Importance of a thorough background check before marriage

[Savak]

Have just recently heard of 2 very scary anecdotes of different people in the family.

The first episode involves my phupa's eldest brothers daughter in California. The brother is a highly successful doctor who runs his own practice in California and his daughter is extremely successful in her own career in an insurance firm where she is making $100,000 a year. Unfortunately the poor girl has been unsuccesful in relationships, in the past i heard she rejected many guys because they were not as successful, well established or highly qualified as her. She got engaged once but the two people decided to end things because they realized that they were not a good fit for each other. She is around 33 years now and my phuppa a few months ago gave us the news that she had gotten engaged to a Pakistani guy in New Jersey and that they were planning to have the Nikka, Marriage this summer.

Day before yesterday he gave us the shocking news that her union with this guy was over. After expressing shock and inquiring what, why, what happened, he went into details that his elder brother was referred by someone to the guys mother as she was looking to get her son married. Then my phuppa revealed shockingly that his elder brother from the inception of meeting the guy, his mom and getting the guy to meet his daughter, had sent gifts worth around $70,000-80,000 to the guy and had even offered to help the guy and his family finance arrangements for the wedding. Apparently the guys family had even revealed that he had been married once but was now divorced and no longer had anything to do with his ex wife.

However during the process of making arrangements for the Nikka, Wedding this summer, the guys family had started becoming extremely evasive, they would not answer phone calls promptly, they would refuse to commit venues, dates but would only call when it came to discussing finances. The last bone of contention was that the guy and his family were refusing to discuss a venue for the Valima along with the date for the Valima after the Nikka, Wedding and would just speak in general terms "Don't worry about it, we will find a place, slot 2 weeks after the wedding".

In the last 2 weeks, the guy and his mom stopped picking up phone calls from the girls father, her brother and didn't even have the courtesy to return phonecalls but he would take time out to speak to the girl. The girls family finally lost patience when the guy did not pick up the girls brothers phone call and when the dad called the girls mother up, she said that she was busy with guests and she will call back the moment she is free but didn't. Finally they called the guy up from the daughters cell phone which he attended promptly and both the brother, father put the phone on speaker and got straight to the point 'Listen, stop screwing around, are you actually even interested in this marriage or not" and to their complete shock the guy did not give a positive response.

Then later when the dad called the guy's mother demanding an explanation to what was going on, she made all sorts of excuses "We cannot finalize a date for the Valima because our Financial situation is extremely messy right now, i have a property dispute case in Pakistan which needs to be finalized". Then the more shocking news or revelation came from the guy that not only was his divorce with his ex-wife had not finalized yet, he had a child with her and had to make spousal/child support payments to her. Naturally the girls father threw a huge fit and reacted very angrily as to how could they take them for a ride and keep such an important thing from them.

Naturally the whole thing is over now, but the girls father has had many heart problems in the past and this recent episode is not going to make things easy for him. The girl naturally is very shook and petrified of the whole ordeal.

Once my phuppa left, my folks started discussing amongst themselves as to why on earth would my phuppa's elder brother send gifts worth $50,000-$70,000 to the groom and his family and offer to finance the wedding arrangements and be so stupid not to do a full thorough background check on the guy's history and the family's history and my mom was like the whole episode showed how desperate he was for the marriage to take place, succeed that he was willing to desperately offer financial gifts and ultimately the guy and his family had no intention of ever marrying the girl but to exploit the girls father for money.

After hearing this episode, i am sorry to say, breach of privacy or not, you just cannot leave any stone unturned when it comes to marriage decisions and if that means hiring a private investigator to dig up as many details as possible then so be it.

 

[Savak]

Second episode involves my Chachi's elder brother who is 38-39 years old and a highly successful banker in the US in New York. He married very late in life and got married in 2016 to a fresh Pakistani graduate from a local university in Lahore, apparently the girl was recommended to the guy's mother in Pakistan via extended family. My Chacha had even attended the wedding in Pakistan in 2016.

