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I'm coming to India

Suleiman

Suleiman

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Will be going to India this summer, Goa mainly to hang out, see what's all the fuss about basically. And party, ofc :farhat

What should I expect? Is it like Pakistan? I'm going alone so I'm a little scared.

Initially I wanted to go there to fix things, but I'm not a humanitarian even though as a part American it's my job to help countries who are less fortunate, which I'll try to do.

But yes maybe if there is some IPL going on, will watch that too if it's in a nearby city.

Mainly going to check out Goa, Jaipur as I have relations there, as well as Bangalore.

From there will go to my cousin's house in Islamabad see what the fuss is about there as well. It's a new house and he always sells it like it is some palace, so why not stop by.

Will be interesting to see the change in people, environment etc when I depart from Bengaluru Intl Airport and land in Bhutto Intl Airport.
 
If you are going to be in Goa.... it's nothing like Pakistan, that much I can assure you. If you plan to spend time in Rajasthan then make sure you visit Bhangarh fort, apparently it's one of most spooky places in India.

Sent from my LG-H502 using Tapatalk
 
I think Goa is in South India, basically like Sri Lanka in every way.

Get ready for a culture shock
 
Smiling Creed said:
make sure you visit Bhangarh fort, apparently it's one of most spooky places in India.
Click to expand...

The Jinn thread has been dormant for a while. We could use some tales from this Bhangarh place. The name itself is spooky.
 
Don't go to Goa in summers.It would be raining heavily and you wouldn't be able to enjoy the beaches although if you like sceneries and natural beauties then it's all fine.The only good thing is you will find very few tourists therefore less crowd.The best time to visit Goa is between Nov to March.
 
Deosai said:
I think Goa is in South India, basically like Sri Lanka in every way.

Get ready for a culture shock
Click to expand...

Goa is very different from north India I agree but don't think he would complain as people are quite liberal and relaxed.But I get it where you are coming from .You won't see any burqa or hijabis there for sure.
 
Suleiman said:
Will be going to India this summer, Goa mainly to hang out, see what's all the fuss about basically. And party, ofc :farhat

What should I expect? Is it like Pakistan? I'm going alone so I'm a little scared.

Initially I wanted to go there to fix things, but I'm not a humanitarian even though as a part American it's my job to help countries who are less fortunate, which I'll try to do.

But yes maybe if there is some IPL going on, will watch that too if it's in a nearby city.

Mainly going to check out Goa, Jaipur as I have relations there, as well as Bangalore.

From there will go to my cousin's house in Islamabad see what the fuss is about there as well. It's a new house and he always sells it like it is some palace, so why not stop by.

Will be interesting to see the change in people, environment etc when I depart from Bengaluru Intl Airport and land in Bhutto Intl Airport.
Click to expand...
Where in Jaipur?
 
Come to kashmir too while you are at it.
Enjoy the raw beauty of nature along with the rich cuisine.

You can visit the city of temples jammu, or the cold desert Ladakh (mesmerizing , different than anything you will ever see and peaceful).

You can visit the enormous meadows in gulmarg, sonmarg, tangmarg, yousmarg etc and also other places like pehalgam. Upcoming destinations like bungas valley and dodhpatri are also enchanting.

Although the condition of dal lake was deteriorated by floods, locals have done enough to ensure the shikara (kashmiri boat) rides are still an experience that one would want to remember.

If you want adventure sports, we offer all levels of white water rafting, mountaineering, trekking, ice skating etc.

You can go for heritage walks as well in the vicinity of the city.

We have lots of offer. Come and give us a chance to host you. :)
 
Please share your experience about India and Pakistan once you return to your country.
 
Nostalgic said:
The Jinn thread has been dormant for a while. We could use some tales from this Bhangarh place. The name itself is spooky.
Click to expand...

There is notice by ASI on fort entrance - Remain after sun set at your own peril, Government doesn't takes any responsibility.
 
Smiling Creed said:
There is notice by ASI on fort entrance - Remain after sun set at your own peril, Government doesn't takes any responsibility.
Click to expand...

Shame on ASI for spreading superstition. Cant even take care of the monuments effectively and now are scaring people away as well.
 
TM Riddle said:
Goa is very different from north India I agree but don't think he would complain as people are quite liberal and relaxed.But I get it where you are coming from .You won't see any burqa or hijabis there for sure.
Click to expand...

