javiersuka
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Pakistan are heavy favorites right before every series and every WC Match against India, there is nothing new here.
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India needs to invite Pakistan for some real competition
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India does not need Pakistan and we have proved can survive without them as well. With so much terrorism and people dying at the LOC Cricket is the last thing we should be worried about. I don't believe in Aman ki Asha or people to people contacts type hypocritical rubbish. The likes of Aus, RSA, England and NZ will give India much more then just a challenge on their own grounds.
GrandMaster
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+1 - Pakistan have better fielders too. Pakistan would still win it, even in the absence of Misbah and YK.
sorry i meant 2016 side. misbah is still a beast vs spin. he would run them ragged with sweeps and reverse sweeps and slog sweeps
kingusama92
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Yasir Shah would be a handful on a rank turner.
Easily the toughest competition Indian batsmen would face at home.
Not sure how well our batsmen would do against their spinners. It would be one hell of a series though.
Easily the toughest competition Indian batsmen would face at home.
Not sure how well our batsmen would do against their spinners. It would be one hell of a series though.
Yasir Shah would be a handful on a rank turner.
Easily the toughest competition Indian batsmen would face at home.
Not sure how well our batsmen would do against their spinners. It would be one hell of a series though.
Tougher than facing Herath IN SL ?
Chrish
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People are seriously being delusional if they think Pakistan is anywhere near the no 1 team picture..
kingusama92
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That's why I mentioned "At home" meaning in India. Herath is a tough challenge in SL conditions, but so is James Anderson in England.
I am talking more about who would make Indian batsmen sweat in their den.
I think Yasir would do a far greater job against India considering he's in his prime.
kingusama92
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In Asian conditions? I disagree.
Pakistan is a robust competitor in Asia because their weaknesses (i.e. swinging ball/slow reflexes) get hidden.
Does it mean they'd beat India? Maybe not, but it would be a tight series.
Chrish
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I agree with your assessment.. I just don't see how Pak can be favorite against India ATM.. only they have tiny bit of chance to challenge India of all sides right now but if I am betting my money on hypothetical series I don't see how India can't be favorite!
Herath in India has a horrible record. 11 wkts in 3 Test at 48.
kingusama92
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That's my point. Herath isn't good away from home.
Yasir would pose a greater challenge than Herath. Don't forget, Yasir Shah did well in SL (25 wickets in 3 tests at 18 AVG).
Plus, as I said, Yasir Shah is in his prime.
Anwar_194
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No ...They need to full-fill the commitment and play in UAE as Pak will host the match.
Well India havent lost a series to SL in ages ... Pak did so back in 2014 and 2012 ,,, ( I know you guys won in 2015 ) and secondly Ashwin Outbowled Herath in SL and that too by a big margin.
Sadevdesai
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Lots of chest thumping knowing it probably will not happen soon, and when it does happen, people will forget that you did say that !!!
kingusama92
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I'm not comparing Ashwin to Shah in those conditions.
Ashwin won't be bowling against India. From all the spinners who can bowl against India, I'd put Yasir Shah at the top.
Does that mean Pakistan would win? No, but I think Indian batsmen wouldn't walk all over Pakistan because of Yasir.
kingusama92
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You don't think Pakistan would pose a great challenge? ENG, AUS, and NZ are fantastic teams but not in spin-friendly conditions.
There's nothing wrong in suggesting PAK would do better in India.
India might still win of course but it would be a close fought series.
We can only make educated guesses based on the nearest best comparisons available and that is SL and how Herath fared against India in SL (Unless you think Yasir is a better bowler than what Herath is in SL ) ... if you really want then you can check the one ODI that Yasir has played against India and got completely outbowled by Ashwin. Was wicketless and leaked a lot of runs bowling to Kohli who wasnt even at his best in that WC match in 2015.
kingusama92
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Problem with Herath in SL is we don't have a "like-for-like" comparison with Yasir Shah. When Shah played in SL, Herath didn't play.
Yasir is a below par ODI bowler. Always has been. I wouldn't take too much out of that performance.
I'm not suggesting you're wrong as it's a mere opinion at the end of the day. India could very well smash Yasir Shah around but I do feel he would be a handful.
