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If Pakistan had faced India in Test cricket over the last decade

Nikhil_cric said:
I dont think that's true. Pakistan was a notoriously difficult place to tour between 1980 and 1995. Everybody acknowledges that. But since then, Pakistan lost around 8 series at home drew a few more, so that aura of invincibility was lost. Which is probably why despite Whitewashing the Saffers, I would say that tip 4 sides would have a chance of not only doing well but can beat Pakistan in Pakistan as well.
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My point was in relation to teams being dominant at home, people mention WI, Aus and India so pakistan should have been mentioned.

Right now pakistan does indeed need to start being strong at home again.
 
szrana007 said:
From 1995-2000, Pakistan lost 6 series at home. But in the last 2 decades, lost only 2 series at home, have a W/L ratio of 3.4 in Pakistan in the last 20 years, which is pretty good.
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In the period you are talking about, a lot of series were played in UAE. And atleast 2001 and 2008, I think Pakistan did not play any home series at all. So it's hard to judge imo. 1995-2000 was a particularly bad period no doubt.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
In the period you are talking about, a lot of series were played in UAE. And atleast 2001 and 2008, I think Pakistan did not play any home series at all. So it's hard to judge imo. 1995-2000 was a particularly bad period no doubt.
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Since 2001, Pakistan have won 9 series in Pakistan, drew 2 series and lost 2 series and they have a W/L ratio of 3.4, which is only behind India and Australia in the last 2 decades.

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...2001;spanval1=span;template=results;type=team
 
Nikhil_cric said:
In the period you are talking about, a lot of series were played in UAE. And atleast 2001 and 2008, I think Pakistan did not play any home series at all. So it's hard to judge imo. 1995-2000 was a particularly bad period no doubt.
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We had some pretty shameful home defeats to zimbos and england in that time period. The series loss to england in manner in which it was lost goes down as most shameful home series defeat for pakistan ever.
 
Amjid Javed said:
My point was in relation to teams being dominant at home, people mention WI, Aus and India so pakistan should have been mentioned.

Right now pakistan does indeed need to start being strong at home again.
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India are mentioned because thet are comfortably the most dominant home side currently , Australia because they were the most dominant side when a lot of Ppers were growing up with the sport and the West Indies seems to have been everyone's favourite neutral team.

For what its worth, England has has a pretty good home record in recent years as they have not lost their last 12 series at hone but no one seems to mention it because Indias home record is even better. Pakistan had a great home record at a time when Windies had one possibly even better.
 
Amjid Javed said:
We had some pretty shameful home defeats to zimbos and england in that time period. The series loss to england in manner in which it was lost goes down as most shameful home series defeat for pakistan ever.
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More to do with politics, infighting and matchfixing imo. Otherwise the Pak team of that time was quite strong on paper.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
India are mentioned because thet are comfortably the most dominant home side currently , Australia because they were the most dominant side when a lot of Ppers were growing up with the sport and the West Indies seems to have been everyone's favourite neutral team.

For what its worth, England has has a pretty good home record in recent years as they have not lost their last 12 series at hone but no one seems to mention it because Indias home record is even better. Pakistan had a great home record at a time when Windies had one possibly even better.
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England are 13 consecutive series unbeaten at home currently since 2014.
 
Amjid Javed said:
My point was in relation to teams being dominant at home, people mention WI, Aus and India so pakistan should have been mentioned.

Right now pakistan does indeed need to start being strong at home again.
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Pakistan also were 10 consecutive series unbeaten from 2009-2017 at home, if you count UAE as home. But ofcourse that can't be done as UAE is a neutral venue.
 
szrana007 said:
Since 2001, Pakistan have won 9 series in Pakistan, drew 2 series and lost 2 series and they have a W/L ratio of 3.4, which is only behind India and Australia in the last 2 decades.

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...2001;spanval1=span;template=results;type=team
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Pakistans is a weird case because for majority of the last decade, UAE was home. Difficult to compare with other teams. Having said that , Pakistan's test team is looking stronger than it has in over 4 yests and I expect a strong home record in the future.
 
szrana007 said:
India only played 3 series in Asia from 2014-15, while Pak played 6 series, so W/L ratios are skewed due to that.

