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Indian fans and their general lack of respect for their legends

Slim

Slim

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I will begin this thread by saying that i absolutely admire Dhoni and Kohli as cricketers. They are one of the best and ATGs of the game.

However, there is one thing i have been noticing since the past couple of years. It all began with Dhoni falling out of his prime. When Dhoni smashed Pakistan in the 2007 series and then went on to be the most succesful indian captain; it filled our hearts with respect for him. He was not just popular in Pakistan but his popularity was even mroe than Tendulkar in those days in India. I remember reading articles about how people were crazy to see a glimpse of him.

Moving forward, Kohli announces his arrival on the mainstage. Dhoni starts getting hate and disrespectful comments from indian fans slowly but steadily. His captaincy starts getting questioned. The disrespect goes to such a level that they try to attack his home post WC 2015 semi final. Hes abused, called biased and clueless on daily basis on cricketing forums and social media on the indian side. I remember reading a comment by Mr. Q on this topic. Hes still being disrespected today and people still call for him to be dropped although theres no proper replacement he has been a loyal servant of the game and has won so much for India.

Now, similar stuff is starting for Kohli. KL Rahul, someone, with an average record in ODIs and whose main performance is basically a domestic tournament namely IPL is being called even better than Kohli. Threads are being made across forums on how Kohli is insecure, keeping KL out of the team and should take a supporting role and what not?

How can Indian fans, those who do it, justify such behavior? I have never seen any other cricketing nation do that to their heroes yet every indian cricket goes down being hated by the same fans who chanted their names back in the day? Is it a specific behavioral issue or indian fans just thankless?
 
Slim said:
I will begin this thread by saying that i absolutely admire Dhoni and Kohli as cricketers. They are one of the best and ATGs of the game.

However, there is one thing i have been noticing since the past couple of years. It all began with Dhoni falling out of his prime. When Dhoni smashed Pakistan in the 2007 series and then went on to be the most succesful indian captain; it filled our hearts with respect for him. He was not just popular in Pakistan but his popularity was even mroe than Tendulkar in those days in India. I remember reading articles about how people were crazy to see a glimpse of him.

Moving forward, Kohli announces his arrival on the mainstage. Dhoni starts getting hate and disrespectful comments from indian fans slowly but steadily. His captaincy starts getting questioned. The disrespect goes to such a level that they try to attack his home post WC 2015 semi final. Hes abused, called biased and clueless on daily basis on cricketing forums and social media on the indian side. I remember reading a comment by Mr. Q on this topic. Hes still being disrespected today and people still call for him to be dropped although theres no proper replacement he has been a loyal servant of the game and has won so much for India.

Now, similar stuff is starting for Kohli. KL Rahul, someone, with an average record in ODIs and whose main performance is basically a domestic tournament namely IPL is being called even better than Kohli. Threads are being made across forums on how Kohli is insecure, keeping KL out of the team and should take a supporting role and what not?

How can Indian fans, those who do it, justify such behavior? I have never seen any other cricketing nation do that to their heroes yet every indian cricket goes down being hated by the same fans who chanted their names back in the day? Is it a specific behavioral issue or indian fans just thankless?
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Crab mentality comes standard for many Indians. Forget MSD and Kohli - even Tendulkar is not spared.
 
Yeah, I notice this with Dhoni.

His prime was unbelievable and he won them both WCs (T20I and ODI). Not to mention the countless clutch performances in big games.

All of this while being captain, playing a ridiculous amount of games, and being a wicketkeeper.

The amount of disrespect he's received after slipping away is absurd.
 
There will always be some strange people when you have hundreds of millions of Indians watching cricket. But Sachin, Dhoni, and Kohli are all widely popular and respected for the most part.

As for the threads on here about Rahul surpassing Kohli, I suggest you ignore anything "bhaijaan" says.
 
I think we as sub continent fans are too judgemental and tend to have a short term memory. But Indian fans are more extreme i must say. May be they are more passionate or take a win or a loss too seriously i dont know.
 
Every Tom Dick and Harry accepts that the contribution made by MS Dhoni towards Indian cricket is immense and invaluable. And we all respect him for such magical efforts. He is a legendary captain and I dont recall anyone devaluing MS Dhoni's captaincy skills ever, particularly in limited overs format.

However, he has went way too downhill and felt should have retired two years ago. It would have been a huge pleasure watching him call it off on a high note rather than continuing playing even though his contributions have been minimal towards the game in the last few years.

The simple rule of sports is " A player should play the game as long as he contributes towards the game and once he is completely done as a player, he should pass over the mantle to the younger generation."

The dislike towards MS Dhoni is because of two things:-

1) He is hurting his legacy by losing India plenty of ODI matches due to inability of quick-scoring.

2) He is blocking the progress of an younger player who could have established himself as a top player by now.

The day MS Dhoni retires, I can assure you, same fans will come up first and sing millions of praises of how he changed the whole dynamic of Indian cricket and taught us how to handle pressure and win big games. But as long as he continues performing poorly, he has to face the music. There is no way of running out from it.

Life has simple meaning:- " You will be loved and respected as long as you deserve to be one."
 
