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India's young fast bowling factory - 38 better bowlers than Naseem Shah?

Nikhil_cric said:
Him, Shaheen, Haris, Wasim Jnr. and Usama Mir would be the best bowling attack going into the World Cup. Should make Pakistan favourites.
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Shouldn't.

I rate our white ball attack as best in world right now but beyond the top 3, that's a very fragile batting lineup and they suck vs spin.
 
shamaan said:
I expect Australia and England to beat us if the pitch is flat.
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England are the most likely side. Australia are selecting too conservatively with their batting. They needed to bring in Matthew Short, Caleb Jewell, Josh Philippe into the mix. If they had these guys along with Marsh, Head, Warner, Maxwell, Green, Inglis to select a batting lineup, I'd have backed them to go all the way.

But that's not happening
 
Let me guess, It's the evil selection committee that's not selecting these legendary bowlers. Naseem's a pretty good bowler so at least 10 of these guys from Ind must be competing for GOAT status.

An unbelievable amount of talent. :geek:
 
India does not have any outstanding speed demons at the moment. However, India does have a core of Bumrah, Shami, Siraj and Arshdeep. These are 140k bowlers and have some skills. All of these are 30 or under except Shami who is 32. So these guys will be around for at least another 5 years except Shami.

There is no comparison with Pakistan though who has bowlers that can bowl in excess of 150k's for fun and also move the ball. India does not have a single bowler that can do that.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
England are the most likely side. Australia are selecting too conservatively with their batting. They needed to bring in Matthew Short, Caleb Jewell, Josh Philippe into the mix. If they had these guys along with Marsh, Head, Warner, Maxwell, Green, Inglis to select a batting lineup, I'd have backed them to go all the way.

But that's not happening
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I don't really know them players so can't comment :)
 
Champ_Pal said:
India does not have any outstanding speed demons at the moment. However, India does have a core of Bumrah, Shami, Siraj and Arshdeep. These are 140k bowlers and have some skills. All of these are 30 or under except Shami who is 32. So these guys will be around for at least another 5 years except Shami.

There is no comparison with Pakistan though who has bowlers that can bowl in excess of 150k's for fun and also move the ball. India does not have a single bowler that can do that.
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If Bumrah is fit, Ind will be handful to all teams
 
Cricket Warrior said:
he seems fit to me.. bowled really well against Ireland.
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Bumrah is a good bowler but extremely overhyped. He often goes missing in the biggest moments and against the biggest opposition. Doesn't he average almost 50 against arch rivals Pakistan? And almost 40 against Australia?

In fact, just had a look at his bowling average against Pak, Eng, Aus, NZ and SA, imo some of the best tournament sides and in tournament cricket he averages 35....this is not an all time bowler. So I don't think any of the favourites in this tournament are quaking in their boots if Bumrah is fit.
 
I don't know if the New all format pace sensation, Mukesh Kumar, is one of the 38 bowlers.
 
Bilal7 said:
You can assemble any five of India's greatest bowlers and they would have conceded at least 800 runs on this pitch against this English batting lineup.

Naseem is still a teenager and bowled his heart out here, with Haris injured. He's not the finished article yet but he will become a world class bowler very soon.
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Lol. Brother Bilal was, is and always will be clueless .
 
Naseem is one of the worst bowlers in history of Test cricket. India can field better bowlers than him in their A team.
 
Mamoon said:
Naseem is one of the worst bowlers in history of Test cricket. India can field better bowlers than him in their A team.
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Naseem may have a good potential but what's the use of that when you can't put that in practice and show it to the world. Pakistani bowlers need to play long format matches in the sort of pitches, the board prepares for test matches
 
Mamoon said:
Naseem is one of the worst bowlers in history of Test cricket. India can field better bowlers than him in their A team.
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I have to now agree with you. Naseem has been hyped big time and he has now had more than enough time to deliver match winning performances.

In the same amount of time Mohd Siraj has won numerous games for India and is among the best fast bowlers in the world now. Naseem is no better than Mohd Ali and Khurram Shehzad, atleast Ali and Shehzad have come through a proper domestic process and they go about their jobs without any social media hype.

If Ali and Shehzad are given the same kind of backing than Naseem has received in the last 5 years, they will churn out better numbers than him.
 
Mamoon said:
Naseem is one of the worst bowlers in history of Test cricket. India can field better bowlers than him in their A team.
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He was the only bowler who was troubling BD batters and took 3 wickets... other all were just looking clueless on this wicket
 
Josh said:
Naseem may have a good potential but what's the use of that when you can't put that in practice and show it to the world. Pakistani bowlers need to play long format matches in the sort of pitches, the board prepares for test matches
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Potential is bakwaaas, what you actually deliver is the real deal. If you don't deliver after many chances it means you never had any potential to begin with.