Its not about burqa and niqab, those are more common among Indian Muslims than Pakistanis.

Its about the people and culture and Goa is very different from us. My dad's cousin even married a Goanese lady and his mother didn't approved as she considered it an inter racial marriage
 
Deosai said:
Its not about burqa and niqab, those are more common among Indian Muslims than Pakistanis.

Its about the people and culture and Goa is very different from us. My dad's cousin even married a Goanese lady and his mother didn't approved as she considered it an inter racial marriage
Click to expand...
Yeah we get it they are comparatively darker.No need for a made up story involving a fictional uncle and his mother.
 
Smiling Creed said:
There is notice by ASI on fort entrance - Remain after sun set at your own peril, Government doesn't takes any responsibility.
Click to expand...

Bhangarh is so overrated.I have visited that place many times and didn't find anything spooky .Great picnic spot though.
 
Madplayer said:
Come to kashmir too while you are at it.
Enjoy the raw beauty of nature along with the rich cuisine.

You can visit the city of temples jammu, or the cold desert Ladakh (mesmerizing , different than anything you will ever see and peaceful).

You can visit the enormous meadows in gulmarg, sonmarg, tangmarg, yousmarg etc and also other places like pehalgam. Upcoming destinations like bungas valley and dodhpatri are also enchanting.

Although the condition of dal lake was deteriorated by floods, locals have done enough to ensure the shikara (kashmiri boat) rides are still an experience that one would want to remember.

If you want adventure sports, we offer all levels of white water rafting, mountaineering, trekking, ice skating etc.

You can go for heritage walks as well in the vicinity of the city.

We have lots of offer. Come and give us a chance to host you. :)
Click to expand...

Wow just wow I would love to visit Kashmir sounds soooo fun and a lot to do. Shame we don't have all those activities in azad Kashmir
 
I'm coming to India
Click to expand...
[MENTION=136729]Suleiman[/MENTION] . No Indian visa problems I assume?
(if your parents or grandparents had links with Pakistan that is). Even if an Indian tourist visa is granted to those with family links to Pakistan (including US citizens) , it's not going to be one where you can roam from city to city at will. That's my understanding anyway.
 
Suleiman said:
Will be going to India this summer, Goa mainly to hang out, see what's all the fuss about basically. And party, ofc :farhat

What should I expect? Is it like Pakistan? I'm going alone so I'm a little scared.

Initially I wanted to go there to fix things, but I'm not a humanitarian even though as a part American it's my job to help countries who are less fortunate, which I'll try to do.

But yes maybe if there is some IPL going on, will watch that too if it's in a nearby city.

Mainly going to check out Goa, Jaipur as I have relations there, as well as Bangalore.

From there will go to my cousin's house in Islamabad see what the fuss is about there as well. It's a new house and he always sells it like it is some palace, so why not stop by.

Will be interesting to see the change in people, environment etc when I depart from Bengaluru Intl Airport and land in Bhutto Intl Airport.
Click to expand...

Sully coming to India?:srini

Do you have relatives to receive you in Goa? Trust you to hide your Goa visit from them:narine

Enjoy your visit. Btw you got visa with ease?
 
Goans are such chilled out people of India esp the Panji ones,always have a good time there "jo karna hai karo" attitude of most locals.
 
How did you get the VISA? :O

Anyways, GOA is fun :yk , different from South India (which is quite orthodox and boring personally for me apart from few nature spots)

I am surprised you are flying from Bangalore -> Islamabad directly? I fear it doesn't exist, you have to go via UAE/ Saudi/ Oman/ Qatar to PAK.

Enjoy your stay here :)
 
Madplayer said:
Come to kashmir too while you are at it.
Enjoy the raw beauty of nature along with the rich cuisine.

You can visit the city of temples jammu, or the cold desert Ladakh (mesmerizing , different than anything you will ever see and peaceful).

You can visit the enormous meadows in gulmarg, sonmarg, tangmarg, yousmarg etc and also other places like pehalgam. Upcoming destinations like bungas valley and dodhpatri are also enchanting.

Although the condition of dal lake was deteriorated by floods, locals have done enough to ensure the shikara (kashmiri boat) rides are still an experience that one would want to remember.

If you want adventure sports, we offer all levels of white water rafting, mountaineering, trekking, ice skating etc.

