Indian Muslims need smarter leaders

[someone21]

If muslims make their own parties, it will be walking straight into the BJP trap, which they will encash to consolidate hindu votes. Muslims are doing the right thing by aligning themselves with parties which work for social justice. Mulayam Singh Yadav, Lalu Yadav, Mamta Banerjee ( I know how the upper caste hindus hate them ).

Some names you mentioned are everything wrong with Indian politicians. Dynasty, caste politics and corruption.

Muslims can't keep voting for such people, unless again they keep put religion above themselves. These leaders have only fooled them, and there struggles are really due to them, not BJP actually. This seige mentality has to end really.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Some names you mentioned are everything wrong with Indian politicians. Dynasty, caste politics and corruption.

Muslims can't keep voting for such people, unless again they keep put religion above themselves. These leaders have only fooled them, and there struggles are really due to them, not BJP actually. This seige mentality has to end really.

Dynasty cult is indian mentality, not going away. Why blame politicians when people
Caste politics? When lower caste fights for its rights it is termed caste politics. When upper caste maintains it monopoly on power, it is called progress.
Corruption? Third world phenomena and every party indulges in that. Nothing unique here.

These leaders provided empowerment to the oppressed and took away the upper caste privileges. The upper caste middle class hates them for that.

Eg. VP Singh didn't have any case of corruption against him, yet he is hated among the privileged class.

Either the oppressed get their rights or India burns. No other outcome.

 

[someone21]

Dynasty cult is indian mentality, not going away. Why blame politicians when people
Caste politics? When lower caste fights for its rights it is termed caste politics. When upper caste maintains it monopoly on power, it is called progress.
Corruption? Third world phenomena and every party indulges in that. Nothing unique here.

These leaders provided empowerment to the oppressed and took away the upper caste privileges. The upper caste middle class hates them for that.

Eg. VP Singh didn't have any case of corruption against him, yet he is hated among the privileged class.

Either the oppressed get their rights or India burns. No other outcome.

That's some nonsense. Their is no justification for corruption nor dynastic politics. You see this you are oppressed and I will save you tactic has been tried and have failed. The caste leaders themselves are full of corruption and have done nothing to empower their communities nor minorities. They have remained in power for long but have failed. There are many lower caste, minorities people who are selfless and they need to be selected in politics, rather than the same old people. So minorities don't gain anything by voting for such selfish leaders. If they are poor, struggling, it's due to Congress so at least don't vote for the same party now which has only fooled you.

 

[kabbirann]

What a kuch bhi thread
as if Hindu's have very smart leaders or if the likes of Khattar,Yogi whatever or unpadh Modi are your idea of smartness then I cannot say anything.
There is failure of leadership across the spectrum in India.

 

[indipper]

Not just Muslims, I think all of sub-continental people do need better leaders as they are unable to direct themselves for the betterment of everyone.

 

[MenInG]

Veteran Indian politician Mulayam Singh Yadav has died at the age of 82.

The former federal defence minister had been admitted at a private hospital near Delhi for more than a fortnight.

After his condition deteriorated, he was put on a ventilator. His son and political successor Akhilesh Yadav announced his death on Monday morning.

Politicians from across party lines, public figures and members of the public have paid tributes to one of the stalwarts of Indian politics.

Prime Minister Narendra Modi led the tributes with a tweet, remembering his meetings with the veteran leader.

 

[rhony]

The plight of Muslims in India isn't an exception. Look around the world. In rich Muslim countries, you have monarchs that rule with an iron fist. In not so rich Islamic countries, you have corrupt leaders with sham democracies.

I blame this solely on the 'herd' mentality. They vote in blocks and aren't so independent in their thought process. They live in impoverished ghettos in India and in the west. In many cases, their way of life, policy is dictated by the local religious leaders. In India, these Mullahs are paid in bulk before the elections to get the bulk vote.

Good leaders come from good citizens. People should stop looking for Messiahs. Instead, get educated, assimilate and stop acting like a herd. There is no bigger example than Indian muslim Bollywood super stars that made a name for themselves.

 

[rhony]

Veteran Indian politician Mulayam Singh Yadav has died at the age of 82.

The former federal defence minister had been admitted at a private hospital near Delhi for more than a fortnight.

After his condition deteriorated, he was put on a ventilator. His son and political successor Akhilesh Yadav announced his death on Monday morning.

Politicians from across party lines, public figures and members of the public have paid tributes to one of the stalwarts of Indian politics.