But if you look at the number of matches played in Asia for both teams from 2014-15

Pakistan in Asia (from 2014-15)

Matches Played 18
Matches Won 9
Matches Lost 5
Matches Drawn 4

W/L ratio = 1.8

India in Asia (from 2014-15)

Matches Played 8
Matches Won 5
Matches Lost 1
Matches Drawn 2

W/L ratio of 5.0

So Pakistan played almost 3 times the number of matches in Asia compared to India, their W/L ratio is bound to be lower.

Anyway, Pakistan's W/L ratio is much lower because they lost 0-2 to a stronger Sri Lanka in 2014. And thats my point as well that India didn't face a stronger SL side in SL.
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Stronger SL? isn't that time Junaids starts a thread called Runs against SL don't count?
 
Amjid Javed said:
My point was in relation to teams being dominant at home, people mention WI, Aus and India so pakistan should have been mentioned.

Right now pakistan does indeed need to start being strong at home again.
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People forget New Zealand as well. NZL went 13 consecutive series unbeaten from 1980-1991. A truly golden period for them.

For comparison the current NZL team is 8 consecutive series unbeaten at home since 2017, and they have won all of the. Would be interesting to see if the current NZL team can break the 13 series unbeaten record achieved by Hadlee and Co. from 1980-1991.
 
Ab Fan said:
Half a team? They played with their best team in most matches.A great bowler like Broad was nullified completely and other England players always found it hard against India even though we just came from a tiring series win in Australia.

India were missing Jadeja and Shami/Yadav and also missed Axar in first test otherwise this would have been 4-0 for India. I am not too sure about Pakistan better than England in Asia as you guys lost to Kiwis in Asia a year and half ago and England are comfortably better than NZ in subcontinent.
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NZ have done well vs Pakistan in all series in UAE. England even as number 1 team in world at one point have been smashed by pakistan in UAE and in pakistan.

So pretty stupid comparision of how england and NZ would fare.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
India are mentioned because thet are comfortably the most dominant home side currently , Australia because they were the most dominant side when a lot of Ppers were growing up with the sport and the West Indies seems to have been everyone's favourite neutral team.

For what its worth, England has has a pretty good home record in recent years as they have not lost their last 12 series at hone but no one seems to mention it because Indias home record is even better. Pakistan had a great home record at a time when Windies had one possibly even better.
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England and NZ both have excellent home records over last few years. Ive mentioned it on another thread when mamoon was raving about how difficult a place Australia is to win. Yet england and NZ have better home records recently then the Aussies.
 
All the time we hear how engand have a stronger test side then pakistan and when they tour they will win. England have won 2 tests in pakistan/UAE thats all.

2005 and 2012 - england had a miles better team and got hammered. We will hear same rubbish from england and indian fans next time england tours aswell.
 
Amjid Javed said:
All the time we hear how engand have a stronger test side then pakistan and when they tour they will win. England have won 2 tests in pakistan/UAE thats all.

2005 and 2012 - england had a miles better team and got hammered. We will hear same rubbish from england and indian fans next time england tours aswell.
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Australia also won a Test match in Pakistan after 40 years, lol, the last time they toured Pak in 1998.
 
India lost 9/11 SENA series in 2010-2020 while Pakistan lost 6/8.

2 strongest captains in the decade from both sides were Misbah and Kohli. Misbah has very similar test record to Virat Kohli in win ratio.

Misbah-PAK

26/56 @ 47 % win rate, 27% win rate in SENA. Individual average of 52.

Kohli-IND

35/60 @ 58.3 % win rate @ 21% win rate in SENA. Individual average 60.2

Pakistani fans are ungrateful and never care for stats. Like I always say our side is no world champion but it does not do as bad as we think it does. I believe in stats not woulda/shoulda/coulda theories but if anyone believes that Misbah-UAE fortress would have been breached by a team that lost 9/11 times in SENA in the last decade then they are delusional.
 
BreadPakoda said:
I guess one of you is including Pakistan’s home games in SL.
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Yeah, he is including one match played in Colombo in 2002 vs Aus and also including the 2 matches played in England vs Aus in 2010 and then telling me that I am wrong,lol

I guess some people just can't accept their mistakes.
 
MesonK said:
India lost 9/11 SENA series in 2010-2020 while Pakistan lost 6/8.

2 strongest captains in the decade from both sides were Misbah and Kohli. Misbah has very similar test record to Virat Kohli in win ratio.

Misbah-PAK

26/56 @ 47 % win rate, 27% win rate in SENA. Individual average of 52.