Sachin and Kohli is not hated by any Indian fan except maybe if you find some fluke trolls.

A little dislike comes up on few people because of Sachinistas insecurity towards their idol but I dont recall anyone except across the border hating SRT as a player. Ofcourse, whatever hate is there for him outside India is because of the fact that their fans cant hear anything bad about their player and always come up to defend.
 
Majority of the criticisms are legit. Dhoni despite his amazing ODI exploits he was an average T20 batsman for the best of his career. Reason is simple. He needs substantial amount of time at the crease before he exploded. He used to explode from the get go. After he became the captain he decided to play percentage cricket. It became part of his cricket so much so that he just could not give up that habit in T20 for the best part of his career. Only in this IPL he played like the Dhoni we knew in 2005/06. He has poor strike rate in T20 for a late order batsman. Even in the IPL his performance was up and down. India produces number of talented players. So it is only fair to expect senior player who is past his prime to assess his career. In my view Dhoni is part of T20 for 2 things. He is still the best wicket keeper in limited over for India. Another thing is he is Kohli's proxy captain. His consolidation technique in T20 never worked. Will never work.
 
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Most of these Indians are basically Jealous .... yessss ..... so the badmouthing comes to them naturally and these forums are a great place to do it !!!! Simple as that !!!!
 
I don't agree to this thread. Say a word against Tendulkar or Kohli and then prepare for the reaction. Indian and Bangladeshi are the most loyal fans of their cricket teams. Pakistanis are the worst.
 
On one hand, Pakistani fans will criticize the seniority culture in the system and on the other hand, op is a prime example calling others, "why don't you respect the seniors?"

Is there a difference between the two? I agree, there is. Giving respect to the great players and this seniority culture are different entities.

But desi players often misuse this intentionally or unintentionally. It creates an influence in the team to the point where, due to one player, the whole team could be unstable.

.... And no one is above the team, above the nation however great he is. Not even tendulkar.

If a moment comes when there's conflict of interest between the team and the player, that player will be heavily criticized.

It doesn't depend upon how much contribution he made in the past. You served the nation, great! We appreciate you but its time to move on for the sake of the nation and the team.

Playing team India is a privilege, not a right based upon past.

People do not have short term memory. People want the team in best possible combination and eradicate this seniority culture.
 
OP for starters calm down the hyperbole, calling someone out for what were universally agreed on as bad decisions is neither hate nor disrespect it's common sense. You might want people treated as gods most others don't.

Indian cricketers have nothing to complain about how they are treated, when they perform well they are treated as greatest people alive, so don't moan when they criticize in similar ways when you don't perform. It's basic quid pro quo you get what you earn.
 
Very good thread. I have also noticed the same thing. It's sad how both of them are being treated on social media, although I wonder what the general population in India thinks of them. I'd be forever grateful if either of them played for Pakistan.
 
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Abdul said:
Very good thread. I have also noticed the same thing. It's sad how both of them are being treated on social media, although I wonder what the general population in India thinks of them. I'd be forever grateful if either of them played for Pakistan.
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That is a whole different scene. Dhoni is revered by 99% of Indian fans. It is a fact. His critics are few and far between. Recent IPL was the example. Wherever he goes it was his home ground even though he played for CSK. Only hardcore cricket fans who are loitering in cricket forums put them under microscope. These are not your run of the mill fan boys.

It is simple Fans of cricket forums is not reflection of General population.
 
It’s not disrespect but honest and fair criticism. When you grow into a great sporting nation in any sport and have abundance of talent sitting on the bench and waiting for their turn then you will go hard at anyone stealing someone’s deserved spot.

Rahul’s emergence has put pressure on Sharma, Dhawan and suddenly Rahane is even out of picture.

Then there is Rishabh Pant waiting to take a middle order position. It is great if pressure on the middle order.

Karthik is going through a dream run. So MSD has to earn his place as a normal player forgetting everything he’s achieved in he past.
 
I have seen plenty of times Pakistan fans abusing Misbah for his poor form, forgetting his immense contribution to Pakistan cricket especially during the match fixing crisis. OP is just looking for some attention here.

As someone pointed out, seniority culture is well rooted within the desi people and hence you see a lot of abuse of power in our system. This is what the most of the people are against. There is no suitable replacement for Dhoni? Try again.
 
Some posters make it seem like there are dozens of batsmen competing for each batting position in India. I mean, you can't just drop all the players you have and disregard their past performances. Players like Sarafaraz Khan and Pant are extremely young and should still be given time to mature properly before putting them up against the Starc's and Amir's of the world.
 
Sachin136 said:
There will always be some strange people when you have hundreds of millions of Indians watching cricket. But Sachin, Dhoni, and Kohli are all widely popular and respected for the most part.

As for the threads on here about Rahul surpassing Kohli, I suggest you ignore anything "bhaijaan" says.
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This has actually nothing to do with the bhaijaan's thread. I am not talking about such issues in the realms of PP. Social media and other cricketing forums are more telling where Indians are much more violent ( in terms of their words) against the likes of Kohli and Dhoni (especially).
 
Balthazar said:
I have seen plenty of times Pakistan fans abusing Misbah for his poor form, forgetting his immense contribution to Pakistan cricket especially during the match fixing crisis. OP is just looking for some attention here.

