The Jasprit Bumrah workload myth: Is opting out of the 2nd Test against England justified?

[RizwanT20Champ]

Odi wc > Test wins > Any other mickey mouse tournament.

If this wasnt the case, then a country wouldnt spend millions of dollars creating a Hollywood movie to glorify the 2011 win.

It is a fact that throughout Indian cricket history, 2011 world cup win is considered their greatest moment.

Or are you going to brush that under the rug and claim it's creative Liberties?

This is only for subcontinent fans. A proud Australian through and through like you should know that Ashes > ODI WC and everything else and Aussies have not won an away Ashes in ages and Head being terrible outside of Aus does not help.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Yeah intelligent stuff like Marshall has a Worldcup win and 217 Test wkts in 47 Tests is Nothing and Brian Lara played with a weak team, Winning a Test Series in Aus is not a big deal etc etc ?

Try again or go play with your minions who will shake their heads and dance to your tune :


View attachment 156108

 

[mominsaigol]

This is only for subcontinent fans. A proud Australian through and through like you should know that Ashes > ODI WC and everything else and Aussies have not won an away Ashes in ages and Head being terrible outside of Aus does not help.

Odi wc > Ashes.

England and Australia do not have that hostile rivalry anymore, now ashes is just tradition.

Pakistan and India are obviously more hostile

 

[uppercut]

Odi wc > Test wins > Any other mickey mouse tournament.

If this wasnt the case, then a country wouldnt spend millions of dollars creating a Hollywood movie to glorify the 2011 win.

It is a fact that throughout Indian cricket history, 2011 world cup win is considered their greatest moment.

Or are you going to brush that under the rug and claim it's creative Liberties?

If you want to go by popular opinion then yes .... but purely based on cricketing skills and difficulty levels .... winning a Test series against Aus in their backyard is hideously difficult. Especially if its a 4 or 5 test series. There is a reason why Pak has not even drawn a single test match in Australia for decades and ofcourse never won a series there even when they had strong teams .... whereas in that same time span they have won all major white ball trophies.

I Have no problem accepting popular opinion but then that would mean you and @Mamoon would have to accept that the T20WC is also equally popular now.

 

[mominsaigol]

If you want to go by popular opinion then yes .... but purely based on cricketing skills and difficulty levels .... winning a Test series against Aus in their backyard is hideously difficult. Especially if its a 4 or 5 test series. There is a reason why Pak has not even drawn a single test match in Australia for decades and ofcourse never won a series there even when they had strong teams .... whereas in that same time span they have won all major white ball trophies.

I Have no problem accepting popular opinion but then that would mean you and @Mamoon would have to accept that the T20WC is also equally popular now.

Spending millions of dollars on a Hollywood movie that portrays 2011 wc win as India's greatest moment of all time was based of just an opinion?

Wow must be an expensive opinion.

 

[uppercut]

Spending millions of dollars on a Hollywood movie that portrays 2011 wc win as India's greatest moment of all time was based of just an opinion?

Wow must be an expensive opinion.

I said popular opinion meaning what the avg cricket fan in India considers as important. Doesn't necessarily mean that it makes cricketing sense.

Infact I would even say IPL if you are talking about expensive stuff .... just look at the unreal valuations ... you think businesses risk soo much money if the fans didn't think it was important ? Did you follow the news on what happened after RCB won ? Thats faar bigger than any sports movie if you want to measure importance of various cricket trophies based on popularity.

 

[mominsaigol]

I said popular opinion meaning what the avg cricket fan in India considers as important. Doesn't necessarily mean that it makes cricketing sense.

Infact I would even say IPL if you are talking about expensive stuff .... just look at the unreal valuations ... you think businesses risk soo much money if the fans didn't think it was important ? Did you follow the news on what happened after RCB won ? Thats faar bigger than any sports movie if you want to measure importance of various cricket trophies based on popularity.

Expensive Opinions .

What's ironic is that you are presenting your opinion and claiming it is a fact

 

[RidiculousMan]

"But but he's the Greatest phast bowler ever to touch the ground!!!"

 

[mominsaigol]

"But but he's the Greatest phast bowler ever to touch the ground!!!"

Tbf, I think the next game will be one sided.

These pitches suit england. Their batting is still better then India and without Bumrah their bowling is more or less =.

The 2nd game was due to Stokes Ego. They prepared an uber pancake pitch and unlike the first test, India chose a stronger tail that could bat them through.

It didnt help that England bazzball approach meant that they were put on the field and only batted 80 overs total in the 2nd innings.