Kohli-IND

35/60 @ 58.3 % win rate @ 21% win rate in SENA. Individual average 60.2

Pakistani fans are ungrateful and never care for stats. Like I always say our side is no world champion but it does not do as bad as we think it does. I believe in stats not woulda/shoulda/coulda theories but if anyone believes that Misbah-UAE fortress would have been breached by a team that lost 9/11 times in SENA in the last decade then they are delusional.
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Stats without context is useless. Yes it would make total sense to compare the SENA performance of both teams and make an extrapolation on their performances in Asia.

All your stats say that Pakistan has had slightly better retuns in SENA under Misbah than Kohli numbers wise. Why would the poor record of India in SENA affect the ability of India to compete in Asia, makes zero sense. I mean, the common phrase that was used to describe India in the past was "lions at home, lambs abroad". So even when they were terrible outside asia, they always had a great record at home.
 
street cricketer said:
Stats without context is useless. Yes it would make total sense to compare the SENA performance of both teams and make an extrapolation on their performances in Asia.

All your stats say that Pakistan has had slightly better retuns in SENA under Misbah than Kohli numbers wise. Why would the poor record of India in SENA affect the ability of India to compete in Asia, makes zero sense. I mean, the common phrase that was used to describe India in the past was "lions at home, lambs abroad". So even when they were terrible outside asia, they always had a great record at home.
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Not only that. This guy usually comes up with the most bogus stats. The whole world compares WL ratio and he comes up with win %. I'm sure if we go by WL ratio Kohli performs better than Misbah in SENA - and I'm not even checking. Coz if he didn't, this poster wouldn't be sharing win %.
 
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MesonK said:
India lost 9/11 SENA series in 2010-2020 while Pakistan lost 6/8.

2 strongest captains in the decade from both sides were Misbah and Kohli. Misbah has very similar test record to Virat Kohli in win ratio.

Misbah-PAK

26/56 @ 47 % win rate, 27% win rate in SENA. Individual average of 52.

Kohli-IND

35/60 @ 58.3 % win rate @ 21% win rate in SENA. Individual average 60.2

Pakistani fans are ungrateful and never care for stats. Like I always say our side is no world champion but it does not do as bad as we think it does. I believe in stats not woulda/shoulda/coulda theories but if anyone believes that Misbah-UAE fortress would have been breached by a team that lost 9/11 times in SENA in the last decade then they are delusional.
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Misbah's Pakistan was a stronger side than the Indian team from 2012 until the retirement of the old guard. However, performances outside of Asia are not relevant to this discussion.
 
street cricketer said:
Pak got whitewashed in Sri Lanka the previous year while India won the series in Lanka in 2015 (should've been a whitewash really if not for a bottlejob and an incredible innings by Chandimal at Galle). Pak also drew with Lanka and NZ in the UAE, I might be wrong but I don't think Lanka has ever won a single test in India in their test cricket history, and the last time the Kiwis won a test in India, Sir Hadlee and Kapil Dev were locking horns.

Kohli's India has arguably the greatest home record in the history of test cricket. They are yet to lose to a single side, and it's not just that, but they've won every single series they've played in Kohli's tenure. It would be interesting to compare how India's home record under Kohli stacks up against the home record of the Great Australians or the West Indians. India drew with Australia in 2003 and Pak drew with WI in '88, no side gas ever even drawn a single series against India under Kohli. That's how ruthless they've been. I mean you can criticise India's record outside Asia and it would be warranted, but the home record is something that will stay in the records for years to come.
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Pakistan beat Sri Lanka 2-1 in 2015, the same team that India beat. 2015 was when Sri Lanka's old guard were out and they have never been the same team since. Bringing up a defeat at a hands of a much stronger team, that too a year prior, makes no sense.

Both Misbah and Kohli had an impeccable home record. This is precisely because neither had to deal with the challenge of facing the other's team. Had these series taken place, things would have been much different. It's one thing to prepare dust bowls and put teams like England and Australia to the sword but its a completely different game when you have to go it against the likes of Saeed Ajmal and Yasir Shah.

Markhor said:
Not even 4 hours and already 2 pages :))
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Given the emotional state of some "fans" here, I'm surprised this thread wasn't locked and/or deleted. I mean how can someone even begin to suggest India could be beaten home and away by a team with better batsmen against spin, better spinners and a better captain for Asian conditions?
 
