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If Ben Stokes is prosecuted

Yossarian

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Putting aside any disciplinary action by the ECB since it's not a cricketing matter, should physical violence resulting in injury carry a lesser sentence than attempting to defraud bookies by deliberately bowling a no ball?

A 12 month jail sentence for bowling a no ball versus a 10 month suspended sentence for stabbing with a breadknife.

Oxford medical student Lavinia Woodward spared jail for knife attack

On Monday she was given a 10-month jail sentence suspended for 18 months for inflicting unlawful wounding.

Oxford Crown Court heard Woodward attacked her then boyfriend, who she had met on dating app Tinder, while he was visiting her in December.

She became angry when he contacted her mother on Skype after he realised she had been drinking.

She threw a laptop at him and stabbed him in the lower leg with a breadknife, also injuring two of his fingers. Woodward then tried to stab herself with the knife before he disarmed her.

The court heard Woodward had become addicted to drugs while in an abusive relationship with a previous boyfriend.

The case was the subject of huge debate about inequality in the criminal justice system, prompted by the judge deferring sentencing and describing the attack as "a complete one-off".

"I find that you were genuinely remorseful following this event. Whilst you are a clearly highly-intelligent individual, you had an immaturity about you which was not commensurate for someone of your age."

Judge Pringle said Woodward faced a possible maximum sentence of three years in prison for a "category two" offence of unlawful wounding.

The Dean of Christ Church, the Very Revd Professor Martyn Percy, said Woodward had voluntarily suspended her studies.

"It is clearly a matter of regret and sadness when any young person blights a promising career by committing a crime.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-41389520
 
The Law in Britain is good but the application of it is so uneven it is a huge source of injustice.

The Judges who deliver sentences are overwhelmingly old white males who have a vested interest in preserving the status quo and will back their own kind.

Can't see any judge convicting an 'England hero' the same he would a young black/brown kid
 
The Law in Britain is good but the application of it is so uneven it is a huge source of injustice.

The Judges who deliver sentences are overwhelmingly old white males who have a vested interest in preserving the status quo and will back their own kind.

Can't see any judge convicting an 'England hero' the same he would a young black/brown kid
From the other thread in the cricket forum.


Perhaps community service and and anger therapy could be the result of his actions.
You don't even get jail for GBH as a first offence now. Prisons are rammed. No room and no money.
But you do get a 12 month jail sentence for deliberately bowling a no ball.
http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...t-Windies-VIDEO-POST-91&p=9444455#post9444455
 
.. than attempting to defraud bookies by deliberately bowling a no ball?

Not just that. But fraud enabling people to cheat at gambling. I don't care about bringing bad reputation to cricket or country, or disappointed young ones who see you as a role model. Those are not crimes. But to be a part of a conspiracy to cheat people at gambling, that is a crime which deserves punishment.
 
Not just that. But fraud enabling people to cheat at gambling. I don't care about bringing bad reputation to cricket or country, or disappointed young ones who see you as a role model. Those are not crimes. But to be a part of a conspiracy to cheat people at gambling, that is a crime which deserves punishment.

By fixing you are not causing physical harm to anyone and are not putting anyone's life in danger.

People who are convicted of fraud or such crimes are sent to open prisons as soon as possible as they pose no danger to society. People convicted of violence are sent to more secure prisons, usually category B or C.

If Stokes gets away without doing any jail time, he's a lucky boy.
 
By fixing you are not causing physical harm to anyone and are not putting anyone's life in danger.

People who are convicted of fraud or such crimes are sent to open prisons as soon as possible as they pose no danger to society. People convicted of violence are sent to more secure prisons, usually category B or C.

If Stokes gets away without doing any jail time, he's a lucky boy.

Was amir sent to a secure prison, the ones reserved for violent crimes? Would be wrong if it happened.

The point was that the sentence was not just for cheating bookies, and bowling a no ball, but a conspiracy to commit a financial fraud, which deserves punishment. If there was punishment for harming the reputation of cricket, then I don't agree with it.
 
Not just that. But fraud enabling people to cheat at gambling. I don't care about bringing bad reputation to cricket or country, or disappointed young ones who see you as a role model. Those are not crimes. But to be a part of a conspiracy to cheat people at gambling, that is a crime which deserves punishment.
Don't cut and quote a post in such a way as to completely distort the point being made.


There was no mention about the cr*p about "bad reputation to cricket or country, or disappointed young ones who see you as a role model" in the OP, or even about gambling fraud not deserving punishment.