Mohd Sami played for Pakistan over a period of 16 years based on so called potential than actual performances whereas in any other country he would have been discarded for good knowing full well he didn't have what it took at the international level
 
Josh said:
Naseem may have a good potential but what's the use of that when you can't put that in practice and show it to the world. Pakistani bowlers need to play long format matches in the sort of pitches, the board prepares for test matches
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People have been talking about his potential since 2019 but it is clear that he doesn’t have the chops.

He is a typical Pakistani fast bowler aka soda bottle - he makes a loud pop but there is nothing inside. The fizz doesn’t last.

He has a pretty action and can bowl some lovely deliveries, but it takes a lot more than that to be a successful bowler and he doesn’t have those qualities.

He averages 34 and he is never bringing that average below 29 regardless of the pitches that he bowls on which has become the new favorite excuse.

He is the same bowler who went to Australia, England and New Zealand and failed. He has failed everywhere.

The excuses doesn’t stop - he is either too young, or mourning the dead, or misused by his captain, or bowling on unhelpful wickets. It always something else and not Nadeem’s shortcomings.
 
Cricket Warrior said:
He was the only bowler who was troubling BD batters and took 3 wickets... other all were just looking clueless on this wicket
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Khurram Shehzad looked the most potent of the pacers. Barring the first spell with the first new ball, Naseem ran out of gas afterwards which tbh is the story with all the Pakistani pacers as they have become too used to the T20 formats.
 
Cricket Warrior said:
He was the only bowler who was troubling BD batters and took 3 wickets... other all were just looking clueless on this wicket
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His awful numbers don’t lie. There is a consistent pattern with him across all conditions and all teams so there must be something wrong with him.

If he was as good as his fans think, he would be running through sides on flat wickets too especially against Bangladeshi batsmen.

Cricket history is full of examples where fast bowlers won matches for their teams on dead wickets.

Pakistan needed a 5 fer or a 6 fer from him, not a 3 fer and a pasting at the hands of Das.
 
Savak said:
Potential is bakwaaas, what you actually deliver is the real deal. If you don't deliver after many chances it means you never had any potential to begin with.

Mohd Sami played for Pakistan over a period of 16 years based on so called potential than actual performances whereas in any other country he would have been discarded for good knowing full well he didn't have what it took at the international level
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Obviously hard to argue with that but there has been few moments of brilliance from him but no real consistency and no gas after a initial 3-4 overs. I guess issue is also of never bowling long spells in domestic cricket and developing those muscle. Shouldn't have been fast tracked to test team for sure.
 
The Naseem equivalent in terms of batting would be someone who hits a few pretty cover drives every innings but always ends up scoring 30-35 maximum.
 
Mamoon said:
His awful numbers don’t lie. There is a consistent pattern with him across all conditions and all teams so there must be something wrong with him.

If he was as good as his fans think, he would be running through sides on flat wickets too especially against Bangladeshi batsmen.

Cricket history is full of examples where fast bowlers won matches for their teams on dead wickets.

Pakistan needed a 5 fer or a 6 fer from him, not a 3 fer and a pasting at the hands of Das.
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Well, I take your argument but the fact is that Pakistan lost this game due to their pathetic batting otherwise, this match could have easily ended in a draw.
 
Mamoon said:
People have been talking about his potential since 2019 but it is clear that he doesn’t have the chops.

He is a typical Pakistani fast bowler aka soda bottle - he makes a loud pop but there is nothing inside. The fizz doesn’t last.

He has a pretty action and can bowl some lovely deliveries, but it takes a lot more than that to be a successful bowler and he doesn’t have those qualities.

He averages 34 and he is never bringing that average below 29 regardless of the pitches that he bowls on which has become the new favorite excuse.

He is the same bowler who went to Australia, England and New Zealand and failed. He has failed everywhere.

The excuses doesn’t stop - he is either too young, or mourning the dead, or misused by his captain, or bowling on unhelpful wickets. It always something else and not Nadeem’s shortcomings.
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Well you do have some solid argument to back that and you are probably right too. I will wait for this test season to be over let's see if he is able to make some amends.
 
Mamoon said:
The Naseem equivalent in terms of batting would be someone who hits a few pretty cover drives every innings but always ends up scoring 30-35 maximum.
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I used to doubt you regarding lack of talent and Naseem Shah etc..you were 100% correct. Pakistan is a minnow and worse than Bangladesh. Babar, Shaheen and Naseem act like they're some world beaters. I just hope someone has the courage to drop them and send them to domestic cricket. They shouldn't get any NOC for T20 leagues. Let them toil it out in Quaid e Azam trophy
 
One of the serious misconception among Pak fans is about raw pace. Raw pace is useless without discipline in line & length.

