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India: Poet Muhammad Allama Iqbal, Who Wrote 'Saare Jahan Se Achha', May Be Dropped From Syllabus

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MenInG

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The Academic Council of Delhi University on Friday passed a motion to remove a chapter on Pakistan's national poet Muhammad Iqbal, also known as Allama Iqbal, from the political science syllabus, members of the statutory body confirmed.

Born in 1877 in Sialkot in undivided India, Iqbal wrote the famous song 'Saare jahan se achha'. He is also known for giving birth to the 'idea of Pakistan'.

The chapter titled 'Modern Indian Political Thought' is part of BA's sixth-semester paper, officials said, adding that the matter will now be presented before the Executive Council of the university that will take the final call.

The Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh-affiliated Akhil Bharatiya Vidyarthi Parishad (ABVP), meanwhile, welcomed the development.

"A motion was brought regarding a change in the syllabus of political science. As per the motion, there was a chapter on Iqbal that has been removed from the syllabus," said an Academic Council member.

A unit on Iqbal titled 'Iqbal: Community', which is part of the syllabus was reviewed by news agency PTI.

There are 11 units as part of the course with the objective to study important themes through individual thinkers.

Other thinkers that are also part of the course include Rammohan Roy, Pandita Ramabai, Swami Vivekananda, Mahatma Gandhi, and Bhimrao Ambedkar.

"The course has been designed to give students a glimpse into the richness and diversity within the Indian political thought," the syllabus mentions.

The course is aimed to equip students with a critical understanding of modern Indian thought, it adds.

"The thematic exploration of ideas is meant to locate the topical debates on important subjects on a historical trajectory and reflect over the diverse possibilities exhibited in the writings of the respective thinkers," it further stated.

Meanwhile, the ABVP welcomed the move, saying "fanatic theological scholar" Iqbal was responsible for India's partition.

"Delhi University academic council decided to scrap fanatic theological scholar Mohd Iqbal from DU's political science syllabus. It was previously included in BA's sixth-semester paper titled 'Modern Indian political thought," the ABVP said in a statement.

"Mohammad Iqbal is called the 'philosophical father of Pakistan'. He was the key player in establishing Jinnah as a leader in Muslim League. Mohammad Iqbal is as responsible for India's partition as Mohammad Ali Jinnah is," it added.

NDTV
 
RSS on to something big here I feel. The role of Allama Iqbal in shaping India's history is getting to them.
 
Makes sense, the guys focus was more on theology wasnt it?
 
Cover Drive Six said:
Never heard his name.
What role he had played to shape Indian history?
Click to expand...

Could be because he is a Muslim so understandable.

Btw you know that little thing you sing in India...

Saray jahan sai acha.... etc -

Just look up the author for that.
 
MenInG said:
Could be because he is a Muslim so understandable.

Btw you know that little thing you sing in India...

Saray jahan sai acha.... etc -

Just look up the author for that.
Click to expand...

This is not popular as national anthem, occasionally sing in South Indian Schools.

Vandemataram (National Song) and Janagana mana ( National Anthem) are sung in most schools daily.
 
Technics 1210 said:
Never heard of Allama Iqbal? What a sad indictment of Indian intellect.

I suspect you have heard of Louis Francis Albert Victor Nicholas? He definitely shaped Indian History, better known as Earl Mountbatten.

Easier to remember a white Brit I suppose.

:)
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Dude I am not joking.
Just check with some people/students who you know from South India, I bet 99℅ of them don't know the name of Allama Iqbal.
 
Except writing Saare Jahan Se Achha, Iqbal doesn't have much importance in India.

Those taking Urdu as a subject may read more about him or his works.
 
cricketjoshila said:
Except writing Saare Jahan Se Achha, Iqbal doesn't have much importance in India.

Those taking Urdu as a subject may read more about him or his works.
Click to expand...

Bro you are being sarcastic I think
 
cricketjoshila said:
Except writing Saare Jahan Se Achha, Iqbal doesn't have much importance in India.

Those taking Urdu as a subject may read more about him or his works.
Click to expand...

to be fair, the guy has been over rated in Pakistan aswell.

Pakistan's was founded on the ideology of two nation theory. The idea was introduced and made popular by Sir Syed Ahmad Khan, not Allama Iqbal. However, people give more credit to Allama Iqbal and consider him to be the one behind the ideology of Pakistan which is not true.

Issue was, Allama Iqbal was more of a theologian, while Sir Syed was complete opposite and relied on rationality more. Plus, students in Pakistan study Allama Iqbal's poetry and his qoutes, and in most of his qoutes he is referring religion or using jargons related to Islam. Thus, he has won more reputation amongst Pakistanis get easily appeased when religion is used.

