India becoming a top team in world due to improvement in cricket structure: Imran Khan

[Savak]

India becoming a top team in world due to improvement in cricket structure: Imran Khan

Imran said Pakistan had always been a good team but could not become a world-beating side because of the non-productive cricket structure.

PTI

PUBLISHED ON FEB 14, 2021 09:50 PM IST

Pakistan Prime Minister and former captain Imran Khan believes India is becoming a top team in the world after improving its basic cricket structure.

Imran said Pakistan had always been a good team but could not become a world-beating side because of the non-productive cricket structure.

"Look at India today, they are becoming a top team in the world because they improved their structure although we have more talent,” Imran said, talking to the media in Islamabad.

“It takes time for a structure to work and polish talent but I am confident our team will become world beaters,” he added.

The Prime Minister felt that with the provincial cricket structure in place now in the country, results will come through in two to three years' time.

Imran, who is also the patron-in-chief of the Pakistan Cricket Board and nominates the chairman, said due to his busy schedule he did not have much time for the game.

“Honestly speaking I am not able to spare time for cricket and have not even watched the matches but now that our basic cricket structure has been changed things will improve gradually,” he said.

Imran captained Pakistan to its only World Cup win in 1992 in Australia and is a highly respected and revered figure in the country for his captaincy and performances on a cricket field.

Soon after winning the elections in 2018 and forming the government, Imran brought in former ICC President Ehsan Mani to run Pakistan Cricket Board.

In the last two years, the domestic cricket structure has been overhauled with only six provincial teams playing first-class cricket compared to around 16 regional and departmental teams in the past.

Link: https://www.hindustantimes.com/cric...ket-structure-imran-khan-101613318720741.html

 

[JaDed]

We need talent statistics too from now on, hopefully IK can explain to us how is it measured so every country can be assigned a number.

 

[Chrish]

Their batsmen will always struggle against moving ball in England, NZ and to certain extent SA..

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

India becoming a top team in world due to improvement in cricket structure: Imran Khan

Imran said Pakistan had always been a good team but could not become a world-beating side because of the non-productive cricket structure.

PTI

PUBLISHED ON FEB 14, 2021 09:50 PM IST

Pakistan Prime Minister and former captain Imran Khan believes India is becoming a top team in the world after improving its basic cricket structure.

Imran said Pakistan had always been a good team but could not become a world-beating side because of the non-productive cricket structure.

"Look at India today, they are becoming a top team in the world because they improved their structure although we have more talent,” Imran said, talking to the media in Islamabad.

“It takes time for a structure to work and polish talent but I am confident our team will become world beaters,” he added.

The Prime Minister felt that with the provincial cricket structure in place now in the country, results will come through in two to three years' time.

Imran, who is also the patron-in-chief of the Pakistan Cricket Board and nominates the chairman, said due to his busy schedule he did not have much time for the game.

“Honestly speaking I am not able to spare time for cricket and have not even watched the matches but now that our basic cricket structure has been changed things will improve gradually,” he said.

Imran captained Pakistan to its only World Cup win in 1992 in Australia and is a highly respected and revered figure in the country for his captaincy and performances on a cricket field.

Soon after winning the elections in 2018 and forming the government, Imran brought in former ICC President Ehsan Mani to run Pakistan Cricket Board.

In the last two years, the domestic cricket structure has been overhauled with only six provincial teams playing first-class cricket compared to around 16 regional and departmental teams in the past.

Link: https://www.hindustantimes.com/cric...ket-structure-imran-khan-101613318720741.html

Sorry Imran but I don't think currently this statement is true. May have been true when you played e.g Wasim Waqar Miandad and Anwar.. But now, name me on one player who is more talented then Kohli/Sachin/Ashwin in Pakistan.

And talent and system takes you only so far, Rohit Sharma is a god level talent which everyone knows.
But Kohli is still far ahead of him in all formats just by pure determination and sheer hardwork.

I am really surprised at this peddling of Talent by Imran, who, himself transformed his batting and bowling with pure hard work.
Sachin/Wasim Akram/Brian Lara.. These guys are examples of Talent which can never be produced.
But through sheer hard work.. some level of Talent can become Rahul Dravid/Imran/Kallis.. even with some limitations.
if

 

[hitthestump]

We need talent statistics too from now on, hopefully IK can explain to us how is it measured so every country can be assigned a number.

He can't be too praiseful of India. He is a politician now.

 

[moghul]

Whatever improved system you create but if you put people like Misbah on the top, nothing going to work.

 

[Forward Defensive Push]

Can the PM of the country please stop discussing trivial cricket please? There are more important things to take care of..

 

[kukkad kamaal]

" Although we have more talent ". That's really cute from Imran Khan

 

[Yk313]

Can the PM of the country please stop discussing trivial cricket please? There are more important things to take care of..

Senate may be in the bag and protesting government workers have likely been dispersed.

From PM’s PoV, that’s a clear horizon and he can take time off and focus on frivolities such as cricket.

Let’s see what actually transpires.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Can the PM of the country please stop discussing trivial cricket please? There are more important things to take care of..

He is the patron of the cricket board. He said it himself he is not watching the games, but basically he is the one who made the change to end department cricket, and reduce the number of teams.

 

[Hitman]

I wouldn't be too sure of that.

How can anyone with a sane cricketing brain believe that Pakistan has more talent than India in current times?

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Still stuck in 80s

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

How can anyone with a sane cricketing brain believe that Pakistan has more talent than India in current times?

They will agree that India is the better team, but they will blame the system for the reason that the more naturally talented Pakistanis did not develop and come through.

Its obviously not true. But that's what a lot of people believe.

And people in Pakistan use the "bohat talent" line in everything, not just cricket. Pakistan has the most talented doctors, engineers, students, actors, etc.

Ultimately its a way of deflecting blame. Instead of the people being responsible for the state of the system, the system is responsible for the state of the people.

 

[Nov15]

Imran, who is also the patron-in-chief of the Pakistan Cricket Board and nominates the chairman, said due to his busy schedule he did not have much time for the game.

“Honestly speaking I am not able to spare time for cricket and have not even watched the matches but now that our basic cricket structure has been changed things will improve gradually,” he said.[/url]

Cute how Khan Sb pretends he has no time for cricket. Sacking Mickey Arthur, appointing Wasim Khan as CEO & Misbah as coach-chief selector, sacking Sarfaraz from Captaincy were all Imran Khan’s decisions. Just wait for PCT to perform better, Imran Khan will be claiming credit for everything that goes right.

Also, who can forget the unsolicited public advice to Sarfaraz on Twitter just a day before the Pak vs India WC2019 match. He had tweeted congratulations to India & Virat Kohli for becoming the first Asian team to win test series in Australia. He would’ve done it again had relations with India not nosedived.

 

[Mean&Green]

I have my pop corn ready waiting for mamoon to go off on this and write an essay. He’s probably already working on his thesis anyways it’s going to be hilarious can’t wait....

 

[Varun]

We need talent statistics too from now on, hopefully IK can explain to us how is it measured so every country can be assigned a number.

On a scale of 0 to 1 (Bohut):

Pakistan: Bohut
India: 0.573
Sri Lanka: 0.434
Australia: 0.311
England: 0.258

 

[burger_uno]

there is no need for anyone to get triggered by anything ik says, who it goes without saying, is one of the greatest cricketers to step on the cricketing field. moreover given the improvement in his game from where he started to where he ended, he does know something about what it takes to succeed. judging by yt clips from his early career, his ability with the ball was much lower than those of his contemporaries in foreign countries such as australia and england. in fact i would argue that he showed even less promise than a modern day pakistani cricketer like hassan ali much less a potential star like ssa. yet from this lowly starting point, ik made himself into a colossus of the game and one whose influence can still be seen nearly three decades after he retired. so he does know something about the sport and how to transition from ordinary mortal to an atg. he got into the team initially due to family connections, realised that he was not good enough and did whatever it took to get back. facing great aussie and west indian fast bowling without a helmet was not a job for faint-hearted and not something he needed to do to make a living.

now to his statement, there is nothing remotely controversial about his claim. given the bilateral record, difference in population size and quality of coaches and administrators among other factors, pak clearly has produced more talented players in the past in comparison to india. this may or may not be true going forward but validity of this claim, as it relates to most of past history, cannot be denied. in addition talent is not the monopoly of pak. i would argue given the small player base, s.a. teams of mid 90's or even zimbabwe team of that era was more talented than any team i have ever seen. it is also fairly obvious to me that when it comes to talent, nz is probably no1 nation in the world currently. they may not be a dominant team but what they are producing from a small pool is clearly remarkable.

i also think that pak is number one when it comes to wasting potential of talented players. this problem has become more acute given other boards have moved ahead while caliber of pakistani players has gone down in comparison to the past. obviously not having cricket at home was a huge factor. but things are changing for the better hopefully we start to see benefits in the near future.

