Individual Performance Track - New Era T20I Team (Under Mike Hesson and Salman Ali Agha)

[mominsaigol]

People are also forgetting why Farhan is in the team over Babar.

They both played PSL against the sane attacks and same bowlers at the same opening position.

Farhan destroyed him. Babar had a horrible PSL with onpy one innings of 94 of 50 being his saving grace.

If Farhan outperformed babar on the same pitch vs the same bowlers, their is no reason t9 assume babar would do better in dubai which is a significantly harder pitch.

In psl it was clear that form wise it was Farhan > Babar > Saim based of performances.

Based of what are people assuming Babar would perform better in UAE?

Total braindead hogwash.

I challenge anyone including @BouncerGuy @Mamoon @Major @Ahmed216 @Nikhil_cric

And anyone else to prove me wrong on this.

If you want babar to return, fine as I agree even in PSL he proved he had better form then Saim post injury. No arguments their.

But why are you people forgetting why Babar was dropped for Farhan in the first place?

2016-2021 was ages ago. To illustrate how long ago it was, since 2021 we got advancements in AI, Advancements in medicine combating covid, and the new Apple vision Pro 3 models released thrice as well as a tesla Diner Cafe .

4 YEARS, I REPEAT 4 YEARS, thats over 1200 days .

Their is literally no reason, I repeat no reason to assume that Babar would perform better then Farhan in uae when farhan walked all over him in PSL and babar himself got ragdolled by every team not named Ireland and Canada. Even USA and Zimbabwe ragdolled him.

I'm also sick of the 2022 wc excuse. Ironically you lot are forgetting haris got us in semi's. Excluding a good semi final knock, babar and rizwan had nothing to do with it.

Steve Smith won 2023 wc, Mitchell atarc won 2021 t20 wc but everyone knows that they were a thorn to Aus not a helping hand given how awful they were in these 2 editions.

 

[Rana]

Yes... Intent goes under dust when it comes to salman

And the ‘team first’ mantra takes a hike as well for you when Babar and Rizwan are questioned!

 

[BouncerGuy]

And the ‘team first’ mantra takes a hike as well for you when Babar and Rizwan are questioned!

Stats don't lie brother.. Salman's performance has been worse than anyone else as captain.

 

[Rana]

Stats don't lie brother.. Salman's performance has been worse than anyone else as captain.

Wins don’t lie either

He’s doing fine as captain

You all made this stupid mistake with Sarfaraz

The team he is building plays solely for Pakistan. Let them grow!

 

[RyanRyan10]

Salman's strike rates are better than Babar's in the tests and the odis. He can get better in t20is too.

 

[mominsaigol]

Wins don’t lie either

He’s doing fine as captain

You all made this stupid mistake with Sarfaraz

The team he is building plays solely for Pakistan. Let them grow!

The issue is assuming babar and rizwan would just do better then Farhan and Fakhar. I can see them doing better then saim yes.

They all played PSL together. We watched the same cup didnt we? .

And now excuses are showing up that Farhan is just a domestic bully, Fakhar is only a psl superstar.

Like what's the logic? Fakhar and Farhan are experts are bashing C tier bowlers while ba/riz suck at it but Babar and Rizwan are experts are bashing ATG legends?

How does that moronic Concept and Logic even work or manifest to begin with?

 

[Devadwal]

Stats when Pakistan posted Less than 135 Runs in T20Is

Under Agha - 10 Times (in 25 Matches)
Under Babar - 6 Times (80+ Matches)
Under Shadab - 2 Times
Under Shaheen/Rizwan - Once

 

[BouncerGuy]

Stats when Pakistan posted Less than 135 Runs in T20Is

Under Agha - 10 Times (in 25 Matches)
Under Babar - 6 Times (80+ Matches)
Under Shadab - 2 Times
Under Shaheen/Rizwan - Once

Bro... why are you sharing facts... please stop... @Mamoon stop him please

 

[mominsaigol]

Ig I'm invisible

 

[Ahmed216]

I challenge anyone including @BouncerGuy @Mamoon @Major @Ahmed216 @Nikhil_cric

And anyone else to prove me wrong on this.

If you want babar to return, fine as I agree even in PSL he proved he had better form then Saim post injury. No arguments their.

But why are you people forgetting why Babar was dropped for Farhan in the first place?

2016-2021 was ages ago. To illustrate how long ago it was, since 2021 we got advancements in AI, Advancements in medicine combating covid, and the new Apple vision Pro 3 models released thrice as well as a tesla Diner Cafe .

4 YEARS, I REPEAT 4 YEARS, thats over 1200 days .

Their is literally no reason, I repeat no reason to assume that Babar would perform better then Farhan in uae when farhan walked all over him in PSL and babar himself got ragdolled by every team not named Ireland and Canada. Even USA and Zimbabwe ragdolled him.

I'm also sick of the 2022 wc excuse. Ironically you lot are forgetting haris got us in semi's. Excluding a good semi final knock, babar and rizwan had nothing to do with it.

Steve Smith won 2023 wc, Mitchell atarc won 2021 t20 wc but everyone knows that they were a thorn to Aus not a helping hand given how awful they were in these 2 editions.

I don't want Babar to be return and be a part of this corrupt setup.

And please stop comparing Farhan with Babar. As I've been stressing even an out of form babar is better than likes of him Haris Agha etc

What is Babar's worst so far ? Must be year 2024 because he was dropped on its basis. He avgd 33 and SR of 133.

What is Sahibzada's peak? Must be right now as you guys have been telling us.
Avg of 6 and SR 104 in 2024
Avg of 26 and SR of 128 in 2025(against minnows mostly)

Please understand Babar is on a different level. He's a proven performer.

 

[mominsaigol]

I don't want Babar to be return and be a part of this corrupt setup.

And please stop comparing Farhan with Babar. As I've been stressing even an out of form babar is better than likes of him Haris Agha etc

What is Babar's worst so far ? Must be year 2024 because he was dropped on its basis. He avgd 33 and SR of 133.

