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If Azhar Ali is removed as Test skipper, who should be his replacement?

If Azhar Ali is removed as Test skipper, who should be his replacement?

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  • Poll closed .
MenInG

MenInG

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So the rumour mill in full swing but given the number of voices talking about it, seems Azhar Ali's days as captain of Pakistan could be numbered.

But who should replace him?

Rizwan and Shan Masood seem excellent candidates but are there more?
 
Definetly Shan Masood

And get an intellectual international coach to work with him. You will see much more creativity in the field.
 
Smith, Kohli, Williamson and Root are captaining their respective teams.

Babar should too.

He's already ODI captain so that's a start.
 
Varun said:
Smith, Kohli, Williamson and Root are captaining their respective teams.

Babar should too.

He's already ODI captain so that's a start.
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Bro Babar isn’t as smart as these guys. They are more than just batsmen, they are full on personalities. Babar is a great batsman but that’s about it.
 
I am thinking not just in terms of who would be a good captain, but who has a guaranteed spot in the team.

Though Shan would be a good captain, he does NOT have a guaranteed spot. He is already over 30, and he is an opener which means reflexes are very important to dealing with the new ball.

Further, Shan has not cemented his place as a batsman as of yet - despite some excellent knocks, the most recent England series is telling in that he followed his 150 up with several single digit scores.

Even if he does gain consistency, we have several openers coming through the ranks. Imam ul Haq is already the third opener, and we have folks like Haider Ali and Abdullah Shafique who will begin asking for their spot on the Test team.

The other two captaincy candidates are Babar and Rizwan. It is safe to say that both will be in the Test team for the next 5-6 years at the very least. The only challenging keeper is Rohail Nazir, who is 4-5 years away from challenging Rizwan’s spot in the Test team.

As we don’t want to overburden Babar, that means Rizwan would be the ideal candidate to captain. I can also go into more detail on Babar’s introverted personality. Rizwan has the traits, shows positive intent, leads both with bat and glove.

Most importantly, we won’t have to replace him for 5 years. We need consistent captains who begin captaining in their 20s.
 
Babar Azam.

I like Rizwan and have rated him for a long time. But why does it take 1 good series and your suddenly in the race to be captain? Also we saw with Sarfraz making a keeper isn't a great idea. If we are going to make Rizwan captain I would rather he drops the gloves so he doesn't have too much to worry about.

I would go with Babar anyway. He will be in the test team for a long time, sets a good example, and is young enough to be captain for long time.

I wouldn't go with Shan due to him not being a certainty in the team.
 
I choose Rizwan. Don't want to over burden Babar. If Babar is made test captain, Shadab Khan should become T20I captain.
 
Babar makes the most sense, but PCB rarely makes the sensible decision when it comes to captaincy.
 
Tough ask to give Babar captaincy in all 3 formats.
 
They could do something innovative by making Misbah the captain and coach.
 
Ill go with Shan & Babar as deputy - in two years time Shan will be out of PAK team & Babar can take over. Right now, an over burdening Babar isn’t the brightest idea.
 
MenInG said:
So the rumour mill in full swing but given the number of voices talking about it, seems Azhar Ali's days as captain of Pakistan could be numbered.

But who should replace him?

Rizwan and Shan Masood seem excellent candidates but are there more?
Click to expand...

1. No player over the age of 33 should ever be the captain - just like with Alastair Cook. Once you reach 33, you can be selected as a batsman if you are good enough, but as a series-by-series proposition as the oldest member of the team. The first series you fail, you are retired.

2. There are 3 potential skippers for the next few years:

Option A - Babar Azam
He is not qualified.

He is the best batsman, but has shown no leadership skills and he can't speak English.

He has shown no sign of any capacity for sophisticated analytic thought.

He is the highest risk candidate, because nobody can replace his batting output if the captaincy damages his batting.

Option B - Mohammad Rizwan
He is a long-shot because he has only been in the team for a year.

He too has shown little evidence of a capacity for sophisticated analytic thought.

Unlike Babar, he is a man with a ferociously competitive attitude, and who has shown more self-reflection in terms of improving himself.

Unfortunately at the age of 28 and a half he is likely to go into decline as a batsman in around 3-4 years - he is not a long-term option for the captaincy.

Fortunately, Rohail Nazir can be groomed to undertake Rizwan's role, so if he should start to fail under the weight of the captaincy there is another viable option.

Option C - Shan Masood
For a long-time I opposed Shan Masood being considered for the captaincy.

He is intelligent, thoughtful, fluent in English and a good leader and role model. He is like a smarter, less conservative version of Misbah-ul-Haq.

The problem has always been that he is a mediocre batsman, whose place in the team was not secure. That has now changed - he work with Gary Palmer has made him the second best Test batsman in the team behind Babar Azam, even though English conditions will always be his Kryptonite. His batting has gone from the bottom end of mediocre to the top end of mediocre, and he is now on a par with peers like Rory Burns.