Dont think it'll happen this time around.

 

[Mamoon]

So let me get this straight - Archer plays his first Test in 4 years and produced a more impactful performance than “GOAT” Bumrah.

 

[Mamoon]

So will Bumrah need to rest in Manchester or will he play?

More importantly, will Gambhir and Gill have the courage to drop Bumrah considering his stat padding has no impact on the results?

Played two, lost two.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

So let me get this straight - Archer plays his first Test in 4 years and produced a more impactful performance than “GOAT” Bumrah.

'Better than Wasim', according to some

 

[Mamoon]

'Better than Wasim', according to some

GOAT stat-padder for sure. He has taken nothing but useless wickets after the first Test in Australia. He is on a hot losing streak.

That is 5 defeats in 6 Tests for him, and that one draw was because of rain. India were buried in that Test too.

“Match winner” and “high impact” bowler my backside

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

GOAT stat-padder for sure. He has taken nothing but useless wickets after the first Test in Australia. He is on a hot losing streak.

That is 5 defeats in 6 Tests for him, and that one draw was because of rain. India were buried in that Test too.

“Match winner” and “high impact” bowler my backside

The most egregious thing he did in this match wasn't even his bowling. It was the shot he played that led to his dismissal. When you have two wickets in hand, a set batsman at the other end and have been explicitly told to go out there and block, you need to show more responsibility. Brainless bit of cricket by Bumrah after Jadeja had worked so hard to get them within touching distance, and it cost them the match

 

[gazza619]

I find it laughable that this chucker is seen as better than Wasim & Waqar by Indian fans. Wasim & Waqar have won Pakistan games based on their tail end batting alone, never-mind bowling.

 

[Rafale Nidhal]

Bumrah workload is basically to play games where india lose

 

[TheSultan]

GOAT stat-padder for sure. He has taken nothing but useless wickets after the first Test in Australia. He is on a hot losing streak.

That is 5 defeats in 6 Tests for him, and that one draw was because of rain. India were buried in that Test too.

“Match winner” and “high impact” bowler my backside

Exactly - no better than perennial loser Srinath. At least Srinath was quicker

 

[Rafale Nidhal]

so in 4 innings, Bumrah only took 6 top order wickets....while Archer took 5 top order wickets in 2 innings

 

[Mamoon]

At least he has a T20 WC which is now the premier Flagship Cricketing trophy whether you like it or not

You and @Mamoon would have to accept that the T20WC is also equally popular now.

Your brain seems confused. Perhaps you should argue with yourself first and decide if the T20 WC is the premier flagship trophy or equally popular as the ODI WC before talking to other people.

 

[RamLakhan]

Actually he led from the front and bowled very well in the first test against Australia. India won comprehensively in that match. He rotated 3 main seamers (including himself) beautifully. Lots of short spells. I think others (mainly Rohit and Gill so far) don't know how to utilise him. They tend to get over excited about him and over use. Kohli was better.

 

[Mamoon]

Opposition captains watching India rest Bumrah so that he can stay fresh and win India Test matches.

 

[Savak]

Cant blame Bhumrah if his batsmen are not backing him up.

 

[TheSultan]

Cant blame Bhumrah if his batsmen are not backing him up.

His batsmen made over 800 runs in the first match and they still lost.

Ultimately if he is this GOAT that everyone says. To have paltry returns in the second innings does not say much about his GOATedness

 

[mominsaigol]

Cant blame Bhumrah if his batsmen are not backing him up.

That is completly untrue. Its time to actually give credit to England for once and analyse the entire game.

England played beautifully with root scoring an ATG knock and giving england a good total.

Most of Bumrah's wickets came after root had already scored a century and ensured a winning total.

In the 2nd innings it was similar.

Archer on the other hand took very crucial wickets. His 3 wickets ended up india and were far more impactful then anything Bumrah has done in the series.

Mcgrath wasnt known for mopping up tailenders and dismissing people like Steve smith and root after they already got their cemturies.

He was known for making players like Sachin his bunny. He picked up 5 fers or 10 fers but all his wickets were crucial.

Infact Australia didnt even bring Mcgrath on for tailenders, As Gillispie, Lee etc etc had that covered.

He was always called on for turning the likes of lara, Kallis, Dravid, Sachin etc etc into a joke.

This is 5x now that a batter has played a huge knock under bumrah since BGT.

Travis head, Steve Smith, Ben duckett, Harry Brooks and Joe Root.

 

[Savak]

His batsmen made over 800 runs in the first match and they still lost.