You can go for heritage walks as well in the vicinity of the city.

We have lots of offer. Come and give us a chance to host you. :)
Click to expand...

I want to visit the Pak side of Kashmir as a tourist, are we allowed ? :danish
 
Kashmirilion said:
Wow just wow I would love to visit Kashmir sounds soooo fun and a lot to do. Shame we don't have all those activities in azad Kashmir
Click to expand...

Yes the state's economy is dependent on tourism because the water resources are used by India for electricity generation and supplying it via northern grid to punjab, haryana etc.

I am sure Azad Kashmir has a lot of potential. I have seen some pictures and its amazing. Just needs more investments and attention.

Even J&K needs a more effective tourism machinery because considering the available resources, we are under achieving a lot. Even while not utilizing the resources fully, the concepts of sustainable tourism isnt followed. Room for improvement is massive.
 
Yeah I was gonna say you got the VISA ??? that itself is a big thing hope you wont be told to go back at the airport though... Enjoy India by embracing it rather than feeling paranoid and shocked at a million things happening around you all at once..........
 
Romali_rotti said:
Yeah I was gonna say you got the VISA ??? that itself is a big thing hope you wont be told to go back at the airport though... Enjoy India by embracing it rather than feeling paranoid and shocked at a million things happening around you all at once..........
Click to expand...

Why wont he get a VISA if he is an American? Correct me if i am wrong please.
 
cricketjoshila said:
If his father or Grandfather held Pakistani passport it will still be the same.He will be considered as a Pakistani.
Click to expand...

Okay i did not know that. He has said in his post he is part american i thought he is half pakistani and half american. Still if he has visited pakistan in the past the embassy/consulate would have made enquires and only then issued his visa. It would have been difficult for him to get a visa just based on the fact that he has visited pakistan in the past. really don't know how he got his visa
 
Anyone who has parents or grandparents born in what is now Pakistan will find it difficult.

Also, people who have been to Pakistan, albeit on other passports (i.e. non-Pakistani passport), will also find it difficult.

I went to Bombay last year for the company I work for - it took an age to get the visa processed, whereas it was a much quicker process for my colleagues.

For what its worth....Bombay is kind of like Karachi. Hotchpotch of different cultures, coastal city, and commercial centre. Some of the nicer areas are good, with buildings and architecture probably better than that of Karachi. But, the generally, the place is dirtier than Karachi, and has way more people.

Bearing in mind, I last visited Karachi 10 years ago.
 
Hope you have a nice and eventful trip.

Our school applied for a group visit to Mohenjo-daro and Harappa thrice at students' request (while I was there). The visas got rejected every time. Guess we need to be 1st citizens of another country to be able to visit.
 
cricketjoshila said:
If his father or Grandfather held Pakistani passport it will still be the same.He will be considered as a Pakistani.
Click to expand...

I heard something very interesting thing. From what I heard, it is the hardest when you yourself is a Pakistani born. I heard they don't go too hard on you if you were born and raised in North America despite being a Pakistani origin. My teacher highschool cricket coach has been to India and he was born in Canada.
 
cricketjoshila said:
If his father or Grandfather held Pakistani passport it will still be the same.He will be considered as a Pakistani.
Click to expand...

I also heard that if you tick "no" on an application that questions if you have any relations to Pakistan, they don't go too hard on you either. I kinda tend to believe it since India has a large muslim population as well. What do you think ?
 
Madplayer said:
Yes the state's economy is dependent on tourism because the water resources are used by India for electricity generation and supplying it via northern grid to punjab, haryana etc.

I am sure Azad Kashmir has a lot of potential. I have seen some pictures and its amazing. Just needs more investments and attention.

Even J&K needs a more effective tourism machinery because considering the available resources, we are under achieving a lot. Even while not utilizing the resources fully, the concepts of sustainable tourism isnt followed. Room for improvement is massive.
Click to expand...

Soooo true Kashmir as a whole has so much potential for tourism if the money is invested in to it from Pak or Indian governments and if we had no corruption and guaranteed safety for foreign tourist without a doubt would be in the top places to visit.
 
To the OP, if you are visiting for fun as a bachelor, Goa is the best place.

Indian women are conservative and if you are trying to hit on a few, you will be disappointed. Most night clubs do not allow single bachelors. You need to be with a girl. Otherwise, you will be stopped at the door.
Best way to enjoy night life is to get your own girl from South Africa.