Had you read the complete article, you should have figured out that the question being asked was whether a criminal act involving grievous bodily harm (eg stabbing someone with a knife) was a lesser crime than bowling a no ball.

But I guess that is too much to ask of some posters possessing a limited capacity to understand posts they're reading.
 
Don't cut and quote a post in such a way as to completely distort the point being made.


There was no mention about the cr*p about "bad reputation to cricket or country, or disappointed young ones who see you as a role model" in the OP, or even about gambling fraud not deserving punishment.

Had you read the complete article, you should have figured out that the question being asked was whether a criminal act involving grievous bodily harm (eg stabbing someone with a knife) was a lesser crime than bowling a no ball.

But I guess that is too much to ask of some posters possessing a limited capacity to understand posts they're reading.

I never said that you or anyone mentioned the trap about crickets reputation, that was my own commentary. Don't know why anyone would think that anything I say has to be in response to what someone said.

My point is that the punishment was not for bowling a deliberate no ball, as you so innocuously stated in the cricket thread responding to james and uncle rob. So since we both agree, I hope, that the punishment for the spot fixers was deserved, we can move to the comparison of what is the greater crime.
 
I never said that you or anyone mentioned the trap about crickets reputation, that was my own commentary. Don't know why anyone would think that anything I say has to be in response to what someone said.

My point is that the punishment was not for bowling a deliberate no ball, as you so innocuously stated in the cricket thread responding to james and uncle rob. So since we both agree, I hope, that the punishment for the spot fixers was deserved, we can move to the comparison of what is the greater crime.
But I suggest you refrain from partially cutting/pasting a quote in such a way as to give a false impression of what the original post stated.
 
But I suggest you refrain from partially cutting/pasting a quote in such a way as to give a false impression of what the original post stated.

I also suggest you to refrain from selectively bolding text to make people read them as highlights ignoring the context, like you did in the article in the OP.

You made her appear like a criminal, conveniently not highlighting that she tried to harm herself as well, and was remorseful for her action. So either bold every word of the article, or don't do it all.
 
The Law in Britain is good but the application of it is so uneven it is a huge source of injustice.

The Judges who deliver sentences are overwhelmingly old white males who have a vested interest in preserving the status quo and will back their own kind.

Can't see any judge convicting an 'England hero' the same he would a young black/brown kid

Jesus you literally make every post a "look at me im a victim" diatribe. The idea that englands judiciary are engaged in some conspiracy to uphold the power of the white race is just insanity.

Country with historically white population has judges who tend to be white men and thats discrimination? Lol

Typically you're nowhere to be found when items of actual discrimination like, oh I dont know, the systematic persecution and eradication of minorities in Muslim countries is concerned often resulting in them being sentenced to death due to whatsapp messages but hey I'm sure thats just a coincidence-

But hey, head on over to change.org there and start a petition calling for more asian judges, that'll help.
 
I also suggest you to refrain from selectively bolding text to make people read them as highlights ignoring the context, like you did in the article in the OP.

You made her appear like a criminal, conveniently not highlighting that she tried to harm herself as well, and was remorseful for her action. So either bold every word of the article, or don't do it all.
:facepalm:
She is a criminal! She was found guilty of the crime. That is not in dispute!

Or is it the case that whatever part of the world you reside in, being found guilty in a court of law, of a criminal offence of GBH, still means that you're not a criminal? :))
 
Jesus you literally make every post a "look at me im a victim" diatribe. The idea that englands judiciary are engaged in some conspiracy to uphold the power of the white race is just insanity.

Country with historically white population has judges who tend to be white men and thats discrimination? Lol

Typically you're nowhere to be found when items of actual discrimination like, oh I dont know, the systematic persecution and eradication of minorities in Muslim countries is concerned often resulting in them being sentenced to death due to whatsapp messages but hey I'm sure thats just a coincidence-

But hey, head on over to change.org there and start a petition calling for more asian judges, that'll help.
Actually, in reference to the article in the OP re-the student who knifed her boyfriend, it has ignited that very debate. I even heard an interviewee stating, during a discussion on Radio 2, that it was judges from privileged backgrounds "looking after their own" (or words to that effect)

However, the ruling is likely to reignite the row provoked by Judge Pringle’s earlier comments in the case, with race and equality activists last night claiming that Woodward’s class and social standing may have played a part in her sentence.