Chrish
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On a serious note, does Pakistan have suitable replacements for Yunis and Misbah?
then just look at Herath vs Indian batsmen and Herath vs Pak Batsmen ... it gives a good clue about how spinners will fare and Herath is a better spinner than Yasir.
lets forget Herath for a moment ... even Bishoo did very well and that too in UAE
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...most_wickets_career.html?id=11489;type=series
This is why Pak will be in for a rude shock if and when they play India.
street cricketer
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What [MENTION=8597]kingusama92[/MENTION] says is perfectly reasonable. I don't know why there are so many disagreements with his statement. Pakistan might not necessarily beat India in India, but they are sure to give the biggest challenge for India more than any other team purely because they play spin better than all teams that have faced Pakistan and ditto with their spin bowling.
Ankit007
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Yeah and pitches you are getting are lively right? Come out from your delusion.... If you cant score on it doesnt mean pitches are lively...
I don't think England played that bad, they just didn't have any capable bowlers. Although Pak has better bowlers for these conditions, but there batting doesn't come close to England. India at the moment is just too good for any current teams to handle.
because they lost to WI at home and it was because of Bishoo and Bravo ... actually they were very lucky to escape with a series win.
sensible-indian-fan
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Counter argument can be made that if Rashid picked 23 wickets in a test series against India, Yasir can too.
Rashid averaged 28 odd after first 3 tests. Was the highest wicket taker at that point I think.
Yasir could do what all he did and some more.
We can't extrapolate anything.
I would give the edge to India (due to our spin attack, depth in batting) but only when we have a real series, we will know.
Rashid averaged 28 odd after first 3 tests. Was the highest wicket taker at that point I think.
Yasir could do what all he did and some more.
We can't extrapolate anything.
I would give the edge to India (due to our spin attack, depth in batting) but only when we have a real series, we will know.
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23 Wkts at 37 each and a S/R of 60 with Zero 5fers ... thats never going to win you any series in India.
sensible-indian-fan
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Yes...even that stats flatter him (though he did bowl well in the first 3 tests). Did get a few 4fers though.
But the point I am trying to make is if Rashid can do it, Yasir can do that and much more. Get those cheap wickets (which Rashid did) coupled with a some top order wickets and in a crucial moment....the game can change.
It will be a tight battle imho regardless of the final series scoreline.
Doesnt work like that ... like you said those stats flatter him ... to make a difference Yasir has to be like 50% better than Rashid and then some other bowler has to step up and take like 15-20 Wkts. Not going to happen.
sensible-indian-fan
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Yasir is easily 50%+ better than Rashid.
In fact, he could make a 100% more impact in series with the same amount of wickets (23-30) if they are taken of the right batsmen.
One would assume Pakistan would bring in some other spinner (other than Zulfi - like Asfghar is called up in Aus) to support Yasir in India.
England with all their rubbish bowling STILL put us under serious pump several times in the series. The difference was they didn't have the quality to win those crucial moments and we were too clutch to crawl out of it and get into dominant positions. The same won't happen so easily with Yasir and co. They will win some of the crucial moments and the tests will get super close.
In the end, the other factors that lack of solid support spinner for yasir....not much batting depth....Pak's propensity to collapse under pressure gives India the edge before the encounter but its also true that things won't be easy at all. Only a real series can tell what will happen (though I personally expect India to win the series in India).
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ego-gambit
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In 2017 Ind vs Pak rivalry will resume if both nations concord on playing series in India and UAE till then Pak can find A good offie
cric_fanatic
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All said and done, and however much we would like to see the series pushing through next year, honestly it looks like a very remote chance of it happening. Looking at the current scenario. Unless a substantial improvement in political climate. The last proposed series didnt push through, when things were better between govts.
hur rizvi
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Against spin YK is a beast. Still best in the world
Azhar and Shafiq might struggle a bit but Sarfraz and Misbah are also damn good against spin.
And YK is a guy who has played wonderfully well against Murali at his peak and his spin playing ability has become better with age.