Ultimately if he is this GOAT that everyone says. To have paltry returns in the second innings does not say much about his GOATedness

First match was lost because Siraj went missing and Krishna was being Krishna useless.

 

[Mamoon]

Pant was about to launch a counter-attack and had he stayed on the crease for another few overs, India would have been firmly in the driving seat.

That was an absolutely pearler by Archer and it came at the perfect time. That was the moment where England basically took control of the Test.

Bumrah lacks such clutch moments

 

[TheSultan]

That is completly untrue. Its time to actually give credit to England for once and analyse the entire game.

England played beautifully with root scoring an ATG knock and giving england a good total.

Most of Bumrah's wickets came after root had already scored a century and ensured a winning total.

In the 2nd innings it was similar.

Archer on the other hand took very crucial wickets. His 3 wickets ended up india and were far more impactful then anything Bumrah has done in the series.

Mcgrath wasnt known for mopping up tailenders and dismissing people like Steve smith and root after they already got their cemturies.

He was known for making players like Sachin his bunny. He picked up 5 fers or 10 fers but all his wickets were crucial.

Infact Australia didnt even bring Mcgrath on for tailenders, As Gillispie, Lee etc etc had that covered.

He was always called on for turning the likes of lara, Kallis, Dravid, Sachin etc etc into a joke.

This is 5x now that a batter has played a huge knock under bumrah since BGT.

Travis head, Steve Smith, Ben duckett, Harry Brooks and Joe Root.

Thanks, that is a much better argument than mine

 

[mominsaigol]

Thanks, that is a much better argument than mine

The irony is that these knocks aren't even small. The current knock by root is probs the only one where India wasnt dented too much in the 1st innings and managed to catch up. Otherwise he

Got butchered by Travis Head for a rapid fire 147
Got Butchered by head and Steve Smith for 101 and 151
Got butchered by Steve Smith for a 140
Got butchered by duckett for a double century and Brooks for a 99

Each of these innings batted india out of the game. It was pure comedy.

 

[uppercut]

Your brain seems confused. Perhaps you should argue with yourself first and decide if the T20 WC is the premier flagship trophy or equally popular as the ODI WC before talking to other people.

Does your brain comprehend the difference between Test cricket and white ball cricket ?

Dont be shy to ask if you dont I will school you ( for free!)

 

[uppercut]

Expensive Opinions .

What's ironic is that you are presenting your opinion and claiming it is a fact

what did I say that was not factual ?

 

[mominsaigol]

what did I say that was not factual ?

No no, you are word of God bro. But seriously I am not answering this. I cant subject myself to such torture.

It's like trying to argue with a kid who asked me what 2 + 2 was.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

If he is required to rest and sit out the next match then retirement won't be far away. It will be better for India too if he retires rather than trying to build the side around his fitness.

His body is put under a lot of strain but if he can't play the big games there is no real point in workload management.

 

[Wasim Ghulam]

Mitchel Stark
400 Test Wickets
244 ODI Wickets
50 Plus t20 Wickets
2 ODI WC
1 T20 WC
1 WTC

Stark > Jasprit Let Alone Akram

 

[Mamoon]

Starc vs Bumrah is not even a comparison - Bumrah can’t match his career in his dreams.

 

[mominsaigol]

Mitchel Stark
400 Test Wickets
244 ODI Wickets
50 Plus t20 Wickets
2 ODI WC
1 T20 WC
1 WTC

Stark > Jasprit Let Alone Akram

Greatest bowling economy of all time in a world cup
Fastest test 5 wicket haul

^^ These 2 metrics need to be added.

Also prime starc is > Akram but Akram will remain > due to an extremely extremely extremely long peak

 

[Mamoon]

Since winning at Perth in November, Bumrah has taken 36 wickets in 6 Tests.

India have lost 5 of these Tests and the one draw was due to rain, otherwise India were destined to lose that Test too.

He has taken useless stat-padding to a whole new level.

 

[mominsaigol]

Since winning at Perth in November, Bumrah has taken 36 wickets in 6 Tests.

India have lost 5 of these Tests and the one draw was due to rain, otherwise India were destined to lose that Test too.

He has taken useless stat-padding to a whole new level.

You should check what Starc is doing at present

 

[Wasim Ghulam]

Greatest bowling economy of all time in a world cup
Fastest test 5 wicket haul

^^ These 2 metrics need to be added.