Wasim was an ATG due to his mastery over it and make the ball talk. But not due to his pace.
Heck, even Kumble achieved so much despite not being much turner of the ball due to his control.

We can have 1 Bumrah than 10 Haris Rauf’s any day. Even Hardik Pandya bowls quicker than Bumrah at times but cant make a comprison with the two.

Naseem was overhyped from the start IMO but atleast Shaheen was able produce prodigious Swing at the start. But he became a one trick pony who always bowls in-swing at full length.

Many posters outright looked down on Indian pace attack. But they are one of the best in the world now at any conditions credit to Bumrah.

And BCCI should be given the credit as well for taking care of Bumrah. After his injury, he looked even more potent.

To answer this thread, I think Bumrah-Shami combo is equivalent to 38 fast bowling trundlers. What do u say?😉
 
Rather than saying we have natural talent, India should give huge pay checks to the bowling coaches for their hame plan.

I personally dont like Siraj. But I feel he gets wickets due to the game plan. Even Arshadeep for instance. That penultimate in WT20 2024, he bowled according to the game plan and gave only 2/3 runs. He got away with Miller on strike with couple of singles not giving him room to stretch his arms.
 
Mamoon said:
He averages 34 and he is never bringing that average below 29 regardless of the pitches that he bowls on which has become the new favorite excuse.
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An average of 30-32 would also be good enough if he takes 200+wkts, Pakistan haven't even produced a single bowler like that since the turn of the century.
 
Theanonymousone said:
Rather than saying we have natural talent, India should give huge pay checks to the bowling coaches for their hame plan.

I personally dont like Siraj. But I feel he gets wickets due to the game plan. Even Arshadeep for instance. That penultimate in WT20 2024, he bowled according to the game plan and gave only 2/3 runs. He got away with Miller on strike with couple of singles not giving him room to stretch his arms.
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Being able bowl as per he bowling plan is also " natural talent "

Most people have wrong idea of " talent". Talent is not just about playing gorgeous cover drive or flashy ramp shots or bowling banana swingers. Its also about bowling with intelligence & maturity & ability to construct big innings without playing flashy strokes
 
NishanKonar said:
Being able bowl as per he bowling plan is also " natural talent "

Most people have wrong idea of " talent". Talent is not just about playing gorgeous cover drive or flashy ramp shots or bowling banana swingers. Its also about bowling with intelligence & maturity & ability to construct big innings without playing flashy strokes
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I am not sure

Being able to bowl according to the game plan is the basic quality, a bowler should possess.

Else, whats the difference between a spray gun and a bowler. One can understand if the bowlers miss the mark by inches. If the field is set for a wide-yorker, one can miss the yorker and bowl a full length on the outside off-stump. But if they even cannot do that and bowl a short length / leg-side, he shouldn't be in the side and go back to club cricket to improve.

Its not a natural talent that one has to be gifted. One can achieve with practice rigorously. Not everyone can bowl like Wasim Akram /Bumrah’s yorkers with such accuracy. But a bare minimum discipline is a standard.

I remember in the USA ve Pak T20, Rauf bowled a full length ball on the offside, while the mid-off is up in the circle. I can see the agony on Babar’s face screaming at Rauf that Mid-off is up.

Now, whether bowling short of a length is a good strategy or not is up for debate but atleast bowl it according to the field.

One can criticize Babar as a captain on his strategies but what can he do if bowlers dong bowl according to the field
 
Naseem needs to up his game with higher energy levels and real aggression. He isn't young and promising anymore- he is in his mid 20s and there should be no excuses.
 
T Natarajan has better test bowling performance right now than Naseem..
 
jeeteshssaxena said:
An average of 30-32 would also be good enough if he takes 200+wkts, Pakistan haven't even produced a single bowler like that since the turn of the century.
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Naseem is a walking injury and has poor stamina. Taking 200 Test wickets would mean playing for another 6-7 years and he doesn’t have the mileage in him.
 
Every time he gets a pasting , he is either "injured" or gets "rested" . Said this since his debut, he's more fragile than PCT is letting on.
 
NishanKonar said:
Being able bowl as per he bowling plan is also " natural talent "

Most people have wrong idea of " talent". Talent is not just about playing gorgeous cover drive or flashy ramp shots or bowling banana swingers. Its also about bowling with intelligence & maturity & ability to construct big innings without playing flashy strokes
Click to expand...
That's exactly the problem with Pakistan, they want to contend with the potential, rather than focus on actual execution.

It's nature vs nurture and India has done well with nurture.
 
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