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If an Asian batsman would have scored three tons in a five-match series in SA?

Varun said:
Lollypop attack? Steyn, Rabada, Morkel, Tahir. Lollypop indeed.
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Duh... India are still hard to beat at home despite having a weak attack.
I praised our bowling attack in the last sentences of that post.
 
soso_killer said:
Duh... India are still hard to beat at home despite having a weak attack.
I praised our bowling attack in the last sentences of that post.
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So do the odi series results affect your prediction for the test series? ;-)
 
sivaji said:
This SA attack is not very good. It is just good. It is certainly not ATG.

The Indian attack is playing in India where they learned their cricket.
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IMHO this is a very good bowling attack, not great but very good.
What it needs is a bit of competition to avoid complacency. Abbott and de Lange are crucial and should be made integral members of the squad. Obviously Tahir should be rested for dead rubbers to get another 4 years out of him.
It was the bowlers who won us the series, an all rounder (who can contribute massively with the bat) to fill JP's quota of overs would turn this into a great attack. JP would still roll his arm on turners giving us a spinner and half.
 
battler said:
So do the odi series results affect your prediction for the test series? ;-)
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Nope our bowling attack in tests is to reliant on Steyn which is not the case in ODi's.
And then there is Amla who is out of form at a bad time.
Surely SA can't win 3 series' (t20,odi & tests) in India that's getting greedy. I'd take a draw though.
 
soso_killer said:
Nope our bowling attack in tests is to reliant on Steyn which is not the case in ODi's.
And then there is Amla who is out of form at a bad time.
Surely SA can't win 3 series' (t20,odi & tests) in India that's getting greedy. I'd take a draw though.
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Is Rabada playing the tests or philander? I'd much rather India face Philander than Rabada.
I think Morkel might trouble us more than Steyn though Steyn is always a threat.
And are you playing Harmer or Tahir for the tests?
Anyway I do not see the spinners troubling India, infact they would be our main run scoring option.
 
soso_killer said:
Nope our bowling attack in tests is to reliant on Steyn which is not the case in ODi's.
And then there is Amla who is out of form at a bad time.
Surely SA can't win 3 series' (t20,odi & tests) in India that's getting greedy. I'd take a draw though.
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You keep saying like this and SA will keep winning everything.

Nice strategy. :P
 
It's a great feast. If kohli had done this to win the first away series in SAF, PP's server would have frozen due to 1.2 Billion Indians trying to register and post on PP about it.
 
Anfield said:
It's a great feast. If kohli had done this to win the first away series in SAF, PP's server would have frozen due to 1.2 Billion Indians trying to register and post on PP about it.
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I don't remember PP freezing when Kohli got 4 consecutive hundreds in Australia.
 
Sachin136 said:
I don't remember PP freezing when Kohli got 4 consecutive hundreds in Australia.
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It was just a tongue in cheek comment. But some of your country men were saying India A is better than all the other International teams except Aus when they beat SAF in the side match..
 
Anfield said:
It was just a tongue in cheek comment. But some of your country men were saying India A is better than all the other International teams except Aus when they beat SAF in the side match..
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Dunno about that. But India A looks to be better than India now. :P
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Dunno about that. But India A looks to be better than India now. :P
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yea seems so. lol There is no doubt that there is a dip in India's ODI form. Not sure what's the reason for dip in batting form. It's not like batsmen are burnout except Dhoni maybe who is still good in ODIs.
 
Anfield said:
yea seems so. lol There is no doubt that there is a dip in India's ODI form. Not sure what's the reason for dip in batting form. It's not like batsmen are burnout except Dhoni maybe who is still good in ODIs.
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Lots of reasons. In fact, this result was expected. I wrote a lot of posts about it even before the series started. I thought India even had the potential to lose 0-5.

We didn't. :))

2-3 reflects how bad Saffers have been to be honest.

In fact, if they lost the toss today, they would have lost this series. :facepalm:

But I am REALLY THANKFUL for SA to win this. If we had won this, our garbage strategy would have continued. Now there is some hope for things to change.

Check this (recent thread):

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...-A-Brand-New-Meritorious-Playing-XI-For-India

A thread from the past (around Bangladesh series):

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...ll-In-Modern-Day-ODI-(Adapt-Or-Pay-The-Price)
 
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Sachin136 said:
You ask moderators to delete any posts that are off-topic and then post that the statistics of Indian batsman are inflated massively because of playing 60% of their matches on these pitches (something that has absolutely no relevance to the topic). :))
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How it's off topic I can't understand? Any batsman that plays 60% of the matches on high scoring wickets 'll have inflated stats - Mark Waugh had 3 hundreds in 5 innings in 1996 WC, played in IND while they 'll struggle in majority of the matches are played on low scoring grounds.