 

[dildilpak]

IK - Pak has more talent than India.
Afridi - Its a myth that Pak mein talent bahut hai

Hate to point it out but Afridi makes actually more sense than IK. Clearly IK has not followed cricket for a while, else he would not have come up with this stale line.

 

[Mamoon]

[MENTION=149705]Mean&Green[/MENTION]

You have to feel sorry for Imran and pity how out of touch he is.

Imran has been away from the game for almost 30 years now. He has barely followed the game. He doesn’t have the time for it anymore because of his political commitments.

I bet he cannot name more than 3-4 current players of Pakistan, or even more then 10 active cricketers among other countries. He has no interest anymore.

You could tell from his opinions as well. Back in 2015, he was suggesting that Younis should bat at 3 in the World Cup.

Now, only two kind of people would have made that suggestion: those who are not in touch with modern cricket are unaware of Younis’ performances in ODIs and those who know nothing about cricket.

But Imran obviously knows helluva lot of about the game. After all, he is among the all-time great players and captains.

So why did he suggest Younis? He did so because the last time he watched cricket with some attention was in 2006 when India toured Pakistan and he was hired by Ten Sports for the Straight Drive show (hosted by Manjrekar) during the Test series.

Younis plundered big hundreds at number 3 and he was very impressed with his batting. That memory stuck in his head and 9 years later, he was still adamant that Younis was the right man to bat at 3 in ODIs because he had no clue whatsoever about his pathetic performances in ODI cricket.

Imran is mentally still living in the 70s and 80s when Pakistan produced more gifted players than India. When we found the likes of Wasim, Waqar and Imran himself, India did not really have an answer.

They had Gavaskar and Kapil but no Indian fast bowler had the ability that Imran, Wasim and Waqar possessed.

But you fast forward to 2020s and everyone who still thinks that Pakistan “has more talent” than India is either utterly delusional or completely out of touch with the game.

Imran only knows Kohli from this Indian team because he is the biggest star in the game today and very popular in Pakistan, and he is not aware of talents like Ashwin, Bumrah, Rohit, Gill, Pant, Jadeja, KL Rahul, Pujara etc. and neither is he aware of the fact that the Indian U19 team has been butchering Pakistan U19 for years.

This “talent bohat hai” mantra means nothing in modern cricket. The game has become to professional.

Talent alone means nothing because it is all about player development and professionalism, and Pakistan is zero in these departments.

Every country that plays a particular sport with 65+ years of history and heritage has “talent” for it. It is not some sort of achievement.

France has the most “talent” in football today, but if they convert their football academies into cricket academies, 60-70 years down the line they will also start producing “talent” for cricket.

“Talent” cannot be measured and quantified. You can only see the characteristics and qualities of the players coming through.

Talent is now just a buzzword in cricket. It is not about talent, it is about skill and mentality.

The mental resilience to cope with the pressure of international cricket and have the capacity to think what shot to play and what delivery to bowl in the heat of the moment is called mentality, and the capacity to execute that shot and that delivery is called skill.

When you combine those two qualities, you get “talent”.

Imran is a sensible person when it comes to cricket. The problem is that is out of touch with reality. I bet if he spends one year following the game closely and learns about the players playing for Pakistan and India and the ones coming through the ranks, he will drop his stale “talent bohat hai” stories and realize that the he is out of touch.

 

[Energy]

Still can't get over the fact that Imran Khan vouched for Yasir' inclusion in the World Cup squad because Mushtaq was part of the 92' team. No form, no stats, no past record - straight into the team on the basis of one's desire.

What sort of a psycho board is the PCB?

Anyway, you always need something to feed the uneducated masses so these sort of buzzwords like talent, product, infrastructure is a gold trick. It is played by the board, the coaches, the players, and even the PM.

 

[Savak]

Lol this is the hallmark of a great leader, when he makes his troops constantly believe that they are better than they already are, make them believe that they are better than the opposition when they are not, this shift in mentality is why above avg players are compelled to punch above their weight.

There is a reason why Pakistan under Iks captaincy punched above their weight and

Started to compete in England

Played very competitively against the best side in the world WI both home and in their backyard

Beat India in India ie test series and nehru cup

Beat NZ in NZ

Won the 1992 WC

Had he done a Mamoon ie constantly yap about our players not being good enough, he wouldn't have been able to achieve all this with the above avg team he had.

Please don't get into he had the services of the great Wasim and Waqar. There was no Wasim on the 1982-83 England, India series and Wasim was not the bowler he became later in 1987.

Similarly Waqar was absent in the 1992 WC. Instead of making fun of Iks apparently delusional statements, try to understand the deeper psychology behind what he is trying to do

 

[sam_ahm]

There are very few competitive teams that we have now, which is another reason why India has been doing exceptionally well. If you compare these players with the likes of Sachin, Rahul, VVS, Ganguly, Sehwag, If we go a little back then Azhar, Kumble Srinath then these players are probably not as good yet producing better results.

And I'm not saying this because of nostalgia

Any fan of this generation will ask then why didnt those set of players win so often?

Its because other teams were more powerful than india.. every team had really hungry batsmen .. and very potent bowlers .. and Indian bowlers were unable to bowl them out and despite great bowling attack of pakistan Australia South Africa England WI and Sri lanka; Indian batsman batted long to draw many matches

This current team is reaping benefits of mediocre opponents .. RSA, WI, SLN, PAK have become mediocre sides, Australia are no where near the side they were in late 90s and 00s.. Zimbabwe have been reduced to associate level.

Only England and New Zealand have improved from what they were and then it is not like ENG and NZL were mediocre back then, they still had players who were competitive like Fleming, Astle, Cairns, etc..

If these X1 of India are put up ,against any opponent of 99 00s they wont be able to draw any match overseas, at home India used to win then and will still win now.

Just my opinion, people will always have recency bias and say I'm stupid, but this is coming from me who has always been a big fan of Indian cricket, be it the past or present, whether we win or lose.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

There are very few competitive teams that we have now, which is another reason why India has been doing exceptionally well. If you compare these players with the likes of Sachin, Rahul, VVS, Ganguly, Sehwag, If we go a little back then Azhar, Kumble Srinath then these players are probably not as good yet producing better results.

And I'm not saying this because of nostalgia

Any fan of this generation will ask then why didnt those set of players win so often?

Its because other teams were more powerful than india.. every team had really hungry batsmen .. and very potent bowlers .. and Indian bowlers were unable to bowl them out and despite great bowling attack of pakistan Australia South Africa England WI and Sri lanka; Indian batsman batted long to draw many matches

This current team is reaping benefits of mediocre opponents .. RSA, WI, SLN, PAK have become mediocre sides, Australia are no where near the side they were in late 90s and 00s.. Zimbabwe have been reduced to associate level.

Only England and New Zealand have improved from what they were and then it is not like ENG and NZL were mediocre back then, they still had players who were competitive like Fleming, Astle, Cairns, etc..

If these X1 of India are put up ,against any opponent of 99 00s they wont be able to draw any match overseas, at home India used to win then and will still win now.

Just my opinion, people will always have recency bias and say I'm stupid, but this is coming from me who has always been a big fan of Indian cricket, be it the past or present, whether we win or lose.

You can pump up someone to roar like a Tiger.. but he needs to have ability. Inzamam, Anwar, Wasim, Waqar, Mushtaq had Talent, Skills and Ability.
The current lads coming into the team, ain't that good.

