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Is Adil Rashid currently the best when it comes to extracting turn out of a pitch?

sensible-indian-fan

sensible-indian-fan

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I watched him bowl today and I must say he bowled really well today.

Got some to really turn.

I know he is a poor test bowler in general with horrible line and lengths but boy can he get some good turn. Dunno if there is any current spinner who can extract more turn out of a pitch than him.

Do you think he can improve his accuracy and become a good test bowler?

Yes, its a BIG BIG IF to ask a leggie to become accurate but if he does, he will probably be the most exciting spinner to watch (even if he is not the best spinner).

What do you think?

And yes, this is a genuine thread.
 
He gets good turn out of poor pitches for spin, but no I don't think he's the Worlds best spinner in that regard. In Tests he's still struggling to adapt to the basics to back up his conventional spin and turn.
 
In all fairness to him I think he bowled pretty well today personally. He does seem to have a tendency to get a lot of turn and mix that with the ability to turn the ball both ways and add a bit ot consistency and he could be a good test bowler.
 
Sherlock said:
He gets good turn out of poor pitches for spin, but no I don't think he's the Worlds best spinner in that regard. In Tests he's still struggling to adapt to the basics to back up his conventional spin and turn.
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Name one spinner who can turn it better than him.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Name one spinner who can turn it better than him.
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Come on s-i-f. Even you can't be that stupid to ask this question...:))

A spinner's job is to turn a ball, but most of all to take wickets. If he can't do that then he can have the best spinning delivery in the World, it doesn't mean he's the best.

It's almost as if this is the first time you're witnessing him bowl for goodness sake :facepalm:
 
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Sherlock said:
Come on s-i-f. Even you can't be that stupid to ask this question...:))

A spinner's job is to turn a ball, but most of all to take wickets. If he can't do that then he can have the best spinning delivery in the World, it doesn't mean he's the best.

It's almost as if this is the first time you're witnessing him bowl for goodness sake :facepalm:
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Thread clearly specifies reg spin and asks a question whether he can improve.

You say he is not the best in that reg (as in extracting spin).

I ask you name one bowler who is better at doing so.

It doesn't matter if Rashid is rubbish. No one said Rashid is a supreme wicket taker.

He does have a core skill that spinners all over the world aspire to have and this thread is about whether he can use his core skill to create a good test career down the road.

Pray tell me what is so stupid here?
 
Ok...mods can change the title to "Is Adil Rashid Currently The Best When It Comes To Extracting Turn Out Of A Pitch?"

Seems like "world's best spinner" in title is confusing people.
 
Not sure if he's the best but it remains a great skill, he puts a great deal of revs on the bowl and has a diverse set of weapons; the key for him is control and consistency. Have followed him throughout the Yorkshire years and he has been fundamental in their FC success, he has grown and become better with more experience. At the Test level I can see the same happening, just needs some experience to develop at the highest level; key words are patience and investment, that's all that matters from an England point of view because they know of his quality and understand that results will come and he'll become more consistent.
 
Oh please he's the most overrated spinner, so many years of county and international exposure and yet he has no control, he's rubbish. Yasir is the best followed by Jubair.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Thread clearly specifies reg spin and asks a question whether he can improve.

You say he is not the best in that reg (as in extracting spin).

I ask you name one bowler who is better at doing so.

It doesn't matter if Rashid is rubbish. No one said Rashid is a supreme wicket taker.

He does have a core skill that spinners all over the world aspire to have and this thread is about whether he can use his core skill to create a good test career down the road.

Pray tell me what is so stupid here?
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As I pointed out above of course he can improve, and he needs to do so too. But a spinner that spins a ball should be a basic asset, but it shouldn't mean much if you can't match it with wickets. The best turner of the ball is Tahir [IMO] but he's more of a limited over bowler than he is a Test bowler.

Once again I'd say spinning the ball doesn't mean much if you can't back it up with wickets. It's like saying if a fast bowler can ball quick on any surface, but it doesn't mean much if he can't pick up wickets for that pace.
 
