In a first, IAF heads to Israel for drills

[javiersuka]

NEW DELHI: In a first, Indian forces are set to head for Israel to take part in joint military drills that will have significant strategic implications given the list of participants that includes US, France and Germany.

The joint aerial drills are being described as the biggest and most complex ever to be hosted by Israel. While details are yet to be worked out, defence ministry sources confirmed that an Indian Air Force team will participate in the Blue Flag exercise that is being hosted by Israel later in the year. “The participation is confirmed but details on which assets or how many personnel will take part are not yet available,” sources said.

This would mark the first time that India will take part in a multinational military drill in Israel, which has emerged as one of the primary weapons supplier to New Delhi with systems ranging from unmanned aerial vehicles to missile protection and small arms.

Reports from Tel Aviv quoting Israeli Air Force officials say that the Blue Flag exercise would involve seven nations besides Israel and could see participation by nearly 100 aircraft from around the world. The other participants include Poland, Greece and Italy.

The Indian Air Force has gained valuable expertise in the past during multi nation drills in the US, having participated in the Red Flag series of exercises. The last exercise was held in Alaska in May 2016 in which India sent four Su 30 MKIs, four Jaguar fighters and two IL 78 mid air tankers.

http://m.economictimes.com/news/def...to-israel-for-drills/articleshow/57782373.cms

Good to see India-Israel military co-ooeration blossoming.

 

[Swanny]

This PDA with Israel can only end in diisaster.

 

[Romali_rotti]

This PDA with Israel can only end in diisaster.

Its a lot safer than selling yourself to China & the US, believe me

 

[bleaf27]

Its a lot safer than selling yourself to China & the US, believe me

Haha Only if People in Pakistan were smart enough to read the fine print on the CPEC to understand what they are signing for ......

 

[czar]

Long Live India Israel Friendship.

 

[Swanny]

Its a lot safer than selling yourself to China & the US, believe me

Imo we should keep it under wraps.

 

[PakLFC]

Just yesterday Pak with the Saudis, Turks and Chinese gave India a clear message. It was inevitable that there would be some reaction from them as well. I am chilled, nothing for Pak to be worried about if that is what India's intention is.

 

[Romali_rotti]

Just yesterday Pak with the Saudis, Turks and Chinese gave India a clear message. It was inevitable that there would be some reaction from them as well. I am chilled, nothing for Pak to be worried about if that is what India's intention is.

India and Pakistan will never go to war imo, and India really doesnt care about the Turks or those useless good for nothing Saudi's lol.. However China is a major issue for India.........

 

[Romali_rotti]

Haha Only if People in Pakistan were smart enough to read the fine print on the CPEC to understand what they are signing for ......

China will be the final nail in Pakistan's coffin, they are slowly buying Pakistan..

 

[Romali_rotti]

Imo we should keep it under wraps.

Whats there to keep under wraps and act like cowards ? India is a run by Modi the man with the IRON FIST, he has become the first Indian leader to stop treating Israel like it's mistress and came out in the OPEN.. That the way it should be, Israel needs to be given the respect it deserves, the amount of military tech Israel is providing India is putting India ahead of China in specific areas..........

 

[Adil_94]

working with Israel will help Indias military a lot. Israels technology is the best in the world.

 

[mani1]

working with Israel will help Indias military a lot. Israels technology is the best in the world.

No it's not they can't even make a fighter jet engine despite getting 100s of billions in aid from the US and most likely transfer of tech too.

 

[Adil_94]

[MENTION=396]mani1[/MENTION] Israel is at the forefront of technology development. Its up there as one of the best tech countries and in science and computing too. when it comes to defence technology Israel is one of the best they are building the Iron Beam system to replace the highly effective Iron Dome.

 

[mani1]

[MENTION=396]mani1[/MENTION] Israel is at the forefront of technology development. Its up there as one of the best tech countries and in science and computing too. when it comes to defence technology Israel is one of the best they are building the Iron Beam system to replace the highly effective Iron Dome.

They still can't even develope a jet engine themselves.

As for the Iron Beam system which American system is it based on? Also where have there items been tested as Hamas, Hezbollah etc are hardly foes?

 

[Adil_94]

[MENTION=396]mani1[/MENTION] its not based on an american system. Israel can develop their own tech its the worlds first laser air defence system.