What is Sahibzada's peak? Must be right now as you guys have been telling us.
Avg of 6 and SR 104 in 2024
Avg of 26 and SR of 128 in 2025(against minnows mostly)

Please understand Babar is on a different level. He's a proven performer.

Also look at the pitch and conditons before determining the numbers

 

[Mamoon]

I challenge anyone including @BouncerGuy @Mamoon @Major @Ahmed216 @Nikhil_cric

And anyone else to prove me wrong on this.

If you want babar to return, fine as I agree even in PSL he proved he had better form then Saim post injury. No arguments their.

But why are you people forgetting why Babar was dropped for Farhan in the first place?

2016-2021 was ages ago. To illustrate how long ago it was, since 2021 we got advancements in AI, Advancements in medicine combating covid, and the new Apple vision Pro 3 models released thrice as well as a tesla Diner Cafe .

4 YEARS, I REPEAT 4 YEARS, thats over 1200 days .

Their is literally no reason, I repeat no reason to assume that Babar would perform better then Farhan in uae when farhan walked all over him in PSL and babar himself got ragdolled by every team not named Ireland and Canada. Even USA and Zimbabwe ragdolled him.

I'm also sick of the 2022 wc excuse. Ironically you lot are forgetting haris got us in semi's. Excluding a good semi final knock, babar and rizwan had nothing to do with it.

Steve Smith won 2023 wc, Mitchell atarc won 2021 t20 wc but everyone knows that they were a thorn to Aus not a helping hand given how awful they were in these 2 editions.

There is something called international pedigree. Babar has that but Farhan does not. Babar is a proven world class player albeit in poor form, and you cannot drop your best batsman when you clearly don’t have enough batting depth in the country.

Just because Farhan did better than an out of form Babar doesn’t mean the he is worthy of selection, because the chances of Babar regaining his form are higher than the chances of Farhan ever becoming successful in international cricket, let alone reaching the heights that Babar has in his career.

Besides, it’s not like he is a prodigy. He is roughly the same age as Babar, so th age factor isn’t relevant either.

I have said this before and I will say it again — the success of Pakistan in white ball cricket hinges on the performance of Babar, Rizwan and Shaheen — your three best white ball players.

They have been at the heart of 90% of Pakistan’s major wins in white ball cricket in the last 5 years. When these three play well, Pakistan is a decent team. When they don’t play well or are not part of the team, Pakistan is a poor team.

It is PCB’s and Pakistani fans’ delusion that Pakistan is ready to move on from those two and that their batting is stronger without them.

It is abundantly clear that Farhan and Haris are not good enough to replace Babar and Rizwan and therefore, they do not merit selection over those two.

PCB tried to move on from Shaheen as well but they realized their folly quickly and took a U-turn on that, and they will do the same with Babar and Rizwan too because the Asia Cup was revealed a lot of bitter truths.

PCB will die on this hill very soon, and anyone who is delusional enough to think that Babar and Rizwan’s T20I careers are over will have to wait their hat soon.

You mentioned in the other thread that the team playing today is stronger than the one that played in T20 World Cup last year. While the middle-order (only marginally) and spin attack (significantly) are better, the top-order is significantly weaker because any Pakistan team with Babar and Rizwan is stronger than any Pakistan team without those two.

Babar and Rizwan will be replaced one day and it will happen organically. Eventually they will get old and better players will come along, just like they replaced those before them. However, PCB can’t force inferior players like Farhan and Haris down our throats just because they want to move on from them.

There isn't a single team in the world the would pick Farhan and Haris over Babar and Rizwan. There isn’t a single bowling attack that would rather bowl to Babar and Rizwan over Farhan and Haris.

There is no world where Babar and Rizwan don’t make the best Pakistan XI in every format.

 

[Mamoon]

Also look at the pitch and conditons before determining the numbers

Farhan will never be a better batsman than Babar in international cricket because he doesn’t have his talent. As simple as that.

Only PCB can be dumb enough to drop Babar for Farhan.

 

[Rana]

I don't want Babar to be return and be a part of this corrupt setup.

Jazakallah

Bari Mehrbani aapki

No one is calling him back anyways.

 

[Ahmed216]

Also look at the pitch and conditons before determining the numbers

I feel the worst is yet to come for Mr. Static feet Farhan when he travels to countries like South Africa NZ England. Bobby has a pretty good away record too.

Sahibzada may be selfless, more of a team man and flexible but in the end what matters is 'runs'

 

[mominsaigol]

I feel the worst is yet to come for Mr. Static feet Farhan when he travels to countries like South Africa NZ England. Bobby has a pretty good away record too.

Sahibzada may be selfless, more of a team man and flexible but in the end what matters is 'runs'

Jazakallah

Bari Mehrbani aapki

No one is calling him back anyways.

Both of you are once again living in 2021.

Babar is obviously better then Farhan all time in the same way David Warner is better then Travis head as an odi batsmen.

Doesn't mean Warner will do better then Head now if he was to come back.

 

[Mamoon]

Both of you are once again living in 2021.

Babar is obviously better then Farhan all time in the same way David Warner is better then Travis head as an odi batsmen.

Doesn't mean Warner will do better then Head now if he was to come back.

This is a false comparison because Head is also a quality player who belongs at the international level.

In addition, Head is 7 years younger too, so there are not exactly the same generation.

Farhan and Babar are 12 months apart in terms of age, and Farhan doesn’t belong in international cricket while Babar is a top player going through a bad period.

No team can be stupid enough to pick Farhan over Babar. It is a Pakistan speciality.

 

[Ahmed216]

Both of you are once again living in 2021.

Babar is obviously better then Farhan all time in the same way David Warner is better then Travis head as an odi batsmen.

Doesn't mean Warner will do better then Head now if he was to come back.

Please don't mention Farhan and Head together. Tauheen hai yei

 

[Rana]

Please don't mention Farhan and Head together. Tauheen hai yei

For who?