Sir Syed is part of the Pakistani school syllabus much much later, and some people consider him to be kaffir or non muslim, because he used rationality and was open minded. He also found Ahmadis in high regard (because they are also a very rational sect) and this doesnt sit well with Pakistani muslims.

Interestingly, both Sir Syed and Iqbal belonged to different times.

Sir syed witnessed the first war of independence, he saw the after math of it, he saw the urdu-hindu controversy, while he populairzed the two nation theory, but he did on the basis of rationality, logic and facts. He looked at the different socio economic and political factors. Muslim league got formed on his ideas.

Iqbal just carry forward Sir Syeds work. Had Sir syed not been rational and would had made the basis of his ideology on the basis of religion, Muslim league would not had formed and it would not had been able to negotiate with the British as they didnt respected religion, they respected facts and logic.

To get independence, we needed educated leaders first, not some people who have Islamic beliefs because they were still uneducated.

Thus, its illogical for Pakistanis to suddenly becoming concerned that someone they idolize on the basis of theoology isnt respected as much in India and is being vanished from their books. We Pakistanis ourselves have vanished sir syed and call him a kaffir and blasphemer. So who are we to talk?

Plus, Allama Iqbal didnt play much role compared to Sir Syed, thus, if India feels like he shouldn't be mentioned in their history books than they will have reasons for it.

If India does something, its considered as a blantant attack on Muslims. But if we Muslims Pakistanis do the same, than no one lays an eye on it
 
I don’t find that hard to believe that some Indian Hindus don’t know Iqbal. Do any Muslim Pakistanis know. Har Gobind Khorana???? Or do they know Har Gobind Khorana. Two nobel prize winners from lahore and somewhere else from Punjab . I am sure most Pakistanis don’t know them. Why is that??
 
Major said:
to be fair, the guy has been over rated in Pakistan aswell.

Pakistan's was founded on the ideology of two nation theory. The idea was introduced and made popular by Sir Syed Ahmad Khan, not Allama Iqbal. However, people give more credit to Allama Iqbal and consider him to be the one behind the ideology of Pakistan which is not true.

Issue was, Allama Iqbal was more of a theologian, while Sir Syed was complete opposite and relied on rationality more. Plus, students in Pakistan study Allama Iqbal's poetry and his qoutes, and in most of his qoutes he is referring religion or using jargons related to Islam. Thus, he has won more reputation amongst Pakistanis get easily appeased when religion is used.

Sir Syed is part of the Pakistani school syllabus much much later, and some people consider him to be kaffir or non muslim, because he used rationality and was open minded. He also found Ahmadis in high regard (because they are also a very rational sect) and this doesnt sit well with Pakistani muslims.

Interestingly, both Sir Syed and Iqbal belonged to different times.

Sir syed witnessed the first war of independence, he saw the after math of it, he saw the urdu-hindu controversy, while he populairzed the two nation theory, but he did on the basis of rationality, logic and facts. He looked at the different socio economic and political factors. Muslim league got formed on his ideas.

Iqbal just carry forward Sir Syeds work. Had Sir syed not been rational and would had made the basis of his ideology on the basis of religion, Muslim league would not had formed and it would not had been able to negotiate with the British as they didnt respected religion, they respected facts and logic.

To get independence, we needed educated leaders first, not some people who have Islamic beliefs because they were still uneducated.

Thus, its illogical for Pakistanis to suddenly becoming concerned that someone they idolize on the basis of theoology isnt respected as much in India and is being vanished from their books. We Pakistanis ourselves have vanished sir syed and call him a kaffir and blasphemer. So who are we to talk?

Plus, Allama Iqbal didnt play much role compared to Sir Syed, thus, if India feels like he shouldn't be mentioned in their history books than they will have reasons for it.

If India does something, its considered as a blantant attack on Muslims. But if we Muslims Pakistanis do the same, than no one lays an eye on it
Click to expand...

:facepalm

Don't try to claim your post as facts. Sir Syed is regarded highly in Pakistani books, early school I went to always had Sir Syed references in Pak studies. Many schools had houses/clubs named after Sir Syed, along with Jinnah, Iqbal etc, as he is regarded among influential figure of early days of Pakistan.

You demeaning a prominent figure like Iqbal is so naive. His poetry just wasn't religious based, I guess you didn't concentrate on studies much and just posting rubbish material on social media.

Bending over backwards for anything Indian has become your hobby here, guess you have run out of steam supporting choors and mafia so onto next set to simply argue with posters... troll type.
 
