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"Imran Khan bowls well when there is grass on the wicket" : Mickey Arthur

Slog

Slog

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Exact quotes:

"We've got Imran Khan sitting off who bowls well on wickets with a with a bit of grass.

"I wouldn't be out of line if I said I don't think he's got the pace to bowl on a good wicket here. But when it does a little bit, he's fantastic."

While Imran Khan may or may not deserve to play, I think it is totally wrong and ignorant to say what Arthur's said above considering all but one of Imrans tests have been on absolute roads and/or turners.

Not entirely sure where he's getting this information from

Guy averages 26 despite just one test in favourable conditions

This is not a thread to ask for him to be inducted in the side. And I definitely think he cannot run through line ups

Just interesting to see the blatant manufacturing of truth here
 
I agree with you. What sort of a coach makes such comments to the media about its players. Imran has bowled well in UAE and he probably bowls better on flatter wickets with reverse. His lack of actual background research is shocking.
 
Imran Khan is not very good at international level. A good bowler at the domestic level but not good enough to make the step up.
 
Bewal Express said:
Imran Khan is not very good at international level. A good bowler at the domestic level but not good enough to make the step up.
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How come he always ends up with good figures and stats?

Regardless. Do you think Mickey should be embarrassing him and doubting him publicly. And then straight up lying about his record
 
Jackson Bird did well even with his pace
Im sure Imran would have troubled the Australian batsmen in these conditions with his seam movement.
 
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Slog said:
How come he always ends up with good figures and stats?

Regardless. Do you think Mickey should be embarrassing him and doubting him publicly. And then straight up lying about his record
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I agree about Mickey but he isn't good, and nor is Mir Hamza or the kids that came on the tour to England with the A team. I like the look of Ghulam Mudassar but that is 3 years into the future.
 
I disagree with Arthur.

Imran is NOT good even on a pitch with grass. He's that skill less.

Doesn't belong in internationals.
 
Averages 26.5 after EIGHT tests

All but one test in Asia
 
He is totally right. The sample size in the UAE is too small to conclude that Imran can do well on those pitches.

Look at his skill-set as a bowler - he has nothing going for him except for some seam movement; he can't swing the new ball and neither is he quick enough to be useful when there is reverse on offer. Which means that he is practically useless unless there is grass on the pitch.

All of these things will be proven with time the more he bowls. 8 Tests is not enough to claim that Arthur is wrong in his assessment.

Your blind criticism of Arthur is no different to Shehzad/Umar fans blindly criticizing Waqar for every problem. They were wrong in doing so and so are you.
 
Slog said:
Averages 26.5 after EIGHT tests

All but one test in Asia
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So what does that prove? Nothing.

By that logic you're a huge fan of Umar Gul specially inTests. :)))

He's another version of Umar Gul. A gun barrel straight trundler with no skill with the ball.

Can occasionally move the ball off the pitch. A fluke that any bowler can pull off.

Stats will show you real picture after a large sample.

Look Mickey isn't doing much and I know that, but he's right on target re. imran Khan .
 
As a Kiwi, Imran is the bowler Pakistan needs on this tour, every time he is selected he peforms but is dropped the next test, doesnt make sense.
The bowlers for the next test need to be Wahab, Amir and Imran plus the spinner
 
Hawkeye said:
So what does that prove? Nothing.

By that logic you're a huge fan of Umar Gul specially inTests. :)))

He's another version of Umar Gul. A gun barrel straight trundler with no skill with the ball.

Can occasionally move the ball off the pitch. A fluke that any bowler can pull off.

Stats will show you real picture after a large sample.

Look Mickey isn't doing much and I know that, but he's right on target re. imran Khan .
Click to expand...

Check Umar Guls record. He is superior to it at every level of FC cricket

The thing is I don't even rate Imran Khan skill wise much. But the fact is that whenever he's played he's done well and usually on dead pitches. Considering his good record he should be atleast given some chances and if he had an off match or 2 he can be discarded without being given a long rope like some 'talented' ones are given

Secondly Arthur seems to be saying that he has only done wel on green wickets. That is a blatant lie. Sample size maybe small but atleast don't lie to make a point.
 
I can see where Slog is coming from tbh. Arthur shouldn't be making these comments in the media. Knowing our players too they'll either turn the other cheek or quit the game altogether to sell Pan-Masala around the corner from the team hotel.
 
Sherlock said:
I can see where Slog is coming from tbh. Arthur shouldn't be making these comments in the media. Knowing our players too they'll either turn the other cheek or quit the game altogether to sell Pan-Masala around the corner from the team hotel.
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And last but not least if you don't rate him at all (despite evidence on the contrary) why have you been taking him in every tour?

