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India defeat Pakistan by 6 wickets in blockbuster clash

And there is a thread on PP about Kohli's lack of performance against Pakistan :)))

He is a very competitive player and such matches bring the best out of him.

Best batsman in the world along with Joe Root.

Really!? What were they thinking?

I agree, Kohli is the best batsmen in the world. But Joe Root gives him a run for his money for that position due to him being more consistent in tests.
 
Dude it's common sense not to play against the spin on square turners, for all the people who get paid to play cricket. Has nothing to do with our spinners and their spinners.

their spinners turned it a mile past outside edges. Our spinners turned it a mile wide.
And yes our batsmen are generally rubbish so they naturally play across the spin
 
Please give Sami Aslam a chance. Manzoor and Sharjeel have played much more games than him and it's not fair to write him off already.
People were writing Babar Azam off after that 12 and 24 and now he's arguably our best batsmen.

Babar showed his class from day 1.

Sami couldn't get past 20 in 4 innings on the flattest of flat Bangladesh wickets in Tests where everyone was scoring for fun.

These days, he fails against any half-decent attack in warmup/A matches.

Selectors can't justify giving him a chance at the moment. Yes he was unfairly dropped after his debut ODI, but he hasn't helped his case since.
 
This is total delusion.

Indian batting showed that it wasn't JUST the pitch. It was technique and NERVE. They managed to rotate the strike, never got bogged down, etc.

Didn't Pakistan go like 50(66) in the beginning? That is just really really really not good enough.

Sharjeel looked AWFUL. Shehzad was nothing special. Afridi was garbage. Umar and Malik were good, but too little too late and neither of them saw it through till the end.

Sarfraz and Hafeez could manage NOTHING at the end. Let's remember, the last over was against pace, not spin.

It is irresponsible to cover over the failures. 119 is not good enough. NO the batsmen should not feel good about themselves, nor should we. This is the same acceptance of mediocrity that got us Afridi for 20 years
 
1999 was the best chance. It was an ATG Pakistani team chasing a sub par Indian score. 2011 on the contrary had ATG Indian batsman. I get you though. 4 dropped catches of Tendulkar with that dubious LBW decision were just outrageous.

Our bowling was unbeatable in the group stages and we stopped a 34 game WC win streak by Australia (IIRC) thanks to it.

That game was probably one of the most controversial WC games I've seen. Those dropped catches and that LBW decision got me thinking.
 
Remember that Pakistan was in the game only when Sami picked up those wickets. The score was not enough to begin with and then Afridi, Malik bowled badly. Malik's first ball to Yuvraj was good but after that he kept on pitching on leg stump for that miracle ball that turns to outside off. Yuvraj was just happy to sweep. Afridi kept bowling full for some reason and his lengths were disappointing. Imad for Wahab would have been a good choice but I think they will never drop Wahab against India. Having said that, Imad doesn't turn the ball that much. I'd like to think he's like Jadeja with his flat spinners but he is an inferior version and doesn't flight the ball.

Jadeja is a better bowler than Imad, Jadeja turns the ball at pace and has an arm bowl. Imad is mostly one dimenstional right now and it will take any side 1-2 games to figure him out like NZ did with ease. The likes of Nawaz, Asghar should have been picked. Even Yasir Shah needs to be groomed for spin bowling duties in ODI and T-20 cricket. In the abscence of a pre 15 degree Ajmal and Hafeez our spin bowling ranks is non-existent.
 
At player to player level probably not that much big gap (Virat had been the telling difference), but tactically the gap is wider than the 90s Minow vs Test side contest.

IND has 2 of the best cricket minds of the game behind, while PAK is below club level (He was irritating, but one should carefully listen to Shastri's commentary, then listen to WY ...).

Today, the way Virat played, probably a better bowling choice won't had been sufficient, while had Virat gone out to make it 50/4, with this attack, even Afridi could have won it ................ BUT that choice of bowlers, that batting order (Only WY & Afridi can send MoHa at 7 & Sarfraz at 6, after Ash's 1st over .......) sums up were the telling gap is.
 
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Really!? What were they thinking?