Be sure to taste South Indian food when you visit Bangalore. Its awesome. Try Idli, Dosa, Sambar, Vada etc. They are heavenly when made fresh.
 
Lurker_Ind said:
To the OP, if you are visiting for fun as a bachelor, Goa is the best place.

Indian women are conservative and if you are trying to hit on a few, you will be disappointed. Most night clubs do not allow single bachelors. You need to be with a girl. Otherwise, you will be stopped at the door.
Best way to enjoy night life is to get your own girl from South Africa.

Be sure to taste South Indian food when you visit Bangalore. Its awesome. Try Idli, Dosa, Sambar, Vada etc. They are heavenly when made fresh.
Click to expand...

Yup. Don't forget on the Masala Dosa! [MENTION=136729]Suleiman[/MENTION]
 
Kashmirilion said:
Soooo true Kashmir as a whole has so much potential for tourism if the money is invested in to it from Pak or Indian governments and if we had no corruption and guaranteed safety for foreign tourist without a doubt would be in the top places to visit.
Click to expand...

First of all militancy need to end otherwise foreign tourists won't visit Kashmir but still foreigners visit safe places like ladakh. Domestic tourists are still going to JK in large numbers, few years before over 1 crore domestic tourists visited JK.
 
TM Riddle said:
Yeah we get it they are comparatively darker.No need for a made up story involving a fictional uncle and his mother.
Click to expand...

Its not made up, you Indians are color obsessed.

If it was about cor then then all o India is the samr as Goa
 
Don't let people know that you have Pakistani background. The entire city might be sane, but takes only one crazy person for things to go wrong.


Have fun and take pictures so that we can see what Goa is like, heard alot about it.
 
I want to visit Karakoram national park once in life and trek on Trango towers. Hopefully Kashmir becomes stable without interference of either Ind/Pak soon.
 
AamchiMumbaikar said:
You are from Indian side of J&K with a PAK flag against your avatar? :murali
Click to expand...

Why are you surprised?

I have never seen a Kashmiri supporting India over Pakistan. I have only met a handful of Indian Kashmiris. Only Hindu Kashmiris are hardcore Indian supporters.
 
Thivagar said:
I also heard that if you tick "no" on an application that questions if you have any relations to Pakistan, they don't go too hard on you either. I kinda tend to believe it since India has a large muslim population as well. What do you think ?
Click to expand...
If you provide false info and it gets found out then the moment you enter India you will be arrested.

If your parents or grandparents were Indian citizens at any point in time then it makes you eligible for OCI and you dont have to get a visa.And to get a OCI you have to give detailed infor of your background.

And afaik since 26/11 any person applying for Indian visa if he has any hint of subcontinental background like his father or mothers name or anything they do a thorough check with the country the passport belongs to.

Its not as easy as people say it is.
 
Hornbill said:
First of all militancy need to end otherwise foreign tourists won't visit Kashmir but still foreigners visit safe places like ladakh. Domestic tourists are still going to JK in large numbers, few years before over 1 crore domestic tourists visited JK.
Click to expand...

Past is gone. Current Ground reality in kashmir is completely different. Its very safe for everyone. I will say its as safe as any place in european countries. Fact is that even when the tehreek was at its peak, tourists were never targetted by anyone because the aim of resistence targets very specific issues. But unfortunately tourism is the most sensitive of industries. Even a rumour can drive tourists away let alone a past defined by internal struggles.

Btw Ladakh is a part of jk tourism.
Yes domestic tourists visit in huge numbers. In 2015 the numbers took a hit because of sept 2014 floods. But in 2016 things have been better Alhamdulilah.
 
Kashmirilion said:
Soooo true Kashmir as a whole has so much potential for tourism if the money is invested in to it from Pak or Indian governments and if we had no corruption and guaranteed safety for foreign tourist without a doubt would be in the top places to visit.
Click to expand...

Corruption is the biggest problem JK is facing right now. The politicians are leeching off people's blood. Nepotism is prevalent among all quarters and qualified people take the back seat in every department.
 
Lurker_Ind said:
To the OP, if you are visiting for fun as a bachelor, Goa is the best place.

