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Is an India-Pakistan final in the 2023 World Test Championship possible?

street cricketer

street cricketer

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So I was just randomly scrolling through my twitter feed when I came across this picture:

Ev1AooIXYAEABOS.jpg

The above picture shows the fixtures for the next cycle of World Test Championship. If we're being honest, theoretically these sides are the contenders for the next WTC final spots - Ind, Aus, Eng, NZ, SA and Pak.

So looking at the respective fixtures for each team, they stack up as follows. I will classify the fixtures of each team into "Difficult series" (series that the team is expected to lose potentially) and series that the team is expected to win.

India -

Difficult series - England away.

All the other series they're expected to win. Australia at home might be tricky because Aus will be battle hardened after their tours to Sri Lanka and Pakistan, but I would still expect India to prevail. South Africa away is also a tricky fixture. But India ran close a very strong South African side in their home when AB de Villiers proved to be the difference in the end. But since then, South Africa have lost AB, Amla, Faf, Philander, Steyn and Morkel. So theoretically India should not have much problems if they play to their potential.

Australia -

Difficult series - Pakistan and India away. Sri Lanka away potentially.

Australia should win the Ashes and dispose off a weak South African side at home. But this time, Australia are going to face trial by spin away from home. Probably the most difficult away fixtures for a team in terms of familiarity in conditions, it's not inconceivable to think that Australia might lose all three series, although I think Aus will win in Sri Lanka.

England -

Difficult series - Australia and Pakistan away.

India and NZ might prove tricky at home. And they have to face Australia in the Ashes away and Pakistan in Pakistan. So technically a pretty difficult schedule for England this cycle.

New Zealand -

Difficult series - England, India and Pakistan away.

New Zealand arguably had the easiest of fixtures this cycle but their schedule for the next cycle is not so forgiving. Pretty much all three of their away fixtures are difficult series for them and even though NZ have had a good record vs Pakistan in the UAE, facing them in Pakistan might be a different kettle of fish. So a very hard schedule for the Kiwis next cycle.

South Africa -

Difficult series - NZ, England and Australia away. India at home potentially.

India at home might prove to be a difficult series for a weakened South African side. And all of their away fixtures seem to be too big a mountain for the inexperienced Saffer side to scale. Don't see them making the final and this cycle is going to be a rebuilding phase for them.

Pakistan -

Difficult series - None.

All their home fixtures might prove to be tricky, but ones they're expected to win nonetheless going by past records. Pakistan has the easiest schedule this cycle and they're expected to win nearly all their away fixtures. Unless Pakistan mess up badly, I can't see how Pakistan doesn't make the final of the WTC in 2023.

So in summary, looking at the fixtures, I would rank the difficulty of fixtures for each team as (from easiest to toughest):

Pak > Ind > Eng > Aus > NZ > SA.

Cricket is a funny game and anything can happen out of normalcy. But if everything goes according to normal expectations, there is a very high chance that India and Pakistan might square up against each other in the final of the next WTC in 2023.

Your thoughts?
 
Ab Fan said:
What is the venue of next cycle of WTC final?
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Given this year's final is scheduled to take place in England and the next T20WC and ODI WC in India, wouldn't be surprised if it's scheduled to take place in Australia.

Then again, I think it will be AFL season during that time of the year when the WTC final is scheduled to occur, so again, I'm not sure really.
 
Bad thread title but a really good analysis inside.

"Pakistan difficult series: None"

Bhai, we once played an all seam track in UAE vs SL and lost! :yk all Pak series have potential to be tricky. You never know! :yk

I don't see India winning in England & SA. All other will be easier for them.

Too early to make any predictions at this point, anyways.
 
Pakistan's FTP schedule for the next cycle is the easiest, but the NZ series at home will be tough, as they have had our number recently. Away series in SL and WI can be tricky too.
 
Pakistan will have to play extremely well to take even 200 out of the total 360 home points against Aus, Eng and NZ.

Away series to West Indies won't be easy at all in fact they'll go in as underdogs...

I predict an India Vs England final..
 
Mesozoic said:
Pakistan will have to play extremely well to take even 200 out of the total 360 home points against Aus, Eng and NZ.

Away series to West Indies won't be easy at all in fact they'll go in as underdogs...

I predict an India Vs England final..
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Nah, Pak won't be underdogs, as they haven't lost in WI since 2000, but it can be a tricky series..
 