A few weeks ago my Chacha in a joking manner at the dinner table as if he was making fun of someone blurted out to us that my Chachi's elder brother got divorced. Naturally my folks out of concern then started asking questions with regards to what happened and my Chachi then got up and then raced out of the room in a flash. She was naturally very upset and my parents told my Chacha off "Why were you laughing and joking? Why did you even tell us in the first place in her presence, couldn't you have told us in private". Then my Chacha got up himself and went after her to naturally calm her down and console her and she eventually joined us again at the dinner table but she still couldn't hide her tears and my parents tried to console her "Whatever happened was for the best, atleast there were no kids involved, it is better for things to end early and quickly rather than a pro longed life of agony and unhappiness".

Apparently the reason given was that the girl apparently had bad character and that she had too many frequent unexplained abscences from home and very often the husband would come home from work at 6-7 in the evening and find his wife not at home. Even when she was at home she would constantly be on the phone and would not take any interest at all in taking care of the house or focusing on building a life with him or speaking to him, communicating with him in general. I don't know the full details but what i heard was the last straw was when the husband secretly looked at her cell phone and found some incriminating photos and messages of her after which their relationship collapsed beyond repair and they are now getting divorced. Apparently the girl requested the guy not to cancel the green card sponsorship application inspite of the divorce but the guy told her to take a hike.

The most scary bit about this episode to me was the fact that the girl was actually suggested and recommended to the girls mother by a close family relative.

 

[SpiritOf1903]

I'll be honest, I'm confused.

 

[SpiritOf1903]

The second one is a bit clearer. You've a 39 year old offering visa to a 21 year old?. Firstly, I'd suggest the age gap is quite large.

 

[Savak]

The second one is a bit clearer. You've a 39 year old offering visa to a 21 year old?. Firstly, I'd suggest the age gap is quite large.

She was 26 actually.

 

[Varun]

Arranged marriages in this day and age only have a slim shot of success.

And when the aunty brigade of all people decide to step on the gas to get two millennials married...you get what you get.

 

[PakLFC]

Checking the background is of great importance when meeting someone online in particular although age is not the deciding factor. I am not at all a fan of marrying someone from back home at all. No need to take such a risk when surely there will be many compatible matches in the country you are living in. With so many matrimonial sites there is no reason to marry someone from a different educational background, they will mostly struggle in many ways when arriving in the west. It's okay for men to be up to ten years older if the lady is happy considering we age much slower then the opposite gender. When the lady is older she often appears as her husband's aunt!! Ladies also mature much faster then men do, you don't see them argue over silly things like politics very often. No matter who you marry there is always an element of risk involved so it's better to remain single then be unhappily married.

 

[Pakistanian]

Second guy dodged a bullet lol, imagine if he didn't find out and got this two timing golddigger a a greencard. Also the girl isn't very smart for asking him to not cancel the application cause even if he didn't she still wouldn't get the the greencard as they would've been divorced thus disqualifying her.

 

[Haroon786]

Second episode involves my Chachi's elder brother who is 38-39 years old and a highly successful banker in the US in New York. He married very late in life and got married in 2016 to a fresh Pakistani graduate from a local university in Lahore, apparently the girl was recommended to the guy's mother in Pakistan via extended family. My Chacha had even attended the wedding in Pakistan in 2016.

A few weeks ago my Chacha in a joking manner at the dinner table as if he was making fun of someone blurted out to us that my Chachi's elder brother got divorced. Naturally my folks out of concern then started asking questions with regards to what happened and my Chachi then got up and then raced out of the room in a flash. She was naturally very upset and my parents told my Chacha off "Why were you laughing and joking? Why did you even tell us in the first place in her presence, couldn't you have told us in private". Then my Chacha got up himself and went after her to naturally calm her down and console her and she eventually joined us again at the dinner table but she still couldn't hide her tears and my parents tried to console her "Whatever happened was for the best, atleast there were no kids involved, it is better for things to end early and quickly rather than a pro longed life of agony and unhappiness".