Indian women are conservative and if you are trying to hit on a few, you will be disappointed. Most night clubs do not allow single bachelors. You need to be with a girl. Otherwise, you will be stopped at the door.
Best way to enjoy night life is to get your own girl from South Africa.

Be sure to taste South Indian food when you visit Bangalore. Its awesome. Try Idli, Dosa, Sambar, Vada etc. They are heavenly when made fresh.
Click to expand...


Lol :)))

Gonna go to India in future as I know a girl there, tell her we can hit the club but the only way we can enter is if we "pretend" to be going out.

Perfect plan :))) :)))
 
Yossarian said:
[MENTION=136729]Suleiman[/MENTION] . No Indian visa problems I assume?
(if your parents or grandparents had links with Pakistan that is). Even if an Indian tourist visa is granted to those with family links to Pakistan (including US citizens) , it's not going to be one where you can roam from city to city at will. That's my understanding anyway.
Click to expand...

Born and raised in Pakistan brother. All my grandparents and my parents have lived in Pak for most of their life too save for my father.

But I have connections so it wasn't that hard to get a visa. They asked me if I was Pakistani or had a Pak passport, I said yes and they said I'd have to wait for half an hour while they'd tend to the others behind me in line.

I told them do you know who I am. They said no, I said ok let me talk to your supervisor. So one indian guy behind the desk called the supervisor and she invited me to her office.

She asked for Chai and biscuits for both of us and asked me what the issue was. Told her I wanted to go to India for 2 weeks as it was my grandfather's final wishes to reestablish some contact with his family that he had to leave behind in Jaipur.

Things got emotional, one thing led to another but then I had to sign few documents, take a photo and all that.

Then they said they'd call me few days later, I said ok and left.

Didn't think they'd call me, but they did and now I'm going.
 
Donal Cozzie said:
Lol :)))

Gonna go to India in future as I know a girl there, tell her we can hit the club but the only way we can enter is if we "pretend" to be going out.

Perfect plan :))) :)))
Click to expand...

There are single women whom you can friend and have some fun. But they are hounded by lots of crazy dudes. You will have to super good looking to get one of them. Not that those women are hot or anything. But its just that they have tons of options to choose from.
 
TM Riddle said:
Where in Jaipur?
Click to expand...

Near Ajmer Road. I talked to my mom's side of the family on the phone in Jaipur, thought I'd have difficulty understanding their accents, but had no problems at all felt like I was talking to any other Pakistani, and then jotted down the address.

Lurker_Ind said:
To the OP, if you are visiting for fun as a bachelor, Goa is the best place.

Indian women are conservative and if you are trying to hit on a few, you will be disappointed. Most night clubs do not allow single bachelors. You need to be with a girl. Otherwise, you will be stopped at the door.
Best way to enjoy night life is to get your own girl from South Africa.

Be sure to taste South Indian food when you visit Bangalore. Its awesome. Try Idli, Dosa, Sambar, Vada etc. They are heavenly when made fresh.
Click to expand...

Don't worry when I meet them they'll become liberal.

And yes looking forward to the food as well.

Besides I've heard Indian women have a thing for Pak men. Near my home there is an Indian store and the lady who manages it says her favorite actors are Pakistanis Fawad Khan and Imran Abbass and they look much better than bollywood actors.
 
Last edited:
Lurker_Ind said:
There are single women whom you can friend and have some fun. But they are hounded by lots of crazy dudes. You will have to super good looking to get one of them. Not that those women are hot or anything. But its just that they have tons of options to choose from.
Click to expand...

I anticipated meeting [MENTION=134809]sensible-indian-fan[/MENTION] at some point dont worry, I have a plan to deal with him :baelish
 
Suleiman said:
Near Ajmer Road. I talked to my mom's side of the family on the phone in Jaipur, thought I'd have difficulty understanding their accents, but had no problems at all felt like I was talking to any other Pakistani, and then jotted down the address.



Don't worry when I meet them they'll become liberal.

And yes looking forward to the food as well.

Besides I've heard Indian women have a thing for Pak men. Near my home there is an Indian store and the lady who manages it says her favorite actors are Pakistanis Fawad Khan and Imran Abbass and they look much better than bollywood actors.
Click to expand...

Hmm. Good to know Pak people have same accent as the Indian ones. Some posters here believe otherwise.