 

[FastBowlingAllrounder]

There are very few competitive teams that we have now, which is another reason why India has been doing exceptionally well. If you compare these players with the likes of Sachin, Rahul, VVS, Ganguly, Sehwag, If we go a little back then Azhar, Kumble Srinath then these players are probably not as good yet producing better results.

And I'm not saying this because of nostalgia

Any fan of this generation will ask then why didnt those set of players win so often?

Its because other teams were more powerful than india.. every team had really hungry batsmen .. and very potent bowlers .. and Indian bowlers were unable to bowl them out and despite great bowling attack of pakistan Australia South Africa England WI and Sri lanka; Indian batsman batted long to draw many matches

This current team is reaping benefits of mediocre opponents .. RSA, WI, SLN, PAK have become mediocre sides, Australia are no where near the side they were in late 90s and 00s.. Zimbabwe have been reduced to associate level.

Only England and New Zealand have improved from what they were and then it is not like ENG and NZL were mediocre back then, they still had players who were competitive like Fleming, Astle, Cairns, etc..

If these X1 of India are put up ,against any opponent of 99 00s they wont be able to draw any match overseas, at home India used to win then and will still win now.

Just my opinion, people will always have recency bias and say I'm stupid, but this is coming from me who has always been a big fan of Indian cricket, be it the past or present, whether we win or lose.

You make a good point - and with cricket's popularity falling (barring T20 leagues, which are a different game), the youth in many countries may not be as cricket crazy as they used to be, barring the subcontinent. India made a system and produced great teams and is taking advantage of the decline in world cricket as you mentioned while Pakistan lagged behind.

 

[Pakhs]

Whose got more talent is debatable but nothing wrong with his statement India has improved their cricketing structure

 

[FastBowlingAllrounder]

You can pump up someone to roar like a Tiger.. but he needs to have ability. Inzamam, Anwar, Wasim, Waqar, Mushtaq had Talent, Skills and Ability.
The current lads coming into the team, ain't that good.

The reason they aren't that good is because of their lack of drive and discipline. It's all about making the money and becoming a social media superstar. The players back then weren't significantly genetically superior or anything which gave them the talent, they were just more disciplined.

Nowadays, the players have no regard for fitness and are more concerned with their next photoshoot and PSL paycheck than improving their skills or chasing success.

 

[Mamoon]

Lol this is the hallmark of a great leader, when he makes his troops constantly believe that they are better than they already are, make them believe that they are better than the opposition when they are not, this shift in mentality is why above avg players are compelled to punch above their weight.

There is a reason why Pakistan under Iks captaincy punched above their weight and

Started to compete in England

Played very competitively against the best side in the world WI both home and in their backyard

Beat India in India ie test series and nehru cup

Beat NZ in NZ

Won the 1992 WC

Had he done a Mamoon ie constantly yap about our players not being good enough, he wouldn't have been able to achieve all this with the above avg team he had.

Please don't get into he had the services of the great Wasim and Waqar. There was no Wasim on the 1982-83 England, India series and Wasim was not the bowler he became later in 1987.

Similarly Waqar was absent in the 1992 WC. Instead of making fun of Iks apparently delusional statements, try to understand the deeper psychology behind what he is trying to do

You can only punch above your weight if you have the ability to punch above your weight.

Self-believe and motivation alone cannot turn an average cricketer into a champion.

Imran had himself, Wasim, Waqar (his success was circumstantial but he was a genius at what he did), Inzamam etc. who are the most gifted players Pakistan has ever produced.

Many average players fail to develop under Imran as well.

Imran had himself even when he did not have Wasim and Waqar, and he had Miandad when he did not have Inzamam.

A less player could not have done what Inzamam did in the 1992 semifinal and what Wasim did in the 1992 final or what Imran did against India in 1982.

Motivation and leadership complement ability, they do not substitute it. Give Shan Masood to Imran Khan and he will not become Saeed Anwar.

 

[Thunderbolt14]

You can pump up someone to roar like a Tiger.. but he needs to have ability. Inzamam, Anwar, Wasim, Waqar, Mushtaq had Talent, Skills and Ability.
The current lads coming into the team, ain't that good.

I don’t think you read [MENTION=2501]Savak[/MENTION]’s post. All these guys you mentioned, they’re not the ones that Imran led for 10 years. They came at the toe end of his career.

 

[Pacy with wisdom]

Lol this is the hallmark of a great leader, when he makes his troops constantly believe that they are better than they already are, make them believe that they are better than the opposition when they are not, this shift in mentality is why above avg players are compelled to punch above their weight.

There is a reason why Pakistan under Iks captaincy punched above their weight and

Started to compete in England

Played very competitively against the best side in the world WI both home and in their backyard

Beat India in India ie test series and nehru cup

Beat NZ in NZ

Won the 1992 WC

Had he done a Mamoon ie constantly yap about our players not being good enough, he wouldn't have been able to achieve all this with the above avg team he had.

Please don't get into he had the services of the great Wasim and Waqar. There was no Wasim on the 1982-83 England, India series and Wasim was not the bowler he became later in 1987.

Similarly Waqar was absent in the 1992 WC. Instead of making fun of Iks apparently delusional statements, try to understand the deeper psychology behind what he is trying to do

Finally someone who understands. All the others here including the usual suspects are only busy point-scoring with their 10 metre vision.

 

[Mamoon]

I don’t think you read [MENTION=2501]Savak[/MENTION]’s post. All these guys you mentioned, they’re not the ones that Imran led for 10 years. They came at the toe end of his career.

But Imran had himself, a remarkably great and talented cricket.

Imagine if Imran was a Faheem Ashraf or an Anwar Ali or a Bhatti, he would never have become the giant he became no matter how hard he worked.

You cannot buy talent and no amount of hard work will make you an elite sportsman if you do not have the natural ability.

Hard work complements natural ability, it can never substitute it.

 

[burger_uno]

imran khan's captaincy style was to lead by example as he showed by promoting himself in the b/o during the 93 world cup. he was also anti-misbah i.e. ik was all attack all the time. this is why he bought qadir out from the doldrums after he had been shunted aside because leg-spinners were thought to be very expensive. ik in general preferred players who helped the team to play aggressively and it was miandad who often kept imran under check. apparently it was miandad who advised on critical selection for 87 banglaore test match. maindad also handled the nuts and bolts duties on the field. for my money, miandad is shrewdest cricketing mind produced by pakistan. and the toughest as well who was most hated by opposition. in fact just today, his name came up during india/england test match when gavasker, talking about an indian keeper, said that the keeper was the only player who was able to get under miandad's skin. this to me is the ultimate compliment. i think miandad's captaincy record is underrated because he led the team in the absence of its biggest star.

even in his time, imran khan made some big selection blunders. mansoor akhtar was one of his blue-eyed boys who hung around for a decade despite avg of 25. he was hated by rest of the team but managed to carve a career because reportedly, he was ik's personal bagman. he went out of the team when ik skipped the series. another one of ik's mistake was to disregard the claim of shoaib mohammed. some said that this was due to a feud between two of pakistan's most important cricketing dynasties. amir sohail mentioned on his channel that shoaib in domestic was a completely different player than he was in intl setup because of insecurity he felt when he was in the team. i know for a fact that the next generation of players from the family did not persue cricket because they felt they would not get a fair chance.

imran khan certainly got most things right but he has not infallible by any means even during his cricketing days. as for mansoor akhtar, last i heard, he was arrested for trying to get involved in betting.

 

[Mamoon]

The problem with Pakistani fans is that they are delusional. This whole cornered tiger mentality has ruined Pakistan cricket.

Success in cricket is about building a strong team and then managing those great players to ensure that they perform to an optimum level.

None of this cornered tigers dramaybaazi can produce consistency and long-term results.

Success is a process. Kapil produced a bigger cornered tigers moment than Imran Khan in 1983 but India recognized that it was not a sustainable model.

We heard no stories of “talent bohat hai” baloney and cornered tigers mentality and unpredictability drama. They focused on becoming a professional and disciplined and when you do that results will follow.

Pakistan is the most cricket ignorant nation in the world and it does not know how to become a professional and disciplined cricket team.