The elephant in the room is Shadab Khan. He is the Pakistani player who is the most exceptional leader of men, but at the age of just 22 (this month) he is around 2 years too young to be the captain. And his cultural upbringing means that some of his behavior remains unacceptable for the captain of his country.

Nobody cared about Imran Khan's sex life as a player because he was discreet and respectful towards western women. Shadab is still too culturally ignorant to manage that aspect of his life and, by extension, the captaincy - the same things which disqualified Shane Warne from the captaincy currently disqualify Shadab Khan.

Personally, I would appoint Shan Masood as the short-term skipper for the 2021-23 World Test Championship ONLY, with Mohammad Rizwan and Shadab Khan appointed as Test Vice-Captains.

And I would send both Rizwan and Shadab on cultural diversity training so that they can learn how to behave in the western countries in which they will spend half their time.
 
I'm still unconvinced by Babar Azam's captaincy skills. He never struck me as a natural captain as a domestic/junior team captain where his results are mixed.

He like many previous Pakistan captains is too deferential towards senior players, and while it's still early days for him as T20 captain, it's not been a tenure to write home about.

Moving down the list to Mohmmad Rizwan. Look, not everyone can be MS Dhoni. We saw how international captaincy and trying to maintain a place in all three formats as a batsman and a keeper took a heavy toll on Sarfraz Ahmed. While Rizwan has much superior batting ability, keeping skills and fitness levels, and would only have to worry about captaincy in one format, it's still a big ask.

That leaves Shan Masood. I was surprised when he was recalled in South Africa two years ago as I never thought much of his batting, and even more surprised at how he's transformed his game. He's the only captain in Pakistan to understand and process the importance of data and analytics in the modern game. He's done a good job for Multan Sultans and Southern Punjab where his captaincy skills have already been tested.
 
Babar's captaincy in the England t20's was pretty average and he was constantly overawed by Malik and Hafeez. I just don't think he's a leader and would be perfectly happen for him to simply focus on scoring runs everytime he plays for Pak.
 
Babar was appointed the vice captain, if the aim of PCB is not to overburden him then that leaves two obvious options currently as many have discussed Rizwan and Shan. Rizwan has done well leading emerging teams as well as Pak A as well as done pretty well in domestic cricket as captain. Shan has been good with Multan Sultans and with Southern Punjab though in T20 cricket as of now mainly.

As a player I think Rizwan is a permanent fixture as the WK/batsman in test cricket for coming years and he is younger than Shan by around 3 years. Making someone captain means he has to be the permanent fixture in the team and team should be able to afford that permanent presence. This has been the issue when Sarfaraz was captain and was declining and now Azhar as captain and declining so I guess PCB would try hard to not be in same situation again.

So for Shan I think with no guarantee of being a permanent opener for Pak test lineup in next 3-5 years definitely doesnt play in his favor and now he might be a much better batsman but due to his initial poor years still averages 31 as of now and with couple of pour series his average can dip in 20s and I dont think it would be a good situation to be in when your captain will have to justify his spot just like the last two captains.

Considering everything I think it Mohammad Rizwan is a more long term and safer option than Shan. Rizwan is the best keeper behind the stumps and doing really well with the bat too, even if he struggles for form with bat he and management still wont be under as much pressure as when a captain who is opener gets out of form and average falls in 20s.
 
Rizwan would also just be a better captain. I am not convinced by Babar's captaincy, he is not far from Azhar Ali in terms of captaincy. A Babar captaincy would probably go similarly to Joe Root's captaincy.
 
Still whoever it is, good thing is there is now accountability and all the available options are probably the fittest players in the side and have the progressive attitude to improve their own game which always sends the right message to other players.
 
MMHS said:
Ill go with Shan & Babar as deputy - in two years time Shan will be out of PAK team & Babar can take over. Right now, an over burdening Babar isn’t the brightest idea.
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Yeah i agree with you, babar isnt ready yet, doesnt seem to be a natural leader. He can lead by example but by not by his charisma or words.

Working with shaan will help him understand the captaincy role better and will help him settle into a groove.

Team is finally getting younger and we need an intelligent leader for the stop gap period before babar fully embraces his role. 28-29 will be the perfect age for him to take over.
Just before his prime.
 
Shan has been the best opener for Pak. in the last couple of years. Not a great player, but he is a sure starter in Tests.

Babar still has room to grow in Tests. Has to prove that he can play long innings. 130s and 140s will not cut it.

Abbas would be the wildcard option. Good bowler and experienced.

These are the only 3 options. Asad is out of form and Rizwan has only played a handful of matches.

I would go with Shan, if not him then Abbas, and if not him then Babar.

If Azhar is sacked, I expect them to go with Babar.
 
Sir-fraz said:
Yeah i agree with you, babar isnt ready yet, doesnt seem to be a natural leader. He can lead by example but by not by his charisma or words.

Working with shaan will help him understand the captaincy role better and will help him settle into a groove.