Sherlock said:
As I pointed out above of course he can improve, and he needs to do so too. But a spinner that spins a ball should be a basic asset, but it shouldn't mean much if you can't match it with wickets. The best turner of the ball is Tahir [IMO] but he's more of a limited over bowler than he is a Test bowler.

Once again I'd say spinning the ball doesn't mean much if you can't back it up with wickets. It's like saying if a fast bowler can ball quick on any surface, but it doesn't mean much if he can't pick up wickets for that pace.
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1. Everyone can see that he hasn't performed and can't be called a good spinner based on his actual output. There is no point repeating it every time he is discussed. Its well accepted.

2. The whole point of this discussion is to see if he can make it or not. That's what makes it fun to analyze.

3. You say Tahir. Fair enough. That was what I was asking about. Personally I think Tahir's leggie doesn't spin as much. Maybe on rank turners but its his googly that is deadly. Rashid's leggie and googly are both deadly (spin wise).

4. Just read in cricinfo that Saqlain worked on his trajectory. He bowled well today. Its very much possible he may be ruthlessly carted around tomorrow but again...this thread is just about discussion whether he can make it or not and if so....how.
 
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sensible-indian-fan said:
1. Everyone can see that he hasn't performed and can't be called a good spinner based on his actual output. There is no point repeating it every time he is discussed. Its well accepted.

2. The whole point of this discussion is to see if he can make it or not. That's what makes it fun to analyze.

3. You say Tahir. Fair enough. That was what I was asking about. Personally I think Tahir's leggie doesn't spin as much. Maybe on rank turners but its his googly that is deadly. Rashid's leggie and googly are both deadly (spin wise).

4. Just read in cricinfo that Saqlain worked on his trajectory. He bowled well today. Its very much possible he may be ruthlessly carted around tomorrow but again...this thread is just about discussion whether he can make it or not and if so....how.
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Your whole point wasn't about if he can improve or not, it was about the amount of spin he generates, the improvement part comes in later.

Tahir gets more spin.

Rashid, if he hasn't improved by now who knows if he'll ever do so. He's been bowling in domestic cricket for a decade, and he should know what to bowl and what not to. You can get away with it in ODI etc but Test Cricket is superior in every sense...
 
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sensible-indian-fan said:
My God...what has happened to you...

A thread discussion is based on title PLUS main post.

In title, you ask a question or make a statement....and in OP, you EXPAND on it....
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And as I explained the part about improving comes in after your initial subject, which is about the issue of spin.

Come on man, surely even you can see that?!

Users seeing this will read the title and answer the question. They'll then read further down and see everything else.

That's how it works.
 
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Definitely. The likes of Yasir and Tahir don't really have big turning leg breaks because they tend to bowl a fraction quicker than Rashid. If Adil can improve his accuracy and consistency he can become a good Test bowler. Already doing a great job for England in LOIs because he spins it a lot along with good variations.
 
By the way, thread ain't pertaining to just leggies.

Swann is the model bowler for offies to extract spin. Murali was a freak.

Probably Bedi is the model bowler for left armers to extract spin.

Warne for leggies.
 
Bishoo?Turned it big even in UAE

Overall Ashwin is still the best in turn aspect

What Rashid gets is dangerous bounce,speciallly of googly
 
Saurav said:
Bishoo?Turned it big even in UAE

Overall Ashwin is still the best in turn aspect

What Rashid gets is dangerous bounce,speciallly of googly
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1. Extracting turn means getting it from tracks where its hard to get. Not spinning it a mile on responsive tracks. Only those who put in great effort with their body can get turn.

2. Bishoo is ok when it comes to getting turn. Hardly anything to rave about. He did excellent in UAE but that's a different thing from getting big turn.

3. Ashwin's weakness is his inability to extract much turn from tougher pitches (needs to put in more effort which he is working on but needs to do more). Even Kumble and Bhajji had this issue. Yasir has it too (but his strengths are diff so it doesn't affect him that much).
 
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Stuart MacGill used to get some beastly turn. Never seen any leggie turn it as big as him.
 
Get wickets, lots of them, and then we can talk. Until then its all time pass.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
So what? :))

This exchange is seriously funny.