Also prime starc is > Akram but Akram will remain > due to an extremely extremely extremely long peak

we can safely say Bumrah barely evens up @ 50-60% of Stark

 

[Wasim Ghulam]

Greatest bowling economy of all time in a world cup
Fastest test 5 wicket haul

^^ These 2 metrics need to be added.

Also prime starc is > Akram but Akram will remain > due to an extremely extremely extremely long peak

Prime Stark we Saw in CWC Final 2015

 

[mominsaigol]

Prime Stark we Saw in CWC Final 2015

Before that as well. He dominated the entire competition and overall in 2015 he was crazy good.

 

[sweep_shot]

Bumrah cannot be an ATG because he picks and chooses his games. He is pampered like a baby.

Real ATGs have great fitnesses and great records. They don't need to be pampered.

Add to that, Bumrah has a suspicious bowling action. He is possibly a chucker.

 

[Mamoon]

If Starc was Indian, he would have 100M+ followers on IG and his biopic would already be in production.

He is levels above every Indian bowler in history.

 

[Wasim Ghulam]

Before that as well. He dominated the entire competition and overall in 2015 he was crazy good.

i read a news article before CWC 2015 Final.. Aussie Media watched him practice and he was nailing Yorkers at searing pace. No doubt he peaked that season

 

[Wasim Ghulam]

Since winning at Perth in November, Bumrah has taken 36 wickets in 6 Tests.

India have lost 5 of these Tests and the one draw was due to rain, otherwise India were destined to lose that Test too.

He has taken useless stat-padding to a whole new level.

there is a residual fear factor .. Teams want to play him safe and do not attack him much.. Sam Contras took him on and he was fairly successful .

 

[shaz619]

If he is required to rest and sit out the next match then retirement won't be far away. It will be better for India too if he retires rather than trying to build the side around his fitness.

His body is put under a lot of strain but if he can't play the big games there is no real point in workload management.

When he flexes his joints as much as he does, he needs more time to recover and bend his arm as much as he possibly can when he is fit. Their team showed how they could win without him, not sure why they are tempted to cheat, but then again, we’re talking about a place which is famous for taking shortcuts & coming up with some of the most elaborate scams; if they could be a tad decent, the UK Visa would get approved smoothly.

 

[Technics 1210]

It was so obvious that Bumrah was playing at Lord's to get himself on the honours board with a 5fr.

If this ain't stats padding then I don't know what is.

 

[RidiculousMan]

Proof that Bumrah is a stat-padded first before a team player.

Most wickets by fast bowlers in Tests in losing cause in last 5 years

60 Jasprit Bumrah
49 Jayden Seales
48 Alzarri Joseph
41 Blessing Muzarabani
39 Kemar Roach

 

[Mamoon]

Proof that Bumrah is a stat padded first before a team player.

Most wickets by fast bowlers in Tests in losing cause in last 5 years

60 Jasprit Bumrah
49 Jayden Seales
48 Alzarri Joseph
41 Blessing Muzarabani
39 Kemar Roach

Damn, he ruined my racist joke.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Proof that Bumrah is a stat padded first before a team player.

Most wickets by fast bowlers in Tests in losing cause in last 5 years

60 Jasprit Bumrah
49 Jayden Seales
48 Alzarri Joseph
41 Blessing Muzarabani
39 Kemar Roach

I'm not entirely convinced a bowler can be a stat ladder in test cricket, especially a bowler that takes top order wickets.

I will have to think about it more and decide.

 

[Romali_rotti]

Pant was about to launch a counter-attack and had he stayed on the crease for another few overs, India would have been firmly in the driving seat.

Nah bruh, Pant was done for this match, his finger was injured he could barely hold the bat. His whole body language was I just want to get out of here, he needs to be rested for next game can't have players playing unfit...

 

[BouncerGuy]

THREAD IS ABOUT BUMRAH'S WORKLOAD.... KEEP IRRELEVANT STUFF AWAY NOW

 

[James]

He’s been highly effective in the first innings, but is producing diminishing returns in the second innings so far.

2-95 off 35 overs at Headingley and Lord’s which — despite his obvious skill & quality, and the already tiresome fawning from English pundits about him apparently being the greatest bowler in the universe of all time — is a bang average set of second innings figures.

What does this tell us?
1. He is a good, sometimes very good bowler.
2. Despite the wickets he is taking, England are playing him “relatively well” in the sense that they are batting longer than they have in the past under Bazball, e.g. 100 overs, 112 overs and getting lots of work into his legs, and they are tiring him out.
3. Ergo: his fitness is quite poor.

He “should” play in Manchester as India are down in the series and he is a senior player. No point in India potentially losing the series 3-1 and Bumrah coming back for a dead rubber at the Oval.