My statement was a generalized one & that 350 figure was picked randomly - OP put some stats & I tried to give a logic for the difference between career average & those average given in OP for the greats. Why are you bringing Indian batsmen here - had AB played 60% of a 350 match career in IND, don't you think that his stats would have been different mostly because of the venue, rather than his adaptation capability?
 
Anfield said:
It's a great feast. If kohli had done this to win the first away series in SAF, PP's server would have frozen due to 1.2 Billion Indians trying to register and post on PP about it.
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Oh my word. :))) :))) :)))

That's QOTW material, right there!
 
Mobashir said:
If that had happened he would have been hailed as the greatest batsman ever and he couldn't have been compared to anyone.

In total, Asian batsman have 12 hundreds in South Africa. And here is the records of some leading Asian cricketers in South Africa:

Sachin, 22 innings, average 25 and 65 of SR, 1 hundred, 1 fifty.
Sangakarra, 18 innings, average 31,93 and 75 of SR, 1 hundred 3 fifty.
Inzamam, 17 innings, average 29 and 65 of SR, 0 hundred 3 fifty.

And many more.

It show how our cricketers do not adapt to foreign conditions. Compare this with ABDV who has juste score 3 wonderful hundreds in India in 5 matches and still he is criticized in more than half the comments on the forum.
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When Asian players play in SA, they are playing in a MUCH tougher condition facing MUCH tougher oppositions. When SA tours Asia they are facing inferior bowlers on much more easier pitches. I still think ABD is a cool man :narine
 
MMHS said:
How it's off topic I can't understand? Any batsman that plays 60% of the matches on high scoring wickets 'll have inflated stats - Mark Waugh had 3 hundreds in 5 innings in 1996 WC, played in IND while they 'll struggle in majority of the matches are played on low scoring grounds.

My statement was a generalized one & that 350 figure was picked randomly - OP put some stats & I tried to give a logic for the difference between career average & those average given in OP for the greats. Why are you bringing Indian batsmen here - had AB played 60% of a 350 match career in IND, don't you think that his stats would have been different mostly because of the venue, rather than his adaptation capability?
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If AB had played 60% of his matches AGAINST India in India, sure his stats would have been inflated. Indian batsmen, are unfortunate not to feast on their own bowling attacks. How have Rohit Sharma, Kohli and Dhoni fared on the same pitches against SA bowling?

Mark Waugh scored those tons in 1996 against legendary attacks of India, NZ and Kenya. Rahul, Dravid and Ganguly scored around 500 runs in England 1999 WC, and Tendulkar scored around 670 runs in SA 2003 WC, so the Mark Waugh analogy is flawed.
 
Jo_Don said:
Could have fooled me. You seem like the furthest thing from being a Pakistani fan based on your comments on the Pakistan team. You're a closet Pom, except when they're playing like crap, then you switch sides to being a closet Aussie.
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I don't believe in senseless jingoism and I think that Pakistan has been a distinctly average cricketing nation in the last few years.

5th/6th ranked Test team in truth and scraping the bottom of the barrel in Limited Overs. We have a few good/decent players but plenty of deeply mediocre ones.

Why do I need to buy into the false hype and believe that we are better than we are to prove myself that I'm a genuine Pakistani supporter?

I don't think I need to prove to anyone anything; people are free to have an opinion on me, I'll say what I what have to say.
 
Thivagar said:
When Asian players play in SA, they are playing in a MUCH tougher condition facing MUCH tougher oppositions. When SA tours Asia they are facing inferior bowlers on much more easier pitches. I still think ABD is a cool man :narine
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Sachin is considered an ATG, so he should be doing better
 
trogger said:
vernon and morne injured for this tour or something?
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Vern is a containing bowler in unresponsive pitches, rather than a wicket taking option. Morkel is too erratic sustain pressure for long stretches and has never won us a test match, he is more of a support cast.
The less said about our spinning options (or lack thereof) the better.
 
Mobashir is to de Villiers what Hitman is to Sachin.

ABD is a great batsman and the fact that he doesn't have people making/bumping fifteen threads after every successful match of his, makes him likable too. Please keep it that way and don't turn him into another Sachin Tendulker.

As for the people asking what's so likable about the South African players in general, it's the fact that they play aggressive cricket without having the itch to swear at someone or do something idiotic. The fact that all of them are great guys off the field and great players on it is also a big factor.