When I say the whole point of the thread is to see whether Rashid can improve, OBVIOUSLY anyone could see what I mean.

What you are basically doing is "no TECHNICALLY you didn't state that in your headline so that comes afterwards so that can't be the main point of this thread".

Let's just move on dude. I think you can see what's going on. Happens man.
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Yet you still don't get it... I already said he isn't the best [amount of spin conjured], and I also answered the improving part, and yet...:))

I'm not arguing about the thread, I'm just baffled at the notion of his spin bowling being the best around. I don't think it is!
 
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He does turn the ball, but that's not new in cricket. Leggis normally get the highest amount of turn - I have seen MacGill turning big on Day 1 wicket.

It's about the control for a wrist spinner. Finger spinners are much more accurate as they can bring elbow & fingers in to their act; for leggis, it's all about shoulders & wrist. Long back, there was a leggi in India - Laxman Shivaramakrishnan; now days spouts rubbish in commentary box, but that guy was a freak with his turn. He took 12 wickets against Poms at Bombay, when, as I read, some time he had to pitch it an yard out-side leg to keep it within reach of the right handers. May be a bit over statement, but that guy could turn it big.

What he lacked is exactly what Rashid is lacking - putting, no not 6, putting 66 balls in tandem on spot. One major drawback for leggi is, he won't get LBW with big turn - so 90% of his efforts are wasted, if he misses the radar & concedes easy runs. For Adil, I think his biggest problem is, in County he hardly gets the chance to bowl 15-20 overs at stress & 35-38 overs in an innings; hence, he tries too many things in short time. Also, I think, in County, it's a bit easier for him to get lots of wickets for the quality of leg-spin play, hence he hasn't developed the bowler's psyche yet - waiting game is the key for spinners; for leggi, even more as Leggis are less economical than finger spinners.

I think, this Asian tour will be a catalyst for Adil's career. He is entering in to the age where leg-spinners start to mature & 7 Tests on turners against far superior batsmen against spin will make or break the man. He is bowling with better control than previous by every day than what I saw in the ODIs, which is great signs. By the time Poms reach for the Ashes down under, I think in 120 years, for the first time ENG will take a leggi who can hurt the Aussies (last one was BJ Bosanquet, played in 1903-04) - rest were Salisbury class.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
By the way, thread ain't pertaining to just leggies.

Swann is the model bowler for offies to extract spin. Murali was a freak.

Probably Bedi is the model bowler for left armers to extract spin.

Warne for leggies.
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Leggies and offies use different mechanics for generating turn. For a leggie, it's better to be round arm whereas offies are better off staying high arm(between 10-12). Offies rely mainly on their fingers and wrist to extract turn, but for leggies arm angle is crucial to get behind the ball, specifically the seam.

Extracting turn means getting it from tracks where its hard to get. Not spinning it a mile on responsive tracks. Only those who put in great effort with their body can get turn.
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Simply putting your body into isn't enough, otherwise Yasir would turn it a mile. He's too high arm and does not flight the ball enough to grip so the ball just skids on. That's what Rashid does well, on top of having a round arm action, like Warne and McGill did. A round arm action allows a spinner to angle the seam as much as possible which is what extracts turn, along with revolutions, when the pitch isn't gripping. As you would've figured, it's very difficult to angle the seam with a high arm action. Most importantly, for the ball to turn, no matter how hard the surface, it has to grip. Therefore, pace is very important. If you bowl too fast on hard pitches, the ball will just skid on. This is what Warne did better than anybody. On hard pitches, he used to slow his pace down to 65-75 kph and maximize flight/revolutions to extract turn.
 
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Yasir Shah gets just as much turn but yes, Adil and Moeen are both big turners of the ball. If they get their radars right, England might not miss Swann anymore.
 
Chief Destroyer said:
Leggies and offies use different mechanics for generating turn. For a leggie, it's better to be round arm whereas offies are better off staying high arm(between 10-12). Offies rely mainly on their fingers and wrist to extract turn, but for leggies arm angle is crucial to get behind the ball, specifically the seam.