Israeli military has defeated Egypt Jordan and Syria 2 or 3 times before thats why 2 of them have made peace with Israel.
. Iron Beam is primarily to stop rockets from Hamas and Hezbollah who are the main military threats to Israel atm.
Israel is generally regarded as one of the top militaries in the world

 

[Romali_rotti]

They still can't even develope a jet engine themselves.

They don't need to develop jet engines, all their fighter jets come directly from the US, those jets which Israel gets are wayyyy more advanced than what US will give to any other buyer.Israel's main focus is on missile shield, missiles, radars, drones etc.................

 

[mani1]

[MENTION=396]mani1[/MENTION] its not based on an american system. Israel can develop their own tech its the worlds first laser air defence system.

Israeli military has defeated Egypt Jordan and Syria 2 or 3 times before thats why 2 of them have made peace with Israel.
. Iron Beam is primarily to stop rockets from Hamas and Hezbollah who are the main military threats to Israel atm.
Israel is generally regarded as one of the top militaries in the world

Yes with the help of not 1 but 2 major powers at the time the UK and France.

 

[mani1]

They don't need to develop jet engines, all their fighter jets come directly from the US, those jets which Israel gets are wayyyy more advanced than what US will give to any other buyer.Israel's main focus is on missile shield, missiles, radars, drones etc.................

Hence why I stated Israels technology is no where near the best in the world.

Coincidently which major non 3rd World power does Israel Supply?

 

[Adil_94]

[MENTION=396]mani1[/MENTION] If you are talking about 48-49 war and 67 wars then yes Israel got a lot of foreign aid and some weaponry by America. But militarily they deployed all their own troops. Egyptians under Nasser got a lot of aid and weaponry from Soviet Union too. Both supepowers were involved.

 

[mani1]

[MENTION=396]mani1[/MENTION] If you are talking about 48-49 war and 67 wars then yes Israel got a lot of foreign aid and some weaponry by America. But militarily they deployed all their own troops. Egyptians under Nasser got a lot of aid and weaponry from Soviet Union too. Both supepowers were involved.

Israel got massive help from the UK France USA and many many more.

Correct me if i'm wrong but didnt Israel not too long ago receive a hiding from rag tag Hezbolah when they tried to take back there captured soliders. After losing just 100 odd men they abandoned there objective and left with there tails between there legs.

Also Egypt gave Israel a hiding and almost defeated them hence why Nasser is/was considered a legend and is also why the Egyption Military is paid billions as it was not sustainable for Israel to keep fighting Egypt.

 

[Pakpak]

Israel got massive help from the UK France USA and many many more.

Correct me if i'm wrong but didnt Israel not too long ago receive a hiding from rag tag Hezbolah when they tried to take back there captured soliders. After losing just 100 odd men they abandoned there objective and left with there tails between there legs.

Also Egypt gave Israel a hiding and almost defeated them hence why Nasser is/was considered a legend and is also why the Egyption Military is paid billions as it was not sustainable for Israel to keep fighting Egypt.

A bit of a distorted view of history.

In 1967 Israel attacked all three Arab countries on the first day with its airforce, only 313 aircraft (and they used all of them). At the point of this attack they were not being reinforced by anyone and because of this attack the war was pretty much over by the first two days.

As for Nasser, another incorrect fact. Egypt was nowhere near close to defeating anyone. Israel controlled ALL of Sinai, all the Egyptians managed was holding some 20Km in the vast Sinai landmass. This picture illustrates better:



The only Egyptian gains were the minor dark red ones, while almost 95% of the Sinai remained with Israel.

Also the talk of reinforcements is a bit pointless seeing as:

-The Israelis were outnumbered 5:1 in every metric by 3 armies on 3 different sides, the reinforcements bought parity. And had the Israelis not stopped in both wars they would have rode into Cairo and Damascus. They were only 90KM from the former and on the outskirts of the latter.
-The Arabs themselves, esp the Egyptians with their SAM batteries, were supplied by the USSR.

Murderous and terrorist the Israelis are, however the military victories were unbelievable.

 

[JaDed]

NDA has been better in foreign relations compared to UPA. UAE,Israel,Qatar,Iran even Saudi has been providing resources with the pay ofcourse.

Russia sadly feel betrayed and rightly so.

 

[mani1]

A bit of a distorted view of history.


In 1967 Israel attacked all three Arab countries on the first day with its airforce, only 313 aircraft (and they used all of them). At the point of this attack they were not being reinforced by anyone and because of this attack the war was pretty much over by the first two days.