Imran managed that at an individual level but you cannot teach that to others. As soon as he retired, Pakistan dressing room lost all discipline. None of those traits were instilled in them for the long run.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

I don’t think you read [MENTION=2501]Savak[/MENTION]’s post. All these guys you mentioned, they’re not the ones that Imran led for 10 years. They came at the toe end of his career.

But his biggest achievement, the 1992 WC was with them.
Imran himself was talented who further maximised his output.

 

[cricket4all]

Don’t understand why Imran has worked every one up? It’s his opinion only, which he has a right to whether you believe it’s correct or not. His words count to get so many people upset.

What about the positives he has said about Indian cricket? Why just pick one negative and ignore the rest?

 

[Pakhs]

What he is saying is common sense but they have also become a top side due to huge population and craze for only one sport. It was inevitable at some point they will dominate. TBH the have not reached top yet as they are neither No1 ranked test team currently or ODI champions.

 

[Bewal Express]

As the system evolves, it will get better. IK has done his job, its upto the PCB and the stakeholders to make it work.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

He can't be too praiseful of India. He is a politician now.

He is being praiseful of India, he's praising their cricket structure. It's not something new, he's been shouting about Pakistan's need to follow India's example for decades now.

 

[hitthestump]

He is being praiseful of India, he's praising their cricket structure. It's not something new, he's been shouting about Pakistan's need to follow India's example for decades now.

But with a caveat that he believes Pakistan to be 'more talented'. To me it's an extremely subtle indication towards Pakistanis having genetic and physical superiority over Indians, because there's no other measure of cricketing talent where Pakistan are even close to India right now.

 

[BreadPakoda]

What he is saying is common sense but they have also become a top side due to huge population and craze for only one sport. It was inevitable at some point they will dominate. TBH the have not reached top yet as they are neither No1 ranked test team currently or ODI champions.

Going by that logic Pakistan should be second best. Yet they’ve been languishing at 6-7 out of about 10 serious teams.

 

[Mamoon]

Savak and his cheerleaders conveniently forgetting that Imran still had himself, and he himself was one of the greatest and most talented cricketers to have ever lived.

Propaganda and delusion sells like hot cakes in Pakistan.

 

[Mamoon]

Now wait for the grand myth - “Imran was not talented, he was just hard working”.

Yeah no.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but Imran was not only hard working but extremely talented as well.

It was obvious right from the time when he was 10-11 and playing in Aitchison school Lahore that he was going to be a great cricketer.

And you have to be extremely talented to be able to change your bowling action and go from a dibbly-dobbler to a genuine fast bowler.

A bowler with little talent cannot pull off what Imran did no matter how hard he works.

Hard work complements talent. It doesn’t substitute it.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Going by that logic Pakistan should be second best. Yet they’ve been languishing at 6-7 out of about 10 serious teams.

Lol let Pakistan play at their real home for next 3-4 years first. It is easy to ignore this but look at their recent series against South Africa for an example and yeah don't forget to look at their upcoming schedule. They will be in Top 4.

 

[Pakhs]

Going by that logic Pakistan should be second best. Yet they’ve been languishing at 6-7 out of about 10 serious teams.

So there was a time India was languishing too? But Pakistan is 6 times smaller than India so second on the list can be a bit hit a miss but the first on the list should be obvious the country with a population of over a billion compare to 6/7 billion on earth all together. Infact countries like India should not be bothering to just compete in cricket or staying up that should be given actually they should be in the top 2/3 olympic medalists every time its held.

Pakistan thanks to its big population has been number 1 team not long ago both in test and twos and also won champions trophy all this despite having one of the poorest domestic set up.

 

[BreadPakoda]

So there was a time India was languishing too? But Pakistan is 6 times smaller than India so second on the list can be a bit hit a miss but the first on the list should be obvious the country with a population of over a billion compare to 6/7 billion on earth all together. Infact countries like India should not be bothering to just compete in cricket or staying up that should be given actually they should be in the top 2/3 olympic medalists every time its held.

Pakistan thanks to its big population has been number 1 team not long ago both in test and twos and also won champions trophy all this despite having one of the poorest domestic set up.

Agree that Pakistan's population is less than India's but its almost 5 times West Indies' population. Yet, Pakistan has remained on the top of test rankings for only 3 weeks in their test history.

 

[RajBan]

[MENTION=149705]Mean&Green[/MENTION]

You have to feel sorry for Imran and pity how out of touch he is.

Imran has been away from the game for almost 30 years now. He has barely followed the game. He doesn’t have the time for it anymore because of his political commitments.

I bet he cannot name more than 3-4 current players of Pakistan, or even more then 10 active cricketers among other countries. He has no interest anymore.

You could tell from his opinions as well. Back in 2015, he was suggesting that Younis should bat at 3 in the World Cup.

Now, only two kind of people would have made that suggestion: those who are not in touch with modern cricket are unaware of Younis’ performances in ODIs and those who know nothing about cricket.

But Imran obviously knows helluva lot of about the game. After all, he is among the all-time great players and captains.

So why did he suggest Younis? He did so because the last time he watched cricket with some attention was in 2006 when India toured Pakistan and he was hired by Ten Sports for the Straight Drive show (hosted by Manjrekar) during the Test series.

Younis plundered big hundreds at number 3 and he was very impressed with his batting. That memory stuck in his head and 9 years later, he was still adamant that Younis was the right man to bat at 3 in ODIs because he had no clue whatsoever about his pathetic performances in ODI cricket.

Imran is mentally still living in the 70s and 80s when Pakistan produced more gifted players than India. When we found the likes of Wasim, Waqar and Imran himself, India did not really have an answer.

They had Gavaskar and Kapil but no Indian fast bowler had the ability that Imran, Wasim and Waqar possessed.

But you fast forward to 2020s and everyone who still thinks that Pakistan “has more talent” than India is either utterly delusional or completely out of touch with the game.

Imran only knows Kohli from this Indian team because he is the biggest star in the game today and very popular in Pakistan, and he is not aware of talents like Ashwin, Bumrah, Rohit, Gill, Pant, Jadeja, KL Rahul, Pujara etc. and neither is he aware of the fact that the Indian U19 team has been butchering Pakistan U19 for years.

This “talent bohat hai” mantra means nothing in modern cricket. The game has become to professional.

Talent alone means nothing because it is all about player development and professionalism, and Pakistan is zero in these departments.

Every country that plays a particular sport with 65+ years of history and heritage has “talent” for it. It is not some sort of achievement.

France has the most “talent” in football today, but if they convert their football academies into cricket academies, 60-70 years down the line they will also start producing “talent” for cricket.

“Talent” cannot be measured and quantified. You can only see the characteristics and qualities of the players coming through.

Talent is now just a buzzword in cricket. It is not about talent, it is about skill and mentality.

The mental resilience to cope with the pressure of international cricket and have the capacity to think what shot to play and what delivery to bowl in the heat of the moment is called mentality, and the capacity to execute that shot and that delivery is called skill.

When you combine those two qualities, you get “talent”.

Imran is a sensible person when it comes to cricket. The problem is that is out of touch with reality. I bet if he spends one year following the game closely and learns about the players playing for Pakistan and India and the ones coming through the ranks, he will drop his stale “talent bohat hai” stories and realize that the he is out of touch.

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] - Top post on how talent is misconstrued by many experts let alone the general public. This is not just with respect to cricket but equally true for every walk of life.

 

[aqeelPK]

I know its hard to digest but the truth is that Afghanistan has more talent than Pakistan these days.

 

[Mamoon]

I know its hard to digest but the truth is that Afghanistan has more talent than Pakistan these days.

Totally agree. Rashid Khan and Mujeeb are miles better than any Limited Overs spinner in Pakistan.

 

[Napa]

Agree that Pakistan's population is less than India's but its almost 5 times West Indies' population. Yet, Pakistan has remained on the top of test rankings for only 3 weeks in their test history.

While it is true that the total population of the Caribbeans is 40 million the population of the cricket playing WI is probably less than 10 million.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_West_Indies

 

[Bigboii]

Talk about priorities from Ertuğrul reruns to fixing PCT... Immu is here

 

[Kroll]

Agree that Pakistan's population is less than India's but its almost 5 times West Indies' population. Yet, Pakistan has remained on the top of test rankings for only 3 weeks in their test history.