Team is finally getting younger and we need an intelligent leader for the stop gap period before babar fully embraces his role. 28-29 will be the perfect age for him to take over.
Just before his prime.
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Communication is not his comfort zone - and nervousness isn’t the appropriate state of mind for the best batsman of a struggling team. Babar should be thinking about his next day’s batting during a Test, not the press conference in afternoon.

Shan loves to talk, extremely fit and regular for only one format, highly educated as well for a PAK cricketer, articulate, organised - put the baggage on him - may be his 35 average will come down to 29 ..... Babar’s case it can come down to 35 from 70.

And, Rizwan will be a disaster - the day the hardest worker in the PCT finds that his spot is not subject to his fitness & performance..... it didn’t go well with Kamran or Sarfraz..... he can always give his words of wisdom to Shan Masood standing at gully or 3rd slip.
 
I know majority of the people will choose Shan Masood and and tbh he might be the best captain of the options available. However, in test cricket, you need a proper player who can stay in the team for the next few years and lead from the front. Two reasons I am against Shan Masood for captaincy is the age factor and the lack of ability to score consistenly. When the captain of the team comes to bat on Day 1 first session and gets out in the ewrly overs more often than not the team gets into thepressure straightaway. He is not Alistair Cook or Strauss who gets stuck in the crease. He plays a high scoring knock followed by low scores which makes him average in the 30s. I know that Shan's analytic thinking and pressure thinking might be the best but captaincy in test cricket with his batting ability is too much to ask for. He has improved alot but I feel he will decline in a year or two which is the problem.
The only two viable options are Babar and Rizwan. Babar is the safer option but a defensive one because Babar is
the best batsman with no captaincy material and personally appointing Shan over Babar would be better for both of them. However, appointing Rizwan would be a bold move. With his level of wicket keeping not matched in the domestic circuit he can be a permanent member for the next 5 years or so in test cricket. His runs down the order will always be the bonus and fighting knocks will give the team the extra boost to perform better.
I also think Babar should focus on the limited overs captaincy and Shadab should focus on leading the T20 team in few years. Shan should focus on his game and try to perform as long as possible.
 
Rizwan has played just 9 tests. After the 1st test against, some wanted Sarfaraz back then Rizwan played a couple of good knocks and now he is a top contender for captaincy. If he is appointed as captain and fails in couple of series then he might even lose his place.

Shan Masood should be picked as captain. He isn't a long term option but has been a regular for two years and performed well even in overseas.
 
RyanRyan10 said:
Rizwan has played just 9 tests. After the 1st test against, some wanted Sarfaraz back then Rizwan played a couple of good knocks and now he is a top contender for captaincy. If he is appointed as captain and fails in couple of series then he might even lose his place.

Shan Masood should be picked as captain. He isn't a long term option but has been a regular for two years and performed well even in overseas.
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Given he is perhaps one of the best keepers in the world right now, let alone Pakistan, who will Rizwan lose his place to?

Even as a specialist keeper, Rizwan will fit in our national Test side as Sarfaraz is past it and Rohail is too young. Rizwan is guaranteed to be there for the next 5 years as long as he keeps the way he did in England.

His batting is bonus, and right now it’s going well.
 
Thunderbolt14 said:
Given he is perhaps one of the best keepers in the world right now, let alone Pakistan, who will Rizwan lose his place to?

Even as a specialist keeper, Rizwan will fit in our national Test side as Sarfaraz is past it and Rohail is too young. Rizwan is guaranteed to be there for the next 5 years as long as he keeps the way he did in England.

His batting is bonus, and right now it’s going well.
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Sarfaraz was more established as an international cricketer + was an ICC event winning captain when he was handed over the test captaincy. He played his last test after 15 months of his first test as captain.

In an ideal world, Rizwan won't be dropped after a few failures but then it's Pakistan Cricket. We have seen in the past how players keep losing captaincy and also their place in the team after just one bad series. Between 2007 to 2011, Pakistan had 5-6 captains. Younis Khan won them a T20 WC and the team also reached SF in CT but after one bad series against NZL, he was sacked (or forced to resign). Afridi was called to captain in tests but he retired just after a test. Misbah became captain at the age of 36, if I an not wrong then he wasn't a part of Pak test team in the series played before his appointment.

If Pakistan team under Rizwan don't get the desired result in tests and Rizwan also fails in the T20 format & either of Sarfaraz or Rohail Nazir have a good domestic season then Rizwan might lose his place. Sarfaraz has strong media backing. Rohail is already hailed as future of Pakistan cricket.
 
The criteria for Pakistan captain usually is a player who already has question marks over his position in the team, and has a habit of going through a bad run of form - that’s just the kind of player who needs to be burdened with captaincy and then for the selectors/PCB to publicly back him when bad things go even worse.. all at the team’s expense.

Shan Masood maybe ?
 
Majid Khan said:
The criteria for Pakistan captain usually is a player who already has question marks over his position in the team, and has a habit of going through a bad run of form - that’s just the kind of player who needs to be burdened with captaincy and then for the selectors/PCB to publicly back him when bad things go even worse.. all at the team’s expense.