I agree, Kohli is the best batsmen in the world. But Joe Root gives him a run for his money for that position due to him being more consistent in tests.

Root has become a beast in Limited Overs as well, but England don't play enough of those. He is untouchable at the moment.
 
I thought it was decent score on that wicket, not match winning but defendable with a good spin attack.

Pak spin bowlers are not the same quality as India or even NZ right now.

They have to start giving new spin bowlers a chance.

These voices were raised before the tournament but as usual recently everything is always reactive when damage had already been done.
 
I can't say much about his technique but the way he survived against good spinners today, was impressive. His technique against spin may have been seen as strong by Rameez Raja.
 
No

Sharjeel did bad, but for someone as poor as him he actually did well.
Afridi... nothing really

Akmal/Malik did well but both got out at the wrong time, if they stayed we could have got up to around 130 which would have been a lot better

120 was never enough when you have 4 pacers and 3 of them are - Riaz/Sami/Irfan

that's what lost us the game, not that Imad/Nawaz would have won us the game anyway
 
pakistan cricket team is run by complete idiots who plays four fast bowlers on a turning pitch where is asghar and gohar I know sami played ok today but he is useless the guy has more lives then a cat . not playing immad or nawaz is a complete and utter blunder. the balls sharjeel wasted at the top was the reason we lost he is simply clueless against spin even though he had a great psl he was always a leg side hack should of had babar instead

Sami and Amir were the only two who adjusted their lengths. They both can also ball cutters which should have been utilized more. It was because of Sami that we had a game. What was required after that is Afridi and Imad bowling and turning the ball for next 8 overs like Jadeja and Ashwin did. That never happened. Afridi was full and enough already said about Imad.
 
Our lack of power-hitting was exposed again.

We really don't have a batsman who can consistently get you 30 (15) deliveries at the death, something Razzaq was able to back in the day.

Umar can do it on his day, but that is rare.

Sharjeel is a joke in front of good bowlers.

The likes of Malik, Hafeez and Sarfraz catch thin air when they look to slog. Less said about Afridi, the better.

We have issues at every position, but we will continue to fail to compete in this era if we don't produce power-hitters like Miller, Buttler, Maxwell etc.

Sarfaraz is not the guy to hit big against pacers, surely he can loft the odd ball against a pacer at the death over covers or over the infield but for that he needs to actually get his eye in and spend time at the crease for like 10 plus overs. Same is the case for Hafeez. Malik can do it and not do it depending on whether the bowler has done his homework on his weak areas or not.

Umar and Afridi, Lottery.

But the issue is not just death hitting. Our bowling attack barring Amir is so poor. If Dhoni had to get 30 runs of 2 overs. The way he hits and hits big, he would have done it. We are just bunnies as far as Kohli, Yuvraj and Dhoni are concerned, we just seem to get the better of these 3.
 
Remember that Pakistan was in the game only when Sami picked up those wickets. The score was not enough to begin with and then Afridi, Malik bowled badly. Malik's first ball to Yuvraj was good but after that he kept on pitching on leg stump for that miracle ball that turns to outside off. Yuvraj was just happy to sweep. Afridi kept bowling full for some reason and his lengths were disappointing. Imad for Wahab would have been a good choice but I think they will never drop Wahab against India. Having said that, Imad doesn't turn the ball that much. I'd like to think he's like Jadeja with his flat spinners but he is an inferior version and doesn't flight the ball.

You answer it your self. We have no spin attack and in india that is deadly. Problem is afridi doesnt play on merit. So we lose 4 overs of genuine spin bowling.
 
Root has become a beast in Limited Overs as well, but England don't play enough of those. He is untouchable at the moment.

Yeah. I know Root is also around the same level as Kohli in LOI's but the fact that he is consistent in tests too stands out and makes him a better batsmen than Kohli.

Sadly, Pakistan's best batsmen are 2 levels below them.
 
You answer it your self. We have no spin attack and in india that is deadly. Problem is afridi doesnt play on merit. So we lose 4 overs of genuine spin bowling.

Yes, but it is not the spinners in the shed. Needed a good spinner like Asghar or Yasir
 
He is technically alright, definitely not very strong but still way ahead of Manzoor.
 