Not a fan of WTC. This WTC was pretty absymal. Hope it's better next time. One good thing is that we will see neutral venue matches more like the finals. Those will be the most highly valued matches.
 
street cricketer said:
Given this year's final is scheduled to take place in England and the next T20WC and ODI WC in India, wouldn't be surprised if it's scheduled to take place in Australia.

Then again, I think it will be AFL season during that time of the year when the WTC final is scheduled to occur, so again, I'm not sure really.
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honestly we more chances to win in India against India than :dw
Ind in Australia, we suddenly become minnow level team in Aus
 
Pak vs india or india vs eng. Both are a possibility but i will be really disappointed if pak dont make it. They should aim at preparing dust bowls at home and get atleast 270 points. Then white wash bangladesh, get 180 points against srl+wi.
 
Hard to predict right now. We don't know which players will kick on and which players may decline. Teams could look very different in a year or so.

I really like the concept of the test championship. Could do with some tweaks. But it's a good idea as it makes test matches even more valuable.
 
Heisenberg111 said:
Nah, Pak won't be underdogs, as they haven't lost in WI since 2000, but it can be a tricky series..
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You do banghra over stats but a little stat for you, Pakistan have only won 1 series in West Indies and that was in 2017.
 
There shouldn't be any excuses. The fixture list is as kind as it'll ever be and anything less than a WTC final berth for Pakistan is a failure.
 
street cricketer said:
So I was just randomly scrolling through my twitter feed when I came across this picture:

View attachment 107844

The above picture shows the fixtures for the next cycle of World Test Championship. If we're being honest, theoretically these sides are the contenders for the next WTC final spots - Ind, Aus, Eng, NZ, SA and Pak.

So looking at the respective fixtures for each team, they stack up as follows. I will classify the fixtures of each team into "Difficult series" (series that the team is expected to lose potentially) and series that the team is expected to win.

India -

Difficult series - England away.

All the other series they're expected to win. Australia at home might be tricky because Aus will be battle hardened after their tours to Sri Lanka and Pakistan, but I would still expect India to prevail. South Africa away is also a tricky fixture. But India ran close a very strong South African side in their home when AB de Villiers proved to be the difference in the end. But since then, South Africa have lost AB, Amla, Faf, Philander, Steyn and Morkel. So theoretically India should not have much problems if they play to their potential.

Australia -

Difficult series - Pakistan and India away. Sri Lanka away potentially.

Australia should win the Ashes and dispose off a weak South African side at home. But this time, Australia are going to face trial by spin away from home. Probably the most difficult away fixtures for a team in terms of familiarity in conditions, it's not inconceivable to think that Australia might lose all three series, although I think Aus will win in Sri Lanka.

England -

Difficult series - Australia and Pakistan away.

India and NZ might prove tricky at home. And they have to face Australia in the Ashes away and Pakistan in Pakistan. So technically a pretty difficult schedule for England this cycle.

New Zealand -

Difficult series - England, India and Pakistan away.

New Zealand arguably had the easiest of fixtures this cycle but their schedule for the next cycle is not so forgiving. Pretty much all three of their away fixtures are difficult series for them and even though NZ have had a good record vs Pakistan in the UAE, facing them in Pakistan might be a different kettle of fish. So a very hard schedule for the Kiwis next cycle.

South Africa -

Difficult series - NZ, England and Australia away. India at home potentially.

India at home might prove to be a difficult series for a weakened South African side. And all of their away fixtures seem to be too big a mountain for the inexperienced Saffer side to scale. Don't see them making the final and this cycle is going to be a rebuilding phase for them.

Pakistan -

Difficult series - None.

All their home fixtures might prove to be tricky, but ones they're expected to win nonetheless going by past records. Pakistan has the easiest schedule this cycle and they're expected to win nearly all their away fixtures. Unless Pakistan mess up badly, I can't see how Pakistan doesn't make the final of the WTC in 2023.

So in summary, looking at the fixtures, I would rank the difficulty of fixtures for each team as (from easiest to toughest):

Pak > Ind > Eng > Aus > NZ > SA.

Cricket is a funny game and anything can happen out of normalcy. But if everything goes according to normal expectations, there is a very high chance that India and Pakistan might square up against each other in the final of the next WTC in 2023.

Your thoughts?
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Good analysis. India in SA is the final frontier for this team. This Indian batting will face issues on those pitches.
 
Heisenberg111 said:
Nah, Pak won't be underdogs, as they haven't lost in WI since 2000, but it can be a tricky series..
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So? Seriously, what is with people on this forum and going blindly by historic data? :))

How many members of the current Pakistan test squad have even played a test in the Caribbean? I know Azhar and Yasir did and we all know they're not even half the players they were in 2016/17......
 