Prime Minister Narendra Modi led the tributes with a tweet, remembering his meetings with the veteran leader.

One down and a few more to go. This lunatic once said "boys will be boys" after a gang rape in his state. He is the epitome of corruption and goonda Raj in UP. Good riddance. His neighbor Laloo is next hopefully

 

[Local.Dada]

Indian Muslims need good leaders who work on educating masses, empowering women, improving infrastructure in a lot of Muslim areas.

Obviously that applies to all Indian communities, however Muslim leaders in India are more focused on identity politics than actually work on social welfare.

 

[Varun]

One down and a few more to go. This lunatic once said "boys will be boys" after a gang rape in his state. He is the epitome of corruption and goonda Raj in UP. Good riddance. His neighbor Laloo is next hopefully

Does it make a difference? They have manufactured kids who are now at the fore.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

The plight of Muslims in India isn't an exception. Look around the world. In rich Muslim countries, you have monarchs that rule with an iron fist. In not so rich Islamic countries, you have corrupt leaders with sham democracies.

I blame this solely on the 'herd' mentality. They vote in blocks and aren't so independent in their thought process. They live in impoverished ghettos in India and in the west. In many cases, their way of life, policy is dictated by the local religious leaders. In India, these Mullahs are paid in bulk before the elections to get the bulk vote.

Pretty ignorant post.

Good leaders come from good citizens. People should stop looking for Messiahs. Instead, get educated, assimilate and stop acting like a herd. There is no bigger example than Indian muslim Bollywood super stars that made a name for themselves.

Its pretty insulting to suggest that Indian Muslims don't value education. They would benefit from a form of affirmative action in universities, and in jobs, etc. With all the hate that Hindu politicians direct at Muslims a hand up from the government would be more beneficial then the Islamophobic trope that Muslims don't care about education. Same way Dalits benefited from reservations something has to be done for Muslims as the problem is structural.


And how exactly do you want Indian Muslims to assimilate? you mentioned bollywood stars. So should Indian Muslims do pooja in mandir? Or change their name like Yousuf Khan becoming Dilip Kumar?

For the most part Indian Muslims and Hindus who live in the same area will have a lot of similarity in their culture. However its not the same and differences do exist. So where Muslim and Hindu culture diverges should Muslims just adopt the Hindu custom? Or would you like them to disown 1,000 year of Muslim history in subcontinent, and adopt the Hindutva view that this history belongs to Uzbekistan, Iran, Saudi, etc.?

 

[Champ_Pal]

Indian Muslims need a secular leader who really cares about their welfare and upliftment from poverty.

Relying on snakes who feed them religious Ghutti and telling them that a bogey man is out to get them must be rejected. Educated Muslim leaders are a rarity. These guys are still stuck in a time capsule from 18th century.

 

[Champ_Pal]

Pretty ignorant post.



Its pretty insulting to suggest that Indian Muslims don't value education. They would benefit from a form of affirmative action in universities, and in jobs, etc. With all the hate that Hindu politicians direct at Muslims a hand up from the government would be more beneficial then the Islamophobic trope that Muslims don't care about education. Same way Dalits benefited from reservations something has to be done for Muslims as the problem is structural.


And how exactly do you want Indian Muslims to assimilate? you mentioned bollywood stars. So should Indian Muslims do pooja in mandir? Or change their name like Yousuf Khan becoming Dilip Kumar?

For the most part Indian Muslims and Hindus who live in the same area will have a lot of similarity in their culture. However its not the same and differences do exist. So where Muslim and Hindu culture diverges should Muslims just adopt the Hindu custom? Or would you like them to disown 1,000 year of Muslim history in subcontinent, and adopt the Hindutva view that this history belongs to Uzbekistan, Iran, Saudi, etc.?

Many Muslim kids are forced to drop out as they have to take up their dad's business or help out their dad in feeding the rest of their large family. I have seen plenty of examples of it. Both Mother and daughter would be pregnant at the same time. Its a vicious cycle of ignorance and irresponsibility.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Indian Muslims need a secular leader who really cares about their welfare and upliftment from poverty.

Relying on snakes who feed them religious Ghutti and telling them that a bogey man is out to get them must be rejected. Educated Muslim leaders are a rarity. These guys are still stuck in a time capsule from 18th century.

Where are they going to find secular leaders in India, a country which has voted the Hindu version of the Taliban into power?