No other team checks all those boxes right now, Pakistan has it's own flair and unpredictable factor combined with being an under-dog team, which is why these are the two most likable cricket teams for neutrals.
 
Bilal7 said:
Mobashir is to de Villiers what Hitman is to Sachin.

ABD is a great batsman and the fact that he doesn't have people making/bumping fifteen threads after every successful match of his, makes him likable too. Please keep it that way and don't turn him into another Sachin Tendulker.

As for the people asking what's so likable about the South African players in general, it's the fact that they play aggressive cricket without having the itch to swear at someone or do something idiotic. The fact that all of them are great guys off the field and great players on it is also a big factor.

No other team checks all those boxes right now, Pakistan has it's own flair and unpredictable factor combined with being an under-dog team, which is why these are the two most likable cricket teams for neutrals.
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So now that's a news! Just to clear your and everyone minds:
- I don't rate ABDV as the best batsman of his generation yet.
- I don't rate ABDV as the best current Test Batsman
- I don't rate ABDV as the best ODI player ever. He is well behind Viv and on par with Tendulkar and Ponting.
- I just know that he is way way better than any other ODI batsman currently playing.
 
Mobashir said:
So now that's a news! Just to clear your and everyone minds:
- I don't rate ABDV as the best batsman of his generation yet.
- I don't rate ABDV as the best current Test Batsman
- I don't rate ABDV as the best ODI player ever. He is well behind Viv and on par with Tendulkar and Ponting.
- I just know that he is way way better than any other ODI batsman currently playing.
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Who according to you is best current test batsmen?
 
Ab Fan said:
Who according to you is best current test batsmen?
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Hashim Amla, Joe Root and de Villiers are pretty much on par. But Root and Amla impact more due to batting at 4.
Batting at 5 is a disaster for a guy like de Villiers.
 
lol at armchair wannabe analysts calling the Saffers 'gutless'. ABDV and Faf at Adelede 2012, Amla at Kokata in 2010 were some of the most hard nosed and gutsy performances in the history of test cricket.
 
#GreenRoars said:
No Smithy?
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He is indeed brilliant but not in the top three.

Scored heavely in the famous Aus vs India series with some of the worst pitches you will see.
Missed out in evey loss in the Ashes (that means he wasn't helping his team to not loose the match).
I will put him more with Younis Khan and Alaistair Cook so far.
 
Scrolln said:
If AB had played 60% of his matches AGAINST India in India, sure his stats would have been inflated. Indian batsmen, are unfortunate not to feast on their own bowling attacks. How have Rohit Sharma, Kohli and Dhoni fared on the same pitches against SA bowling?

Mark Waugh scored those tons in 1996 against legendary attacks of India, NZ and Kenya. Rahul, Dravid and Ganguly scored around 500 runs in England 1999 WC, and Tendulkar scored around 670 runs in SA 2003 WC, so the Mark Waugh analogy is flawed.
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You are going back to the fundamental problem, which had been brainwashed for 2 decades - great Indian batsmen put 270/6 in Delhi, Mumbai or Kolkata; but the pathetic Kumble, Sri or Prashad couldn't defend that; while McGrath or Donald could support their batsmen even defending 220 ..... at MCG or Jo'burg.

How easily you recalled Mark's opponents, but forgot to mention Rahul, Saurav or Tendulakar's bulk scoring opponents. Besides, 1999 & 2003 - total matches played by IND was 8 & 10.

It's great that you mentioned Kenya - and it's appropriate as well, here we are talking about Asian batsmen's performance outside Asia. Why don't you run a quarry at StatGuru to see how many Centuries scored by which Indian batsmen outside Asia, if we filter out Kenya FOR throughout 90s, OK I give 3 more years - from 1989 to 2001 - Mazza aa jayega, I can tell you.
 
Oblate, I see this boy Root is getting too much attention. Very good prospects, but still prospects - let's see him in SAF & AUS (& IND, that 93 average is a single match score), then we can tell. He had a pathetic tour of AUS & NZ last time. 21 Tests out of 34 at home actually doesn't give that much confidence yet that Root should be rated along with AB or even Amla.
 
MMHS said:
You are going back to the fundamental problem, which had been brainwashed for 2 decades - great Indian batsmen put 270/6 in Delhi, Mumbai or Kolkata; but the pathetic Kumble, Sri or Prashad couldn't defend that; while McGrath or Donald could support their batsmen even defending 220 ..... at MCG or Jo'burg.

