India, a future major competitor to the US? What about 'Foreigners stealing American jobs'?

[Yossarian]

This thread is in response to posts on another thread (since deleted) where a poster was claiming that the pro India, Indian American lobby in the US will soon be on a par with the Jewish lobby in the US in terms of power and significance, therby influencing/determining US/Indian relations, and making them strategic partners with common interests.
........

If Indians think that growing influence and power of an Indian lobby in the US will eventually result in a US/India relationship similar to the US/Israel relationship that exists due to the Jewish lobby in the US then they had better think again.

Apart from anything else, Israel, due to its population size, is not an economic threat to the US. India on the other hand will become one before too long as it continues to develop, due to its population being more than 3 times larger than that of the US. You only have to look at how the USA is getting more aggressive towards China every day despite the fact that China is the USA's biggest trading partner. The Americans don't like competition unless they can have control over that competition.

Trump has based his Presidential victory on 'stopping foreigners from stealing American jobs'. Currently his fire is directed at cars, autoparts and other manufacturers who have relocated their manufacturing plants to Mexico due to the lower wages and labour costs there. He's talking about imposing very high customs taxes along with trade barriers, as well as other measures, unless they relocate back to the USA. He's on the verge of withdrawing from NAFTA in that regard.

With that in mind, what do you think that Trump (or a successor with similar views re 'stopping foreigners from stealing American jobs') will, eventually, do if India starts being seen as becoming an economic competitor as well as 'stealing American jobs'?

Discuss.

(And don't turn this into yet another Pakistan v India diatribe)

 

[Napa]

I don't think the Indian lobby will rival the Jewish lobby anytime soon. The Indian-Americans are smaller in number and do not dominate academia, finance and the media the way the Jews do. Also most Indians do not strongly feel about political issues. Some are pro-Modi, some are anti-Modi.

Also, unlike Israel, there are no particularly pressing political issues for which India needs American help. Israel is in a continuous state of war with much larger neighboring countries. India could use some help in stopping the attacks on its forces in Kashmir, but the US has limited ability to help in that matter. In fact, the US can't even get Pakistan to stop arming the Taliban which has been killing US soldiers.

If I ask my Indian friends who live in the US "Do you think there is any issue of American policy that you would spend your money and time to change?", the answer will probably be "No".

Indian and US policies are increasingly congruent, especially with a realist like Trump in charge. There are no huge areas of disagreement. India makes money from selling services to the US, but overall its trade balances out (unlike China which runs consistent surpluses).

The thing that India needs to do is to make foreign investment safe and provide infrastructure to enable Western firms to move their manufacturing from China to India. That may be happening at a slow pace (for example the auto ancillaries industry) but needs to be speeded up.

 

[Napa]

As I was saying, India and US don't have major areas of disagreement and are natural allies. There isn't a whole lot for an Indian lobby to accomplish.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/18/us/politics/tillerson-india-china-pakistan.html

 

[Varun]

Textbook paranoia.

We ain't going to dominate a thing bar jobs in Silicon valley and such. Sleep easy.

 

[Madplayer]

India wont be as close an ally as Israel to US but it can surely do enough to influence US in its dealings with Pakistan. That should be a cause of worry for Pakistanis.

 

[tandapanii]

India a competitor? It lives off of money from the US, how will it be a competitor?

 

[Varun]

India a competitor? It lives off of money from the US, how will it be a competitor?

Yeah nah.

We have a positive trade deficit with the US.

 

[tandapanii]

Yeah nah.

We have a positive trade deficit with the US.

Yeah nah.

65.1 billion dollars of aid from 1946-2012.

 

[Varun]

Yeah nah.

65.1 billion dollars of aid from 1946-2012.

Good to know we haven't taken aid for the better part of half a decade and counting now. My point stands.

 

[tandapanii]

Good to know we haven't taken aid for the better part of half a decade and counting now. My point stands.

Yeah nah.