As someone pointed out, seniority culture is well rooted within the desi people and hence you see a lot of abuse of power in our system. This is what the most of the people are against. There is no suitable replacement for Dhoni? Try again.
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You are the same guy who is saying that KL Rahul is better than Kohli in the other thread so kindly spare me the patronizing tone. This thread was made to highlight your kind.

Misbah deserved all the criticism and he is not a legend by any means. He was a good player and end off. Legend is someone like Imran Khan, Wasim Akram, Waqar, Younis etc.
 
The_Odd_One said:
I don't agree to this thread. Say a word against Tendulkar or Kohli and then prepare for the reaction. Indian and Bangladeshi are the most loyal fans of their cricket teams. Pakistanis are the worst.
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Yeah, try saying anything against IK.

The stars are revered by all desis.

Now no one can or in the right mind would defend an Umar Akmal or a Shehzad. Same goes with defending a Rayudu or even medium achievers such as a Murali Vijay.

By the way, Indian fans can also be the most ruthless when it comes to criticising or ridiculing a player. Ravindra Jadeja is still a meme.
 
Itachi said:
On one hand, Pakistani fans will criticize the seniority culture in the system and on the other hand, op is a prime example calling others, "why don't you respect the seniors?"

Is there a difference between the two? I agree, there is. Giving respect to the great players and this seniority culture are different entities.

But desi players often misuse this intentionally or unintentionally. It creates an influence in the team to the point where, due to one player, the whole team could be unstable.

.... And no one is above the team, above the nation however great he is. Not even tendulkar.

If a moment comes when there's conflict of interest between the team and the player, that player will be heavily criticized.

It doesn't depend upon how much contribution he made in the past. You served the nation, great! We appreciate you but its time to move on for the sake of the nation and the team.

Playing team India is a privilege, not a right based upon past.

People do not have short term memory. People want the team in best possible combination and eradicate this seniority culture.
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This has nothing to do with seniority culture but more to do with how when a player goes he is remembered.

People still make fun of Sachin for his selfish final hundred against Bangladesh. I never took Sachin seriously so i cannot make more comments on that. He probably gets a lot of hate due to his supremely annoying fans. However, players like Dhoni and Kohli especially are not over the hill and therefore seniority logic doesn't applies to them.

An example of over the hill player would be Hafeez who gets his due criticism from all quarters.
 
BreadPakoda said:
Yeah, try saying anything against IK.

The stars are revered by all desis.

Now no one can or in the right mind would defend an Umar Akmal or a Shehzad. Same goes with defending a Rayudu or even medium achievers such as a Murali Vijay.

By the way, Indian fans can also be the most ruthless when it comes to criticising or ridiculing a player. Ravindra Jadeja is still a meme.
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Pakistani fans would never attack their cricketers homes.
 
Ab Fan said:
Younis khan??
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Apart from one guy from Peshawar who seems to be a mental case. I havent seen anyone criticize him. And definitely have never seen a Pakistani fan claim that Azhar or Shafiq or Babar are better than YK unlike how its with KL Rahul and Kohli.

Stop trying to deflect please.
 
I don't think there's any disrespect for either Dhoni or Kohli. Everybody respects what they have accomplished in the past. But surely that does not mean that they have been granted lifelong immunity to fair criticism. Kapil Dev may have won the 83 World Cup but he is rightly criticised in some quarters for extending his career till 1994 when he was well past it and for lobbying for his favourites in the team. Gavaskar for not knowing how to bat in LOI's, Dhoni for being extremely selfish in recent years for extending his career when he is no longer the best wk/batsman in the country. Kohli for making stupid selection/captaincy choices. There's nothing wrong with that. It's what keeps the standards of your cricket high. Else you will have mediocre cricketers with 20 year careers with real talents being buried in the dust. :sa
 
What is this thread on about!?

We respect all three of Sachin, Dhoni and Kohli.
 
Apart from a few trolls I don’t think anyone disrespects Dhoni or Kohli or any other players.

I agree that they are heavily criticised and rightly so.

Dhoni was the first captain who initiated to getting rid of uncles from LOI teams. Also the kind of player he used to be- an explosive middle order batsman, a finisher, a cool captain, a very good wicket keeper. It was like breathing fresh air after a very long long time. But now he is ruining his own legacy. He is doing the very same thing. Being stuck with the team even after continued mediocrity. ODIs , i can still understand but T20s. Thats very selfish of him.

For Kohli, Don’t think anybody has any issues the player Kohli. Its the captain Kohli who is criticised for being clueless when things are not in favour , selecting his favourites in the team over deserving one.

One thing is sure. We as fans (majority) have moved away from God culture. If the legends keep repeating their mistakes then they are bound to be criticised. If someone sees this as disrespectful then be it.
 
Very good thread [MENTION=146948]Slim[/MENTION]. Some people here probably don’t understand that cricket is a sport. I agree there were some poor selections but the manner in which they insult some players is really embarrassing. Things have reached a stage where people are putting Dhoni and Jadhav in the same league. Maybe it’s the over-enthusiasm of the fans here. It’s justified if we have a proper replacement for Dhoni waiting in the wings, but we don’t. This behaviour is limited to this forum only. MSD is still almost as popular as Kohli on the streets.

