"Indians facing identity crisis in US under Trump"

[Bilal7]

Apparently the average bigot cannot distinguish an Indian from a member of the "Islamic terror". Huh, who knew?

It’s a confusing time for Indians in America. And while there is support within their neighbourhoods, and often outrage against the ‘tell them to go home’ attitudes surfacing in pockets of the country, the sense of being different, of standing out from the crowd, has become heightened since the start of the Trump administration.

“I have become acutely aware of my skin colour in the last few months, after the rise of alleged hate crimes against Indians and Indians mistaken for ‘Arabs’,” he says. “The last two months have seen three violent attacks against people of Indian origin in Kansas city, Kent and South Carolina, which resulted in two deaths. I didn’t want to stand out any more than I already do, and my family back home has been worried too. So I shaved off my beard, and the absurdity of this fear is saddening,” he adds.

“The most notable change for me is that, anyone new I meet or make eye contact with, at parties, in the street, on the subway, I wonder who they voted for. I wonder if they think I don’t belong, that I should ‘go back to where I came from’,” says Guhathakurta, who moved to the US with her family at the age of 6.

“Most people I come across at the university are very liberal. There are Republicans in the university space but their politics of conservatism is more economic than social,” says Shourjya Deb, 27, a student of public policy and administration at Rutgers University in New Jersey. “In the university space, the way of life is such that people are kind of afraid of being called out as racists or fascists. But even here, when I ask Republicans if they want me to leave the country, they are embarrassed and don’t know how to handle the question.”

Source: http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/i-wonder-who-they-voted-for-indians-facing-identity-crisis-in-us-under-trump/story-YM3yGRow8pNazHwDLYyx6K.html

Wonder how many of those Indian Hindus that were raving about Trump and the Indians that voted for him have changed their political leanings since Trump's election win. This is obviously quite terrible and it is always awful to see anyone being the victim of racism and bigotry, however one can't help but see this as a rude awakening for a lot of Indian Americans who voted Republican.

First they came for the Socialists, then the Jews...

 

[Napa]

View attachment 75345

Apparently the average bigot cannot distinguish an Indian from a member of the "Islamic terror". Huh, who knew?









Source: http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/i-wonder-who-they-voted-for-indians-facing-identity-crisis-in-us-under-trump/story-YM3yGRow8pNazHwDLYyx6K.html

Wonder how many of those Indian Hindus that were raving about Trump and the Indians that voted for him have changed their political leanings since Trump's election win. This is obviously quite terrible and it is always awful to see anyone being the victim of racism and bigotry, however one can't help but see this as a rude awakening for a lot of Indian Americans who voted Republican.

First they came for the Socialists, then the Jews...

I have lived in the US for over 20 years. Things were fine till 9/11. After that I did start getting a few suspicious glances. And I was singled out for special security screening at a Tx airport once.

Was I upset? Not really. I know the world that I live in, and the fact that the average American cannot distinguish between Middle Eastern Muslim countries, Pakistan, Afghanistan and India.

The White working class has been hammered by the Democrats who have supported the move of manufacturing to East Asia to grow the profits of corporations. Trump gave the working class an alternative to Democrats and Establishment Republicans.

Besides free trade, the Democrats are also responsible for starting new wars in Ukraine, Syria and Libya. Hillary's trustworthiness was as low or worse than Trump's for a reason. So supporting Trump isn't hard.

Whether I get a few more dirty looks in the streets for being brown, I do not know. I don't keep count. Drama queens have time for such stuff, I don't.

 

[Bilal7]

I have lived in the US for over 20 years. Things were fine till 9/11. After that I did start getting a few suspicious glances. And I was singled out for special security screening at a Tx airport once.

Was I upset? Not really. I know the world that I live in, and the fact that the average American cannot distinguish between Middle Eastern Muslim countries, Pakistan, Afghanistan and India.

The White working class has been hammered by the Democrats who have supported the move of manufacturing to East Asia to grow the profits of corporations. Trump gave the working class an alternative to Democrats and Establishment Republicans.

Besides free trade, the Democrats are also responsible for starting new wars in Ukraine, Syria and Libya. Hillary's trustworthiness was as low or worse than Trump's for a reason. So supporting Trump isn't hard.

Whether I get a few more dirty looks in the streets for being brown, I do not know. I don't keep count. Drama queens have time for such stuff, I don't.

Yes, drama queens like the Sikh who got shot at or the student who was killed. Or the many, many more people being discriminated against in the US because of the color of their skin, their dressing choices or religious beliefs. I wonder if you would be as heartless if this was your family member or friend.

Fortunately, you and other Trump supporters are an ever shrinking minority. America seems to have realized its mistakes. Indian Americans definitely have.

 

[Robbie]

Yes, drama queens like the Sikh who got shot at or the student who was killed. Or the many, many more people being discriminated against in the US because of the color of their skin, their dressing choices or religious beliefs. I wonder if you would be as heartless if this was your family member or friend.

Fortunately, you and other Trump supporters are an ever shrinking minority. America seems to have realized its mistakes. Indian Americans definitely have.

Do you mean to say Sikh were not murdered in US before Trump presidency?
And
Do you think Brown people were not getting those dirty looks before Trump came into power?