As for Nasser, another incorrect fact. Egypt was nowhere near close to defeating anyone. Israel controlled ALL of Sinai, all the Egyptians managed was holding some 20Km in the vast Sinai landmass. This picture illustrates better:

View attachment 73340

The only Egyptian gains were the minor dark red ones, while almost 95% of the Sinai remained with Israel.


Also the talk of reinforcements is a bit pointless seeing as:

-The Israelis were outnumbered 5:1 in every metric by 3 armies on 3 different sides, the reinforcements bought parity. And had the Israelis not stopped in both wars they would have rode into Cairo and Damascus. They were only 90KM from the former and on the outskirts of the latter.
-The Arabs themselves, esp the Egyptians with their SAM batteries, were supplied by the USSR.

Murderous and terrorist the Israelis are, however the military victories were unbelievable.

It is one thing tou be able to take control of something and it is another to be able to keep hold of it.

Hence Why they pulled out. The weapons the Israelis were supplied with were and still are much much greater than the Soviets.

As for modern times did Israel not abandon its ground objective to rescue it captured solidiers?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I don't know why we see so many threads about military matters in India or Pakistan considering they don't actually fight wars, and haven't for a long time. The Brits don't talk about it that much, but our armies are usually engaged somewhere in the world on a constant basis.

 

[Pakpak]

It is one thing tou be able to take control of something and it is another to be able to keep hold of it.

Hence Why they pulled out. The weapons the Israelis were supplied with were and still are much much greater than the Soviets.

As for modern times did Israel not abandon its ground objective to rescue it captured solidiers?

Israel was comfortably keeping hold off it, like it has held onto the Golan Heights, West Bank and Gaza since the war. Infact it was bringing in settlers from everywhere to colonise the Sinai. The only reason Israelis gave up the Sinai was in return for Egypt to recongise it. Egypt did it, and Jordan soon followed. The Arabs simply realised that even with a gigantic advantage numerically they did not have the brains to defeat Israel (the only gains by the Arabs in air battles was by Pakistani pilots). It is also the reason why Saudi Arabia, despite being the third largest spender in the world, still begs for Pakistani troops to fight its wars.

And no, the weapons at the time were more or less similar and even then as I said Israel was VASTLY outnumbered facing three armies. All the reinforcements did was bring parity. It is like 3 people attacking one person and complaining when the one person is being backed by someone else. Eg in the 1967 war, Israel realised it could not survive if all three Arab armies attacked it first so it pre-emptied them with their very limited airforce and destroyed their airforce all in a day. In 1973 Egypt had much superior defenses, their SAM batteries battered Israeli tanks and planes till the latter changed tactics to deal with them and the Egyptians could not innovate and retaliate back. The Soviets at times were extremely frustrated at battle plans, battle tactics and general inefficiency of the Arabs.

The Arab armies failed largely because of their very centralised command system, slowing everything down and with the local commanders not given autonomy to proceed on their own.

 

[Varun]

Just yesterday Pak with the Saudis, Turks and Chinese gave India a clear message. It was inevitable that there would be some reaction from them as well. I am chilled, nothing for Pak to be worried about if that is what India's intention is.

Like this was an overnight decision.

---

Israel is a military machine everybody can gain a lot from, especially from a technological perspective. This is a good move without any repercussions.

 

[mani1]

So why was Nasser considered a legend?

And why in recent times were they humiliated by Hezbollah?

 

[Slog]

Israel got massive help from the UK France USA and many many more.

Correct me if i'm wrong but didnt Israel not too long ago receive a hiding from rag tag Hezbolah when they tried to take back there captured soliders. After losing just 100 odd men they abandoned there objective and left with there tails between there legs.

Also Egypt gave Israel a hiding and almost defeated them hence why Nasser is/was considered a legend and is also why the Egyption Military is paid billions as it was not sustainable for Israel to keep fighting Egypt.

Lol which alternate reality do you live in where Egypt have Israel a hiding

Hilarious..

 

[Slog]

So why was Nasser considered a legend?

And why in recent times were they humiliated by Hezbollah?

Actually the Soviet Union US and UN came to egypts rescue otherwise the Suez Canal was taken over

As for hezbollah. It wasn't a war as such.

 

[Varun]

So why was Nasser considered a legend?

And why in recent times were they humiliated by Hezbollah?

Nasser wasn't considered a legend. Not after the fall of the United Arab Republic anyway. His stock dipped ferociously after that.