 

[cricketjoshila]

Where are they going to find secular leaders in India, a country which has voted the Hindu version of the Taliban into power?

Hindu version of Taliban. Thats the pakistani opinion on India and doesn't mean much in the world.

Check your previous PM's twitter rants. That will tell you the reality of how much a pakistani PM'S opinion on India matters.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Hindu version of Taliban. Thats the pakistani opinion on India and doesn't mean much in the world.

Check your previous PM's twitter rants. That will tell you the reality of how much a pakistani PM'S opinion on India matters.

Opinion of an internationally renowned PM matters a lot more than some anonymous Indian poster on a Pak website. Also for your information my opinion on India isn't the official Pakistani view either so at least get that right.

 

[Champ_Pal]

 

[Raja Ishtiaq]

Lost cause these lot.

Have to blend in with the infidels to stay safe.

If only their elders made the wise decision during the partition.

 

[rhony]

Does it make a difference? They have manufactured kids who are now at the fore.

And their kids will be next. These leaders' are the main reason for muslims' plight in India. They capture the votes, they treat Muslims as a block. There is no development in the Muslim areas. The control of education is given to Muslim religious leaders. Time for Muslims to change the tune. Vote for Modi. Next time when a BJP goon says something ridiculous, they can ask him to shut up. Modi has been reaching out to Muslims too recently. He probably did more for Muslims than anyone else. The triple talaq ban, bank accounts, cylinders, loans for homes, toilets, health insurance etc. On all accounts, many Muslims benefitted from these schemes. Currently 8 percent of the Muslims vote for Modi. Time to go all in.

 

[rhony]

Pretty ignorant post.



Its pretty insulting to suggest that Indian Muslims don't value education. They would benefit from a form of affirmative action in universities, and in jobs, etc. With all the hate that Hindu politicians direct at Muslims a hand up from the government would be more beneficial then the Islamophobic trope that Muslims don't care about education. Same way Dalits benefited from reservations something has to be done for Muslims as the problem is structural.


And how exactly do you want Indian Muslims to assimilate? you mentioned bollywood stars. So should Indian Muslims do pooja in mandir? Or change their name like Yousuf Khan becoming Dilip Kumar?

For the most part Indian Muslims and Hindus who live in the same area will have a lot of similarity in their culture. However its not the same and differences do exist. So where Muslim and Hindu culture diverges should Muslims just adopt the Hindu custom? Or would you like them to disown 1,000 year of Muslim history in subcontinent, and adopt the Hindutva view that this history belongs to Uzbekistan, Iran, Saudi, etc.?

How is it ignorant when it's the truth.

The only way to assimilate is through education and job. No need to change religions or names. Make friends in colleges and in jobs. Have independent thoughts instead of this self imposed ban from speaking anything against Muslims even if there is something wrong. That would be a start.

Everybody feels that Muslims are always trying to prove something. How they are good Muslims etc. To be honest, nobody cares about that quality. Even if it's a Hindu or a Christian. Reservations for 250 million Muslims is not possible. I believe many of the Muslims already get OBC reservations. Dalits have been subjugated for centuries and hence they have a SC quota. Muslims can't be part of that quota because you apparently ruled India for a thousand years. How were you subjugated? There are already quotas for 50 percent of the seats and the other 50 need to be allocated to general category.

Finally my point is , respect is earned. That respect is always given to independent thought. Take an example of blacks in USA. Slaved for centuries, many still living in poverty but many found a way to excel in several fields. I don't see that in Indian Muslims. There are a few exceptions but majority are always in survival mode. Political parties aren't helping either so it's important to forget community and chart your own individual path.

 

[Champ_Pal]

Lost cause these lot.

Have to blend in with the infidels to stay safe.

If only their elders made the wise decision during the partition.

They are still safe with Kafirs than the Momins in Pakistan.

Indian Muslims are converts from Hindus. Majority are from Backward castes. They know they will be safe with their Hindu brethren than the Punjabi Muslims in Pakistan.

 

[Champ_Pal]

Where are they going to find secular leaders in India, a country which has voted the Hindu version of the Taliban into power?

BJP goes and whips women for not covering themselves, they cutoff the hands for stealing, they throw gays from tall buildings and stone them for adultery, they randomly go and shoot minorities for no apparent reason right?

BJP sure are Hindu Taliban.

 

[Hitman]

BJP goes and whips women for not covering themselves, they cutoff the hands for stealing, they throw gays from tall buildings and stone them for adultery, they randomly go and shoot minorities for no apparent reason right?