 

[TM Riddle]

What I find funny and interesting is that such kind of outrageous theories usually come from the overseas Pakistanis who are used to living in a multicultural society instead of mainland Pakistanis who are around 95% muslims and probably not used to seeing people of different beliefs around them.
And they said education is answer to everything.

 

[LegCutter]

Indians assimilate really well; I would not call it subservience. They've done pretty well to get themselves to live the white fence life, and generally have far less identity crisis than Pakistanis.

Pakistanis in the US generally most integrate well, but there is a small but very prominent fraction that takes pride in not assimilating.

Trump has made identity politics a major issue though, it's extremely unfortunate. It's a warped system when Donald Trump and Hilary Clinton were the two best people this god frickin nation could come up with.

 

[Specialisttailender]

I have lived in the US for over 20 years. Things were fine till 9/11. After that I did start getting a few suspicious glances. And I was singled out for special security screening at a Tx airport once.

Was I upset? Not really. I know the world that I live in, and the fact that the average American cannot distinguish between Middle Eastern Muslim countries, Pakistan, Afghanistan and India.

The White working class has been hammered by the Democrats who have supported the move of manufacturing to East Asia to grow the profits of corporations. Trump gave the working class an alternative to Democrats and Establishment Republicans.

Besides free trade, the Democrats are also responsible for starting new wars in Ukraine, Syria and Libya. Hillary's trustworthiness was as low or worse than Trump's for a reason. So supporting Trump isn't hard.

Whether I get a few more dirty looks in the streets for being brown, I do not know. I don't keep count. Drama queens have time for such stuff, I don't.

Where do you live bro ? Sad to hear.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Just that the richest people in UK happen to be Indians and are pretty much covered in UK.But some people dont get to hear about them.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Just that the richest people in UK happen to be Indians and are pretty much covered in UK.But some people dont get to hear about them.

How would you know if they are covered? Do you live here? The best known Indians in the UK are probably the Goodness Gracious Me cast who are well known for their send ups of Indian families and their hilarious foibles like the Kapoors ( or Koopahs) and Mr Made in India.

 

[Napa]

Where do you live bro ? Sad to hear.

I live in Southwest USA. My life is actually excellent, the country has been very generous to me.

 

[Muhammad10]

No need to call Trump "Dump". You can make your point without unnecessary name-calling.

 

[cricketjoshila]

How would you know if they are covered? Do you live here? The best known Indians in the UK are probably the Goodness Gracious Me cast who are well known for their send ups of Indian families and their hilarious foibles like the Kapoors ( or Koopahs) and Mr Made in India.

I dont know where your "here" is.

I have plenty of relatives living in UK mostly since late 70s.The likes Mittal Hindujas Reuben Brothers are very well covered in UK outlets.Your ignorance doesnt make things a fact.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I dont know where your "here" is.

I have plenty of relatives living in UK mostly since late 70s.The likes Mittal Hindujas Reuben Brothers are very well covered in UK outlets.Your ignorance doesnt make things a fact.

I can guarantee you 97% of British people outside of the Indian community neither know about those people or would give them a moment's thought if they did. If that makes them ignorant, well so be it. No one will know who the Japanese CEO of Nissan is either. The public perception of Indians is more likely to be Apu from the Simpsons, that is the character that the average Joe can identify with.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Indians were only loving Trump for his anti Muslim rhetoric.

They are still not over being ruled by Muslims. When your skin isn't white, you really don't want to be supporting Trump, it's like shooting yourself in the foot.

 

[PakLFC]

Indian's have parties when every new American President is elected. They think he or she will completely open the doors for them to enter the USA in millions. Trump has to negotiate with Pakistan knowing the situations is not great for the USA in Afghanistan. Indian people don't seem to get all the red tape and difficulties that come with being the world's most powerful man. He couldn't even get Pak to release Shakil Afridi where as before being elected boasted about getting him feed in 24 hoursrby.

 

[Napa]

Indian's have parties when every new American President is elected. They think he or she will completely open the doors for them to enter the USA in millions.

Wow, I have to say I am impressed. Even though you are a Pakistani and I am an Indian, you know more about Indians than I do.

 

[Bilal7]

Wow, I have to say I am impressed. Even though you are a Pakistani and I am an Indian, you know more about Indians than I do.

Do you see those Hindus in the OP worshipping their orange messiah? Or are they too well-assimilated because of which you thought they were white supremacists?

 

[Bilal7]

I live in Southwest USA. My life is actually excellent, the country has been very generous to me.

I wish all Asian Americans could live the American dream like you have. Unfortunately, they are not.

Source: Indian and Pakistani Americans.

 

[Pakistanian]

all the young American born Indians I know except for a few confused ones, actually hate Trump. It's only fresh off the boat Indian uncles who support Trump, they have a colonial complex.

 

[PakLFC]

Those Indian's who voted for Trump was in hope of him taking decisive actions against Pak in India's favour and allowing million's of Indian's in the USA. This is always the benchmark for Indian people be the elections be in India or the USA. They will always vote for who appears to be the most anti-Pakistan candidate.

 

[www787]

From my experience closet Hindu radicals and newly indian immigrants have openly supported Trump.

Kind of like similar to those Indians who still live in India of one sided view and get all excited when a white man praise them for using a toilet instead of going out in the woods.