While it is true that the total population of the Caribbeans is 40 million the population of the cricket playing WI is probably less than 10 million.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_West_Indies

Money is the game changer here. India now has the financial clout to go with its overflowing population.

 

[HappyWarsFan]

Imran will help our cricket and is making the right steps.

 

[Kroll]

Immy's right. There's never been anyone more talented from the subcontinent than Umar Akmal.

 

[Savak]

Imran Khan first step which he calls the most difficult decision of his career was dropping Majid Khan. In 1982 he drew a test series with a bowling attack of Tahir Naqqash, Ehtisham u Din, Siqander Bakht i.e. hardly world beaters. Mudassar Nazar was regarded as an ordinary cricketer, even now he is hardly recognized as a legend but Imran Khan used him optimately to get results with bat and ball. It was IK who started to use Abdul Qadir as an aggressive weapon in test cricket.

Wasim Akram only really started to blossom and become Pakistan's main premier bowler from 1988 onwards, before that it was Imran who was Pakistan's best and most consistent bowler. Imran before that was making use of Mudassar Nazar, Abdul Qadir, Saleem Jaffar, Iqbal Qasim, Tauseef Ahmed, Mansoor Akhtar e.t.c. With these players upto 1987, Pakistan drew 1-1 in England in 1982, defeated India in Pakistan in 1982, Defeated Australia in Pakistan in 1982, Pakistan then drew 1-1 against the WI at home, beat India 1-0 in 1987, Beat England 1-0 in 1987, reached the quarter finals of the 1987 WC

Even the 1988 NZ tour win didn't involve Wasim, Waqar, Aqib. In the 1989 Nehru Cup, Wasim apart from that final six, hardly played much of a role. Wasim actually became world class from 1989 onwards and Waqar started delivering from 1990 onwards and the 1992 WC win, Waqar was absent and Wasim only really came good in 2 games i.e. that NZ match and the final.

Bottomline Imran for the most part of his career achieved extra ordinary results with very avg cricketers. You give these same cricketers to the likes of Javed Miandad, Asif Iqbal, Zaheer Abbas and co and i guarantee you they would not have achieved the same kind of results.

 

[Bewal Express]

Savak and his cheerleaders conveniently forgetting that Imran still had himself, and he himself was one of the greatest and most talented cricketers to have ever lived.

Propaganda and delusion sells like hot cakes in Pakistan.

He wasn't. IK until late 70s was average/good bowler but never considered amongst the elite, his stats reflected that. His statistics went Northwards after he totally changed his action. Few, if any bowlers have ever managed it successfully. What seems so inevitable now, wasn't the case back in the 70s.

 

[Thunderbolt14]

But his biggest achievement, the 1992 WC was with them.
Imran himself was talented who further maximised his output.

You’re shifting the discussion.

He maximized the output of a below par team for 10 years into a world beater, then finally got hold of some good talents who he handpicked himself and began crafting around 1989-1990.

In 1992, just one of his many achievements, it was a ridiculously young team (both in age and experience) with Wasim, Aaqib, Inzi, Mushy, Rameez, Moin, Ijaz, Aamer all playing the world cup final.

 

[Mean&Green]

[MENTION=149705]Mean&Green[/MENTION]

You have to feel sorry for Imran and pity how out of touch he is.

Imran has been away from the game for almost 30 years now. He has barely followed the game. He doesn’t have the time for it anymore because of his political commitments.

I bet he cannot name more than 3-4 current players of Pakistan, or even more then 10 active cricketers among other countries. He has no interest anymore.

You could tell from his opinions as well. Back in 2015, he was suggesting that Younis should bat at 3 in the World Cup.

Now, only two kind of people would have made that suggestion: those who are not in touch with modern cricket are unaware of Younis’ performances in ODIs and those who know nothing about cricket.

But Imran obviously knows helluva lot of about the game. After all, he is among the all-time great players and captains.

So why did he suggest Younis? He did so because the last time he watched cricket with some attention was in 2006 when India toured Pakistan and he was hired by Ten Sports for the Straight Drive show (hosted by Manjrekar) during the Test series.

Younis plundered big hundreds at number 3 and he was very impressed with his batting. That memory stuck in his head and 9 years later, he was still adamant that Younis was the right man to bat at 3 in ODIs because he had no clue whatsoever about his pathetic performances in ODI cricket.

Imran is mentally still living in the 70s and 80s when Pakistan produced more gifted players than India. When we found the likes of Wasim, Waqar and Imran himself, India did not really have an answer.

They had Gavaskar and Kapil but no Indian fast bowler had the ability that Imran, Wasim and Waqar possessed.

But you fast forward to 2020s and everyone who still thinks that Pakistan “has more talent” than India is either utterly delusional or completely out of touch with the game.

Imran only knows Kohli from this Indian team because he is the biggest star in the game today and very popular in Pakistan, and he is not aware of talents like Ashwin, Bumrah, Rohit, Gill, Pant, Jadeja, KL Rahul, Pujara etc. and neither is he aware of the fact that the Indian U19 team has been butchering Pakistan U19 for years.

This “talent bohat hai” mantra means nothing in modern cricket. The game has become to professional.

Talent alone means nothing because it is all about player development and professionalism, and Pakistan is zero in these departments.

Every country that plays a particular sport with 65+ years of history and heritage has “talent” for it. It is not some sort of achievement.

France has the most “talent” in football today, but if they convert their football academies into cricket academies, 60-70 years down the line they will also start producing “talent” for cricket.

“Talent” cannot be measured and quantified. You can only see the characteristics and qualities of the players coming through.

Talent is now just a buzzword in cricket. It is not about talent, it is about skill and mentality.

The mental resilience to cope with the pressure of international cricket and have the capacity to think what shot to play and what delivery to bowl in the heat of the moment is called mentality, and the capacity to execute that shot and that delivery is called skill.

When you combine those two qualities, you get “talent”.

Imran is a sensible person when it comes to cricket. The problem is that is out of touch with reality. I bet if he spends one year following the game closely and learns about the players playing for Pakistan and India and the ones coming through the ranks, he will drop his stale “talent bohat hai” stories and realize that the he is out of touch.

Wow I’m actually impressed couldn’t disagree to a single word to be honest. But I was expecting more of a he’s out of touch with cricket as he’s out of touch with politics despite being the PM which would be true as well to a certain extent.

 

[Savak]

I know its hard to digest but the truth is that Afghanistan has more talent than Pakistan these days.

Beating Bangladesh while commendable for a country like Afghanistan should not be heralded as an extraordinary achievement

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

You’re shifting the discussion.

He maximized the output of a below par team for 10 years into a world beater, then finally got hold of some good talents who he handpicked himself and began crafting around 1989-1990.

In 1992, just one of his many achievements, it was a ridiculously young team (both in age and experience) with Wasim, Aaqib, Inzi, Mushy, Rameez, Moin, Ijaz, Aamer all playing the world cup final.

Okay.. but he had talented individuals at his disposal which he could transform into a better unit.
I use the world talent very carefully here. I don't see any good upcoming talent from PK cricket now.
All these talks for system etc are fine, but there has to be some mentally resilient, and talented/brilliant individuals also coming in. So, Sorry, The talent pipeline is dried up a bit and needs rejuvenation.

 

[Mamoon]

He wasn't. IK until late 70s was average/good bowler but never considered amongst the elite, his stats reflected that. His statistics went Northwards after he totally changed his action. Few, if any bowlers have ever managed it successfully. What seems so inevitable now, wasn't the case back in the 70s.

Again, it is a myth.

Imran was not an average/good bowler until late 70’s because he did not have the talent or the ability.

He was average/good due to several factors such as he did not work very hard on his bowling at that point, he was more focused on his batting even though he wasn’t natural at it, he didn’t get good career advice at that point etc.

However, once he focused on becoming a fast bowler, he realized his true potential because he had immense talent for fast bowling, and that talent was harnessed with the hard work that he did during his time in the UK.

You cannot change your bowling action completely and go from a dibbly-dobbler to one of the all time great fast bowlers unless you are super talented.