Shan Masood maybe ?
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Iam surprised that you didn't say Hafeez.
 
Shan Masood to me, seems like the best option. He has improved massively with the bat. He has the personality to be a credible leader. And he has actually been successful as captain in T20s. I know T20 is not the same but rn to me he seems like the best candidate.

Babar does not seem like someone to whom, captaincy comes naturally. It was troubling to see him not be able to control the game and the players like a captain usually should in the England T20Is and on a number of occasions he did not show the calmness and composure a captain should show.

Rizwan can be a good vice-captain.
 
Varun said:
Smith, Kohli, Williamson and Root are captaining their respective teams.

Babar should too.

He's already ODI captain so that's a start.
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None of them were captain at 25 though so I think it might be a bit too early. You dont want the same captain for over 10 years thats too much of an ask.
 
Babar Azam for sure. No other player in the list has a locked starting position and i can only laugh on those recommending Rizwan and Shan.
 
I have a question. Does anyone know whether the PCB discusses this with the captain themselves as well?

That is to say, would be too much to assume there are meetings between Wasim Khan, Ehsan Mani, Misbah ul Haq, Mohammad Rizwan, and Babar Azam going on right now?

And whoever else is being considered. What if Babar for example doesn’t want the position?
 
I think PCB shouldn't rush with appointing captain. Wait for NZ series and get rid of 2 main dead wood Azhar, Shafiq and useless Misbah and all talk Waqar.
 
Shan has yet to cement his place in the side , please no makeshift captains.


Babar is the natural choice. Make someone else the t20 captain.
 
Babar azam..there is nobody else..He is young, will learn and I hope will not be a defensive coward..
 
So, for me, a truly amazing captain is

1) Is secure in his own place in the team,
2) has the respect of his teammates,
3) unites his team,
4) Has a defined strategy in mind (different to tactics),
5) one who is tactically proficient; and
6) Can get more out of the sum of the teams parts, than the individuals themselves.

Of the above, points 1) and 2) are non negotiable. 3) to 6) are desirable traits that make you a more effective captain.

Currently, Azhar only meets criteria 2) and may be 3) because the dressing room is filled with people uncertain of their places.

Babar has 1) and 2) in his favour. He also claims 4) in that he wants to play attacking cricket, per his captaincy press conference last year. But that contradicts wanting to play Malik repeatedly.

Rizwan meets points 1 - 4, however, for point 4, going by his strategy in the national t20 cup, he's still very old school in depending heavily on his bowling to win him matches. Some would say that he was making the best use of his resources, but I'm skeptical. I want him to grow into his role in Test Cricket and also solidify his place in white ball cricket, given that we're still yearning for a WK with a higher strike rate.

Shan, for me easily meets points 2 through to 6. Here's how:

2) has the respect of his teammates, - this is a guy who has had to fight the nepotism tag, has list his place and then comeback into the team with relatively improved results. He also is one of the better fielders in the team and a measured presence. This, plus his t20 caotaincy success derives respect

3) unites his team, - As a test specialist, he isn't playing under Babar in white ball cricket and will be the oldest player in the team, so shld be able to unite the team.

4) Has a defined strategy in mind (different to tactics), - He's clearly a strategic guy in how he set about the Multan Sultans, going with a spin heavy attack when all others went with the more popular pace options

5) one who is tactically proficient; - I think he's the most tactically proficient option Pakistan have had since Younis Khan. He, admittedly in t20s, marshalled his resources admirably. Examples were demoting himself in the batting order when chasing that total against Baluchistan in 12.3 overs. He just strikes me as a thinking cricketer.

6) Can get more out of the sum of the teams parts, than the individuals themselves - He has had two teams in Southern Punjab and MS that have performed above expectations compared to rival teams. That can't be ignored.

He currently doesn't meet criteria 1, I.e. his place in the team is not certain. But I think Shan is the type of chap that naturally levels up, and punches above his weight. For example, a lot of PP'ers thought it was ridiculous that he was playing for MS in the PSL, nevermind captaining them. But by the end of PSL and the national t20, there were very few arguments about his place in the team. If you give him a young, skilled and vibrant team, he may well surprise a few people.

To ere on the side of caution, I would give him the NZ and SA series to see how he does. If it doesn't work out, we can then move onto Rizwan.
 
Pakhs said:
Kohli is 32 how long has he been captain for?
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January 2015 to be precise- 4th Test of 2014-15 India tour of Australia; that’s as permanent Test captain, he might have led before that when MS was injured or banned. Officially, he was less than 26 years and 2 months old when he went for the toss.
 
MMHS said:
January 2015 to be precise- 4th Test of 2014-15 India tour of Australia; that’s as permanent Test captain, he might have led before that when MS was injured or banned. Officially, he was less than 26 years and 2 months old when he went for the toss.
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So yes past 26 to become on format captain.
 