Apparently the reason given was that the girl apparently had bad character and that she had too many frequent unexplained abscences from home and very often the husband would come home from work at 6-7 in the evening and find his wife not at home. Even when she was at home she would constantly be on the phone and would not take any interest at all in taking care of the house or focusing on building a life with him or speaking to him, communicating with him in general. I don't know the full details but what i heard was the last straw was when the husband secretly looked at her cell phone and found some incriminating photos and messages of her after which their relationship collapsed beyond repair and they are now getting divorced. Apparently the girl requested the guy not to cancel the green card sponsorship application inspite of the divorce but the guy told her to take a hike.

The most scary bit about this episode to me was the fact that the girl was actually suggested and recommended to the girls mother by a close family relative.

Do you think there is a second side to the story or this is the full truth?

 

[Something]

Every second word in this story was 'naturally'

 

[Savak]

Do you think there is a second side to the story or this is the full truth?

I can't say for sure, my chachi is extremely sensitive about her family even though she openly talks and comments on our family issues so will be tricky for me to get more details from her.

But I know her elder brother extremely well, one of the most shareef straight as an arrow seedha saadha individuals and thoroughly professional people you can come across, i can confidently say he wouldn't do anything wrong for sure at the very least.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

Have some really weird stories of my own. Stranger than imagination, sometimes. Although from the other side of pond. (European Desis).

The youth (2nd/3rd generation mostly) are a headache for their parents.

Background check is essential. Only way you can know who truly the other person is.

2nd story is common even amongst many non-desis. Women with this character are not housewives. You can marry them but they will do what they do.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

The second one is a bit clearer. You've a 39 year old offering visa to a 21 year old?. Firstly, I'd suggest the age gap is quite large.

$Yep$
She monkey branched this poor chap.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

How would you instigate a background check out of interest sake?

I have known rishtas fall apart because a jealous relative badmouthed a guy, and on another occasion a girl which ended up with potential matches falling by the wayside. You are really relying on those in your community passing on unbiased opinions, and often those people will have their own agenda so there's no foolproof way of doing background checks. Arranged marriages in western countries are already facing enough hurdles, being completely foreign to the local culture, when you are talking about hiring private detectives, I would say maybe just buy a plane ticket and go back to Pakistan...and stay there.

 

[Syed1]

Savak you need to get married

 

[Savak]

Savak you need to get married

Don't we all, but hell no if it comes with all this nightmarish baggage

 

[Savak]

How would you instigate a background check out of interest sake?

I have known rishtas fall apart because a jealous relative badmouthed a guy, and on another occasion a girl which ended up with potential matches falling by the wayside. You are really relying on those in your community passing on unbiased opinions, and often those people will have their own agenda so there's no foolproof way of doing background checks. Arranged marriages in western countries are already facing enough hurdles, being completely foreign to the local culture, when you are talking about hiring private detectives, I would say maybe just buy a plane ticket and go back to Pakistan...and stay there.

Don't see what is wrong with private detectives, they can give you a clear picture of the guys and the families finances, the guy or girl's past relationships, why things fell apart, are they still married, is he seeing multiple girls on the side or is she seeing multiple guys, what is their general lifestyle like, they are certainly your best bet in bridging the gap between the artificial fake impression that is created in official meetings and reality. Even if it costs $5,000-$10,000-$15,000, it is worth it as opposed to making a wrong decision and suffering the numerous consequences later.

 

[Slog]

[MENTION=2501]Savak[/MENTION] get married to the girl in the first story

 

[Savak]

[MENTION=2501]Savak[/MENTION] get married to the girl in the first story

The girls father had lobbied with my grandmother to convince my folks for her in 2015 but my folks refused because the girl was over weight, came from a broken home, seemed to have an attitude, bossy vibe, basically all things my folks were uncomfortable with. It was scary how during my cousin's wedding in 2015, she tried to speak to me when alone and literally knew my entire bio data i.e. academic history, qualifications, work experience e.t.c. even though I didn't even know who she was and had never spoken to her before.