Imran is one of the most talented bowlers to have ever played the game, and he would have had even more success at a younger age had he realized his potential earlier.

 

[Mamoon]

Imran Khan first step which he calls the most difficult decision of his career was dropping Majid Khan. In 1982 he drew a test series with a bowling attack of Tahir Naqqash, Ehtisham u Din, Siqander Bakht i.e. hardly world beaters. Mudassar Nazar was regarded as an ordinary cricketer, even now he is hardly recognized as a legend but Imran Khan used him optimately to get results with bat and ball. It was IK who started to use Abdul Qadir as an aggressive weapon in test cricket.

Wasim Akram only really started to blossom and become Pakistan's main premier bowler from 1988 onwards, before that it was Imran who was Pakistan's best and most consistent bowler. Imran before that was making use of Mudassar Nazar, Abdul Qadir, Saleem Jaffar, Iqbal Qasim, Tauseef Ahmed, Mansoor Akhtar e.t.c. With these players upto 1987, Pakistan drew 1-1 in England in 1982, defeated India in Pakistan in 1982, Defeated Australia in Pakistan in 1982, Pakistan then drew 1-1 against the WI at home, beat India 1-0 in 1987, Beat England 1-0 in 1987, reached the quarter finals of the 1987 WC

Even the 1988 NZ tour win didn't involve Wasim, Waqar, Aqib. In the 1989 Nehru Cup, Wasim apart from that final six, hardly played much of a role. Wasim actually became world class from 1989 onwards and Waqar started delivering from 1990 onwards and the 1992 WC win, Waqar was absent and Wasim only really came good in 2 games i.e. that NZ match and the final.

Bottomline Imran for the most part of his career achieved extra ordinary results with very avg cricketers. You give these same cricketers to the likes of Javed Miandad, Asif Iqbal, Zaheer Abbas and co and i guarantee you they would not have achieved the same kind of results.

It also helped when Imran himself was an extraordinary cricketer. The captain also counts as a player himself.

He drew the series in 1982 not because he inspired Naqqash and Sikander Bakht (who both failed miserably) but because he himself was at the peak of his bowling prowess and took 40 wickets at an average of 13.

If Imran himself was not good enough as a bowler and would have bowled like the other Pakistani bowlers, would he have drawn the series? No. So what use would his leadership have been?

Kohli’s India wouldn’t be so successful if Kohli was a poor batsman.

And Miandad won as many Tests as Imran in less no of matches. Now before people make the he played weak teams excuse, Imran also has the honor of losing a Test to the weakest team of the 1980s, i.e. Sri Lanka.

Your posts in this thread are full of exaggerations, myths and romanticism that has ruined Pakistan cricket and prevented it from becoming a professional outfit.

Pakistani fans and Pakistan cricket needs to move on from these stories of grand leadership and motivation and cornered tigers, otherwise it will live continue to live in the past.

Success comes with quality players and a captain who can lead them, not with average players and motivational speeches.

 

[Savak]

Imagine Misbah in charge of the 1992 WC squad in that Australia game where we were one match away from elimination, he would have been making excuses for an early exit just before the game and would have booked flight tickets in advance.

If Misbah was the captain of the 1989 tournament in Nehru, he would have messed up that run chase against the WI in the final.

Ian Chappell had loads of respect for IK, lol the first time he saw Misbah in action, he called a spade a spade i.e. the most atrocious and clueless captaincy he had ever seen in Australian soil.

 

[Thunderbolt14]

Okay.. but he had talented individuals at his disposal which he could transform into a better unit.
I use the world talent very carefully here. I don't see any good upcoming talent from PK cricket now.
All these talks for system etc are fine, but there has to be some mentally resilient, and talented/brilliant individuals also coming in. So, Sorry, The talent pipeline is dried up a bit and needs rejuvenation.

I don’t like this “talent” argument. The phrase “x country has a lot of talent” just means that country has a lot of youngsters playing the game at a decent skill level. Freaks of nature who are naturally and genetically more talented will come through any system (very rarely though) but the systems that nurture them better at early stages will develop them better. Then, because of the system, you’ll sit back and go “oh that country has a lot of talent coming through.”

For this reason, India will always be the number 1 country in terms of talent all round, and especially batting talent (because of the sheer number of people who bat at a decent skill level across schools, clubs, departments, and universities, the statistical probability of identifying 6 batsmen good enough to be world beaters is much higher than, say, Pakistan where we have no such system).

In this regard, Pakistan is bankrupt in terms of batting talent because of a lack of developmental processes. Someone like Haider Ali, you look at him and see a lot of natural ability in timing the ball, strokeplay, and temperament. You put him in the Indian system starting at the age of 13 and I reckon he would be at a similar level to Shubman Gill or Prithvi Shaw, but the truth is he is far behind as a talent right now.

I’m not speculating about the careers these people will end up having, but just saying that it all depends on how you define talent. If you define talent as the actual skill (Mamoon’s definition), that requires professionalism and a system which Pakistan does not have (so not much talent). If you define talent in terms of the number of 6”5’ people in the country who have strong shoulders and quick legs, then Pakistan has just as much talent as the statistical probability on demographics might suggest.

We are a big country population wise (sixth biggest in the world) and it is statistically unlikely that there are not random people walking the streets who have all the natural ingredients needed to bat well (core coordination, good hand-eye movements, stable base, aptitude for timing the ball) but they never play cricket in their lives. Or if they do play cricket, they have bad habits relating to tulla tape ball cricket instilled in them from a young age. Etc etc.

This is why Pakistan has always produced more fast bowlers than batsmen — bowling fast does not require a systematic infrastructure the way batting does. You need to practice batting against a hard ball from a young age, play in proper grounds with actual fielders instead of the street breaking windows with the ball, and receive proper technical advice.

Now, the definition you are using of talent, it’s different to Mamoon’s definition. You’re talking about raw talent that did not require a system to develop, people like Wasim Akram, Waqar Younis, Saeed Anwar, and Inzamam ul Haq who all were some of the most naturally gifted cricketers of all time. These guys are the exceptions, equivalent to finding an 8” tall guy and asking him to play basketball.

We cannot just expect this to happen out of the blue. Our raw talent has certainly dried up in the sense that we are not getting Wasim Akram level bowlers coming through anymore. But then again, no country in the world has a single Wasim Akram bowler coming through right now.

For the most part, we must lower the bar one notch in our expectations for raw talent — as a country, Pakistan has just as much talent as any other country and more than most actually, except for the Big 3, New Zealand, and South Africa.

Note that if Pakistan had a population the size of New Zealand, we would be a proper Bangladesh-level minnow team because we simply don’t have a sports culture or system to develop cricketers. Our 200 million population keeps us afloat, as it continues to produce just enough cricketers with just enough ability to stay afloat. Number 1 in Tests, winning CT17, number 1 in T20Is in just the last 4 years — all of this is because despite corruption, mismanagement, malnourishment, poverty, and systematic bias, we have a population large enough to cover some bases.

Now, if Pakistan were to develop a sporting culture like the one in Australia or New Zealand, or if we had the coaching setup, facilities, and infrastructure like the one in England, there is enough “talent” present in Pakistan to make us world beaters — talent being synonymous with population size. Only India would be the team that we could not compete with, if both India and Pakistan maximized their potentials.

Since India is 7 times bigger than Pakistan in population, if you maximized your resources and we maximized ours, India would be able to generate an India A, B, C, D, E, and F which would all be comparable or better than Pakistan A. And Pakistan in turn would have 44 teams that are comparable to New Zealand A.

(I say comparable, not better, because there is an upper limit on how good a team can be. For example, an all time Australia first XI is not actually that much better than the all time second XI because of the sheer amount of quality).

However, in practical terms, obviously population size is not a good substitute for measuring talent as no country is able to fully maximize their resources. The raw talent is exactly the same in both cases, there is no divinely ordained reason that New Zealand should produce McCullums and Williamsons regularly. It’s not luck that such talent is coming through, but a proper structure that is there to nourish the talent that comes through, and a sporting culture that encourages the talent to indeed come through to that structure.

That’s all that “talent” means.