John Azah, chief executive of the Kingston Race and Inequalities Council said: "I always struggle with how the services legislate justice when it comes to Black Minority and Ethnic (BME) and white people.

"If she wasn't Oxford-educated, if she came from a deprived area, I don't think she would have got the same sentence and been allowed to walk free."

Echoing his comments, Mark Brooks, chair of the charity Mankind Initiative, said: “In terms of whether the genders were reversed, we would expect any man committing this type of crime to go to prison and rightly so.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...suggested-bright-prison-spared-jail-stabbing/
 
I have known people who have done time for ABH. One who got 2 years and another who got 3 years. Not their first offence on either occasion. The law does get applied properly in most cases, but I take the point that Amir was harshly done to.
 
Actually, in reference to the article in the OP re-the student who knifed her boyfriend, it has ignited that very debate. I even heard an interviewee stating, during a discussion on Radio 2, that it was judges from privileged backgrounds "looking after their own" (or words to that effect)

Isolated cases can occur obviously, but to claim there some systematic abuse going on over the country requires lots of evidence else ill call it for what it is, baloney and another effort and playing victim (not directed at you)
 
Isolated cases can occur obviously, but to claim there some systematic abuse going on over the country requires lots of evidence else ill call it for what it is, baloney and another effort and playing victim (not directed at you)
But that's the very issue that is being debated in the media, that these are not isolated cases but much more widespread, a variation of the health services debate about the "Post Code lottery", except that here it's social (and/or ethnic) backgrounds, or even in some cases gender, in relation to sentences handed down for criminal offences committed.
 
:facepalm:
She is a criminal! She was found guilty of the crime. That is not in dispute!

Or is it the case that whatever part of the world you reside in, being found guilty in a court of law, of a criminal offence of GBH, still means that you're not a criminal? :))

Yes, driving while drunk is a crime, and if you do that just once does that make you a criminal? Maybe if you have broken any law, I am talking to a criminal now.

But according to me "criminal" is a term used for generality, either because of repeated offence or the degree of its violence.

So please come again..was amir jailed just for a no ball? As you tried to mislead with your half truths and full lies?
 
I have this (naive?) perception that GB is the most just place on earth :jinnah :ik

Alongside Scandinavia, probably only country where justice is served.
 
I have this (naive?) perception that GB is the most just place on earth :jinnah :ik

Alongside Scandinavia, probably only country where justice is served.

You are right. Most just system in the world. A saudi was acquitted from assault, because he just accidentally tripped on the so called victim..but the saudi millionaire was the real victim. No other country will show such compassion. And yet people with no gratitude are blaming and shaming the UK justice system.
 
You are right. Most just system in the world. A saudi was acquitted from assault, because he just accidentally tripped on the so called victim..but the saudi millionaire was the real victim. No other country will show such compassion. And yet people with no gratitude are blaming and shaming the UK justice system.

Let's break it down:
1. Asia, ME, Latin America and Africa are a mockery to word justice. Rich literally own courts here :nawaz
2. Southern Europe P.I.I.G.S (Portugal, Italy, Ireland (not southern but whatever), Greece and Spain) are Okeyish unless you mess with wrong people. USA is in a similar kinda situation unless you are black :trump . Japanese , South Koreans and Aussies/NZ are there as well.
3. Germany, France and Canada are how the world should be.
4. Scandinavia / UK as close to utopia as it can get [MENTION=1842]James[/MENTION] ?
 
Let's break it down:
1. Asia, ME, Latin America and Africa are a mockery to word justice. Rich literally own courts here :nawaz
2. Southern Europe P.I.I.G.S (Portugal, Italy, Ireland (not southern but whatever), Greece and Spain) are Okeyish unless you mess with wrong people. USA is in a similar kinda situation unless you are black :trump . Japanese , South Koreans and Aussies/NZ are there as well.
3. Germany, France and Canada are how the world should be.
4. Scandinavia / UK as close to utopia as it can get [MENTION=1842]James[/MENTION] ?

Depends on what you mean by justice.

If it means retribution and to have people fear the law, then Saudi has the best justice system.
If it means showing mercy to criminals and trying to improve them, then Scandinavian countries.

Personally, I favour retribution and harsh punishments. I believe humans behave well that way.
 
Putting aside any disciplinary action by the ECB since it's not a cricketing matter, should physical violence resulting in injury carry a lesser sentence than attempting to defraud bookies by deliberately bowling a no ball?

A 12 month jail sentence for bowling a no ball versus a 10 month suspended sentence for stabbing with a breadknife.