India receives aid from the world bank, Japan, UK, USA and many other countries. The UK tried to state that it would no longer send aid post 2015 but an investigation last year found that it was still sending aid but with a different name.

Yeah nah.

 

[Varun]

Yeah nah.

India receives aid from the world bank, Japan, UK, USA and many other countries. The UK tried to state that it would no longer send aid post 2015 but an investigation last year found that it was still sending aid but with a different name.

Yeah nah.

Irrelevant to your initial point and the context of this thread:

India a competitor? It lives off of money from the US, how will it be a competitor?

 

[tandapanii]

Irrelevant to your initial point and the context of this thread:

Its not irrelevant. India cant be a competitor if it still relies on US aid. My point still stands as you said it did not.

 

[vagabond007ti]

India and US may have slight conflict on service industry and H1b visa issues but in a larger context, there are no major disagreement or conflicting interests between India and US.
also for US bigger competitor is China and US sees India as an ally in the region to tame China. Of course India also needs all help it can get to counter China.
Unless India overtakes China as bigger economy which I don't think will happen in decades, I dont think US will see India as a competitor.

 

[vagabond007ti]

Its not irrelevant. India cant be a competitor if it still relies on US aid. My point still stands as you said it did not.

Didn't you say no US aid for last half decade? How does it still rely on US aid?

 

[Napa]

Yeah nah.

India receives aid from the world bank, Japan, UK, USA and many other countries. The UK tried to state that it would no longer send aid post 2015 but an investigation last year found that it was still sending aid but with a different name.

Yeah nah.

Do you have a cite for your claims or are you making stuff up?

India hasn't received any major amounts of handouts for over 2 decades now, and for the last decade has been a net aid donor:

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...d-to-other-countries/articleshow/51248139.cms

Calling loans from World Bank aid is misleading. The World Bank actually makes money on its Indian loans, which helps offset the losses it incurs on loans to other countries. At the moment, the WB needs India more than India needs the WB, which does not want to lose India as a customer as it would immediately make its loan portfolio much worse.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2013/08/19/is-india-too-rich-for-world-bank-loans/

 

[Napa]

The UK tried to state that it would no longer send aid post 2015 but an investigation last year found that it was still sending aid but with a different name.

Good example of a misleading and perfectly useless internet post. Apparently UK "aid" to India has been about GBP 283 million (about $400 million) for the period 2011 to 2016.

https://www.theguardian.com/global-...ays-department-international-development-dfid

India's GDP during the same time has averaged around $2,000 bn, or a total of $14,000 bn over the entire period. So UK "aid" is less than 0.003% of India's income.

UK's "aid" is about finding employment for some Britishers rather than any meaningful impact on India.

UK hoped that it would get the $10 billion fighter jet contract from India and some called India "ungrateful". Give $400 million and expect to get back $10,000 million, nice!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...68/Turbulence-ahead-with-Indian-jet-deal.html

 

[tandapanii]

Didn't you say no US aid for last half decade? How does it still rely on US aid?

I never said that.

 

[IndYeah1]

OP's insecurities and fears are so transparent! Do the noises coming out of the US State dept about the newfound bonhomie with India scare you? Don't fret little one.

The bottomline is that US policies are invariably dictated, and centered around the profit motive. Allowing manufacturing to shift to China cost Americans, literally millions of jobs. Did the US change its approach? No. Why? Because shifting manufacturing to China enabled American business owners to make even bigger profits. And ultimately they are the ones who pay for the politicians' expensive re-election campaigns. And they are the constituency that the politicians will always take care of.

Similarly, India is on a multi-year, multi-billion dollar shopping spree - to upgrade its infrastructure, government capacities, and not the least its armed forces. That's a huge opportunity for the US, which can and will make billions of dollars in arms sales. Cue all the friendly talk and "shared values" lip service that is constantly served up by the US establishment.