 

[www787]

And those 2nd generation Indians and those who haven't been radicalized by propaganda driven Indian media and Indian government would not and could not support a liar, mysoginist, racist and an imbecile human being.

 

[PakLFC]

Indian army is nothing. Considering their manpower they're an embarrassment in every way. These Hindu radical's in the above pictures believe for their terrorist killers to be superhuman. Never mind China who will crush them within 7 days they can't even win a decisive war against Pakistan. They're talking of a two front war with China and Pakistan shows how deluded they are.

 

[cricketjoshila]

This thread is becoming comical.

Pakistanis deciding what Indians will do wont do cant do.Even going as far as to dissect and tell which generation will do what.Let Indians decide what they want.

 

[Adil_94]

most younger indians from u.s n the ones born there are likely to be democrat or liberal and not supporting trumls rhetoric. Its generally some older generation who have bad blood with muslims partition or historical grievances that are pro Trump. But yes unlike in u.k most american far right wont know the difference between a sikh or muslim or hindu. they will see a brown guy with a beard n assume this guy is suspicious.

the indians who were pro trump will be finding that out. That a lot of the anti-Muslim Trump supporters wont be able to distinguish who is who.

but indians who arent right wing in the states wont be having any regrets or second thoughtd n carry on living their life.

most minorities are anti trump because of his anti migrant rhetoric.

But you will get subsections in most minorities who support Trump.

ive seen latinos for trump blacks for trump n even muslims for trump.

 

[www787]

This thread is becoming comical.

Pakistanis deciding what Indians will do wont do cant do.Even going as far as to dissect and tell which generation will do what.Let Indians decide what they want.

Your comments have been comical as usual.

 

[Napa]

Do you see those Hindus in the OP worshipping their orange messiah? Or are they too well-assimilated because of which you thought they were white supremacists?

I wish all Asian Americans could live the American dream like you have. Unfortunately, they are not.

Source: Indian and Pakistani Americans.

As I had explained earlier, there were reasons for the working class for voting for Trump other than racism, though some whites would have voted for him because he was white. However that was a lot smaller percentage of blacks who voted for Obama because he was black.

Most Indians I know voted for Clinton. As such your OP is based on something not true. Forbes writes:

The results of one recent survey indicated that more than 67% of Indian Americans supported Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton while only a paltry 7% voted for Trump in the primaries. This actually represents a sharp decline from 2012, when 16% supported the GOP nominee Mitt Romney. Further, it demonstrates the extent to which Indian American support for the GOP has eroded ever since Trump became its party leader. The poll also found that a whopping 79% of Indian Americans had an unfavorable view of the New York billionaire.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/ronakd...ans-do-not-support-donald-trump/#33edf6281f19

I am not that detached from reality to think South Asians do not have problems in this country. They do, but humans have problems everywhere in the world and no society is perfect. Just read the thread about racism against South Asians in the mideast. Considering everything, the South Asian experience in the US must be very positive and most would migrate to the US if they had an opportunity.

 

[cricketjoshila]

I can guarantee you 97% of British people outside of the Indian community neither know about those people or would give them a moment's thought if they did. If that makes them ignorant, well so be it. No one will know who the Japanese CEO of Nissan is either. The public perception of Indians is more likely to be Apu from the Simpsons, that is the character that the average Joe can identify with.

As i said your perception and thoughts dont decide the public view on Indians.

 

[Slog]

I have lived in the US for over 20 years. Things were fine till 9/11. After that I did start getting a few suspicious glances. And I was singled out for special security screening at a Tx airport once.

Was I upset? Not really. I know the world that I live in, and the fact that the average American cannot distinguish between Middle Eastern Muslim countries, Pakistan, Afghanistan and India.

The White working class has been hammered by the Democrats who have supported the move of manufacturing to East Asia to grow the profits of corporations. Trump gave the working class an alternative to Democrats and Establishment Republicans.

Besides free trade, the Democrats are also responsible for starting new wars in Ukraine, Syria and Libya. Hillary's trustworthiness was as low or worse than Trump's for a reason. So supporting Trump isn't hard.

Whether I get a few more dirty looks in the streets for being brown, I do not know. I don't keep count. Drama queens have time for such stuff, I don't.

Even before 9/11 there was racism against Indians.

Infact probably 80s were worst time to be an Indian in America. Indians were the permanent punchline to every joke and the only references to them in the mainstream were the ridiculous Apu from Simpsons accent and being weird around women. Not to mention gangs like dot busters roaming around in New Jersey beating up Indians and vandalising Indian stores and properties.

A few dirty looks now is way better than the rampant racism and physical damage of yester years

 

[Slog]

I wish all Asian Americans could live the American dream like you have. Unfortunately, they are not.

Source: Indian and Pakistani Americans.

Well they do

Both Indian American families and Pakistani American families have average incomes greater than the average income for American households. Only oriental Asians have higher average household incomes and education.

Compared to Canadian desis and British Pakistanis, the American desi diaspora had t pretty good

 

[Yossarian]

I don't think the Whites are perfect and think Bush was a perfectly horrible President. However, overall I like the Whites, and also understand that no one is perfect but as a race they are pretty good. Significantly, they welcome the most amount of immigrants to their countries and are the ones who ended slavery..