Iqbal was a Pandit from father's side and his mother was a Punjabi. So his mother tongue was basically Punjabi and from his father's side Kashmiri. But he wrote his poetry predominantly in Persian and then Urdu. Both were not his language. I sense low self esteem.
Lastly he sided with Jinnah and was pro-partition. He obviously believed that Muslims cannot live under majority Hindus. Whether his name should be omitted from textbooks is debatable. But there are far more important patriotic Muslim freedom fighters who does not even get a passing mention. The man had nothing to do with India.
 
Never heard about this Iqbal guy before coming to Timepass Section on PP many years ago where one could regularly read about Iqbal this, Iqbal that. Another guy about whom I have seen being mentioned over the years is Faiz. Don't know anything about their literary works, not bothered.

Dont know which states in India teach about some random Urdu poets in their Curriculum and for what purpose.
 
Is Rabindranath Tagore taught in Pakistani schools??? Honest question. Maybe someone in Pakistan can answer .
 
Pakistanis always seem like they think the world revolves around them or something??

How many of them have read or even know Dinkar, Tagore, Subramania Bharati , kachiyapar??
None
 
Isn’t Iqbal the guy who wrote Sare Jahaan se Accha and later modified it and advocated creation of Pakistan? If so, it’s no wonder that he isn’t widely respected nor studied in India.

And for those saying this is shameful, do you even acknowledge and study about your Indian roots? The Gandhara dynasty who ruled present day Pakistan and Afghanistan. Even the cities of Lahore (founded and named after Lav, son of Rama) and Kasur (founded by his twin brother Kush), Peshawar (original name - Purushapura) or Multan (derived from the Sanskrit Mulasthana) were all Hindu cities which were converted later. If you guys can pick and choose what you can study from your history , don’t expect us to study the people who were instrumental in breaking up our country.
 
Expecting Indians to know Allama Iqbal is like expecting Pakistanis to know Munshi Premchand or Rabindranath Tagore. Pretty sure most Pakistanis have little knowledge about them
 
liam26 said:
Never heard about this Iqbal guy before coming to Timepass Section on PP many years ago where one could regularly read about Iqbal this, Iqbal that. Another guy about whom I have seen being mentioned over the years is Faiz. Don't know anything about their literary works, not bothered.

Dont know which states in India teach about some random Urdu poets in their Curriculum and for what purpose.
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He is National Poet of Pakistan. Like Rabindranath Tagore in India or Kazi Najrul in Bangladesh

Which explains why Pakistanis are very sentimental about Iqbal but I hope you guys understand he does not same stature in India or Bangladesh. I mean forget India. Bangladesh was part of Pakistan till 1971 and you will never meet any Bangladeshi who knows Iqbal. Bcoz he was Urdu poet not Bengali. In fact in 1950s East Pakistan strongly opposed when Urdu poets & writers like Iqbal was added to their course curriculum leading to big protests
 
The Vice Chancellor of the University, Yogesh Singh, is quoted as saying “that instead of teaching about such people, we should study our national heroes.”

This is a puerile comment for a Vice Chancellor of a University to make. A serious study of humanities should not be about fostering a narrow patriotism and nor is it an immature attempt to lionise ‘heroes’ and declaim or ignore ‘villains’.

The issue is that ultra-nationalists want a single narrative and have a low threshold for tolerating complexity and difference.

But in fact reality is plural, complex and messy. There is not just one experience of life. A serious study of humanities requires an understanding of different perspectives, cultures and societies that are separated by time and/or space. It should make you think, enable you to appreciate nuance and complexity, tolerate messiness and leave you with an ability to ask difficult questions and to think for yourself.

Difference cannot be wished away. If the Vice Chancellor has an aversion to Iqbal, he could still learn a thing or two from Rabrindranath Tagore:

“When there is genuine difference, it is only be expressing and restraining that difference in its proper place that it is possible to fashion unity. Unity cannot be achieved by issuing legal fiats that everybody is one.”
 
Major said:
to be fair, the guy has been over rated in Pakistan aswell.

Pakistan's was founded on the ideology of two nation theory. The idea was introduced and made popular by Sir Syed Ahmad Khan, not Allama Iqbal. However, people give more credit to Allama Iqbal and consider him to be the one behind the ideology of Pakistan which is not true.

Issue was, Allama Iqbal was more of a theologian, while Sir Syed was complete opposite and relied on rationality more. Plus, students in Pakistan study Allama Iqbal's poetry and his qoutes, and in most of his qoutes he is referring religion or using jargons related to Islam. Thus, he has won more reputation amongst Pakistanis get easily appeased when religion is used.
Click to expand...