TLDR - Let me sum it up in a way and language that Pakistanis instantly relate to, even while some you loudly proclaim how much you love to hate it - Bollywood.

Than than ki suno jhankaar, Yeh Duniya hai Kaala Baazaar. Yeh Paisa bolta hai, yeh Paisa bolta hai

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

OP's insecurities and fears are so transparent! Do the noises coming out of the US State dept about the newfound bonhomie with India scare you? Don't fret little one.

The bottomline is that US policies are invariably dictated, and centered around the profit motive. Allowing manufacturing to shift to China cost Americans, literally millions of jobs. Did the US change its approach? No. Why? Because shifting manufacturing to China enabled American business owners to make even bigger profits. And ultimately they are the ones who pay for the politicians' expensive re-election campaigns. And they are the constituency that the politicians will always take care of.

Similarly, India is on a multi-year, multi-billion dollar shopping spree - to upgrade its infrastructure, government capacities, and not the least its armed forces. That's a huge opportunity for the US, which can and will make billions of dollars in arms sales. Cue all the friendly talk and "shared values" lip service that is constantly served up by the US establishment.

TLDR - Let me sum it up in a way and language that Pakistanis instantly relate to, even while some you loudly proclaim how much you love to hate it - Bollywood.

Than than ki suno jhankaar, Yeh Duniya hai Kaala Baazaar. Yeh Paisa bolta hai, yeh Paisa bolta hai

I do love the eternal optimism of Indian patriots. They can sing Bollywood songs about paisa bolta hai while the masses are still living in grinding poverty. But that is now, the future is sha-sha-sha-shining!

 

[KingKhanWC]

Indian lobby will never become as strong as the Israeli lobby.

US and Israel are united as Judo-Christian allies.

Indians are brown people with some eastern religion. US will use them for it's own interests while it will do anything for the interests of Israel.

 

[Yossarian]

From the OP.

(And don't turn this into yet another Pakistan v India diatribe)

And yet .......

TLDR - Let me sum it up in a way and language that Pakistanis instantly relate to, even while some you loudly proclaim how much you love to hate it - Bollywood.

Than than ki suno jhankaar, Yeh Duniya hai Kaala Baazaar. Yeh Paisa bolta hai, yeh Paisa bolta hai

 

[IndYeah1]

From the OP.



And yet .......

What are you whining about? I gave you a straightforward logical answer to your question, and said nothing about Pakistan - diatribe or otherwise. Read my post before you jump to the wrong conclusions at least.

 

[waqar goraya]

But the more pertinent question is why US considers China an evil competitor?

Besides South China sea's oil and different political set up in both countries what else bother US so much about China?

 

[Yossarian]

What are you whining about? I gave you a straightforward logical answer to your question, and said nothing about Pakistan - diatribe or otherwise. Read my post before you jump to the wrong conclusions at least.

Denigrating and belittling Pakistanis when the thread has nothing to do with Pakistan or Pakistanis, and which is intended to discuss economic relations between India and the USA, is definitely 'yet another Pakistan v India diatribe'.

I suggest you go back and re-read your own posts. And stop indulging in needless (disparaging) comparisons with Pakistan or Pakistanis - the thread is not about Pakistan or Pakistanis, but about India, Indians, USA, Americans, and perhaps also comparisons with China and/or Israel, but definitely not Pakistan or Pakistanis.

 

[English August]

Yeah nah.

65.1 billion dollars of aid from 1946-2012.

Could you cite source for this data point?

 

[LegCutter]

I don't think the Indian lobby will rival the Jewish lobby anytime soon. The Indian-Americans are smaller in number and do not dominate academia, finance and the media the way the Jews do. Also most Indians do not strongly feel about political issues. Some are pro-Modi, some are anti-Modi.

This, word for word. Nobody will ever dominate American academia, finance and media like the Jews. They are intellectual heavyweights in very, very influental positions; Indians will flood Silicon Valley but outside of Silicon Valley, they don't have much influence, especially in places that shape national policy or public outreach.