But he already sat out Edgbaston when India were in a similar position. Wouldn’t be surprising to see him taking another rest.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

He’s been highly effective in the first innings, but is producing diminishing returns in the second innings so far.

2-95 off 35 overs at Headingley and Lord’s which — despite his obvious skill & quality, and the already tiresome fawning from English pundits about him apparently being the greatest bowler in the universe of all time — is a bang average set of second innings figures.

What does this tell us?
1. He is a good, sometimes very good bowler.
2. Despite the wickets he is taking, England are playing him “relatively well” in the sense that they are batting longer than they have in the past under Bazball, e.g. 100 overs, 112 overs and getting lots of work into his legs, and they are tiring him out.
3. Ergo: his fitness is quite poor.

He “should” play in Manchester as India are down in the series and he is a senior player. No point in India potentially losing the series 3-1 and Bumrah coming back for a dead rubber at the Oval.

But he already sat out Edgbaston when India were in a similar position. Wouldn’t be surprising to see him taking another rest.

Bumrah after every over he bowl in International cricket. Thanks to ChatGPT.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

If Starc was Indian, he would have 100M+ followers on IG and his biopic would already be in production.

He is levels above every Indian bowler in history.

He is levels above every Pakistan bowler in history, actually scratch that he is level above your whole nation coz he has won more icc trophies than Pakistan.

Still he is a 27 averaging bowler in tests and doesn’t come anywhere close to Bumrah.

Steyn is also a level above him.


Bumrah has taken more 5fers in wins in SENA than any Asian bowler, as long as that record is with him there is absolutely no evidence to call him a statpadder. Try harder.

 

[Mamoon]

He is levels above every Pakistan bowler in history, actually scratch that he is level above your whole nation coz he has won more icc trophies than Pakistan.

Still he is a 27 averaging bowler in tests and doesn’t come anywhere close to Bumrah.

Steyn is also a level above him.


Bumrah has taken more 5fers in wins in SENA than any Asian bowler, as long as that record is with him there is absolutely no evidence to call him a statpadder. Try harder.

Indians phir ro rahe hain

Starc has had a similar career to Wasim Akram. Similar number of wickets and similar highs in ODI cricket.

Bumrah on the other hand is nowhere near with his Mickey Mouse tally of 200 Test wickets at the age of 31 and he is already limping around.

It is embarrassing to see him sit out after playing just one Test match in 4 months. Starc doesn’t do such nonsense.

Starc is going to retire with far more Test wickets than Bumrah and if we talk about white ball cricket, it is not even worthy of a comparison, because Starc’s 2015 World Cup alone is bigger than Bumrah’s entire white ball career.

Bumrah has as many ICC trophies in ODIs as you have. In Tests, he also doesn’t have a WTC (Starc does) because he bottled it in the final vs New Zealand in 2021.

Only an Indian can have the audacity to argue that Bumrah has had a better career than Starc. It is not even close - Bumrah hasn’t even had 75% of the career that Starc has.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Actually

That is completly untrue. Its time to actually give credit to England for once and analyse the entire game.

England played beautifully with root scoring an ATG knock and giving england a good total.

Most of Bumrah's wickets came after root had already scored a century and ensured a winning total.

In the 2nd innings it was similar.

Archer on the other hand took very crucial wickets. His 3 wickets ended up india and were far more impactful then anything Bumrah has done in the series.

Mcgrath wasnt known for mopping up tailenders and dismissing people like Steve smith and root after they already got their cemturies.

He was known for making players like Sachin his bunny. He picked up 5 fers or 10 fers but all his wickets were crucial.

Infact Australia didnt even bring Mcgrath on for tailenders, As Gillispie, Lee etc etc had that covered.

He was always called on for turning the likes of lara, Kallis, Dravid, Sachin etc etc into a joke.

This is 5x now that a batter has played a huge knock under bumrah since BGT.

Travis head, Steve Smith, Ben duckett, Harry Brooks and Joe Root.

yeah, root already played a match winning knock, sure.

The match was evenly poised after the dirst two innings, even after the third innings completed the chances of winning were about even, its like saying KL Rahul already played a match winning knock when he scored that hundred.

You lack understanding of the game, i told you bro, watvh cricket for 5 more years and yhen come back to this forum.

Actually Bumrah uprooting Root was a major wicket and ensured that England doesn’t grt a hefty lead.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Indians phir ro rahe hain

Starc has had a similar career to Wasim Akram. Similar number of wickets and similar highs in ODI cricket.