? No one was ever banned jailed for bowling a no ball........

He was jailed for corruption.

atleast use the proper phrasing.
 
Yes, driving while drunk is a crime, and if you do that just once does that make you a criminal? Maybe if you have broken any law, I am talking to a criminal now.

But according to me "criminal" is a term used for generality, either because of repeated offence or the degree of its violence.

So please come again..was amir jailed just for a no ball? As you tried to mislead with your half truths and full lies?
Well in this country, the UK, a "criminal" is someone who has been found guilty in a court of law of committing a criminal offence.
And by that definition, the student who stabbed her boyfriend is a criminal because she has been found guilty in a court of law. You however appear to think that this does not classify her as being a criminal. :facepalm:
 
? No one was ever banned jailed for bowling a no ball........

He was jailed for corruption.

atleast use the proper phrasing.
Oh dear, oh dear. Here, I'll edit and clarify it just for you since you're havinga problem understanding.

A 12 month jail sentence for (deliberately, with prior intent and agreement with a 3rd party, in order to try and defraud the bookies) bowling a no ball versus a 10 month suspended sentence for stabbing with a breadknife.
 
This was a female who the court showed leniency toward. If the situation switched and the male had stabbed his gf, then i am almost 100% certain the punishment would have carried actual jail time.
 
This was a female who the court showed leniency toward. If the situation switched and the male had stabbed his gf, then i am almost 100% certain the punishment would have carried actual jail time.
The debate in the UK media is primarily focussing on the comments made by the judge in relation to the reasons he gave for not sending her to prison. It has been suggested he was 'looking after his own' considering her privileged social background, wealthy parents, her private schooling and Oxbridge education. Some claim that even the fact that she's good looking played a part in the leniency shown by the judge.
Whereas had she been from a working class backgound, with a scouse accent, brought up in a deprived inner city council estate, and unemployed or doing menial work, then yes, she would almost certainly have gone to prison.
 
The debate in the UK media is primarily focussing on the comments made by the judge in relation to the reasons he gave for not sending her to prison. It has been suggested he was 'looking after his own' considering her privileged social background, wealthy parents, her private schooling and Oxbridge education. Some claim that even the fact that she's good looking played a part in the leniency shown by the judge.
Whereas had she been from a working class backgound, with a scouse accent, brought up in a deprived inner city council estate, and unemployed or doing menial work, then yes, she would almost certainly have gone to prison.

This is the problem with the society. Everyone is an expert on everything. Someone suggesting that the judge was biased, some claiming this some claiming that, some projecting their own biases on the judge. Let them put their money where their mouth is and sue the judge instead of whining online.
 
I am not really too bothered which carries the harsher punishment, the procedures to arrive at guidelines are rigorous enough in Britain. If we think cheating at sport is more serious than stabbing someone then fair enough.

My issue will always be that the law will be applied unevenly depending on whether the face fits. There will be overwhelming public will for Stokes to get cleared so his stature as an English hero is not tarnished. Similarly, the student who stabbed her boyfriend got a suspended sentence instead of jail because she was an Oxford student and very pretty so the judge might have got flutters affecting his decision.

These things happen when emotions get involved.
 
Oh dear, oh dear. Here, I'll edit and clarify it just for you since you're havinga problem understanding.

again, he was banned for corruption and not for bowling a no ball.

get your terms right
 
Amir was jailed for conspiracy to defraud, not "bowling a no ball".

I can see Stokes getting a suspended sentence / community service and being dropped by Durham and England while he serves his time. He will be given anger management and alcohol counselling.

He has committed no offence against cricket so there will be no ICC ban, as there was with Amir.
 
Jesus you literally make every post a "look at me im a victim" diatribe. The idea that englands judiciary are engaged in some conspiracy to uphold the power of the white race is just insanity.

Country with historically white population has judges who tend to be white men and thats discrimination? Lol

Typically you're nowhere to be found when items of actual discrimination like, oh I dont know, the systematic persecution and eradication of minorities in Muslim countries is concerned often resulting in them being sentenced to death due to whatsapp messages but hey I'm sure thats just a coincidence-

But hey, head on over to change.org there and start a petition calling for more asian judges, that'll help.

Judges aren't white because of systematic racism. They're white because the country has a majority white population and not all minorities have made it to these sort of positions in society yet. Give it a decade or so and more coloured people will also take up such positions.
 
[MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION] The incident occurred during the series.