Pakistani fans aren’t far behind though. I’ve seen you guys making some very objectionable comments about players trying to get back to your team (although they’re no legends). We have to understand that every guy is fighting for a place in the team and all of us would have done the same if we were in their shoes.

And Indians shouldn’t expect the team management to bring in untested youngsters like Pakistan is doing right now. They’re trying to build a new team and are happy with the ‘unpredictable’ tag. We already have a good team and are trying to make it better.
 
AssassinatedDevil said:
Some posters make it seem like there are dozens of batsmen competing for each batting position in India. I mean, you can't just drop all the players you have and disregard their past performances. Players like Sarafaraz Khan and Pant are extremely young and should still be given time to mature properly before putting them up against the Starc's and Amir's of the world.
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Wait what? Who ever spoke about sarfaraz Khan of India? The guy can't find a place in state side nor in IPL playing xi, who wud in right mind ever talk about getting him an Indian berth. He's a joke of a player, had a good run during under 19 days, thanks to the forged birth certificate.
 
I have nothing against this Thread or OP. The OP did make some fair points about how some of our Indian brothers are overhyping KL soon after some T20 performances. But I will not agree to one statement the OP made, i.e. " I have never seen any other cricketing nation do that to their heroes". Are you serious about this? I have seen a ton of Pak posters creating threads on Sarfaraz being the worst captain and you guys bump this thread everyday. Isn't he the one who's responsible for a lot of Wins in the recent times? what about the threads on Inzamam, Misbah, Waqar, Akram, Babar, Aamir and recently on Hasan Ali? Aren't you guys trolling and devaluing their contribution with these troll threads and questioning their place everytime these guys fail to perform ? And you say "no other nation"? Come on mate! Be fair here! The very 1st page of this Forum is filled with a ton of threads on Sarfaraz's fitness, questioning his place in the team, questing his wicketkeeping skills, his captaincy and after yesterday Win against Aus, the same guys start applauding him and calling him the great captain and No.1 Team. First start respecting your own players and nation before passing on statements on other nations.
 
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Mr.Q said:
Very good thread [MENTION=146948]Slim[/MENTION]. Some people here probably don’t understand that cricket is a sport. I agree there were some poor selections but the manner in which they insult some players is really embarrassing. Things have reached a stage where people are putting Dhoni and Jadhav in the same league. Maybe it’s the over-enthusiasm of the fans here. It’s justified if we have a proper replacement for Dhoni waiting in the wings, but we don’t. This behaviour is limited to this forum only. MSD is still almost as popular as Kohli on the streets.

Pakistani fans aren’t far behind though. I’ve seen you guys making some very objectionable comments about players trying to get back to your team (although they’re no legends). We have to understand that every guy is fighting for a place in the team and all of us would have done the same if we were in their shoes.

And Indians shouldn’t expect the team management to bring in untested youngsters like Pakistan is doing right now. They’re trying to build a new team and are happy with the ‘unpredictable’ tag. We already have a good team and are trying to make it better.
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Which street is this? other than the most ardent dhoni fans, most fans want dhoni gone because he isn't good enough anymore.

Also was Dhoni a readymade replacement when he was picked? there is no readymade replacement for anything, you pick your most likely player and give him a chance, Tendulkar, Dravid, Dhoni or Virat did not become the players they were at peak before they were actually selected, so why exactly is this criteria for Dhoni's replacement?
 
jagatk said:
Which street is this? other than the most ardent dhoni fans, most fans want dhoni gone because he isn't good enough anymore.

Also was Dhoni a readymade replacement when he was picked? there is no readymade replacement for anything, you pick your most likely player and give him a chance, Tendulkar, Dravid, Dhoni or Virat did not become the players they were at peak before they were actually selected, so why exactly is this criteria for Dhoni's replacement?
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Do you live in India? Dhoni is still very popular here and for good reasons.

You don’t need a readymade replacement but you need a replacement that’s showing some promise. We can’t drop a player like Dhoni just to test some young players. Youngsters will get their chances when he’s rested. If they show some promise they’ll then be included in the squad for future tours. Rishabh Pant was given a couple of chances and he didn’t impress anyone. Sanju Samson will get an opportunity soon. Let’s see how he does. Dhoni is not just a wicketkeeper batsman but a mentor too to all the members in the team including Kohli.

Tendulkar, Dravid, Dhoni, Virat etc were selected because of the immense potential they showed. It was difficult to not select them. I don’t see any wicket keeper batsman in domestic circuits who is making the lives of the selectors difficult. Dhoni should retire soon, and he will. I’d like to see him play till the 2019 WC. His leadership skills will be useful for us in such a big tournament. And if he can bat like he did in the IPL...

You guys just want to kick him out, which won’t happen because the management aren’t a bunch of robots working on probability.
 
Its a classic case of Sharma ji ka ladka being under performance pressure always because Sharma is the highest ranked caste in India and they are always expected to achieve great things.

