What's new

Indian Muslims need smarter leaders

Varun

Senior Test Player
Joined
Dec 25, 2012
Runs
26,449
Post of the Week
1
It’s seven decades since India became free. The world has changed beyond recognition. So has India from what it used to be 70 winters ago. The priorities, concerns and attitudes of its people have undergone a watershed transformation. If anything has remained static in this forever-evolving landscape of mind-boggling diversity, it is the Indian Muslim. He remains where he had been in 1947. His concerns, issues and priorities remain what they had been at the time of Independence.

One day, he sees his Sharia under attack. At other times, either his religious places are threatened or there is a clear and present danger to his religious rights and sentiments. When he gets some time to breathe, he has to worry about his identity and physical protection. Many of these issues and challenges are recurring in nature. They fade away from time to time only to come back with vengeance, like a mutating deadly disease.

Look at this Vande Mataram business. This is not the first time we are debating it. It has been there since as long as I can remember. In fact, it precedes the Partition and goes right back to the early years of the independence struggle, which once had the Hindus and Muslims fighting the British together—shoulder to shoulder.

Bengal’s militant nationalist poet Bankim Chandra Chatterjee’s song celebrating Mother India has been around for over a century. The controversy surrounding it is almost as old as the song. The all-embracing, magnanimous Hindu who sees the divine in every manifestation of Nature easily identifies with Vande Mataram.
Originally part of a novel Anand Math (1882), the song has the poet addressing India as the divine mother or mother goddess and bowing his head in total submission before it. Look at this stanza from the popular English translation by Aurobindo:

Thou art Durga, Lady and Queen,
With her hands that strike and her
swords of sheen,
Thou art Lakshmi lotus-throned,
And the Muse a hundred-toned,
Pure and perfect without peer,
Mother lend thine ear,
Rich with thy hurrying streams,
Bright with thy orchard gleams,
Dark of hue O candid-fair

While this unusual tribute to India may make perfect sense to the Hindu majority, who find this marriage of the divine and the temporal in the motherland rather convenient and fitting, the Muslims have always baulked at treating the nation as a divine power and mother goddess.
This does not mean they love their country any less. It is just that their faith does not allow them to replace God with the motherland. Perhaps no monotheistic religion emphasises and celebrates the unity and oneness of God as Islam does. It does not tolerate any imitation and visual representation of God. It also strictly forbids visual portrayal of the Prophet and even of his disciples. This is something that Muslims have always found hard to explain to Hindu brethren.

The issue over Vande Mataram was ostensibly resolved after the Independence. Probably in view of the Muslim sensitivities and other religions, India’s founding fathers adopted ‘Jana Gana Mana,’ another great song by another Bengali poet, Rabindranath Tagore, as the national anthem. Vande Mataram, however, remains popular.

(Personally, I believe nothing can beat Saare Jahan se Achcha Hindustan hamara! It brings out goose bumps all over. Ironically, it was penned by someone celebrated as Pakistan’s “national poet”. Visionaries like Iqbal, however, transcend the boundaries of nation states. They are the collective heritage of humanity.)

That decision on the national anthem by the Constituent Assembly should have put an end to the controversy. However, given the cynical, exploitative nature of our politics, the issue continues to pop up again and again. The politics of patriotism has been the bane of this country, with the Right repeatedly using it to target the vulnerable minorities.
India’s Supreme Court ruled long ago that singing Vande Mataram -- or for that matter the national anthem of Jana Gana Mana -- is totally optional and that nobody can be compelled to join in the collective crooning. But desperate politicians being what they are continue to flog this dead horse whenever they run out of original ideas.

And we have almost always played into their hands. We get easily worked up only to walk, eyes wide shut, into the trap laid by our adversaries. Remember the fatwa against Vande Mataram issued by Jamiatul Ulema-e-Hind at its Darul Uloom Deoband convention some years ago?

JUH is an organization of eminent religious scholars that had been in the forefront of India’s independence movement and vehemently opposed the Partition. Hundreds of its scholars spent long years and even died in the infamous island prisons of Andaman and Nicobar for resisting the British rule over India. Darul Uloom Deoband, closely associated with JUH, is arguably the most respected Islamic university in the world after Al Azhar in Egypt.

Although I understand why we have qualms in saying ‘Vande Mataram’ what really beats me is why the Muslim leadership is forever fighting phantoms obsessing over non-issues at the cost of far bigger problems and challenges facing the community. By getting drawn into these endless and needless controversies and debates, we only end up furthering the Right’s agenda.