It may be interesting if they did. The average American may be able to accept Jewish dominance but brown-people dominance will result in hysteria beyond anything Trump has preached.

 

[tandapanii]

Could you cite source for this data point?

Aap Google use kar sak te hai?

 

[maxamax]

Competition is always based on innovations being made by country. Amrika started it by blasing first ever atom bomb then landing on the moon following by tech rise.

Israel will always be useful due to their critical innovations. The computer you're using to type here probably contains a multi-core processor (unless its of 90s). Israel started that thing. They're better placed to deal with many incurable diseases with their research in stem-cells. They'll always have their bunch of things that the whole world needs/uses hence will always be the allies of west.

Let me get it straight, India infact whole subcontinent (I'll go as far as including China) are not leaders. They possess 0 leadership qualities (That is why there's no heartly-loved politician/leader in your country). India is only having better economy due to their interaction with developed countries. Their population is huge so many big companies have invested there to empower them economically. Moreover, they've always given west affordable slaves. There are many fortune-500 companies with Indians as head because they can be a good and sasta 'Farooq Sattar' for 'Altaf Hussain'. While those people may influence the lives of Indian with little improvement and employment opportunities, but they will never cross US that way as that plate they're eating in is the US itself, and US won't share much of it with a single nation.


Same goes for china, its a huge but enslaved country. Lacks innovation, can only copy US products at max. You'll always see product designs coming form US while Foxconn works on it. They may have debt on US but they know that they can not do any good without US so they'll never be ready to cross them out.


If any country got potential to challenge US, its Russia. They are capable to innovate and can do good if they unite with other dumb giants.

 

[Napa]

But the more pertinent question is why US considers China an evil competitor?

Besides South China sea's oil and different political set up in both countries what else bother US so much about China?

Mainly a consistent trade deficit of about $400 billion a year with China, while manufacturing collapses and formerly thriving areas become "rust-belt".

Of course, major American lobbies (mainly corporate lobbies) have been complicit in this happening.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Competition is always based on innovations being made by country. Amrika started it by blasing first ever atom bomb then landing on the moon following by tech rise.

Israel will always be useful due to their critical innovations. The computer you're using to type here probably contains a multi-core processor (unless its of 90s). Israel started that thing. They're better placed to deal with many incurable diseases with their research in stem-cells. They'll always have their bunch of things that the whole world needs/uses hence will always be the allies of west.

Let me get it straight, India infact whole subcontinent (I'll go as far as including China) are not leaders. They possess 0 leadership qualities (That is why there's no heartly-loved politician/leader in your country). India is only having better economy due to their interaction with developed countries. Their population is huge so many big companies have invested there to empower them economically. Moreover, they've always given west affordable slaves. There are many fortune-500 companies with Indians as head because they can be a good and sasta 'Farooq Sattar' for 'Altaf Hussain'. While those people may influence the lives of Indian with little improvement and employment opportunities, but they will never cross US that way as that plate they're eating in is the US itself, and US won't share much of it with a single nation.


Same goes for china, its a huge but enslaved country. Lacks innovation, can only copy US products at max. You'll always see product designs coming form US while Foxconn works on it. They may have debt on US but they know that they can not do any good without US so they'll never be ready to cross them out.


If any country got potential to challenge US, its Russia. They are capable to innovate and can do good if they unite with other dumb giants.

This post rings true.

 

[English August]

Aap Google use kar sak te hai?

Thanks for confirming that you were making stuff up, just like I had suspected. India definitely did not get $65B aid during the time period you mentioned.

Fibs exposed.

 

[Ocelot]

Thanks for confirming that you were making stuff up, just like I had suspected. India definitely did not get $65B aid during the time period you mentioned.

Fibs exposed.

At over $65 billion, India is biggest recipient of US economic aid over 1946-2012 period

"India received the largest amount of economic aid from the United States between 1946 and 2012, while Israel got the greatest quantity of military assistance from the country, according to data compiled by USAID."