I am myself a proud Sharma and i know what this pressure means. I thrive in this pressure so do the Indian players. They are used to this sort of pressure to deliver in every game they play.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
I don't think there's any disrespect for either Dhoni or Kohli. Everybody respects what they have accomplished in the past. But surely that does not mean that they have been granted lifelong immunity to fair criticism. Kapil Dev may have won the 83 World Cup but he is rightly criticised in some quarters for extending his career till 1994 when he was well past it and for lobbying for his favourites in the team. Gavaskar for not knowing how to bat in LOI's, Dhoni for being extremely selfish in recent years for extending his career when he is no longer the best wk/batsman in the country. Kohli for making stupid selection/captaincy choices. There's nothing wrong with that. It's what keeps the standards of your cricket high. Else you will have mediocre cricketers with 20 year careers with real talents being buried in the dust. :sa
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Please refrain from using Lala starman emoji in jest.
 
Subcontinent fans in general aren't always respectful to legends. If they are out of form or fail in a big game fans are very quick to turn against them.
 
jagatk said:
Which street is this? other than the most ardent dhoni fans, most fans want dhoni gone because he isn't good enough anymore.

Also was Dhoni a readymade replacement when he was picked? there is no readymade replacement for anything, you pick your most likely player and give him a chance, Tendulkar, Dravid, Dhoni or Virat did not become the players they were at peak before they were actually selected, so why exactly is this criteria for Dhoni's replacement?
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Which street is this?
Man almost every street, dhoni is loved much more than virat and has more fans than him in india.
The condition is that even after being an atg
I call him overrated cos of millions of Msdians hyping him as our best player ever(even better than sachin).
 
Mr.Q said:
Do you live in India? Dhoni is still very popular here and for good reasons.

You don’t need a readymade replacement but you need a replacement that’s showing some promise. We can’t drop a player like Dhoni just to test some young players. Youngsters will get their chances when he’s rested. If they show some promise they’ll then be included in the squad for future tours. Rishabh Pant was given a couple of chances and he didn’t impress anyone. Sanju Samson will get an opportunity soon. Let’s see how he does. Dhoni is not just a wicketkeeper batsman but a mentor too to all the members in the team including Kohli.

Tendulkar, Dravid, Dhoni, Virat etc were selected because of the immense potential they showed. It was difficult to not select them. I don’t see any wicket keeper batsman in domestic circuits who is making the lives of the selectors difficult. Dhoni should retire soon, and he will. I’d like to see him play till the 2019 WC. His leadership skills will be useful for us in such a big tournament. And if he can bat like he did in the IPL...

You guys just want to kick him out, which won’t happen because the management aren’t a bunch of robots working on probability.
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I live in india. Tendulkar is still very popular too don't think anyone wants to get him back though. There is a difference between being popular and liked and being wanted in the team.

If couple of chances is what to go by then Dhoni should never have had a career. And he is not a mentor, he is basically a training wheel for Kohli, which would have been fine if we had an invincible batting lineup but we don't a wkb who can't bat well should not be picked and that is an opinion that is held by most Indian fans. But since we have a captain who can't actually captain and has too fragile an ego to be questioned like kumble most likely did, we are where we are.

Dhoni was not some hotshot player when he got picked on great potential, they took a chance on him and it worked out. Pant averages above 50 in first class, had a wonderful ipl but apparently that is not enough, not because Dhoni is better but because his captain likes him. Which is why poor karthik can't get into the team after dazzling displays.
 
jagatk said:
Which street is this? other than the most ardent dhoni fans, most fans want dhoni gone because he isn't good enough anymore.
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I don't think we can say that especially when Dhoni has people chanting his name whenever he comes out to bat in any stadium in India. He's almost become Tendulkar-esque in that regard. Not even Kohli gets that kind of reactions, but it's probably also because Kohli has many years ahead of him whereas people know that Dhoni is going to retire soon and they won't get to see a lot of him.

I think people are vocal on social media as they always are but in general fans in India are still crazy about Dhoni. The fan culture in India is actually the opposite of what [MENTION=146948]Slim[/MENTION] says in that Indians worship their legends, and it's not always for the better.
 
jeeteshssaxena said:
Which street is this?
Man almost every street, dhoni is loved much more than virat and has more fans than him in india.
The condition is that even after being an atg
I call him overrated cos of millions of Msdians hyping him as our best player ever(even better than sachin).
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TNAmarkFromIndia said:
I don't think we can say that especially when Dhoni has people chanting his name whenever he comes out to bat in any stadium in India. He's almost become Tendulkar-esque in that regard. Not even Kohli gets that kind of reactions, but it's probably also because Kohli has many years ahead of him whereas people know that Dhoni is going to retire soon and they won't get to see a lot of him.

I think people are vocal on social media as they always are but in general fans in India are still crazy about Dhoni. The fan culture in India is actually the opposite of what [MENTION=146948]Slim[/MENTION] says in that Indians worship their legends, and it's not always for the better.
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What i am talking about is equating his popularity with him being wanted in the team, most i know want him to retire but have giveup hope of seeing him go before the WC but still like him as a player.
 