No he hasn’t, lol. He won two odi world cups and his record in wc is better than any Pakistani bowler.

Bumrah on the other hand is nowhere near with his Mickey Mouse tally of 200 Test wickets at the age of 31 and he is already limping around.

It is embarrassing to see him sit out after playing just one Test match in 4 months. Starc doesn’t do such nonsense.

Starc is going to retire with far more Test wickets than Bumrah and if we talk about white ball cricket, it is not even worthy of a comparison, because Starc’s 2015 World Cup alone is bigger than Bumrah’s entire white ball career.

His world cup 15 performance is also bigger than entire career of Khan, Akram, Steyn, Root etc, doesn’t matter and doesn’t make him bigger than all of them

Bumrah has as many ICC trophies in ODIs as you have. In Tests, he also doesn’t have a WTC (Starc does) because he bottled it in the final vs New Zealand in 2021.

Only an Indian can have the audacity to argue that Bumrah has had a better career than Starc. It is not even close - Bumrah hasn’t even had 75% of the career that Starc has.

Yeah that’s what I am saying if trophies are the thing that matter then he has had more legacy than the entire Pakistani team, coz he has won more icc titles than them.

He is also not a sellout who fixed match against his team, so overall a much better career than anyone from Pakistan and acutely a bigger legacy than your whole nation.

 

[RKhan_Cricket]

I honestly believe it would be better if India play the next Test without Bumrah.
Right now, it feels like the other bowlers tend to relax mentally when they know Bumrah is there to bail them out. The moment you remove him from the equation, you see a different level of intensity—bowlers suddenly step up, show more energy, and make the ball talk. We saw that in the second Test.
Even in his recent five-wicket haul, most wickets were from the lower order. When the game was in the balance, he wasn’t able to make the breakthroughs India needed. It’s not about form; it’s about long-term sustainability and how the team is evolving.
This team is already going through a transition phase, and it might be smarter to prepare for life without Bumrah sooner rather than later. Given his history of injuries, especially the back issues, I don’t think his body will hold up if he continues playing Test cricket regularly. In fact, in one of his interviews, he even hinted at this, saying something like, “It’s better for me to play for at least three more years rather than retire right now from my favorite format because of injury. So I’ll play a few Tests from now on.”
That clearly suggests he's already thinking about reducing his workload or possibly retiring from Tests after this cycle.
With that in mind, India should seriously consider moving forward without him in the longer format. It’s better to prepare now than to scramble later.

 

[mominsaigol]

Actually

yeah, root already played a match winning knock, sure.

The match was evenly poised after the dirst two innings, even after the third innings completed the chances of winning were about even, its like saying KL Rahul already played a match winning knock when he scored that hundred.

You lack understanding of the game, i told you bro, watvh cricket for 5 more years and yhen come back to this forum.

Actually Bumrah uprooting Root was a major wicket and ensured that England doesn’t grt a hefty lead.

Excluding a few indian posters who have been labelled as part of the clown gang, their isnt a single poster on the forumn that views you > me.

Root innings was match winning as he's really the onpy one who scored. Without him India would have easily taken a lead and the rest was history.

Similarly Archer despite taking less wickets took the 3 most important wickets especially Pant and Jaiswal who considered as India's top ace by certain posters.

Bumrah hasnt taken a single important wickets this match, one that would turn the tides towards india.

The match was never evenly poised in the 2nd innings. Jadeja played an ATG knock which resulted in a minor stage fright for England otherwise it was a 70 run beatdown victory.

Archer and Root won it. Bumrah 100% lost it though. Not with the ball but with the bat. Their is no, i repeat zero excuse or justification for the shot that he played. He proved that he could defend extremely well and let jadeja handle it.

He also knew Siraj is hopeless. He crippled Jadeja but ofcourse you will utilise the agenda of him being a tailender.

 

[Rajdeep]

Playing devil's advocate, I must admit that after reading all the posts it is clear that brother @uppercut is the winner of this debate. All his points were stats based and factual where as only name calling & cheap memes being dished out from other side. Never seen veteran posters and legends here losing so badly when countered with facts. Some poster this uppercut guy.

 

[mominsaigol]

Playing devil's advocate, I must admit that after reading all the posts it is clear that brother @uppercut is the winner of this debate. All his points were stats based and factual where as only name calling & cheap memes being dished out from other side. Never seen veteran posters and legends here losing so badly when countered with facts. Some poster this uppercut guy.

Do you even know what devil's advocate means in a debate?