Bollywood is overloaded with Pathan Superstars. I think Indian women have a thing for Pathan/Pashtun men. :afridi :ik :shehzad Not the ones that look like :kami :uakmal :haris :sami etc.

If you are a Pathan, then you may look exotic to them.
 
Suleiman said:
Besides I've heard Indian women have a thing for Pak men. Near my home there is an Indian store and the lady who manages it says her favorite actors are Pakistanis Fawad Khan and Imran Abbass and they look much better than bollywood actors.
Click to expand...

Don't be fooled by a lady wanting to brown nose her customers. The other day a broker who wanted me to buy a property was saying all people who are named CC are high profile and down to earth.
 
Suleiman said:
Will be going to India this summer, Goa mainly to hang out, see what's all the fuss about basically. And party, ofc :farhat

What should I expect? Is it like Pakistan? I'm going alone so I'm a little scared.

Initially I wanted to go there to fix things, but I'm not a humanitarian even though as a part American it's my job to help countries who are less fortunate, which I'll try to do.

But yes maybe if there is some IPL going on, will watch that too if it's in a nearby city.

Mainly going to check out Goa, Jaipur as I have relations there, as well as Bangalore.

From there will go to my cousin's house in Islamabad see what the fuss is about there as well. It's a new house and he always sells it like it is some palace, so why not stop by.

Will be interesting to see the change in people, environment etc when I depart from Bengaluru Intl Airport and land in Bhutto Intl Airport.
Click to expand...

It is not safe there, India is a very jealous nation of Pakistanis and are generally very bitter about their scary looks so they ought to attack you because of your natural beauty and success. I suggest you do not go there if you care for your safety.
 
CricketCartoons said:
Don't be fooled by a lady wanting to brown nose her customers. The other day a broker who wanted me to buy a property was saying all people who are named CC are high profile and down to earth.
Click to expand...

Stop posting from your backside please, it's not even funny; you're trying too hard kid
 
Donal Cozzie said:
Lol :)))

Gonna go to India in future as I know a girl there, tell her we can hit the club but the only way we can enter is if we "pretend" to be going out.

Perfect plan :))) :)))
Click to expand...

If you have to fly from Ireland to India just to "pretend" to be going out with a girl, then you have bigger issues at hand my friend.
 
Lurker_Ind said:
There are single women whom you can friend and have some fun. But they are hounded by lots of crazy dudes. You will have to super good looking to get one of them. Not that those women are hot or anything. But its just that they have tons of options to choose from.
Click to expand...

Yeh sari desi larkiyon ka masla hai. I don't know about Indians but Pakistani girls who are slightly above average looking develop a lot of attitude and kisi ko ghans bhi nahi dalti unless they look like Hrithik Roshan.


End mein shaadi phoppo ke betay se hi hoti hai :yk
 
Suleiman said:
Born and raised in Pakistan brother. All my grandparents and my parents have lived in Pak for most of their life too save for my father.

But I have connections so it wasn't that hard to get a visa. They asked me if I was Pakistani or had a Pak passport, I said yes and they said I'd have to wait for half an hour while they'd tend to the others behind me in line.

I told them do you know who I am. They said no, I said ok let me talk to your supervisor. So one indian guy behind the desk called the supervisor and she invited me to her office.

She asked for Chai and biscuits for both of us and asked me what the issue was. Told her I wanted to go to India for 2 weeks as it was my grandfather's final wishes to reestablish some contact with his family that he had to leave behind in Jaipur.

Things got emotional, one thing led to another but then I had to sign few documents, take a photo and all that.

Then they said they'd call me few days later, I said ok and left.

Didn't think they'd call me, but they did and now I'm going.
Click to expand...
OK. So you're Wasim Akram's cousin. 'Cause that's the only connection high enough for the Indians that I can think of for them to give you, with your Pakistani background, the royalty treatment. :wasim
 
Yossarian said:
OK. So you're Wasim Akram's cousin. 'Cause that's the only connection high enough for the Indians that I can think of for them to give you, with your Pakistani background, the royalty treatment. :wasim
Click to expand...

I dont want to disclose a lot since this is an Internet from. But in Malaysia when I used to live there I was very close with a pretty well off Muslim Indian family.

This is South Asia after all, no matter how much we try to follow the angraiz log in terms of professionalism, some sifarish here and there will happen.

Ofc I have a clean record as well.
 
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