Travis Head was once a struggler too who then broke his shackles and became immortal. It’s the heart of the player that made him immortal.

The problem with you Babar fans is you give him an elite status which is based on nothing.

Is it not tauheen to compare Babar with Kohli? Or Babar with Head??

 

[Ahmed216]

For who?

Travis Head was once a struggler too who then broke his shackles and became immortal. It’s the heart of the player that made him immortal.

The problem with you Babar fans is you give him an elite status which is based on nothing.

Is it not tauheen to compare Babar with Kohli? Or Babar with Head??

It's not only the heart. It's the heart combined with skills. And imo Farhan severely lacks the latter. Its fairly evident to me at least.

And I never compared Babar with any of Kohli and Head.

 

[mominsaigol]

This is a false comparison because Head is also a quality player who belongs at the international level.

In addition, Head is 7 years younger too, so there are not exactly the same generation.

Farhan and Babar are 12 months apart in terms of age, and Farhan doesn’t belong in international cricket while Babar is a top player going through a bad period.

No team can be stupid enough to pick Farhan over Babar. It is a Pakistan speciality.

I feel the worst is yet to come for Mr. Static feet Farhan when he travels to countries like South Africa NZ England. Bobby has a pretty good away record too.

Sahibzada may be selfless, more of a team man and flexible but in the end what matters is 'runs'

What i am saying is that none of your arguments are counfounded in reality.

Its all could have, would have, Should have.

The main crux of the argument is that Farhan is in the team as he outperformed babar in psl and babar did not help his case via 3 years of failing in international cricket.

Is farhan struggling? Yes, but their is no rhyme or reason as to why babar would do better if babar performed significantly worse against the same bowlers Farhan faced.

All this their are more chances of Babar coming back to form then Farhan becoming a good international quality player is another hypothetical. You cannot prove this claim as it is a belief not an actual factual notion.

 

[Mamoon]

What i am saying is that none of your arguments are counfounded in reality.

Its all could have, would have, Should have.

The main crux of the argument is that Farhan is in the team as he outperformed babar in psl and babar did not help his case via 3 years of failing in international cricket.

Is farhan struggling? Yes, but their is no rhyme or reason as to why babar would do better if babar performed significantly worse against the same bowlers Farhan faced.

All this their are more chances of Babar coming back to form then Farhan becoming a good international quality player is another hypothetical. You cannot prove this claim as it is a belief not an actual factual notion.

Babar and Rizwan are out of the team because of Naqvi’s agenda. This is why failures like Farhan and Haris have been selected and a mediocre clown like Agha has been made captain.

However, this agenda will die an ugly death very soon because it has backfired big time. Naqvi got owned on and off the pitch and his days are numbered.

Whoever replaces him will have enough sense to realize that you can’t keep your two best players out when your replacements are so average.

 

[mominsaigol]

Babar and Rizwan are out of the team because of Naqvi’s agenda. This is why failures like Farhan and Haris have been selected and a mediocre clown like Agha has been made captain.

However, this agenda will die an ugly death very soon because it has backfired big time. Naqvi got owned on and off the pitch and his days are numbered.

Whoever replaces him will have enough sense to realize that you can’t keep your two best players out when your replacements are so average.

Imagine they replace him with Aqib

 

[Mamoon]

Imagine they replace him with Aqib

I think we will end up with Misbah or maybe Hafeez as the next PCB Chairman.

 

[RidiculousMan]

@mominsaigol My simple argument is this.

If you have given so many chances to Rizwan and Babar. What's a season (till WT20 2026) given to youngsters?

If you don't like a particular youngster. They can be replaced. Replaced with another performing youngster. We don't need to go back to square 1 of RizBar style batting.

 

[cricketmania22]

Imagine they replace him with Aqib

Naqvi isn’t going anywhere until Asim Munir is the army chief.

 

[mominsaigol]

I think we will end up with Misbah or maybe Hafeez as the next PCB Chairman.

Kill me Now

 

[ads101]

@mominsaigol My simple argument is this.

If you have given so many chances to Rizwan and Babar. What's a season (till WT20 2026) given to youngsters?

If you don't like a particular youngster. They can be replaced. Replaced with another performing youngster. We don't need to go back to square 1 of RizBar style batting.

I feel similar. But there’s some differences.

I think who we’re trying are the best we have left. Have no choice but to stick. The alternatives are either less talented, lower domestic performance. Or guys who are so young who have hardly played domestic, who shouldn’t be rushed to international cricket. As some point you’ve got to stop the chopping and changing.

I also agree with others all these batsmen could be easily dropped on merit. And some have in the past going in on a run like this. Babar earnt cemented his spot early through performances unlike these guys. Rizwan showed promise in the longer formats, and was close to being dropped from the t20 side before almost instantly scoring runs as an opener. And with wicketkeepers in general you give them slightly longer runs as it’s tough to juggle both responsibilities early on. I feel the same with Haris. And even when Sarfraz came on the scene, he wasn’t given proper time to usurp Kamran akmal. When things finally clicked for him, you could see the difference in performances.

The run that Babar and Rizwan got as openers is a different situation from today. Usually you want a consistent string of performances which at least justifies giving you that long run. But if you can’t get it, what can you do. We just have to double down and hope it will eventually work.

But I’m not going to pretend these guys are performing to even the level of Rizwan and Babar were. They aren’t, got to face facts. But we have to stick with them to see if they can improve to eventually surpass that.

I’d also say if Babar regains form, you could easily slot him at 3 where we need a batsman like him. It’s not like he can’t be used in combination with our new strategy. There’s enough space. He just can’t be used as an opener in the current system without changing strategy.

 

[Mamoon]

@mominsaigol My simple argument is this.

If you have given so many chances to Rizwan and Babar. What's a season (till WT20 2026) given to youngsters?

If you don't like a particular youngster. They can be replaced. Replaced with another performing youngster. We don't need to go back to square 1 of RizBar style batting.