Bilal7 said:
Misbah's Pakistan was a stronger side than the Indian team from 2012 until the retirement of the old guard. However, performances outside of Asia are not relevant to this discussion.
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In Asia, Misbah’s Pakistan drew 1-1 with New Zealand in 2015 and lost a Test to West Indies in 2016.

Performances outside Asia may not be relevant in this context but you cannot ignore the humiliation of losing a Test and drawing a series in Zimbabwe in 2013 with Younis, Misbah, Ajmal, Abdur Rehman, Shafiq, Azhar, Junaid, Hafeez etc. all playing. It was our first-choice team.

Pakistan has not been a better Test side than India since 2006-2007 when we had a middle-order of Younis, Yousuf and Inzamam with the likes of Asif in the bowling attack.
 
A strong Sri Lankan team with Sangakkara, Jayawardene, Herath etc. came within half an hour from winning defeating Pakistan in the UAE in 2014. Pakistan barely avoided a series defeat which ended 1-1.

That Sri Lanka team got smashed every time they played India in India.

It is Misbah’s Pakistan great fortune that it never got to face India in UAE. They would have been rinsed. They faced only one decent Asian team in the UAE and they stuttered.
 
In last 10 years only 2012-13 and 2015-16 is when I would have backed Pakistan to beat India in a test series
 
street cricketer said:
Pak got whitewashed in Sri Lanka the previous year while India won the series in Lanka in 2015 (should've been a whitewash really if not for a bottlejob and an incredible innings by Chandimal at Galle). Pak also drew with Lanka and NZ in the UAE, I might be wrong but I don't think Lanka has ever won a single test in India in their test cricket history, and the last time the Kiwis won a test in India, Sir Hadlee and Kapil Dev were locking horns.

Kohli's India has arguably the greatest home record in the history of test cricket. They are yet to lose to a single side, and it's not just that, but they've won every single series they've played in Kohli's tenure. It would be interesting to compare how India's home record under Kohli stacks up against the home record of the Great Australians or the West Indians. India drew with Australia in 2003 and Pak drew with WI in '88, no side gas ever even drawn a single series against India under Kohli. That's how ruthless they've been. I mean you can criticise India's record outside Asia and it would be warranted, but the home record is something that will stay in the records for years to come.
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Markhor said:
Not even 4 hours and already 2 pages :))
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Mamoon said:
In Asia, Misbah’s Pakistan drew 1-1 with New Zealand in 2015 and lost a Test to West Indies in 2016.

Performances outside Asia may not be relevant in this context but you cannot ignore the humiliation of losing a Test and drawing a series in Zimbabwe in 2013 with Younis, Misbah, Ajmal, Abdur Rehman, Shafiq, Azhar, Junaid, Hafeez etc. all playing. It was our first-choice team.

Pakistan has not been a better Test side than India since 2006-2007 when we had a middle-order of Younis, Yousuf and Inzamam with the likes of Asif in the bowling attack.
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India were humbled by England, lost a test match to O'Keefe and their batting has been undone time and time again by absolutely garbage test bowlers and part-timers. Neither India nor Pakistan have been perfect in the last decade, which is why pretending that this is a one-sided wash is silly.

That loss to Zimbabwe was definitely humiliating but I would again reiterate that these hypothetical series would be played in India, Pakistan and the UAE. Therefore, it is as irrelevant to this discussion as Ashwin's pathetic record in SENA.

That is your opinion. It is also your opinion that Virat Kohli is the GOAT Asian test captain, Ashwin is the GOAT Asian test all-rounder and I believe you also crowned a man with 19 caps the GOAT Asian test wicket-keeper. I respect it but do not think that it is true, based on the evidence.

Pakistan were better in all aspects in 2012 and although India closed the gap in 2015, Pakistan were still ahead with Misbah, Younis and Yasir Shah at their best. In 2018, India were the established team and Pakistan was in transition, which is why it would have been a one-sided loss for the men in green. 2021 would be a close encounter, given the weaknesses of both teams.
 
Pakistan played 8 tests in 2015, all in Asia, and only lost one. Their batting was extremely strong with Hafeez, Azhar, Younis, Shafiq and Sarfaraz all averaging 50-60, Misbah was captaining well and Shah was the world's best spinner. They beat Sri Lanka and Bangladesh handily and ate England for lunch, as usual.

A year later, they were officially crowned the best team in the world. So yes, I'm confident that India would have lost had they played Pakistan in the UAE during that period.
 