Looking at the 'white' non-European countries, presumably you are aware of the fact that these countries only became 'white' countries after the 'whites' invaded and killed most of the 'non-whites' already living there?

In fact you could almost even argue that those on the subcontinent would have suffered the same fate if it were not for the fact that the numbers (of those already living there) were too great, and besides, it was better to siphon off their wealth and economic output and ship it back to the 'white' homelands.

And you're saying they 'welcomed' immigrants to their countries? Like the millions of African slaves 'welcomed' to the Americas? Or the almost million Indians (which includes the current Pakistan and Bangladesh) 'welcomed' to come and fight, and (over 70,000) die, in the trenches of Europe on behalf of their 'white' masters?

You perhaps may be ignorant of recent European history, of the fact that the vast majority of non-whites now being in Europe is due to the need for workers, low level workers, that Europeans brought over from former colonies in order to rebuild their economies after the devastation caused by WW2.

As for your comment "and are the ones who ended slavery"

You think the Africans, and the African Americans, should be grateful to the 'whites' for ending slavery? That's like saying the victim of an abuser and rapist should be grateful to the rapist for ceasing the abuse and not raping them any more.

Ever wondered as to what part the aforementioned 'welcomed' slaves made as regards much (albeit not all) of the wealth that's made America, and large sections of its 'white' population, what it is today?

 

[Napa]

Even before 9/11 there was racism against Indians.

<b>Infact probably 80s were worst time to be an Indian in America.</b> Indians were the permanent punchline to every joke and the only references to them in the mainstream were the ridiculous Apu from Simpsons accent and being weird around women. Not to mention gangs like dot busters roaming around in New Jersey beating up Indians and vandalising Indian stores and properties.

A few dirty looks now is way better than the rampant racism and physical damage of yester years

I would not know, since I was not there, but I will take your word for it. Since then I assume the various successes of Indians have improved that image. The different Indian CEOs, the growth of Bollywood, India's space program etc. have at least influenced those who are more knowledgeable. In fact my own opinion about my country has improved dramatically over the last 3 decades! We are finally rid of the idea that developed in socialist India that the West is able to do everything better.

Having said that, 9/11 did make a difference.

Personally I can't say I have ever experienced racism. I have experienced a few rude people, but I do not know if it is any more than what the average White would expand. It may be because I am usually firm and have a "don't mess with me" attitude.

 

[Napa]

Looking at the 'white' non-European countries, presumably you are aware of the fact that these countries only became 'white' countries after the 'whites' invaded and killed most of the 'non-whites' already living there?

Of course I am aware. If you go back a few thousand years, you may be surprised by how much population displacement has taken place. Original populations barely exist anywhere. Even for the "Native Americans" there were two waves of migration, and the second wave "invaded and killed" most of the first wave.

In fact you could almost even argue that those on the subcontinent would have suffered the same fate if it were not for the fact that the numbers (of those already living there) were too great, and besides, it was better to siphon off their wealth and economic output and ship it back to the 'white' homelands.

If you think the current inhabitants of the subcontinent did not "invade and kill" earlier populations, you need to read a bit of history. Pay special attention to population genetics of modern populations.

And you're saying they 'welcomed' immigrants to their countries? Like the millions of African slaves 'welcomed' to the Americas? Or the almost million Indians (which includes the current Pakistan and Bangladesh) 'welcomed' to come and fight, and (over 70,000) die, in the trenches of Europe on behalf of their 'white' masters?

No, I was talking about my own experience and the experience of 75% of my college classmates who live in this country and many of whom belong to the 1%.

You perhaps may be ignorant of recent European history, of the fact that the vast majority of non-whites now being in Europe is due to the need for workers, low level workers, that Europeans brought over from former colonies in order to rebuild their economies after the devastation caused by WW2.

Yes, like the Arab countries also imported labor. I suggest you read the PP recent thread about treatment of people from the SC there, especially the laborers. If the difference in the behavior of the Arabs and the Europeans doesn't impress you, then I can't help you.

As for your comment "and are the ones who ended slavery"

You think the Africans, and the African Americans, should be grateful to the 'whites' for ending slavery? That's like saying the victim of an abuser and rapist should be grateful to the rapist for ceasing the abuse and not raping them any more.

Yes, they should be grateful. Because there is a fair chance that under any other race they would have continued being slaves. Do tell me which other major race behaves better with others, which one do you think would have ended slavery by themselves? The Africans, the Arabs, the Japanese or someone else?

Ever wondered as to what part the aforementioned 'welcomed' slaves made as regards much (albeit not all) of the wealth that's made America, and large sections of its 'white' population, what it is today?

The idea that slaves built "much" of the US is just another liberal myth. Canada did not have slaves and did about as well. [MENTION=134300]Tusker[/MENTION]

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Looking at the 'white' non-European countries, presumably you are aware of the fact that these countries only became 'white' countries after the 'whites' invaded and killed most of the 'non-whites' already living there?

In fact you could almost even argue that those on the subcontinent would have suffered the same fate if it were not for the fact that the numbers (of those already living there) were too great, and besides, it was better to siphon off their wealth and economic output and ship it back to the 'white' homelands.

