CS.

 

[topspin]

Misbah admitted it on one of those ‘pavilion’ shows that the stats suggested Babar and Rizwan are more destructive than Sharjeel and Fakhar during the powerplay and that’s why he made the RizBar pair

The results of his massive blunder are for all to see. The team is the most dislikable team in the history of Pakistan cricket!

This is a fine example of why he can't be trusted to use data. You can't just look at strike rates during the powerplay and take it at face value. You need to delve into these things a bit deeper and factor in the opposition bowling attack, conditions, average score on that ground and other factors. You also have to watch the player and establish what stage they are in their career because one thing that stats don't tell you is the player's ceiling and raw ability. As I said, you can't expect someone who's obtained a degree from a 3rd rate institution to understand all of this.

Data science does have a place in cricket but we need cricketing enthusiasts who have proper data science degrees to carry out this role.

 

[Markhor]

It's not either/or.

Yes it's vital to still physically watch a player in action instead of selecting players based on a quick glance of Statsguru (in which case anyone off the street could do the job).

However ECB have integrated data analysis into their selection processes so our arrangement is not unique but part of a global trend. What these ex-players must understand is teams simply relying on natural talents like in the 80s and 90s is insufficient now.

You need the talented players coupled with sound strategies and opposition gameplans because it's so much easier now to work a cricketer out. You can immediately find out a batsman's strengths and weaknesses - if they're more susceptible to inswing or outswing, offspin or legspin etc.

If anything PCB should've taken this step 10 years ago.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Data should supplement the eye. Cricket is a complicated game and only using data isn't enough to select players like in baseball. You need to hire the best possible analyst, the cricket judge (CS and one or two specialty based selectors) and the coach (who decides what sort of combination of players he wants the team to have).

Hasan Cheema is a fine choice. Bradburn is fine as well. Haroon Rasheed isn't. The guy is neither an expert on identifying the players nor does he watch domestic cricket. People involved in domestic cricket should have been on the panel. Abdul Razzaq, Arshad Khan, Aizaz Cheema etc these guys would know more about the players in the domestic.

Hasan Cheema is definitely better than Mazher Arshad who would have simply lobbied to get Azam Khan and others.

 

[Liverpool_Faizan]

Depends on the quality and depth of the data

In cricket I don’t think data is going to help pick players per se but it can def help develop them and analyze opposition.

 

[Usman Chadda]

Misbah admitted it on one of those ‘pavilion’ shows that the stats suggested Babar and Rizwan are more destructive than Sharjeel and Fakhar during the powerplay and that’s why he made the RizBar pair

The results of his massive blunder are for all to see. The team is the most dislikable team in the history of Pakistan cricket!

Load of rubbish then, because Misbah had no evidence of Rizwan opening the batting and performing well. Pakistan was struggling for openers at the time and Misbah had to chuck in Rizwan because of Babar’s non-availability on that NZ tour. He smashed a decent NZ bowling attack to all parts in the last game to chase down a good total, and hence the Rizwan-Babar partnership came on.

Stats are not always the answer. According to stats the likes of Fakhar, Haider and Sharjeel would still be opening for Pakistan with their mediocre records.

 

[Saj]

This data driven approach hasn't been earth shattering for Islamabad United lately has it.

In Pakistan cricket if you try to over-complicate things or try to be too smart, that usually backfires.

 

[pratiktc]

Data is a tool and is one of many available to today's selectors/management.

Deciding it is useless because you are unaware of how to use it is foolish.

Hiring people who can use/analyze to give inputs and then considering those inputs before deciding to take them/reject them is the mature thing to do.

Unfortunately in Pakistan, too many 'legends' are interested only in giving sound bites/hot takes or waxing lyrical about old days and methods.

 

[Bilal7]

How so?

A players batting avg in domestic is more than likely to be replicated in international cricket. He will most likely lose few points. And this happens with majority of players, there is a minority that can replicate that performance.
That avg is itself data!

Than when we see why high avging players are not performing, we do further breakdown of the data. Is it cause of the pitches he is playing, is it cause he is getting out to a specific type of ball? Is it because a particular type of bowler is getting him out?