Being someone else in
 
Slog said:
And last but not least if you don't rate him at all (despite evidence on the contrary) why have you been taking him in every tour?

Being someone else in
Click to expand...

As I said the whole process of the Oceania tour has been nothing short of diabolical. It started showing in the last Test v WI. The players looked tired and short of tactical nouce to overcome a 2nd string WI side. A couple of weeks rest and a washed out practice game didn't bode well for these to series.
 
Well said. Imran is a trundler should never be in our squad with his non existent pace.
 
When coaches try to cover for their players' shortcomings in the media - fans here complain that he is delusional.

When coaches be honest and open about their players' shortcomings in the media - he is bashed.

Its a no win situation. Personally, I think Arthur was saying something Imran himself wouldn't disagree with.
 
He has been treated harshly.

Sure might not bowl jaffers but does bowl a good line, and when he gets his length right he gets wickets with pressure.

He's certainly better than useless and hopeless Rahat.
 
Imran Khan makes Rahat Ali look like the second coming of Wasim Akram
 
Harsh but True.

Shouldn't have said these things infront of Media.

It is a vote of No Confidence against Inzamam's pick aswell.

Inzamam is trying to set a world record in " Consistency in Selection "


This is an age of rotation policy and picking different players for different conditions.
 
Tend to agree with Arthur. Imran Khan had 7 matches on the dead UAE pitches and got around 20 wickets. Fluke or whatever you might wanna call it in New Zealand, on the green pitch, he got 6 wickets. The sample size is too small to call him a 'GTB' . But he is at the bottom of pecking order for bowlers in the XI. Hate to say it, but even below Rahat. But overall, decent player to keep on the bench in case of an injury or need as he can play the workhorse role and bowl long spells. So Arthur is right on not picking him on the Australian roads where he will not cause much havoc to the even the mediocre Australian batting lineup.
 
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Shocking for Micky to publicly comment like this. Really haven't enjoyed having him as coach - from his televised histrionics earlier on in his stint, to his public comments on IK. Not only does he seek to pass the buck blame wise, but he is also a media hog, always wants the limelight. Immature person and nowhere near the class of Woolmer as a coach.
 
There must be something in the pakistan cricket set up. Even foreigners lose their seet when they join Pakistan cricket in any capacity.
 
totaly agree with the op.

arthur is starting to look out of his depth at the coaching role and is doing more to evidence his firings than his hirings both in his commentary and performances - including his footage of walking around to the players whilst practising.
 
And rahat cant even do well grassy pitches?

guess where did imran khan take his five fer?

in the desert.
 
FreePalestine said:
Shocking for Micky to publicly comment like this. Really haven't enjoyed having him as coach - from his televised histrionics earlier on in his stint, to his public comments on IK. Not only does he seek to pass the buck blame wise, but he is also a media hog, always wants the limelight. Immature person and nowhere near the class of Woolmer as a coach.
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Also how he made the whole tour about him and his return to his former employers
 
He has done well in the sub-continent, so not entirely a grass based bowler.
 
From whatever i have watched of Imran khan, he is a very disciplined bowler and asks a lot of questions of batsmen of faulty technique, he would have been a handful against the right handers specially handscomb who has a very iffy technique. I can't come to grips with the obsession for pace, when he has done a better job than his counterparts. I would permanently drop Wahab Riaz and Rahat Ali from all pakistan lineups and call up Hasan Ali. As far as comparisons go, i consider him miles better than wahab riaz and Rahat Ali in ALL conditions.
 
Mamoon said:
He is totally right. The sample size in the UAE is too small to conclude that Imran can do well on those pitches.

Look at his skill-set as a bowler - he has nothing going for him except for some seam movement; he can't swing the new ball and neither is he quick enough to be useful when there is reverse on offer. Which means that he is practically useless unless there is grass on the pitch.

All of these things will be proven with time the more he bowls. 8 Tests is not enough to claim that Arthur is wrong in his assessment.

Your blind criticism of Arthur is no different to Shehzad/Umar fans blindly criticizing Waqar for every problem. They were wrong in doing so and so are you.
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An inability to see what is right in front of you, ie reality, is the very definition of blindness.

Arthur is brazenly fantasizing about Imran not being able to perform on flat decks. That's all he's been doing.

It is entirely fair to point out this inconsistency.

The comparison to this Waqar scenario is a non sequitur.

We are not attempting to ascertain what Arthur might possibly be responsible for. We are simply evaluating
a rather strange statement on the basis of the evidence that is available to us.

There is much evidence to suggest that he is flat wrong. And no evidence to suggest that he is right. Merely
speculation.

If reality does not match your theory of how things should work then it is the theory that needs to change.
 
