India in India vs Australia in Australia - The real fortress

[Joseph Gomes]

You got carried away there with Shane Wane comment.

I can genuinely see us seeing off even McGrath but Warne? come on this team has been owned by Moeen freaking Ali time and again and you are saying we will smash Warne to oblivion? Monty Panesar and Graham Swann have troubled India. Nathan Lyon has constantly been a pain in the Salman Butt.

Gone are the days when Indians smashed the greatest spinners like they were third rate citizens.

India since the last decade or so has been quite average against spin. After retirement of Yoni and Misbah we are probably once again the best in the works at playing spin but the standards have dropped dramatically.

Shane Warne would destroy this Indian team anywhere in any format.

Warne would absolutely get smashed. The only reason India has struggled in 1 test in last 7 years (where they lost) was because it was a rank turner.

India averages 45 at home while batting since 2015 (when Kohli became captain). They average 40 in 2000s. Warne would average around in the 50s probably.

 

[BreadPakoda]

Kohli, Pujara etc all average far higher at home than the ones you mentioned above. Kohli averages 100+ at home since 2016.

So Pujara and by others, I assume you mean Rahane, Vihari, Nair etc., are better batsman of spin than SRT, Dravid, Sehwag, etc.?

 

[big_gamer007]

It is official.

Fortress India now the mightiest in history

11 wins in a row

25/1 since 2013

Hats off

Indians have no answer to this yet.

1. Fortress UAE/Pakistan
2. Fortress Australia
3. Fortress England


Too 3 genuine fortresses in cricket.

End of debate.

Bhaijaan

That awkward moment when someone changes his gimmick from a heel to a face and someone from the audience brings up his past..

 

[Nikhil_cric]

It is official.

Fortress India now the mightiest in history

11 wins in a row

25/1 since 2013

Hats off

Despite having some very sporting pitches too. Truly this is a great achievement for Indian team .

 

[tyron_woodley]

You got carried away there with Shane Wane comment.

I can genuinely see us seeing off even McGrath but Warne? come on this team has been owned by Moeen freaking Ali time and again and you are saying we will smash Warne to oblivion? Monty Panesar and Graham Swann have troubled India. Nathan Lyon has constantly been a pain in the Salman Butt.

Gone are the days when Indians smashed the greatest spinners like they were third rate citizens.

India since the last decade or so has been quite average against spin. After retirement of Yoni and Misbah we are probably once again the best in the works at playing spin but the standards have dropped dramatically.

Shane Warne would destroy this Indian team anywhere in any format.

shane warne would get a nice little phainta in india. He would be rendered ineffective. You need to be high quality finger spinner to trouble these Indians.
On rank turners yes I agree but india won't prepare rank turners for Lyon again due to the unpredictable nature of the pitch. Just like australia wouldn't prepare a green mamba because lucky of winning the toss would play a huge role in the outcome of the game.

 

[sweep_shot]

Australia haven't been a dominating home side lately. They lost to South Africa and India at home in the past 3 years.

India were clinical and dominating. I can't remember when was the last time they lost a home Test series.

 

[Napa]

come on this team has been owned by Moeen freaking Ali time and again and you are saying we will smash Warne to oblivion?

Mooen "freaking" Ali averaged 64.90 per wicket the last time England were stupid enough to play him in India.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...51;template=results;type=bowling;view=innings

 

[Chrish]

India didn’t play Pakistan when the later was capable of challenging them.

 

[tyron_woodley]

India didn’t play Pakistan when the later was capable of challenging them.

same can be said about pakistan not playing india at their best.

 

[Chrish]

That’s the point. It’s like Aus refusing to play SA, the only team that beat them at home; and then keep pounding every other touring side. It would leave an asterisk next to their record.

And it was India who refused to play Pak, rightfully or wrongfully.

 

[Mesozoic]

That’s the point. It’s like Aus refusing to play SA, the only team that beat them at home; and then keep pounding every other touring side. It would leave an asterisk next to their record.

And it was India who refused to play Pak, rightfully or wrongfully.

Pakistan could not "beat" India in their last four visits.

South Africa have won last 3 series' that they've played in Australia.

Wrong comparison.

 

[Chrish]

Pakistan could not "beat" India in their last four visits.

South Africa have won last 3 series' that they've played in Australia.

Wrong comparison.

Yeah but that’s not what I said.

 

[Mesozoic]

Yeah but that’s not what I said.

You said there is an asterisk for India's dominance at home because they did not play pakistan and compared that to south Africa not playing in Australia.

But facts state that Pakistan couldn't win a single series in India in their last three visits, and South Africa have won all of their last three series in Australia. So , obviously comparing apples to oranges.