BJP sure are Hindu Taliban.

You sure helped me from responding him

 

[Hitman]

Lost cause these lot.

Have to blend in with the infidels to stay safe.

If only their elders made the wise decision during the partition.

In that case, they would have been looking at every opportunity to immigrate to another country, knowing well what the fate of their descendants would be in their country.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

BJP goes and whips women for not covering themselves, they cutoff the hands for stealing, they throw gays from tall buildings and stone them for adultery, they randomly go and shoot minorities for no apparent reason right?

BJP sure are Hindu Taliban.

I said Hindu version, that means going backwards towards some utopian notion of history based on religion. That is the similarity of BJP and Taliban. As a supposed secular progressive I would have thought you would agree with the viewpoint rather than try to defend Hindutva.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Opinion of an internationally renowned PM matters a lot more than some anonymous Indian poster on a Pak website. Also for your information my opinion on India isn't the official Pakistani view either so at least get that right.

Renowned? For cricket.

As a PM he was reduced to ranting on twitter because most of the world ignored his opinion on India. So if the pakistani PM's opinion wasn't taken seriously, who will take the opinion of a random pakistani?

 

[IAJ]

Renowned? For cricket.

As a PM he was reduced to ranting on twitter because most of the world ignored his opinion on India. So if the pakistani PM's opinion wasn't taken seriously, who will take the opinion of a random pakistani?

Lol at this guy, do you think whole World circles around India? India this an India that. Calm down.

 

[Local.Dada]

Lol at this guy, do you think whole World circles around India? India this an India that. Calm down.

Being one of the largest economies and democracies in the world, it kind of does.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Renowned? For cricket.

As a PM he was reduced to ranting on twitter because most of the world ignored his opinion on India. So if the pakistani PM's opinion wasn't taken seriously, who will take the opinion of a random pakistani?

Did you not read what I wrote? He is renowned the world over, you are not. You are just some anonymous Indian on a message board. You don't want us to take PM of Pakistan seriously, but you expect us to respect your opinions instead?

 

[Stewie]

[MENTION=43583]KingKhanWC[/MENTION] i have interaction with indian muslims only, so i am basing my opinion on them. There is reservation given to them in education here still there is very less percentage of muslims completing their education. Leaders can't help you if your priority is not in right direction in 2018.

I have met a lot of Indian muslims at our local mosque here in the US. You get all sorts, like everywhere else. You have highly qualified engineers, teachers and doctors and then you have some (in spite of all the qualifications) who bring their centuries old mentality and views they claim are based on religion.

I dont think the narrow minded vision of some of them has anything to do with education. It is just a result of clinging on to a separate identity in India, and that identity has devolved into more and more pseudo religious tunnel vision and some rigid attitudes. You do not see that with Pakistanis.
Believe it or not a vast majority of Pakistan is fairly liberal, the so-called religious ones are louder so it seems the whole country is like that. Indian Muslims on the other hand seem to make a conscientious effort to go more right than stay in the middle.

 

[Local.Dada]

I

Believe it or not a vast majority of Pakistan is fairly liberal, the so-called religious ones are louder so it seems the whole country is like that. Indian Muslims on the other hand seem to make a conscientious effort to go more right than stay in the middle.

Can you share some examples of Pakistani liberalism?

I mean I look at big shot Muslim celebrities in India who seem very liberal and trendy in the outlook. Be it cricketers or film stars or business men. Politicians don’t count.

The middle class and poor have the same aspirations more or less. Which country offers more opportunities is also a different debate.

I am only interested in the first point for now. Let’s work our way from there.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

How is it ignorant when it's the truth.

The only way to assimilate is through education and job. No need to change religions or names. Make friends in colleges and in jobs. Have independent thoughts instead of this self imposed ban from speaking anything against Muslims even if there is something wrong. That would be a start.

You first stated that Muslims don't value education. Now you are implying they refuse to make friends of different religions. And the worse one is that apparently Muslims don't have the agency to make their own choices.

Everybody feels that Muslims are always trying to prove something. How they are good Muslims etc. To be honest, nobody cares about that quality.

Are they trying to impress non Muslims by showing they are good Muslims? As long as they are not bothering anyone else whats the problem?

Like if someone is reading namaz on the street and blocking road, sure that can be seen as a probelm. However if someone wants to wear the hijab, or refuse to drink alcohol, etc I dont see the problem.