My mom suspects my phuppa (who for the most part is extremely protective of his own family) mentioned the episode to us with ulterior motives.

 

[UP]

Savak, your family (immediate and relatives) are legends. I know you guys are very pare likhe but it seems like you guys are always navigating through extreme personal problems despite being pare likhe mature log. You all need a longgg vacation to clear your heads.

 

[Nostalgic]

...they were planning to have the Nikka, Marriage this summer...

I see what you did there...

...unless it was unintentional. Nikah is the marriage contract, whereas nikka, literally meaning small or tiny, usually refers to a baby. In our culture, it is best to keep the Nikah-nikka order in tact, lest the tongues of the chatterati wag.

 

[Savak]

Savak, your family (immediate and relatives) are legends. I know you guys are very pare likhe but it seems like you guys are always navigating through extreme personal problems despite being pare likhe mature log. You all need a longgg vacation to clear your heads.

I can't seem to remember when was the last time I ever had a proper full fledged vacation. I am sure taking time off to attend family weddings don't count.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Don't see what is wrong with private detectives, they can give you a clear picture of the guys and the families finances, the guy or girl's past relationships, why things fell apart, are they still married, is he seeing multiple girls on the side or is she seeing multiple guys, what is their general lifestyle like, they are certainly your best bet in bridging the gap between the artificial fake impression that is created in official meetings and reality. Even if it costs $5,000-$10,000-$15,000, it is worth it as opposed to making a wrong decision and suffering the numerous consequences later.

I am just impressed that you guys have so many options to choose from in the US that you can be that fussy. I mean there are plenty of options here as well, but the ones who are prepared to go through all that rigmarole and still pass the test generally aren't that high on the desirability list to start with.

 

[Haroon786]

I can't say for sure, my chachi is extremely sensitive about her family even though she openly talks and comments on our family issues �� so will be tricky for me to get more details from her.

But I know her elder brother extremely well, one of the most shareef straight as an arrow seedha saadha individuals and thoroughly professional people you can come across, i can confidently say he wouldn't do anything wrong for sure at the very least.

Issue here it seems the elder brother is too naive for his own good and wasn't ever able to deal with someone who married him for financial reasons. I think he should have laid down the law before the marriage and have more of a dominating role in his marriage rather than letting his parents do everything.

 

[Savak]

Issue here it seems the elder brother is too naive for his own good and wasn't ever able to deal with someone who married him for financial reasons. I think he should have laid down the law before the marriage and have more of a dominating role in his marriage rather than letting his parents do everything.

Don't think the girl married him for financial reasons, she hasn't gotten much out of him except for the divorce. I just think in general she may have not been of sound character to begin with and one of the biggest red flags is finding out how many guys has the girl in question been involved with in the past, general lifestyle and just having a frank discussion.

But reality is anyone can cheat in a relationship at any time and succumb to that temptation where they just find someone better. Has happened with guys and girls who never dated guys or girls before marriage either.

Lol, elders and parents keep emotionally blackmailing their kids "Maa Baap, Bare Buzurg kabhi bhi tumhare liye ghalat nahin karain ge"

 

[Savak]

I am just impressed that you guys have so many options to choose from in the US that you can be that fussy. I mean there are plenty of options here as well, but the ones who are prepared to go through all that rigmarole and still pass the test generally aren't that high on the desirability list to start with.

Fussy? How is wanting to be sure about someone's background being fussy?

 

[Haroon786]

Don't think the girl married him for financial reasons, she hasn't gotten much out of him except for the divorce. I just think in general she may have not been of sound character to begin with and one of the biggest red flags is finding out how many guys has the girl in question been involved with in the past, general lifestyle and just having a frank discussion.

But reality is anyone can cheat in a relationship at any time and succumb to that temptation where they just find someone better. Has happened with guys and girls who never dated guys or girls before marriage either.