Bilal7 said:
Misbah never lost a "home" series. Neither has Kohli, which is why both have an impeccable record.
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Impeccable = without flaws.

Misbah's side lost by an innings to Mark Carig's New Zealand, couldn't beat either NZ or SL in the UAE. That's incomparable to Kohli's record in asia.
 
street cricketer said:
Impeccable = without flaws.

Misbah's side lost by an innings to Mark Carig's New Zealand, couldn't beat either NZ or SL in the UAE. That's incomparable to Kohli's record in asia.
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Kohli lost home tests to O'Keefe and Dom Bess. By your definition, neither are impeccable at home.

By my definition, being unbeaten in a series for several years is pretty darn impeccable.
 
Bilal7 said:
Kohli lost home tests to O'Keefe and Dom Bess. By your definition, neither are impeccable at home.

By my definition, being unbeaten in a series for several years is pretty darn impeccable.
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But he still won those series. :rabada2:

On the other hand, Misbah couldn't win series against --

South Africa (twice)
Sri Lanka
New Zealand

That puts a pretty big asterix on his "unbeaten record" compared to Kohli's.
 
The amount of delusion on this thread is amazing . I just hope the Indian Govt allows a test series to happen now, so that the true gap between the teams becomes apparent .

And I don’t think Pak would have beaten India anytime in the last decade . That’s like saying India would have won a test series against Pakistan in the 90’s
 
I agree Pak would have been competitive in 2012 , but a whitewash is simply day dreaming . It took innings like KP’s 186 in Mumbai to achieve that victory . Maybe Saeed Anwar or Inzamam could have played like that
 
Bilal7 said:
Kohli lost home tests to O'Keefe and Dom Bess. By your definition, neither are impeccable at home.

By my definition, being unbeaten in a series for several years is pretty darn impeccable.
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Pakistan's best claim is it's unbeaten record (even that's flawed as they lost to SL in 2014, but let's ignore that for argument sake).

India's best claim is that it's not just unbeaten but beat every side they faced up in a series (not even drawn, but winning series consecutively) unlike Pakistan which couldn't beat NZ and SL.

Not the same.
 
Amjid Javed said:
NZ have done well vs Pakistan in all series in UAE. England even as number 1 team in world at one point have been smashed by pakistan in UAE and in pakistan.

So pretty stupid comparision of how england and NZ would fare.
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England are the 2nd best side in Asian conditions, make no mistake about that. They whitewashed SL and actually won a test in India. Better than other Asian sides even in Asian conditions.
 
Just check The margin of Pak’s defeats to
India in ICC ODI tournaments ( Except CT 2017 final ) . And you think they would best India in a test series .

Of course you may say India defeated Pak in WC games in the 90’s too , but those were close games which looked like going either way . But all the recent matches have been so one sided
 
Mesozoic said:
But he still won those series. :rabada2:

On the other hand, Misbah couldn't win series against --

South Africa (twice)
Sri Lanka
New Zealand

That puts a pretty big asterix on his "unbeaten record" compared to Kohli's.
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Misbah's team drew twice with Smith's South Africa, who were a great side. India also drew twice at home with Smith's South Africa in 2008 and 2010.

So drawing twice with Smith's SA ( a side who didn't lose a away series for 9 years was still creditable)

Sri Lanka too were a strong team in 2014, they won in England that year so drawing against them was fine too.

But I agree that New Zealand series shouldn't have been drawn, NZL wasn't that strong at that time.
 
vprasanna83 said:
Just check The margin of Pak’s defeats to
India in ICC ODI tournaments ( Except CT 2017 final ) . And you think they would best India in a test series .

Of course you may say India defeated Pak in WC games in the 90’s too , but those were close games which looked like going either way . But all the recent matches have been so one sided
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It really says something about the intelligence of a person when he uses the result of a one-off match in a different format as evidence of what would occur in a test series.

Mesozoic said:
But he still won those series. :rabada2:

On the other hand, Misbah couldn't win series against --

South Africa (twice)
Sri Lanka
New Zealand

That puts a pretty big asterix on his "unbeaten record" compared to Kohli's.
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There is no big "asterix" because Misbah's Pakistan was still unbeaten. Additionally, the last time G.Smith's South African team toured India, they destroyed India in the first test and came within a couple of overs of winning the series. Amla batted better than any non-Asian batsman ever has in India and Steyn wrecked the "Fab Four".