My argument is even more simpler. This isn’t a charity service where everyone deserves an equal chance.

Do Babar and Rizwan get into the best available T20 XI? The honest answer to this question is a resounding yes, and that will be the answer of anyone who has a functional brain.

This doesn’t mean that they are perfect or that they are beyond criticism or that they haven’t been poor.

The fundamental responsibility of any cricket board is to pick its best possible team, and considering the dearth of quality batsmen in Pakistan, it is a no-brainer that Babar and Rizwan are automatic picks for Pakistan.

 

[RidiculousMan]

I feel similar. But there’s some differences.

I think who we’re trying are the best we have left. Have no choice but to stick. The alternatives are either less talented, lower domestic performance. Or guys who are so young who have hardly played domestic, who shouldn’t be rushed to international cricket. As some point you’ve got to stop the chopping and changing.

I also agree with others all these batsmen could be easily dropped on merit. And some have in the past going in on a run like this. Babar earnt cemented his spot early through performances unlike these guys. Rizwan showed promise in the longer formats, and was close to being dropped from the t20 side before almost instantly scoring runs as an opener. And with wicketkeepers in general you give them slightly longer runs as it’s tough to juggle both responsibilities early on. I feel the same with Haris. And even when Sarfraz came on the scene, he wasn’t given proper time to usurp Kamran akmal. When things finally clicked for him, you could see the difference in performances.

The run that Babar and Rizwan got as openers is a different situation from today. Usually you want a consistent string of performances which at least justifies giving you that long run. But if you can’t get it, what can you do. We just have to double down and hope it will eventually work.

But I’m not going to pretend these guys are performing to even the level of Rizwan and Babar were. They aren’t, got to face facts. But we have to stick with them to see if they can improve to eventually surpass that.

I’d also say if Babar regains form, you could easily slot him at 3 where we need a batsman like him. It’s not like he can’t be used in combination with our new strategy. There’s enough space. He just can’t be used as an opener in the current system without changing strategy.

I have no problem with any individual. Babar and Rizwan are very welcome back in the team. But they have to abandon their old T20I method. It doesn't work anymore and we had a miserable batting time for years under them. Where only their averages ticked while team's batting suffered and the whole middle order was sacrificed. It was harsh for the likes of Asif Ali, Haider Ali, Iftikhar Ahmed, Azam Khan etc. Who's role was just to come and hit and justify their places also while playing at a very high strike rate.

The reason I support current team is cause the management and captain have promised to play the modern brand of batting. Some players have already shown that.

This Asia Cup in my opinion. Everyone has tried to play that modern brand of Cricket apart from Farhan and Salman. Salman I cannot understand why he's batting like this. Even though he has positive in Tri Series for the most part.

Salman is not the half the batter, Babar is. But people support him because he has formed a team that plays modern day Cricket. I know execution in batting is lacking in Asia Cup. The batting hasn't clicked yet. But still the approach is right for most of our batters.

If somebody fails. Look back into your domestic for other players. Solution is modern day Cricket. Not going back to the old style of RizBar batting.

 

[ads101]

I have no problem with any individual. Babar and Rizwan are very welcome back in the team. But they have to abandon their old T20I method. It doesn't work anymore and we had a miserable batting time for years under them. Where only their averages ticked while team's batting suffered and the whole middle order was sacrificed. It was harsh for the likes of Asif Ali, Haider Ali, Iftikhar Ahmed, Azam Khan etc. Who's role was just to come and hit and justify their places also while playing at a very high strike rate.

The reason I support current team is cause the management and captain have promised to play the modern brand of batting. Some players have already shown that.

This Asia Cup in my opinion. Everyone has tried to play that modern brand of Cricket apart from Farhan and Salman. Salman I cannot understand why he's batting like this. Even though he has positive in Tri Series for the most part.

Salman is not the half the batter, Babar is. But people support him because he has formed a team that plays modern day Cricket. I know execution in batting is lacking in Asia Cup. The batting hasn't clicked yet. But still the approach is right for most of our batters.

If somebody fails. Look back into your domestic for other players. Solution is modern day Cricket. Not going back to the old style of RizBar batting.

Yeah I’ve turned in Agha a bit. I supported him a lot before and was urging him to get into the team based on his performances in other formats. Even sticking with him when he was doing badly early on. I also am fine with him as captain.

But what I’m really seeing is someone who is batting slow, inflexible in their position and now even resulting in Hasan batting lower due to his inflexibleness and a lack of both hitting and inability to play top order. And he’s over 30, so not some youngster we back for long term. The more I watch him, the more he just feels out of place in this line up, I haven’t heard of a stabiliser player who can’t play top order, it seems a little ridiculous. He doesn’t even bowl much, Saim is now the guy you rely on for that. He feels like a complete passenger that is a misfit in the line up. This whole case of him being unselfish doesn’t feel like that these days it feels like the opposite now with others playing out of position because of him. And the worst of it he isn’t performing himself in either average nor sr.

Farhan has been slow in Asia cup, but he has tried to be aggressive in other matches. And the India match if all of our guys are getting out around him, I don’t blame him as much for just staying in. His issue was actually not taking singles that day, he actually was going for boundaries somehow. Agha however I’ve seen signs even before Asia cup.

What Agha is trying to do, Babar would do a much better job. And it doesn’t seem fair to keep Babar or some other batsman out for this.

I dunno what to do with him. If I was Agha at the very least I would take the hit to my own preferred position and allow Hasan to bat 4. It’s horrible how Hasan has been shifted from that position.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Among the Pakistan captains who have captained atleast in 10 matches Agha has the worst strike rate. He plays in the most modern era of T20 cricket where name of the game is strike rate.

 

[SportsWarrior]

He’s won 12 of his last 16 games for Pakistan

Pakistan supporters like you should be ashamed to gloat in wins against UAE, Oman, WI and to some extent even AFG and BD. What has happened to Pakistanis? They have a much higher ceiling than any of those teams who either play part time, or not even a country or just war ravaged country who have never played at home.