 

[mani1]

Nasser wasn't considered a legend. Not after the fall of the United Arab Republic anyway. His stock dipped ferociously after that.

Why was he before that?

 

[mani1]

Actually the Soviet Union US and UN came to egypts rescue otherwise the Suez Canal was taken over

As for hezbollah. It wasn't a war as such.

Israel was still well and truly humiliated by Hezbollah after they bottled it losing 100 odd men and had to negotiate the captured soliders release.

 

[mani1]

Lol which alternate reality do you live in where Egypt have Israel a hiding

Hilarious..

Maybe hiding was the wrong word but there is a reason why the Egyption military receives Billions in aid from the US to "Recognise" them.

 

[Pakpak]

Maybe hiding was the wrong word but there is a reason why the Egyption military receives Billions in aid from the US to "Recognise" them.

The reason isn't that complicated. The Arabs do not recognise Israel because they believe the land is stolen from Palestinians. If Israel is recognised then it is giving legitimacy to the theft. So the thinking is that if the Arabs recognise Israel then the Palestine issue will be over once and for all.

 

[Varun]

Why was he before that?

The re-conquering (nationalization) of the Suez Canal was the only reason.

 

[mani1]

The re-conquering (nationalization) of the Suez Canal was the only reason.

So Arabs believed Nasser won the war?

 

[mani1]

The reason isn't that complicated. The Arabs do not recognise Israel because they believe the land is stolen from Palestinians. If Israel is recognised then it is giving legitimacy to the theft. So the thinking is that if the Arabs recognise Israel then the Palestine issue will be over once and for all.

So they didn't in the slightest think they could be a threat and eventually wear down Israel if not via military means then at the very least financially?

 

[Slog]

So Arabs believed Nasser won the war?

Yes they do

At best the war was a stalemate

Ofcourse compared to the Six Day war Arabs can count this as a win

 

[Pakpak]

So they didn't in the slightest think they could be a threat and eventually wear down Israel if not via military means then at the very least financially?

Wear down Israel with what? They couldn't wear down Israel when they had the massive chance, how will they wear them down now when Israel is ahead of almost metric from HDI to their economy to their military power (and nukes)?

 

[mani1]

Wear down Israel with what? They couldn't wear down Israel when they had the massive chance, how will they wear them down now when Israel is ahead of almost metric from HDI to their economy to their military power (and nukes)?

Like how the Soviet Union was by Afghan goat herders

 

[Pakpak]

Like how the Soviet Union was by Afghan goat herders

Because Afghans were being supplied by a super-power. Who will fund the Arabs? No Arab country is stupid enough to attack Israel militarily again. And none have done so for decades for a very good reason. Their militaries are terrible, they have no proper airforces, no missiles, nothing. Saudi Arabia continues to buy tech and still asking Pakistanis to fight for and defend them

Had Egypt not recognised Israel they would have been half-the landmass they are now, same with Jordan.

 

[mani1]

Because Afghans were being supplied by a super-power. Who will fund the Arabs? No Arab country is stupid enough to attack Israel militarily again. And none have done so for decades for a very good reason. Their militaries are terrible, they have no proper airforces, no missiles, nothing. Saudi Arabia continues to buy tech and still asking Pakistanis to fight for and defend them

Had Egypt not recognised Israel they would have been half-the landmass they are now, same with Jordan.

Well the Saudis could have just like they allegedly did when the Chechen's beat Russia before Putin

 

[Pakpak]

Well the Saudis could have just like they allegedly did when the Chechen's beat Russia before Putin

The Saudis are not stupid. If they are not funding the Sunni dominated Hamas, who are right in Israel's back yard, there is no way they'd fun actively against them in the war.

 

[Swanny]

Whats there to keep under wraps and act like cowards ? India is a run by Modi the man with the IRON FIST, he has become the first Indian leader to stop treating Israel like it's mistress and came out in the OPEN.. That the way it should be, Israel needs to be given the respect it deserves, the amount of military tech Israel is providing India is putting India ahead of China in specific areas..........

I am personally opposed to supporting Israel openly as long as it continues to build settlements.

 

[Adil_94]

[MENTION=396]mani1[/MENTION] Nasser isnt considered a legend anymore. Pan Arabism flopped after the 67 war. He had public support after nationalising the Suez from the Britis and that was done with America telling Britain to withdraw.

Nasser was giving all the hype about crushing Israel and Egypt was utterly embarrassed and humiliated by Israel along with Jordan and Syria in the 6 day war capturing the West Bank Gaza the Sinai and Golan Heights.