And you're saying they 'welcomed' immigrants to their countries? Like the millions of African slaves 'welcomed' to the Americas? Or the almost million Indians (which includes the current Pakistan and Bangladesh) 'welcomed' to come and fight, and (over 70,000) die, in the trenches of Europe on behalf of their 'white' masters?

You perhaps may be ignorant of recent European history, of the fact that the vast majority of non-whites now being in Europe is due to the need for workers, low level workers, that Europeans brought over from former colonies in order to rebuild their economies after the devastation caused by WW2.

As for your comment "and are the ones who ended slavery"

You think the Africans, and the African Americans, should be grateful to the 'whites' for ending slavery? That's like saying the victim of an abuser and rapist should be grateful to the rapist for ceasing the abuse and not raping them any more.

Ever wondered as to what part the aforementioned 'welcomed' slaves made as regards much (albeit not all) of the wealth that's made America, and large sections of its 'white' population, what it is today?

You have to hand it to the Indians, they know their place in society and are humble enough to accept it. It's a trait we British Pakistanis and Muslims lack somewhat, I don't know if that's because it's the British superiority complex which has permeated our very beings or just something deeply ingrained. I even see it too much in immigrants with their sense of entitlement and unearned self-aggrandisement. It reminds me of a lot of the British working classes actually who equally feel the world owes them plaudits and admiration simply for being British.

 

[Napa]

You have to hand it to the Indians, they know their place in society and are humble enough to accept it.

And what "place" would that be? I don't find any difference in my "place" and those of my white neighbors.

It is not a good thing to resent people you or your parents have chosen to live with. If you really think they are not fair, you should choose not to live with them. Besides being ungrateful, it is not mentally healthy to bear a constant grudge.

 

[Saeed]

Not really, many Indians in America are progressive or at least pretend they are. Those who support him are just keyboard warriors and usually like to keep their political views private in actual world.

 

[Pakpak]

Not really, many Indians in America are progressive or at least pretend they are. Those who support him are just keyboard warriors and usually like to keep their political views private in actual world.

The OP is true.

Jindal, someone see his portrait? The guy has completely white-washed himself.

 

[Saeed]

Jindal, someone see his portrait? The guy has completely white-washed himself.

I saw it last year. It explains certain posts in this thread very well. This one right?

 

[Pakpak]

I saw it last year. It explains certain posts in this thread very well. This one right?
View attachment 75389

Yup

And he goes to great lengths to distance himself from anything Indian. Tragic.

 

[TM Riddle]

Indians were only loving Trump for his anti Muslim rhetoric.

They are still not over being ruled by Muslims. When your skin isn't white, you really don't want to be supporting Trump, it's like shooting yourself in the foot.

Which 'Muslim' rule 'us' ?

 

[Napa]

I saw it last year. It explains certain posts in this thread very well. This one right?
View attachment 75389

He is not stupid to not understand that people won't see the difference. He is a Rhodes Scholar which means he is smart, but being a Baniya (mother is Gupta) means he is even smarter!

It is a portrait drawn by a constituent, and it was gracious of him to put it up in his office. He got 66% of the vote when he stood for re-election, so at least during that time he was very well liked.

 

[Yossarian]

I saw it last year. It explains certain posts in this thread very well. This one right?
View attachment 75389

Poor fella. Appears to be suffering from the same medical condition as the late Michael Jackson.

 

[Yossarian]

As for your comment "and are the ones who ended slavery"

You think the Africans, and the African Americans, should be grateful to the 'whites' for ending slavery? That's like saying the victim of an abuser and rapist should be grateful to the rapist for ceasing the abuse and not raping them any more.

Yes, they should be grateful. Because there is a fair chance that under any other race they would have continued being slaves. Do tell me which other major race behaves better with others, which one do you think would have ended slavery by themselves? The Africans, the Arabs, the Japanese or someone else?

Sadly, you missed the point. The topic was 'whites' and Africans enslaved at the hands of 'whites'. What the Africans, Japanese and Arabs did, or did not do, is a separate issue. Raise a thread by all means if you wish to discuss that further.

 

[Saeed]

It is a portrait drawn by a constituent, and it was gracious of him to put it up in his office. He got 66% of the vote when he stood for re-election, so at least during that time he was very well liked.

Poor fella. Appears to be suffering from the same medical condition as the late Michael Jackson.

Well at least he will be able to afford health care for his medical conditions unlike his poor constituents who see him as a white guy. Maybe they drew this so he wouldn't take their healthcare away. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/04/02/jindals-health-plan-starts-with-a-tough-premise-repeal-all-of-obamacare/?utm_term=.244018355e89

 

[Yossarian]

You have to hand it to the Indians, they know their place in society and are humble enough to accept it. It's a trait we British Pakistanis and Muslims lack somewhat, I don't know if that's because it's the British superiority complex which has permeated our very beings or just something deeply ingrained. I even see it too much in immigrants with their sense of entitlement and unearned self-aggrandisement. It reminds me of a lot of the British working classes actually who equally feel the world owes them plaudits and admiration simply for being British.

Coming back to the topic of the OP, ie Trump and Indians, notice how Trump starts ranting and raving on a completely different topic to the one under discussion whenever he starts losing the argument? See the similarities between that and how the humble Indian posters try to do the same by diverting the discussion to Arabs, Japanese, Aliens and their gene pools? What do you think came first? Who learnt this technique from who? Trump or the humble Indians?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

And what "place" would that be? I don't find any difference in my "place" and those of my white neighbors.