Hafeez getting left handers was not some thing that we were told through some godly revelation. Data showed it that he has more impact on left handers. Data looks at the historical aspect.

Nasir Jamshed couldnt play away from his body, to be effective, he needed the ball to come near his body to play good strokes. This is something that data supported and was effective in getting him out.

Data might not be everything, but data plays a very big role in a players performance and to predict whether he will perform or not.

Cricket betting odds are placed on the past data.

Did this same data help you get to the conclusion that Misbah was a better ODI batsman than Inzamam?

Stats are not everything. If they were, we would never see upsets take place in any sport.

 

[MenInG]

Some comments on the data-driven approach

Basit Ali:

"I call it tata-based selection, not data-based selection. You can’t make junior teams based on this method. You need to have a good eye for talent to identify junior talent,"


Salman Butt:

"A person who has never held a bat in his life will give advice on selection,"


Wahab Riaz:

"I don’t know how this data-driven will work. But good luck to Pakistan team and good luck to all of us, as we will see what will be the selection criteria now,"


Junaid Khan:

"It would be interesting to see if Shaheen Afridi, Haris Rauf and Naseem Shah will continue to do what they have been doing since the start of their careers or will they listen to the analyst and follow his advice. In my opinion it would confuse them,"

 

[Markhor]

Some comments on the data-driven approach

Basit Ali:

"I call it tata-based selection, not data-based selection. You can’t make junior teams based on this method. You need to have a good eye for talent to identify junior talent,"


Salman Butt:

"A person who has never held a bat in his life will give advice on selection,"


Wahab Riaz:

"I don’t know how this data-driven will work. But good luck to Pakistan team and good luck to all of us, as we will see what will be the selection criteria now,"


Junaid Khan:

"It would be interesting to see if Shaheen Afridi, Haris Rauf and Naseem Shah will continue to do what they have been doing since the start of their careers or will they listen to the analyst and follow his advice. In my opinion it would confuse them,"

All the dinosaurs coming out now.

 

[Major]

Did this same data help you get to the conclusion that Misbah was a better ODI batsman than Inzamam?

Stats are not everything. If they were, we would never see upsets take place in any sport.

you do know that every thing is cricket is based on quantity data not qualitative. Stats will always play a major part.

Its like saying a research should not include statistical data...........

 

[Rana]

you do know that every thing is cricket is based on quantity data not qualitative. Stats will always play a major part.

Its like saying a research should not include statistical data...........

How is SKy the most overrated batsman in the world according to you in T20?

 

[Major]

Some comments on the data-driven approach

Basit Ali:

"I call it tata-based selection, not data-based selection. You can’t make junior teams based on this method. You need to have a good eye for talent to identify junior talent,"


Salman Butt:

"A person who has never held a bat in his life will give advice on selection,"


Wahab Riaz:

"I don’t know how this data-driven will work. But good luck to Pakistan team and good luck to all of us, as we will see what will be the selection criteria now,"


Junaid Khan:

"It would be interesting to see if Shaheen Afridi, Haris Rauf and Naseem Shah will continue to do what they have been doing since the start of their careers or will they listen to the analyst and follow his advice. In my opinion it would confuse them,"

Wow,

so the one selection of Mr. Cheema has made the jahil lots go crazy.

In every top sport, there are people involved in the management that have not played any sports. But our jahil cricketers with no education dont understand these things. They dont know how data is used in almost everything and how analyzing data is an important need. These guys have that same jahil opinion, oh cricketer should be involved in the cricket industry.........

-Good eye for talent? Had Fawad Alam not been the son of a former cricketer, would he been selected by Basit Ali who was a selector for junior cricket?

-A person who sold the country for a few pounds will give us advice how to run team management?

-When your own stats are not good, its obvious you will complain and go on giving good lucks. Plus, he has only played for Zalmi which is a terrible team. Had he played for Multan or Isb he would had known the affect data has on the game.

-Junaid obviosuly doesnt know the role of an analyst and there is a reason why he was never a top cricketer.

This is the result of making jahil people celebrities, they say the darnest things that reeks of lack of education.