So, what makes you think that Pakistan would have even challenged India during this dominant run (2013-2019) when even their best teams of 90s and early 00's couldn't.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Kohli, Pujara etc all average far higher at home than the ones you mentioned above. Kohli averages 100+ at home since 2016.

He also averaged 9 at home when Aussies came at him with a real bowling line up.and a real spinner

 

[Bhaijaan]

India didn’t play Pakistan when the later was capable of challenging them.

It's true but you have what you have. We didn't refuse to play Pakistan because we were afraid otherwise we wouldn't have played them when they had a golden generation and we were truly mediocre.

 

[Indiafan]

That’s the point. It’s like Aus refusing to play SA, the only team that beat them at home; and then keep pounding every other touring side. It would leave an asterisk next to their record.

And it was India who refused to play Pak, rightfully or wrongfully.

Did you seriously compare Pak with Australia?

 

[Joseph Gomes]

So Pujara and by others, I assume you mean Rahane, Vihari, Nair etc., are better batsman of spin than SRT, Dravid, Sehwag, etc.?

Not enough sample size for the rest to make a claim, Pujara and Kohli is however.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

He also averaged 9 at home when Aussies came at him with a real bowling line up.and a real spinner

On rank turner, and Kohli was also out of form. Biggest outlier of his career, textbook definition of outlier.

 

[Mamoon]

This is the greatest Asian Test team of all time, and beating them in India will be the greatest achievement for any visiting team in Asia. Really don’t see any team beating in India for at least 3-4 years if not more.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

This is the greatest Asian Test team of all time, and beating them in India will be the greatest achievement for any visiting team in Asia. Really don’t see any team beating in India for at least 3-4 years if not more.

Aussies with Smith/Warner/Hazelwood/Cummins/Lyon pose the biggest threat to this team. No other team can hope to match us in Asia.

 

[Pakhs]

India in India has always been the bigger fortress since the early 90s and remain so even know. Australia was only a fortress for Asian teams - England - SA have always been able to play good cricket in Australia and even WI were winning there until 95.

The only real fortress for every team has always been India.

 

[Mamoon]

Aussies with Smith/Warner/Hazelwood/Cummins/Lyon pose the biggest threat to this team. No other team can hope to match us in Asia.

Warner is rubbish in India and always will be. Australia need at least two batsmen to support Smith in order to have a chance of toppling India at home.

To beat India in India, you have to score 400+ every time you bat and have a quality spinner in your ranks who can take advantage of scoreboard pressure.

England almost managed that with the bat in 2016 but Rashid and Moeen were no match for the Indian batsmen except the first Test.

 

[Pakhs]

Did you seriously compare Pak with Australia?

Pakistan will still do better in India than they would in Australia - they wont beat either though currently.

 

[Chrish]

Did you seriously compare Pak with Australia?

When Misbah Yunis were playing, Pakistan didn’t loose any series for several years in uae. They would have challenged current Indian side but India refused to play them.

 

[Chrish]

It's true but you have what you have. We didn't refuse to play Pakistan because we were afraid otherwise we wouldn't have played them when they had a golden generation and we were truly mediocre.

Fact remains India refused to play Pakistan. Whatever the reason may be.

 

[Mesozoic]

When Misbah Yunis were playing, Pakistan didn’t loose any series for several years in uae. They would have challenged current Indian side but India refused to play them.

They didn't win many as well. You'll find a handful of 1-1 draws in there . You can't really call that "domination". India would have comfortably come out on top against that Pak team even if they played in UAE.

 

[Chrish]

They didn't win many as well. You'll find a handful of 1-1 draws in there . You can't really call that "domination". India would have comfortably come out on top against that Pak team even if they played in UAE.

Rubbish.. You have no clue how good that Pak team was in Asian conditions.

Ash and Jadeja have never come across players of spin of that caliber apart from Smith. But that’s just one player whereas Pak team was filled with them.

 

[Mesozoic]

Rubbish.. You have no clue how good that Pak team was in Asian conditions.

Ash and Jadeja have never come across players of spin of that caliber apart from Smith. But that’s just one player whereas Pak team was filled with them.

Rather it was the Pak batsmen who never came across spinners of Ash and Jadeja's calibre in Asian conditions.

Ash and Jadeja came across brilliant players of spin like Cook, Amla, ABD, Williamson, Faf etc and came out on top. Only good players of spin were YK and Misbah. Rest all are mediocre as evident by their recent capitulations in UAE against Sri Lanka and New Zealand. I'm pretty sure Pakistan would not have challenged India with just two good players of spin bowling.

 

[tyron_woodley]

pakistan vs india will always be a tough matchup for both teams so yea pakistan would challenge the current GOAT indian side under misbah but I think kohli's team will have the edge due to being more well rounded and balanced.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

He also averaged 9 at home when Aussies came at him with a real bowling line up.and a real spinner

He also averaged 50+ at home when they came with an even better bpwling lineup and the same real spinner in 2013.