 

[SportsWarrior]

Rubbish

Babar and Rizwan will lose 2-1 at home to the Bangladesh side that toured

They would lose all 3 matches to Afghanistan in the tri series

They would definitely lose 2-1 if not 3-0 to West Indies

They would most certainly lose one of the two games to Oman and UAE.


You don’t know the hell we have escaped from! You have no idea about how seriously bad they dragged this team down!

All are speculations

 

[Rana]

Pakistan supporters like you should be ashamed to gloat in wins against UAE, Oman, WI and to some extent even AFG and BD. What has happened to Pakistanis? They have a much higher ceiling than any of those teams who either play part time, or not even a country or just war ravaged country who have never played at home.

I should be ashamed that the team I am supporting won 12/16 games?

What should I do if I don’t support them? Waise hi marr jaata hoon?

 

[Rana]

All are speculations

No.

These will most likely be the results.

These are Pakistan’s results since Hafeez tried to break the RizBar hegemony:

Lost 4-1 to NZ in NZ

Draw 2-2 to NZ at home

Lost 2-0 to England

Beat Ireland 2-1 away

Lost to USA+India (knocked out), beat Ireland and Canada

Lost 3-0 to Australia in Australia

Lost 2-0 to South Africa

- - - End of RizBar

That’s: 17 losses and 6 wins


Now what the hell do I do? Be sure Pakistan will win 12/16 with Babar and Rizwan playing??

 

[SportsWarrior]

Among the Pakistan captains who have captained atleast in 10 matches Agha has the worst strike rate. He plays in the most modern era of T20 cricket where name of the game is strike rate.

When you ar getting beaten by Shoaib Malik and Hafeez Saab you know you are cooked

 

[Rana]

That’s: 17 losses and 6 wins

Sorry,

It’s 15 loses and 8 wins

The 8 wins were against:

Ireland 3 times

Canada

NZ twice (it was their B team)

NZ main team.


We lost twice to NZ b, once to Ireland, once to USA

Babar played in all of these matches.

 

[SportsWarrior]

I should be ashamed that the team I am supporting won 12/16 games?

What should I do if I don’t support them? Waise hi marr jaata hoon?

Yeah you and supporters should be when the teams are UAE, OMAN, WI, BD, AFG etc. Pak plays some of these very low quality sides very often and it is easy to manipulate statistics. Not one in the top order looked like proper batsman in whatever I saw in Asia cup. This is supposed to be intent merchant team and yet except one no other top order bat even strikes at 130 with captain leading the way at 112. The one strikes above 130 looks hackish and won't survive one good bowling spell There is not a single top order batsman who even averages 25. Yes, to gloat about such wins by your team against minnows is shameful

Currently pakistan's best combination includes Babar, who is a league a over every player in the team, Rizwan probably the second best bat and Shaheen. They also need to bring back shadab in place of Agha, he can't bat worse than Agha and he will give you few good overs and great fielding. Team should be lead by Shaheen, who seems to have something in him which has resulted in multiple PSL wins. Agha has no place in any T20 team. Making him captain is a joke in itself

 

[SportsWarrior]

No.

These will most likely be the results.

These are Pakistan’s results since Hafeez tried to break the RizBar hegemony:

Lost 4-1 to NZ in NZ

Draw 2-2 to NZ at home

Lost 2-0 to England

Beat Ireland 2-1 away

Lost to USA+India (knocked out), beat Ireland and Canada

Lost 3-0 to Australia in Australia

Lost 2-0 to South Africa

- - - End of RizBar

That’s: 17 losses and 6 wins


Now what the hell do I do? Be sure Pakistan will win 12/16 with Babar and Rizwan playing??

Pak doesn't have skills now to compete against full strength Aus, Eng, I d and Nz. You can't worry about the results. They are exotcted. Losing to USA on a lottery pitch is also not something that happens all the time. Remember india also almost lost against Pak on the same pitch.

In t20 it is possible to have upsets even unbelievable upsets. That is why still believe Pak, BD and SL can win asia cup although india is overwhelming favorites

 

[Rana]

Yeah you and supporters should be when the teams are UAE, OMAN, WI, BD, AFG etc. Pak plays some of these very low quality sides very often and it is easy to manipulate statistics. Not one in the top order looked like proper batsman in whatever I saw in Asia cup. This is supposed to be intent merchant team and yet except one no other top order bat even strikes at 130 with captain leading the way at 112. The one strikes above 130 looks hackish and won't survive one good bowling spell There is not a single top order batsman who even averages 25. Yes, to gloat about such wins by your team against minnows is shameful

Currently pakistan's best combination includes Babar, who is a league a over every player in the team, Rizwan probably the second best bat and Shaheen. They also need to bring back shadab in place of Agha, he can't bat worse than Agha and he will give you few good overs and great fielding. Team should be lead by Shaheen, who seems to have something in him which has resulted in multiple PSL wins. Agha has no place in any T20 team. Making him captain is a joke in itself

Oh chall oye

I don’t have time for this nonsense

The current team is 1000% better off with those two returning


Cry all you want!

 

[SportsWarrior]

There is something called international pedigree. Babar has that but Farhan does not. Babar is a proven world class player albeit in poor form, and you cannot drop your best batsman when you clearly don’t have enough batting depth in the country.

Just because Farhan did better than an out of form Babar doesn’t mean the he is worthy of selection, because the chances of Babar regaining his form are higher than the chances of Farhan ever becoming successful in international cricket, let alone reaching the heights that Babar has in his career.

Besides, it’s not like he is a prodigy. He is roughly the same age as Babar, so th age factor isn’t relevant either.

I have said this before and I will say it again — the success of Pakistan in white ball cricket hinges on the performance of Babar, Rizwan and Shaheen — your three best white ball players.

They have been at the heart of 90% of Pakistan’s major wins in white ball cricket in the last 5 years. When these three play well, Pakistan is a decent team. When they don’t play well or are not part of the team, Pakistan is a poor team.