Hasan123 said:
You do banghra over stats but a little stat for you, Pakistan have only won 1 series in West Indies and that was in 2017.
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So ? Pakistan haven't lost in the Caribbean since 2000 and shouldn't lose this time either. Infact failing to win there should be considered a failure.
 
Heisenberg111 said:
Yeah, Pakistan should win, but I won't be surprised if the series is drawn tbh.
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The wickets in the WI have undergone a drastic change in the last few years. From slow dry SC type surfaces in the early-mid 2010s to the lively spicy wickets on which England were destroyed. And except Shaheen, Pak currently has no one to utilize them efficiently. Hasan looks a bowler who'll do better on dry Asian wickets aiding reverse...

Meanwhile WI has Holder, Gabriel, Roach and Alzarri Joseph...three of them standing above 6'2....
 
Hasan123 said:
You do banghra over stats but a little stat for you, Pakistan have only won 1 series in West Indies and that was in 2017.
Click to expand...

Pakistan was unlucky to not win in 1988 and 2000, when both times umpires robbed them, and those were much stronger West Indian sides.
 
Mesozoic said:
The wickets in the WI have undergone a drastic change in the last few years. From slow dry SC type surfaces in the early-mid 2010s to the lively spicy wickets on which England were destroyed. And except Shaheen, Pak currently has no one to utilize them efficiently. Hasan looks a bowler who'll do better on dry Asian wickets aiding reverse...

Meanwhile WI has Holder, Gabriel, Roach and Alzarri Joseph...three of them standing above 6'2....
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Pakistan won't be underdogs for that series thats for sure. Lets see how Sri Lanka does there in their current series.
 
Mesozoic said:
So? Seriously, what is with people on this forum and going blindly by historic data? :))

How many members of the current Pakistan test squad have even played a test in the Caribbean? I know Azhar and Yasir did and we all know they're not even half the players they were in 2016/17......
Click to expand...

Azhar, Yasir, Hassan Ali, Babar all played in 2017 in the Carribbean.
 
Last Monetarist said:
There's no indication that the ICC is even committed to the next WTC cycle, going by the comments from the new ICC chairman Greg Barclay.
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Rest assured. If India win the WTC, there will be another WTC. This hopefully isn't a case of the CT where India lost (after trying to defend), and the torunament was ended.
 
Heisenberg111 said:
Azhar, Yasir, Hassan Ali, Babar all played in 2017 in the Carribbean.
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Yes and as I've already said (and most agree with), Azhar Ali and Yasir Shah are nowhere near as good as they were back then. So it'll be unwise to expect the former to average 45+ and the latter to pick fifers after fifers this time around as the pitch conditions have changed quite a bit too....
 
Mesozoic said:
Yes and as I've already said (and most agree with), Azhar Ali and Yasir Shah are nowhere near as good as they were back then. So it'll be unwise to expect the former to average 45+ and the latter to pick fifers after fifers this time around as the pitch conditions have changed quite a bit too....
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Yasir will do well there. WI batting is weaker than in 2017, and they heavily struggle against legspinners.
 
Heisenberg111 said:
Pakistan was unlucky to not win in 1988 and 2000, when both times umpires robbed them, and those were much stronger West Indian sides.
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Still didn't win. That's what the record books show. 1 series win in 20 years is not an impressive record especially as West Indies have been a poor test team through that period.
 
szrana007 said:
So ? Pakistan haven't lost in the Caribbean since 2000 and shouldn't lose this time either. Infact failing to win there should be considered a failure.
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The record books show Pakistan didn't win those series. Winning 1 series against West Indies away in 20 years is a poor record . You and your buddy never mention that we have only one 1 series in West Indies in our history. Obviously it doesn't meet your agenda so you won't mention it
 
Hasan123 said:
The record books show Pakistan didn't win those series. Winning 1 series against West Indies away in 20 years is a poor record . You and your buddy never mention that we have only one 1 series in West Indies in our history. Obviously it doesn't meet your agenda so you won't mention it
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Pakistan have the 3rd best W/L ratio in the Caribbean after Aus and SA, so a pretty good record, only a fool would call it poor.

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...rby=win_loss_ratio;template=results;type=team
 
Pakistan's success depends on a variety of factors, primarily regarding squad selection and how the team will shape up in the near future.