We need someone who will permanent member of test side for long term basis. I don't see anyone apart from Babar or maybe Yasir.


Rizwan technique isn't good he can expose anytime with technical staff video Analyst working on his weak areas so we don't know if he is going to be there.

Babar Azam shouldn't be Burdened with test captaincy.

Shan masood isn't also certain.

I think an outsider who will replace Asad Shafiq and Azhar Ali in middle order. I'm thinking Usman Salahuddin he captain QAT team once very well with limited resources and he can be permanent member of side because he is technically accurate and very less technical faults.
 
RyanRyan10 said:
Sarfaraz was more established as an international cricketer + was an ICC event winning captain when he was handed over the test captaincy. He played his last test after 15 months of his first test as captain.

In an ideal world, Rizwan won't be dropped after a few failures but then it's Pakistan Cricket. We have seen in the past how players keep losing captaincy and also their place in the team after just one bad series. Between 2007 to 2011, Pakistan had 5-6 captains. Younis Khan won them a T20 WC and the team also reached SF in CT but after one bad series against NZL, he was sacked (or forced to resign). Afridi was called to captain in tests but he retired just after a test. Misbah became captain at the age of 36, if I an not wrong then he wasn't a part of Pak test team in the series played before his appointment.

If Pakistan team under Rizwan don't get the desired result in tests and Rizwan also fails in the T20 format & either of Sarfaraz or Rohail Nazir have a good domestic season then Rizwan might lose his place. Sarfaraz has strong media backing. Rohail is already hailed as future of Pakistan cricket.
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No chance rizwan will loose his place in the tests even with captaincy or without captaincy t20 if he fails he will stil captain the test side if given a chance.
 
shamaan said:
Imad got exposed in the national cup
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He isn't great but I don't want to heap more pressure on Babar especially as most T20 matches at the international level are forgotten before the ink has dried on the scorecard. That's means we need to find an alternative that also plays, and thats why I plumped for Imad.
 
Bewal Express said:
He isn't great but I don't want to heap more pressure on Babar especially as most T20 matches at the international level are forgotten before the ink has dried on the scorecard. That's means we need to find an alternative that also plays, and thats why I plumped for Imad.
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Shadab is already vice captain of the LOI teams. If Babar steps aside in T20s he's likely to be the one they'll go to.
 
Most successful test captains in history have shared one common trait, they are the first name on the team sheet at the time of selection.

No one commands as much respect in the team dressing room as Babar Azam, he is the only option for captaincy at this point.

If he doesn't deliver after a decent run, we can look at other mediocre players/options.
 
Bewal Express said:
He isn't great but I don't want to heap more pressure on Babar especially as most T20 matches at the international level are forgotten before the ink has dried on the scorecard. That's means we need to find an alternative that also plays, and thats why I plumped for Imad.
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What about shadab he was head and shoulders above imad in the national cup
 
Shan Masood in the lead at the moment.
 
Shan Masood isn't a guaranteed first XI player. Anyone who saw that 150 in England knows he fluked it.

So it's either Babar or Rizwan.

Doesn't really matter who is captain for next tour, because NZ are going to whitewash us anyway.:facepalm
 
octavian said:
Most successful test captains in history have shared one common trait, they are the first name on the team sheet at the time of selection.

No one commands as much respect in the team dressing room as Babar Azam, he is the only option for captaincy at this point.

If he doesn't deliver after a decent run, we can look at other mediocre players/options.
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Tendulkar says hi. False equivalences!
 
shamaan said:
What about shadab he was head and shoulders above imad in the national cup
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There are many things to like about Shadab but his bowling isn't good enough at this point. If he becomes more consistent and can be guaranteed a place in the team, then he would be a better candidate. At the moment he is bowling too much rubbish and isn't guaranteed a place.
 
angrypathan said:
Shadab is already vice captain of the LOI teams. If Babar steps aside in T20s he's likely to be the one they'll go to.
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He maybe but he isn't bowling well enough to be guaranteed a place. Shadab needs to go back to basics and get control. Atm he can't land 2 balls in the same place
 
Thunderbolt14 said:
Tendulkar says hi. False equivalences!
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Actually, it's true. There are top cricketers who have failed as Captain like Tendulkar, but what he is saying that most of the successful Captains were among top few players in the team - not necessarily has to be the best player, but I am sure what it's meant by is that the player is an automatic choice without any doubt, if fit.

Tendulkar failed as Captain not because he was the first name in team sheet :), rather because his personality trait was reserve, he was a silent operator who would love to do his on job perfectly, but couldn't get the job done by others. There are many IT genius who are brilliant in developing software/hardware designs, but not good people managers and often creates problem in team. Tendulkar, Jaques Kallis are in that group. In fact, Sir Gary was a failure to be honest as Captain and KR Miller never got it. Also, most teams don't appoint their premier fast bowler as Captain to manage work-load - that doesn't mean Lilee, Roberts, Hadlee, Marshall, McGrath, Donald, Ambrose, Styen, Lindwall.... were dumbs or didn't draw respect.