Silly thread, Indian fans have high expectations, high standards, they demand more from the team. And that very right, these players earn lots of money, love from fans when doing good, so obviously they need to face heavy criticism if bad form.
 
jagatk said:
I live in india. Tendulkar is still very popular too don't think anyone wants to get him back though. There is a difference between being popular and liked and being wanted in the team.

If couple of chances is what to go by then Dhoni should never have had a career. And he is not a mentor, he is basically a training wheel for Kohli, which would have been fine if we had an invincible batting lineup but we don't a wkb who can't bat well should not be picked and that is an opinion that is held by most Indian fans. But since we have a captain who can't actually captain and has too fragile an ego to be questioned like kumble most likely did, we are where we are.

Dhoni was not some hotshot player when he got picked on great potential, they took a chance on him and it worked out. Pant averages above 50 in first class, had a wonderful ipl but apparently that is not enough, not because Dhoni is better but because his captain likes him. Which is why poor karthik can't get into the team after dazzling displays.
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Pant is nowhere near as good as Dhoni as a batsman or a wk. I saw him bat in the Nidahas Trophy. He was throwing his bat around like a clueless kid. Dhoni had a very good IPL too. His captaincy skills and experience are helping us. I agree, his performance as a batsman should improve but we haven’t seen him bat much after the IPL.

Btw, I wasn’t talking about Dhoni’s performance or reluctance to retire. Different people would have different opinions on it. I was only talking about the comments made by some people. Some very offensive ones. He’s the most successful captain in the history of Indian cricket and still is a very good player. Some of you guys talk as if he stole your treasure.
 
Slim said:
This has nothing to do with seniority culture but more to do with how when a player goes he is remembered.

People still make fun of Sachin for his selfish final hundred against Bangladesh. I never took Sachin seriously so i cannot make more comments on that. He probably gets a lot of hate due to his supremely annoying fans. However, players like Dhoni and Kohli especially are not over the hill and therefore seniority logic doesn't applies to them.

An example of over the hill player would be Hafeez who gets his due criticism from all quarters.
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You clearly failed to understand the very point I made.
 
Mr.Q said:
Pant is nowhere near as good as Dhoni as a batsman or a wk. I saw him bat in the Nidahas Trophy. He was throwing his bat around like a clueless kid. Dhoni had a very good IPL too. His captaincy skills and experience are helping us. I agree, his performance as a batsman should improve but we haven’t seen him bat much after the IPL.

Btw, I wasn’t talking about Dhoni’s performance or reluctance to retire. Different people would have different opinions on it. I was only talking about the comments made by some people. Some very offensive ones. He’s the most successful captain in the history of Indian cricket and still is a very good player. Some of you guys talk as if he stole your treasure.
Click to expand...

Again my friend, if few games are to go by Dhoni would never have made it. Iirc Pant had a better ipl than Dhoni. Also we have seen dhoni bat before ipl and it isn't anything to look forward to, dhoni right now is a stat padder. He takes 20 balls at death to get set and score 10 off it before hitting 20 of next 10-15 to make it look like he did his job on the score card. But if you watched the game you know his batting cost runs to the team.

I don't like the current dhoni, but if any one thinks he isn't our best LoI captain of all time and can't acknowledge what he has done for the team then they are stupid, but i still want him gone and he is costing us a treasure. This team unless Rahul has kohli esque next 2 years is in trouble batting wise. We can actually win the worldcup but carrying a pandya and a dhoni is a sureshot way to failure.
 
Slim said:
I will begin this thread by saying that i absolutely admire Dhoni and Kohli as cricketers. They are one of the best and ATGs of the game.

However, there is one thing i have been noticing since the past couple of years. It all began with Dhoni falling out of his prime. When Dhoni smashed Pakistan in the 2007 series and then went on to be the most succesful indian captain; it filled our hearts with respect for him. He was not just popular in Pakistan but his popularity was even mroe than Tendulkar in those days in India. I remember reading articles about how people were crazy to see a glimpse of him.

Moving forward, Kohli announces his arrival on the mainstage. Dhoni starts getting hate and disrespectful comments from indian fans slowly but steadily. His captaincy starts getting questioned. The disrespect goes to such a level that they try to attack his home post WC 2015 semi final. Hes abused, called biased and clueless on daily basis on cricketing forums and social media on the indian side. I remember reading a comment by Mr. Q on this topic. Hes still being disrespected today and people still call for him to be dropped although theres no proper replacement he has been a loyal servant of the game and has won so much for India.
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One can be objective about Kohli. His plus points are he is a great batsman and very aggressive on the field (which can sometimes be a minus). However there is no reason to ignore his shortcomings as a captain. His choice of playing two spinners over Umesh Yadav in CT final, and his team selection for SA cost India.

Overall one can be very appreciative of Kohli while also pointing out his failures when they happen. That is a reasonable thing. To do otherwise is "hero worship", which is not healthy. For ten good things said about Kohli it is okay to have a couple of criticisms of his captaincy. That should also help him improve.

Now, similar stuff is starting for Kohli. KL Rahul, someone, with an average record in ODIs and whose main performance is basically a domestic tournament namely IPL is being called even better than Kohli. Threads are being made across forums on how Kohli is insecure, keeping KL out of the team and should take a supporting role and what not?
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Domestic tournament IPL? All the best players in the world except from Pakistan play in the IPL. Not something that can be said for many international games.