This seems to misunderstand theology or the thrust of Sir Sayyid’s work or both. The term theologian in fact fits Sayyid Ahmad Khan better than Allama Iqbal. Sir Sayyid was a theologian and a radical one. For a study of Sir Sayyid's theology and his efforts to shape a new ‘ilm al-kalam, refer to the work of Christian Troll: Sayyid Ahmad Khan: A Reinterpretation of Muslim Theology.

Then there is the question of the ‘two-nation’ theory. To be sure, in the realm of ideas and institutions, Sir Sayyid did much to create the foundations of Muslim separatism. But it is anachronistic to read back the idea of two nations to him. In his time, as Anil Seal wrote, one could argue, “In so shapeless, so jumbled a bundle of societies, there were not two nations, there was not one nation, there was no nation at all. What was India?—a graveyard of old nationalities and the mother of new nationalisms struggling to be born.”

For Iqbal, his appeal and impact rested not on mere religious invocations and platitudes as seems to be suggested here. It rested instead on the fact that during a period of anxiety and uncertainty for many Muslims, he produced an inspiring modernist vision of progress. He tried to channel the sorrow of contemporary Muslim decline into a positive call for action and Muslim agency. As Eve Tignol has recently argued Iqbal, “transformed the poetry of lament into a revolutionary poetry of resilience.” For Iqbal, “death was not an end but a new beginning.” Revolution and turmoil were the essence of life. It was those who were engaged in ceaseless struggle and striving that were truly alive.
 
KB said:
This seems to misunderstand theology or the thrust of Sir Sayyid’s work or both. The term theologian in fact fits Sayyid Ahmad Khan better than Allama Iqbal. Sir Sayyid was a theologian and a radical one. For a study of Sir Sayyid's theology and his efforts to shape a new ‘ilm al-kalam, refer to the work of Christian Troll: Sayyid Ahmad Khan: A Reinterpretation of Muslim Theology.

Then there is the question of the ‘two-nation’ theory. To be sure, in the realm of ideas and institutions, Sir Sayyid did much to create the foundations of Muslim separatism. But it is anachronistic to read back the idea of two nations to him. In his time, as Anil Seal wrote, one could argue, “In so shapeless, so jumbled a bundle of societies, there were not two nations, there was not one nation, there was no nation at all. What was India?—a graveyard of old nationalities and the mother of new nationalisms struggling to be born.”

For Iqbal, his appeal and impact rested not on mere religious invocations and platitudes as seems to be suggested here. It rested instead on the fact that during a period of anxiety and uncertainty for many Muslims, he produced an inspiring modernist vision of progress. He tried to channel the sorrow of contemporary Muslim decline into a positive call for action and Muslim agency. As Eve Tignol has recently argued Iqbal, “transformed the poetry of lament into a revolutionary poetry of resilience.” For Iqbal, “death was not an end but a new beginning.” Revolution and turmoil were the essence of life. It was those who were engaged in ceaseless struggle and striving that were truly alive.
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thanks for your reply, you are well versed in these chapters so thankyou for correcting me if I was wrong somewhere.
 
Kriketer said:
:facepalm

Don't try to claim your post as facts. Sir Syed is regarded highly in Pakistani books, early school I went to always had Sir Syed references in Pak studies. Many schools had houses/clubs named after Sir Syed, along with Jinnah, Iqbal etc, as he is regarded among influential figure of early days of Pakistan.

You demeaning a prominent figure like Iqbal is so naive. His poetry just wasn't religious based, I guess you didn't concentrate on studies much and just posting rubbish material on social media.

Bending over backwards for anything Indian has become your hobby here, guess you have run out of steam supporting choors and mafia so onto next set to simply argue with posters... troll type.
Click to expand...

Sir Syed is considered as Heretic in Pakistan. Naming a school hall means nothing.

I think you didnt go to good schools to or were ever involved in discussion with your teachers to know about sir syed and just calling other peoples post rubbish.

Sir syed is insulted in Pakistan history by Pakistanis and some even considered him a blashphemer.

Crying about India 24/7 has maybe become your hobby, and than not knowing your own country's history of how it is no different.
 
SalimBhai said:
Is Rabindranath Tagore taught in Pakistani schools??? Honest question. Maybe someone in Pakistan can answer .
Click to expand...

Nope, infact even the likes of Bhagat singh are also not referred at all.

Our history starts from some a guy called Mohammad bin Qasom who has nothing to do with Pakistan and existed 1300 years ago. Than only the muslim leaders are part of our hsitory, any other hindu or sikh leader was a bad guy. THan when we enter the period of 1900, its only muslim leaders again. We dont even about Bhagat singh or anyone.

Infact, Even Gandhi is hated in Pakistan. Not a lot of people know the fact that Gandhi died for Pakistans rights.
 