How is it ignorant when it's the truth.
. Even if it's a Hindu or a Christian. Reservations for 250 million Muslims is not possible. I believe many of the Muslims already get OBC reservations. Dalits have been subjugated for centuries and hence they have a SC quota. Muslims can't be part of that quota because you apparently ruled India for a thousand years. How were you subjugated? There are already quotas for 50 percent of the seats and the other 50 need to be allocated to general category.

What percent of Muslims received perks during Muslim rule? Only a fringe of Muslims would be zamindars. And their would be a better chance of getting a job in the bureaucracy for a Muslim than a non Muslim.

However for the majority the only perk would be not being discriminated for practicing your religion.

There are already quotas for 50 percent of the seats and the other 50 need to be allocated to general category.

Why cant reservations be based on socio economic status? This caste based reservation system seems like nonsense. Jatts are given a OBC status. In Pakistan there are so many rich and upper middle class Jatts. Yet they would get reservations. Bukharis would apparently be a forward caste. Their are so many poor Bukharis who would get nothing.

How is it ignorant when it's the truth.

Finally my point is , respect is earned. That respect is always given to independent thought. Take an example of blacks in USA. Slaved for centuries, many still living in poverty but many found a way to excel in several fields. I don't see that in Indian Muslims. There are a few exceptions but majority are always in survival mode. Political parties aren't helping either so it's important to forget community and chart your own individual path.

Can any white politician in 2022 talk about Blacks the way BJP and other Hindutva groups talk about Muslims? Maybe that's why they are in survival mode?

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Indian Muslims need to push for the Uniform Civil Code. A purely secular govt, not the current case where Hindu practices are deemed cultural, and Sikh religious practices are deemed essential. And the courts deciding what's essential or not essential for Muslims.

Some benefits for Muslims I see are:

Equal inheritance for daughters
No more beef ban.
No Hindu Undivided Family tax savings
Want to ban Hijab fine, than ban the Sikh turban as well (no "essential" "non essential nonsense)

 

[PakLFC]

They already have great leaders like Shahrukh, Salman and other Bollywood Khan's. Owaisi brothers are even better

 

[rhony]

Indian Muslims need to push for the Uniform Civil Code. A purely secular govt, not the current case where Hindu practices are deemed cultural, and Sikh religious practices are deemed essential. And the courts deciding what's essential or not essential for Muslims.

Some benefits for Muslims I see are:

Equal inheritance for daughters
No more beef ban.
No Hindu Undivided Family tax savings
Want to ban Hijab fine, than ban the Sikh turban as well (no "essential" "non essential nonsense)

UCC is on the agenda of BJP and RSS. The biggest opponents of UCC are the Muslims. The resistance is mainly due to polygamy and relaxed divorce laws.

Equal inheritance for daughters - yes
No more beef ban- not possible
No Hindu Undivided Family tax savings - most don't care about this
Want to ban Hijab fine, than ban the Sikh turban as well (no "essential" "non essential nonsense) - ridiculous agenda. Hope supreme court rules that people can wear whatever the heck they want. This is 2022.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

UCC is on the agenda of BJP and RSS. The biggest opponents of UCC are the Muslims. The resistance is mainly due to polygamy and relaxed divorce laws.

Equal inheritance for daughters - yes
No more beef ban- not possible
No Hindu Undivided Family tax savings - most don't care about this
Want to ban Hijab fine, than ban the Sikh turban as well (no "essential" "non essential nonsense) - ridiculous agenda. Hope supreme court rules that people can wear whatever the heck they want. This is 2022.

Only reason BJP/RSS wants UCC is because Nehru reformed Hindu personal law. They kicked and screamed however they could not stop him from passing it. So if they had to modernize they want the Muslims to do so as well. Not because they are truly liberal.

UCC is on the agenda of BJP and RSS. The biggest opponents of UCC are the Muslims. The resistance is mainly due to polygamy and relaxed divorce laws.

Only a fringe of Indian Muslims engage in polygamy. And even if UCC passes could they not still do so? Simply have an unregistered marriage, so the second wife is technically a girl friend.

 

[MP2011]

Does it make a difference? They have manufactured kids who are now at the fore.

India's biggest scourge is illiterate feku and his bhakts. The day we get rid of them, that'll be the day when we'll have truly progressed.

These Mulayams, Laloos, Mayavatis are small fishes as compared to feku in harming India. Kind of damage feku has inflicted on India in only 8 years has never been seen in India under any ruler, not even Brits.