So I think he will get a ban as this directly impacted England's next matches as Stokes was unavailable. His attitude during the series was not good and will get disciplinary ban and fine.
 
I am not really too bothered which carries the harsher punishment, the procedures to arrive at guidelines are rigorous enough in Britain. If we think cheating at sport is more serious than stabbing someone then fair enough.

My issue will always be that the law will be applied unevenly depending on whether the face fits. There will be overwhelming public will for Stokes to get cleared so his stature as an English hero is not tarnished. Similarly, the student who stabbed her boyfriend got a suspended sentence instead of jail because she was an Oxford student and very pretty so the judge might have got flutters affecting his decision.

These things happen when emotions get involved.

So are you telling me that the law in Britain is different for the elites and different for the common man :yk2?
Sounds like the same sort of stuff you'll find in some of the most backward regions of the world, I told you before captain, get the hell out of the "Not so Great anymore" Britain :srini
 
So are you telling me that the law in Britain is different for the elites and different for the common man :yk2?
Sounds like the same sort of stuff you'll find in some of the most backward regions of the world, I told you before captain, get the hell out of the "Not so Great anymore" Britain :srini

At least in Britain it will get to court. In many other "rising" countries the answer would be mob lynching of the "accused", burn down a locality or two, then wait a few years for the judge and jury to announce the riot ringleaders clear of all charges.
 
Said this in the other thread, but I guess it's worth mentioning here:

No famous sports star would face prison. Stokes is too important/famous of a player and (although you do actually have other sports stars that do get jail time a la OJ) but under influence, I’m convinced he’ll just get a fine and suspension.

Marcos Alonso, Chelsea defender but then Bolton, killed a women drunk driving. Was double the limit.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...passenger.html

Consequences:

http://www.larazon.es/deportes/futbo...tt1tx736HpW7Jm

Basically he was supposed to get sentenced for 4 years, got reduced to 1 year 9 months, then just got fined and his license suspended because:
1) he paid a lot of money to the victims family
2) he understood the severity of his crime, etc
3) the court took too long to rule on the case

Sports star literally get away with murder.


The mention of the law/justice system is an interesting point. However the criminal justice system is stronger in UK than Spain, but it is still swayed towards those with money. If you want another case, there's Ashley Cole who shot a student at Stanford Bridge with an air-rifle:

"Under British law the incident could be deemed actual bodily harm which carries a maximum penalty of five years' imprisonment and an unlimited fine.

Cole, who earns £110,000 a week, is reported to have been given a severe dressing down, and has formally apologised to Cowan."

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2011/feb/27/ashley-cole-chelsea-air-rifle

So he gets away with it cos he earns a bag load of money (probably paid the guy off) and gave an apology. Absolutely pathetic.

The justice system is no better in any other country. Full of corruption everywhere.
 
So are you telling me that the law in Britain is different for the elites and different for the common man :yk2?
Sounds like the same sort of stuff you'll find in some of the most backward regions of the world, I told you before captain, get the hell out of the "Not so Great anymore" Britain :srini

The case is the same for any other country. The difference is that the quality is better in UK than many other "backward countries" but there still are severe imbalances. If you think that Stokes will be the first case that'll go over the courts' head then you must be ignorant.
 
again, he was banned for corruption and not for bowling a no ball.

get your terms right
He wasn't "banned for corruption" by the judge. It was the ICC that "banned" him, not the judge, for deliberately bowling a no-ball. The judge is the one who sent him to jail for 'guilty of conspiracy to cheat at gambling and conspiracy to accept corrupt payments'. Get your facts right.
 
Amir was jailed for conspiracy to defraud, not "bowling a no ball".

I can see Stokes getting a suspended sentence / community service and being dropped by Durham and England while he serves his time. He will be given anger management and alcohol counselling.

He has committed no offence against cricket so there will be no ICC ban, as there was with Amir.
I fear he might even completely get away with "self defence" considering that he (and the ECB) will ensure that he will get the best lawyers that money can buy. That and the connections between the Establishment (which the ECB is full of) and the judiciary (ditto). And, oh yes, any witnesses suddenly having lapses of memory.

Do you recall the case of Steven Gerrard beating the hell out of someone and it being caught on cctv? Or the case of Leeds United footballers Jonathan Woodgate and Lee Bowyer kicking an Asian student almost to death and effectively getting away with it?

The attack was sudden, brief and ferocious, like a pack of wild dogs unleashed, a metaphor which dominated 18 weeks of argument in two trials costing more than £15m.