Lol, elders and parents keep emotionally blackmailing their kids "Maa Baap, Bare Buzurg kabhi bhi tumhare liye ghalat nahin karain ge"

Perhaps my wording was wrong, but she was getting sponsored for American citizenship? That's a pretty big contributory factor I reckon.

Yep but that's what red flags are for - if something looks and smells fishy, then it more than likely is fishy. However, you have to do the due diligence beforehand to see red flags and bail before too much damage is done.

So whether it's just simply talking to the girl properly or using private investigators, there should have been some measures taken before taking the big step.

Agree about the elders shtick, we live in the 21st century, there shouldn't be any interference between the groom and the bride.

 

[in_cutter]

Reminds me if your creepy spying episode [MENTION=2501]Savak[/MENTION]

 

[in_cutter]

Don't see what is wrong with private detectives, they can give you a clear picture of the guys and the families finances, the guy or girl's past relationships, why things fell apart, are they still married, is he seeing multiple girls on the side or is she seeing multiple guys, what is their general lifestyle like, they are certainly your best bet in bridging the gap between the artificial fake impression that is created in official meetings and reality. Even if it costs $5,000-$10,000-$15,000, it is worth it as opposed to making a wrong decision and suffering the numerous consequences later.

Would you like it if someone hired a detective to spy on you? No offence but it seems your family has some serious issues.

 

[srh]

happens in Pakistan too; one of distant relative's girl educated with good job got married to an educated chap with good job in Karachi (arranged marriage); 1.5 years later suddenly heard that boy divorce the girl; find out that they never had sex, boy always said we are good friends and I am getting treatment, once the girl book herself an appointment to see specialist for him, boy did not go and instead divorce her; most likely the boy is gay; his parents should have known this and still marry him to a girl

 

[Savak]

Would you like it if someone hired a detective to spy on you? No offence but it seems your family has some serious issues.

My Chachi's family had hired someone to find out as much as possible about my Chacha before marriage. My Chacha was living and working in Canada at the time while my Chachi was living in Pakistan. The PI they hired took photographs, monitored my Chacha's daily activities. Lol Eventually my Chachi's family told my Chacha's family that they hired a PI to find out more about my Chacha, the PI met with my Chacha and even told him lol if things don't work out between you two, don't worry, I have a girl in my family who is looking to get married lol.

 

[CricketDon]

Go on. Enduldge I’m more blind marriages for gods sake. Go on. Please go on. What did you think was going to happen? Sending 50-70k worth of gifts blindly. Honestly you’re to blame.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

After reading most of your posts about weddings, family issues and relationships I realise that I have lived a very sheltered life.

 

[Savak]

Go on. Enduldge I’m more blind marriages for gods sake. Go on. Please go on. What did you think was going to happen? Sending 50-70k worth of gifts blindly. Honestly you’re to blame.

)

I didn't send these gifts

 

[chacha kashmiri]

This is why they live with partners in western society before marrying them

Some of the most successful people I’ve met and even some of the beautifulist and cleverest have been very clueless about relationships because they have no experience whatsoever and therefore are very emotional

 

[UP]

Doesn’t matter how many PI’s you hire, marriage is a jua (gamble) at the end of the day. Its a matter of two minds and personalities clicking.

There’s no harm in background check though (imo, hiring PI is extreme and a cheap act).

 

[ahmedzee]

Moral of all these stories:

- Stop looking at banking information, past history etc. If the girl and guy are genuine, then marry them off. If you look at education, money and all, then you would always say"Thank You, Next".
- Arranged marriages may not work in this day and age at times. Not saying all may not work, but most may not. Everyone can be in a relationship without even meeting the other person. Its better to communicate with your elders if you like someone, instead of hiding it.

 

[Buffet]

Why don't you simply spend time with the person to get to know him/her better?