 

[TNAmarkFromIndia]

Someone like Haider Ali, you look at him and see a lot of natural ability in timing the ball, strokeplay, and temperament. You put him in the Indian system starting at the age of 13 and I reckon he would be at a similar level to Shubman Gill or Prithvi Shaw, but the truth is he is far behind as a talent right now.

That also means lesser talented players are more likely to get an opportunity earlier at the international stage for Pakistan than for India. A standout junior player will be thrown into international cricket in Pakistan, whereas in India he has to fight it out against many more established players.

 

[Thunderbolt14]

That also means lesser talented players are more likely to get an opportunity earlier at the international stage for Pakistan than for India. A standout junior player will be thrown into international cricket in Pakistan, whereas in India he has to fight it out against many more established players.

Definitely. I have said this many times that we would love to give Prithvi Shaw a green passport if Indians dislike him that much.

However, I don’t think there is that much of a difference in raw ability (reflexes, hand-eye coordination) between Haider, Gill, Shaw. It’s just the system that each has gone through and the two Indians have developed a much better process-oriented approach to batting.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

I don’t like this “talent” argument. The phrase “x country has a lot of talent” just means that country has a lot of youngsters playing the game at a decent skill level. Freaks of nature who are naturally and genetically more talented will come through any system (very rarely though) but the systems that nurture them better at early stages will develop them better. Then, because of the system, you’ll sit back and go “oh that country has a lot of talent coming through.”

For this reason, India will always be the number 1 country in terms of talent all round, and especially batting talent (because of the sheer number of people who bat at a decent skill level across schools, clubs, departments, and universities, the statistical probability of identifying 6 batsmen good enough to be world beaters is much higher than, say, Pakistan where we have no such system).

In this regard, Pakistan is bankrupt in terms of batting talent because of a lack of developmental processes. Someone like Haider Ali, you look at him and see a lot of natural ability in timing the ball, strokeplay, and temperament. You put him in the Indian system starting at the age of 13 and I reckon he would be at a similar level to Shubman Gill or Prithvi Shaw, but the truth is he is far behind as a talent right now.

I’m not speculating about the careers these people will end up having, but just saying that it all depends on how you define talent. If you define talent as the actual skill (Mamoon’s definition), that requires professionalism and a system which Pakistan does not have (so not much talent). If you define talent in terms of the number of 6”5’ people in the country who have strong shoulders and quick legs, then Pakistan has just as much talent as the statistical probability on demographics might suggest.

We are a big country population wise (sixth biggest in the world) and it is statistically unlikely that there are not random people walking the streets who have all the natural ingredients needed to bat well (core coordination, good hand-eye movements, stable base, aptitude for timing the ball) but they never play cricket in their lives. Or if they do play cricket, they have bad habits relating to tulla tape ball cricket instilled in them from a young age. Etc etc.

This is why Pakistan has always produced more fast bowlers than batsmen — bowling fast does not require a systematic infrastructure the way batting does. You need to practice batting against a hard ball from a young age, play in proper grounds with actual fielders instead of the street breaking windows with the ball, and receive proper technical advice.

Now, the definition you are using of talent, it’s different to Mamoon’s definition. You’re talking about raw talent that did not require a system to develop, people like Wasim Akram, Waqar Younis, Saeed Anwar, and Inzamam ul Haq who all were some of the most naturally gifted cricketers of all time. These guys are the exceptions, equivalent to finding an 8” tall guy and asking him to play basketball.

We cannot just expect this to happen out of the blue. Our raw talent has certainly dried up in the sense that we are not getting Wasim Akram level bowlers coming through anymore. But then again, no country in the world has a single Wasim Akram bowler coming through right now.

For the most part, we must lower the bar one notch in our expectations for raw talent — as a country, Pakistan has just as much talent as any other country and more than most actually, except for the Big 3, New Zealand, and South Africa.

Note that if Pakistan had a population the size of New Zealand, we would be a proper Bangladesh-level minnow team because we simply don’t have a sports culture or system to develop cricketers. Our 200 million population keeps us afloat, as it continues to produce just enough cricketers with just enough ability to stay afloat. Number 1 in Tests, winning CT17, number 1 in T20Is in just the last 4 years — all of this is because despite corruption, mismanagement, malnourishment, poverty, and systematic bias, we have a population large enough to cover some bases.

Now, if Pakistan were to develop a sporting culture like the one in Australia or New Zealand, or if we had the coaching setup, facilities, and infrastructure like the one in England, there is enough “talent” present in Pakistan to make us world beaters — talent being synonymous with population size. Only India would be the team that we could not compete with, if both India and Pakistan maximized their potentials.

Since India is 7 times bigger than Pakistan in population, if you maximized your resources and we maximized ours, India would be able to generate an India A, B, C, D, E, and F which would all be comparable or better than Pakistan A. And Pakistan in turn would have 44 teams that are comparable to New Zealand A.

(I say comparable, not better, because there is an upper limit on how good a team can be. For example, an all time Australia first XI is not actually that much better than the all time second XI because of the sheer amount of quality).

However, in practical terms, obviously population size is not a good substitute for measuring talent as no country is able to fully maximize their resources. The raw talent is exactly the same in both cases, there is no divinely ordained reason that New Zealand should produce McCullums and Williamsons regularly. It’s not luck that such talent is coming through, but a proper structure that is there to nourish the talent that comes through, and a sporting culture that encourages the talent to indeed come through to that structure.

That’s all that “talent” means.

Beautifully put and I completely agree with what you are saying. It is about maximising what you have with structure, hard work and efficiency in the system.
The problem is we see time and again statements from the ex- Pakistan cricketers that Pakistan is the most talented nation on earth.. Statements like Ahmed Shehzad is better then Tendulkar. .and now even Imran saying we have more talent then India. I mean why compare, simply say we have raw talent just need to polish it. As a Leader off-course No one would say you cannot do something.. You motivate people to perform 200x times more than they are capable of.

You had Izaz Ahmed saying before 2018 Semi final match that we will defeat India because we have more Zazbaa and Janoon. So, from outside we feel that these guys genuinely believe in this Jazbaa Janoon talk.
Hence the reactions. Pakistan/India/England/Australia etc all have more or less equal amounts of talent, or there would be some variance but a consistent structure will trump that all most of the times.

 

[Pakhs]

Agree that Pakistan's population is less than India's but its almost 5 times West Indies' population. Yet, Pakistan has remained on the top of test rankings for only 3 weeks in their test history.

Yes Pakistan has achieved highest rank despite having one of the poorest domestic set up and won everything there is to win in LOI set up despite the same. India is nearly 7 times bigger than Pakistan which is second populous country in the cricket playing world says something nearly 7 times.

 

[Pakhs]

Beautifully put and I completely agree with what you are saying. It is about maximising what you have with structure, hard work and efficiency in the system.
The problem is we see time and again statements from the ex- Pakistan cricketers that Pakistan is the most talented nation on earth.. Statements like Ahmed Shehzad is better then Tendulkar. .and now even Imran saying we have more talent then India. I mean why compare, simply say we have raw talent just need to polish it. As a Leader off-course No one would say you cannot do something.. You motivate people to perform 200x times more than they are capable of.

You had Izaz Ahmed saying before 2018 Semi final match that we will defeat India because we have more Zazbaa and Janoon. So, from outside we feel that these guys genuinely believe in this Jazbaa Janoon talk.
Hence the reactions. Pakistan/India/England/Australia etc all have more or less equal amounts of talent, or there would be some variance but a consistent structure will trump that all most of the times.

Have you guys not get it yet? This is for domestic consumption and point scoring which is required from time to time. You will get nothing by saying we have less talent on average etc as compared to other countries that does not work for people who are in position of power.

 

[Mesozoic]

Have you guys not get it yet? This is for domestic consumption and point scoring which is required from time to time. You will get nothing by saying we have less talent on average etc as compared to other countries that does not work for people who are in position of power.

Yes but it doesn't mean we can't analyze or react to those statements.

Many things get said in India too for "domestic consumption" but still often Pakistanis end up getting riled up over those. Numerous examples over the past few years....

 

[Pakhs]

Yes but it doesn't mean we can't analyze or react to those statements.