We lost it with out 2 openers simple 40 of 8 lool


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
We lost it with out 2 openers simple 40 of 8 lool


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Our thinking and approach is so chicken ****. Batsmen operate under a fear of getting out, what will happen if i get out e.t.c.
 
Babar showed his class from day 1.

Sami couldn't get past 20 in 4 innings on the flattest of flat Bangladesh wickets in Tests where everyone was scoring for fun.

These days, he fails against any half-decent attack in warmup/A matches.

Selectors can't justify giving him a chance at the moment. Yes he was unfairly dropped after his debut ODI, but he hasn't helped his case since.
Sami Aslam is a terrible batsman. Fakhar Zaman is another over hyped player who is nothing special having seen him, Ugly Stance and nothing to note. Only guy who showed promise among these players was Nauman Anwar till he got screwed up with his technique and stance. [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] Do you think Asad Shafiq or Umar Amin should be given chance as ODI Openers?
 
Pakistani batsman knew the team we played when we're batting in the middle. So after first 4 overs thone batting in the middle and those in dug out should have realised that we are a spinner short so we need to make up for that in batting some how.


They were atleast 22 runs shot of a par score wrt team needs.
 
I swear Kohli has some kind of super transformation every-time he plays v Pakistan. Looked dazzled v NZ and looks like Superman v Pakistan whether it's a donkey or Amir bowling.

India's spin bowling and mental strength, alongside great captaincy from a cool and composed Dhoni always will prevail against us.

2011 WC was the WC where I honestly think we should have won the WC and was when we had the best chance of beating India.

This was your best chance by far .... 23/3 after 5 overs and had to compete for just 13 overs as opposed to 40+ overs at Mohali.
 
Bottom line pak doesn't have the mental strength. We could have 11 Amir's 11 kohlis 11 tendulkars 11 inzis and still we would lose. Your captain is your strength if he leads from the front so does the team ours is weak county cricket standard ( I know it's a bit of a diss to county cricket) so the rest of team lead by example. Just think logically how many of our player would walk into other sides that are above us in rankings. Sharjeel selfie afridi not a chance the only guaranteed one the one that has been away for 5 years.
 
For all those who think the score wasn't enough i agree but 118 wasn't to bad and was definitely defend-able.
what shocked me was the turn and bounce the indian spinner's where extracting from the pitch.
It was turning square,where as Pakistani spinner bowled way to pitched up and didn't allow the ball time to turn.
If any one really paid attention to the lengths of the indian spinner's they would have seen they generally bowled just short of a length which allowed the ball more time to turn.

Afridi's captaincy and bowling today fell apart.
 
This was your best chance by far .... 23/3 after 5 overs and had to compete for just 13 overs as opposed to 40+ overs at Mohali.

Easy LBW not given and 4 dropped catches. If those all went our way we would have won. Here we had no chance. Afridi and Malik can't bowl anymore to save their lives, except for a blue moon vs their whipping boys.
 
Sami Aslam is a terrible batsman. Fakhar Zaman is another over hyped player who is nothing special having seen him, Ugly Stance and nothing to note. Only guy who showed promise among these players was Nauman Anwar till he got screwed up with his technique and stance. [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] Do you think Asad Shafiq or Umar Amin should be given chance as ODI Openers?

what about bilal asif? he was a pinch hitter and mystery off-spinner. Currently, Pakistan does not even have one decent off-spinner. Majority of our bowlers are left-handed.
 
Sami Aslam is a terrible batsman. Fakhar Zaman is another over hyped player who is nothing special having seen him, Ugly Stance and nothing to note. Only guy who showed promise among these players was Nauman Anwar till he got screwed up with his technique and stance. [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] Do you think Asad Shafiq or Umar Amin should be given chance as ODI Openers?

Opening with Shafiq will be like opening with Azhar, while Amin looks good at the crease, but he still has to improve his game especially mentally.

PSL was a golden chance for him and he blew it. I think Butt will be back soon.
 
Opening with Shafiq will be like opening with Azhar, while Amin looks good at the crease, but he still has to improve his game especially mentally.