Firstly, the opening pair. Imran Butt and Abid Ali are not viable solutions to the problem we have in the opening department, and one of Abdullah, Haider, or Usman Salahuddin needs to be groomed for that role right away so that they can at least have some experience to see if they are successful in that position. Even Imam wouldn't be a bad option if he can produce runs in the domestic circuit. Opening in subcontinent is far easier than SENA, and the ball won't swing after the first maybe 5 overs, so it just depends on who is in better form and can bat for longer as well.

Next, Azhar's replacement at 3 will be crucial. This is going to be a big determinant of how we play, because our number 3 batsman will need to be fluent against both pace and spin, and looking at domestic cricket, it's either going to be between Kamran Ghulam or Saud Shakeel. One of these must be groomed for that role, and they should try to replicate what Pujara does for India, soak up deliveries and build long partnerships to see through different stages of the game.

Babar Azam at four will have to start hitting his peak soon in test cricket, because if he fires at home, our batting could hold itself together especially with some good lower order batsmen in the mix as well.

Fawad Alam at five would be fine given that he's still performing, but if he isn't, either Kamran Ghulam or Saud Shakeel should be brought in for that role. Similarly, there is an option of promoting Faheem Ashraf up the order as a batsman, but I need to see more of his batting to make that judgement.

Rizwan takes the number six spot quite easily, there's no questions there at all.

If we are playing major series at home, then there are a few things we need to keep. Firstly, we need a competent tail so that we can string a lot of runs together, but we also need to make sure that we aren't compromising on the bowling front either. If I were a chief selector right now, I'd try to introduce Mohammad Nawaz back into the test side soon, as a batting all-rounder who can bowl reliable spin. If not him, then I'd go for Zafar Gohar, another viable option. Salman Ali Agha is also another option, but he's more of a part-timer than a reliable front-line bowler.

Yasir Shah is a must if we are playing at home, but Nauman Ali could be replaced by Sajid Khan if we think that it's a viable option.

We need one more good pacer to accompany Shaheen and Hasan. The three options I'm looking at are Shahnawaz Dahani, Irfanullah Shah, and Mohammad Abbas. Abbas needs a bit more pace to start taking wickets, but it wouldn't be a bad call to give Dahani or Irfanullah a shot to see how they fare.

So if our team shapes up to have players in form, and the right combination of players, we definitely have a chance of making the final.

We definitely have a good chance to make that final, so lets hope that our test team starts making ends meet and starts performing.
 
Mesozoic said:
Pakistan will have to play extremely well to take even 200 out of the total 360 home points against Aus, Eng and NZ.

Away series to West Indies won't be easy at all in fact they'll go in as underdogs...

I predict an India Vs England final..
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Agreed, but if a few more stadiums are renovated, we can make pure dust bowls for all of these teams.

For AUS, we'll need to play Lyon on those tracks but their fast bowlers would be rendered useless.

ENG don't have a frontline spinner, so they should be the easiest to roll over.

NZ are in good form, but they play spin like they have blindfolds on their eyes.

If we don't make mistakes with the pitches, and make sure that they are spin condusive, we have a good chance of beating all three of those sides.

Our batting needs to step up another level as well. Bat first, and bowl when the pitch deteriorates should be our plan for home series.
 
Full strength West Indies wont be easy for Pakistan. Most likely WI will produce fast bouncy pitches & unleash their pace bowlers on Pakistan - who are known to struggle against bounce

But Pakistan should win all the home series against Eng / Aus / NZ ; at least thats what most Pakistan fans believe they are capable of - going by the debates over last 7 days

If Pakistan does not make it to WTC final with this FTP , then there should be no excuses
 
szrana007 said:
Whats my agenda? whats your agenda? lol

You seriously need to chill and stop getting angry on little things. Its not good for health.
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Where I am getting angry? You only posts stats which make Pakistan look good.
 
szrana007 said:
No I only post stats that are relevant. [MENTION=2016]Rana[/MENTION] your friend is getting angry again.
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I don’t understand why your tagging someone else and resorting to cheap insults. The fact your resorting to this shows you had no answer to the fact you only post stats which make Pakistan look good.
 
Hasan123 said:
I don’t understand why your tagging someone else and resorting to cheap insults. The fact your resorting to this shows you had no answer to the fact you only post stats which make Pakistan look good.
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Where have I insulted you? Jeez, you are so sensitive, get a grip.

And I have posted many threads here with stats which make Pakistan look bad like these.

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...rds-for-teams-against-South-Africa&highlight=

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...t-Test-series-records-in-Australia&highlight=

So your claim about me posting stats to only make Pakistan look good is false.
 