But, most of the top Captains in history are among their top players - for Pakistan, Kardar, Mushatq, Imran, Wasim, even Misbah in his own scope took PAK to No. 1 on UAE based dominance and he has fantastic figures there. That's true most countries actually - may be you can name very few who were great Captains first, player second - Brearley, Illingworth, Tony Lewis, Darren Sammy, Ali Bacher...... However, many of those such Captains are English because ECB/TCCB had a different policy of appointing Captain - Royalty, OxBridge blue, amateur ......... these were major criteria for appointing Captains hence we have seen Lord Haris, Plum Warner, Gabbi Allen, Jardin, Lewis, Brearley, Walter Robins leading England but Hobbs, Sutcliffe, Tate, Larwood, Compton, Pynter, Sandham, Verity .... didn't, even didn't lead their Counties. SAF also, had different criteria hence some of their great Captains made the XI as Captain first in olden days. Before WW2, WIN captains had to be white - that was first qualification... and before partition, India had some Maharajas as Captain, basically for their connections and funding of the tour.

Australia has always appointed someone Captain you would remember the name - I did, even after 125 years - George Giffen, Monty Noble, Vic Trumper, Clem Hill, Warwick Armstrong, Bill Woodful, DG Bradman, Lindsay Hasset, IW Johnson, Richi Benaud, Bobby Simpson, Bill Lawry, Ian/Greg Chappell, Graeme Yellop, Kim Hughes, A Border, Mark Taylor, Steve Waugh, Adam Gilchrist, Michel Clearke, Steve Smith .... finally this WK guy.

I hope Babar proves me wrong, but if he is appointed Test Captain now - in two-three years time he might be humiliated at PP - he won't be able to match the "expectation" ....... Sarfraz didn't last 2 years after winning an ICC event. But, that has noting to do with the best player being appointed as Captain.

For PCT, with the current state of the team and possible future few years, best thing is to appoint someone Captain with THICK skin, deaf ear but great mouth and whose lack of performance won't cost team that deadly - only guy I see is Shan Masood..... the punching bag.
 
MMHS said:
Actually, it's true. There are top cricketers who have failed as Captain like Tendulkar, but what he is saying that most of the successful Captains were among top few players in the team - not necessarily has to be the best player, but I am sure what it's meant by is that the player is an automatic choice without any doubt, if fit.

Tendulkar failed as Captain not because he was the first name in team sheet :), rather because his personality trait was reserve, he was a silent operator who would love to do his on job perfectly, but couldn't get the job done by others. There are many IT genius who are brilliant in developing software/hardware designs, but not good people managers and often creates problem in team. Tendulkar, Jaques Kallis are in that group. In fact, Sir Gary was a failure to be honest as Captain and KR Miller never got it. Also, most teams don't appoint their premier fast bowler as Captain to manage work-load - that doesn't mean Lilee, Roberts, Hadlee, Marshall, McGrath, Donald, Ambrose, Styen, Lindwall.... were dumbs or didn't draw respect.

But, most of the top Captains in history are among their top players - for Pakistan, Kardar, Mushatq, Imran, Wasim, even Misbah in his own scope took PAK to No. 1 on UAE based dominance and he has fantastic figures there. That's true most countries actually - may be you can name very few who were great Captains first, player second - Brearley, Illingworth, Tony Lewis, Darren Sammy, Ali Bacher...... However, many of those such Captains are English because ECB/TCCB had a different policy of appointing Captain - Royalty, OxBridge blue, amateur ......... these were major criteria for appointing Captains hence we have seen Lord Haris, Plum Warner, Gabbi Allen, Jardin, Lewis, Brearley, Walter Robins leading England but Hobbs, Sutcliffe, Tate, Larwood, Compton, Pynter, Sandham, Verity .... didn't, even didn't lead their Counties. SAF also, had different criteria hence some of their great Captains made the XI as Captain first in olden days. Before WW2, WIN captains had to be white - that was first qualification... and before partition, India had some Maharajas as Captain, basically for their connections and funding of the tour.

Australia has always appointed someone Captain you would remember the name - I did, even after 125 years - George Giffen, Monty Noble, Vic Trumper, Clem Hill, Warwick Armstrong, Bill Woodful, DG Bradman, Lindsay Hasset, IW Johnson, Richi Benaud, Bobby Simpson, Bill Lawry, Ian/Greg Chappell, Graeme Yellop, Kim Hughes, A Border, Mark Taylor, Steve Waugh, Adam Gilchrist, Michel Clearke, Steve Smith .... finally this WK guy.

I hope Babar proves me wrong, but if he is appointed Test Captain now - in two-three years time he might be humiliated at PP - he won't be able to match the "expectation" ....... Sarfraz didn't last 2 years after winning an ICC event. But, that has noting to do with the best player being appointed as Captain.