I have great respect for our Ulema. But is there no way of ignoring irrelevant issues and confrontational politics to focus on the real concerns and interests of India’s Muslims? My generation grew up in the 80’s on a heavy dose of oppressive, all-consuming Ayodhya mosque-temple politics. The Muslim leaders played right into the hands of Hindutva groups throughout those turbulent years, helping the very forces they claimed to fight.

Today, wittingly or unwittingly, they continue to play the same zero-sum game, reacting and responding to every balloon sent up by you know who. After all those years, they have not learnt a damn thing! When do we realize that this disadvantaged and voiceless minority cannot afford to get bogged down by every issue and controversy raked up by the opposition? When will we learn to choose our battles wisely?

As if Indian Muslims do not already have enough of headaches, we are perpetually busy looking for fresh ones. In any case, under the current dispensation in Delhi whose love for all things Muslims is now legendary, you really do not have to go look for opportunities to get enraged.
This when the community, according to every social and economic indicator, performs worse than the lowest of the low in every respect. From education to employment and economic to democratic representation, the world’s largest minority remains at the bottom of the pit. What are our leaders, scholars and intellectuals doing to change this state of affairs? How long will they keep themselves and the community locked away in the past? Isn’t it time to let in the fresh winds of change? Indian Muslims need smarter, sincere leaders with smart strategies to deal with today’s challenges.

http://www.greaterkashmir.com/news/opinion/indian-muslims-need-smarter-leaders/273227.html

Interesting article.
 
Sad to see the state of Muslims in India, described here as such losers, that too by one of their own, an award winning Muslim journalist. Compare that to "the all-embracing, magnanimous Hindu" as described in the same piece, and you can see why this fellow is so downbeat. Perhaps he should be made a sincere leader of the Muslims to uplift them from their wretched state?
 
Muslims are themselves one of the most important reasons of their state. Their primary motive is religion instead of education. They still live in 1400 century. Education is the need but it contradict their book
 
Muslims are themselves one of the most important reasons of their state. Their primary motive is religion instead of education. They still live in 1400 century. Education is the need but it contradict their book


No it does not.
 
Muslims are themselves one of the most important reasons of their state. Their primary motive is religion instead of education. They still live in 1400 century. Education is the need but it contradict their book

Education and Science contradicts almost all religious books.

How can a religious guy read about evolution with a straight face when the Religious books clearly tells us that God created animals and people and put them on Earth. How can you explain a religious guy about evolution, Earth's history before Humans and Dinosaurs when the Divine book clearly tells that Earth is only 6000 or 10,0000 or 100,000 yrs old only and not billions of years old.

With Education comes female empowerment and equal rights and most religions and societies have different rules for men and women. You cannot tell a well educated empowered woman to sit at home and take care of kids. Lots of issues such as this.
 
Muslims are themselves one of the most important reasons of their state. Their primary motive is religion instead of education. They still live in 1400 century. Education is the need but it contradict their book

Improve your own English first before criticising anyone about their education.

Welcome to the forum.

For me Indian Muslims try too hard to fit in with all other Indians and dont want to be seen as unpatriotic.
 
Education and Science contradicts almost all religious books.

How can a religious guy read about evolution with a straight face when the Religious books clearly tells us that God created animals and people and put them on Earth. How can you explain a religious guy about evolution, Earth's history before Humans and Dinosaurs when the Divine book clearly tells that Earth is only 6000 or 10,0000 or 100,000 yrs old only and not billions of years old.

With Education comes female empowerment and equal rights and most religions and societies have different rules for men and women. You cannot tell a well educated empowered woman to sit at home and take care of kids. Lots of issues such as this.
Do you realise that Islam has no problem with the theory of evolution but does so with Darwinism? And the theory of evolution was first recorded in a book called, “ Al-Muqaddimah “ written in 1377 by Ibn Khaldun.
It was known as the “ Mohammedan theory “ before Darwin.
 
Do you realise that Islam has no problem with the theory of evolution but does so with Darwinism? And the theory of evolution was first recorded in a book called, “ Al-Muqaddimah “ written in 1377 by Ibn Khaldun.
It was known as the “ Mohammedan theory “ before Darwin.

Explain the difference between theory of evolution and Darwinism please?
 