One minute two gangs of youths, one tanked up on alcohol, the other foolishly provocative, were swapping insults and a couple of ineffective clouts. The next, a young student was slumped half-dead on a Leeds street, kicked, beaten and left with six fractures and a face scarred by bitemarks for life.

As Sarfraz Najeib, 21, lay in intensive care in Leeds general infirmary the following day, January 12 last year, there was scant public interest. But six days later Leeds United's chairman, Peter Ridsdale, was called to the phone in Hong Kong to confirm a leak that star players were being questioned by West Yorkshire police and that the attack was being treated as racist. The world turned upside down.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/dec/15/football.martinwainwright
It has been alleged that in both the cases mentioned, the witnesses were "leant upon" (check out Gerrard's extended family's links with the Liverpool underworld) and/or brown envelopes changed hands. Wouldn't be surprised if similar happens in this case.
 
Putting aside any disciplinary action by the ECB since it's not a cricketing matter, should physical violence resulting in injury carry a lesser sentence than attempting to defraud bookies by deliberately bowling a no ball?

A 12 month jail sentence for bowling a no ball versus a 10 month suspended sentence for stabbing with a breadknife.

Fixing is a fraud and should carry fines and time away from game or a permanent ban. I don't know see it needs a jail time. Jail time should be for those criminals who will endanger the community. Amir did not go out hurting or killing people. He did defraud people (indirectly) so his ban was completely acceptable. Length of that ban is debatable. Though I would have preferred a life ban in most cases, Amir was a borderline and I think what he got was right. But jail time was uncalled for.
 
He wasn't "banned for corruption" by the judge. It was the ICC that "banned" him, not the judge, for deliberately bowling a no-ball. The judge is the one who sent him to jail for 'guilty of conspiracy to cheat at gambling and conspiracy to accept corrupt payments'. Get your facts right.

Good to see you come to the realization that he wasn't jailed for just bowling a no bowl. That was disingenuous from you.
 
I fear he might even completely get away with "self defence" considering that he (and the ECB) will ensure that he will get the best lawyers that money can buy.

The ECB will have no role in this. They have to firewall themselves off from any political blowback.

But there is some truth to the old saying that you get just as much justice as you can pay for, and Stokes can afford to employ a top QC.
 
The ECB will have no role in this. They have to firewall themselves off from any political blowback.

But there is some truth to the old saying that you get just as much justice as you can pay for, and Stokes can afford to employ a top QC.
Officially no, you're correct in that.

However, as you know very well, the 'old boy' network that is at the heart of english cricket, from club, to county, to the ECB (and for that matter, it's equivalents in every other cricketing nation) consists of the same 'old boy' network that comprises the Establishment, is at the heart of the judiciary, and even forms the basis of the Tory party and the current government.

Note: I'm excluding most modern cricketers from the 'old boy' networks that actually run cricket
 
The ECB will have no role in this. They have to firewall themselves off from any political blowback.

But there is some truth to the old saying that you get just as much justice as you can pay for, and Stokes can afford to employ a top QC.

Isnt stoke innocent until proven guilty?If thats the law in UK, why should he be suspended from playing for England?
 
Isnt stoke innocent until proven guilty?If thats the law in UK, why should he be suspended from playing for England?

Employment law in the UK states that employees can be suspended from duty for any justifiable reason whilst under investigation (internally and / or externally) - as long as they remain on full pay. This is because to withhold pay could be construed as a presumption of guilt. So by suspending Stokes on full pay, the ECB is taking the appropriate action and simultaneously respecting the innocent til proven guilty maxim.
 
Employment law in the UK states that employees can be suspended from duty for any justifiable reason whilst under investigation (internally and / or externally) - as long as they remain on full pay. This is because to withhold pay could be construed as a presumption of guilt. So by suspending Stokes on full pay, the ECB is taking the appropriate action and simultaneously respecting the innocent til proven guilty maxim.

If he is suspended with full pay then its ok.

But still why should he be suspended?I can understand suspension if the defedant is in a position to influence the investigation or trial.A sportsman has a very limited career.

Anyways how long can this go on?Till end if trial?
 
Isnt stoke innocent until proven guilty?If thats the law in UK, why should he be suspended from playing for England?

For potentially bringing the ECB into disrepute.

The only similar case I can think of was Botham who was arrested and charged for possession of a small quantity of cannabis in 1986. He was dropped for five tests.