For PCT, with the current state of the team and possible future few years, best thing is to appoint someone Captain with THICK skin, deaf ear but great mouth and whose lack of performance won't cost team that deadly - only guy I see is Shan Masood..... the punching bag.
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That’s what I mean. In Pakistan cricket, often the most defining metric that goes towards captaincy selection is how good a player is, rather than whether they will make a good captain. That’s why we shuffle captains so much. PCB often fails to take into account leadership ability as well as popularity within the team.

Like you said, I believe Babar will be kicked out from test captaincy 2 years from now after some SENA tour in 2022 or 2023.

Shan is a fantastic short term choice, and Rizwan is a good long-term choice. I personally dislike chopping and changing so I don’t want to appoint Shan only to have another captaincy crisis in 2-3 years. It causes too much instability in the team.
 
Thunderbolt14 said:
That’s what I mean. In Pakistan cricket, often the most defining metric that goes towards captaincy selection is how good a player is, rather than whether they will make a good captain. That’s why we shuffle captains so much. PCB often fails to take into account leadership ability as well as popularity within the team.

Like you said, I believe Babar will be kicked out from test captaincy 2 years from now after some SENA tour in 2022 or 2023.

Shan is a fantastic short term choice, and Rizwan is a good long-term choice. I personally dislike chopping and changing so I don’t want to appoint Shan only to have another captaincy crisis in 2-3 years. It causes too much instability in the team.
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If only Rizwan hadn't been the WK, that too in three formats ............................
 
Of the Fab 4, only Williamson was the one who was thrusted with captaincy in all formats in one go.
Smith to an extent got a 1 year break between captaining test and odi sides but the thing is, both williamson and smith were captaining from early age in domestics and underage level.

Williamson was even being touted as a future captain as far back as 2011 or 2012.
Babar hasn't had much experience with leadership in the past. His captaincy in t20is has not been upto the mark evidently.
He needs to get better at it and maybe take over the charge of all formats in 2 years time.
 
MMHS said:
If only Rizwan hadn't been the WK, that too in three formats ............................
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Rizwan might be too surplus to requirements in T20is i guess. Pak doesn't even play that much international cricket either.
 
BunnyRabbit said:
Rizwan might be too surplus to requirements in T20is i guess. Pak doesn't even play that much international cricket either.
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I don't like WK to be Captain, though most likely next long term BD captain is going to be one.
 
MMHS said:
I don't like WK to be Captain, though most likely next long term BD captain is going to be one.
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Why not Rizwan as skipper batting at 3, with Rohail Nazir as batsman-keeper at 6?
 
Junaids said:
Why not Rizwan as skipper batting at 3, with Rohail Nazir as batsman-keeper at 6?
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I could have accepted that, unless

1. Rizwan isn’t that genius of a Captain that, we’ll need to change the combination to accommodate him as Captain

2. Rizwan is a decent bat at 6/7 against old ball - still averages 32-33 in Test, boosted by his knock in Australia under conditions where Yasir Shah averaged 48+ with a hundred. He is good at that spot - against new ball at three, he won’t better Azhar’s number; but Azhar saved a Test from there batting 12 hours, Rizwan isn’t that good for three

3. Still I could have taken it had Ruhail been a better WK - he is not, in-fact Ruhail is an above pathetic WK. These days, desperation has raised PAK youngsters stake sky high in PP - in reality, Ruhail is not a Test quality WK yet. If I am to pick Rizwan as specialist batsman & another WK, I’ll take Sarfraz any day.

4. Rizwan made his mark as a brilliant WK first - I don’t see any reason for the madness of forcing him a No. 3 and bring a novice as Test WK, just because of being a youngster and Rizwan has to be given Captaincy. Real cricket is not fantasy.
 
Junaids said:
Why not Rizwan as skipper batting at 3, with Rohail Nazir as batsman-keeper at 6?
Click to expand...

Because that would be clownery of the highest order. As of now, Rohail Nazir is neither a test quality keeper nor a test quality batsman. Rizwan is not good enough to bat at 3 either.
 
MMHS said:
Australia has always appointed someone Captain you would remember the name - I did, even after 125 years - George Giffen, Monty Noble, Vic Trumper, Clem Hill, Warwick Armstrong, Bill Woodful, DG Bradman, Lindsay Hasset, IW Johnson, Richi Benaud, Bobby Simpson, Bill Lawry, Ian/Greg Chappell, Graeme Yellop, Kim Hughes, A Border, Mark Taylor, Steve Waugh, Adam Gilchrist, Michel Clearke, Steve Smith .... finally this WK guy.
Click to expand...

Of all the names to forget... Ricky Ponting :rp
 
[MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION], let me explain with real life example.

In recently concluded ENG-PAK Test series, both WK got Man of The Series award - Buttler, despite his pathetic keeping, for his brilliant counter attacking batting that took both Tests away from PAK and he was still Not Out in second Test, had it been played longer - he could have done that again. Rizwan, for his brilliant, brilliant keeping and some useful, timely runs.