PSL was a golden chance for him and he blew it. I think Butt will be back soon.
Shafiq looked good until he got run out in PSL. I dont know about Umar Amin but dont want Salman Butt back he has a very poor Strike Rate and ordinary average, Not different to Azhar or Shafiq.
 
Easy LBW not given and 4 dropped catches. If those all went our way we would have won. Here we had no chance. Afridi and Malik can't bowl anymore to save their lives, except for a blue moon vs their whipping boys.

Afridi and Malik might not be the greatest bowlers but Wahab , Amir and Irfan needed to contribute today and that too for just 2 overs each. In Mohali once 260 was posted they had to bat for 40+ overs to stay in the match which is never pakistans forte. Its easier to win in shorter formats of the game as the oppurtunity for putting up a fightback is non-existant. Everything was going Pakistans way till Kohli decided to change the script.
 
Shafiq looked good until he got run out in PSL. I dont know about Umar Amin but dont want Salman Butt back he has a very poor Strike Rate and ordinary average, Not different to Azhar or Shafiq.

Butt is still our best Limited Overs opener in my view. Beggars can't be choosers.
 
Umar Akmal is the biggest dilema. This guy never really performs, Is so frustrating, Has barely done anything in two matches.
 
Afridi and Malik might not be the greatest bowlers but Wahab , Amir and Irfan needed to contribute today and that too for just 2 overs each. In Mohali once 260 was posted they had to bat for 40+ overs to stay in the match which is never pakistans forte. Its easier to win in shorter formats of the game as the oppurtunity for putting up a fightback is non-existant. Everything was going Pakistans way till Kohli decided to change the script.

Not really, the only reason why it was going Pakistan's way was because Amir was bowling to his bunny and Irfan managed some decent "cutters".
 
Butt is still our best Limited Overs opener in my view. Beggars can't be choosers.

Butt has same issues, Was poor on offstump and terrible at strike rotation, Could not play big shots either, Limited batsman. Azhar and Butt opening will be disaster. Maybe Babar Azam can open.
 
How the hell was ball was turning so much in Pak inning but not in India inning?

Indian spinners bowled short of an ideal length so the ball had room to turn and bounce, on a normal pitch they'd have been long hops that got slogged to the boundary but here they were almost unplayable.

Pakistani spinners did the opposite and pitched it up
 
I know that it was a square turner, however, majority of the Pakistani batsmen (especially shehzad) made it even more difficult for themselves by mostly playing against the spin on this pitch.

Just look at how Yuvraj and Kohli played our spinners. I don't remember a single ball they played against the spin. Yuvraj waited for afiridi's deliveries to come on to him and then played them on the onn-side.

How could one call batsmen playing against the spin on a square-turner, technically strong?

Shehzad did better that Yuvraj, what are you talking about? 28 ball 25 vs 23 ball 24. what is the difference?
 
Not really, the only reason why it was going Pakistan's way was because Amir was bowling to his bunny and Irfan managed some decent "cutters".

well if your great fast bowlers aren't going to show up even on a helpful wkt not sure how you can win any matches to be honest ... there is no other way but to keep up the bowling pressure. Sami un-expectedly did well but the others just did not do their part.
 
How the hell was ball was turning so much in Pak inning but not in India inning?

Because our length was to full,
They ball just back of a length and it allowed the ball to turn a mile.
which for some reason out spinner's didn't seem to understand and kept pitching it up.
 
Easy LBW not given and 4 dropped catches. If those all went our way we would have won. Here we had no chance. Afridi and Malik can't bowl anymore to save their lives, except for a blue moon vs their whipping boys.

Man despite the DRS proving you wrong you still continue. I thought some Bangla fans were the biggest whiners but you take the cake, whining after 5 years and making excuses. No you would not have have won as dhoni would have come early and killed your chances
 
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well if your great fast bowlers aren't going to show up even on a helpful wkt not sure how you can win any matches to be honest ... there is no other way but to keep up the bowling pressure. Sami un-expectedly did well but the others just did not do their part.

"great"? Our fast bowling attack stopped being great after 2013 imo. Gul lost it, Junaid lost it, and Amir was banned at the time. Irfan also suffered injuries and Sami was all over the place.