He didnt come close to defeating Israel . He died in 1970 so never got to get revenge. The 73 war Egypt made some initial advances in the Sinai after acquiring Soviet tank destroyer missiles to destroy Israeli tanks but were eventually beaten and pushed back by the Israelis.

Egypt only got the Sinai back by agreeing to peace with Israel in 1978.

Israel was an occupying force in South Lebanon from 1982-2000 and yes Hezbollah managed to push them out of Lebanon in 2000 but in terms of casualties and infrastructure cost Israel has done a lot more damage to Hezbollah. Also now Israel has the Iron Dome and Iron Beam Hezbollah rockets would have little effect on it. Hezbollah has done well using guerilla tactics in lebanon but it could never advance into Israel and take Israeli territory.

 

[mani1]

[MENTION=396]mani1[/MENTION] Nasser isnt considered a legend anymore. Pan Arabism flopped after the 67 war. He had public support after nationalising the Suez from the Britis and that was done with America telling Britain to withdraw.

Nasser was giving all the hype about crushing Israel and Egypt was utterly embarrassed and humiliated by Israel along with Jordan and Syria in the 6 day war capturing the West Bank Gaza the Sinai and Golan Heights.

He didnt come close to defeating Israel . He died in 1970 so never got to get revenge. The 73 war Egypt made some initial advances in the Sinai after acquiring Soviet tank destroyer missiles to destroy Israeli tanks but were eventually beaten and pushed back by the Israelis.

Egypt only got the Sinai back by agreeing to peace with Israel in 1978.

Israel was an occupying force in South Lebanon from 1982-2000 and yes Hezbollah managed to push them out of Lebanon in 2000 but in terms of casualties and infrastructure cost Israel has done a lot more damage to Hezbollah. Also now Israel has the Iron Dome and Iron Beam Hezbollah rockets would have little effect on it. Hezbollah has done well using guerilla tactics in lebanon but it could never advance into Israel and take Israeli territory.

Well obviously but that humiliation they suffered in the hands of hezbollah means they won't dare attack Iran despite the Gulf Arabs and the whole West on there side.

 

[Pakpak]

Well obviously but that humiliation they suffered in the hands of hezbollah means they won't dare attack Iran despite the Gulf Arabs and the whole West on there side.

Not really, both conflicts are different. They could attack Iran and there is no real way Iran could respond. The only reason it does not attack Iran is due to the potential massive backlash it will face internationally especially after the nuclear deal Iran signed. And also the Russians will not permit it.

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=396]mani1[/MENTION] [MENTION=136193]Adil_94[/MENTION] There is no need for Israel alone to build a jet engine, it wouldn't be productive and a waste of money when they could purchase advanced/proven technologies from the likes of GE Aviation and Rolls Royce.

However, when it comes to UAV's and drones Israel is the largest exporter by accounting for 60% of the worldwide exports so it goes to show that they heavily invest in their aero companies and R&D. The US and UK are ahead in some areas when it comes to military supremacy but Israel is right up there

 

[mani1]

Not really, both conflicts are different. They could attack Iran and there is no real way Iran could respond. The only reason it does not attack Iran is due to the potential massive backlash it will face internationally especially after the nuclear deal Iran signed. And also the Russians will not permit it.

Doesn't Iran have Nukes? Also F14's are still half decent despite being old.
Didn't Iran also get the Russian anti missile thing that the Indians rave about?

 

[mani1]

[MENTION=396]mani1[/MENTION] [MENTION=136193]Adil_94[/MENTION] There is no need for Israel alone to build a jet engine, it wouldn't be productive and a waste of money when they could purchase advanced/proven technologies from the likes of GE Aviation and Rolls Royce.

However, when it comes to UAV's and drones Israel is the largest exporter by accounting for 60% of the worldwide exports so it goes to show that they heavily invest in their aero companies and R&D. The US and UK are ahead in some areas when it comes to military supremacy but Israel is right up there

Well I vaguely remember reading some wear the Israeli's tried making a plane Lavi I think using a US engine which they tried to selling it to the Chinese and Uncle Sam was furious and delayed aid lol.

There is a lot more money in selling fighter jets than there is re branding and modifying US drones etc.

 

[shaz619]

Well I vaguely remember reading some wear the Israeli's tried making a plane Lavi I think using a US engine which they tried to selling it to the Chinese and Uncle Sam was furious and delayed aid lol.