You're welcome.

 

[English August]

At over $65 billion, India is biggest recipient of US economic aid over 1946-2012 period

"India received the largest amount of economic aid from the United States between 1946 and 2012, while Israel got the greatest quantity of military assistance from the country, according to data compiled by USAID."

You're welcome.

Not so fast. Link?

 

[CricketCartoons]

At over $65 billion, India is biggest recipient of US economic aid over 1946-2012 period

"India received the largest amount of economic aid from the United States between 1946 and 2012, while Israel got the greatest quantity of military assistance from the country, according to data compiled by USAID."

You're welcome.

That is surprising data. While India received 65billion dollars, the UK received ~64billion in aid. Humiliating for the UK if true. Not even going into per capita aid. Shame on the UK if it takes aid like a third world country.

 

[Ocelot]

Not so fast. Link?

It's in the bold statement, hover your pointer over it and find it.

 

[Ocelot]

That is surprising data. While India received 65billion dollars, the UK received ~64billion in aid. Humiliating for the UK if true. Not even going into per capita aid. Shame on the UK if it takes aid like a third world country.

I guess that's because of the Marshall Plan that U.S dished out to rebuild Western Countries after the destruction caused by WWII. U.K was the largest recipient.

 

[CricketCartoons]

I guess that's because of the Marshall Plan that U.S dished out to rebuild Western Countries after the destruction caused by WWII. U.K was the largest recipient.

Quite generous of the United States..that it bailed out the UK with its charity. Stark comparison with the so called aid the Uk gives to its former colonies..after looting them for years. UK has a long way to go before it can atone for all its sins..probably have a Muslim PM would be a good start, and taking in more immigrants/refugees form third world nations.

 

[waqar goraya]

Mainly a consistent trade deficit of about $400 billion a year with China, while manufacturing collapses and formerly thriving areas become "rust-belt".

Of course, major American lobbies (mainly corporate lobbies) have been complicit in this happening.

But i believe it is the politics rather than trade deficit which bothers US. Some economists even don't think of trade deficit in itself a major risk for the economy.
West has practically dominated the world for well over 2 centuries. They don't want their power to end or share it with the east.

 

[Napa]

But i believe it is the politics rather than trade deficit which bothers US. Some economists even don't think of trade deficit in itself a major risk for the economy.

I should have been more clear, there are different groups in the US. It is the working class which despises China for the loss of manufacturing jobs, not the entire country.

West has practically dominated the world for well over 2 centuries. They don't want their power to end or share it with the east.

That reason could also be true, especially for those who are more invested in the idea of the US as #1.

 

[Napa]

But i believe it is the politics rather than trade deficit which bothers US. Some economists even don't think of trade deficit in itself a major risk for the economy.

I should have been more clear, there are different groups in the US. It is the working class which despises China for the loss of manufacturing jobs, not the entire country.

West has practically dominated the world for well over 2 centuries. They don't want their power to end or share it with the east.

That reason could also be true, especially for those who are more invested in the idea of the US as #1.

 

[Napa]

At over $65 billion, India is biggest recipient of US economic aid over 1946-2012 period

"India received the largest amount of economic aid from the United States between 1946 and 2012, while Israel got the greatest quantity of military assistance from the country, according to data compiled by USAID."

You're welcome.

There are lots of clarifications needed before these numbers mean anything. Does the $65 billion include loans? Does it include money for purchase of over-priced US equipment or US contractors?

Also note that the same article says Pakistan received $44 billion, which per capita would make it second only to Israel and about 4X what India got.

Also at this point 1946 is ancient history. More interesting is what happened the last couple of decades.

Finally, the amount of money generated by Indians (one of the most economically successful minorities) for the US, dwarfs any "aid" the US may have given.

Not so fast. Link?

It is embedded in the sentence.