It is okay to point out that at this point in time Rahul is outperforming Kohli, it does not make Rahul a greater batsman. It is good to be honest, both in praise and criticism.


How can Indian fans, those who do it, justify such behavior? I have never seen any other cricketing nation do that to their heroes yet every indian cricket goes down being hated by the same fans who chanted their names back in the day? Is it a specific behavioral issue or indian fans just thankless?
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This is hardly unique for Indians. For example, English and Australian media is mostly honest about their assessment of players, both positive and negative.
 
BreadPakoda said:
Yeah, try saying anything against IK.

The stars are revered by all desis.

Now no one can or in the right mind would defend an Umar Akmal or a Shehzad. Same goes with defending a Rayudu or even medium achievers such as a Murali Vijay.

By the way, Indian fans can also be the most ruthless when it comes to criticising or ridiculing a player. Ravindra Jadeja is still a meme.
Click to expand...

IK's popularity among Pakistani fans is not the same as Tendulkar's among Indians. Some even rate Wasim a better bowler.

I have seen it with my own eyes how incredibly popular Tendulkar is among Indians even after his retirement. They cheered his every run and every time he fielded in the all stars match.
 
Mr.Q said:
Do you live in India? Dhoni is still very popular here and for good reasons.

You don’t need a readymade replacement but you need a replacement that’s showing some promise. We can’t drop a player like Dhoni just to test some young players. Youngsters will get their chances when he’s rested. If they show some promise they’ll then be included in the squad for future tours. Rishabh Pant was given a couple of chances and he didn’t impress anyone. Sanju Samson will get an opportunity soon. Let’s see how he does. Dhoni is not just a wicketkeeper batsman but a mentor too to all the members in the team including Kohli.

Tendulkar, Dravid, Dhoni, Virat etc were selected because of the immense potential they showed. It was difficult to not select them. I don’t see any wicket keeper batsman in domestic circuits who is making the lives of the selectors difficult. Dhoni should retire soon, and he will. I’d like to see him play till the 2019 WC. His leadership skills will be useful for us in such a big tournament. And if he can bat like he did in the IPL...

You guys just want to kick him out, which won’t happen because the management aren’t a bunch of robots working on probability.
Click to expand...

Some very fair points raised by you. Though I do think that Pant has not been given sufficient number of chances to make a judgement on him. At least for tests, we should start looking beyond Saha and start giving opportunities to Pant sometime next year - probably after the Aus tour. Or even add Pant as Saha‘s understudy for the Aus tour.

As for Dhoni remaining in the team will WC19, I think that’s a good Choice. Kohli aint tactically astute as Dhoni and having Dhoni surely helps. Also, a top 4 of Dhawan, Rohit, Kohli and Rahul is possibly best top 4in the world.

With Raina at 6, and Pandya at 7 should allow us enough freedom to play Dhoni at 5. The only thing that would make our batting stronger, is if we could find a decent spin AR, who could be effective like Chahal, but a better bat, but I doubt we have anyone (Krunal does not give me confidence with the ball).

So, yes, our batting could be stronger, but the above batting with Chahal, Kuldeep, Bhuvi and Bumrah is a pretty solid team with balanced batting and bowling. Replacing Dhoni with Pant, could make the batting stronger, but might impact the overall team.
 
Dhoni's innings unfolding just as I predicted it will. This man needs to go.
 
Dhoni was called buddha, over the hill, selfish by indian fans again today yet he saved their batting line ups face.
 
They don't have big hearts like we do:sendoff Seriously, they do respect their legends like Teenda but live more in the present where as us Pak fans still go on about Imran, Wasim and Waqar.
 
People don't really understand how important a role this legends play even when they are on their way out.
The experience, the cushion, the knowledge they have to share with the younger lot is invaluable. Kohli wouldn't be kohli without playing and being around with the little master.
Dhoni is still the best wicket-keeper in the world and if kohli can pick half of his cricketing brain it will do indian Cricket good 🙏🙏
Same goes for KL Rahul.. He needs Kohli as a cushion to be able to express freely in the batting line-up.
Fans are too ungrateful
 
Slim said:
Dhoni was called buddha, over the hill, selfish by indian fans again today yet he saved their batting line ups face.
Click to expand...
How did dhoni save face? Did he play a match winning innings? Pitch had nothing in it. Just a mini collapse. Once he got it under control he should have changed his gear. Instead we get the typical dhoni who will only score in the final over. Till then his strike rate was pathetic.
 
Dhoni getting so much hate today :facepalm:

What about all the other failures in the middle-order? This loss is on them.
 
Abdullah719 said:
Dhoni getting so much hate today :facepalm:

What about all the other failures in the middle-order? This loss is on them.
Click to expand...

Only the new rockstars are free from all sin. The older rockstars are bali kei bakray.
 
Abdullah719 said:
Dhoni getting so much hate today :facepalm:

What about all the other failures in the middle-order? This loss is on them.
Click to expand...