[MENTION=43583]KingKhanWC[/MENTION] my English is not perfect but still i am trying. I will improve. English is not my first language.
My opinion is just that for them education and integration are less important than religion. In 21st century they have priorities in wrong direction
 
Explain the difference between theory of evolution and Darwinism please?
Evolution is a broad term. Darwin did not come up with natural selection. His theory has been amended as scientists have discovered more evidence and made advancements in technology. Darwin is now a spoke in “ The Modern Synthesis “. But that is not all. To understand it fully, you have to research on your own. Evolution does not disprove God but rather the 7-Day Hypothesis. Science need not be atheistic just as religious should not be superstitious. The thread “ Science vs. Religion “ covers this with many posters’ thoughts.
 
[MENTION=43583]KingKhanWC[/MENTION] my English is not perfect but still i am trying. I will improve. English is not my first language.
My opinion is just that for them education and integration are less important than religion. In 21st century they have priorities in wrong direction

Are you talking about Muslims in general or Indian Muslims?
 
[MENTION=43583]KingKhanWC[/MENTION] i have interaction with indian muslims only, so i am basing my opinion on them. There is reservation given to them in education here still there is very less percentage of muslims completing their education. Leaders can't help you if your priority is not in right direction in 2018.
 
Evolution is a broad term. Darwin did not come up with natural selection. His theory has been amended as scientists have discovered more evidence and made advancements in technology. Darwin is now a spoke in “ The Modern Synthesis “. But that is not all. To understand it fully, you have to research on your own. Evolution does not disprove God but rather the 7-Day Hypothesis. Science need not be atheistic just as religious should not be superstitious. The thread “ Science vs. Religion “ covers this with many posters’ thoughts.

Is it? Darwin did not come up with the theory of Natural Selection?
A quick google search tells me below.
In 1859, Charles Darwin set out his theory of evolution by natural selection as an explanation for adaptation and speciation. He defined natural selection as the "principle by which each slight variation [of a trait], if useful, is preserved".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_selection
 
Is it? Darwin did not come up with the theory of Natural Selection?
A quick google search tells me below.
In 1859, Charles Darwin set out his theory of evolution by natural selection as an explanation for adaptation and speciation. He defined natural selection as the "principle by which each slight variation [of a trait], if useful, is preserved".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_selection

Does not state that he DIRECTLY defined natural selection. Read my previous post again, sir.
 
[MENTION=43583]KingKhanWC[/MENTION] i have interaction with indian muslims only, so i am basing my opinion on them. There is reservation given to them in education here still there is very less percentage of muslims completing their education. Leaders can't help you if your priority is not in right direction in 2018.

The 2001 Census shows Jains, with a literacy rate of 94.1%, are the most educated. They are followed by Christians at 80.3%, Buddhists at 72.7%, Sikhs at 69.4%, Hindus at 65.1% and Muslims at 59.1%

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...Jains-take-the-honours/articleshow/842893.cms

Not much difference between Hindu's and Muslims in India.
 
Does not state that he DIRECTLY defined natural selection. Read my previous post again, sir.

All of my Google searches point to Darwin who defined Evolution by Natural Selection. Where is the proof that Darwin did not define Natural Selection. I am not a Biology Student, so just asking you.
 
Improve your own English first before criticising anyone about their education.

Welcome to the forum.

For me Indian Muslims try too hard to fit in with all other Indians and dont want to be seen as unpatriotic.

Are you talking about Muslims in general or Indian Muslims?


https://googleweblight.com/i?u=https://thewire.in/63286/census-literacy-religion/&hl=en-IN
This above is according to latest census in 2011. Even then i am talking about completing education. Not about leaving education in between.
This below link will make you understand what i am saying
https://googleweblight.com/i?u=http...rolment-in-higher-education-in-india&hl=en-IN
 
All of my Google searches point to Darwin who defined Evolution by Natural Selection. Where is the proof that Darwin did not define Natural Selection. I am not a Biology Student, so just asking you.
Funny because I found my answers on Google too!
 
Improve your own English first before criticising anyone about their education.

Welcome to the forum.

For me Indian Muslims try too hard to fit in with all other Indians and dont want to be seen as unpatriotic.

So Indian Muslims should be fighting with the rest 85% of Indian population?
 
Doesn't India have like 150 million Muslims? I only read part of the article but it was generalizing such a large body of people and not worth my time reading.
 
Doesn't India have like 150 million Muslims? I only read part of the article but it was generalizing such a large body of people and not worth my time reading.

I think we can all agree that 150 million Muslims are more monolithic than a 150 million sample of Hindus, Christians or Sikhs.