Fact is Rahat hasn't improved in 3 years so going nowhere. Need to bring in new pacers.

Look at Hassan Ali, angry and intense how a fast bowler should be.
 
New Yorker said:
An inability to see what is right in front of you, ie reality, is the very definition of blindness.

Arthur is brazenly fantasizing about Imran not being able to perform on flat decks. That's all he's been doing.

It is entirely fair to point out this inconsistency.

The comparison to this Waqar scenario is a non sequitur.

We are not attempting to ascertain what Arthur might possibly be responsible for. We are simply evaluating
a rather strange statement on the basis of the evidence that is available to us.

There is much evidence to suggest that he is flat wrong. And no evidence to suggest that he is right. Merely
speculation.

If reality does not match your theory of how things should work then it is the theory that needs to change.
Click to expand...

The problem is that 3-4 Tests is not enough evidence to overrule Mickey's assessment. In fact, it is no evidence at all.

Since there is not a substantial body of work here, I will put my faith in the words of the professional coach who is working with Imran on daily basis and observing him from closed quarters, rather than people who are concluding that he is wrong based on 3-4 matches.

Yes it is possible that Imran might prove him wrong in the long run, but the thought-process behind is assessment is legit.
 
These bowlers are all mediocre , that is harsh reality.

Pakistan need to do something and give chance to others , its better to give some new face a chance rather than stick with same mediocre stuff again and again.
 
Mamoon said:
The problem is that 3-4 Tests is not enough evidence to overrule Mickey's assessment. In fact, it is no evidence at all.

Since there is not a substantial body of work here, I will put my faith in the words of the professional coach who is working with Imran on daily basis and observing him from closed quarters, rather than people who are concluding that he is wrong based on 3-4 matches.

Yes it is possible that Imran might prove him wrong in the long run, but the thought-process behind is assessment is legit.
Click to expand...

I understand that you feel can trust Arthur. But let's be clear that your position is therefor built not on evidence, but on conjecture and belief.

Imran has bowled most of his Tests on flat decks and he has bowled well by most standards. To say that he can only do well if there is grass is therefore a manifestly false claim. You cannot argue with reality, I am sorry. He took those wickets for a fact, at Ave 26.

Now will he continue to do well in the future, in other circumstances, we cannot be certain, and there you may say it is open question. But is it not a question on which the available evidence is ambivalent. The evidence so far speaks only against Arthur.

So the onus of persuasion is on him.

Reality is always right
 
One thing that concerns me about Mickey Arthur is his stubborness and that once he makes an opinion, he doesn't change it. His statement on Imran Khan is garbage, the guy bowls his heart out, runs in ball after ball, he reverses the old ball and seams the new ball. Yes he does not have a lot of pace but he runs in and gives it his best ball after ball, spell after spell unlike Sohail Khan who gasses after 3 spells and takes 2-3 overs before getting into rhythm. If anything this guy has been very harshly done by in the last one year especially since the molly coddling of Amir.

Also Imran Khan can keep things tight, you can tell he has a bowling brain and all 6 balls out of 6 have a purpose behind them, you can rely on him to hold an end up and even bowl the odd wicket taking delivery. Fast bowling is all about rhythm and a guy sitting on the bench is not going to get better without game time.

Imran Khan needs to play the next test match to bring some much needed variety in a one dimensional bowling line up and Rahat is the guy who needs to make way.
 
Not the wisest way to motivate a desi guy. It either ends in anger or losing self confidence.


Mickey is lucky not to have people like Razzaq, Afridi or Yousuf under his wings. It would been a massive media controversy.
 
Looks to me like the comments about Imran's lack of pace and Sohail's lack of fitness might be a message to Inzamam to replace them with someone who has both those features to his bowling.

Welcome back, Asif!
 
Junaids said:
Looks to me like the comments about Imran's lack of pace and Sohail's lack of fitness might be a message to Inzamam to replace them with someone who has both those features to his bowling.

Welcome back, Asif!
Click to expand...
The Asif boat has sailed but I agree it is a message to find some guys that better than what we see from these guys.
 
Junaids said:
Looks to me like the comments about Imran's lack of pace and Sohail's lack of fitness might be a message to Inzamam to replace them with someone who has both those features to his bowling.

Welcome back, Asif!
Click to expand...

Though i agree with Arthur, but Arthur needs to justify Imran's dropping by performance.

Thing is, in UAE pitches, it has been Imran performing, so dropping him after 1 game isn't reasonable. Arthur himself made a mistake by not playing Imran in third UAE game agaisnt West Indies, which was a dead rubber match.

I like Inzamam as a selector. He doesn't select too many unnecessary selections. He has selected 4-5 pacers for every test series, this way the bowlers don't feel under threat about their selection.
 