Hasan123 said:
Don’t care about W/L record. 1 series win is not great.
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Pakistan's W/L ratio in WI is good, because Pakistan have always been competitive in the Caribbean, even when West Indies were a great team. Pakistan have only had one bad tour of West Indies in their history and that was in 1993.

Even in the first ever tour of West Indies in 1958, Pakistan won a Test in Port of Spain against a strong WI team.

So even if Pakistan weren't able to win a series in the Caribbean till 2017, Pak had done quite well in West Indies. And cricket pundits from across the world acknowledge this fact.

Here I am sharing two great pieces on Pak/WI rivalry of the old by Samir Chopra and Rob Smyth for anyone who is interested.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/...-s-pakistan-matched-the-mighty-windies-652537

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2007/jun/14/cricket
 
Seriously, no difficult series for Pakistan ?

None of the home series are bankers, and neither are the away series with the possible exception of Bangladesh.

We're poor against spin so Sri Lanka away won't be easy. And we're even worse against bounce - which makes the tour of West Indies a tough prospect too.
 
Lets see how Sri Lanka fare in the upcoming Test series in WI. That should give us a good idea of what to expect for Pak in the Caribbean later in the year.
 
The annoying thing here is that even if Pakistan do meet India in the final and they win, based on the things I've read on this forum over the years, to a number of folks here it wouldn't count as the final is a one off. Also that Pakistan didn't beat Aus, NZ, and Eng in their turfs. Therefore, the WTC title being a farce just like the number 1 T20 ranking :rahi
 
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TeamPak95 said:
The annoying thing here is that even if Pakistan do meet India in the final and they win, based on the things I've read on this forum over the years, to a number of folks here it wouldn't count as the final is a one off. Also that Pakistan didn't beat Aus, NZ, and Eng in their turfs. Therefore, the WTC title being a farce just like the number 1 T20 ranking :rahi
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Annoying this is your assumptions . Win and meet in finals and u win finals , congrats . Don’t expect to be respected or revered as champion team .

To win a one of final is not the same as winning consistently and being dominant . Current England in odi , Australia team of 2000 etc were champion teams and they deserved to win . Had nz won the World Cup final it would have been a one of thing

Similarly , New Zealand right now is much inferior to English test team . The English are unlucky to miss the finals .
 
I would be surprised if PAK don’t qualify for the final given their schedule.
 
docteurmanish said:
Annoying this is your assumptions . Win and meet in finals and u win finals , congrats . Don’t expect to be respected or revered as champion team .

To win a one of final is not the same as winning consistently and being dominant . Current England in odi , Australia team of 2000 etc were champion teams and they deserved to win . Had nz won the World Cup final it would have been a one of thing

Similarly , New Zealand right now is much inferior to English test team . The English are unlucky to miss the finals .
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I was only referring to those who probably won't even show an iota of excitement if Pak were to win in the final and just label it as a fluke. Winning a tourney doesn't automatically mean your team is an ATG team, yes, but there's nothing wrong with celebrating the moment. I do agree with you though, the true champion teams are those that are consistently winning.
 
Markhor said:
Seriously, no difficult series for Pakistan ?

None of the home series are bankers, and neither are the away series with the possible exception of Bangladesh.

We're poor against spin so Sri Lanka away won't be easy. And we're even worse against bounce - which makes the tour of West Indies a tough prospect too.
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I think it can be reworded to the easiest possible path.

If you had to pick these 6 teams then playing Eng, NZ, and Aus at home is the best possible combination Pakistan can get. On the flip side, No away series will be easier than playing in BD, SL, and WI.
 
Last Monetarist said:
There's no indication that the ICC is even committed to the next WTC cycle, going by the comments from the new ICC chairman Greg Barclay.
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Exactly I've looked everywhere & didn't found any indication at all that ICC World test championship would be continued. But if they really want it to continue they should make it 7- 8 team tournament with top 7-8 teams of current WTC, I'm sorry but the likes of Bangladesh doesn't deserve to be in this sort of championship. They need to play in 2nd division & get promotion for the new cycle.
Ideally I would like everyone to play 4 games against each other 2 at home & 2 away with final being played between top 2 teams after 4 years.
 
Buffet said:
I think it can be reworded to the easiest possible path.

If you had to pick these 6 teams then playing Eng, NZ, and Aus at home is the best possible combination Pakistan can get. On the flip side, No away series will be easier than playing in BD, SL, and WI.
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Pretty much this. The only thing that could be easier is if they replace Eng/Aus with SA
 
street cricketer said:
So I was just randomly scrolling through my twitter feed when I came across this picture:

View attachment 107844

The above picture shows the fixtures for the next cycle of World Test Championship. If we're being honest, theoretically these sides are the contenders for the next WTC final spots - Ind, Aus, Eng, NZ, SA and Pak.