 

[tandapanii]

Thanks for confirming that you were making stuff up, just like I had suspected. India definitely did not get $65B aid during the time period you mentioned.

Fibs exposed.

What did you expose? Read my post again. You must do a little of your own research.

 

[tandapanii]

There are lots of clarifications needed before these numbers mean anything. Does the $65 billion include loans? Does it include money for purchase of over-priced US equipment or US contractors?

Also note that the same article says Pakistan received $44 billion, which per capita would make it second only to Israel and about 4X what India got.

Also at this point 1946 is ancient history. More interesting is what happened the last couple of decades.

Finally, the amount of money generated by Indians (one of the most economically successful minorities) for the US, dwarfs any "aid" the US may have given.



It is embedded in the sentence.

Seriously, you all need to improve your English. The article is not stating that the money was received in 1946. It was received from 1946-2012 and the money being included here is on aid, not trade or anything else. This doesnt even include the aid India received from communist Russia or the UK or Japan etc etc etc.

And what does Pakistan have to do with this thread?

 

[Napa]

Seriously, you all need to improve your English. The article is not stating that the money was received in 1946. It was received from 1946-2012 and the money being included here is on aid, not trade or anything else. This doesnt even include the aid India received from communist Russia or the UK or Japan etc etc etc.

And what does Pakistan have to do with this thread?

Not enough substance in your posts (this one and the one in the other thread) to merit answers.

 

[tandapanii]

Not enough substance in your posts (this one and the one in the other thread) to merit answers.

And yet you answer Gandhi jee!

 

[sshakir411]

Indians losing depth. Bringing in Pakistan and the money earned by Indians living in US to justify getting the most aid. As much as Indians like to make fun of Pakistanis...seems like their beggar bowl is the biggest of the lot.

 

[big_gamer007]

Indians losing depth. Bringing in Pakistan and the money earned by Indians living in US to justify getting the most aid. As much as Indians like to make fun of Pakistanis...seems like their beggar bowl is the biggest of the lot.

I think the posts suggest India needed help till 2012 it's important to grow as an economy and become self reliant eventually, if India still keeps getting bailouts for next 50 years then it would be embarrassing but if we have become self reliant then it's something to be proud of which Pakistan/Pakistanis can look up to and become the same...
[MENTION=142162]Napa[/MENTION] what's the current status you know mate?

 

[Yossarian]

Apart from anything else, Israel, due to its population size, is not an economic threat to the US. India on the other hand will become one before too long as it continues to develop

(And don't turn this into yet another Pakistan v India diatribe)

Despite a back handed compliment in the OP regarding the development of India into an emerging economic powerhouse, our Indian friends just simply can't resist disparaging Pakistan and Pakistanis in order to big up India and Indians.

Hey, it's not a competition!

No matter what, due to sheer force of numbers population wise, India will become an economic powerhouse if it isn't one already.

India has roughly the same population as all of Europe (inc European parts of Turkey and Russia), USA, Canada, Australia, NZ, Japan, Mexico combined! So of course it will be an economic powerhouse.

(India 1,324 million
Europe, inc European parts of Turkey and Russia, 710 million
Japan 127 million
Canada 37 million
Australia 24 million
New Zealand 4.5 million
USA 323 million
Mexico 127 million)

 

[Chrish]

India is a failed state run by pathetic bunch of parasites..

Can India ever compete with major economies of the globe? Not in this lifetime!

PS there is no pride in being better than Pakistan

 

[Arham_PakFan]

India raises import duties on agricultural,steel products to protest U.S. tariff hike

NEW DELHI, June 21 (Reuters) - India has increased import duties on some agricultural and steel products that are imported from the U.S. in retaliation against Washington’s new global tariffs on steel and aluminium, according to a government note seen on Thursday.

Last month, India had given a list of products to the WTO that it said could incur higher tariffs.

https://www.reuters.com/article/usa...ducts-to-protest-us-tariff-hike-idUSI8N1RJ01R