Pretty sure you had no idea that both Smith and Kallis were retired by 2015. Next time, do your research.
 
street cricketer said:
Pakistan's best claim is it's unbeaten record (even that's flawed as they lost to SL in 2014, but let's ignore that for argument sake).

India's best claim is that it's not just unbeaten but beat every side they faced up in a series (not even drawn, but winning series consecutively) unlike Pakistan which couldn't beat NZ and SL.

Not the same.
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India isn't unbeated in the timeframe I specified and this isn't about Misbah vs Kohli. A couple of drawn series do not make Pakistan an inferior side to India from 2011-2016.
 
Bilal7 said:
There is no big "asterix" because Misbah's Pakistan was still unbeaten. Additionally, the last time G.Smith's South African team toured India, they destroyed India in the first test and came within a couple of overs of winning the series. Amla batted better than any non-Asian batsman ever has in India and Steyn wrecked the "Fab Four".

Pretty sure you had no idea that both Smith and Kallis were retired by 2015. Next time, do your research.
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Don't know why you're saying all these..


You said both Misbah and Kohli had "impeccable home records" but the only one that deserved to be called impeccable was Kohli's as he won each and every series while Misbah had a bunch of 1-1 draws and had to share the series trophy with multiple teams. That's not quite an impeccable record I'm afraid. That's just a good record. Nothing impeccable or incredible about it. Just my opinion. Feel free to disagree.
 
Mesozoic said:
Don't know why you're saying all these..


You said both Misbah and Kohli had "impeccable home records" but the only one that deserved to be called impeccable was Kohli's as he won each and every series while Misbah had a bunch of 1-1 draws and had to share the series trophy with multiple teams. That's not quite an impeccable record I'm afraid. That's just a good record. Nothing impeccable or incredible about it. Just my opinion. Feel free to disagree.
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I do disagree. Being unbeaten at home for that long a stretch is pretty impeccable. That's the problem with two-match series, they often result in 1-1 draws. For example, had the current series consisted of two matches, this would have been a draw as well.

Regardless, Kohli's record may be better than Misbah's but this isn't the thread for it.
 
Bilal7 said:
India isn't unbeated in the timeframe I specified and this isn't about Misbah vs Kohli. A couple of drawn series do not make Pakistan an inferior side to India from 2011-2016.
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Not sure why the records from 2011 would matter for a match that happens in 2015, unless you believe the likes of Sehwag, Tendulkar, Dravid, Laxman, Yuvraj Singh and Zaheer Khan were going to play against Pakistan in 2015.
 
Forget history.
India is an extremely mediocre side like the rest of the world and if Pakistan played them today, anywhere in the world, chances are they would do very well.

The only thing India has going for itself is its massive population (which surely has to help in someway when it comes to finding cricketers with ability) and more money than sense.

Let's all draw the line here.

Shut the thread
 
IMMY69 said:
Forget history.
India is an extremely mediocre side like the rest of the world and if Pakistan played them today, anywhere in the world, chances are they would do very well.

The only thing India has going for itself is its massive population (which surely has to help in someway when it comes to finding cricketers with ability) and more money than sense.

Let's all draw the line here.

Shut the thread
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Extremely mediocre side that currently has more points than any Pakistan side in history has ever had :91:
 
Nikhil_cric said:
Extremely mediocre side that currently has more points than any Pakistan side in history has ever had :91:
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I am not sure why my fellow Pakistanis downplay this India's side achievements, I don't think Pakistan will ever win a series in Australia in the near future never mind 2 in a row. I don't even think Pakistan can win a test match in Australia in the near future either, the losing streak is too much :misbah:misbah:akhtar
 
ikky47 said:
I am not sure why my fellow Pakistanis downplay this India's side achievements, I don't think Pakistan will ever win a series in Australia in the near future never mind 2 in a row. I don't even think Pakistan can win a test match in Australia in the near future either, the losing streak is too much :misbah:misbah:akhtar
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The Pakistan test side is shaping up to be a good side but not sure why posters here think that it can beat any of the top 4 teams currently.

That 2-0 win over SA was impressive but one has to look at the context. Saffers were much more competitive in Pakistan umlike in SL where they lost by bigger margins and were absolutely blasted into oblivion in India.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
The Pakistan test side is shaping up to be a good side but not sure why posters here think that it can beat any of the top 4 teams currently.