Now, it’s a valid option for England to make Butler as specialist bat at 5, and pick Ben Foakes as specialist WK - Foakes easily a much better WK, and quite a decent bat as well - averages over 40 in FC and already has a match winning Test hundred. Butler is probably their LO vice Captain as well.

But, it’s an absurd idea to take gloves away from the best PAK WK since Latif, and then force him out of his comfort batting position to the toughest spot in Test line-up .... then put the Captaincy load on his shoulders and bring an untested WK, MUCH inferior glovesman, who averages cool 7 runs lower than Rizwan’s 43 in FC cricket, despite Rizwan’s FC numbers being dented by his Test average of 35 and volume of runs being eight times higher.

Now, you please tell me what do you think about that idea of yours after my two posts in this regard.
 
As much as I value Junaids’ comments, Rizwan at 3 is an absurd suggestion. Saud Shakeel, Abdullah Shafiq, Haris , Babar and evening Haider are superior options for that particular number!
 
Shan Masood is the weakest of these candidates.
I would take Asad Shafiq over Shan Masood.
 
Junaids said:
Why not Rizwan as skipper batting at 3, with Rohail Nazir as batsman-keeper at 6?
Click to expand...

It's not the test batting order, Rizwan would have trouble at. It's the ODI no. He bats in the top 5 in List A cricket while he is unable to make the transition to no.7 in ODI's.
In the ODI's he played in the top order, I believe he scored 2 centuries in 5 games.
In Tests, he is fine at no. 6 or 7.
It's because of Sarfraz' decline in batting and wicketkeeping that he was dropped from the test team, so that's where rizwan was called up. So promoting rizwan at no.3 would undo that over again.

Rohail needs to play a lot of FC cricket atleast 2 full seasons i think if he is to break into the international team.
 
My vote is for Shadab Khan.

Nothing we have seen of Babar Azam is convincing. Shan Masood is unimaginative.

Shadab is my bet - inspiring, leads from the front, fills in as an allrounder and is full of energy. Good tactically too.
 
Corridor of Uncertainty said:
My vote is for Shadab Khan.

Nothing we have seen of Babar Azam is convincing. Shan Masood is unimaginative.

Shadab is my bet - inspiring, leads from the front, fills in as an allrounder and is full of energy. Good tactically too.
Click to expand...

Bro, problem is Shadab is not a permanent member of test team. He is not sure starter in final xi, which in my opinion, should be the first requirement to be a captain.

If you make him captain, you will be forced to play him in each and every test match.

ATM, he is not a test class bowler and he hasn't achieved anything in test cricket yet so how will he inspire the team.

This experiment may end in tears.

In fact it will be the same mistake which PCB made in 2007, when they appointed Shoaib Malik as a captain of Pakistan test team. He could have been a good ODIs & T20 captain but wasn't a suitable candidate for test captaincy. That decision proved costly and our test team remained unstable for the next few years.

He was also a bits and pieces cricketer like Shadab (In fact, back then Shoaib Malik was a better batsman than what Shadab is now) and problem of these types of players is, they struggle against quality sides in difficult conditions.

So, IMO Shadab shouldn't be made the captain of test team until unless he becomes a permanent member and a proven performer of test team.
 
Corridor of Uncertainty said:
My vote is for Shadab Khan.

Nothing we have seen of Babar Azam is convincing. Shan Masood is unimaginative.

Shadab is my bet - inspiring, leads from the front, fills in as an allrounder and is full of energy. Good tactically too.
Click to expand...

Shadab is good in limited overs but in tests hes not even a garranteed starter so how can u make him captain if he was to be captain it would have to be t20s
 
Kaddy said:
Bro, problem is Shadab is not a permanent member of test team. He is not sure starter in final xi, which in my opinion, should be the first requirement to be a captain.

If you make him captain, you will be forced to play him in each and every test match.

ATM, he is not a test class bowler and he hasn't achieved anything in test cricket yet so how will he inspire the team.

This experiment may end in tears.

In fact it will be the same mistake which PCB made in 2007, when they appointed Shoaib Malik as a captain of Pakistan test team. He could have been a good ODIs & T20 captain but wasn't a suitable candidate for test captaincy. That decision proved costly and our test team remained unstable for the next few years.

He was also a bits and pieces cricketer like Shadab (In fact, back then Shoaib Malik was a better batsman than what Shadab is now) and problem of these types of players is, they struggle against quality sides in difficult conditions.

So, IMO Shadab shouldn't be made the captain of test team until unless he becomes a permanent member and a proven performer of test team.
Click to expand...

I agree with you. It's a big gamble. But not playing him in tests doesn't make sense. He is a good batsman and will only develop further when he plays. He is a also a good spinner and will only develop when he plays.

The argument for making him captain is simple - doing the same things over and over and expecting different results is madness. Shan will be an Azhar 2. Rizwan has a case for sure, but on balance, I find Shadab to be more inspirational.

We need an experiment - not safety.
 
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