Many things get said in India too for "domestic consumption" but still often Pakistanis end up getting riled up over those. Numerous examples over the past few years....

I don't mind please react and analyse that's the whole point of this forum. But you guys were discussing why its said etc its not said because they truly believe they have more talent in the country which is not quantifiable but its sounds good to the ears and give them extra points.

 

[Bewal Express]

Again, it is a myth.

Imran was not an average/good bowler until late 70’s because he did not have the talent or the ability.

He was average/good due to several factors such as he did not work very hard on his bowling at that point, he was more focused on his batting even though he wasn’t natural at it, he didn’t get good career advice at that point etc.

However, once he focused on becoming a fast bowler, he realized his true potential because he had immense talent for fast bowling, and that talent was harnessed with the hard work that he did during his time in the UK.

You cannot change your bowling action completely and go from a dibbly-dobbler to one of the all time great fast bowlers unless you are super talented.

Imran is one of the most talented bowlers to have ever played the game, and he would have had even more success at a younger age had he realized his potential earlier.

And how do you know its a myth? He tried to bowl bouncers and lots of them, he wasn't all that good. And you are right that he worked hard and made the most of his talent. He was also a very average batsman, solid but a guy that would have averaged 26, then through sheer hard work he averaged into the 50s in the latter part of his career. Compare his batting to the likes of Botham and Dev, he averaged higher than both, and they both were supremely talented.
And to think that he lost 3 years at his absolute peak and still have amazing statistics shows why he is rated so highly by his peers.

 

[Shafi]

All tall talk and then he appointed most clueless/unskilled people for national team. i.e Misbah and Waqar

 

[Mamoon]

And how do you know its a myth? He tried to bowl bouncers and lots of them, he wasn't all that good. And you are right that he worked hard and made the most of his talent. He was also a very average batsman, solid but a guy that would have averaged 26, then through sheer hard work he averaged into the 50s in the latter part of his career. Compare his batting to the likes of Botham and Dev, he averaged higher than both, and they both were supremely talented.
And to think that he lost 3 years at his absolute peak and still have amazing statistics shows why he is rated so highly by his peers.

It is a myth because hard work alone can never make you a world class cricketer.

And you said it yourself - he worked hard to make the most of his talent, but if the talent was not there in the first place, his hard work would not have made him one of the best fast bowlers of all time.

Shan Masood can work as hard as he wants. He can practice batting 20 hours a day, but he will never become Saeed Anwar, simply because he does not have the ability.

Imran’s talent for bowling was well beyond most bowlers who have ever played the game, and that is why he had the capacity to improve with hard work.

To become a truly great player, you need both talent and hard work. If either is missing, you will fall short.

There could be multiple reasons why Imran was a late bloomer with the ball, but lack of talent cannot be one of them, because had he lacked talent, he would not have been able to transform himself from a medium pacer to a lethal fast bowler.

 

[Bewal Express]

It is a myth because hard work alone can never make you a world class cricketer.

And you said it yourself - he worked hard to make the most of his talent, but if the talent was not there in the first place, his hard work would not have made him one of the best fast bowlers of all time.

Shan Masood can work as hard as he wants. He can practice batting 20 hours a day, but he will never become Saeed Anwar, simply because he does not have the ability.

Imran’s talent for bowling was well beyond most bowlers who have ever played the game, and that is why he had the capacity to improve with hard work.

To become a truly great player, you need both talent and hard work. If either is missing, you will fall short.

There could be multiple reasons why Imran was a late bloomer with the ball, but lack of talent cannot be one of them, because had he lacked talent, he would not have been able to transform himself from a medium pacer to a lethal fast bowler.

Most players at the higher levels have a certain amount of talent otherwise they wouldn't make it to that level. Lets take Jimmy Anderson, a guy that we saw struggling along, never bad but hardly a world beater from 2001 until 2008. So what changed to make him England's greatest bowler, yes, sheer hard work in the nets. Talent needs to be nurtured to take performance to its optimum level. The question is who does the nurturing, is it the system or is it the individual. In IKs case it was him wanting to improve, with the county system helping.
Our system had no focus, why would PIA or Habib bank have the PK team as its focus. They were playing to keep themselves in the job, it was system that did a job back in the day but it wasn't fit for purpose in modern cricket.
As I explained in my post about my son and what helps to make good cricketers( and he wasn't that good), it's not that hard to follow , it just requires resources such as organisation,good pitches and lots of opportunities to play. The only area coaching could make a difference is fielding because we don't have the rugby, AFL and Soccer backgrounds to be able to dive on hard grounds.

 

[BaankeJi]

I don't understand how a 6 team system is better than 16 team system in unearthing players. More teams will mean more players get chances thereby building a bigger pool of players.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

But with a caveat that he believes Pakistan to be 'more talented'. To me it's an extremely subtle indication towards Pakistanis having genetic and physical superiority over Indians, because there's no other measure of cricketing talent where Pakistan are even close to India right now.

I think you are reading too much into it, he's using it to emphasise the lack of structure. IK has always had this belief that Pakistan is filled with lots of raw talent that just needs fine honing. It's more about Pakistan than about India. He won't even know that much about cricket in India other than it is better organised than in Pakistan.

FWIW I agree with him. Pakistan has a lot of raw talent, but most of the players have picked up bad habits and need professional coaching. IK has freely admitted that his own game and many of the Pakistanis who played county cricket in England learned a lot.

 

[Bewal Express]

I don't understand how a 6 team system is better than 16 team system in unearthing players. More teams will mean more players get chances thereby building a bigger pool of players.

It's not 6, it's 12.

 

[Flat_Track_Bully]

I don't understand how a 6 team system is better than 16 team system in unearthing players. More teams will mean more players get chances thereby building a bigger pool of players.

It will increase the quality of cricket and highlight the top performers who have a higher ability because they are playing against better quality players.

I am guessing they will expand from the 12 teams once the quality of cricket has been achieved. Scale up properly this time rather than ghost teams skimming funds off the PCB.

 

[burger_uno]

what is it that they say about genius being one percent inspiration and ninety nine percent perspiration? so question is where is the inspiration going to come from? not an easy answer as far as pakistan is concerned.

azhar ali or fawad alam could be averaging in mid-50s and yet they would never inspire as many people in pak that afridi did despite his middling record. more than likely, someone like afridi gets discarded without a second glance in australia. yet he has been the public face of pak cricket for nearly two decades with his hundred being the most costly 100 in the history of pak cricket. its for the same reason that an almost cartoonish kohli is far more popular in pakistan than a bookish tendulkar ever was. for better or worse, this is also why pakistan cricket is so much fun to watch. twitter fights and captaincy rebellion go hand and in hand with reverse swing and doosra.

earlier generation was inspired by great role models like ik and miandad who were not only pioneers with regards to their game-styles but the success they achieved enabled cricket to conquer parts beyond the traditional heartland. their impact therefore was much beyond their career numbers. unfortunately since the terrorist attack and betting scandal, pak cricket has been suffering from lack of star power. likes of umar akmal, ahmad shezad and amir.v2 are indulged because they supposedly possess same magic fairy dust of earlier generation.

popularity of t-20 can have a very detrimental impact. this is where pcb can be proactive. for example, as a part of their contracts, players like baber azam should be asked to hold coaching clinics in major cities. pink-ball tests can also create interest. times have changed so must pcb. system should obviously improve but razzmatazz is name of game in pak.

 

[BaankeJi]

It's not 6, it's 12.

Thank you.

It will increase the quality of cricket and highlight the top performers who have a higher ability because they are playing against better quality players.

I am guessing they will expand from the 12 teams once the quality of cricket has been achieved. Scale up properly this time rather than ghost teams skimming funds off the PCB.

Thanks.

 

[BreadPakoda]

Yes Pakistan has achieved highest rank despite having one of the poorest domestic set up and won everything there is to win in LOI set up despite the same. India is nearly 7 times bigger than Pakistan which is second populous country in the cricket playing world says something nearly 7 times.

Pakistan has stayed as rank 1 in tests, the purest form of cricket, for only 3 weeks in their entire history. India has stayed for at least more than 6 years. Rest, I'm sure you can do the math.