 

[rockyboy2018]

These days even with due dilligence performed on both selling and buying companies, you are screwed either way. Haha. My elder brother was about to get screwed by a muslim Pakistani girl. His premise was such that it would be better to marry with someone who followed the same religious and cultural values when you were living in a western society. I guess these days you can not trust anyone. Some are there for moey

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Fussy? How is wanting to be sure about someone's background being fussy?

You are kind of missing the point, I said I am impressed that in the US you have so many options to choose from that you CAN be that fussy.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

These days even with due dilligence performed on both selling and buying companies, you are screwed either way. Haha. My elder brother was about to get screwed by a muslim Pakistani girl. His premise was such that it would be better to marry with someone who followed the same religious and cultural values when you were living in a western society. I guess these days you can not trust anyone. Some are there for moey

*most. FTFY.

Many beasts hide behind name of Islam. I have observed that people living in Pak are better at judging characters (seeing through lies) than desis living outside.

 

[Rayyman]

Why don't you simply spend time with the person to get to know him/her better?

They can't do it on their own. Mommy and daddy needs to help them with every little situation.

 

[Savak]

You are kind of missing the point, I said I am impressed that in the US you have so many options to choose from that you CAN be that fussy.

I still don't get it, so people who don't have options should turn a blind eye to red flags, warning signs and make a bad decision. This is what the girls father in the first episode actually did. It's a sad reality of the way things are in the west for Desi's

 

[Savak]

Why don't you simply spend time with the person to get to know him/her better?

Lol, you think its that easy. When my sister recently got married to this Pakistani American guy, the only liberty they got was just exchanging each other's numbers and social media information. But we had already checked many things like the guys background, history and the biggest plus point was that he was pretty religious, hard working, the fact he looked after his sick parents and his mother who had battled a cancer diagnosis for 12 long years gave my parents immense confidence that he would take care of my sister with the same kind of dedication, love. Plus ofcourse my sister got comfortable with him which also made it easier for us.

 

[Theo_14]

Why don't you simply spend time with the person to get to know him/her better?

This is easier especially if it’s love marriage. I got to know someone for a year or two. It was perfect. Pretty much a relationship in all honesty.

But when families got involved - my parents were keen on doing a “due diligence.” I found it at the time very offensive as the girl I was marrying was fine with me and ticked am boxes. However, I was wrong and I learned the hard-way.

Within 6-7 months (after family met up) Her mum’s odd behavior ie asking for “nishani” before marriage (ie gold/ring), pushing for engagement just for the people to see despite marriage dates being already fixed, going out of her way to call my mum for us to move out when me and her daughter had agreements in place, materialistic/petty typical asian thoughtd etc all of this was strange and very jahil village esque approach.

When my ex fiance and her mum went to Pakistan, she met all of our family but when my khala wanted to pick them up, she was not insisting on giving their home address. I don’t know why but it seems they were from a very poor and bad area. Neither did we see any of her extended family or immediate family, saw her mamu once to tie rishta but after that he was gone too.

Anyhow, her mum was planning for months to end the relationship as she realised I wasn’t a “Yes man”, and she kept on ignoring our invitations to come over, and many times tried to cause issues out of nothing just so we end it from our side; dirty tacticd - she wore the trousers in the house and eventually brainwashed her daughter as well who wanted to move out asap without any genuine reason, wanted to be spoilt constantly aka lalaj; it was clear she was brainwashed well.

I think when I reflect back - my biggest mistake was just focusing on the girl - I ignored the biggest red flag which was her mum had cut off ties with most of their side of families ie taiya, mamu, chachu etc - obviously when you are in love you ignore these things for the girl but now when I look at her mum’s behaviour, I could see why ties were cut with any of their side of the relatives. Another red flag was her own husband would phone my dad and open about and expose his wife; it was a very messy situation.

Point is, meetings won’t make a difference because until you are married, that girl is living with her family so her family can brainwash or change her perspective easily. People change, wake up differently every day; even after marriage. Best thing is, very early, get to know the parents, the relation between parents and person whom you are marrying and extended relatives etc. One must take time. I’ve learned the hard way why due diligence is so important.