Depending on your perspective, you can take that as a compliment even.
 
https://googleweblight.com/i?u=https://thewire.in/63286/census-literacy-religion/&hl=en-IN
This above is according to latest census in 2011. Even then i am talking about completing education. Not about leaving education in between.
This below link will make you understand what i am saying
https://googleweblight.com/i?u=http...rolment-in-higher-education-in-india&hl=en-IN

Ok so Muslims do not gain as much higher education than others. Personally I see this as a failure of India.

Now please back up your other claim.

You wrote

"Their primary motive is religion instead of education. They still live in 1400 century. Education is the need but it contradict their book"
 
So Indian Muslims should be fighting with the rest 85% of Indian population?

They should find their own identity and not try to mix with other religions or be patriotic when a Hindu extremist party whose members have shown hatred towards them.
 
Ok so Muslims do not gain as much higher education than others. Personally I see this as a failure of India.

Not really. In any society where there are Muslims and others, I'd wager that the 'others' far outstrip the Muslims when it comes to education. If you want to look up on this, you can begin with the country you're residing in. You'll only go so far seeing it as a failure of the UK/USA/Australia/so on until you'll realize that it's the failure of the lowest common denominator in all of those instead.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Not really. In any society where there are Muslims and others, I'd wager that the 'others' far outstrip the Muslims when it comes to education. If you want to look up on this, you can begin with the country you're residing in. You'll only go so far seeing it as a failure of the UK/USA/Australia/so on until you'll realize that it's the failure of the lowest common denominator in all of those instead.

And if you haven't already, go get an MBA. If it's too late for that, get your children focused in that direction.
Not in the U.S. School teachers have stated that their best students are usually from Muslim background. I think its because they don't have other issues to worry about.
 
Not in the U.S. School teachers have stated that their best students are usually from Muslim background. I think its because they don't have other issues to worry about.

School teachers? How about PEW Research foundation?

FT_16.10.06_educationReligiousGroups.png


http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/11/04/the-most-and-least-educated-u-s-religious-groups/

Seem to be closer to the bottom there.
 
You only validated my point further. Muslims are ranked #12 on a list of 32 belief systems in the U.S. Not to shabby for a population who has just started migrating in large numbers since the late 80's and makes 1% of the population.

#12 out of #32 if you're merely counting the list top-down, but they're behind Hindus, Jews, Buddhist, Atheist, Agnostic and Orthodox Christians. Much of the ones below likely have a very few sample set to be taken too seriously: Church of the Nazarene, Jenovah's Witness etc.
 
#12 out of #32 if you're merely counting the list top-down, but they're behind Hindus, Jews, Buddhist, Atheist, Agnostic and Orthodox Christians. Much of the ones below likely have a very few sample set to be taken too seriously: Church of the Nazarene, Jenovah's Witness etc.
Jehovah's Witness make up 2.5 million which is close to the 3 million Muslim mark. JEHOVAH. Not Jenovah.
 
626,811 is a decent sample size for the Church of the Nazarene. If anything, those with a smaller population could skew the data in their favor, no?
 
Jehovah's Witness make up 2.5 million which is close to the 3 million Muslim mark. JEHOVAH. Not Jenovah.

Fair enough. Muslims are better educated than the Jehovah's Witness folks. Still a long way to go though.
 
All of my Google searches point to Darwin who defined Evolution by Natural Selection. Where is the proof that Darwin did not define Natural Selection. I am not a Biology Student, so just asking you.
Perhaps the name Alfred Russel Wallace is a good starting point, :).
 
Last time India had smart Muslim leaders, they created Pakistan...... be careful for what you wish for
 
Last time India had smart Muslim leaders, they created Pakistan...... be careful for what you wish for

I don't think Jinnah was smart enough. Even he wasn't to lead, someone would have take his position. When civil war breaks in, split was going to happen. India were never going to send troops in under-developed Karachi then.
 
As long as muslims are not discriminated against for jobs and education, I have no problem with Hinduvta exerting pressure on the Islamic apparatus in India to weaken it. The way forward, in the modern world, is through education and rejection of religion and I see it as a step in the right direction.
 
As long as muslims are not discriminated against for jobs and education, I have no problem with Hinduvta exerting pressure on the Islamic apparatus in India to weaken it. The way forward, in the modern world, is through education and rejection of religion and I see it as a step in the right direction.
Except exerting pressure results in discrimination and profiling. So you would prefer one religion to subsidise another? Not a suitable position for a hardline atheist like yourself.
 
Last time India had smart Muslim leaders, they created Pakistan...... be careful for what you wish for

I would tend to caution against remarks like this as it comes across as very negative and racist.