There is a lot more money in selling fighter jets than there is re branding and modifying US drones etc.

Am not a fan of anything Israeli besides the Power Rangers but they are pioneers in the area of Unmanned Aerial Vehicles and moving forward their use can't be underestimated and it's the among the most profitable and fastest growing market when it comes to military tech. Researching UAV's currently so I know that about Israel and not the other stuff. But when it comes to engines there really is no point developing your own unless you have a revolutionary concept in mind (Jet Engine does the job as it is) with the sufficient funds which I imagine would be in excess of billions, there are companies out there who are looking into rocket engines though there's one called the sabre engine and it is capable of a singe stage orbit and Mach 5 cruise (at the same efficiency of Jet Engine) that would change the way we travel around the world; a long way to go still in development and some breakthroughs have been made but just giving it as an example of the projects scale.

 

[Adil_94]

[MENTION=396]mani1[/MENTION] this humiliation u talking about ended up with more Lebanese civilians and Hezbollah fighting being killed. Hezbollah is good as a defensive force to keep Israel out of Lebanon but it cant attack Israel and advance into Israeli territory. The situation with Israel and Hezbollah is more of a stalemate. Hezbollah knows in a conventional war it cant defeat Israel but it is good as a guerilla group.

Hezbollah and Hamas goal of liberating the occupied territories in Palestine wont happen.

No Arab state or Iran will defeat Israel in a conventional war their armies are generally crap.

Only Pakistan and Turkey have a shot and Turkey itself is allies with Israel they share a lot of military links.

And Pakistan has its own problems without getting into a war with Israel.

 

[mani1]

[MENTION=396]mani1[/MENTION] this humiliation u talking about ended up with more Lebanese civilians and Hezbollah fighting being killed. Hezbollah is good as a defensive force to keep Israel out of Lebanon but it cant attack Israel and advance into Israeli territory. The situation with Israel and Hezbollah is more of a stalemate. Hezbollah knows in a conventional war it cant defeat Israel but it is good as a guerilla group.

Hezbollah and Hamas goal of liberating the occupied territories in Palestine wont happen.

No Arab state or Iran will defeat Israel in a conventional war their armies are generally crap.

Only Pakistan and Turkey have a shot and Turkey itself is allies with Israel they share a lot of military links.

And Pakistan has its own problems without getting into a war with Israel.

It was a humiliation because they were expected to complete there objective with ease and they couldnt. They killed mostly civillians.
No one expects a group of guerrillas with out support from a superpower to humiliate the mighty Israel whom the Geneva convention dont apply too. Along with International pressure.

I remember independant journalist Robert Fisk once writing Israeli papers are a lot more critical of Israel then any Western paper.

 

[Adil_94]

[MENTION=396]mani1[/MENTION] Haaretz is very critical of its own govt as are a lot of the left wing Israeli papers on the policies of Likud and the Israeli right and far right wing of continuing to build settlements in the West Bank and violate International Law.

western papers such as the Independent the Guardian do criticise Israel most left wing outlets do now. a lot of NGOs and Human Rights organisations also take a harsh stance on Israel for its semi apartheid like policies in the West Bank.

 

[hussain123]

Because Afghans were being supplied by a super-power. Who will fund the Arabs? No Arab country is stupid enough to attack Israel militarily again. And none have done so for decades for a very good reason. Their militaries are terrible, they have no proper airforces, no missiles, nothing. Saudi Arabia continues to buy tech and still asking Pakistanis to fight for and defend them

Had Egypt not recognised Israel they would have been half-the landmass they are now, same with Jordan.

Never understand why saudia despite their military budget 15 times greater than pakistan keeps begging it to safeguard the badshahat.where the heck do they do with their military spending?

 

[Bewal Express]

Never understand why saudia despite their military budget 15 times greater than pakistan keeps begging it to safeguard the badshahat.where the heck do they do with their military spending?

Like all Arab armies, they are cowards. They are only good at torturing and killing civilians. The Arab leaders like our own Sharifs and Zardaris are common criminals, who steal money and spend it abroad.

 

[Eagle_Eye]

Never understand why saudia despite their military budget 15 times greater than pakistan keeps begging it to safeguard the badshahat.where the heck do they do with their military spending?

They are tribal societies... they can't afford to give rival tribes power via the army. So they keep high positions amongst their own and rent the lower cadres...