(At the time he was one wicket shy of Lillee's record. He went level with Lillee with his first ball back. Next ball, he had a huge LBW shout turned down. Second over, he took another wicket and the record.)
 
However, as you know very well, the 'old boy' network that is at the heart of english cricket, from club, to county, to the ECB (and for that matter, it's equivalents in every other cricketing nation) consists of the same 'old boy' network that comprises the Establishment, is at the heart of the judiciary, and even forms the basis of the Tory party and the current government.

I don't know that very well. In all my years I have never met such people. Might be true, might be conspiracy theory.
 
I don't know that very well. In all my years I have never met such people. Might be true, might be conspiracy theory.
Here, read this. It gives a flavour, albeit not conclusive proof, of the nature of who/what runs english cricket.

MCC: the greatest anachronism of English cricket
[....]
To this observer it’s both puzzling and slightly troubling that the people who run cricket, and the mainstream media who report on it, remain so reverentially fascinated by an organisation whose function has so little resonance for the vast majority of people who follow the game in this country.

Virtually anything the Marylebone Cricket Club do or say is news – and more importantly, cricket’s opinion-formers and decision-makers attach great weight to its actions and utterances. Whenever Jonathan Agnew interviews an MCC bigwig during the TMS tea-break – which is often – you’d think from the style and manner of the questioning that he had the prime minister or Archbishop of Canterbury in the chair.

Too many people at the apex of cricket’s hierarchy buy unthinkingly into the mythology of the MCC. Their belief in it borders on the religious. A divine provenance and mystique are ascribed to everything symbolised by the red and yellow iconography. The club’s leaders are regarded as high priests, their significance beyond question.

The reality is rather more prosaic. The MCC is a private club, and nothing more. It exists to cater for the wishes of its 18,000 members, which are twofold: to run Lord’s to their comfort and satisfaction, and to promote their influence within cricket both in England and abroad. The MCC retains several powerful roles in the game – of which more in a moment.

You can’t just walk up to the Grace Gates and join the MCC. Membership is an exclusive business. To be accepted, you must secure the endorsement of four existing members, of whom one must hold a senior rank, and then wait for twenty years. Only four hundred new members are admitted each year. But if you’re a VIP, or have influential friends in the right places, you can usually contrive to jump the queue.

Much of the MCC’s clout derives from its ownership of Lord’s, which the club incessantly proclaims to be ‘the home of cricket’. This assertion involves a distorting simplification of cricket’s early history. Lord’s was certainly one of the most important grounds in the development of cricket from rural pastime to national sport, but far from the only one. The vast majority of pioneering cricketers never played there – partly because only some of them were based in London.
[...]
Nevertheless, Lord’s gives the MCC influence, which is manifested in two main ways. Firstly, the club has a permanent seat on the fourteen-member ECB Board – the most senior decision-making tier of English cricket. In other words, a private club – both unaccountable to, and exclusive from, the general cricketing public – has a direct say in the way our game is run. No other organisation of its kind enjoys this privilege. The MCC is not elected to this position – neither you nor I have any say in the matter – which it is free to use in furtherance of its own interests.


It was widely reported that, in April 2007, MCC ’s then chief executive Keith Bradshaw played a leading part in the removal of Duncan Fletcher as England coach. If so, why? What business was it of his?

The MCC is cricket ’s version of a hereditary peer – less an accident of history, but a convenient political arrangement between the elite powerbrokers of the English game. The reasoning goes like this: because once upon a time the MCC used to run everything, well, it wouldn’t really do to keep them out completely, would it? Especially as they’re such damn good chaps.

Why should the MCC alone enjoy so special a status, and no other of the thousands of cricket clubs in England? What’s so virtuous about it, compared to the club you or I belong to – which is almost certainly easier to join and more accessible.

What’s even more eccentric about the MCC ’s place on the ECB board is that the entire county game only has three representatives. In the ECB’s reckoning, therefore, one private cricket club (which competes in no first-class competitions) deserves to have one-third of the power allocated to all eighteen counties and their supporters in their entirety.

The second stratum of MCC’s power lies in its role as custodian of the Laws of Cricket. The club decides – for the whole world – how the game shall be played, and what the rules are. From Dhaka to Bridgetown, every cricketer across the globe must conform to a code laid down in St John’s Wood, and – sorry to keep repeating this point, but it’s integral – by a private organisation in which they have no say.