It is PCB’s and Pakistani fans’ delusion that Pakistan is ready to move on from those two and that their batting is stronger without them.

It is abundantly clear that Farhan and Haris are not good enough to replace Babar and Rizwan and therefore, they do not merit selection over those two.

PCB tried to move on from Shaheen as well but they realized their folly quickly and took a U-turn on that, and they will do the same with Babar and Rizwan too because the Asia Cup was revealed a lot of bitter truths.

PCB will die on this hill very soon, and anyone who is delusional enough to think that Babar and Rizwan’s T20I careers are over will have to wait their hat soon.

You mentioned in the other thread that the team playing today is stronger than the one that played in T20 World Cup last year. While the middle-order (only marginally) and spin attack (significantly) are better, the top-order is significantly weaker because any Pakistan team with Babar and Rizwan is stronger than any Pakistan team without those two.

Babar and Rizwan will be replaced one day and it will happen organically. Eventually they will get old and better players will come along, just like they replaced those before them. However, PCB can’t force inferior players like Farhan and Haris down our throats just because they want to move on from them.

There isn't a single team in the world the would pick Farhan and Haris over Babar and Rizwan. There isn’t a single bowling attack that would rather bowl to Babar and Rizwan over Farhan and Haris.

There is no world where Babar and Rizwan don’t make the best Pakistan XI in every format.

Hard agree. It is incomprehensible to me how some of these fans watch the same and believe Farhan is better than Babar or Harris is better than Rizwan. Mind you Babar and Rizwan are not world beaters, but are very good and have proven themselves at international level. They are also significantly better in every conceivabe way, they have better technique, better record, better averages, better strike rates, etc. Only reason to keep them out is just to push personal agendas

 

[SportsWarrior]

Oh chall oye

I don’t have time for this nonsense

The current team is 1000% better off with those two Laanats returning


Cry all you want!

So you have no arguments

 

[Rana]

So you have no arguments

I will not even bother. There is nothing I can say that will convince you because you are a Babar and Rizwan supporter.

I am a staunch believer they are a curse to the Pakistan T20 team.

I think anyone who rates Babar or Rizwan as relevant T20 players needs to have his head checked.

We have nothing to discuss or debate.

 

[Obaidd]

He’s won 12 of his last 16 games for Pakistan

That sounds great actually.

From an individual performance perspective, he’s not bowling so playing as a pure batsman. His batting last few innings was outrageously poor. His decision to bat first contributed significantly to the loss too. Lately he’s been misfiring on all cylinders.

To his credit he has the highest batting average of the current lot at 24 with a 112 career sr. Is he even cut out for this?

 

[BouncerGuy]

When you ar getting beaten by Shoaib Malik and Hafeez Saab you know you are cooked

LOL... babar and heck, even sarfaraz is buring many under the rubble with these numbers... Shameful stats for the CAP.

 

[SportsWarrior]

I will not even bother. There is nothing I can say that will convince you because you are a Babar and Rizwan supporter.

I am a staunch believer they are a curse to the Pakistan T20 team.

I think anyone who rates Babar or Rizwan as relevant T20 players needs to have his head checked.

We have nothing to discuss or debate.

It's not about rating Rizwan and Babar. It is about optimizing whatever resources you have. RizBar, even if thye are not great t20 players, are objectively better than whoever is playing now. So choose the right team

 

[SportsWarrior]

LOL... babar and heck, even sarfaraz is buring many under the rubble with these numbers... Shameful stats for the CAP.

Yeah, not everyone will succeed in all format. Agha may be a good choice for test or ODIS. By forcing him to this t20 captain role they are just setting him for a failure. These poor performances will trickle down to his test and odi career and Pak will end up losing a decent player

 

[BouncerGuy]

Yeah, not everyone will succeed in all format. Agha may be a good choice for test or ODIS. By forcing him to this t20 captain role they are just setting him for a failure. These poor performances will trickle down to his test and odi career and Pak will end up losing a decent player

When agenda takes over, you will see such stuff getting enough support from people... it is all about keeping babar and riz away.. Even though they were dropped based on their form for the right reason but you gotta see what your replacements are and the whole worlds knows that the replacements are even worse...

 

[Rana]

When agenda takes over, you will see such stuff getting enough support from peopl

What’s agenda? We are not allowed to celebrate 12/16 wins under Hesson+Agha?

 

[BouncerGuy]

What’s agenda? We are not allowed to celebrate 12/16 wins under Hesson+Agha?

I never saw you celebrating when Pakistan reached 2 finals, semi finals.. asia cup final...

 

[Rana]

I never saw you celebrating when Pakistan reached 2 finals, semi finals.. asia cup final...

I did celebrate the semi final

I wasn’t completely against the RizBar thing because it was in its initial stages at the time. And Pakistan still had players who were known T20 specialists.

I didn’t really celebrate the final qualification because I know it was a scam

So should you know. We all know how we ended up in the final even though there were probably 5-6 teams more deserving than us.

 

[Rana]

Is this Pakistani culture?

Always belittling the youngsters/underrated/ week people in society?

What’s this Freshy culture?

 

[Rana]

It's not about rating Rizwan and Babar. It is about optimizing whatever resources you have. RizBar, even if thye are not great t20 players, are objectively better than whoever is playing now. So choose the right team

Yes,

You can optimise it by keeping away people who have no business whatsoever in T20s

Pakistan did exactly that. The good results and above par scores are a result of that.

We function as a team. Not individuals

When you function as a team, someone or more than one person will come through for you on your tough days

Others will come through for you on other days!

That’s how Pakistan is functioning! We are building a team that fights for each other! Not individual players who fight for themselves!

 

[Rana]

You all wanted change!

You all wanted an improved approach!

Naqvi, Aqib, Hesson and Agha have responded to your call!

They have delivered results! They are fighting every day to give you a team that tries to compete!

What’s the issue now????