Younus will score a big 100 against India in India if he gets a chance
hur rizvi
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Man we are talking about Sub-Continental conditions
Misbah, YK, Sarfraz are world class players against spin
Azhar and Shafiq are good too
In these conditions Pakistan batting >> England
hur rizvi
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We do have damn good record in India. World cup record doesnt count as we are talking about bilaterals
JaDed
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TBH we atleast need to play Pakistan in UAE/India reason being playing in Asia can only get our bowlers more points and more stability of performances.
Sa/NZ/ENG/AUS are lucky in the way that their fast bowlers get to prove themselves in those countries but Asian sides (two major) not playing each other is a big loss for both the teams atleast from a statistic POV for spinners and spin playing batsmen.
Sa/NZ/ENG/AUS are lucky in the way that their fast bowlers get to prove themselves in those countries but Asian sides (two major) not playing each other is a big loss for both the teams atleast from a statistic POV for spinners and spin playing batsmen.
But they've not been tested against good spinners, all they have done is rake up runs against western teams. Ashwin and Jadeja together are far superior to these guys in these conditions. The one thing I noticed with these Pakistani batsmen is they will have a mental degradation at the prospect of facing India.
hur rizvi
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Younus has a double ton in India against Kumble and Harbhjan. Misbah had a splendid series in India
Younus has a 17 years long career and he is as good as they come against spinners.
Pakistan is currently ranked #3 in the ICC list and will most likely be ranked #5 by the end of the Australian series. When they were #2, there was some validity in challenging India for the #1 position. A couple of months ago I never bought into this idea (accepted even by many Indian posters) that the Pakistani Test was equal or even better than India's. The reasons were:
1) India lost its #1 ranking only due to rain and umpiring decisions that cost it matches (like in Australia and SL)
2) Pakistan drew with England but the English team seemed quite weak.
3) India's batting resources are simply phenomenal. Players scoring even triple centuries in FC matches have no chance of even being considered for the Indian team. Contrast this with the situation in Pakistan.
4) Even our fast bowlers Sharma, Kumar and Yadav are ranked about the same as Wahab, Sohail and Amir. Our spin duo is the best ever.
5) When India became #1, it was after having played in Aus and Eng. So we reached our #1 ranking AFTER having played AWAY in these countries which have fantastic home advantage.
Reality of course interrupts delusions. Two months later we now have India on a 4 game win streak and a 17 game unbeaten streak whereas Pakistan is on a 4 game losing streak. There are still some who maintain that the Pakistan Test team is better, but they are a bit subdued now.
Behind India's success is the increased professionalism of the sport in India. Professionals will always beat amateurs.
When YK scored that double ton, who were the Indian spinners and how were they ranked? Our spin duo is now ranked the #1 and #2 bowlers in the world. YK would not have the same success this time around.
Reality interrupting delusions ... thats a Classic ... Brilliant
I would like to add the following two points in the mix
6. Pakistan have never won a Series in WI *EVER*
7. They came this close to losing a series to the #8 ranked WI team. And this was just about a month ago !
8. The rankings take into account matches played over the previous 3-4 years ( see the Link to rules below) so in that period ( From April-2013 to now ) we have played IN All countries except UAE and Zim . We have played more matches away than at home and have been unlucky not to win 3 easy matches due to rain wash out. Link : http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...n;team=6;template=results;type=team;view=host
Rules for Test Ranking : http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci-icc/content/story/874363.html
as the saying goes Facts have a tendency to be annoying and inconvenient especially when they squarely refute ones opinions.
Sadevdesai
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We got # 1 ranking because India vs WI Test Match was rained out ..... remember ?????? Hmmmm ....
hur rizvi
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Kumble and Harbhajan
Younus is world class against spin. He certainly can have same success against your spinners
Rayyman
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India will win on square turners. Pakistan will win everywhere else. 
hur rizvi
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This is obviously all hypothetical. Pakistan might or might not beat India but all those who think India can white wash Pakistan or have an easy series like against England and South Africa, they are living in fools paradise.
hur rizvi
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India will win on square turners. Pakistan will win everywhere else.