That 2-0 win over SA was impressive but one has to look at the context. Saffers were much more competitive in Pakistan umlike in SL where they lost by bigger margins and were absolutely blasted into oblivion in India.
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I think we are a work in progress, the real tests will be how we do in West Indies this summer and then we have Aus, NZ and Eng due to tour Pak within the next few years. If we manage to win them series which is a big IF then maybe we can rise up the rankings but a lot to be done. But in the mean time some of my fellow Pakistani posters can dream about beating India in a test match :afridi1:yk3

But England haven't beaten Pakistan in an away series since 2001 so when they tour in 2022 it should be a interesting series that's for sure. Some of the recent UAE series were quite close.
 
ikky47 said:
I am not sure why my fellow Pakistanis downplay this India's side achievements, I don't think Pakistan will ever win a series in Australia in the near future never mind 2 in a row. I don't even think Pakistan can win a test match in Australia in the near future either, the losing streak is too much :misbah:misbah:akhtar
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ikky47 said:
I think we are a work in progress, the real tests will be how we do in West Indies this summer and then we have Aus, NZ and Eng due to tour Pak within the next few years. If we manage to win them series which is a big IF then maybe we can rise up the rankings but a lot to be done. But in the mean time some of my fellow Pakistani posters can dream about beating India in a test match :afridi1:yk3

But England haven't beaten Pakistan in an away series since 2001 so when they tour in 2022 it should be a interesting series that's for sure. Some of the recent UAE series were quite close.
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Very smart of you to bring Eng, Aus and NZ into a thread where people are discussing India vs Pakistan. :inti
 
I know that this indian team would whitewash pakistan in test cricket anywhere in the world , still i want to see pakistan play this all time great team. Pakistan fans are so unlucky to not see their team playing against this indian team.
 
street cricketer said:
Not sure why the records from 2011 would matter for a match that happens in 2015, unless you believe the likes of Sehwag, Tendulkar, Dravid, Laxman, Yuvraj Singh and Zaheer Khan were going to play against Pakistan in 2015.
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They wouldn't but I'm just making clear that Pakistan was the better test side in Asia from 2011-2016.

Pakistan were pretty unbeatable in the UAE in 2015 and would beat India as well.
 
Bilal7 said:
They wouldn't but I'm just making clear that Pakistan was the better test side in Asia from 2011-2016.

Pakistan were pretty unbeatable in the UAE in 2015 and would beat India as well.
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Evidence says different but let's go with your statement.
 
The Indian government refusing allow BCCI to play bilateral cricket with PCB over the past decade is the best thing that has happened to the dignity and respect of Pakistan cricket.

With India thrashing us home and away every 2 years, Pakistan cricket would have been close to extinction by now.

Pakistani fans can’t show enough gratitude to the Indian government.
 
It's a good time not to be playing against India in Test cricket.

Their team is ahead of Pakistan in most facets these days.

Sad reality.
 
Saj said:
It's a good time not to be playing against India in Test cricket.

Their team is ahead of Pakistan in most facets these days.

Sad reality.
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I don't think it's the right approach. Even with defeats in bilateral series, I think consistently playing against India would have been good for Pakistani players in terms of getting familiar with opposition players and also learning how to cope with the pressure of Indo Pakistan matches.
 
Bilal7 said:
Inspired by some of the discussion in a different thread. I believe we would have seen some good Asian cricket had Pakistan and India faced off in whites. Imagine that we had test series in 2012, 2015, 2018 and 2021, with the series alternating between India and the UAE/Pakistan. For me, this is how I see things playing out:

2012 - Played in India.

Pakistan were clearly a stronger side in 2012, especially in Asia. I see this being a pretty one-sided series with Pakistan dominating in all aspects. Nothing else to say on this one.

Scoreline: 3-0 for Pakistan.
Man of the Series: Saeed Ajmal.

2015 - Played in the UAE.

Pakistan are still the stronger side, although several, previously average Indian players have now become world class. With this series being contested on the flat pitches of the UAE, it would have been run-fest after run-fest with Pakistan winning.

Scoreline: 2-0 for Pakistan, with one draw.
Man of the Series: Younis Khan.

2018 - Played in India.

We now see witness the tables turning with India coming into this series as the stronger side, with more established, world-class test players, while Pakistan is a team in transition. India would probably dominate the weaker batting of the opposition. However, I can foresee the Pakistani spinners causing massive problems on Indian pitches.