Syed1 said:
Built on Bangladeshi and Sri Lankan scalps
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No. Can't manufacture myths when cricinfo is but a click away.

One Test each against Bang and SL, out of 8. 2 against Oz 2 against Eng 2 against NZ.

If Sri Lanka is easy to take wickets off, as you impute, why did Rahat and
Ehsan not also manage to do it?

Match by match list

Bat1 Bat2 Runs Wkts Conc Ct St Opposition Ground Start DateAscending
0* DNB 0 2 63 0 0 v Australia Dubai (DSC) 22 Oct
DNB DNB - 3 89 0 0 v Australia Abu Dhabi 30 Oct 2014
DNB DNB - 2 66 0 0 v New Zealand Abu Dhabi 9 Nov
DNB DNB - 2 87 0 0 v Bangladesh Dhaka 6 May
0 DNB 0 5 109 0 0 v Sri Lanka Pallekele 3 Jul
DNB 0 0 2 74 0 0 v England Abu Dhabi 13 Oct 2015
0* DNB 0 4 74 0 0 v England Dubai (DSC) 22 Oct
6 0 6 6 128 0 0 v New Zealand Hamilton 25 Nov
 
Junaids said:
Looks to me like the comments about Imran's lack of pace and Sohail's lack of fitness might be a message to Inzamam to replace them with someone who has both those features to his bowling.

Welcome back, Asif!
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Yes the same asif who starts panting in his second spill and who pretty much everyone agrees is useless after the new ball loses its shine ?
 
Slog said:
Yes the same asif who starts panting in his second spill and who pretty much everyone agrees is useless after the new ball loses its shine ?
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Isn't that what I said, and that you replied to?

It's only a game. You seem desperate to want to argue even when we are agreeing!
 
Its very sad to see comments like this about a player. Imran khan has done whatever has been asked of him. Has a solid average and takes wickets. I guess people like to see players like rahat who bowls one sensational delivery in five overs but takes hardly any wickets.
 
Junaids said:
Looks to me like the comments about Imran's lack of pace and Sohail's lack of fitness might be a message to Inzamam to replace them with someone who has both those features to his bowling.

Welcome back, Asif!
Click to expand...
Even a half fit Asif is better than Rahat, Imran and Sohail combined.
 
I saw the press conference.

Mickey Arthur was asked about the three left-armer attack.

He was actually harsher on Sohail Khan than Imran Khan, but basically his reply was that the three bowlers selected are the only three who can bowl multiple spells at a decent (i.e. Above 135) pace.

He was no derogatory or disrespectful.

Let's be honest: Imran would be cannon fodder here. He is as slow as Asif, but without the miserly control of line and length and without the movement or lift.
 
Small sample size in the UAE? Sure.

What sample size is Mickey Arthur using then to make his comments? It's been a few tests but Imran Khan has shown he does well in the UAE on the flattest of flat pitches.

Seems like an odd comment to make regardless. What purpose does it serve?
 
kingusama92 said:
Small sample size in the UAE? Sure.

What sample size is Mickey Arthur using then to make his comments? It's been a few tests but Imran Khan has shown he does well in the UAE on the flattest of flat pitches.

Seems like an odd comment to make regardless. What purpose does it serve?
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Purpose? Saving his skin
 
I agree with Mickey. Maybe we need to think of Hasan Ali or some other right armer in the squad.
 
Junaids said:
I saw the press conference.

Mickey Arthur was asked about the three left-armer attack.

He was actually harsher on Sohail Khan than Imran Khan, but basically his reply was that the three bowlers selected are the only three who can bowl multiple spells at a decent (i.e. Above 135) pace.

He was no derogatory or disrespectful.

Let's be honest: Imran would be cannon fodder here. He is as slow as Asif, but without the miserly control of line and length and without the movement or lift.
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A strange use of the term. Honesty here would be the actual opposite of fidelity to the facts, ie reasoning on the basis of what has verifiably happened. It asks us to speak not from fact but from interior conviction.

I can't predict the future, but I can tell for sure what has already happened in the past.

You can't claim that a guy who has taken nearly all of his wickets on flat decks cannot take wickets on flat decks.

And if he has taken wickets on flat decks in the UAE against OZ, one would not expect him to do worse against Oz in Oz, where there is more encouragement for a quick.

Its not the derogatory tone than I am concerned about but the casual relationship to reality. All the worse if Arthur thought that he was 'telling it like it is' to Imran.
 
Arthur is right on the money. His statement is a clear message that both Sohail Khan and Imran Khan were selected by the selection committee without any consultation from team management.
 
This guy has gotta play next match

At the VERY LEAST he bowls a tight line and won't go for 5 an over
 
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