India has had good Muslim leaders and one of them is A. P. J. Abdul Kalam. Also if any country could have a strong Muslim leader it's going to be India. Make no doubt about it.
 
Except exerting pressure results in discrimination and profiling. So you would prefer one religion to subsidise another? Not a suitable position for a hardline atheist like yourself.

True.
I guess i'd like to see their government carefully control from behind the scenes who becomes mullah/mufti/purohit/padre etc. and pick the ones that suit the national agenda.
 
I would tend to caution against remarks like this as it comes across as very negative and racist.

India has had good Muslim leaders and one of them is A. P. J. Abdul Kalam. Also if any country could have a strong Muslim leader it's going to be India. Make no doubt about it.
Kalam did not do anything noteworthy to be considered a strong leader.
 
I would tend to caution against remarks like this as it comes across as very negative and racist.

India has had good Muslim leaders and one of them is A. P. J. Abdul Kalam. Also if any country could have a strong Muslim leader it's going to be India. Make no doubt about it.

Kalam was a scientist not a leader, and nor was he elected, he was rather put in to a ceremonial role.

Nearly 200 million of them and nothing so far.... one time the penny will drop, the appeasement doesn't work.
 
They indeed need smart leaders, it’s sad how easily they are letting BJP fanatics bully them.
 
Kalam was a scientist not a leader, and nor was he elected, he was rather put in to a ceremonial role.

Nearly 200 million of them and nothing so far.... one time the penny will drop, the appeasement doesn't work.

India is a secular democracy and if they can hire a Sikh to be a pm then a Muslim can be one too. Similarly if Us can elect a black president or a lunatic like trump then Indians will elect a capable Muslim leader also. Only condition has always been he/she has to be a citizen and be over 25-30 years. Somewhere in that region. Nothin in the constitution stating otherwise unlike Pakustan where their leader has to be a Muslim.
 
India is a secular democracy and if they can hire a Sikh to be a pm then a Muslim can be one too. Similarly if Us can elect a black president or a lunatic like trump then Indians will elect a capable Muslim leader also. Only condition has always been he/she has to be a citizen and be over 25-30 years. Somewhere in that region. Nothin in the constitution stating otherwise unlike Pakustan where their leader has to be a Muslim.

Pakistan is upfront and not pretending to be something that it's not....

Hire a Sikh.... I am glad you said that. He was an unelected puppet PM remote controlled by someone else. Hardly an advert for democracy. So far in your 70 years, I cannot remember anyone other than a Hindu being elected PM, which is not too dissimilar from Pakistan, except that Pakistan is upfront about it.
 
Kalam was a scientist not a leader, and nor was he elected, he was rather put in to a ceremonial role.

Nearly 200 million of them and nothing so far.... one time the penny will drop, the appeasement doesn't work.

Kalam was a scientist? In which field?

He was a glorified project manager. And a charlatan.
 
Kalam was a scientist? In which field?

He was a glorified project manager. And a charlatan.

I don't know enough about him to agree or disagree with you. All I read is that he was a well respected physicist/engineer at one of your institutions.
 
They should find their own identity and not try to mix with other religions or be patriotic when a Hindu extremist party whose members have shown hatred towards them.

So Indian muslims should not be friendly with people of other religion and should not love their country.

Why? Is this a requirement of being a muslim?
 
Pakistan is upfront and not pretending to be something that it's not....

Hire a Sikh.... I am glad you said that. He was an unelected puppet PM remote controlled by someone else. Hardly an advert for democracy. So far in your 70 years, I cannot remember anyone other than a Hindu being elected PM, which is not too dissimilar from Pakistan, except that Pakistan is upfront about it.

No one knows the religion of Indira Gandhi and her descendents sir. Indira married a non hindu. Rajiv married a catholic. Priyanka too married a christian. So its not factually correct to call them hindus.
 
I don't know enough about him to agree or disagree with you. All I read is that he was a well respected physicist/engineer at one of your institutions.

He was an engineer, not a physicist or scientist. No single publication for him (granted that is not necessary). No invention either. He happened to be the project manager who had scientists and engineers working under him. Somehow he became the face of these projects and common people think he was a scientist. His Doctorate is honorary, just like Sharukh Khan has got a doctorate too. He was hoisted by BJP because he fit their idea of an ideal indian muslim, who plays the sitar and has been involved in defence projects, therefore patriotic. He did nothing for indian muslims. Only accidental contribution towards public is that kids see becoming scientist as a career option, but that is because of the media hype, not him.
 
Now bangladeshis will decide what is APJ Abdul Kalam's contribution to India.LoL.
 