It is not a good thing to resent people you or your parents have chosen to live with. If you really think they are not fair, you should choose not to live with them. Besides being ungrateful, it is not mentally healthy to bear a constant grudge.

No idea what you are talking about here, but it sounds like typical immigrant mentality. Why would I need to feel grateful any more than my white neighbour for growing up in a country I was born in?

 

[Napa]

Sadly, you missed the point. The topic was 'whites' and Africans enslaved at the hands of 'whites'. What the Africans, Japanese and Arabs did, or did not do, is a separate issue. Raise a thread by all means if you wish to discuss that further.

Everything in this world is relative. Keep searching for that unicorn if you must.

 

[Napa]

No idea what you are talking about here, but it sounds like typical immigrant mentality. Why would I need to feel grateful any more than my white neighbour for growing up in a country I was born in?

Resenting the people of the country you live in based on their race isn't the path to a healthy mental state. Certainly saying "whites are bad because of this..." or "whites are bad because of that..." is race based resentment. Especially when compared to other races they have their virtues.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Resenting the people of the country you live in based on their race isn't the path to a healthy mental state. Certainly saying "whites are bad because of this..." or "whites are bad because of that..." is race based resentment. Especially when compared to other races they have their virtues.

I'd agree with that, but it's not the question I asked, which was:

Why would I need to feel grateful any more than my white neighbour for growing up in a country I was born in?

 

[Napa]

I'd agree with that, but it's not the question I asked, which was:

Why would I need to feel grateful any more than my white neighbour for growing up in a country I was born in?

Because at some point, the country accepted your parents and let them immigrate. They immigrated in search of a better life. Given that people from the subcontinent still want to immigrate, I would say it is safe to say that they expect a better life there.

I am not saying that you have perform any actions that your white neighbor is not required to do. Being grateful is just a thought, an acknowledgement that the society you live in at some point gave an opportunity for a better life to immigrants who were your ancestors. Of course, they have their own interests too, however altruism is part of their motives.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Because at some point, the country accepted your parents and let them immigrate. They immigrated in search of a better life. Given that people from the subcontinent still want to immigrate, I would say it is safe to say that they expect a better life there.

I am not saying that you have perform any actions that your white neighbor is not required to do. Being grateful is just a thought, an acknowledgement that the society you live in at some point gave an opportunity for a better life to immigrants who were your ancestors. Of course, they have their own interests too, however altruism is part of their motives.

It's just not the mentality of a British person to go back in history and be grateful for what happened in previous generations. It would be like expecting my white neighbour to be grateful that my Indian ancestors fought and died under the British flag when they were part of the empire.

I think your mentality is more suited to immigrant status and on that I can agree with you completely. If you are an immigrant to a country and have made the choice to move to that country of your own volition then of course you should be grateful for the opportunity. If you moved next door to me in the UK I would certainly think it healthy for you to go out of your way to show your appreciation, and I in turn would do my best to make you feel welcome, provided you respected the culture and norms of the neighbourhood we lived in.

 

[the Great Khan]

What I find funny and interesting is that such kind of outrageous theories usually come from the overseas Pakistanis who are used to living in a multicultural society instead of mainland Pakistanis who are around 95% muslims and probably not used to seeing people of different beliefs around them.
And they said education is answer to everything.

im sorry but from what ive seen the west is the one unfomfortable with multiculturalism. Just because a country is 100% Muslim doesnt mean it isnt multicultural or multi ethnic. We have been living in multicultural societies for thousands of years, so much so that it isnt even seen as multiculturalism. it is just normal. The west only came across multiculturalism in after the war..so please dont lecture us on multiculturalism.

 

[Eagle_Eye]

What I find funny and interesting is that such kind of outrageous theories usually come from the overseas Pakistanis who are used to living in a multicultural society instead of mainland Pakistanis who are around 95% muslims and probably not used to seeing people of different beliefs around them.
And they said education is answer to everything.

Clearly it's not.... wasn't it you who went to protest/riot against making the film about a fictional princess?

 

[Yossarian]

Because at some point, the country accepted your parents and let them immigrate. They immigrated in search of a better life. Given that people from the subcontinent still want to immigrate, I would say it is safe to say that they expect a better life there.

I am not saying that you have perform any actions that your white neighbor is not required to do. Being grateful is just a thought, an acknowledgement that the society you live in at some point gave an opportunity for a better life to immigrants who were your ancestors. Of course, they have their own interests too, however altruism is part of their motives.

So how far back should one go with this 'gratefulness'? Since the parents immigrated/arrived? Grandparents? 3...4...5 generations back? 50 years? 100 years? 500+ years back in time?

And if one's ancestors, from generation to generation, have moved from/to, from/to other countries before you/them ending up where you are, should you also feel grateful to each of these 'stepping stone' countries that let in your ancestors?

Or perhaps this is something specific to expat Indians only, whose ancestors have been living in the sub-Continent for so long that history does not recall where they originated from? And perhaps that's why they're so grateful for having the opportunity to venture out of those lands?

 

[TM Riddle]

Clearly it's not.... wasn't it you who went to protest/riot against making the film about a fictional princess?