Simply putting your body into isn't enough, otherwise Yasir would turn it a mile. He's too high arm and does not flight the ball enough to grip so the ball just skids on. That's what Rashid does well, on top of having a round arm action, like Warne and McGill did. A round arm action allows a spinner to angle the seam as much as possible which is what extracts turn, along with revolutions, when the pitch isn't gripping. As you would've figured, it's very difficult to angle the seam with a high arm action. Most importantly, for the ball to turn, no matter how hard the surface, it has to grip. Therefore, pace is very important. If you bowl too fast on hard pitches, the ball will just skid on. This is what Warne did better than anybody. On hard pitches, he used to slow his pace down to 65-75 kph and maximize flight/revolutions to extract turn.
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Thanks man. Was very informative.
 
MMHS said:
He does turn the ball, but that's not new in cricket. Leggis normally get the highest amount of turn - I have seen MacGill turning big on Day 1 wicket.

It's about the control for a wrist spinner. Finger spinners are much more accurate as they can bring elbow & fingers in to their act; for leggis, it's all about shoulders & wrist. Long back, there was a leggi in India - Laxman Shivaramakrishnan; now days spouts rubbish in commentary box, but that guy was a freak with his turn. He took 12 wickets against Poms at Bombay, when, as I read, some time he had to pitch it an yard out-side leg to keep it within reach of the right handers. May be a bit over statement, but that guy could turn it big.

What he lacked is exactly what Rashid is lacking - putting, no not 6, putting 66 balls in tandem on spot. One major drawback for leggi is, he won't get LBW with big turn - so 90% of his efforts are wasted, if he misses the radar & concedes easy runs. For Adil, I think his biggest problem is, in County he hardly gets the chance to bowl 15-20 overs at stress & 35-38 overs in an innings; hence, he tries too many things in short time. Also, I think, in County, it's a bit easier for him to get lots of wickets for the quality of leg-spin play, hence he hasn't developed the bowler's psyche yet - waiting game is the key for spinners; for leggi, even more as Leggis are less economical than finger spinners.

I think, this Asian tour will be a catalyst for Adil's career. He is entering in to the age where leg-spinners start to mature & 7 Tests on turners against far superior batsmen against spin will make or break the man. He is bowling with better control than previous by every day than what I saw in the ODIs, which is great signs. By the time Poms reach for the Ashes down under, I think in 120 years, for the first time ENG will take a leggi who can hurt the Aussies (last one was BJ Bosanquet, played in 1903-04) - rest were Salisbury class.
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Why did siva not become a legend.. He said he lost his zip because of some poor faulty the techniques he picked up when playing domestic matches.. What do you think
 
karthikc said:
Why did siva not become a legend.. He said he lost his zip because of some poor faulty the techniques he picked up when playing domestic matches.. What do you think
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I am too young to track back history from 30 years back, but I think, competition of a spinner's spot in IND is intense always - that time Kapil & Shastri made the team as all-rounder, hence there was only 1 or at most 2 spinners spot was available - other spinner was Maninder, who was really top class for few years. For away series, hardly any opening left for a 3rd spinner as IND played 3 seemer (& Shivlal Yadav was the back-up spinner), while at home, one can't pick 3 spinner all of whom takes the ball away - hence Shivlal Yadav & Arshad Ayub by passed Shiva.

Apart from that, I think, his problem was like Adil - big turn but less control. Adil is lucky that he is playing during the amateurish era of spin play - most batsmen are absolute novice when it comes to mastering spin, hence he gets lots of wickets with poor balls (imagine Virat's dismissal yesterday). Lax played in an era when 2.75 was standard RR (for spinners <2.5) & any spinner going around 3/over won't have created much pressure to force an error - batsmen were too tempered to play-out big turners & get out of full-toss, long hops. His Test economy is around 3 while FC economy is 3.5; which indicates that he was actually as lose as Adil those days. IND's team composition was such that, if their premier spinner goes for runs, it's big trouble, hence I think selectors went for Hirwani in 1988.