Now bangladeshis will decide what is APJ Abdul Kalam's contribution to India.LoL.

Indian kids don't know the name of the indian who won nobel laureate for chemistry, but they all know apj abdul kalam and (wrongly) see him as a scientist. This has to be the main contribution by that man, may he rest in peace.
 
Article is right not just Muslims but most people in India have got their priorities wrong..The politicians use these sentiments and divide people/come into power while evading doing the real work of benefitting the country/its people..

It’s all a business and people are selfish and no one is patriotic whatever anyone will say.. Article explains about Muslims in India which is true.. There are exceptions Ofcourse.
 
Article is right not just Muslims but most people in India have got their priorities wrong..The politicians use these sentiments and divide people/come into power while evading doing the real work of benefitting the country/its people..

It’s all a business and people are selfish and no one is patriotic whatever anyone will say.. Article explains about Muslims in India which is true.. There are exceptions Ofcourse.

Most people in India have got their priorities right. The majority is poor, and their priority is food, health, shelter.

It is the gutter middle class which has gots it priorities wrong, and they are more interested in india hosting some international games, signing expensive defence deals with other countries and being the lapdogs of the western nations. It is this class which is a problem and deserves what it is getting.
 
Bangladeshi guy now telling what Indian middle class should do. He is better of telling his countrymen to stop coming to Indian illegally.
 
It is the gutter middle class which has gots it priorities wrong, and they are more interested in india hosting some international games, signing expensive defence deals with other countries and being the lapdogs of the western nations. It is this class which is a problem and deserves what it is getting.

That's some nonsense. Things like space programme, international diplomacy are have a huge value and has to be done. Ultimately, for a developing country, their goal has to be to increase their aspirational population. Like moving from a job seeking to a job creating crowd, and technology is a leading it.
 
Pakistan is upfront and not pretending to be something that it's not....

Hire a Sikh.... I am glad you said that. He was an unelected puppet PM remote controlled by someone else. Hardly an advert for democracy. So far in your 70 years, I cannot remember anyone other than a Hindu being elected PM, which is not too dissimilar from Pakistan, except that Pakistan is upfront about it.

By this logic you assume that Indians are insecure and in that case Indians should have elected a Hindu instead. Now you'll be telling me sikhs = Hindus ? Yes a catholic lady stepped aside and a Sikh became a pm. It can't be anymore diverse and secular than that or you are just blind. Pakistan decided long ago that its a Muslim majority and will not have minorities in power. Case in point why it couldn't hold on to Bangladesh. India decided that anyone in the country can be prime minister or president. And India has had Muslim, Christian presidents allready. In due time it's very likely that India will have a Muslim prime minister too. And lastly India is definitely not similar to Pakistan. It's at a point where it really is comparing Apples to oranges
 
Most people in India have got their priorities right. The majority is poor, and their priority is food, health, shelter.

It is the gutter middle class which has gots it priorities wrong, and they are more interested in india hosting some international games, signing expensive defence deals with other countries and being the lapdogs of the western nations. It is this class which is a problem and deserves what it is getting.

There is nothing wrong with aiming big , having high ambitions, working hard for it and doing you're country proud and being proud of you're country in every way. If parents don't teach their kids that not sure, what you would have them do to succeed in life.
 
By this logic you assume that Indians are insecure and in that case Indians should have elected a Hindu instead. Now you'll be telling me sikhs = Hindus ? Yes a catholic lady stepped aside and a Sikh became a pm. It can't be anymore diverse and secular than that or you are just blind. Pakistan decided long ago that its a Muslim majority and will not have minorities in power. Case in point why it couldn't hold on to Bangladesh. India decided that anyone in the country can be prime minister or president. And India has had Muslim, Christian presidents allready. In due time it's very likely that India will have a Muslim prime minister too. And lastly India is definitely not similar to Pakistan. It's at a point where it really is comparing Apples to oranges

I do think Indians are insecure. Otherwise why spend so much time trying to convince Pakistanis on a PK website about your own secular credentials? What has this topic got to do with Pakistan? Isn't the writer an Indian Muslim talking about India?
 
Didn't read through the posts here, I am sure it's the usual Hindu Muslim drivel. OT, don't all religious groups need smarter leaders. With Trump, May and Corbyn in the wings even nations need smarter leaders. Why write an article about it?
 
Didn't read through the posts here, I am sure it's the usual Hindu Muslim drivel. OT, don't all religious groups need smarter leaders. With Trump, May and Corbyn in the wings even nations need smarter leaders. Why write an article about it?