 

[Napa]

come on this team has been owned by Moeen freaking Ali time and again and you are saying we will smash Warne to oblivion?

The discussion is about India in India. Ali averages 64.9 per wkt in India.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/8917.html?class=1;template=results;type=bowling

 

[King_Kohli]

India in Test cricket in 2019:

Batting Average - 56.85
Bowling Average - 19.66

An average difference of 37.19!!

No other team ever had an average difference more than 30 in a calendar year in Test cricket. [Min: 5 matches]

 

[sunny85]

Hi, can someone tell me. Indian toured Australia in Dec18-Jan19 and won border Gavaskar trophy.

Now it should be Aus touring India before we tour them again.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Fortress Australia has some work to do. Indians are getting their winning confidence back.

 

[shamaan]

Rather it was the Pak batsmen who never came across spinners of Ash and Jadeja's calibre in Asian conditions.

Ash and Jadeja came across brilliant players of spin like Cook, Amla, ABD, Williamson, Faf etc and came out on top. Only good players of spin were YK and Misbah. Rest all are mediocre as evident by their recent capitulations in UAE against Sri Lanka and New Zealand. I'm pretty sure Pakistan would not have challenged India with just two good players of spin bowling.

The names you metioned are not in the same league as misbah and younis in tests in asaia/uea Pakistan would give india a run for their money in india or uea with misbah and younis

 

[tyron_woodley]

The names you metioned are not in the same league as misbah and younis in tests in asaia/uea Pakistan would give india a run for their money in india or uea with misbah and younis

I agree with this. In India though it's Impossible to win for any of those teams including misbah's team.

I think it's very close in u.a.e but if anyone can beat misbah's team there then it has to be virat's.

Man that would have been a world class series. Problem is in 90s India had a weak pace attack. Indian attack is too good now so that's where the edge goes in India's favour imo vs misbah's team.

Misbah
Younis
Azhar

That was quite a great Asian test side in home condtions. They would beat Australia of the 2000 era at home imo.

 

[shamaan]

I agree with this. In India though it's Impossible to win for any of those teams including misbah's team.

I think it's very close in u.a.e but if anyone can beat misbah's team there then it has to be virat's.

Man that would have been a world class series. Problem is in 90s India had a weak pace attack. Indian attack is too good now so that's where the edge goes in India's favour imo vs misbah's team.

Misbah
Younis
Azhar

That was quite a great Asian test side in home condtions. They would beat Australia of the 2000 era at home imo.

It would have been a very interesting series i think younis would have been player of the series he has to be top 10 in asain conditions

 

[shamaan]

I would rather play india in india than
Austrlia in Australia

 

[Swashbuckler]

Since 2008 Aussies have lost so many test series at home

thrice against SA (2008-09, 2012-13, 2016-17)
twice against Ind (2018-19 and 2020-21)
once against Eng (2010-11)

A home series dropped almost every second year. They have been ruthless against other teams, have had many convincing series victories etc. but at this point we must wonder if their home dominance in recent times is a tad overrated. They were unstoppable when they had their ATG team, maybe our judgement is clouded because of that.

India lost against Eng in 2012, before that to Aussies in 2004. I don't think we will lose a home series anytime soon, even England hasn't lost a series at home since 2014 I think.

 

[Swashbuckler]

After the England home series loss in 2012 India has dropped just one match at home, against Aus at Pune in 2017.

Since then India's W/L ratio at home is 28. NZ impressive at 8, Aus at 6. Pakistan of course yet to lose in Pakistan.

 

[Swashbuckler]

* Sorry Aus W/L is 5, 30 wins, 6 losses (4 against India, 2 against SA). Doesn't include the 2012 SA tour to Aus which SA won 1-0.

 

[Pakhs]

Australia was never a fortress, Many teams have come and won in Australia.

 

[Dingolfy]

After the England home series loss in 2012 India has dropped just one match at home, against Aus at Pune in 2017.

Since then India's W/L ratio at home is 28. NZ impressive at 8, Aus at 6. Pakistan of course yet to lose in Pakistan.

View attachment 106288

That 2012 loss was mostly due to our seniors being at the end of their career.

 

[Amjid Javed]

India are pretty much unbeatable at home. Kiwis and england havent lost series at home for a while either.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Since 1989 India has lost 3 series at home. 32 years 3 series.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

With England all set to lose this series, there is only 1 true fortress in cricket now - India. Won all home series in the last 8.5 years.

 

[MP2011]

Shows once again why England as a home team can't be clubbed with India and Australia.

 

[Bhaijaan]

England is losing too many home tests.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

India is the only team England thoroughly dominates at home. England at loses tests/series to basically every other test team out there.