I’m asking you @BouncerGuy because you seem to have a lot of problems with everyone every other day

 

[shaz619]

Give these blokes 2-3 ICC tournaments & then we can come out with the extreme criticisms, give this crop the same long rope you gave to Babar & Riz regime if you support Pakistan and not the players.

 

[shaz619]

I have never felt more like a Pakistan cricket fan in years, I rather dare to be great taking risks then keep failing through making the same mistakes every year.

 

[shaz619]

@Rana This is the Pak of old, dw, our batting will peak at the right time iA

 

[Rana]

@Rana This is the Pak of old, dw, our batting will peak at the right time iA

I have no doubts bro

But freshies have been making too much noise for no reason.

They act like we lost to Namibia and not India.

When I ask them, “when was the last time India lost a T20”, it’s like I’ve asked them for their visa documents!

 

[Rana]

Pakistan supporters like you should be ashamed to gloat in wins against UAE, Oman, WI and to some extent even AFG and BD

Yes, I should be ashamed

But you shouldn’t be ashamed having lost to USA?

How does that work?

 

[deep82]

What’s agenda? We are not allowed to celebrate 12/16 wins under Hesson+Agha?

Its 12/17 under Agha/Hesson.

Its 13/22 under Agha + Intent - Babar/Rizwan (1-4 vs NZ-D)

13 wins and 9 defeats under this new approach.
(and haven't played top teams/full strength except for one game vs India so far)

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

People are completely missing @Rana point here. It is not about the perceived talent of Rizbar vs current set of guys. They may be better especially Babar. But it is about the toxicity and badneeyati of Rizbar when they were in-charge.

 

[Rana]

Its 12/17 under Agha/Hesson.

Its 13/22 under Agha + Intent - Babar/Rizwan (1-4 vs NZ-D)

13 wins and 9 defeats under this new approach.
(and haven't played top teams/full strength except for one game vs India so far)

So its meant to be an overnight switch of the flick solution for a team languishing at 9th/10th in the ICC rankings and losing its last hundred odd matches with Babar and Rizwan not allowing any growth whatsoever???

 

[Mamoon]

Salman Agha should be sacked for having no talent. Imagine having a SR of 110 after making so much noise about implementing a modern batting style.

The captain is supposed to lead from the front and set the template for his team mates.

What a mediocre clown. It is not surprising that the mediocre clowns on this forum are defending him. Clownery recognizes clownery.

Making Agha captain is one of the most dumbest calls made by any PCB administration in history. It is a complete joke.

 

[Mamoon]

People are completely missing @Rana point here. It is not about the perceived talent of Rizbar vs current set of guys. They may be better especially Babar. But it is about the toxicity and badneeyati of Rizbar when they were in-charge.

What toxicity and what badneeyati? How do you measure it and can you give examples of that?

This isn’t religion where your “niyat” matters. If a mediocre clown like Agha has a SR of 111 in spite of having no toxicity and good niyat, then he should be kicked out for his lack of talent.

Same goes for Farhan, Haris and poultry farm Saim Ayub.

 

[Mamoon]

Mediocre clowns are missing the point maybe because they aren’t intelligent enough to grasp it.

It is not about winning or losing. It is about the approach.

These players and this captain wouldn’t have copped so much criticism if they practiced what they preach and went down.

No one would be criticizing them had they took on India and scored 170+ and lost, or were 127 all out in 15 overs.

They are getting criticized because they have failed to live up to their own mantra and have failed to implement the strategy the they have been talking about for months.

The whole agenda behind axing Babar and Rizwan was to move on from a conservative approach and go all guns blazing and take on the opposition bowlers.

That is clearly not happening because these players don’t have the courage and the skill to put their words into action. It’s easy to make tall claims in pressers but it’s a different ball game when you have to go out there and do it especially against quality opposition.

Babar wasn’t dropped for his replacement to bat at a SR of 87. As simple as that.

This apologist narrative that please give them time means absolutely nothing because showing intent doesn’t take time.

Yes, results can take time, performances can take time, but intent is something that is there from day 1. A team with intent will not put up the run rates that Pakistan have had in this Asia Cup.

When England dropped its outdated ODI players in 2015, they put their new methodology into practice from day 1. They didn’t say that please give us 6 months and then we will practice what we preach.

This Asia Cup has proved that the whole mantra surrounding a new batting approach was nothing but hogwash.

I challenge every Agha/Hesson apologist and critic of Babar/Rizwan to disprove what I said and come up with a convincing counter-argument.

Some mediocre clowns have requested me not to quote them because they are scared of debating me and I respect their fear, but surely there must be a few posters out there who are willing to take up my challenge and counter what I have wrote here.

 

[Ball Blazer]

Mediocre clowns are missing the point maybe because they aren’t intelligent enough to grasp it.

It is not about winning or losing. It is about the approach.

These players and this captain wouldn’t have copped so much criticism if they practiced what they preach and went down.

No one would be criticizing them had they took on India and scored 170+ and lost, or were 127 all out in 15 overs.

They are getting criticized because they have failed to live up to their own mantra and have failed to implement the strategy the they have been talking about for months.

The whole agenda behind axing Babar and Rizwan was to move on from a conservative approach and go all guns blazing and take on the opposition bowlers.

That is clearly not happening because these players don’t have the courage and the skill to put their words into action. It’s easy to make tall claims in pressers but it’s a different ball game when you have to go out there and do it especially against quality opposition.

Babar wasn’t dropped for his replacement to bat at a SR of 87. As simple as that.

This apologist narrative that please give them time means absolutely nothing because showing intent doesn’t take time.

Yes, results can take time, performances can take time, but intent is something that is there from day 1. A team with intent will not put up the run rates that Pakistan have had in this Asia Cup.

When England dropped its outdated ODI players in 2015, they put their new methodology into practice from day 1. They didn’t say that please give us 6 months and then we will practice what we preach.

This Asia Cup has proved that the whole mantra surrounding a new batting approach was nothing but hogwash.