The reason why we did well bowling v BD was because Amir and Afridi had pretty good games.
 
especially for som1 who is playing as an "all-rounder," his over 6 runs economy on this square turner was amazing.

move on...... the guy is neither a genuine all-rounder nor a good thinking cricketer.

if he was smart, he would have had slip on his very first ball against Yuvraj.

Simply a one dimensional cricketer.

Hafeez proposed however Afridi vetoed.
 
Why we call Pak team unpredictable ? When playing against India result is always so predictable . Probably Pak is the most consistent team of all, when playing against India.
 
Man despite the DRS proving you wrong you still continue. I thought some Bangla fans were the biggest whiners but you take the cake, whining after 5 years and making excuses. No you would not have have won as dhoni would have come early and killed your chances

That's your opinion isn't it. It's a hypothetical situation we will never see the aftermath of.

I respect your opinion, an if in your opinion I'm a whiner then I'm fine with that.

:)
 
Why we call Pak team unpredictable ? When playing against India result is always so predictable . Probably Pak is the most consistent team of all, when playing against India.

Only in WC's. People forget we normally are better outside of them.
 
Highest scored for Pak
Highest SR for either team

But Pakistan had lost the plot when he came to bat
 
Butt has same issues, Was poor on offstump and terrible at strike rotation, Could not play big shots either, Limited batsman. Azhar and Butt opening will be disaster. Maybe Babar Azam can open.

For all his limitations, he would probably have scored more ODI tons than Saeed Anwar had he not lost 6 years.
 
How the hell was ball was turning so much in Pak inning but not in India inning?

Cos Pakistan bowlers were pitching it too full and not allowing it to spin.

Watch some of the Afridi's deliveries pitched in good length. They turned a lot. Kohli had to really reach out to get those singles.

Malik didn't turn it as much as Ashwin but that's expected cos he is not a specialist spinner.

Problem is that Pakistan came to India with a phattu squad.

No specialist spinners. All AR spinners.
 
technique is okay but shezad's true strength is his mental fortitude
 
Indian spinners bowled short of an ideal length so the ball had room to turn and bounce, on a normal pitch they'd have been long hops that got slogged to the boundary but here they were almost unplayable.

Pakistani spinners did the opposite and pitched it up

No bro. Most of the deliveries were proper good length by Indian spinners.

Its just that on a rank turner, batsmen get on the backfoot as much as possible so those look shorter than they are.

Probably there may have been a few shorter than good length deliveries that spun a lot but that's about it.
 
People laughed at me when I said I was gonna put a bet on my rivals to win today. The only thing I'm pleased about is that we kinda ruined India's NRR just like in 2012 when they got knocked out by SA. It's important for us now to focus on NZ and hope our excellent record lives up to its name.
 
He walks into our team at the moment. Those who say that he should be dropped have no idea what they are talking about.

His bowling though is atrocious right now. Was terrible in NZ, was bad in the PSL, was really bad today. Is it his fault that the no-brain trust picked him as one of only two actual spin options? No. But it's still an issue that he's so poor with the ball.

Then again everyone else is poor with the bat so who cares.
 
"great"? Our fast bowling attack stopped being great after 2013 imo. Gul lost it, Junaid lost it, and Amir was banned at the time. Irfan also suffered injuries and Sami was all over the place.

The reason why we did well bowling v BD was because Amir and Afridi had pretty good games.

that bowling attack is infinitely better than India's.

And that SRT lbw decision in Mohali was re-confirmed by Hawkeye to be a correct descision (i.e missing leg). And don't forget that Ajmal and HAfeez were "bowling" with illegal actions.
 
Looked calm with the bat and under the towering catch as well to get Rohit.

The bowling wasn't sharp but then again he should never be the 2nd spinner in your XI. He's not good enough to handle such a role with the ball.

He's more of a third spinner or 6th bowler.
 
His bowling though is atrocious right now. Was terrible in NZ, was bad in the PSL, was really bad today. Is it his fault that the no-brain trust picked him as one of only two actual spin options? No. But it's still an issue that he's so poor with the ball.

Then again everyone else is poor with the bat so who cares.