Square turners are a lottery. Win the toss and win the match
On square turners, I would say it would be toss dependent and on UAE type pitches it would be an even game.
hur rizvi
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ANd before posting replies see the context. My reply was to a person who said England batting is better than PAkistan in Indian conditions.
I think if Pakistan brings back Hafeez (allrounder) to open with AA then Pakistan are clear favorites. Hafeez is a monster in the sub continent. Even if Misbah retires and he gets replaced by Harris/Fawad/Akmal, Pakistan can win. I can only imagine Younis/Sarfraz sweeping everything Indian bowlers throw at them.
big_gamer007
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Seems like you care enough to get hurt by his post and reply.. Whatever he wrote was the harsh truth, PCB on the other hand would gladly accept a series with India anytime anyday of the year..
Anyways regarding the topic Pakistan vs India in tests will be between two of the cloesest matches teams ever so it should be a great series.. But it's all hypothetical fans here mostly post to incite others it seems, the series won't happen so both set of fans can claim their team would win..
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Hitman
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It's been 9 years since we last saw an Ind vs Pak Test series. I so desperately wanted to watch Sachin play one last Test series against Pakistan. Extremely disappointing.
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Indiafan
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India will win on square turners. Pakistan will win everywhere else.
I doubt your pace attack currently is superior to ours. Shami is ahead of Amir. He averaged 25 this series where teams where scoring 600s and 700s
90MPH
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I can reply to whatever I like because this is called a forum where you post veiws and reply to posts in case you didn't know.
If anyone is hurt it's you because of the fitting reply I gave him so you had to butt in the middle.
What harsh truth ?? The truth is the BCCI is a greedy out of control organisation that only wants more power and money and couldn't care less about cricket in general. We saw that in clear evidence with their ridiculous power grab back in 2014 because they needed more money so the associates could get less.
As for not playing Pakistan I couldn't care less - understand ? If your government and board wants to be such childish cowards so be it but all I want is consistency so you boycott in Pakistan in all forms of cricket, not just what suits you like skipping every bilateral tour but then ready to play ICC or Asia cup Matches. What BS and double standards !!
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The quality of spinners what Eng batsmen have to face is much higher to what Pak batsmen have been facing. Despite that, they have done well to put huge scores on consistent basis in their previous tours to UAE and now in India. Not to mention the depth to their batting unit.
We can't even whitewash 2nd string WI in UAE, whitewashed by weak NZ and most likely another whitewash by Australia. What guarantees do we have that we will perform better in India against Indian. For last decade we are outplayed by India in LOI! We have neither skill nor talent to play pressure game
Who said it's Misbah' last series? PCB wants him to stay till 2018 if not 2020
So IPL is better than test series against Pakistan!!!! He if PCB has an honest chairman we could boycott India long time ago.
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Just so you know its not BCCI that gets to decide on this matter - its the Indian Govt. If you think Modi is corrupt and greedy ....
Syed1
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Other than a victorious or drawn series, Misbah will himself resign, me thinks.
Mamoon
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Pakistan cannot beat India in a Test series anywhere right now. They bowl, bat and field better - also have a better captain.
Rayyman
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India's batting is overrated. Rahul is yet to be tested against the new ball outside Asia. Nair is young and Pakistan tends to expose youngsters anyway. Pakistan's bowlers are very patient and I don't think Kohli would be able to handle the pressure put on him as a batsman. He is more of a free-flowing batsman while Pak is very good at stopping runs. I can see Pujara testing Pakistan the most. Younis, Misbah, Shafiq and Sarfraz will most likely destroy Ashwin and Jadeja's confidence. Pak's fielding is underrated too. Sami is good at short leg. Babar can take some electric catches. YK and Shafiq have safe pairs of hands. I've never seen Wahab drop a catch. Yasir is a great fielder. Those saying it will be a cakewalk for India should beware. Pakistan are not an easy team to beat.
Buffet
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He has 2 tons outside of Asia. To put it in perspective, if you take the last 10 years of performance then Ali has one ton, Misbah has 2 tons and YK has 3 tons outside of Asia.
His career has just started, but looking at how he bats, I will say that he has a good prospects.
Sin Nombre
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I got from his reply that Pakistan's fielding is poor when we are talking about the hypothetical average of Amir but their fielding is good when they are playing in this hypothetical series against India.