First she wasn't fictional and I agree the protest should have been peaceful.
second , Yes I have done some terrible things in my life but I was young and still in college having recently been elected as the president of student union.Mistakes happen.
But what's the excuse of some your ilk(not directly accusing you) who are middle aged having sons of my age and yet still hold such backward views despite having lived almost all their life in west?

 

[Napa]

So how far back should one go with this 'gratefulness'? Since the parents immigrated/arrived? Grandparents? 3...4...5 generations back? 50 years? 100 years? 500+ years back in time?

That's for you to decide.

And if one's ancestors, from generation to generation, have moved from/to, from/to other countries before you/them ending up where you are, should you also feel grateful to each of these 'stepping stone' countries that let in your ancestors?

Sure, why not? Giving thanks is good for the soul.

Or perhaps this is something specific to expat Indians only, whose ancestors have been living in the sub-Continent for so long that history does not recall where they originated from? And perhaps that's why they're so grateful for having the opportunity to venture out of those lands?

It is easy to recall where they came from thanks to population genetics.

 

[Yossarian]

That's for you to decide.

But you're the one stating that one should be grateful.
As far as I'm concerned, I've nothing to be grateful for. When I moved to live/work in the Middle East I wasn't required to be grateful to them for paying me what I demanded, just as they weren't required to be grateful to me for providing them with my services and expertise. They benefited from hosting me just as I benefited by being paid handsomely.
Similarly, when I was transferred by my employer to go and live/work in the USA for a few years, there was no requirement for me to be grateful to the Americans for being allowed to live/work there, just as I didn't require them to be grateful to me for providing them my services and expertise.

Sure, why not? Giving thanks is good for the soul.

If showing gratitude is good for your soul then who am I to argue. Each to his/her own.

It is easy to recall where they came from thanks to population genetics.

Glad to read that Indian expats need to delve into population genetics rather than relying upon ancestral and historical records to understand where their ancestors came from when they arrived in the sub-Continent..

 

[Napa]

But you're the one stating that one should be grateful.
As far as I'm concerned, I've nothing to be grateful for. When I moved to live/work in the Middle East I wasn't required to be grateful to them for paying me what I demanded, just as they weren't required to be grateful to me for providing them with my services and expertise.

Middle East was just work. They did not accept you as a part of their country by giving you citizenship like the US and UK do.

Glad to read that Indian expats need to delve into population genetics rather than relying upon ancestral and historical records to understand where their ancestors came from when they arrived in the sub-Continent.

Not only true for Indians, it is true for Pakistanis too.

 

[Yossarian]

Middle East was just work. They did not accept you as a part of their country by giving you citizenship like the US and UK do.

I wasn't interest in having their citizenship. I just wanted their money in return for my services and expertise. Same goes for when I moved to the USA (- you ignored that part from my post), even though I could have requested my employer to allow me to stay there on a permanent basis (gaining a Green Card and eventual US citizenship would not have been a problem given my circumstances - many of my colleagues had done just that), but I insisted upon moving back in order to enhance my prospects of promotion within the company.

Not only true for Indians, it is true for Pakistanis too.

So now you're also an expert on Pakistanis? Had I said similar about Indians, you'd have shot me down.

 

[Napa]

So now you're also an expert on Pakistanis? Had I said similar about Indians, you'd have shot me down.

Yes, I have looked at the Y-chromosome haplogroup and the mtDNA haplogroup data for the Pakistani communities. So I actually do know more about your ancestry than you do.

Ancestral and historical records are far inferior to DNA data for the purposes of determining ancestry.

 

[Yossarian]

Yes, I have looked at the Y-chromosome haplogroup and the mtDNA haplogroup data for the Pakistani communities. So I actually do know more about your ancestry than you do.

Ancestral and historical records are far inferior to DNA data for the purposes of determining ancestry.

Don't try being presumptuous as to my ancestral history. How do you know my ancestors did not originate from central Asia, or China, or Africa, or Arabia, or Persia, or from the armies of Alexander the Great, or ..or ..
One things for certain though, going by my and the rest of my extended family's features, there's no way on earth my recent ancestors (ie last few hundred years or so) have anything in common with the vast majority of Indians or peoples of the sub-Continent east of the river Indus.

 

[Tusker]

The idea that slaves built "much" of the US is just another liberal myth. Canada did not have slaves and did about as well. [MENTION=134300]Tusker[/MENTION]

I concur ... the America we see and recognize today is a direct result of being #1 in scientific research, innovation and discovery for more than a century ... most of the inventions we take for granted today happened in the USA long AFTER slavery was abolished.

This is not to undermine or speak lightly the contributions of the unfortunate people that suffered from America's past history with slavery but very little of what they contributed can be associated to the current day modern America the superpower. Slavery does not lend itself to progress of any kind.

 

[Napa]

Don't try being presumptuous as to my ancestral history. How do you know my ancestors did not originate from central Asia, or China, or Africa, or Arabia, or Persia, or from the armies of Alexander the Great, or ..or ..
One things for certain though, going by my and the rest of my extended family's features, there's no way on earth my recent ancestors (ie last few hundred years or so) have anything in common with the vast majority of Indians or peoples of the sub-Continent east of the river Indus.