A word or two on his bowling as well, please.

He is a part-time bowler. What do you expect when he is thrusted as a second spinner?
 
For all his limitations, he would probably have scored more ODI tons than Saeed Anwar had he not lost 6 years.
Shehzad can also score tons. And he is 24. Its not about Tons, Salman Butt never was something to talk about usually just bashing indisn bowling which was poor back then.
 
Ball stopped turning excessively near the end of Pakistani innings...and thats why MSD did not ask his main spinners to bowls full quota.

Bottom line: Indian were batting in different conditions
 
Pak needed few more spinners. On a rank turner playing 4pacers was calamitous to beggin with. The spinners who were there bowled far too full, leg sided, poor areas and too quick - needed to flight the ball, try spinning the ball, on right areas and let the pitch do the rest.
 
He is a part-time bowler. What do you expect when he is thrusted as a second spinner?

Read before you knee-jerk defend Malik. I said is he to blame that he's being thrust into this role? No. But I'm sure as hell not going to thank him for a 20+ score and 2 horrible overs.
 
that bowling attack is infinitely better than India's.

And that SRT lbw decision in Mohali was re-confirmed by Hawkeye to be a correct descision (i.e missing leg). And don't forget that Ajmal and HAfeez were "bowling" with illegal actions.

I'm confused. Are you saying our 2011 bowling attack was better than your 2011 bowling attack or are you talking about today's match?
 
Read before you knee-jerk defend Malik. I said is he to blame that he's being thrust into this role? No. But I'm sure as hell not going to thank him for a 20+ score and 2 horrible overs.

No one told you to thank him, but you are barking up the wrong tree because Malik isn't the problem at the moment.

He is not a specialist spinner and he was up against the best batsman in the world, what did you expect?
 
On a rank turner? To not go for over 10 an over.

His first over wasn't bad. But thanks to the terrible fielding set by Afridi, Yuvi & Kohli murdered us with the singles before going for the big shots to finish it. If we had an attacking fielding set right when Afridi came in to bowl after Raina's wicket had fallen, Malik might have done better.
 
In Pakistan actual plan malik was not bowling and by misreading the pitch clearly Pakistan lost the plot....both Malik and Afridi bowled negative lines and were too scared to be victim of break in over that didnt happen and India built up the inning around them nicely.

Apart from that he is batting well enough to be part of the team on that merit alone.
 
Though he isn't technically correct but he was doing excellent job when he was 25 of 27 while he had faced 3 overs of Ashwin and Jadega which were hight quality spin bowling and he survived.

Yuvraj and Kohli faced rubbish bowling of Afridi & Malik. So we cannot compare.


Why Shehzad got out on the wrong time when he needed to score 35 runs of next 20 balls to make it 60 of 48 ?


Because of poor shot selection and an ugly Howick execution.


So team suffered. It was a time he needed to kick on. It was a boundary ball but poor planing wrt which shot to play and poor execution resulted in him getting out.


Shehzad & Akmal were playing well but failed to complete their job for their innings to be termed good.
 
Not really. Malik was bowling trash. On a rank turner, why in the world was he bowling full?

Again, he is a part-time spinner. Don't expect him to bowl like a specialist.

That's the difference. He doesn't have a good bowling brain or the skills to execute it. He was finished as a bowler a decade ago.
 
People will blame his bowling, but he is in the team as a batsman first. Not his fault our dependency increased on him tenfold because Captain bubble gum and management wanted to play with only 1 specialist. He's only good for 1-2 overs in t20s at best. Kohli toyed with him as the best t20 bat in the world.

What's Afridi's excuse? Chalo, he couldn't click with the bat because he is a bowler first yeah? What happened with the ball?

But Shobby did decently with the bat. Had we taken the pitch into consideration I may have not even played Sharjeel maybe and opened with Shobby with Hafeez at 3, or Hafeez opens with Shobby at 3. It is adventurous but Shobby and Hafeez are the best players of spin we have by far.
 
Malik did ok. He is one of the better cricketers we have in the team. The match was lost when we picked four seamers and then failed to put up a big score. A very common and predictable occurrence these days unfortunately.
 
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