A better question would be, why post it here? OP claims it is an "interesting article" so I guess he wants Pakistanis to ponder on it.
 
Bangladeshi guy now telling what Indian middle class should do. He is better of telling his countrymen to stop coming to Indian illegally.

That's some nonsense. Things like space programme, international diplomacy are have a huge value and has to be done. Ultimately, for a developing country, their goal has to be to increase their aspirational population. Like moving from a job seeking to a job creating crowd, and technology is a leading it.

There is nothing wrong with aiming big , having high ambitions, working hard for it and doing you're country proud and being proud of you're country in every way. If parents don't teach their kids that not sure, what you would have them do to succeed in life.


He is not a true Indian and is a troll he was exposed In one of Kulbhushan threads and after that he doesn’t deserve any attention.. I used to find his trolling funny but he doesn’t realise on which topics to troll and which are sensitive hence best to ignore such a person..

By priorities I meant you won’t find people coming on streets and demanding free education, free healthcare, better public transport, better job opportunities, better quality of food etc etc but you will see plenty of people willing to even give up their life/or take other people’s life for issues such as beef, Padmavati, mandir/masjid etc etc..

The major problem today is population and no one is willing to do anything about it.. Sanjay Gandhi realised how important it is to curb overpopulation and even RSS at that time in background wanted that and pushed it through sanjay Gandhi however now they are in power and are not willing to take any measures to control it. Ultimately the future will always be the same for our country can never expect to have a standard of living like west unless this population menace is stopped and we get good honest leaders/smarter public..
 
A better question would be, why post it here? OP claims it is an "interesting article" so I guess he wants Pakistanis to ponder on it.
I believe the OP was having a slow day. This article provided the much needed entertainment
 
By this logic you assume that Indians are insecure and in that case Indians should have elected a Hindu instead. Now you'll be telling me sikhs = Hindus ? Yes a catholic lady stepped aside and a Sikh became a pm. It can't be anymore diverse and secular than that or you are just blind. Pakistan decided long ago that its a Muslim majority and will not have minorities in power. Case in point why it couldn't hold on to Bangladesh. India decided that anyone in the country can be prime minister or president. And India has had Muslim, Christian presidents allready. In due time it's very likely that India will have a Muslim prime minister too. And lastly India is definitely not similar to Pakistan. It's at a point where it really is comparing Apples to oranges


TBH I genuinely feel if any political party project a Muslim As PM candidate he won’t get elected in current scenario.. It doesn’t help that there is no honest Muslim leader who is popular amongst masses. Maybe one day such a leader emerges and people can look beyond their biases and think for betterment of the country however if today any Muslim leader is projected as Pm candidate he will not win..
 
He is not a true Indian and is a troll he was exposed In one of Kulbhushan threads and after that he doesn’t deserve any attention.. I used to find his trolling funny but he doesn’t realise on which topics to troll and which are sensitive hence best to ignore such a person..

By priorities I meant you won’t find people coming on streets and demanding free education, free healthcare, better public transport, better job opportunities, better quality of food etc etc but you will see plenty of people willing to even give up their life/or take other people’s life for issues such as beef, Padmavati, mandir/masjid etc etc..

The major problem today is population and no one is willing to do anything about it.. Sanjay Gandhi realised how important it is to curb overpopulation and even RSS at that time in background wanted that and pushed it through sanjay Gandhi however now they are in power and are not willing to take any measures to control it. Ultimately the future will always be the same for our country can never expect to have a standard of living like west unless this population menace is stopped and we get good honest leaders/smarter public..

The middle class indians should migrate to other countries to escape the rise of the unprivileged. Anyway they are too good for this country and are always whining.
 
By this logic you assume that Indians are insecure and in that case Indians should have elected a Hindu instead. Now you'll be telling me sikhs = Hindus ? Yes a catholic lady stepped aside and a Sikh became a pm. It can't be anymore diverse and secular than that or you are just blind. Pakistan decided long ago that its a Muslim majority and will not have minorities in power. Case in point why it couldn't hold on to Bangladesh. India decided that anyone in the country can be prime minister or president. And India has had Muslim, Christian presidents allready. In due time it's very likely that India will have a Muslim prime minister too. And lastly India is definitely not similar to Pakistan. It's at a point where it really is comparing Apples to oranges

You are proving my point over and over....

1. Read what I said "Unelected". The Sikh puppet PM was not elected to lok Sabah but selected from the upper house. Why did Sonia Gandhi step aside to put up this charade? She should have been PM. But she knew it will cause uproar and hence she stepped aside.