<table>
<thead><tr><th></th><th>UAE</th><th> </th><th> </th><th>India</th><th> </th><th> </th></tr></thead><tbody>
<tr><td> </td><td>Won</td><td>Drawn</td><td>Lost</td><td>Won</td><td>Drawn</td><td>Lost</td></tr>
<tr><td>WI</td><td>1</td><td>0</td><td>2</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>2</td></tr>
<tr><td>NZ</td><td>1</td><td>1</td><td>1</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>3</td></tr>
<tr><td>SA</td><td>1</td><td>0</td><td>1</td><td>0</td><td>1</td><td>3</td></tr>
<tr><td>Aus</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>3</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>4</td></tr>
<tr><td>Eng</td><td>0</td><td>1</td><td>2</td><td>0</td><td>1</td><td>4</td></tr>
<tr><td>SL</td><td>1</td><td>1</td><td>1</td><td>0</td><td>1</td><td>2</td></tr>
<tr><td>"</td></tr>
<tr><td>Total</td><td>4</td><td>3</td><td>10</td><td>0</td><td>3</td><td>18</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<thead><tr><th></th><th>UAE</th><th> </th><th> </th><th>India</th><th> </th><th> </th></tr></thead><tbody>
<tr><td> </td><td>Won</td><td>Drawn</td><td>Lost</td><td>Won</td><td>Drawn</td><td>Lost</td></tr>
<tr><td>WI</td><td>1</td><td>0</td><td>2</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>2</td></tr>
<tr><td>NZ</td><td>1</td><td>1</td><td>1</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>3</td></tr>
<tr><td>SA</td><td>1</td><td>0</td><td>1</td><td>0</td><td>1</td><td>3</td></tr>
<tr><td>Aus</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>3</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>4</td></tr>
<tr><td>Eng</td><td>0</td><td>1</td><td>2</td><td>0</td><td>1</td><td>4</td></tr>
<tr><td>SL</td><td>1</td><td>1</td><td>1</td><td>0</td><td>1</td><td>2</td></tr>
<tr><td>"</td></tr>
<tr><td>Total</td><td>4</td><td>3</td><td>10</td><td>0</td><td>3</td><td>18</td></tr>
</tbody></table>
Likes of WI can win a match in UAE, NZ and SA can draw the series, SL can win a match there, but somehow India will remain at their level against Pakistan?
WI hasn't won match in India for 20 years. I have seen NZ and SL winning a match in India ever since I started watching cricket. SA saved a match only because of rain.
There is huge difference between performances of both teams in these conditions against other teams.
WI hasn't won match in India for 20 years. I have seen NZ and SL winning a match in India ever since I started watching cricket. SA saved a match only because of rain.
There is huge difference between performances of both teams in these conditions against other teams.
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Wonder how people feel about this topic in light of Chappell comments
It appears that Chappell was critical of the Pakistani players' fitness and that is a valid criticism. Rotund players like Sharjeel are never going to beat super-fit players like Jadeja (to say nothing of Kohli).
Professionalism produces fit athletes, Pakistan needs a commercially successful cricket league to produce athletic cricketers.
Anyway, the #5 team challenging the #1 team is a bit odd. If Pakistan gets back to the #2 or even the #3 position this thread would be meaningful.
It Does that again
Hey, good to see you again. I was going to wait till the end of the series to update my assessment
Bhaag Viru Bhaag
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Only those who have seen Indo-Pak matches in the past knows very well that when it comes to playing bilaterals against each other both teams starts equally. No matter how weak is the other team you will not see a dominating performance from one side only.
Hey, good to see you again. I was going to wait till the end of the series to update my assessment
Naaah ... losing to a minnow is a event worthy of immediate attention
. I did not realize how low WI are in Test ranking ... they have just 69 points 
https://www.icc-cricket.com/rankings/mens/team-rankings/test
Sadevdesai
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Soooo ..... who is #1 ranked Team ???? India or Pakistan???? .... Hmmmmm !!!!
Nil Dhumrojal
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Play in Bangladesh to get highest neutral fan support.
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