Another issue might be his fitness - handful of domestic matches in 2 decades career suggests that he hardly had a good run of domestic season. Also, the guy comes from South (more importantly not from Bombay-Delhi block), which didn't help his cause - dropped at the first hurdle (something went against for Hirwani as well).
 
MMHS said:
He does turn the ball, but that's not new in cricket. Leggis normally get the highest amount of turn - I have seen MacGill turning big on Day 1 wicket.

It's about the control for a wrist spinner. Finger spinners are much more accurate as they can bring elbow & fingers in to their act; for leggis, it's all about shoulders & wrist. Long back, there was a leggi in India - Laxman Shivaramakrishnan; now days spouts rubbish in commentary box, but that guy was a freak with his turn. He took 12 wickets against Poms at Bombay, when, as I read, some time he had to pitch it an yard out-side leg to keep it within reach of the right handers. May be a bit over statement, but that guy could turn it big.

What he lacked is exactly what Rashid is lacking - putting, no not 6, putting 66 balls in tandem on spot. One major drawback for leggi is, he won't get LBW with big turn - so 90% of his efforts are wasted, if he misses the radar & concedes easy runs. For Adil, I think his biggest problem is, in County he hardly gets the chance to bowl 15-20 overs at stress & 35-38 overs in an innings; hence, he tries too many things in short time. Also, I think, in County, it's a bit easier for him to get lots of wickets for the quality of leg-spin play, hence he hasn't developed the bowler's psyche yet - waiting game is the key for spinners; for leggi, even more as Leggis are less economical than finger spinners.

I think, this Asian tour will be a catalyst for Adil's career. He is entering in to the age where leg-spinners start to mature & 7 Tests on turners against far superior batsmen against spin will make or break the man. He is bowling with better control than previous by every day than what I saw in the ODIs, which is great signs. By the time Poms reach for the Ashes down under, I think in 120 years, for the first time ENG will take a leggi who can hurt the Aussies (last one was BJ Bosanquet, played in 1903-04) - rest were Salisbury class.
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The inventor of the googly, or as Richie used to call it, the 'Bosie'.
 
Yasir doesnt turn it much, nor does Tahir. They are not conventional leggies, more of hustle-bustle type bowlers

Rashid tough does turn a mile, but he is too slow normally and on slower tracks can be managed with much ease. His control is ok imo, does not bowl too many full tosses or long hops, just that he lacks a few miles in pace
 
I believe his greatest strength is the drift he gets.

If he could get the drift going more regularly, then he would be an excellent bowler.

Saw him get some in the UAE and those balls looked very dangerous.
 
Nil Dhumrojal said:
He is a great turner of his era but lacs control. He should work on that.
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Turn will compensate for your inaccuracy to a certain level. Even Warne admitted that he was never accurate as everyone that he was. When you are a wrist spinner who imparts a lot of revs, you have to sacrifice a little bit of your accuracy. The ball will have varying combinations of drifts and dips that will inadvertently cause a dent in your accuracy. Wrist spinners must influence batsmen into playing shots that they(bowler) want them to play and preferably play shots towards a certain area.
 
I don't really rate him to be honest. At this stage in his career he should have better control and more consistency.

However he has bowled extremely well in this particular Test, and nobody can take that away from him. He may even go on to have a late bloom.
 
Thivagar said:
Turn will compensate for your inaccuracy to a certain level. Even Warne admitted that he was never accurate as everyone that he was. When you are a wrist spinner who imparts a lot of revs, you have to sacrifice a little bit of your accuracy. The ball will have varying combinations of drifts and dips that will inadvertently cause a dent in your accuracy. Wrist spinners must influence batsmen into playing shots that they(bowler) want them to play and preferably play shots towards a certain area.
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Agree with your words but to be successful you need a certain level of accuracy at least and his accuracy level is much lower than warney that why warne is so successful and adil still couldn't be a big threat.
 
Rashid is a very lucky bowler.He gets wickets of rubbish deliveries which were evident in ODI series against Bangladesh.