Scoreline: 3:0 to India.
Man of the Series: Ravi Ashwin.

2021 - Played in Pakistan.

This would probably have been the closest series, with two flawed teams battling in Pakistan. I can foresee the Pakistani curators taking away India's advantage in the spin department which would make it a battle between the pacers and the batsmen. Given that its in Pakistan though, I also expect some big innings.

Scoreline: 1-1 draw, 1 drawn test.
Man of the Match: Rohit Sharma/Babar Azam
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Your best side of 1999 could hardly beat the weakest indian side, but you actually believe pakistan had what it takes to beat india 3-0 in 2012? 😆....1-1 draw with India after drawing with a club associate team like windies? 👍
 
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Yeah, Pakistan lost to Sri Lanka in 2012, who - while a decent side, where not as tough to beat at home as India.

My guess for series scorelines

2012: 3-0 India
2015: 2-1 India
2018: 3:0 India
2021: 3:0 India
 
India would have tanked us. Good time for us to be on bad terms with them.
 
India has an average batting lineup but their current bowling is probably the most complete in cricket history. The pacers never fail in SENA and the spinners (Ashwin and Jadeja) are godlike in subcontinent.
 
We would be on the same level, India have been trying to destroy Pakistan cricket under a political excuse for years, but despite how poor we can be we’re still here!
 
Joseph Gomes said:
India has an average batting lineup but their current bowling is probably the most complete in cricket history. The pacers never fail in SENA and the spinners (Ashwin and Jadeja) are godlike in subcontinent.
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2nd highest away batting average from amongst current teams since January 2019. Australia has the highest but they have only played 1 away series- Ashes 2019 . This is a bowling era with spicy pitches and good bowlers.
 
Thephenom said:
We would be on the same level, India have been trying to destroy Pakistan cricket under a political excuse for years, but despite how poor we can be we’re still here!
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So Indians forced Misbah and Waqar to leave just 2 months before the WC, and asked Wasim to select Asif Ali.
Get over yourself, PCB and Pakistan cricket holds no importance for BCCI and GOI. It is a non existent entity in there mind.
 
India needs to Play Pakistan in Test series to showcase if they are really one of the GOAT sides

Considering that Pakistan always ups their game compared to how they play against other oppositions , India needs to have a home or away test series to really see if India is a GOAT side. Considering how meek of a rivarly Ashes has become, India vs Pakistan 3 or 5 match test series will not only revive Test Cricket but if India wins comprehensively show that they really are the best test side in any condition.
 
realitygaf said:
Considering that Pakistan always ups their game compared to how they play against other oppositions , India needs to have a home or away test series to really see if India is a GOAT side. Considering how meek of a rivarly Ashes has become, India vs Pakistan 3 or 5 match test series will not only revive Test Cricket but if India wins comprehensively show that they really are the best test side in any condition.
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No please we’re **** India would eat us like a piece of in test cricket it’s not even close please delete this thread regardless of what conditions we play them in we cannot beat them in test cricket. T20s or Odis we can not in tests
 
realitygaf said:
Considering that Pakistan always ups their game compared to how they play against other oppositions , India needs to have a home or away test series to really see if India is a GOAT side. Considering how meek of a rivarly Ashes has become, India vs Pakistan 3 or 5 match test series will not only revive Test Cricket but if India wins comprehensively show that they really are the best test side in any condition.
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The Benchmark for the Greatest of the all-time team(Aus/WI) is too high. Indians are nowhere close to that benchmark.

Playing or not playing Pakistan won't prove anything. Pakistan itself is a poor test team.
 
Buffet said:
The Benchmark for the Greatest of the all-time team(Aus/WI) is too high. Indians are nowhere close to that benchmark.

Playing or not playing Pakistan won't prove anything. Pakistan itself is a poor test team.
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We are improving. I wouldn't say we are poor. Definitely top 4 or 5.
 
India needs to beat SA in this test and then beat NZ in NZ. Playing Pakistan or not makes no difference.
 
india not playing pak over the last 14 years coincided with probably the strongest india team and the weakest pak team, eventually when they do play again both teams will be much closer in skill levels. as it is india would beat pak over 6 tests.

however india and their fans know Pakistan is the only team who could possibly adapt to and challenge india in indian conditions, the players know the conditions as was evident when they won the last odi series both teams played, with the pak team with pretty much no world class players apart from saeed ajmal.
 
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