So looking at the respective fixtures for each team, they stack up as follows. I will classify the fixtures of each team into "Difficult series" (series that the team is expected to lose potentially) and series that the team is expected to win.

India -

Difficult series - England away.

All the other series they're expected to win. Australia at home might be tricky because Aus will be battle hardened after their tours to Sri Lanka and Pakistan, but I would still expect India to prevail. South Africa away is also a tricky fixture. But India ran close a very strong South African side in their home when AB de Villiers proved to be the difference in the end. But since then, South Africa have lost AB, Amla, Faf, Philander, Steyn and Morkel. So theoretically India should not have much problems if they play to their potential.

Australia -

Difficult series - Pakistan and India away. Sri Lanka away potentially.

Australia should win the Ashes and dispose off a weak South African side at home. But this time, Australia are going to face trial by spin away from home. Probably the most difficult away fixtures for a team in terms of familiarity in conditions, it's not inconceivable to think that Australia might lose all three series, although I think Aus will win in Sri Lanka.

England -

Difficult series - Australia and Pakistan away.

India and NZ might prove tricky at home. And they have to face Australia in the Ashes away and Pakistan in Pakistan. So technically a pretty difficult schedule for England this cycle.

New Zealand -

Difficult series - England, India and Pakistan away.

New Zealand arguably had the easiest of fixtures this cycle but their schedule for the next cycle is not so forgiving. Pretty much all three of their away fixtures are difficult series for them and even though NZ have had a good record vs Pakistan in the UAE, facing them in Pakistan might be a different kettle of fish. So a very hard schedule for the Kiwis next cycle.

South Africa -

Difficult series - NZ, England and Australia away. India at home potentially.

India at home might prove to be a difficult series for a weakened South African side. And all of their away fixtures seem to be too big a mountain for the inexperienced Saffer side to scale. Don't see them making the final and this cycle is going to be a rebuilding phase for them.

Pakistan -

Difficult series - None.

All their home fixtures might prove to be tricky, but ones they're expected to win nonetheless going by past records. Pakistan has the easiest schedule this cycle and they're expected to win nearly all their away fixtures. Unless Pakistan mess up badly, I can't see how Pakistan doesn't make the final of the WTC in 2023.

So in summary, looking at the fixtures, I would rank the difficulty of fixtures for each team as (from easiest to toughest):

Pak > Ind > Eng > Aus > NZ > SA.

Cricket is a funny game and anything can happen out of normalcy. But if everything goes according to normal expectations, there is a very high chance that India and Pakistan might square up against each other in the final of the next WTC in 2023.

Your thoughts?
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Good Anaylysis.
India, Australia and Pakistan are favorites to reach into finals.
Final match depends on venue and playing conditions.
 
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Pakistan have no excuses for the next WTC. Most fans believe that Pak can easily beat all the SENA teams at home and the away series are against lower ranked sides. Cant get easier than this. India wont naje the next final unless we find some highly skilled younger players. Looks unlikely.
 
If Pakistan can beat Australia, England and New Zealand on Pakistani pitches, it will deserve to be play the WTC Final. They will get smoked by India but qualifying for the final would be an honor itself.

However, I don’t see it happening because Pakistan’s performance against South Africa showed that they are mediocre team even in home conditions.

It was Pakistan’s good fortune that South Africa were woefully underprepared and led by a captain who had no interest or desire to lead the team.

This Pakistan team is woefully short on talent, skill and mental application. If the likes of Australia, England and New Zealand arrive with proper preparation, they should be able to beat Pakistan.
 
Mamoon said:
If Pakistan can beat Australia, England and New Zealand on Pakistani pitches, it will deserve to be play the WTC Final. They will get smoked by India but qualifying for the final would be an honor itself.

However, I don’t see it happening because Pakistan’s performance against South Africa showed that they are mediocre team even in home conditions.

It was Pakistan’s good fortune that South Africa were woefully underprepared and led by a captain who had no interest or desire to lead the team.

This Pakistan team is woefully short on talent, skill and mental application. If the likes of Australia, England and New Zealand arrive with proper preparation, they should be able to beat Pakistan.
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Agreed, the Pindi pitch was an example of how poorly we planned against South Africa.