How easily you recalled Mark's opponents, but forgot to mention Rahul, Saurav or Tendulakar's bulk scoring opponents. Besides, 1999 & 2003 - total matches played by IND was 8 & 10.

It's great that you mentioned Kenya - and it's appropriate as well, here we are talking about Asian batsmen's performance outside Asia. Why don't you run a quarry at StatGuru to see how many Centuries scored by which Indian batsmen outside Asia, if we filter out Kenya FOR throughout 90s, OK I give 3 more years - from 1989 to 2001 - Mazza aa jayega, I can tell you.
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The point i was making in the post was there is no difference whatsoever in Mark Waugh's performance in 1996WC and Dravid/Ganguly's in 1999WC and Tendulkar's in 2003WC. So that cannot be used to suggest that Waugh would have made more runs had he played a majority of his games in the SC.

His average in the SC against top 8 sides throughout the 90's was 37 at an SR of 77.

There are not many batsmen throughout the 90's from 'away nations' who averaged higher than their career averages in the SC against top 8 sides in the 90's (Hooper and Kirsten did better iirc) . This was despite them facing relatively weaker attacks than the batsmen from the SC had to face when the travelled abroad.
 
I'm sure people would somehow come up with an excuse to discredit this achievement.
 
It still does not matter he failed in England and the all important greatest CT final in cricket history since 1800
 
GOAT in odis and will be an ATG in tests.

I will rate him higher than Gavaskar and only behind Tendulkar among Asian batsmen because of his character across all formats.

Fair to say, he is the Sobers of 60s, Viv of 70-80s and Tendulkar of 90s-00s.
 
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Zerotohero said:
It still does not matter he failed in England and the all important greatest CT final in cricket history since 1800
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He did fail. Just goes to show how crazy good Amir was in that game.

But there's no way anyone can put down this guy. He is the only batsman in history who has a claim to be called an invincible run-machine.
 
The shot to which AB got out to today, Kohli would never get out that way. Just goes to show how careless AB is when it comes to constructing LOI innings. He has thrown his wicket away countless times this way.
 
But still the pitch is flat when he batted
BCCI=ICCI has changed the pitch during innings break
That is why a very heavy roller was used
 
BunnyRabbit said:
The shot to which AB got out to today, Kohli would never get out that way. Just goes to show how careless AB is when it comes to constructing LOI innings. He has thrown his wicket away countless times this way.
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True. according to me Ab devilliers sometimes premeditates and try to over dominates bowler and gets out playing loose shots.
 
introvert said:
True. according to me Ab devilliers sometimes premeditates and try to over dominates bowler and gets out playing loose shots.
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Premeditation is a part of AB's game. He has successfully dominated matches with that.
 
introvert said:
True. according to me Ab devilliers sometimes premeditates and try to over dominates bowler and gets out playing loose shots.
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The amount of natural ability and talent he has, he should make the best use of it. It's just sort of being bullish and not putting a higher price on his wicket. He gave his wicket away to Sohail Khan in WC15 the similar way after doing all the hardwork.
 
358 runs and avg of 89 with 3 tons by AB in India.

558 runs and avg 186 with 3 tons by Kohli in SA.

AB dominated, but Kohli took it to another level while dominating this series.

SA batting was not good, but Tahir, Rabada and Morkel are top bowlers in ODI format.
 
Ab Fan said:
Bump! 6 ODI series but I think OP must have got the answer..
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A 6 ODI series, but also an average of 186... and only out twice in scoring 558 runs (not counting the run out).
 
Buffet said:
358 runs and avg of 89 with 3 tons by AB in India.

558 runs and avg 186 with 3 tons by Kohli in SA.

AB dominated, but Kohli took it to another level while dominating this series.

SA batting was not good, but Tahir, Rabada and Morkel are top bowlers in ODI format.
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Tahir has been the biggest disappointment this series for me. Going into the series as number one bowler, he under performed massively. Credit to Indian batsmen as well.
 
EliteCynical said:
Tahir has been the biggest disappointment this series for me. Going into the series as number one bowler, he under performed massively. Credit to Indian batsmen as well.
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Indians are able to pick him easily. He hasn't bowled too bad to be honest. Also, SA didn't give many runs to play here...

Indian chinaman is very hard to pick due to hardly any change in action. It would have been interesting to see Indian batsmen against this chinaman. He has bowled brilliantly and not many posters are giving enough credit. I liked that he was still tossing it after getting hit few times.
 
It's amazing how there's a thread for seemingly every prediction on this forum, also more amazing folks somehow remember it!