2. President is merely a ceremonial role. Understand parliamentary system and where the executive power lies...

3. About 10 or so years ago... Chief Justice of Pakistan was a Hindu.

As I said earlier, Pakistan is explicit about it whereas in India the result is entirely the same under the cover of secular democracy.
 
India is a secular democracy and if they can hire a Sikh to be a pm then a Muslim can be one too. Similarly if Us can elect a black president or a lunatic like trump then Indians will elect a capable Muslim leader also. Only condition has always been he/she has to be a citizen and be over 25-30 years. Somewhere in that region. Nothin in the constitution stating otherwise unlike Pakustan where their leader has to be a Muslim.

Pakistan*
 
Improve your own English first before criticising anyone about their education.

Welcome to the forum.

For me Indian Muslims try too hard to fit in with all other Indians and dont want to be seen as unpatriotic.

Is knowing english necessary for someone to be educated ?
 
Asaduddin Owaisi is a smart leader, and he is aligning Muslim with Dalits, which gives him a wider reach. His is prone to demagoguery, which is a necessary evil in indian politics, otherwise it would be a great day if he comes the prime minister. All depends on whether indian politics will turn its direction or continue in the direction shown by Modi.

I don't see any hope for India, and I think it is going to burn in the coming years.
 
Asaduddin Owaisi is a smart leader, and he is aligning Muslim with Dalits, which gives him a wider reach. His is prone to demagoguery, which is a necessary evil in indian politics, otherwise it would be a great day if he comes the prime minister. All depends on whether indian politics will turn its direction or continue in the direction shown by Modi.

I don't see any hope for India, and I think it is going to burn in the coming years.

Modi will be hard to topple. Not because all of India is hinduvta/all hindus are hinduvta, but because he is super duper well spoken and has no contender from his own party...his only opposition...Rahul Gandhi-sounds like an Indian version of George W Bush with ADD.

Modi is a skilled politician and if watching the demonetization saga in India has taught me anything, its that Modi is skilled enough to spin a partial failure/mixed-bag result as 'overwhelming success with expected growing pains'.
He'd be hard to topple in virtually any nation due to his political skills and savvy.
 
TBH I genuinely feel if any political party project a Muslim As PM candidate he won’t get elected in current scenario.. It doesn’t help that there is no honest Muslim leader who is popular amongst masses. Maybe one day such a leader emerges and people can look beyond their biases and think for betterment of the country however if today any Muslim leader is projected as Pm candidate he will not win..

That's the key, and the onus is on Muslims themselves. They continue to vote for the same Congress. If they are poor, or haven't been empowered, Congress is the biggest reason. Even if they hate BJP for their illogical reasons, it doesn't make any sense to vote Congress. They can make their own parties, show their inclusiveness, and also allow create women leaders. The latter is key for me as Muslim women empowerment is just little. Triple Talaq exposed the backwardness and hatred in the communties
 
That's the key, and the onus is on Muslims themselves. They continue to vote for the same Congress. If they are poor, or haven't been empowered, Congress is the biggest reason. Even if they hate BJP for their illogical reasons, it doesn't make any sense to vote Congress. They can make their own parties, show their inclusiveness, and also allow create women leaders. The latter is key for me as Muslim women empowerment is just little. Triple Talaq exposed the backwardness and hatred in the communties

Which party should the muslims vote for?
 
Asaduddin Owaisi is a smart leader, and he is aligning Muslim with Dalits, which gives him a wider reach. His is prone to demagoguery, which is a necessary evil in indian politics, otherwise it would be a great day if he comes the prime minister. All depends on whether indian politics will turn its direction or continue in the direction shown by Modi.

I don't see any hope for India, and I think it is going to burn in the coming years.

Owasi is all about siege mentality. Everybody else is against us, and India doesn't need such politics.
 
Which party should the muslims vote for?

They can make their own parties, why vote for the same party who fooled them consistently? You see this siege mentality among the communties leads nowhere. They need to think independently and be aspirational, not just follow the mullahs.
 
They can make their own parties, why vote for the same party who fooled them consistently? You see this siege mentality among the communties leads nowhere. They need to think independently and be aspirational, not just follow the mullahs.

If muslims make their own parties, it will be walking straight into the BJP trap, which they will encash to consolidate hindu votes. Muslims are doing the right thing by aligning themselves with parties which work for social justice. Mulayam Singh Yadav, Lalu Yadav, Mamta Banerjee ( I know how the upper caste hindus hate them ).
 
Back
Top