It means you are siding with a certain stance that you don't believe in but are arguing it for the purpose of a debate.

You're basically stating you dont agree @uppercut owned anyone and got smacked but you are defending him for debate purposes.

Tesco needs to teach their employees

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Excluding a few indian posters who have been labelled as part of the clown gang, their isnt a single poster on the forumn that views you > me.

Root innings was match winning as he's really the onpy one who scored. Without him India would have easily taken a lead and the rest was history.

Similarly Archer despite taking less wickets took the 3 most important wickets especially Pant and Jaiswal who considered as India's top ace by certain posters.

Bumrah hasnt taken a single important wickets this match, one that would turn the tides towards india.

The match was never evenly poised in the 2nd innings. Jadeja played an ATG knock which resulted in a minor stage fright for England otherwise it was a 70 run beatdown victory.

Archer and Root won it. Bumrah 100% lost it though. Not with the ball but with the bat. Their is no, i repeat zero excuse or justification for the shot that he played. He proved that he could defend extremely well and let jadeja handle it.

He also knew Siraj is hopeless. He crippled Jadeja but ofcourse you will utilise the agenda of him being a tailender.

Yeah, now pray tell how Roots knock was in any way different to Rahuls knock, both scored 100. There was absolutely no one ahead at the start of third innings. We reached 387 and that too after an idiotic run out of Pant, Roots 100 wasn’t the difference between the team, it was actually the tailenders run that England scored.

Kl Rahul matched Roots knock, and we were in a good position at start of third innings.
Sorry, but Roots century was in no way the match winning factor.

 

[mominsaigol]

Yeah, now pray tell how Roots knock was in any way different to Rahuls knock, both scored 100. There was absolutely no one ahead at the start of third innings. We reached 387 and that too after an idiotic run out of Pant, Roots 100 wasn’t the difference between the team, it was actually the tailenders run that England scored.

Kl Rahul matched Roots knock, and we were in a good position at start of third innings.
Sorry, but Roots century was in no way the match winning factor.

If it wasnt for root, India would have taken the lead. End of story. He and Archer ensured India's demise.

His 40 in the 2nd innings was also a decisive factor between a loss and a win as India only lost by 21 runs in the end.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

If it wasnt for root, India would have taken the lead. End of story. He and Archer ensured India's demise.

His 40 in the 2nd innings was also a decisive factor between a loss and a win as India only lost by 21 runs in the end.

Not convincing enough.

England would have lost without that ugly 44 from Pope in the first innings, but that doesn’t make his knock an impactful one.

Root was matched by Kl Rahul in both the innings, he wasn’t the deciding factor.

That 56 by Carse was the deciding factor, and was the difference between the two teams.

 

[Rajdeep]

Do you even know what devil's advocate means in a debate?

It means you are siding with a certain stance that you don't believe in but are arguing it for the purpose of a debate.

You're basically stating you dont agree @uppercut owned anyone and got smacked but you are defending him for debate purposes.

Tesco needs to teach their employees

I meant I put my devils advocate hat and read all the posts. The winner is clear as crystal balls. However, continue brother...

 

[mominsaigol]

I meant I put my devils advocate hat and read all the posts. The winner is clear as crystal balls. However, continue brother...

You put your DA hat to cover that bald spot

 

[mominsaigol]

Not convincing enough.

England would have lost without that ugly 44 from Pope in the first innings, but that doesn’t make his knock an impactful one.

Root was matched by Kl Rahul in both the innings, he wasn’t the deciding factor.

That 56 by Carse was the deciding factor, and was the difference between the two teams.

Let me put it into simple words

A) No root century = India takes a massive lead

B) No root 40 = India wins.

C) No Archer storm = India wins.

End of story.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Let me put it into simple words

A) No root century = India takes a massive lead

B) No root 40 = India wins.

C) No Archer storm = India wins.

End of story.

Already debunked that.

 

[mominsaigol]

Already debunked that.

Yes you debunked it bro. @sweep_shot @Bhaag Viru Bhaag @Ice Man

Get a load of this, He said carse 56 in the 1st innings made all the difference even though the 1st innings scored was tied but root 40's in the 2nd innings wasnt the decisive factor in an innings where india lost by 21 runs .

Carse scored 1 run in that innings

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Yes you debunked it bro. @sweep_shot @Bhaag Viru Bhaag @Ice Man

Get a load of this, He said carse 56 in the 1st innings made all the difference even though the 1st innings scored was tied but root 40's in the 2nd innings wasnt the decisive factor in an innings where india lost by 21 runs .