Admittedly, the ICC is now also involved in any revisions to the Laws, but the MCC have the final say, and own the copyright

https://www.thefulltoss.com/england-cricket-blog/mcc-the-greatest-anachronism-of-english-cricket/
Not an 'old boys' network eh?

I'm sure if one were to look at the (usually private) schooling and social backgrounds of the majority of the judges in this country, you'll again find that it's highly tilted towards those of privileged backgrounds, which also has a strong thread of the 'old boy' network running through it.

As for the notion of privileged backgrounds of the majority of Tory MP's and most of the Cabinet ministers .... you're suggesting that it's a conspiracy theory to even suggest that is the case?
 
Here, read this. It gives a flavour, albeit not conclusive proof, of the nature of who/what runs english cricket.

Not an 'old boys' network eh?

I'm sure if one were to look at the (usually private) schooling and social backgrounds of the majority of the judges in this country, you'll again find that it's highly tilted towards those of privileged backgrounds, which also has a strong thread of the 'old boy' network running through it.

As for the notion of privileged backgrounds of the majority of Tory MP's and most of the Cabinet ministers .... you're suggesting that it's a conspiracy theory to even suggest that is the case?

Good read.

Scyld Berry researched this several years ago and found that less than 25% of England Test players in recent times were homegrown state school products. The rest were either private school boys, or born overseas, or both. This is despite 93% of English people attending state school. Pretty disgraceful stuff.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cr...-that-England-is-letting-through-the-net.html
 
Here, read this. It gives a flavour, albeit not conclusive proof, of the nature of who/what runs english cricket.

Not an 'old boys' network eh?

I'm sure if one were to look at the (usually private) schooling and social backgrounds of the majority of the judges in this country, you'll again find that it's highly tilted towards those of privileged backgrounds, which also has a strong thread of the 'old boy' network running through it.

As for the notion of privileged backgrounds of the majority of Tory MP's and most of the Cabinet ministers .... you're suggesting that it's a conspiracy theory to even suggest that is the case?

Ok, that's the MCC not the ECB. It has been a long time since the MCC had a role in English cricket. I think the last significant thing they did was to block Mike Gatting's reappointment to the captaincy in 1988. The MCC owns and runs one cricket ground.
 
Ok, that's the MCC not the ECB. It has been a long time since the MCC had a role in English cricket. I think the last significant thing they did was to block Mike Gatting's reappointment to the captaincy in 1988. The MCC owns and runs one cricket ground.

You will surprised to know that MCC owns the copyright to cricketing rules.No rule can be changed or applied without their consent.
 
Ok, that's the MCC not the ECB. It has been a long time since the MCC had a role in English cricket. I think the last significant thing they did was to block Mike Gatting's reappointment to the captaincy in 1988. The MCC owns and runs one cricket ground.
You presumably did read either my post (in which parts of the article were highlighted) and/or read the article in the link provided?

If so, how did you manage to miss the following since you're claiming "Ok, that's the MCC not the ECB. It has been a long time since the MCC had a role in English cricket"?

What’s even more eccentric about the MCC ’s place on the ECB board is that the entire county game only has three representatives. In the ECB’s reckoning, therefore, one private cricket club (which competes in no first-class competitions) deserves to have one-third of the power allocated to all eighteen counties and their supporters in their entirety.
 
So let MCC show the power by going against ICC recommended rules.
They don't need to. As [MENTION=76058]cricketjoshila[/MENTION] has said, and as the article above stated, the MCC owns the copyright. You do know what copyright means don't you?
 
They don't need to. As [MENTION=76058]cricketjoshila[/MENTION] has said, and as the article above stated, the MCC owns the copyright. You do know what copyright means don't you?

The indian president has veto power regarding bills. You do know what veto power is don't you?

Let MCC go against ICC then come and talk. Till it doesn't it is fair to assume that it toes the ICC's line.
 
The indian president has veto power regarding bills. You do know what veto power is don't you?

Let MCC go against ICC then come and talk. Till it doesn't it is fair to assume that it toes the ICC's line.
You still don't get it. If in the unlikely event the ICC were to push the MCC too far, the MCC could turn around and say that they are withdrawing the right for the ICC to use their copyrighted laws of the game of cricket. Meaning cricket as we know it will cease to exist, since the ICC will need to rewrite a new set of rules such that they bear no resemblance to the laws of the game as it exists now.

Whereas the Indian president can simply be removed/replaced, and a new one appointed.
 
This kid won't last a day in prison
 
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