Alawhites are a small minority in Syria, they gradually took over the army and ended up taking over the country...

 

[Pakpak]

Doesn't Iran have Nukes? Also F14's are still half decent despite being old.
Didn't Iran also get the Russian anti missile thing that the Indians rave about?

F14's are no match for anything IAF has unfortunately. The only way Iran could deal with an Israeli attack was by anti-aircraft batteries, which they are trying to get from Russians despite Western protests. Even then they would need a lot of them.

 

[Pakpak]

It was a humiliation because they were expected to complete there objective with ease and they couldnt. They killed mostly civillians.
No one expects a group of guerrillas with out support from a superpower to humiliate the mighty Israel whom the Geneva convention dont apply too. Along with International pressure.

I remember independant journalist Robert Fisk once writing Israeli papers are a lot more critical of Israel then any Western paper.

Hezbollah performed well, you're finally correct. Israel under-estimated them massively and realised much of their tanks and heavy infantry was proving to be useless in close combat in urban areas. Hence it resorted to disgusting indiscriminate bombing of civilians.

 

[Pakpak]

Never understand why saudia despite their military budget 15 times greater than pakistan keeps begging it to safeguard the badshahat.where the heck do they do with their military spending?

Military spending on its own is useless. Its like and me and you buying an F-16. While it looks good we would need to spend a decade being trained on it, being taught how to maintain it and learning how to replace any parts or how to adapt it to our weapons systems. All of which costs money and manpower and major tactical nous. Arabs are good at spending on these shiny toys but beyond that their know-how is useless. Iraq, with a rag-tag army, had the Saudis cowering and running for US support.

 

[PakLFC]

India and Pakistan will never go to war imo, and India really doesnt care about the Turks or those useless good for nothing Saudi's lol.. However China is a major issue for India.........

Of course you don't care about the Turks just like we don't about Israel. Pak and China need each other, I will always support China now that the CPEC thing has become so very crucial for both.

 

[PakLFC]

[MENTION=132715]Varun[/MENTION]

No such decisions are made overnight. It takes months of planning from all sides.

 

[bleaf27]

Of course you don't care about the Turks just like we don't about Israel. Pak and China need each other, I will always support China now that the CPEC thing has become so very crucial for both.

You don't really do much reading on the fine print , Have you seen on how the CPEC will fold ? China is Loaning money to Pakistan not investing in Pakistan , very different things. CPEC will make China invariably ccontrol the limited Pak economy even further. Chinese isn't stupid to help Pak regardless , CPEC is only fruitful to them while putting Pak in even more debt.

 

[bleaf27]

Hezbollah performed well, you're finally correct. Israel under-estimated them massively and realised much of their tanks and heavy infantry was proving to be useless in close combat in urban areas. Hence it resorted to disgusting indiscriminate bombing of civilians.

I think the fact that you dislike Israel and Support anything Islamic should be enough for the argument. If you go into facts and put personal emotions aside , it might be a different story.

 

[Pakpak]

I think the fact that you dislike Israel and Support anything Islamic should be enough for the argument. If you go into facts and put personal emotions aside , it might be a different story.

You seem to have significant comprehension issues as:

a) in this entire thread I have praised Israel's military tactics leading to some unbelievable victories
b) I do not really believe in any religion

 

[Saeed]

You seem to have significant comprehension issues as:

a) in this entire thread I have praised Israel's military tactics leading to some unbelievable victories
b) I do not really believe in any religion

why are you biased against Israel though? Is it because they value knowledge and the only democracy in Middle East?

 

[PakLFC]

You don't really do much reading on the fine print , Have you seen on how the CPEC will fold ? China is Loaning money to Pakistan not investing in Pakistan , very different things. CPEC will make China invariably ccontrol the limited Pak economy even further. Chinese isn't stupid to help Pak regardless , CPEC is only fruitful to them while putting Pak in even more debt.

I do plenty off reading so you need not worry about that. CPEC has many critics as would be the case with any such massive project. That is how it should be as it is never wise to go in to anything blindly. Off course I am not fully happy about putting everything in the Chinese pot being almost entirely dependent on them for everything. That is why I often criticise the current government over their immature attitude towards CPEC but I am hopeful with the general elections approaching a new government will change their approach towards CPEC revisiting our strategy towards it. Much of Baluchistan is still unhappy about this project as well, these people also need to be taken on board. There are various ways how CPEC can materialise depending how we play our cards on it.