You obviously do not understand science. If you wish you can read up about population genetics. I don't have anything more to say.

 

[Yossarian]

You obviously do not understand science. If you wish you can read up about population genetics. I don't have anything more to say.

Oh I understand all right. I also understand that when someone states "So I actually do know more about your ancestry than you do" to an individual they've only interacted with on an internet forum, and know nothing about them other than the fact they are posting on a Pakistani forum, and is making the statement based on some reports they've read somewhere, then that individual is ... ah..it's not worth me stating the obvious and stooping so low down to your level.

 

[sshakir411]

Many Indians still support Trump even after the recent hate crime shooting that killed 2 or 3 Indians.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Many Indians still support Trump even after the recent hate crime shooting that killed 2 or 3 Indians.

Maybe they are grateful that only 2 or 3 were killed.

 

[Yossarian]

Maybe they are grateful that only 2 or 3 were killed.

Being grateful seems to be something they're good at. Probably explains their humbleness. Mind you, it seems to work, all this gratefulness and humbleness. They're dismissed as being meek and tame, which allows them to ingratiate themselves amongst the locals, but then ..poof... before you know it they've taken over.

The Pakistanis on the other hand are far too belligerent and seen as far too demanding, always wanting equality and to be treated with respect. And look how far that gets them - nowhere! Not as far as the humble Indians anyway. The Pakistanis need to learn from the Indians the ways of being humble and grateful. Only then can the Pakistanis progress.

 

[Napa]

Oh I understand all right. I also understand that when someone states "So I actually do know more about your ancestry than you do" to an individual they've only interacted with on an internet forum, and know nothing about them other than the fact they are posting on a Pakistani forum, and is making the statement based on some reports they've read somewhere, then that individual is ... ah..it's not worth me stating the obvious and stooping so low down to your level.

I will make one last reply. I assumed you are Pakistani, if that is not true then I made a mistake.

There are many myths that circulate about the ancestry of the people of the subcontinent that have been disproven by DNA analysis. One popular myth is that there is significant Macedonian ancestry via Alexander. Based on their looks, some SCians are especially prone to believe Macedonian or European ancestry (as you sort of seemed to imply).

Fact is that there is no significant Macedonian ancestry in the SC. The Macedonian male Y-halplogroup is R1b. Alexander was not Grecian, rather he came from a land north of ancient Greece. There is very little of the R1b haplogroup in the SC, and it certainly isn't concentrated in Pakistan. The other Indo-European haplogroup is R1a. This haplogroup is common to the people who historically called themselves "Arjo", "Arya" etc, like the ancient Greeks, Persians and Indians. The highest concentration of this haplogroup occurs among the Bengali Brahmins:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_R1a_frequency_by_population

Intermediate Indian castes like the Yadavs also have very high frequencies of about 40%, which is about the same as the Scandinavians. The difference is that the other common Scandinavian male ancestry haplogroup I is absent in the SC, rather we have H.

The common male haplogroup in all lands where Indo-European languages are spoken is R (that is R1a, R1b and R2), whether it be Americans, Brits, French, Germans, Ukrainian, Russians, Italians, Spaniards, Iranians, Pakistanis or Indians.

"there's no way on earth my recent ancestors (ie last few hundred years or so) have anything in common with the vast majority of Indians or peoples of the sub-Continent east of the river Indus". You are very mistaken. Populations especially the matrilineal lines are very stable. Gene pools do not change in a "few hundred" years, unless there is invasion, genocide and settlement by the conquerors (as happened in Turkey, the Americas and to a limited extent in Persia).

 

[Yossarian]

I will make one last reply. I assumed you are Pakistani, if that is not true then I made a mistake.

What's any of that got to do with the price of tea in China?

You stated

"So I actually do know more about your ancestry than you do"

Let that sink in for a moment.

I now repeat this for you to have another go at trying to understand what I wrote in response.

"How do you know my ancestors did not originate from central Asia, or China, or Africa, or Arabia, or Persia, or from the armies of Alexander the Great, or ..or ..?"

Did you see that? "my ancestors", not those of some statistical Pakistani, but mine, someone you only know via an internet discussion forum.

"there's no way on earth my recent ancestors (ie last few hundred years or so) have anything in common with the vast majority of Indians or peoples of the sub-Continent east of the river Indus". You are very mistaken. Populations especially the matrilineal lines are very stable. Gene pools do not change in a "few hundred" years, unless there is invasion, genocide and settlement by the conquerors (as happened in Turkey, the Americas and to a limited extent in Persia).

I am mistaken as to the background of my ancestors, whereas you think you know who they were and where they came from?

Even though you have no idea as to what I look like, whether I'm a blonde blue eyed 6'6" tall white skinned individual with north European looks, or a 4' 6" midget with curly black hair and skin as dark as charcoal, whether I have a long beaked nose of that of an Arab, or small squinty eyes of a Chinese, whether I have the wide nostrils and physique of a West African, or the bulk of a Samoan, or a cross between some or all of them!

Hence I stick by my comment

"there's no way on earth my recent ancestors (ie last few hundred years or so) have anything in common with the vast majority of Indians or peoples of the sub-Continent east of the river Indus"

And I am extremely grateful to God for that.

See, I too can show gratefulness under certain circumstances.