Major said:
Nope, infact even the likes of Bhagat singh are also not referred at all.

Our history starts from some a guy called Mohammad bin Qasom who has nothing to do with Pakistan and existed 1300 years ago. Than only the muslim leaders are part of our hsitory, any other hindu or sikh leader was a bad guy. THan when we enter the period of 1900, its only muslim leaders again. We dont even about Bhagat singh or anyone.

Infact, Even Gandhi is hated in Pakistan. Not a lot of people know the fact that Gandhi died for Pakistans rights.
Click to expand...

Startling to hear and thank you for being honest. A must read for our Indian liberal brothers in this forum.
 
Mockingbird said:
Isn’t Iqbal the guy who wrote Sare Jahaan se Accha and later modified it and advocated creation of Pakistan? If so, it’s no wonder that he isn’t widely respected nor studied in India.

And for those saying this is shameful, do you even acknowledge and study about your Indian roots? The Gandhara dynasty who ruled present day Pakistan and Afghanistan. Even the cities of Lahore (founded and named after Lav, son of Rama) and Kasur (founded by his twin brother Kush), Peshawar (original name - Purushapura) or Multan (derived from the Sanskrit Mulasthana) were all Hindu cities which were converted later. If you guys can pick and choose what you can study from your history , don’t expect us to study the people who were instrumental in breaking up our country.
Click to expand...

Very good point. The hypocrisy doesn't end there. When India renames cities in India to their original Hindu names there is plenty of outrage and they profusely thank their founding fathers.
 
So to summarise, Saare Jahan Se Achha, is one of the most popular ‘songs’ in Indian schools, and Indian history (past 100 years), one of Gandhi’s favourite when he was in prison, but new age right wing nationalist Indians have no clue about the writer. Amazing, these same Indians will cite the singer and producer of a cheap grade Bollywood tracks, will know the names of key Pakistani officials across the border, will post on Pakistani forums, know the number of cows in existence, but when it comes to anything Islam, they turn a blind eye and pretend like it never happened.

To be honest, this is very much expected in ‘incredible’ India.
 
Major said:
Nope, infact even the likes of Bhagat singh are also not referred at all.

Our history starts from some a guy called Mohammad bin Qasom who has nothing to do with Pakistan and existed 1300 years ago. Than only the muslim leaders are part of our hsitory, any other hindu or sikh leader was a bad guy. THan when we enter the period of 1900, its only muslim leaders again. We dont even about Bhagat singh or anyone.

Infact, Even Gandhi is hated in Pakistan. Not a lot of people know the fact that Gandhi died for Pakistans rights.
Click to expand...

Which history was taught to you. Certainly same wasn’t taught to me.

Bhagat Singh we know. Not a lot of detail but there’s half a page.

We read about the Guptas, Mauryas, india valley civilization etc.

Please stop spread misinformation
 
Technics 1210 said:
So to summarise, Saare Jahan Se Achha, is one of the most popular ‘songs’ in Indian schools, and Indian history (past 100 years), one of Gandhi’s favourite when he was in prison, but new age right wing nationalist Indians have no clue about the writer. Amazing, these same Indians will cite the singer and producer of a cheap grade Bollywood tracks, will know the names of key Pakistani officials across the border, will post on Pakistani forums, know the number of cows in existence, but when it comes to anything Islam, they turn a blind eye and pretend like it never happened.

To be honest, this is very much expected in ‘incredible’ India.
Click to expand...


I've never heard of Iqbal either. I think I recall Imran Khan saying the poet was his greatest inspiration but I've never bothered to find out who he was. He's not an important figure for Indians.
 
Technics 1210 said:
So to summarise, Saare Jahan Se Achha, is one of the most popular ‘songs’ in Indian schools, and Indian history (past 100 years), one of Gandhi’s favourite when he was in prison, but new age right wing nationalist Indians have no clue about the writer. Amazing, these same Indians will cite the singer and producer of a cheap grade Bollywood tracks, will know the names of key Pakistani officials across the border, will post on Pakistani forums, know the number of cows in existence, but when it comes to anything Islam, they turn a blind eye and pretend like it never happened.

To be honest, this is very much expected in ‘incredible’ India.
Click to expand...

This has nothing to do with the recent Modi govt. I grew up in the 90s and we never studied about Iqbal. Yes, we all knew Saare jahaan se Accha but nothing about its poet. It has been a conscious decision since the old Congress central govt days to ignore Iqbal and rightly so, because he was an advocate of the partition of the country.
 
Mockingbird said:
Isn’t Iqbal the guy who wrote Sare Jahaan se Accha and later modified it and advocated creation of Pakistan? If so, it’s no wonder that he isn’t widely respected nor studied in India.