 

[Waseem]

Its a lot safer than selling yourself to China & the US, believe me

Indians are so funny, plenty of Indians on social media are worried about China misusing Pakistan on CPEC. I am so glad to see such love and from Indians

Their friendship with Israel, US etc is diplomatic win while Pakistan's business deals are called "Selling yourself"

 

[PakLFC]

Those Pakistanis who think that India or it's people want CPEC to be a success are living on Mars! Firstly, India has nothing to do with it yet they seem more interested and concerned about it more then we are. Should have seen how Indian channels were covering the Pakistan Day parade telling each other how Saudi's, Chinese and Turks was not an issue for them. When they do drills with Israel it's the greatest thing ever based on shared interests but when we do it as the above poster has said China are taking over Pakistan !

 

[Swanny]

Modi is a total embarrasment when it comes to foreign policy too. Imo in this regards you should learn from Obama. That guy was conducting drone bombing in 7 different countries while flaunting his Nobel Peace Prize. He was hailed as this great leader throughout the world even though he stripped people of their right to privacy & also spied on several world leaders including their allies.

Supporting Israel openly especially now threatens the chance of peace in the Middle East. Modi & his administration has revealed itself as the biggest dunces & is contrary to our policy of promoting peace in the region.

 

[bleaf27]

Those Pakistanis who think that India or it's people want CPEC to be a success are living on Mars! Firstly, India has nothing to do with it yet they seem more interested and concerned about it more then we are. Should have seen how Indian channels were covering the Pakistan Day parade telling each other how Saudi's, Chinese and Turks was not an issue for them. When they do drills with Israel it's the greatest thing ever based on shared interests but when we do it as the above poster has said China are taking over Pakistan !

You are so deluded bud but I'll definitely bring you to speed. Indians are quite well aware and educated so in terms of padosis and any significant deals in the region they are quite aware. I definitely do want the CPEC to go through and I'll show you why because CPEC is definitely Pak digging its own grave. I'm sure you must have done a lot of research on CPEC , I did quite little but I'll highlight some points so everyone jumping on CPEC train atleast know it is, unlike 90% of the Pakistani population who wouldn't have read much on it.

Some views on CPEC

1 - The CPEC is based on a $46 Billion loan that Pakistan has taken from China. It is not an FDI that China will recover from the proceeds of the CPEC. The success of CPEC depends on China’s economy remaining successful and free of global sanctions to freely move its goods to the rest of the world. This certainty has recently turned suspect under the new US administration. What happens when the CPEC fails to generate the proverbial golden eggs?
2 - Military sovereignty at risk too - China has sent a naval ship and other military assets to “safeguard” its investment. If the port is in Pakistan and the ships are docked in Pakistan’s territorial waters, what is China protecting its investments against? It is doubtful that a boatload of armed terrorists will arrive from Mumbai to indiscriminately shoot the Chinese or Pakistanis! To a casual observer, it seems an awful lot like China is setting up a small naval base in Pakistan to militarily control this part of the world.
3 - it is estimated that the movement of Chinese goods over the next decade will be $1 Trillion. And no, that is not a typo! All that business growth for China, while Pakistan assumes all the risk and is liable for the $46 Billion loan. Suddenly the $46 Billion seems like loose change, which it is for China. But it is a mountain of a loan for Pakistan.
4-Indigenous industry - China has an established track record of arriving much like a horde of locusts and completely wiping out the local indigenous industry. The floodgates to Pakistan have been opened to the Chinese and it is just a matter of time before Chinese goods do the Walmart-effect on Pakistani industry and destroy what is left of it. Perhaps Pakistan could learn a lesson or two from neighbouring India’s "Make in India” initiative to not only sustain local industry but also master strategic technology in-house.

Some fascinating points I've come across

 

[Romali_rotti]

Their friendship with Israel, US etc is diplomatic win while Pakistan's business deals are called "Selling yourself"

Well bro last I heard 3 of your airports are getting leased to China in the coming future

 

[Pakpak]

Well bro last I heard 3 of your airports are getting leased to China in the coming future

A lot of airports do, Britain's airports are the same as well. Nothing 'fishy' about it.

 

[GujjarLife]

Indians are more interested and worried about CPEC than Pakistanis themselves.......

 

[javiersuka]

Israel offers strike-capable drones to India

http://m.hindustantimes.com/india-news/israel-offers-strike-capable-drones-to-india/story-ESe9gLpZPGStvUgUgngEPO.html