If Pakistan can prepare the correct spinning tracks to remove the threat of NZ, ENG, and AUS pacers, that's the only way we can win. Australian batting against spin is questionable, so is England's and New Zealand's.

Pindi shouldn't be used as a test venue against these teams, NSK and perhaps Multan would be better venues depending on the time of year.

If Pakistan manage to get to the WTC Final, it will be a good sign, but they will have to work hard to get there.
 
So do we feel that this is a possibility?
 
Mamoon said:
If Pakistan can beat Australia, England and New Zealand on Pakistani pitches, it will deserve to be play the WTC Final. They will get smoked by India but qualifying for the final would be an honor itself.

However, I don’t see it happening because Pakistan’s performance against South Africa showed that they are mediocre team even in home conditions.

It was Pakistan’s good fortune that South Africa were woefully underprepared and led by a captain who had no interest or desire to lead the team.

This Pakistan team is woefully short on talent, skill and mental application. If the likes of Australia, England and New Zealand arrive with proper preparation, they should be able to beat Pakistan.
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Pakistan shall beat Australia, England and NZ on home soil. These 3 teams are pathetic in the subcontinent. Even BD beat Aus and Eng. They are also short of versatile players capable of playing in all conditions. I don't see any team barring India who can dominate overall in any condition.
 
street cricketer said:
So I was just randomly scrolling through my twitter feed when I came across this picture:

View attachment 107844

The above picture shows the fixtures for the next cycle of World Test Championship. If we're being honest, theoretically these sides are the contenders for the next WTC final spots - Ind, Aus, Eng, NZ, SA and Pak.

So looking at the respective fixtures for each team, they stack up as follows. I will classify the fixtures of each team into "Difficult series" (series that the team is expected to lose potentially) and series that the team is expected to win.

India -

Difficult series - England away.

All the other series they're expected to win. Australia at home might be tricky because Aus will be battle hardened after their tours to Sri Lanka and Pakistan, but I would still expect India to prevail. South Africa away is also a tricky fixture. But India ran close a very strong South African side in their home when AB de Villiers proved to be the difference in the end. But since then, South Africa have lost AB, Amla, Faf, Philander, Steyn and Morkel. So theoretically India should not have much problems if they play to their potential.

Australia -

Difficult series - Pakistan and India away. Sri Lanka away potentially.

Australia should win the Ashes and dispose off a weak South African side at home. But this time, Australia are going to face trial by spin away from home. Probably the most difficult away fixtures for a team in terms of familiarity in conditions, it's not inconceivable to think that Australia might lose all three series, although I think Aus will win in Sri Lanka.

England -

Difficult series - Australia and Pakistan away.

India and NZ might prove tricky at home. And they have to face Australia in the Ashes away and Pakistan in Pakistan. So technically a pretty difficult schedule for England this cycle.

New Zealand -

Difficult series - England, India and Pakistan away.

New Zealand arguably had the easiest of fixtures this cycle but their schedule for the next cycle is not so forgiving. Pretty much all three of their away fixtures are difficult series for them and even though NZ have had a good record vs Pakistan in the UAE, facing them in Pakistan might be a different kettle of fish. So a very hard schedule for the Kiwis next cycle.

South Africa -

Difficult series - NZ, England and Australia away. India at home potentially.

India at home might prove to be a difficult series for a weakened South African side. And all of their away fixtures seem to be too big a mountain for the inexperienced Saffer side to scale. Don't see them making the final and this cycle is going to be a rebuilding phase for them.

Pakistan -

Difficult series - None.

All their home fixtures might prove to be tricky, but ones they're expected to win nonetheless going by past records. Pakistan has the easiest schedule this cycle and they're expected to win nearly all their away fixtures. Unless Pakistan mess up badly, I can't see how Pakistan doesn't make the final of the WTC in 2023.

So in summary, looking at the fixtures, I would rank the difficulty of fixtures for each team as (from easiest to toughest):

Pak > Ind > Eng > Aus > NZ > SA.

Cricket is a funny game and anything can happen out of normalcy. But if everything goes according to normal expectations, there is a very high chance that India and Pakistan might square up against each other in the final of the next WTC in 2023.

Your thoughts?
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The WI series could be washed out and that could prove a real game changer for Pak's rankings and affect them negatively. When is the SL/Bang series being played? If its during yet another rainy season then guess what...Pakistan not getting to the WTC final.
 
mastimasti said:
The WI series could be washed out and that could prove a real game changer for Pak's rankings and affect them negatively. When is the SL/Bang series being played? If its during yet another rainy season then guess what...Pakistan not getting to the WTC final.
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Thankfully no washout in the first. Though Pakistan still got affected negatively. Thoughts on 2nd match and whether a washout might affect pakistan negatively?
 