And for those saying this is shameful, do you even acknowledge and study about your Indian roots? The Gandhara dynasty who ruled present day Pakistan and Afghanistan. Even the cities of Lahore (founded and named after Lav, son of Rama) and Kasur (founded by his twin brother Kush), Peshawar (original name - Purushapura) or Multan (derived from the Sanskrit Mulasthana) were all Hindu cities which were converted later. If you guys can pick and choose what you can study from your history , don’t expect us to study the people who were instrumental in breaking up our country.
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False parallel! Don't change the subject, this thread is about Sare Jahaan se Acha, not Pakistan's educational curriculum.

Failing to mention/teach history is not the same as saffron-washing history which India is hell bent on.

And its not Mumbai, it Is Bombay.
 
Cover Drive Six said:
Dude I am not joking.
Just check with some people/students who you know from South India, I bet 99℅ of them don't know the name of Allama Iqbal.
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Majority of Indians won't know who wrote the National Anthem or Vande Mataram.

Doesn't mean they get reduced in importance.

Your logic is unsurprising though, coming from a Modi fan.
 
It’s a shame Indians don’t know Iqbal or Pakistanis don’t know Tagore . Both sides don’t know their history. Pakistan has already erased the Hindu part of its history and india is in the process of removing its Muslim past.
 
pillionrider said:
Majority of Indians won't know who wrote the National Anthem or Vande Mataram.

Doesn't mean they get reduced in importance.

Your logic is unsurprising though, coming from a Modi fan.
Click to expand...

Majority of Indians will know who is having an affair in Bollywood, but as you said, the same lot are oblivious to India's roots and culture.

I always doubted India's educational system, but now the doubt has been removed.
 
pillionrider said:
Majority of Indians won't know who wrote the National Anthem or Vande Mataram.

Doesn't mean they get reduced in importance.

Your logic is unsurprising though, coming from a Modi fan.
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Nice try equating Iqbal with a Nobel prize winner.

Not surprised. Hatred does strange things to the brain.
 
cricketjoshila said:
Nice try equating Iqbal with a Nobel prize winner.

Not surprised. Hatred does strange things to the brain.
Click to expand...

Did you and the RSS sprout a brain recently.

Why have we been singing Sare Jahan Se Accha? And why is it one of the most venerated songs in India?
 
pillionrider said:
Majority of Indians won't know who wrote the National Anthem or Vande Mataram.

Doesn't mean they get reduced in importance.

Your logic is unsurprising though, coming from a Modi fan.
Click to expand...
Most of the school kids or at at least some know about Ravindranath Tagore but not Iqbal.

Modi has nothing to do with this topic but not surprised from you.
 
pillionrider said:
Did you and the RSS sprout a brain recently.

Why have we been singing Sare Jahan Se Accha? And why is it one of the most venerated songs in India?
Click to expand...
Under feku, soon it'll be an anti national act to sing Sare Jahan Se Acha since it was penned by a Muslim.
 
pillionrider said:
Majority of Indians won't know who wrote the National Anthem or Vande Mataram.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure they teach in schools there that Tagore wrote the anthem. But nobody knew who wrote Vande Mataram or Sare Jahaan Se Acha even though everybody sung it.
 
RexRex said:
I'm pretty sure they teach in schools there that Tagore wrote the anthem. But nobody knew who wrote Vande Mataram or Sare Jahaan Se Acha even though everybody sung it.
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Yeah, all syllabi must've included it. I'm talking about the reality though.

5 or 10 years after leaving school, most Indians if asked who wrote the Anthem or Vande Mataram, would in my opinion, have as much of a memory about it as if they were asked to differentiate between the prairies and savannas.
 
RexRex said:
I'm pretty sure they teach in schools there that Tagore wrote the anthem. But nobody knew who wrote Vande Mataram or Sare Jahaan Se Acha even though everybody sung it.
Click to expand...

Everyone knows Tagore wrote national anthem and Bankim wrote Vande Mataram

Thing is Allama Iqbal wrote Saare Jahan Se Achcha when he was Indian nationalist in first half of his career. But in his later life he changed and became a hardcore Islamist and proponent of Partition. And during that phase he said lot of unflattering stuff about Hindus and idol worshippers. No wonder he is no longer taught in India

Just like Gandhi or Nehru is not taught much in Pakistan barring few details. Which is understandable. I think Pakistanis don't understand that your heroes are not necessarily India's heroes and vice versa
 
NishanKonar said:
Everyone knows Tagore wrote national anthem and Bankim wrote Vande Mataram

Thing is Allama Iqbal wrote Saare Jahan Se Achcha when he was Indian nationalist in first half of his career. But in his later life he changed and became a hardcore Islamist and proponent of Partition. And during that phase he said lot of unflattering stuff about Hindus and idol worshippers. No wonder he is no longer taught in India

Just like Gandhi or Nehru is not taught much in Pakistan barring few details. Which is understandable. I think Pakistanis don't understand that your heroes are not necessarily India's heroes and vice versa
Click to expand...

pillionrider said:
Your estimation of the GK quotient of Indians is a bit extreme I believe :apology
Click to expand...