Problem is the lack of intent on dhoni's part. Playing at strike rate of 50 when the asking rate is around 10 is going to create hatred for him.
 
jeeteshssaxena said:
In terms of what batting talents pakistan had at that time he was a legend (also pak's captain).
Click to expand...

Irrespective of what angle you are trying to get at, whatever disrespect has been meted out by the Indian fans is not match-able and even you cannot deny that. Not only that but Indian fans have been consistent in terms of their disrespectful behavior whereas Misbah who was just a mediocre player with not a single century in ODIs is a rare example.
 
[MENTION=146948]Slim[/MENTION] if you're so much worried about the disrespect bring shown to Dhoni you can have him and show him all the respect you want.
 
Rahul1 said:
[MENTION=146948]Slim[/MENTION] if you're so much worried about the disrespect bring shown to Dhoni you can have him and show him all the respect you want.
Click to expand...

Would be lucky to have Dhoni in our squad.
 
It’s just because of indian fans that Dhoni is still in the team.. This worshipping of superstars in India is the reason of why we don’t grow as a nation.. it is not limited to just cricket but every aspect of life..

Dhoni needs to be dropped, he has overstayed his welcome by 2 years and has cost us the 2019 World Cup.. there is no way we will win the World Cup now with Dhoni ad keeper and raina in team..
 
Just because you have achieved a lot for your team does not give you the right to be free of criticism. That's such a desi mentality.

If Dhoni was struggling with the form, that's not a problem. It happens to everyone. I think most of the Indian posters are angry about the fact that he did not try a single big hit. He was content with blocking and taking singles. The only time he tried to hit a 6, he got out.
 
Abdullah719 said:
Dhoni getting so much hate today :facepalm:

What about all the other failures in the middle-order? This loss is on them.
Click to expand...

Look, it is not the first time. I can memorize many many instances when he has lost India matches. This has been a case for around 3-4 years.

As far as middle order is concerned, see Jadhav flopped- he was shown the door, let Raina flop a bit more, he will be shown the door as well. He was shown door once in 2015 itself. Heck even Dhawan has been shown door at times even though he was the player of tournament in CT2013. Rahane has been said, "goodbye".

When middle order fails, the action is taken over them and rightly so. Dhoni is a legend and he deserves several chances more which he has already got but now it has become way too many.
 
The_Odd_One said:
Just because you have achieved a lot for your team does not give you the right to be free of criticism. That's such a desi mentality.

If Dhoni was struggling with the form, that's not a problem. It happens to everyone. I think most of the Indian posters are angry about the fact that he did not try a single big hit. He was content with blocking and taking singles. The only time he tried to hit a 6, he got out.
Click to expand...

Nicely put up and this is not like a rare instance anymore. It has happened time and again. Many many instances in last 4 years. He just isn't showing any intent.
 
Ab Fan said:
Look, it is not the first time. I can memorize many many instances when he has lost India matches. This has been a case for around 3-4 years.

As far as middle order is concerned, see Jadhav flopped- he was shown the door, let Raina flop a bit more, he will be shown the door as well. He was shown door once in 2015 itself. Heck even Dhawan has been shown door at times even though he was the player of tournament in CT2013. Rahane has been said, "goodbye".

When middle order fails, the action is taken over them and rightly so. Dhoni is a legend and he deserves several chances more which he has already got but now it has become way too many.
Click to expand...

To be honest I just wanted to bump this thread, that's all. :msd

Agree that he needs to call it a day. Soon.
 
So today Kohli is the target of the Indian fans. The guy who has given so much as a player and as a captain as well.

The same guy who won India their first series in South Africa is being told that he should be laid off of captaincy based on couple of matches. This is disrespect of the highest order. Difficult to understand the mental state of Indian fans - fickle to the extreme.
 
Tend to find that Pakistani and Indian fans are the harshest and the hardest to please.

With many of them, a player is only as good as his last performance.
 
Saj said:
Tend to find that Pakistani and Indian fans are the harshest and the hardest to please.

With many of them, a player is only as good as his last performance.
Click to expand...

Fickle - word to describe both Pakistani and Indian fans.

However, this is something that should be highlighted to improve this behavior. From booing Dhoni to abusing Kohli and calling him jealous, selfish and unfit for captaincy; Indian fans have been on a rampage this English tour.
 
So it is yet again the likes of Kohli who save the izzat of the Indian fans whereas they would rather put their bets on the likes of failures like KL Rahul, Sanju samson etc.
 
Slim said:
So it is yet again the likes of Kohli who save the izzat of the Indian fans whereas they would rather put their bets on the likes of failures like KL Rahul, Sanju samson etc.
Click to expand...

What's sanju Samson's fault here?
 
Tusker said:
Crab mentality comes standard for many Indians. Forget MSD and Kohli - even Tendulkar is not spared.
Click to expand...
I actually have a lot more respect for Kohli and Dhoni than Tendulkar.

Those two are a bit like Imran Khan or Viv Richards: the worse the team’s situation, the more stubborn they get, trying to rescue the situation.

If I was going into the Fifth Day at 105-2, chasing an impossible 500 to win, I’d rather have Kohli or Dhoni batting than Tendulkar. Not even close!
 
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