AMSS said:
Thankfully no washout in the first. Though Pakistan still got affected negatively. Thoughts on 2nd match and whether a washout might affect pakistan negatively?
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It rained plenty but luckily not a wash out. In the end we received a great test match ,did you watch it?
 
Keep dreaming, Pakistan cannot beat a mediocre team like the West Indies, Do you honestly expect them to compete against the high quality teams like England, India, Australia and even New Zealand?
 
Lol Pakistan doesn't even deserve to play with a great side like India. Pakistan is losing to WI while India is winning in England. It's a complete mismatch.

Pakistan is only fit to play against SL , WI , Bangaldesh and Zimbabwe.
 
Inswinging Yorker said:
Keep dreaming, Pakistan cannot beat a mediocre team like the West Indies, Do you honestly expect them to compete against the high quality teams like England, India, Australia and even New Zealand?
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Why "even" New Zealand? They were the WTC champions after all.

And unlike Australia or England, have actually defeated Pakistan in the UAE.
 
Rafa said:
Lol Pakistan doesn't even deserve to play with a great side like India. Pakistan is losing to WI while India is winning in England. It's a complete mismatch.

Pakistan is only fit to play against SL , WI , Bangaldesh and Zimbabwe.
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England are not a great team thier average at best
 
The Pakistan Test side is mediocre at best.

It's sad how the team has declined with only 3 or 4 genuine world-class talents with the rest making up the numbers.

WTC final? Highly unlikely.
 
shamaan said:
England are not a great team thier average at best
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They aren't great but they aren't average either. They're just being made to look bad by teams that are stronger than them. This same team will beat the living daylights out of all teams not named India and New Zealand. And maybe arguably Australia too..
 
Mesozoic said:
They aren't great but they aren't average either. They're just being made to look bad by teams that are stronger than them. This same team will beat the living daylights out of all teams not named India and New Zealand. And maybe arguably Australia too..
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I think Pakistan would beat England in Pakistan, but England would win in English conditions. Don't know about "wiping the floor".
 
It’s possible only if India manages to reach the WC Test cricket final.

Couple years down the road and their main bowlers will be either out or out of form, and something same may happen to their batting line.
 
Just stop this. We need to find a way to have an overhaul in strategy, management, thinking than dream of competing in the WTC.

The WTC is not something you can win if you have a few good days. It requires consistency, planning, strategy. Not the current mentality of “let’s do enough so he have enough excuses in the bank so we won’t be ripped to shreds by the media”

I am embarrassed at the current state of Pak cricket. It’s not just the results, it’s just such a cowardly, uninspiring and insipid team with zero ambition.
 
harsh but you need to start beating teams like WI more comfortably to dream of WTC final spot
 
Mesozoic said:
They aren't great but they aren't average either. They're just being made to look bad by teams that are stronger than them. This same team will beat the living daylights out of all teams not named India and New Zealand. And maybe arguably Australia too..
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They are a mid table team which is about is average.
 
shamaan said:
They are a mid table team which is about is average.
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They were easily the 2nd best team in the last WTC cycle with 2 away series wins in South Africa and Sri Lanka. They competed better than most in India as well by winning a Test. They were extremely unlucky to miss out on the final spot with those washouts against Pakistan at home and with NZ dodging the tours of SAF and Ban.

They won't suddenly become "average" just because India are doing well against them.
 
HappyWarsFan said:
I think Pakistan would beat England in Pakistan, but England would win in English conditions. Don't know about "wiping the floor".
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Yeah sorry should have added "in England". Of course Pakistan should and would win at home.
 
Mesozoic said:
They were easily the 2nd best team in the last WTC cycle with 2 away series wins in South Africa and Sri Lanka. They competed better than most in India as well by winning a Test. They were extremely unlucky to miss out on the final spot with those washouts against Pakistan at home and with NZ dodging the tours of SAF and Ban.

They won't suddenly become "average" just because India are doing well against them.
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England Lost to New Zealand and England and they would loose against Australia home and away currently.they are a level below India,Australia and New Zealand.Sri Lanka are a poor team.
 
I know it's very early, but Shaheen might have just kept Pakistan's hopes of making the WTC final alive singlehandedly with his bowling this match.
 
WTC-TABLE-_24AUG.png
 
Should have beat WI 2-0 and that could effect pakistans chances now down the road.
 
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