So you are what- Pakistani or an alien? Do you even know what Iqbal said about Hindus when he was advocating partition - why in the world would any self-respecting Indian venerate him?
 
Technics 1210 said:
So to summarise, Saare Jahan Se Achha, is one of the most popular ‘songs’ in Indian schools, and Indian history (past 100 years), one of Gandhi’s favourite when he was in prison, but new age right wing nationalist Indians have no clue about the writer. Amazing, these same Indians will cite the singer and producer of a cheap grade Bollywood tracks, will know the names of key Pakistani officials across the border, will post on Pakistani forums, know the number of cows in existence, but when it comes to anything Islam, they turn a blind eye and pretend like it never happened.

To be honest, this is very much expected in ‘incredible’ India.
Click to expand...

So you are going to mock Hindu beliefs openly and without a care in the world but at the same time expect nothing but respect, admiration and all sorts of noble intentions for your beliefs ? This is the real summary ??!!
 
uppercut said:
So you are going to mock Hindu beliefs openly and without a care in the world but at the same time expect nothing but respect, admiration and all sorts of noble intentions for your beliefs ? This is the real summary ??!!
Click to expand...

Mock Hindu beliefs? There are neither consistent nor core Hindu beliefs. The definition and ideology of Hinduism changes from person to person. Cold hard fact.

Anyway, I am just highlighting the priorities in modern day RSS India. Islamophobia and Bollywood affairs, over history.

:)
 
Technics 1210 said:
False parallel! Don't change the subject, this thread is about Sare Jahaan se Acha, not Pakistan's educational curriculum.

Failing to mention/teach history is not the same as saffron-washing history which India is hell bent on.

And its not Mumbai, it Is Bombay.
Click to expand...

What is good for the goose is also good for the gander.Nobody here is saffronizing history- India has only omitted mentioning a religious extremist who was instrumental in partitioning our nation. And as I mentioned before, this was always the case - no Indian student has ever read about Iqbal in schools.

And FYA - Mumbai was always called so by the native inhabitants of the city (The Koli community and the Pathare Prabhu community) named after the Goddess Mumba Aai who is the guardian goddess of the city and whose temple still towers over the city. Bombay was just a Portuguese/English corruption of the city’s original name. Unlike you guys, we aren’t the one running away from our origins.
 
Mockingbird said:
What is good for the goose is also good for the gander.Nobody here is saffronizing history- India has only omitted mentioning a religious extremist who was instrumental in partitioning our nation. And as I mentioned before, this was always the case - no Indian student has ever read about Iqbal in schools.

And FYA - Mumbai was always called so by the native inhabitants of the city (The Koli community and the Pathare Prabhu community) named after the Goddess Mumba Aai who is the guardian goddess of the city and whose temple still towers over the city. Bombay was just a Portuguese/English corruption of the city’s original name. Unlike you guys, we aren’t the one running away from our origins.
Click to expand...

But you are running away from your origins by saffron washing history.

Islam put India on the map. The British gave India an identity.

Your ilk had a 5000 year head start with India and Hinduism, but despite this, have nothing to show for it. FIVE THOUSAND YEARS!

India remains the only nation in humanity that lost territory while seeking independence.

India is nothing without Islam and the British.

Bombay, Calcutta, Bangalore - these are the relics of India's failure - be proud of your history.
 
Technics 1210 said:
Mock Hindu beliefs? There are neither consistent nor core Hindu beliefs. The definition and ideology of Hinduism changes from person to person. Cold hard fact.

Anyway, I am just highlighting the priorities in modern day RSS India. Islamophobia and Bollywood affairs, over history.

:)
Click to expand...

Neither consistent ?? For something being not consistent you are pretty consistent in mocking it. But expecting total respect for yours or else everyone is an islamaphobe
 
Technics 1210 said:
But you are running away from your origins by saffron washing history.

Islam put India on the map. The British gave India an identity.

Your ilk had a 5000 year head start with India and Hinduism, but despite this, have nothing to show for it. FIVE THOUSAND YEARS!

India remains the only nation in humanity that lost territory while seeking independence.

India is nothing without Islam and the British.