He can turn the ball, so could Ian Salisbury.But everyone knows where Salisbury ended as a leg spinner in English color. Adil is an ordinary leggy in my eyes who gives at least 2 long hopps in one over.I will be surprised if he gets a few wickets against India.
 
Mainul said:
Rashid is a very lucky bowler.He gets wickets of rubbish deliveries which were evident in ODI series against Bangladesh.

He can turn the ball, so could Ian Salisbury.But everyone knows where Salisbury ended as a leg spinner in English color. Adil is an ordinary leggy in my eyes who gives at least 2 long hopps in one over.I will be surprised if he gets a few wickets against India.
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He has seven against India already and totally outbowled the opposition's leggie. All the English spinners outbowled their counterparts.
 
Nil Dhumrojal said:
Agree with your words but to be successful you need a certain level of accuracy at least and his accuracy level is much lower than warney that why warne is so successful and adil still couldn't be a big threat.
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Yup he is not accurate as Warne. It may have to do with his action but it is hard to judge.
 
Bilal7 said:
He has seven against India already and totally outbowled the opposition's leggie. All the English spinners outbowled their counterparts.
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That will change in Vishakha, the 2nd test venue.It will be a rank turner and Aswin and co will have a carnage.
 
karthikc said:
Why did siva not become a legend.. He said he lost his zip because of some poor faulty the techniques he picked up when playing domestic matches.. What do you think
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Few things to consider.

1. India produced Spinners in boatloads. If you mess up in a series you would be replaced. Example: N Hirwani (sp). I don't think India had anyone debut like him before or after. Faded and discarded in just 3/4 series.
2. Cricket didn't have video tech like nowadays. Opponents had no clue on the new faces they would bring in every now and then at home.
3. Away overseas tours were murderous for the spinners. Career breakers.
 
4 wickets today.

Has been bowling well all series.

Not yet ready to shoulder England's burden on his own (cos he can be expensive when bats start batting aggressively) but he is improving by leaps and bounds and most importantly, takes important wickets.
 
I hope [MENTION=865]Big Mac[/MENTION] finally accepts that he was completely wrong with his assessment that he's an inferior bowler to Moeen.

A much bigger threat and has a greater ability of running through teams. Nearly won England the Abu Dhabi Test as well last year.

Moeen of course is a much superior all-rounder.
 
Mamoon said:
I hope [MENTION=865]Big Mac[/MENTION] finally accepts that he was completely wrong with his assessment that he's an inferior bowler to Moeen.

A much bigger threat and has a greater ability of running through teams. Nearly won England the Abu Dhabi Test as well last year.

Moeen of course is a much superior all-rounder.
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To be fair to Big Mac, he was right for that period of time.

Apart from that one spell, Rashid was just too wayward.

Now he is bowling well and is doing great. Saqi effect?

Always had more potential than Moeen who just bowls flat with some drift.
 
India played him and Moeen very well in this test. Rashid was very lucky, got some cheap wickets at the end of both 1st and 2nd innings. Could have been wicketless.
 
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Mamoon said:
I hope [MENTION=865]Big Mac[/MENTION] finally accepts that he was completely wrong with his assessment that he's an inferior bowler to Moeen.

A much bigger threat and has a greater ability of running through teams. Nearly won England the Abu Dhabi Test as well last year.

Moeen of course is a much superior all-rounder.
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HQmhtF4.gif
 
Happy to see him doing well. Making haters like Bob Willis eat their own words. Hope he continues to improve.
 
He bowled well in this series but lost it completely in Mumbai.

If there was one pitch where English spinners DESPERATELY needed a coach, it was this pitch but Saqlain's contract ended with the last test.

Why would ECB not retain him for all 5 tests?
 
Saqlain, or any other bowling coach, can only do so much.

At the end of the day if bowlers like Rashid/Moeen don't take on the information given there's nothing one can do.
 
Sherlock said:
Saqlain, or any other bowling coach, can only do so much.

At the end of the day if bowlers like Rashid/Moeen don't take on the information given there's nothing one can do.
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In general its true.

But in this pitch, its very very hard to figure out exactly what lengths, speeds to bowl. You really need an experienced hand to guide you.