Kohli was unreal this series, broke all records for a bilateral series and that too away from home against a top bowling lineup. He needs to be celebrated instead of being criticized for his few failures.
 
Buffet said:
Indians are able to pick him easily. He hasn't bowled too bad to be honest. Also, SA didn't give many runs to play here...

Indian chinaman is very hard to pick due to hardly any change in action. It would have been interesting to see Indian batsmen against this chinaman. He has bowled brilliantly and not many posters are giving enough credit. I liked that he was still tossing it after getting hit few times.
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TBH Tahir was never a big turner of the ball and picking his googly was not a big deal for Indian batsmen. You are right about SA not giving him enough runs to play with. Overall yes, the slow bowlers were the difference. Kuldeep may have sprung a surprise in the tests, had he played. I think Chahal was fantastic too. I saw the 'spot the googly' contest by Mike Haysman off Kuldeep and it was really tough to pick which one was going to turn the other way!
 
EliteCynical said:
TBH Tahir was never a big turner of the ball and picking his googly was not a big deal for Indian batsmen. You are right about SA not giving him enough runs to play with. Overall yes, the slow bowlers were the difference. Kuldeep may have sprung a surprise in the tests, had he played. I think Chahal was fantastic too. I saw the 'spot the googly' contest by Mike Haysman off Kuldeep and it was really tough to pick which one was going to turn the other way!
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I couldn't pick it myself, but then I used to play as a fast bowler with very little batting skill.
 
Anfield said:
It's a great feast. If kohli had done this to win the first away series in SAF, PP's server would have frozen due to 1.2 Billion Indians trying to register and post on PP about it.
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Oh my God!! Ppers can really see the future. :O [MENTION=51763]Anfield[/MENTION] can we consult about some Stock market? ;)
 
Usman Chadda said:
He did fail. Just goes to show how crazy good Amir was in that game.

But there's no way anyone can put down this guy. He is the only batsman in history who has a claim to be called an invincible run-machine.
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er, with 340 on board any bowler can defend in a major series final. Even ishant sharma has done that. You don't need to be crazy good to take 3 wickets in a majot final where you team has scored 340 plus. From the history of cricket 340 has never been chased in a major tournament final
 
Indiafan said:
er, with 340 on board any bowler can defend in a major series final. Even ishant sharma has done that. You don't need to be crazy good to take 3 wickets in a majot final where you team has scored 340 plus. From the history of cricket 340 has never been chased in a major tournament final
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Then why did we have Indian fans saying Kohli and co. can chase anything.
 
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Usman Chadda said:
Then why did we have Indian fans saying Kohli and co. can chase anything.
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General way to convey across a point is to exaggerate them. Kohli can't chase everything, but he can chase it more than everyone else. Like saying Wasim Akram can swing ball both ways in a single delivery.
 
WengerOut said:
General way to convey across a point is to exaggerate them. Kohli can't chase everything, but he can chase it more than everyone else. Like saying Wasim Akram can swing ball both ways in a single delivery.
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Quoting [MENTION=3327]Indiafan[/MENTION] here, it seems any lalloo-panju can get Kohli and co out if they are faced with a 340 score in a final. That's a nice way to demean your batsmen, who you hype to Pluto before the said chase.
 
WengerOut said:
General way to convey across a point is to exaggerate them. Kohli can't chase everything, but he can chase it more than everyone else. Like saying Wasim Akram can swing ball both ways in a single delivery.
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Waz actually did. TWICE.
1) Against England in 96’ against a batsman named Croft. It was an in-swinging Yorker that swung away late. It was given Not-Out because the umpire could not believe the actual trajectory had occurred.
2) Against Adam Gilchrist in 2002 in the UAE. This one swung away but once the seam hit the pitch, it came back in. This one was OUT as Gilly was bowled. This promoted Akram to shout some “not-so-nice” things in that amazing Wasim Scream.
 
I'll be little bit conservative about hyping kohli.

He's having a good peak.

But unless he could continue it and perform in world cup, I'll hold my horses.
 
Itachi said:
I'll be little bit conservative about hyping kohli.

He's having a good peak.

But unless he could continue it and perform in world cup, I'll hold my horses.
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lol He has been having peaks for the last 5 or 6 years . Check how many years he crossed 1000 plus runs
 
Itachi said:
I'll be little bit conservative about hyping kohli.

He's having a good peak.

But unless he could continue it and perform in world cup, I'll hold my horses.
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King Kohli is performing from many years... U can keep your horses on hold !
 
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