Bombay, Calcutta, Bangalore - these are the relics of India's failure - be proud of your history.
Click to expand...
If Islam was the key to indias success then how come Pakistan did not flourish after partition.
 
Technics 1210 said:
Mock Hindu beliefs? There are neither consistent nor core Hindu beliefs. The definition and ideology of Hinduism changes from person to person. Cold hard fact.
Click to expand...

So which Hindu Holy text does not consider the cow as a sacred being ... can you name some? Just earlier you were quoting Gandhi for point scoring. Might want to start reading up on what Gandhi's position was when it came to Cow's.

Anyway, I am just highlighting the priorities in modern day RSS India. Islamophobia and Bollywood affairs, over history.

:)
Click to expand...

And Iam exposing your blatant bigotry.
 
Technics 1210 said:
But you are running away from your origins by saffron washing history.

Islam put India on the map. The British gave India an identity.

Your ilk had a 5000 year head start with India and Hinduism, but despite this, have nothing to show for it. FIVE THOUSAND YEARS!

India remains the only nation in humanity that lost territory while seeking independence.

India is nothing without Islam and the British.

Bombay, Calcutta, Bangalore - these are the relics of India's failure - be proud of your history.
Click to expand...

India was nothing? We were a prized jewel, a peaceful nation with abundant, fertile lands that had nations were lusting after our resources. And early Islamists were nothing but a bunch of blood-hungry nomads who had nothing of their own and were forced to roam around the dessert for food

We were the reason America was discovered.
The Britishers, Portuguese, French all came to our shores because they wanted to trade with us.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
uppercut said:
So which Hindu Holy text does not consider the cow as a sacred being ... can you name some? Just earlier you were quoting Gandhi for point scoring. Might want to start reading up on what Gandhi's position was when it came to Cow's.
Click to expand...

Your own brethren couldn't name the sacred texts while failing to explain why India is one of the largest exporters of beef in the world.

I quoted Gandhi since RSS saffron terrorists assassinated him, the man who lead India to independence from the British and the ideology you worship, profess, and defend - killed him! Gandhi valued Indian culture which is relevant to this thread, but your ilk worship Godse instead.

You must be an insecure pleb, thinking I am trying to score points, I am simply ridiculing the RSS ideology you defend!

RSS were not even faithful to their own, then what chance does a cow have? And here you are chest thumping over an independent India while celebrating the man who assassinated Gandhi - Godse.

PS: It is cows, not cow's, and I am exposing your sympathy towards Saffron terrorism.
 
Technics 1210 said:
To prove what RSS stands for. You brethren did not fail!
Click to expand...

except my question was about Hindu texts. So what did you conclude based on the handful of responses on an anonymous forum ? That proper RSS folk don't know what are the Hindu sacred texts and therefore we have to resolve this matter on what a cow means in Hinduism using other means ?

Bump the old thread, and stop trying to derail this thread.

:)
Click to expand...

Maybe you should not have brought in the cow topic then ? Trying to find a facing saving exit already ?
 
pillionrider said:
Did you and the RSS sprout a brain recently.

Why have we been singing Sare Jahan Se Accha? And why is it one of the most venerated songs in India?
Click to expand...


Who told you it's a venerated song in India?
Is "Saare jahan se achha" such a bomb in south India as u claim??
 
uppercut said:
except my question was about Hindu texts. So what did you conclude based on the handful of responses on an anonymous forum ? That proper RSS folk don't know what are the Hindu sacred texts and therefore we have to resolve this matter on what a cow means in Hinduism using other means ?



Maybe you should not have brought in the cow topic then ? Trying to find a facing saving exit already ?
Click to expand...
Hahahahaha. He does not know the text. Hence beating around the bush.
 
Don’t remember if it was taught in school who wrote “Saare jahan se acha” or not.
Certainly there was no chapter or any details taught about this guy.

Learned something new today.
 
Even most Pakistanis today don't care about Persian loving Iqbal whose foreign sounding poetry they can't relate too. He wrote his "saare jahan" when the subcontinent was ruled by the British. Later on he changed his mind becoming the instigator of the Pakistan movement. Independent India today has the right to remove him from there books if they want. I see nothing wrong with this at all. In Pak we don't care or honour Gandhi, Bhagat Singh or Nehru either.
 
MenInG said:
Bro you are being sarcastic I think
Click to expand...
No he's not. Iqbal is only seen as important among Urdu speaking Muslims or lovers of Urdu poetry

British Indian history(1857-1947), as it is taught in schools ,focusses very little on individuals in the Muslim League apart from Muhammad Ali Jinnah .


Unless you pursue higher studies in history at the University level, most Indians have zero clue about Iqbal.
 
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