 

[ban1982]

Wow,

so the one selection of Mr. Cheema has made the jahil lots go crazy.

In every top sport, there are people involved in the management that have not played any sports. But our jahil cricketers with no education dont understand these things. They dont know how data is used in almost everything and how analyzing data is an important need. These guys have that same jahil opinion, oh cricketer should be involved in the cricket industry.........

-Good eye for talent? Had Fawad Alam not been the son of a former cricketer, would he been selected by Basit Ali who was a selector for junior cricket?

-A person who sold the country for a few pounds will give us advice how to run team management?

-When your own stats are not good, its obvious you will complain and go on giving good lucks. Plus, he has only played for Zalmi which is a terrible team. Had he played for Multan or Isb he would had known the affect data has on the game.

-Junaid obviosuly doesnt know the role of an analyst and there is a reason why he was never a top cricketer.

This is the result of making jahil people celebrities, they say the darnest things that reeks of lack of education.

Well said, sir. The sole concept of only cricketers being involved in running the game is so outdated. None of the other cricket boards leaders are cricketers, except for Pakistan (well not anymore but we still got such a random person to lead). That's why I loved Waseem Khan. He knew his sole purpose was to generate revenue and never got involved with cricket issues. But these so called experts had issues with him as well.

Someone tell these experts that the current T20 and ODI champion have utilized the data to win the last two major titles.

Yes, data can't be the sole decision driver, but you can't deny how important it is. Don't we look at averages to decide if someone has performed well or not? That is a data point as well.

 

[Technics 1210]

Is there an Urdu version of the interview because I think what Inzi is trying to say is that selection cannot be based on data alone.

Averages / SR / Wickets data etc are not enough to merit selection, there are other factors too.

Take Mark Ramprakash, he was an absolute beast in the English country circuit and is one of the few who has scored over 100 first class centuries (114 to be precise), and was elected for England Test team based on said performance and stats. He just could not cut the mustard because of mindset challenges and was dropped from Tests.

Like wise, Ben Stokes, his stats are not exactly ATG/GOAT level at all, but he has played some of the most memorable game changing / match winning innings in the history of the game.

The you have the likes of Sharjeel Khan and Azam Khan who believe (and their deluded fans) should play for Pakistan T20 team off the back of domestic T20 performances, namely the PSL - we all know what happened. Flopped.

Mindset > Technique > Data

I would probably add personality in there too, an aggressive player has benefits, whereas subdued personalities can benefit certain situations too.

 

[Farabi]

This is a fine example of why he can't be trusted to use data. You can't just look at strike rates during the powerplay and take it at face value. You need to delve into these things a bit deeper and factor in the opposition bowling attack, conditions, average score on that ground and other factors. You also have to watch the player and establish what stage they are in their career because one thing that stats don't tell you is the player's ceiling and raw ability. As I said, you can't expect someone who's obtained a degree from a 3rd rate institution to understand all of this.

Data science does have a place in cricket but we need cricketing enthusiasts who have proper data science degrees to carry out this role.

Misbah never said that. I have watched that show.
He said none of them are “destructive”. What he said was that Fakhar and Sharjeel have the same SR in the PP of around 120s. They are not anymore “destructive” than Babar and Rizwan but the latter are at least consistent.
Fakhar is a slow starter and more suited to ODIs. Even has admitted it now.
Sharjeel also takes his time.

 

[Rana]

Misbah never said that. I have watched that show.
He said none of them are “destructive”. What he said was that Fakhar and Sharjeel have the same SR in the PP of around 120s. They are not anymore “destructive” than Babar and Rizwan but the latter are at least consistent.
Fakhar is a slow starter and more suited to ODIs. Even has admitted it now.
Sharjeel also takes his time.

But he did use some ‘data’ or stats to back his argument didn’t he?

That’s my point. Ok he might have a fair point but then where was his so called Data to forsee the middle order hole that was going to become a part of Pakistan when it’s best No.3 player is leaving a gaping hole by opening the innings??

 

[TheSultan]

The problem with the Data
Based approach is that you can always introduce different variables and skew the numbers to your agenda.