Carse scored 1 run in that innings

This shows that you don’t have faith in yourself , so you need to tag the troll army.

Sign of defeat.

 

[mominsaigol]

This shows that you don’t have faith in yourself , so you need to tag the troll army.

Sign of defeat.

Yeah you defeated me. Okay buddy .

Carse 56 totally made the difference over root 103 despite india equalling the score. Root 40 made 0 difference despite india losing by 21 runs and root ensuring england get something to defend rather then being bundled out for 150.

It is carse who scored an almighty 1 run in the 2nd innings that was the true difference maker. What an amazing winner you are.

 

[RizwanT20Champ]

Odi wc > Ashes.

England and Australia do not have that hostile rivalry anymore, now ashes is just tradition.

Pakistan and India are obviously more hostile

If a proud and pure Aussie fan like you says it it must be true.

 

[mominsaigol]

If a proud and pure Aussie fan like you says it it must be true.

Even Australians would agree unless you are a pre Millenial Aussie. Do some research before coming up with rubbish

 

[RizwanT20Champ]

Even Australians would agree unless you are a pre Millenial Aussie. Do some research before coming up with rubbish

I am agreeing with you bro. I don't often get to talk to pure Aussies like you. An honour.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Even Australians would agree unless you are a pre Millenial Aussie. Do some research before coming up with rubbish

A few years ago cricket was only the ashes for England and Australia.

From a UK perspective the celebrations for the 05 Ashes were massive compared to the ODI wc win. The t20 was 0.

If Aussie youngsters are embracing ODI cricket more then it's a good sign for the game.

 

[mominsaigol]

A few years ago cricket was only the ashes for England and Australia.

From a UK perspective the celebrations for the 05 Ashes were massive compared to the ODI wc win. The t20 was 0.

If Aussie youngsters are embracing ODI cricket more then it's a good sign for the game.

Ashes is still no 2, but millennial and Gen Z aussies clearly favour Odi wc more then Ashes.

Its only ore era who never truly accepted Odi as real cricket that still are hesistant.

2011 Ponting was extremely hurt by his exit and started crying cause he knew it was the end of an era.

While Aus did recover in 2015 the classic endless domination where even win in 2 game vs Aus was seen as an achievement was clearly over.

He never cried over Any Ashes defeat or any of that. Ponting coaching Clarke in 2015 was all geared towards winning 2015 wc.

They have clearly prioritised Wc over Ashes. Its time to accept that every team views Odi WC as no 1 although that trend may soon change as Odi continues to die on end.

 

[uppercut]

Playing devil's advocate, I must admit that after reading all the posts it is clear that brother @uppercut is the winner of this debate. All his points were stats based and factual where as only name calling & cheap memes being dished out from other side. Never seen veteran posters and legends here losing so badly when countered with facts. Some poster this uppercut guy.

Soo easy isn't it ? ... and I didn't even have to teach mathematics this time to the punks

But Mucho fun to see the usual suspects and their hijda minion going nuts lol

 

[Mamoon]

What I find amusing is the desperation of Indian fans to label Bumrah as the GOAT. They are in more hurry than a person with loose motions looking to find a toilet.

Granted that the desperation is understandable given India's pathetic pace bowling legacy, but the rest of us who have seen better bowlers than Bumrah play for our respective countries are in no rush to label a 200 Test wickets bowler and 0 ODI World Cups as the GOAT.

It is like Bangladesh producing a 57 averaging batsman and calling him the GOAT after 4K runs. Comical.

 

[RexRex]

What I find amusing is the desperation of Indian fans to label Bumrah as the GOAT. They are in more hurry than a person with loose motions looking to find a toilet.

Granted that the desperation is understandable given India's pathetic pace bowling legacy, but the rest of us who have seen better bowlers than Bumrah play for our respective countries are in no rush to label a 200 Test wickets bowler and 0 ODI World Cups as the GOAT.

It is like Bangladesh producing a 57 averaging batsman and calling him the GOAT after 4K runs. Comical.

^ Massive cope going on.

One indian bowler has come out of nowere and blown away Pakistan's entire fast bowling legacy. That must be really tough to take as a fan of a proud fast bowling nation. I sympathize with u.

 

[Mamoon]

^ Massive cope going on.

One indian bowler has come out of nowere and blown away Pakistan's entire fast bowling legacy. That must be really tough to take as a fan of a proud fast bowling nation. I sympathize with u.

only 200 Test wickets by the age of 31 and limping already and 0 World Cup trophies,