Its not a coincidence that Jayant, Ali and Rashid have had their worst performance in the most spin friendly track they got in this series. Even the main Indian spinners had to toil very hard (& long) to get wickets here.
 
Ripper of a delivery this from Adil Rashid:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Pitch outside leg, hit top of off stump &#55357;&#56881;<br><br>Is this the PERFECT leg-spinner? <a href="https://t.co/TrdK55sJOc">pic.twitter.com/TrdK55sJOc</a></p>— NatWest T20 Blast (@NatWestT20Blast) <a href="https://twitter.com/NatWestT20Blast/status/890297060917772288">July 26, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Mamoon said:
I hope [MENTION=865]Big Mac[/MENTION] finally accepts that he was completely wrong with his assessment that he's an inferior bowler to Moeen.

A much bigger threat and has a greater ability of running through teams. Nearly won England the Abu Dhabi Test as well last year.

Moeen of course is a much superior all-rounder.
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They are both rubbish.

They only good spinners right now are Tahir in ODI's and Yasir in Tests (who is beginning to decline now).

Herath is great too but is declining as well.
 
Beyond me how Dawson gets in ahead of him in the Test side. He's been handled poorly by England. Yet to play a home test, only given chances on tough tours of the UAE, India and totally ignoring him when they were out in the Windies - which would have been an ideal series for him to make his Test debut and make the transition in to the side a smoother one. Wouldn't surprise me one bit if he's next thrown in to the side out in Australia during the Ashes which will be a massive challenge for even the best of spinners.
 
He gets impressive turn but lacks the control to be a consistent threat, particularly in Test cricket.
 
Adil Rashid is currently the best when it comes to making chai and pie no doubt.

[MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION] [MENTION=865]Big Mac[/MENTION]
 
England want to make Moeen the second spinner but they call up and drop Dawson whilst the best performing spinner on India tour is not even in the squad #BaylissLogic
 
Markhor said:
England want to make Moeen the second spinner but they call up and drop Dawson whilst the best performing spinner on India tour is not even in the squad #BaylissLogic
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They only call Mo a part-timer to take pressure of him, he is their no.1 spinner without a shadow of a doubt and has been just that since the retirement of Swann.

Best performing pie maker deserves to be back in the Yorkshire bakery where he truly belongs [MENTION=865]Big Mac[/MENTION], even on helpful wickets the "specialist" and "veteran" ended with these stats: 23 wickets @ 37 , he also won ZERO Test matches for England and lacks any sort of impact on a Test Match result; I commend the ECB for putting him in the dust bin, when they need a chai / pie maker or drinks boy we will give him a call Markhor don't you worry.
 
We got fools in here pretending that Rashid is a test-class spinner?

etimRF0.gif
 
Rashid is turning out to be a pretty decent LOI spinner.

But I think Kuldeep is currently the world's best in terms of extracting turn out of a pitch.

1st ODI, he spun it quite big while even Rashid couldn't turn it much.

2nd ODI, pitch slowed down and became more conducive for spin in 2nd innings.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Rashid is turning out to be a pretty decent LOI spinner.

But I think Kuldeep is currently the world's best in terms of extracting turn out of a pitch.

1st ODI, he spun it quite big while even Rashid couldn't turn it much.

2nd ODI, pitch slowed down and became more conducive for spin in 2nd innings.
Click to expand...

Rashid has comfortably out-bowled him so far this match.
 
Mamoon said:
I hope [MENTION=865]Big Mac[/MENTION] finally accepts that he was completely wrong with his assessment that he's an inferior bowler to Moeen.

A much bigger threat and has a greater ability of running through teams. Nearly won England the Abu Dhabi Test as well last year.

Moeen of course is a much superior all-rounder.
Click to expand...

sensible-indian-fan said:
To be fair to Big Mac, he was right for that period of time.

Apart from that one spell, Rashid was just too wayward.

Now he is bowling well and is doing great. Saqi effect?

Always had more potential than Moeen who just bowls flat with some drift.
Click to expand...

giphy.gif
 
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