I challenge every Agha/Hesson apologist and critic of Babar/Rizwan to disprove what I said and come up with a convincing counter-argument.

Some mediocre clowns have requested me not to quote them because they are scared of debating me and I respect their fear, but surely there must be a few posters out there who are willing to take up my challenge and counter what I have wrote here.

Agreed. The purpose to drop Riz-bar duo in this format was to get a better and aggressive replacements. And it's been a number of series, we are yet to see it. Even the series against low tier teams were just average. Batting has always been an issue and not seeing it improving anytime soon.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

What toxicity and what badneeyati? How do you measure it and can you give examples of that?

This isn’t religion where your “niyat” matters. If a mediocre clown like Agha has a SR of 111 in spite of having no toxicity and good niyat, then he should be kicked out for his lack of talent.

Same goes for Farhan, Haris and poultry farm Saim Ayub.

The growth of the team. Even when winning against sides like Nepal and Zimbabwe no experimentation in dead rubber games. When did Babar and Rizwan sat out of a dead rubber game or came down the order like Surya did?

See I don't have any agenda against any Pakistan player so I am coming from that perspective. Babar turned out to be very timid. After 2021 victory vs India I thought okay, now we have worthy opponents and games will be more interesting. But really disappointed with Babars mental fortitude.

 

[Rana]

Agreed. The purpose to drop Riz-bar duo in this format was to get a better and aggressive replacements. And it's been a number of series, we are yet to see it. Even the series against low tier teams were just average. Batting has always been an issue and not seeing it improving anytime soon.

This is a disingenuous post

It’s been a number of series and you are yet to see an improvement in Pakistan’s aggressive intent play?

 

[Rana]

RizBar fans be like:

“Pakistan are batting like RizBar would have batted and scoring the same amount of runs….so let’s bring back RizBar so that Pakistan can bat like RizBar again and score the same amount of runs”

 

[SportsWarrior]

RizBar fans be like:

“Pakistan are batting like RizBar would have batted and scoring the same amount of runs….so let’s bring back RizBar so that Pakistan can bat like RizBar again and score the same amount of runs”

Common sense fans, who are not RizBar fans, are like "Pakistan batting is like headless chicken and are scoring less number of runs, less consistently against mediocre teams. So let's bring back RizBar who, even if not world beaters, are objectively better than Farhan, Harris, Agah, Khushdil, etc, so that they can score more consistently at an higher scoring rate.

 

[Rana]

Common sense fans

What? What’s common sense fans? The ones who want a proven failed formula to return to T20?

More like Common fool fans!

 

[SportsWarrior]

What? What’s common sense fans? The ones who want a proven failed formula to return to T20?

More like Common fool fans!

I am sorry, people wirh common sense will understand what's common sense fans. Apologies for expecting you and your ilk to understand it

 

[Rana]

I am sorry, people wirh common sense will understand what's common sense fans. Apologies for expecting you and your ilk to understand it

What’s your ilk? A world in which common sense is to have two batters who strike at 100 and 90 in ICC tournament powerplays? And lose to USA? And then fail to chase 120 off 120 balls having built a team that’s ceiling is to chase 160 on flat decks and post 170 on the same flat decks??

 

[SportsWarrior]

What’s your ilk? A world in which common sense is to have two batters who strike at 100 and 90 in ICC tournament powerplays? And lose to USA? And then fail to chase 120 off 120 balls having built a team that’s ceiling is to chase 160 on flat decks and post 170 on the same flat decks??

Lol they were batting in WC against the best possible squads put up by their respective teams. The current team has members who are averaging worse and stringing at lower rate while literally playing against minnows like UAE, Oman, and lower tier teams like WI, BD and AFG

Moreover that USA match was lost by Amir and not by Rizbar. India match was lost by laughable batting by Imad

 

[Rana]

Lol they were batting in WC against the best possible squads put up by their respective teams

Acha jee?

So this Indian team isn’t stronger than the Indian team Pakistan faced in 2024?

 

[SportsWarrior]

Acha jee?

So this Indian team isn’t stronger than the Indian team Pakistan faced in 2024?

No one expects Pak to win against India with or without Rizbar. 8 out 10 times india will win with current talent pool. But they have looked terrible against others. Just look at their stats and how they look when they bat. None of the top order bars will go into any top team with those stats. Even Saim seems outright mediocre. Agha, Farhan, Khushdil etc won't in any other international team apart from may be BD or similar teams. Pakistan has better legacy, setup, ability and pidegree than these batsman.

 

[Rana]

No one expects Pak to win against India with or without Rizbar. 8 out 10 times india will win with current talent pool. But they have looked terrible against others. Just look at their stats and how they look when they bat. None of the top order bars will go into any top team with those stats. Even Saim seems outright mediocre. Agha, Farhan, Khushdil etc won't in any other international team apart from may be BD or similar teams. Pakistan has better legacy, setup, ability and pidegree than these batsman.

None of this makes any sense when the two you are advocating for are PROVEN FAILURES FOR THE TEAM’S BEST INTEREST

How are two crap players who were removed suddenly the solution having not improved at all from the condition in which they were originally dropped????

Where has Babar shown he is regularly striking the ball like Travis Head??? Where has Rizwan shown he is playing all around the park with a sr of 160+???????

 

[jnaveen1980]

Pakistan has another year to get their unit ready for the next world cup. We will see where they are in an year's time. Matches that happen in between won't tell you much as most teams will be in experimental mode. Asia cup is probably their first test. Not like India has vastly experienced unit. India unit has played only 15 or 16 matches together. Less than what current Pakistan unit has played.

 

[SportsWarrior]

Pakistan has another year to get their unit ready for the next world cup. We will see where they are in an year's time. Matches that happen in between won't tell you much as most teams will be in experimental mode. Asia cup is probably their first test. Not like India has vastly experienced unit. India unit has played only 15 or 16 matches together. Less than what current Pakistan unit has played.

Year? Isn't world cup in less than six months? I thought it was jn feb/Mar 2026